Patty Mills: Best back-up PG in the Parker Era?

[100%duncan]

If not, who?

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

RMJ is obviously #1

[will_spurs]

The thing is, Patty isn't the back-up PG, he's the back-up SG. Manu is the back-up PG, and obviously the best in the Parker era.

[Uriel]

Patty Mills is the best backup PG caliber player in the Parker era, but George Hill was technically Parker's backup at one time, and he's starting caliber.

[100%duncan]

Patty Mills is the best backup PG caliber player in the Parker era, but George Hill was technically Parker's backup at one time, and he's starting caliber.

Patty is starting caliber too, he's just on the same team as Tony Parker.

Patty>Hill imho.

[spursparker9]

1-on-1 wise, Hill > Patty

But Patty is more valuable to the Spurs due to his ability to get hot and knock down consecutive 3s.

[100%duncan]

1-on-1 wise, Hill > Patty

But Patty is more valuable to the Spurs due to his ability to get hot and knock down consecutive 3s.

Patty is quicker, a better shooter, and a very underrated defender. Not sure who'd win 1v1. Though to talk about it is moot.

[TE]

Mills isn't a traditional point guard but in this system (and with the second rotation) it doesn't really matter. If he's on, it's poison for the other team.

[hsxvvd]

George Hill by a small margin in terms of back up. But Patty is a far greater game changer of the bench.

[Dizzle]

patty BY FAR best backup PG... hill was nowhere near as dynamic.. in fact theres NOTHING george hill does better than patty

[AFBlue]

Short memory for some Spurs fans. George Hill was a more dynamic two-way player than Patty. His length, athleticism and defensive abilities were unmatched on that Spurs squad. He shot a very solid % from the field and could put pressure on the D by driving to the rim. His biggest issue was being consistently aggressive, which is where Patty has the advantage. But George was a better all-around player and meant more to the team success than Patty. He just had less around him.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Best backup to Parker was, is and will always be Manu Ginobili.

Patty Mills hardly called or ran plays as a PG. He was an off-the-bench shooting option and has been fantastic at it.

[100%duncan]

Short memory for some Spurs fans. George Hill was a more dynamic two-way player than Patty. His length, athleticism and defensive abilities were unmatched on that Spurs squad. He shot a very solid % from the field and could put pressure on the D by driving to the rim. His biggest issue was being consistently aggressive, which is where Patty has the advantage. But George was a better all-around player and meant more to the team success than Patty. He just had less around him.

Nice job on underrating Patty on D while overrating GHill as per par here on the board. I was one of the biggest Ghill fanboys when he was here but he's not on Patty's caliber. Remember when we were so frustrated because George's balls would shrivel on the road? Patty Mills in games 3 and 4 sure didn't.

[Dizzle]

george hill cares more about his pretty face and image... patty HAS BALLS OF STEEL and is 10x the shooter hill was... hill got no handles and a BROKE J

[Bender]

I was getting to like the guy we had briefly years ago... forgot who it was... a veteran... had to retire because he had back trouble

[Twisted_Dawg]

No love for Speedy Claxton??? He bailed out Parker in the 2003 Finals. Probably had the best point guard skills of any backup we've had. Truth be known, he had far better passing skills than Parker ever had.

[baseline bum]

Short memory for some Spurs fans. George Hill was a more dynamic two-way player than Patty. His length, athleticism and defensive abilities were unmatched on that Spurs squad. He shot a very solid % from the field and could put pressure on the D by driving to the rim. His biggest issue was being consistently aggressive, which is where Patty has the advantage. But George was a better all-around player and meant more to the team success than Patty. He just had less around him.

Hill's biggest issue is that he was one of the worst guards in the league defending the pick and roll and fighting over screens. His defense was so ridiculously overrated here. He could lock down isoball players like Kobe, but the Spurs might as well have had Shaq as soon as someone set a screen. Watching him get absolutely destroyed by Nash in 2010 was painful and starting him over Parker that series was such a colossal mistake. What an albatross he'd be on the Spurs' cap had they paid him market value. Give me Patty any day.

[spursparker9]

One of the small thing that Patty impressed me is that he literally sprint to help up his teammates when they fell to the ground.

Never ever seen a player doing such a gesture. I believe that truly spread a positive energy among the team.

[100%duncan]

Oh and yes forgot how bad Hill was on pnr D.
Bender TJ ford. Yes he was good in his games here. Sad ending imo.

[jag]

george hill cares more about his pretty face and image... patty HAS BALLS OF STEEL and is 10x the shooter hill was... hill got no handles and a BROKE J

:lol what?? In Hill's best year (09-10) with the Spurs he shot 40% 3PT with an overall FG% of 48%. This past year Patty shot 43% 3PT and 46% FG.

Hill certainly had his weaknesses, but he worked his ass off. Hill spent the majority of the time out of position defending players 4-6 inches taller. Neither Patty nor Hill can truly run the offense as a PG. The offense that George Hill was asked to run was much more reliant on the PG to initiate the sets and create open shots. The current offense is extremely less PG reliant, especially with Boris on the floor.

