Do Spurs need a major move?

[dbreiden83080]

With all Miami is doing, i ask do they need a major move in the next few weeks to counter some of what Miami has done. I don't think that just resigning Brown will be enough, Miami is suddenly much deeper than the spurs, with Walker, and Finley two near all stars coming off the bench, spurs may need to make a trade to get some more depth, and what are the pacers and pistons doing, why are they letting the heat just load up like this with no response at all?

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have won 2 of the last 3 NBA championships and were arguably 0.4* away from a threepeat.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it, to paraphrase someone.

[Spurminator]

It's far too early to start revamping a Championship team in response to the moves of another team that's not even in our division or conference. If, by midseason, we are clearly on a collision course with Miami for the Finals and it is clear that the matchup favors them, that's the time to think about major moves.

Besides, it all depends on the move. This "we need a major move" stuff is not arguable, because there are no variables. Who would we get? Who would we give up? At wat point does a move qualify as "major"?

[GoSpurs21]

With all Miami is doing, i ask do they need a major move in the next few weeks to counter some of what Miami has done. I don't think that just resigning Brown will be enough, Miami is suddenly much deeper than the spurs, with Walker, and Finley two near all stars coming off the bench, spurs may need to make a trade to get some more depth, and what are the pacers and pistons doing, why are they letting the heat just load up like this with no response at all?what has miami done other than get an overrated turnover happy PG and a overwieght ball hog bench player, while destoying all the chemistry created in the past season. I said it before I think Fins done as a great player. Just look at his dissappearing act in the playoffs last year against the suns. At no time in the careers of these 3 players have they ever turned it up in the playoffs. If you think miami got better you need to pass the shit you're smoking over here

[boutons]

"With all Miami is doing...."

... aka, moving sideways and/or backwards.

"with no response at all"

.... Spurs made their pre-emptive move 23 June. The rest of the league, inclu MIA, is scrambling like hell to respond to 23 June.

The Spurs are in the driver's seat.
EVERYBODY, with a few exceptions, esp in this thread, knows it.
Spurs have their first 9 Championship players back, added Fabricio, and they're effectively done for the off-season.

[dbreiden83080]

Come on you seriously do not think that Miami has gotten a shitload deeper, and i got news for you we are probably losing Devin brown i think someone else will overpay for him in response to not getting Finley.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs will only lose him if someone gives him a deal starting above the MLE.

[Spurminator]

What's the hurry?

Wouldn't it be stupid to shake up a Championship team only to see Shaq's season end in December with a broken toe and Walker demanding to be traded in January after fighting with the coach?

We play the Heat two times this season. There's no rush to answer their moves, especially when we don't know how they will pan out.

Wait and see.

[dbreiden83080]

You guys are acting like the Spurs kicked the hell out of everyone last year, they beat the Pistons in a 7th game that was tied heading into the 4th quarter, you can't just say okay we will make almost no moves and be fine that is being overconfident.

[Rescueone]

Come on you seriously do not think that Miami has gotten a shitload deeper, and i got news for you we are probably losing Devin brown i think someone else will overpay for him in response to not getting Finley.


Yes I agree with you, and that team will be DENVER!!

[boutons]

Jesus FC, WTF do you want them to do? whom to replace, with whom?, on the current championship rotation? with what salary space?

come on, rather than sit there and squeal your silly head off, give us some names and trade deals.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd say replacing TMass with Oberto was a fairly significant move. Also, they have enough cap flexibility and there are enough free agent swingman out there for them to end up with someone solid.

I'm not sure what else they really need to do. They've deepened their bigman rotation and they will shore up their thinnest spot (the 3).

The Spurs have won 2 of the last 3 NBA championships. I don't know about you but I am enjoying this summer.

