First Take "Debates" Who Had a Better Career: Kobe or Duncan

[BanditHiro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmOs-VDrKjw

lol at the narrative Stephen A tries to spin to prove that Kobe > Duncan. Kobetard gonna Kobetard

[jermaine]

SAS has a great argument for Kobe. But his points for kobe is called life. Skip made the best point to say Tim has been the "Rock" on a great team an a great leader". Tim has been coachable an has never quit on his team like kobe! But this will be a great debate until one wins another one. Great convo for Spurs an Lakers fans to act silly over.

[scanry]

SAS has a great argument for Kobe. But his points for kobe is called life. Skip made the best point to say Tim has been the "Rock" on a great team an a great leader". Tim has been coachable an has never quit on his team like kobe! But this will be a great debate until one wins another one. Great convo for Spurs an Lakers fans to act silly over.

Jermaine, there's nothing to argue about. One was THE FRANCHISE and the foundation for over 17 years. The other had to win his starting role over Eddie Jones and also drove away the franchise in the process.

BTW Austin Croshere outplayed him in the 2000 finals. nough said.

[weebo]

Smith forgot to mention that Kobe's championship teams were stacked with great talent. He also forgot to mention that in his first 3 championship teams, coaches were game planning against Shaq. Kobe was just the lesser of two evils and you lived with playing him one on one iso ball.

[Captivus]

$30,453,000
$23,500,000
$25,000,000

[spursparker9]

I understand SAS's point that despite having more adversity, Kobe won 5 titles also.

But you have to look back and see who really cause the adversity? Who was the one that force the Lakers to trade away Shaq?

[TampaDude]

I understand SAS's point that despite having more adversity, Kobe won 5 titles also.

But you have to look back and see who really cause the adversity? Who was the one that force the Lakers to trade away Shaq?

^ this

[spursparker9]

Those so called Adversities are all caused by Kobe himself.

You see Timmy willing to accept that he is not as effective as before and let Tony and Manu to take the lead and carry the Spurs.

Then on the other side, you see Kobe telling Dwight Howard that Howard will not be the first option ever unless Kobe is not around anymore. There was also an interview with Robert Horry during the Finals and people asked him whether he thinks that Kobe makes his teammates better? And just Horry just laughing at the question and after a moment gave an sarcastic reply that Horry himself made everyone around him better.

[spursparker9]

Wtf? Controversy? Turmoil? That bitch created every bit of the fucking turmoil he "overcame."

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/tft.gif

[SupremeGuy]

Tim, even without this past ring, still had a better career than sidekick. SAS just doing and saying SAS things, tbh. He gets paid to have stupid opinions, the sooner you understand that, the sooner you just sit back and laugh at the bullshit coming out of his mouth. lol

[Spursfanfromafar]

These two are such bloody trolls.

Smith says that Kobe had to go through a lot other than Phil Jackson's coaching... but he only won under Jackson and when they had super teams built for him. Whenever he had any other team around him with him as leader, the Lakers were not even a replacement team.

In contrast, Duncan has been much more consistent and won with plenty and little.

[UZER]

Smith is just a blind homer for his "boys". Kobe adversity was self inflicted over and over. And is wasn't like he dealt with is graciously either. He was kicking and screaming like a spoiled brat through all of it.

That's the dumbest argument to use in the Kobe v Duncan debate. That's worse than what some Lakers trolls here come up with.

[Thomas82]

If Tim Duncan get his 6th ring next year, this really won't be a debate.

[Beaverfuzz]

had? Both are still playing one more year at least...it's not over for either.

[superbigtime]

Kobe is one of the most selfish players to ever lace em up. Awesome talent but what a bitch.

[poeticism707]

I understand SAS's point that despite having more adversity, Kobe won 5 titles also.

But you have to look back and see who really cause the adversity? Who was the one that force the Lakers to trade away Shaq?

This.

But good ole' ESPN can't go airing the truth,

can they.

[poeticism707]

Kobe is one of the most selfish players to ever lace em up. Awesome talent but what a bitch.

Agreed.

Kobe became a Top 10 all time talent,

and make no mistake.

And he has Jordan's

"I can put a ball through

a hoop better than you,

so I am a god," syndrome.

Two of the most selfish players ever.

And Jordan might even be worse.

[ElNono]

didn't Kobe retire?

[Darkwaters]

I see this point has been hit repeatedly about Kobe causing his own pain.

Stephen A Smith is a dumbass as per par.

[dbreiden83080]

Tim Duncan is the greatest player of his generation and a top-five player of all-time. In my opinion he and Bill Russell are the two greatest team basketball players ever. I don't give a shit what anybody says that's what I think.

[kobe4life]

Kobe adversity was self inflicted

No it wasn't since Shaq had a strong dislike for God from the beginning. Shaq always made God's life hell in the lockeroom and through the media. God always had to deal with adversity everyday thanks to Shaq,Phil Jackson, and the media. Duncan never had to deal with any of that type of scrutiny.

[Skull-1]

I understand SAS's point that despite having more adversity, Kobe won 5 titles also.

But you have to look back and see who really cause the adversity? Who was the one that force the Lakers to trade away Shaq? Boom. And Duncan never raped anyone best I can tell. Kobe = Moral Scum

[dbreiden83080]

I understand SAS's point that despite having more adversity, Kobe won 5 titles also.

But you have to look back and see who really cause the adversity? Who was the one that force the Lakers to trade away Shaq?

Kobe has 2 chips as the man and 3 with him whining like a little girl over attention..

