First Take: Kobe vs Duncan, Who Had the Better Career?

[BillMc]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:11096807

Predictably, Skip takes Duncan.

SA takes Kobe, and his premise is basically Kobe had "less stability and achieves the same number of rings." What Smith seems to forget is a lot of that instability Kobe brought on himself. He's the one who fought with Shaq and at times PJ. He's the one that shot them out of the series against the Pistons. He's the one with the rape case that was a huge distraction. Strange to praise Kobe for "overcoming" what he himself made.

Amusingly, Smith even admits if judged "only on results" Duncan is marginally better. I guess "style points" matter to Smith

[Cry Havoc]

Yep. Took the words out of my mouth, Bill. Basically Skip is saying Kobe is better because he's a drama queen. :lol

[dbreiden83080]

Kobe is better than Duncan because he overcame drama that he largely created himself..

Uh huh...

[Gervin44Silas13]

he forced Shaq out and fucked up a dynasty.......
Duncan via Pop re tooled the dynasty

[024]

:cry kobe is such a warrior, he's going to carry a team with limited cap space




.......oh wait that's because he sitting on $25 million worth of cap space

[Fireball]

Duncan ist the better person ... thats more important

[703 Spurz]

Silly discussion. Who cares who had the "better" career? Both have won titles and are HOFs.

[Horse]

This really isnt as close as people think. I mean c'mon even at 38 TD is still as valuble if not more valuble than any other Spur. And the biggest point is kobe was the 2nd fiddle on atleast 2 and the most you can say about the 3rd is he was equally valuble. There was no downtime with Timmy and that's the most amazing part of it.

[Old School 44]

Stephen A. picks "Kobe is better than Duncan", because it's a point-counter-point show. First Take is just two trolls going at it live.

[313]

Stephen A. picks "Kobe is better than Duncan", because it's a point-counter-point show. First Take is just two trolls going at it live.

[baseline bum]

:lol at SAS saying Kobe never had Pop

:cry He only had Phil Jackson

[BillMc]

:cry kobe is such a warrior, he's going to carry a team with limited cap space




.......oh wait that's because he sitting on $25 million worth of cap space

Yes, will Kobe "overcome" the adversity of his contract eating up the entire budget? Tune in next season folks...:lol

[Mr Bones]

If Duncan and Kobe were on teams that spent the same amount of money on salaries every year, I think Duncan would have more rings.... Right now they are tied, but that's over the course of over a dozen years where Kobe's team had many many millions of additional dollars to spend. That's the part of equation that is not discussed enough.

[cjw]

But Kobe makes twice as much as Duncan next year. He has to be twice as good!

[spurspokesman]

To us Spurs fans it's Duncan by a country mile. And our spurs have just won something LA or Kobe wont be seeing for a while.

[Thomas82]

This shouldn't even be a debate.

[I need 5]

Exactly. Tim Duncan was the best player and anchor on all 5 championships.

[AFBlue]

It's a debate show on an entertainment network that uses hyperbole-driven arguments from sensationalist caricatures to generate ratings. Expecting anything rational from either side is setting yourself up for unmet expectations.

[AFBlue]

Btw, of course it's Duncan. Kobe is one of the most dynamic scorers and competitors of the post-Jordan era, but Duncan's consistent all-NBA production as the anchor of a team and his standing as the greatest at his position of all time cement the argument in his favor.

[poop]

If duncan played his whole career for the LA Lakers he would probably have won 8. Lets not even pretend that its a fair comparison. The league never lets LA go more than a few years at a time without being a title contender. They have tons of advantages the san antonio spurs never had or ever will have. If not for that ridiculous Gasol 'trade' in '08, which could not have happened to any other team, Kobe would still be at the 3 he won with prime shaq.
Consider this...all the titles kobe won, he was paired with the leagues most dominant front court on every one.

[phyzik]

If you had a chance to build a team around a player, who would you choose?

Bold shows dominant person regardless of position and team mates.... Just based on stats, who do you chose as your foundation?

Player A:

Games: 1254
Minutes: 43605
PER: 24.6
TS%: .551
eFG%: .507
FTr: .421
3PAr: .008
ORB%: 9.8
DRB%: 26.6
TRB%: 18.5
AST%: 16.4
STL%: 1.1
BLK%: 4.6
TOV%: 12.3
USG%: 27.6
ORtg: 110
DRtg: 95
OWS: 93.5
DWS: 98.1
WS: 191.6
WS/48: .211

VS

Player B:

Games: 1245
Minutes: 45567
PER: 23.4
TS%: .555
eFG%: .487
FTr: .389
3PAr: .201
ORB%: 3.6
DRB%: 12.6
TRB%: 8.2
AST%: 24.3
STL%: 2.1
BLK%: 1.0
TOV%: 11.6
USG%: 31.8
ORtg: 111
DRtg: 105
OWS: 123.4
DWS: 49.6
WS: 173.0
WS/48: .182

Player A has more games played, with less minutes and with a greater PER, Rebounds like a monster on both ends of the floor and overall is better per 48 minutes but needs more rest....

Player B is good at 3 pointers, has a higher turnover rate, a much higher usage rate, but is really good in the offensive and defensive ratings but totally blows at rebounds on either end of the floor....

Who is your center piece?

[jARS mEsH sEt]

If you had a chance to build a team around a player, who would you choose?

Bold shows dominant person regardless of position and team mates.... Just based on stats, who do you chose as your foundation?