[GoSpurs21]

the only thing the Spurs need to do is get more years of corporate knowledge for the 06 playoffs. the current chemistry is one of the reasons the Spurs do not need a major move.
Duncan 8 yrs
Bowen and Parker 4 yrs
Ginobili 3 yrs
Horry, Rasho, Brown 2yrs
Berry, Beno 1 yr

lets get the season started already

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs don't need to respond to what Miami is doing. Why break up a proven core of players just because some other team is making a bunch of flashy moves?

[Rick Von Braun]

I'm not sure what else they really need to do. They've deepened their bigman rotation and they will shore up their thinnest spot (the 3).
I agree with you Marcus... I am quite happy with the team. The only reamining hole is getting a long back up SF. If the Spurs get a good 6'8"+ defensive player, they are set.

[Bruno]

It's far too early to start revamping a Championship team in response to the moves of another team that's not even in our division or conference. If, by midseason, we are clearly on a collision course with Miami for the Finals and it is clear that the matchup favors them, that's the time to think about major moves.

Besides, it all depends on the move. This "we need a major move" stuff is not arguable, because there are no variables. Who would we get? Who would we give up? At wat point does a move qualify as "major"?

Tim Duncan for Mike James ?

[Dre_7]

I would still like to see SA get NVE. Any news on him??

[BigVee]

Isn't there any way we can speed up the clock and start the season? All this bullshit flying around in the summer is really starting to wear.....Barry will be better, Parker will be better, Manu will be better, TD will be healthier thereby better, Nazr will be better, Rasho???, Brown will be here and better, Oberto nice addition, Beno should be better, Bowen will be Bowen, and Horry will be Horry....let's go.

[Solid D]

RC and Pop made a move this week. They moved from their beach chairs to go for a swim.

http://www.thefactoryoutlet.com/i/chesapeak/chair_00sm.jpg

[smeagol]

Our move is too have Timmy and Manu rested for the first time in three years.

That, plus Oberto and BigSHot and whatever we get to fill out the end of the bench is more than enough.

[Gummi]

Why is it that some fans shake and almost shit their pants when a title contender makes a move or two? We've seen it happened time and time again that good teams make big moves and add some quality players to their roster. Portland did it in 2000 and that didn't work out as planed. Dallas did it in 2003 and that didn't work out. The Lakers did it on 2004 and it didn't work (well they made the Finals, but they got pretty lucky on the way, we all know that).

Teams can sign quality players but that doesn't mean they'll win the title. If the Spurs re-sign Devin and Glenn, then sign two "nobodies" to fill the roster, we're in business for next season. If Finley goes to Miami as most people predict, then yeah, they'll have a deeper team then they had last year but don't forget what type of a players they got. JWill and Walker need the ball at all times to be effective. Both take horrible shots and play NO D. Posey has been a player that I've always liked but he's had some incidents with his coaches and he'll probably have some with Van Gundy. Finley won't get the playing time that he needs to become really effective IMO. He's a very good player that could help teams like the Bulls or the Nuggets more then the Heat IMO.

Don't fear a team because they make a move or two.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There's a difference between "fearing" a team and recognizing the very real reality that the Spurs have a bullseye on their chest and that some very good teams in the league have made moves to take aim with a larger caliber weapon.

And it's also foolish to act like the Spurs are so great and so much above the rest of the league. They were a Robert Horry going nuclear act away from getting punked by Detroit.

[Spurologist]

Yes. For Tp to stop climbing moutains and start working on his J.

[benjirh]

I think the spurs can repeat, but i am dissapointed with the summer so far. Signing two big men who are both over 30 and possibly resigning a guy who ended the year with back problems may help a little now, but it does nothing for the future. I didn't want to see the whole team reconstructed, but it is time to start drafting and signing young guys to two and three year deals. I am not saying the offseason is shot yet. Spurs brass may have some ideas of who they want and they may get them, but this whole idea of "don't fix it if it isn't broken" can come back and bite you in the butt. Do you know why the yankees have been so good for so many years, it is because they are willing to constanly alter their lineup "IF" it makes them better. Don't restructure the team for the heck of it, but find ways to improve on the weaknesses. Everyone has weaknesses.

