*ESPN FIRST TAKE: Pop is the BEST COACH of all time?

[spursparker9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQJlWS4msc

Hmm, wonder what history would be like if Larry Brown coaches the Spurs from the 97 till now.

[anakha]

Hmm, wonder what history would be like if Larry Brown coaches the Spurs from the 97 till now.

Larry 'Next Town' Brown would never have lasted 3 years.

[SpurAddict561]

His longevity alone >>>>>>>>

Never missed the playoffs
50 wins or more every year

[Fireball]

and a completely different approach than Phil Jackson ... not triangle and nothing else, but changing the offense with regard to the development of his players and the league rules

[spursparker9]

Got to agree with SAS that having RC Buford and Peter Holt by his side really does help Pop.

[DMC]

I agree. I've said on here many times that Larry Brown is the best coach in the history of the game.

[hitmantb]

It is very hard to say. Pop handpicks every player that joins the team and had one of the most coach-able superstars in league history. Most superstars can not stand being screamed at in front of everyone and in this day and age, ego management is just as important as player development. Duncan truly sets the tone for everyone else here.

I would say Phil is much better at star management and dealing with owners and GM's not on the same page.

Pop is better at player development turning rocks into gems, but I am not sure if he could have handled Shaq/Kobe feuds or Artest/Rodman's of the world.

Also early in Pop's career he had a decent defensive system and his offensive system was basically dump it to Duncan for 40+ minutes a game. This year's Pop was special but overall career it is hard to argue with Phil's results. I would say they are equal, apple to orange kind of way.

[xmas1997]

I agree. I've said on here many times that Larry Brown is the best coach in the history of the game.

I agree and he was one of Pops mentors along with Nellie.

[Gummi Clutch]

he is.

[TampaDude]

Say, didn't Pop beat Larry Brown in 2005?

[Clipper Nation]

I agree. I've said on here many times that Larry Brown is the best coach in the history of the game.
Larry Brown is an amazing coach, but I can't call him the greatest because of his two crippling flaws:

1. Five minutes after being hired to his present job, he starts thinking about his next job
2. Ironically, despite being a successful college coach, he refused to trust his young players in the NBA.... case in point: ruining Darko's career before it ever got started, costing Team USA a gold medal by not playing LeBron or Melo nearly enough while letting veterans like AI and Marbury chuck to their heart's content

[MultiTroll]

Say, didn't Pop beat Larry Brown in 2005?
That to me is a credit to Brown he took it 7 games and 5 minutes within winning.
Compare rosters.
Spurs much better then Detroits.

[TampaDude]

That to me is a credit to Brown he took it 7 games and 5 minutes within winning.
Compare rosters.
Spurs much better then Detroits.

Pistons were the defending champs, though. Hardly a bunch of scrubs. It was an evenly matched series, and that's what made it so epic!

[Horse]

Phil never built shit and bailed everytime the ship was sinking. The only thing he did better than Pop was get on the team with the best players, ready to win a championship and more than that no one is better at complaining about the refs without actually saying it and getting his way. He's turned series around this way.

[dbreiden83080]

So they think Larry Brown is the best coach of all time.. :lol

Ask the Knicks about that..

[T Park]

Pistons were the defending champs, though. Hardly a bunch of scrubs. It was an evenly matched series, and that's what made it so epic!

Yeah but they had no bench, while the spurs had one with Horry and Barry. Detroit' bench was McDyess and? Lindsey Hunter?

[DMC]

I agree and he was one of Pops mentors along with Nellie.

I've talked with Pop about Larry and Nellie. He likes talking about them. I asked him if he ever got bored and decided to write a book, would he talk about Larry and Don and he said "probably, who wants to read about me?" lol

I used to talk with Larry all the time. Never met Don.

[DMC]

So they think Larry Brown is the best coach of all time.. :lol

Ask the Knicks about that..

Larry Brown is the only guy I've ever seen who can take a shit team to the playoffs, move to another town and do it again. To say he's not a great coach is ignorant of the facts.

[BillMc]

Larry 'Next Town' Brown would never have lasted 3 years.