Every (non-garbage time) lineup the Spurs used had Patty on the floor with either Parker or Ginobili (mostly Ginobili) along with Belli and Diaw. There are usually 3-4 good passers/ball handlers on the floor with Patty to keep the ball moving. They tried to do the same with Hill, but there were still many times when the regular rotation consisted of Hill-Bogans-Jefferson-McDyess-Duncan. The Spurs most commonly used lineup in 09-10 was Hill-Ginobili-Jefferson-McDyess-Duncan. Imagine Patty in a stagnant offense trying to penetrate and create shots for Bogans, Jefferson and McDyess.

The Pacers offense was ranked 22nd in Offensive Efficiency and 20th in Pace. It was a slow motion abortion run in a continuous loop. It was basically setup to play off all of Hill's weaknesses.

Patty would probably look like a selfish, inefficient chucker in Indiana’s offense. And I think Hill would look like a completely different, productive player in the Spurs current offense.

[mavsfan1000]

Patty Mills is the Spurs Steve Kerr. Great shooters are underrated. They allow optimal spacing which makes it very hard to double team anyone. The Spurs know exactly how to break down a double team as Patty Mills will make you pay.

[baseline bum]

The thought of George Hill defending Ray Allen is pretty damn frightening

[100%duncan]

The thought of George Hill defending Ray Allen is pretty damn frightening

All those screens run for Allen in the corner... Damn. Amazing to see that Patty was the only one who could keep up with that.

[MaineSpursFan]

I voted for TJ Ford, I was really impressed by his passing skills during the very short time before his unfortunate forced retirement, I was very excited to see what he could do. I'm still saddened that he got injured.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Best backup to Parker was, is and will always be Manu Ginobili.

Patty Mills hardly called or ran plays as a PG. He was an off-the-bench shooting option and has been fantastic at it.

Agreed!

1) Manu Ginobili
2) TJ Ford
3) Patty Mills
4) Speedy Claxton
5a)Jacque Vaughn
5b) Nick Van Exel
5c) Beno Udrih
6) George Hill
7) Antonio Daniels
8) Gary Neal
9) Corey Joseph
10) Nando De Colo



Hart, anyone else crack the top ten during Parker Era? Man, have we had shit at that position even before Parker as well. Previous ten years? 1) Strickland 2) Johnson?

I wouldn't have issues interchanging some for various reasons. I rank them on point skills while playing with us. George Hill (like Antonio Daniels) is not a point guard. It's not his fault, but he's difficult to utilize and put in a list like this. He couldn't handle the ball well when he was here, and his lack of ball-handling ability helped facilitate Indiana's exit. I was a fan, but when you lack the most salient quality of a point guard, you can't be listed very high in a best of point guard list, even for back-ups. Gary Neal may even rank, if Hill is a point guard so is Gary (he played some backup point for us, poorly, like Hill). Gary could change a game in a heartbeat (not with point guard skills), whereas George was a good defender, more athletic, better on fast breaks, better handles than Gary, at least. AFBlue is right about Hill's positive attributes. Sean ****** fits AFBlue's description of Hill, pretty well, too. Sean was no point guard. Hill was a combo guard. He ran the point, was serviceable. At point, that was it. The glass was a little bit on the half-empty side in both positions, but he was more suited as a two. He had flashes of brilliance that you recall, but rarely, if ever, as a point guard. Maybe I'm beating a dead horse.

Speedy Claxton won us a championship when Tony was young and faltered. Not shooting the three, but running the offense like a boss for those critical games. Maybe Patty should be lower because he is in two guard grey area as well, with Hill. But, Patty's ball-handling has been good enough I give him the nod as a legitimate point, grading on continued future improvement, but I am sure there will be a lot of argument there.

TJ was simply fantastic in that role in his limited time. What a great pick-up and horrible loss. He fit in seamlessly.

Everything out of the top four were band-aids, stop-gaps or failed/on-going projects.

After reading the rest of the thread, happy to see all the appreciation for Ford.

[TheGreatYacht]

Mills > Hill

its not even close

Mills took over games by himself dropping 30. Hill helped the Spurs get swept by Phoenix

[Dizzle]

george hill is a big reason pacers will never win a ring... if the pacers had rondo or tony parker theyd be repeating now

[doobs]

I remember being upset when the Spurs traded Hill for some dude from SDSU.

[Leetonidas]

TJ Ford would've been the best if he hadn't been forced to retire. We started to see glimpses of his passing abilities with the second unit before he went down and it was amazing to have that from a backup PG. Too bad how it ended for him, he'd be sick off the bench with this Spurs team imho

[Raven]

Actually aside of the miami series he was fairly underwhelming.

[Raven]

TJ Ford would've been the best if he hadn't been forced to retire. We started to see glimpses of his passing abilities with the second unit before he went down and it was amazing to have that from a backup PG. Too bad how it ended for him, he'd be sick off the bench with this Spurs team imho

I dont agree, ive always considerd him a defensive cancer and a loser...

[Leetonidas]

He played for shit teams most of his career. He was never a #1 option and a make or break guy so to call him a loser is rather unfair tbqh

[Cry Havoc]

It baffles me that people think Neal was a PG. He was not a good ball handler.