[Gummi]

All I'm saying is that we don't have to make any major changes before next season in order to retain the title. A team needs more then just talent. This is the first season where the Spurs are in the position to keep their team intact. No need to change a winning formula.

[SPURS21]

and Finley

when did thye sign finley?

[boutons]

"the yankees have been so good for so many years"

because Steinbrunner spends $200M on payroll and still the Yankess make money.

[spurster]

You need a major move if your players are over the hill. Miami knows they need fresh meat around Shaq. Yet the Spurs oldest starter, Bruce Bowen, was 2nd in Defensive Player of the Year voting. Maybe next offseason, the Spurs will need their future SF, but now there is no playing time.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the spurs can repeat, but i am dissapointed with the summer so far. Signing two big men who are both over 30 and possibly resigning a guy who ended the year with back problems may help a little now, but it does nothing for the future. I didn't want to see the whole team reconstructed, but it is time to start drafting and signing young guys to two and three year deals. I am not saying the offseason is shot yet. Spurs brass may have some ideas of who they want and they may get them, but this whole idea of "don't fix it if it isn't broken" can come back and bite you in the butt. Do you know why the yankees have been so good for so many years, it is because they are willing to constanly alter their lineup "IF" it makes them better. Don't restructure the team for the heck of it, but find ways to improve on the weaknesses. Everyone has weaknesses.


um, the Spurs signed a 30 year old big (oddly enough, who shares my birthday) to replace a 38 year old.

Please don't call him (and me) old.

Thanks,
MB

[Mr. Body]

Simply put, the Spurs cannot get any better from 1-9 than they already are. Every single player in those positions plays a very important role and could not be replaced for equal talent. Plus, there are a number of players who can be expected to be even better next year than they were this year, either in finally having a chance to learn the team's system, in having another year in the league, or regaining confidence. That is, Nazr, Barry, and Udrih I expect to all have better years, with Parker being somewhat of a wild card with how much he can improve.

Don't panic when you look at Miami. They could turn out to be world-beaters like so many are painting them to be, but I see a mismash of players with erratic styles. They have the coaching staff to cobble something together, but they'll still be injury prone and error prone. What it boils down to in a Miami v. San Antonio series is the fact that the two best from each team pretty much equal, in Shaq-Wade versus Duncan-Ginobili. The question then is, how do the rest of the players match up? Undoubtedly, with Mourning looking to resign and if Finley goes there, they have a lot of depth, but are the equivalent as a team?

[batman2883]

The only change i see the Spurs need to do is somehow get rid of Rasho and his expensive bench warming fee. If only Isiah Thomas was willing to take him away too, Rasho really needs to leave already.

[Brodels]

Come on you seriously do not think that Miami has gotten a shitload deeper, and i got news for you we are probably losing Devin brown i think someone else will overpay for him in response to not getting Finley.

Well, then, bring something to the table. Unless you're dealing with the Knicks, you've generally got to give up something of value to get back something of value unless you have draft picks or you're under the salary cap. The Spurs had exceptions going into the offseason. So aside from adding some basic pieces, what do you expect the Spurs to do? If you want them to shake things up in a big way, you've got to realize that at least one of the centers in addition to Parker or Manu would probably need to be dealt.

Please enlighten us.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

I like the Spurs moves so far. We just need a backup SF. Please dont start trying to compare the Heat, Cavs etc... and the Spurs. They are those teams are trying to get to championship contenders level.

Contrary to what some people are saying, I think Miami may have made too many big moves and not enough good moves. Their team is sorely lacking the solid role players with too many big ego players. Somehow I prefer the Cavs moves and I think the Cavs might do just as well or even better than Miami.

[zeleni]

Bowen is the achilles heel. I do not tend to fix it.