As great as he is, Detroit fans should never forgive Larry for talking to Cleveland during the 2005 finals against us. It was a bushleague move by him.

[dbreiden83080]

Larry Brown is the only guy I've ever seen who can take a shit team to the playoffs, move to another town and do it again. To say he's not a great coach is ignorant of the facts.

I didn't say he was not great they think he is the best ever.. Larry Brown has a volatile personality and can't handle players or owners.. Not for very long anyway..

[DMC]

Larry Brown is an amazing coach, but I can't call him the greatest because of his two crippling flaws:

1. Five minutes after being hired to his present job, he starts thinking about his next job
2. Ironically, despite being a successful college coach, he refused to trust his young players in the NBA.... case in point: ruining Darko's career before it ever got started, costing Team USA a gold medal by not playing LeBron or Melo nearly enough while letting veterans like AI and Marbury chuck to their heart's content

1. We aren't talking about the best employee
2. Larry is a system guy who wants things done a certain way, no deviations. Older guys know the system and how many gold medals has Phil won, just out of curiosity?





[hide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Jackson#)]
Team
Year
G
W
L
W–L%
Finish
PG
PW
PL
PW–L%
Result


CHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Bulls)
1989–90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season)
82
55
27
.671
2nd in Central
16
10
6
.625
Lost in Conf. Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NBA_Playoffs)


CHI
1990–91 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season)
82
61
21
.744
1st in Central
17
15
2
.882
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_NBA_Finals)


CHI
1991–92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%9392_NBA_season)
82
67
15
.817
1st in Central
22
15
7
.682
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_Finals)


CHI
1992–93 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)
82
57
25
.695
1st in Central
19
15
4
.789
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NBA_Finals)


CHI
1993–94 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season)
82
55
27
.671
2nd in Central
10
6
4
.600
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_Playoffs)


CHI
1994–95 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season)
82
47
35
.573
3rd in Central
10
5
5
.500
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NBA_Playoffs)


CHI
1995–96 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season)
82
72
10
.878
1st in Central
18
15
3
.833
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NBA_Finals)


CHI
1996–97 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season)
82
69
13
.841
1st in Central
19
15
4
.789
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NBA_Finals)


CHI
1997–98 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_NBA_season)
82
62
20
.756
1st in Central
21
15
6
.714
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NBA_Finals)


LAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Lakers)
1999–00 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999%E2%80%932000_NBA_season)
82
67
15
.817
1st in Pacific
23
15
8
.652
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2000–01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_NBA_season)
82
56
26
.683
1st in Pacific
16
15
1
.938
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2001–02 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_NBA_season)
82
58
24
.707
2nd in Pacific
19
15
4
.789
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2002–03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_NBA_season)
82
50
32
.610
2nd in Pacific
12
6
6
.500
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Playoffs)


LAL
2003–04 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_NBA_season)
82
56
26
.683
1st in Pacific
22
13
9
.591
Lost in NBA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2005–06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NBA_season)
82
45
37
.549
3rd in Pacific
7
3
4
.429
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NBA_Playoffs)


LAL
2006–07 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_NBA_season)
82
42
40
.512
2nd in Pacific
5
1
4
.200
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_Playoffs)


LAL
2007–08 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season)
82
57
25
.695
1st in Pacific
21
14
7
.667
Lost in NBA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2008–09 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NBA_season)
82
65
17
.793
1st in Pacific
23
16
7
.696
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2009–10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_NBA_season)
82
57
25
.695
1st in Pacific
23
16
7
.696
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Finals)


LAL
2010–11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NBA_season)
82
57
25
.695
1st in Pacific
10
4
6
.400
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Playoffs)


Career

1640
1155
485
.704

333
229
104
.688


Phil never developed a team. Every team he signed onto was a playoff team at least and a juggernaut at best. You don't go from Finals to Finals threepeat to Finals threepeat (6 peat for him) without being a front runner. He's no better than Derek Fisher or Steve Kerr who rode others to rings. Show me a coach who dealt with down years without quitting and then overcame obstacles time and again to reach the Finals, and I'll show you a great coach. Phil is just a highly decorated, self important shit talker with a knack for right place/right time.