[littlecoyotecoin]

It baffles me that people think Neal was a PG. He was not a good ball handler.

Yes. He was horrible. It was a shame he got so many minutes as a backup PG. Painful to watch. Especially in a league where guards are supposedly commonplace. Not point gaurds. Not in San Antonio.

[TheyCallMePro]

Patty is the best and my personal favorite. But I loved Gary Neal. He would take tough shots for us and make them. Remember his bank shot 3 in game 7 last year? And his game-tying, buzzer-beating 3 against Memphis in 2011 to keep us alive in that series? Gary wasn't as fast or tenacious on D as Patty, but he could create for himself more beyond the arc. He chucked it more, but he was great.

[Baam]

GHill was the best and Gary the most clutch and the most exciting to watch.

[mandel17]

Patty's Game 5 heroics reminded of me of when Steve Kerr went ballistic in the 2003 WCF Game 6. I give Patty the nod as best back-up PG in the Parker era - just slightly ahead of Shane Heal (2003-04).

[littlecoyotecoin]

Patty is the best and my personal favorite. But I loved Gary Neal. He would take tough shots for us and make them. Remember his bank shot 3 in game 7 last year? And his game-tying, buzzer-beating 3 against Memphis in 2011 to keep us alive in that series? Gary wasn't as fast or tenacious on D as Patty, but he could create for himself more beyond the arc. He chucked it more, but he was great.

That sort of proves the point. He had to create for himself, beyond the arc, because he couldn't dribble pentrate or create for anyone else inside the arc, because he isn't a point guard and was bad at running the point. As opposed to Ginobili who is good at all of those things, as well as a good shooter beyond the arc, even though he doesn't normally play the point.

[tmtcsc]

The best true PG we had in the TP era was Beno Udrih. Not sure what got him in the dog house but I always thought he was pretty good. Too much partying? Not enough focus or determination?

[100%duncan]

bump...

A lot of people overrate Neal for his heroics imho, and I must say I am guilty of doing it before, but with what Patty has done this year esp in OKC and Miami how can you even consider Neal to be better than him.
tmtcsc Udrih will forever be a scrub. He was so soft and looked lost everytime he was on the court.

[therealtruth]

Hill's biggest issue is that he was one of the worst guards in the league defending the pick and roll and fighting over screens. His defense was so ridiculously overrated here. He could lock down isoball players like Kobe, but the Spurs might as well have had Shaq as soon as someone set a screen. Watching him get absolutely destroyed by Nash in 2010 was painful and starting him over Parker that series was such a colossal mistake. What an albatross he'd be on the Spurs' cap had they paid him market value. Give me Patty any day.

Good point. I believe we lost that '10 series in the first 5 minutes because of Nash abusing George Hill.

[therealtruth]

Patty Claxton. Still bailing out TP in '14.

[rmt]

The best true PG we had in the TP era was Beno Udrih. Not sure what got him in the dog house but I always thought he was pretty good. Too much partying? Not enough focus or determination?

Beno couldn't bring the ball up the court vs Pistons in 05. Pop felt the series turned when Parker sat to rest and Pistons pressured Beno.

[Tuddy]

The balls in Ginobili's hands mostly in the halfcourt so id call him a SG

[spursparker9]

Beno was good until he met Lindsy Hunter.

[Texas_Ranger]

Best backup playmakers since 2003 were Beno and TJ Ford. They both knew how to pass the ball. The 2005 Pistons did destroy Beno, but he was just a rookie playing agains the best defensive team in the league but even Parker was benched for Claxton in 03 agains a not really that good Nets defenders.

[xmas1997]

Speedy Claxton for sure.

[carina_gino20]

Hill's biggest issue is that he was one of the worst guards in the league defending the pick and roll and fighting over screens. His defense was so ridiculously overrated here. He could lock down isoball players like Kobe, but the Spurs might as well have had Shaq as soon as someone set a screen. Watching him get absolutely destroyed by Nash in 2010 was painful and starting him over Parker that series was such a colossal mistake. What an albatross he'd be on the Spurs' cap had they paid him market value. Give me Patty any day.

I still remember the frustration of watching Hill 'fight' those screens. You just knew what was going to happen next.

[100%duncan]

It's frustrating how people underrate Patty's defense tbh :lol If you look closely on games against Miami, Mills was constantly put by Pop on Allen because DG had to check Wade and Kawhi had to guard Lebron therefore leaving Mills the only guy who has the speed and peskiness to run through the screens done for Allen. There were even times where Mills was put on to Bron because of switches and Lebron couldn't even drive it past him.

[tmtcsc]

bump...

A lot of people overrate Neal for his heroics imho, and I must say I am guilty of doing it before, but with what Patty has done this year esp in OKC and Miami how can you even consider Neal to be better than him.
tmtcsc Udrih will forever be a scrub. He was so soft and looked lost everytime he was on the court.

I remember he was fantastic against Phoenix and gave Nash fits. Detroit was a mess but Beno had some terrific games when he had to play major minutes. I think his time away from San Antonio improved his game. He didn't look soft against OKC in this year's playoffs with Memphis. When Conley was down, he took the game to the Thunder and wasn't afraid to take big shots.