[ManuTastic]

Teams can sign quality players but that doesn't mean they'll win the title. If the Spurs re-sign Devin and Glenn, then sign two "nobodies" to fill the roster, we're in business for next season. If Finley goes to Miami as most people predict, then yeah, they'll have a deeper team then they had last year but don't forget what type of a players they got. JWill and Walker need the ball at all times to be effective. Both take horrible shots and play NO D. Posey has been a player that I've always liked but he's had some incidents with his coaches and he'll probably have some with Van Gundy. Finley won't get the playing time that he needs to become really effective IMO. He's a very good player that could help teams like the Bulls or the Nuggets more then the Heat IMO.


True dat to tha MAX. Good post. Walker and J. Will negate their own abilities with their own problems. Walker in particular is the poster child for today's NBA problems: million dollar talent, 50-cent head. I do NOT think Miami suddenly becomes a title favorite. Contender, maybe.

[Mr. Body]

True dat to tha MAX. Good post. Walker and J. Will negate their own abilities with their own problems. Walker in particular is the poster child for today's NBA problems: million dollar talent, 50-cent head. I do NOT think Miami suddenly becomes a title favorite. Contender, maybe.

Getting Finley and resigning Mourning (only one of which has happened) would be major for Miami, nice moves. If they don't resign Damon Jones and replace him with Jason Williams, that's a push, possibly a step down given Jones' accuracy. Walker I can't be convinced is that helpful. Posey is nice to have off the bench, provided he returns to form from a couple years ago (which was a contract year, right?).

[Dex]

Until we deal the rights to Luis Scola, he is still property of the Spurs. If that pans out, it will help us in the future.

We drafted a young and promising player in Ian Mahini, and still have several prospects developing overseas. That'll help for the future.

Oh, and let's not forget the fact that last summer, we all but locked up our future by securing the nucleus of this team until 2010.

I'd like to see one or two surprising additions, too. But I think right now, we're fine just worrying about this upcoming season. And even then, people shouldn't be entering Headless Chicken mode until we can see how these 'blockbuster deals' are really going to affect these teams. I'm not saying they didn't get better, but as someone already stated earlier, these tactics didn't exactly work for the 2003-2004 Mavericks or Lakers either.


If it isn't broken, don't fix it, to paraphrase someone.

[GrandeDavid]

For some reason I just don`t see Toine and Fin doing damage to the Spurs. The Spurs OWN...OOOOOWWWWWWNNNNN Finley in the playoffs and last I checked, Toine has never ever EVER defeated a Tim Duncan Spurs team.

[GrandeDavid]

Plus the MDE is getting older and creakier.

[cecil collins]

I would prefer the team to stay the course. Chemistry is very important, and the spurs have it. I'm not gonna criticize the architects of the team,(doesn't mean you can't) because they seem to put the pieces where they fit. Trade Rasho for Artest, and whoever else from the Pacers to make that viable.

[team-work]

This year's off-season moves are, by no means, comparable to those last year in terms of impact, eg O'neal, Nash, McGrady... That means the Spurs need not panic. Just keep the core, add some role player(s) who don't have huge egos. The success story will continue.

[Extra Stout]

I think the spurs can repeat, but i am dissapointed with the summer so far. Signing two big men who are both over 30 and possibly resigning a guy who ended the year with back problems may help a little now, but it does nothing for the future. I didn't want to see the whole team reconstructed, but it is time to start drafting and signing young guys to two and three year deals.While emotionally you may be fidgety because Miami is making moves, that emotion is not translating into effective arguments about what the Spurs are failing to do.

The team basically has an entire farm system of young players developing overseas. Over there, they actually get playing time. In SA, they would ride the pine because the rotation 1-9 is set already for 2005-06.


Do you know why the yankees have been so good for so many years, it is because they are willing to constanly alter their lineup "IF" it makes them better. Don't restructure the team for the heck of it, but find ways to improve on the weaknesses. Everyone has weaknesses.I remember that the Yankees won four championships in five years when they kept a core of players together for several years.