Player A:

Games: 1254
Minutes: 43605
PER: 24.6
TS%: .551
eFG%: .507
FTr: .421
3PAr: .008
ORB%: 9.8
DRB%: 26.6
TRB%: 18.5
AST%: 16.4
STL%: 1.1
BLK%: 4.6
TOV%: 12.3
USG%: 27.6
ORtg: 110
DRtg: 95
OWS: 93.5
DWS: 98.1
WS: 191.6
WS/48: .211

VS

Player B:

Games: 1245
Minutes: 45567
PER: 23.4
TS%: .555
eFG%: .487
FTr: .389
3PAr: .201
ORB%: 3.6
DRB%: 12.6
TRB%: 8.2
AST%: 24.3
STL%: 2.1
BLK%: 1.0
TOV%: 11.6
USG%: 31.8
ORtg: 111
DRtg: 105
OWS: 123.4
DWS: 49.6
WS: 173.0
WS/48: .182

Player A has more games played, with less minutes and with a greater PER, Rebounds like a monster on both ends of the floor and overall is better per 48 minutes....

Player B is good at 3 pointers, has a higher turnover rate, a much higher usage rate, but is really good in the offensive and defensive ratings.....

The lower the DRtg the better. You bolded the wrong one.

[phyzik]

The lower the DRtg the better. You bolded the wrong one.

Thanks, fixed. Missed that, was kind of in a hurry.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Really you should just combine ORtg and DRtg into one stat by citing net differential (ORtg - DRtg) :lmao

Kirby gets an extra, unwarranted bold by having a 1 point ORtg advantage on Duncan even though Duncan's defense is miles ahead.

[DJR210]

They say it like their careers are both over. Wouldn't be surprised if Tim gets another ring before it's said and done, versus I can't even see why Kobe is still playing..

[Emperor]

Kobe jealous of Duncan, Durant jealous of Kawhi. They oughta get used to it.

[MarioSpeedwagon]

If duncan played his whole career for the LA Lakers he would probably have won 8. Lets not even pretend that its a fair comparison. The league never lets LA go more than a few years at a time without being a title contender. They have tons of advantages the san antonio spurs never had or ever will have. If not for that ridiculous Gasol 'trade' in '08, which could not have happened to any other team, Kobe would still be at the 3 he won with prime shaq.
Consider this...all the titles kobe won, he was paired with the leagues most dominant front court on every one.
Imagine a Duncan shaq frontcourt from 97 through about 2004. Omg game over for the rest of the league

[spursparker9]

Imagine a Duncan shaq frontcourt from 97 through about 2004. Omg game over for the rest of the league

this

[xmas1997]

Kobe jealous of Duncan, Durant jealous of Kawhi. They oughta get used to it.

:lol
And the whole league is jealous of the Spurs.

[kobe4life]

You guys are so stupid I have more basketball knowledge than all you guys considering that I have been watching the game since 1980. I have seen a lot of great players but outside of Jordan, God is the greatest baller of all time. Stats back up my point. Deal with it spurfans God>Duncan.

[TampaDude]

You guys are so stupid I have more basketball knowledge than all you guys considering that I have been watching the game since 1980. I have seen a lot of great players but outside of Jordan, God is the greatest baller of all time. Stats back up my point. Deal with it spurfans God>Duncan.

There is no God. There is only Timmy.

[Cry Havoc]

There is no God. There is only Pop.

And Duncan is his prophet!

[Jimcs50]

Kobe’s résumé: 5-2 in the Finals; 15 All-Star Games; one MVP; two Finals MVPs; 11 first-team All-NBA’s; two second-team All-NBA’s; 13 seasons with a winning percentage over .600; two missed postseasons; only one of six players to score 30,000 points; 25.5 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.8 APG, 45.4% FG, 23.4 PER, 173 win shares (reg. season); 25.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 44.8% FG, 22.4 PER, 28.3 WS (playoffs). Fantastic? Absolutely. But unless he reinvents his career these last two or three years, he can’t pass Duncan and The Guy You Should Have Picked.

Duncan’s résumé: 17 seasons; 5-1 in the Finals; won titles 15 years apart; 14 All-Star Games; back-to-back MVPs; three Finals MVPs; Rookie of the Year; 10 first-team All-NBA’s; three second-team All-NBA’s; never had a winning percentage below .600; never missed the playoffs; 19.9 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 2.2 BPG, 50.6% FG, 24.6 PER, 191.6 WS (reg. season); 21.3 PPG, 11.7 RPG, 2.3 BPG, 50% FG, 24.6 PER, 36.2 WS (playoffs). The best player of the post-MJ generation — it’s true.

[Seventyniner]

fwiw Simmons ranks Duncan's career right now as the second-best of all time behind Kareem. He does point out that "better career" doesn't mean "better player" too. In other words, longevity counts.

[Jimcs50]

fwiw Simmons ranks Duncan's career right now as the second-best of all time behind Kareem. He does point out that "better career" doesn't mean "better player" too. In other words, longevity counts.

In sex as well.

[Thomas82]

Btw, of course it's Duncan. Kobe is one of the most dynamic scorers and competitors of the post-Jordan era, but Duncan's consistent all-NBA production as the anchor of a team and his standing as the greatest at his position of all time cement the argument in his favor.


If duncan played his whole career for the LA Lakers he would probably have won 8. Lets not even pretend that its a fair comparison. The league never lets LA go more than a few years at a time without being a title contender. They have tons of advantages the san antonio spurs never had or ever will have. If not for that ridiculous Gasol 'trade' in '08, which could not have happened to any other team, Kobe would still be at the 3 he won with prime shaq.
Consider this...all the titles kobe won, he was paired with the leagues most dominant front court on every one.


They say it like their careers are both over. Wouldn't be surprised if Tim gets another ring before it's said and done, versus I can't even see why Kobe is still playing..


Kobe jealous of Duncan, Durant jealous of Kawhi. They oughta get used to it.