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe has 2 chips as the man and 3 with him whining like a little girl over attention..

And he still needed Lamar Odom and Ron Artest to hit the clutch shots for him in the two he won without Shaq.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Duncan never raped anyone best I can tell.

The 2003 lakers in game 6 would like a word with you, tbh :lol

[z0sa]

"Had" seems to imply Tim's career is over too.

[dbreiden83080]

And he still needed Lamar Odom and Ron Artest to hit the clutch shots for him in the two he won without Shaq.

None of us are big Jackson fans but he deserves enormous credit for making that work. It's crazy to say that you can have the chance to play with another great player and be unhappy over attention but that was sorely the case for Shaq and Kobe.. Probably only Jackson, Pop and Riley could have made that work with the egos involved..

[Poolboy5623]

I can't even believe there is a debate about this. I could see an argument b4 timmy got 5, but now it's case closed imo.

[admiralsnackbar]

Four questions:

How much of Kobe's tumultuous history was caused by Kobe?

What was the LA payroll compared to SA's during their years of contention?

How many all-starts or HOFers played for the Lakers vs. the Spurs?

Didn't Tim have to play the 3, 4, and 5 (some could argue the 1, as well) just as Kobe had to play the 1, 2 and 3?

[DMC]

So now staying with the team = overcoming hardship.

Got it.

If SAS cannot make a better argument than that, he's already conceded. He'll admit it after Kobe retires and he doesn't need exclusive access any more.

[DMC]

Four questions:

How much of Kobe's tumultuous history was caused by Kobe?

What was the LA payroll compared to SA's during their years of contention?

How many all-starts or HOFers played for the Lakers vs. the Spurs?

Didn't Tim have to play the 3, 4, and 5 (some could argue the 1, as well) just as Kobe had to play the 1, 2 and 3?

How many pay cuts did Kobe take to help the team remain competitive?

Kobe was a rider on a franchise that could have had 8 rings had the relationship been more symbiotic and less parasitic.

[admiralsnackbar]

100% in agreement, although there's a question about how that reflects on him as a player on the court. It affected his team's construction, so it was strategically unwise to be so greedy, but it doesn't directly account for his play/accomplishments, if that makes sense.

[Obstructed_View]

None of us are big Jackson fans but he deserves enormous credit for making that work. It's crazy to say that you can have the chance to play with another great player and be unhappy over attention but that was sorely the case for Shaq and Kobe.. Probably only Jackson, Pop and Riley could have made that work with the egos involved..

I think everyone agrees that Phil Jackson is a great coach, but that has to be mitigated a bit by his opportunities to step into situations where someone else had assembled monster rosters.

But I agree with you. The fact that he could win with Kobe at all is incredible, as Kobe is his own biggest obstacle. If he weren't a ball-hog, a stat-padder, a terrible teammate, didn't cry to the media when things didn't go his way and didn't take every penny available to him, who knows how many titles he could have won?

Pop would have traded Kobe or gone somewhere else. No fucking way he puts up with that shit. He'd rather coach girls' high school basketball than have to deal with that drama.

[UZER]

Stephen A Doesn't even believe his own argument. He's can't be that dumb.

He just has Kobes back because Kobe gave him the exclusives.

[ironman2886]

Stephen A only supports the brothers from big cities.

[dbreiden83080]

I think everyone agrees that Phil Jackson is a great coach, but that has to be mitigated a bit by his opportunities to step into situations where someone else had assembled monster rosters.

But I agree with you. The fact that he could win with Kobe at all is incredible, as Kobe is his own biggest obstacle. If he weren't a ball-hog, a stat-padder, a terrible teammate, didn't cry to the media when things didn't go his way and didn't take every penny available to him, who knows how many titles he could have won?

Pop would have traded Kobe or gone somewhere else. No fucking way he puts up with that shit. He'd rather coach girls' high school basketball than have to deal with that drama.

Well we know how Pop is in SA with the team first approach so the only way Kobe gets along with Pop is if he accepts that type of culture change. I think Pop would make it work after severe headaches for a few seasons but certainly he's had it easy with D-Rob and Timmy as his two biggest stars..

[HI-FI]

Four questions:

How much of Kobe's tumultuous history was caused by Kobe?

What was the LA payroll compared to SA's during their years of contention?

How many all-starts or HOFers played for the Lakers vs. the Spurs?

Didn't Tim have to play the 3, 4, and 5 (some could argue the 1, as well) just as Kobe had to play the 1, 2 and 3?

this.

Kobe bitched his way onto the most entitled team in the league, and got everything his way in regards to loaded rosters, massive payroll etc...It still took a rigged trade and 2002 WCF to get Kobe to five rings. A single, small market championship is more impressive than a large market outspending everyone else and getting favorable officiating. The amount of calls it took for the Lakers to simply get to the playoffs last year shows they get the easy path more often than not.

This debate was finished years ago as far as I'm concerned, but should be dead even amongst casual fans for Duncan tying Rapist in Finals, since casuals only pay attention to that crap.

[Obstructed_View]

Well we know how Pop is in SA with the team first approach so the only way Kobe gets along with Pop is if he accepts that type of culture change. I think Pop would make it work after severe headaches for a few seasons but certainly he's had it easy with D-Rob and Timmy as his two biggest stars..

I can't see it. Kobe ran Phil Jackson out of town the first time, and even their rigged trade for Gasol couldn't have enticed him to swallow his pride without Jeanie Buss as an X factor.