I also see that as Steinbrenner has gotten impatient and has shuffled his lineup year after year chasing every marquee free agent in order to keep pace with the Red Sox, he's gotten diminishing returns every year despite a jaw-droppingly extravagant payroll. Now he's paying $203 million to field a team that's struggling to get the wild card spot.

The Spurs' weaknesses are: backup small forward and third-string point guard. These are not weaknesses that require flashy, high-profile moves that get weeks of media coverage.

The NBA and the media NEED the Heat to generate a lot of buzz because if America thinks that the Spurs are big favorites to repeat as champions, then Into the West reruns will start getting better ratings on TNT, and World Series of Poker reruns will do the same on ESPN.

[Vashner]

No.
Ya'll just bored and looking for movement.. WE WON the championship.. leave as many people on as you can.... we have young legs.. they can only get better.

[Marcus Bryant]

There's only so much cap room for the remaining free agents.

Teams that have their full MLE left:

Detroit
Denver
LA Lakers

Any others?

[Obstructed_View]

IMHO keeping Rasho would be the best move the Spurs can make if they expect to face Miami in the finals. The Spurs don't need scoring from the 5, and you can't teach size. I'll be excited to see if he decides to compete for a starting job in camp. Everybody knows how much more effective he is when he's not on the floor with Duncan, so he'd be a good defensive anchor for the second team AND can score a little from the post if he's the only one in the blocks.

Personally I don't think Miami made smart moves. They were clearly the better team against Detroit and just had some unlucky injuries. They may not be that good again and they certainly won't feast on a weak East like they did last year.

[Marcus Bryant]

IMHO keeping Rasho would be the best move the Spurs can make if they expect to face Miami in the finals. The Spurs don't need scoring from the 5, and you can't teach size. I'll be excited to see if he decides to compete for a starting job in camp. Everybody knows how much more effective he is when he's not on the floor with Duncan, so he'd be a good defensive anchor for the second team AND can score a little from the post if he's the only one in the blocks.

Personally I don't think Miami made smart moves. They were clearly the better team against Detroit and just had some unlucky injuries. They may not be that good again and they certainly won't feast on a weak East like they did last year.


I think avoiding paying Rasho to go away and play for another contender was a good move.

You're right, bigman depth is a very nice thing to have.

[Obstructed_View]

I think avoiding paying Rasho to go away and play for another contender was a good move.

You're right, bigman depth is a very nice thing to have.

That's an excellent point. I hadn't thought of that.

[gameFACE]

To answer the original question - NO, the Spurs don't need to make a "major" move. I would ask what is a major move to you (dbreiden)?

Miami will be a contender as they were this past year. But their acquisitions this summer aren't as big as they seem to be. Antoine Walker has perhaps singlehandedly guaranteed that the Heat will choke in the playoffs next year. He's the Ted McGinley of NBA players.

[Vashner]

In some ways the Spurs Championship team transcended money...

Just because we have money does not mean we need to spend it.

[Dex]

We're all gonna die and the team is going to be shipped to Kentucky.

:pctoss

[benjirh]

While emotionally you may be fidgety because Miami is making moves, that emotion is not translating into effective arguments about what the Spurs are failing to do.

First of all what are you talking about. Tell me what my argument is and how it is not effective. All I was saying is that the spurs have some weaknesses that they have not addresed. Later on you write the exact same thing I did.
They are still week at SF and PG. Have they signed a SF or PG yet? No, hence the reason I said I am not overly impressed with the summer SO FAR. I alos said that I assume they will address it coming up. If they do I will happy. If not, then yes, I will be unhappy with the summer.


The Spurs' weaknesses are: backup small forward and third-string point guard. These are not weaknesses that require flashy, high-profile moves that get weeks of media coverage.

When did I say that they needed to make a high profile move?

[Extra Stout]

First of all what are you talking about. Tell me what my argument is and how it is not effective. All I was saying is that the spurs have some weaknesses that they have not addresed. Later on you write the exact same thing I did.
You said they needed to start planning for the future by drafting young players, implying that they have not done so.

I replied that they have an entire farm league of young players developing overseas.

I rebutted your contention that they needed to sign young players to two- and three-year deals by noting that the Spurs' young guys get more playing time and experience by staying overseas until the Spurs are ready for them.

All those thoughts were communicated in plain English. Looking back it was kind of at a seventh-grade reading level. That might be kind of tough. Is English perhaps your second or third language? Is that the problem here? The Spurs do have a lot of international fans, after all.


They are still week at SF and PG. Have they signed a SF or PG yet? No, hence the reason I said I am not overly impressed with the summer SO FAR. I alos said that I assume they will address it coming up. If they do I will happy. If not, then yes, I will be unhappy with the summer.

Their "weaknesses" are really quite minor and can be taken care of with veteran-minimum signings anytime between now and training camp. There are more players available than there is money to pay them around the league, thanks to our friend "amnesty."

Your "disappointment" is really just impatience because you don't know who they're going to end up with. There's really no urgency right now to make those decisions. They still have a lot of options through which to sift.


When did I say that they needed to make a high profile move?That part probably should not have been directed at you, though if you review the thread title it is germane.

[benjirh]

You said they needed to start planning for the future by drafting young players, implying that they have not done so.

I replied that they have an entire farm league of young players developing overseas.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. I meant that I was hoping for some young impact bench players this year. Guys we can start working into the system now. I am sure there are some good guys overseas that we have drafted, but am a little leary that if they ever do come back over they will be IR fodder for a couple years and then be done.


Their "weaknesses" are really quite minor and can be taken care of with veteran-minimum signings anytime between now and training camp. There are more players available than there is money to pay them around the league, thanks to our friend "amnesty."

First of all I never said their weaknesses were major. I am fine with vet min guys to a point, but there were also good young guys who can fill the same position, give us the same production, and be better fit for the future. Those are the guys we should be getting. As far as the amnesty cuts go, I think it will be harder to sign guys now than before the amnesty. Once Finley is gone, all the teams that need SG/SF players will be throwing out the money. Making it a little tougher for us to sign them.


Your "disappointment" is really just impatience because you don't know who they're going to end up with. There's really no urgency right now to make those decisions. They still have a lot of options through which to sift.

Did you even read what I wrote? Every time I said "so far", I know how FAgency works. I know that you can get very solid reserves later on. I even said that I assumed the team will sign people, and that I will probably be happy. My response was to the people that said we needed to do nothing because we are the champions. I was challenging that thought. So thanks for trying to analyze how I was feeling by reading two posts. But maybe read a little closer next time.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

With all Miami is doing, i ask do they need a major move in the next few weeks to counter some of what Miami has done. I don't think that just resigning Brown will be enough, Miami is suddenly much deeper than the spurs, with Walker, and Finley two near all stars coming off the bench, spurs may need to make a trade to get some more depth, and what are the pacers and pistons doing, why are they letting the heat just load up like this with no response at all?


Finley hasn't decided on Miami yet, he still might go to Detroit.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sorry, but exactly how does anyone say that the Spurs are weak at point guard and get away with it? I remember when Lloyd Daniels and Vinny Del Negro were the point guard rotation with this team. I remember when we were relieved to draft Cory Alexander. Beno Udrih might have made dumb mistakes on a couple of occasions, but I can't think of very many teams that wouldn't trade their backup point guard for him, and there are some that would trade their starter for him.

[Knoxville Spur]

With a healthy Duncan and a fully established Manu we are still the team to beat and the roster is plenty deep. We don't need to get raped for Rasho, but if a reasonable trade opportunity for someone other than the big three comes up, so be it. If not, playing the cards we have does not bother me one tiny bit.

[CaptainLate]

With all Miami is doing, i ask do they need a major move in the next few weeks to counter some of what Miami has done?

Not according to John Hollinger of ESPN:

Spurs still the "favorite till further notice."
"Oberto is productive big man from Europe."
It's goint to "take alot to get past such a talented and cohesive team".