[DMC]

Now look at Larry Brown:




[hide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Brown_(basketball)#)]
Team
Year
G
W
L
W–L%
Finish
PG
PW
PL
PW–L%
Result


CAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Cougars) (ABA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Basketball_Association))
1972–73 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972%E2%80%9373_ABA_season)
84
57
27
.679
1st in East
12
7
5
.583
Lost in Division Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_ABA_Playoffs)


CAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Cougars) (ABA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Basketball_Association))
1973–74 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973%E2%80%9374_ABA_season)
84
47
37
.560
3rd in East
4
0
4
.000
Lost in Division Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_ABA_Playoffs)


DEN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Nuggets) (ABA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Basketball_Association))
1974–75 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_ABA_season)
84
65
19
.774
1st in West
13
7
6
.538
Lost in Division Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_ABA_Playoffs)


DEN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Nuggets) (ABA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Basketball_Association))
1975–76 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975%E2%80%9376_ABA_season)
84
60
24
.714
1st in West
13
6
7
.462
Lost in ABA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_ABA_Playoffs)


DEN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Nuggets)
1976–77 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976%E2%80%9377_NBA_season)
82
50
32
.610
1st in Midwest
6
2
4
.333
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_NBA_Playoffs)


DEN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Nuggets)
1977–78 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977%E2%80%9378_NBA_season)
82
48
34
.585
1st in Midwest
13
6
7
.462
Lost in Conf. Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NBA_Playoffs)


DEN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Nuggets)
1978–79 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_NBA_season)
53
28
25
.528
—
—
—
—
—
—


NJN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Nets)
1981–82 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981%E2%80%9382_NBA_season)
82
44
38
.537
3rd in Atlantic
2
0
2
.000
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_NBA_Playoffs)


NJN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Nets)
1982–83 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982%E2%80%9383_NBA_season)
76
47
29
.537
—
—
—
—
—
—


SAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs)
1988–89 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9389_NBA_season)
82
21
61
.256
5th in Midwest
—
—
—
—
Missed Playoffs


SAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs)
1989–90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989%E2%80%9390_NBA_season)
82
56
26
.683
1st in Midwest
10
6
4
.600
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NBA_Playoffs)


SAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs)
1990–91 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990%E2%80%9391_NBA_season)
82
55
27
.671
1st in Midwest
4
1
3
.250
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_NBA_Playoffs)


SAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs)
1991–92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%9392_NBA_season)
38
21
17
.553
—
—
—
—
—
—


LAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Clippers)
1991–92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991%E2%80%9392_NBA_season)
35
23
12
.657
5th in Pacific
5
2
3
.400
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NBA_Playoffs)


LAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Clippers)
1992–93 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season)
82
41
41
.500
5th in Pacific
5
2
3
.400
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NBA_Playoffs)


IND (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pacers)
1993–94 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993%E2%80%9394_NBA_season)
82
47
35
.573
4th in Central
16
10
6
.625
Lost in Conf. Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NBA_Playoffs)


IND (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pacers)
1994–95 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2%80%9395_NBA_season)
82
52
30
.634
1st in Central
17
10
7
.588
Lost in Conf. Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NBA_Playoffs)


IND (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pacers)
1995–96 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_NBA_season)
82
52
30
.634
2nd in Central
5
2
3
.400
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NBA_Playoffs)


IND (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pacers)
1996–97 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E2%80%9397_NBA_season)
82
39
43
.476
6th in Central
—
—
—
—
Missed Playoffs


PHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_76ers)
1997–98 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_NBA_season)
82
31
51
.378
7th in Atlantic
—
—
—
—
Missed Playoffs


PHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_76ers)
1998–99 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_NBA_season)
50
28
22
.560
3rd in Atlantic
8
3
5
.375
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NBA_Playoffs)


PHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_76ers)
1999–00 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999%E2%80%932000_NBA_season)
82
49
33
.598
3rd in Atlantic
10
5
5
.500
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Playoffs)


PHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_76ers)
2000–01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_NBA_season)
82
56
26
.683
1st in Atlantic
23
12
11
.522
Lost in NBA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Finals)


PHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_76ers)
2001–02 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%9302_NBA_season)
82
43
39
.524
4th in Atlantic
5
2
3
.400
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Playoffs)


PHI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_76ers)
2002–03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_NBA_season)
82
48
34
.585
2nd in Atlantic
12
6
6
.500
Lost in Conf. Semifinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Playoffs)


DET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Pistons)
2003–04 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_NBA_season)
82
54
28
.659
2nd in Central
23
16
7
.696
Won NBA Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NBA_Finals)


DET
2004–05 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_NBA_season)
82
54
28
.659
1st in Central
25
15
10
.600
Lost in NBA Finals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NBA_Finals)


NYK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Knicks)
2005–06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NBA_season)
82
23
59
.280
5th in Atlantic
—
—
—
—
Missed Playoffs


CHA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Bobcats)
2008–09 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_NBA_season)
82
35
47
.427
4th in Southeast
—
—
—
—
Missed Playoffs


CHA
2009–10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_NBA_season)
82
44
38
.537
3rd in Southeast
4
0
4
.000
Lost in First Round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NBA_Playoffs)


CHA
2010–11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_NBA_season)
28
9
19
.321
—
—
—
—
—
—


NBA Career

2002
1098
904
.548

193
100
93
.518


ABA Career

336
229
107
.682

42
20
22
.476


Career Total

2338
1327
1011
.568

235
120
115
.511



This guy never had a juggernaut and was still a better coach than Phil Jackson because he developed players and teams. That's what coaches do, they develop players and teams. They don't counsel them and write books about how uncoachable the players are.

[DMC]

I didn't say he was not great they think he is the best ever.. Larry Brown has a volatile personality and can't handle players or owners.. Not for very long anyway..

What players could he not handle? You don't judge coaching ability by how the guy gets along with his employer or his players. You judge it by how he changes the team for the positive. Not all coaches are likable, but some are damn effective.

[dbreiden83080]

What players could he not handle? You don't judge coaching ability by how the guy gets along with his employer or his players. You judge it by how he changes the team for the positive. Not all coaches are likable, but some are damn effective.

So he is the GOAT???

[KL2]

Pop isn't that great tbh, too stubborn. SA nearly lost in the first round because of Pop's defensive match ups, he's been out coached multiple times throughout the playoffs as well.

[DMC]

So he is the GOAT???
He is, because he's still doing it while Phil is jerking himself off in an office in NY wondering how he's going to keep Carmelo Anthony. Pop is a great coach as well, way up there probably top 3 or so, but he's a disciple of Larry Brown and Larry is a disciple of Dean Smith. Dean never coached the pros and he'd have to contend with Wooden.

[hitmantb]

I will say this, if Phil Jackson can lead (let's face it, Fisher is just a puppet for Jackson) the Knicks to a championship within 4 years. Regardless of how he does it (player development, poaching LeBron, you name it), I will rank him ahead of Pop.

You can not argue with the results and Popovich style works well in small town with a super coach-able players and owner/GM who back him up 120%. I can't see Pop succeeding with poisonous players like Melo who will tank games intentionally to push Pop out of town. I can't wait to see Phil's next moves.

[DMX7]

Phil Jackson is a better coach. Pop is very high, but not the best.

[baseline bum]

Yeah but they had no bench, while the spurs had one with Horry and Barry. Detroit' bench was McDyess and? Lindsey Hunter?

Crazy in 04 how deep they were with Mike James, Mehmet Okur, Corliss Williamson, Lindsey Hunter, and Elden Campbell. The teams were only evenly matched because Duncan's ankles were completely fucked and Ginobili got hurt in Game 3. A healthy 2005 Spurs beat them in 5 and beat the 2004 Pistons in 7.

[DMC]

I will say this, if Phil Jackson can lead (let's face it, Fisher is just a puppet for Jackson) the Knicks to a championship within 4 years. Regardless of how he does it (player development, poaching LeBron, you name it), I will rank him ahead of Pop.

You can not argue with the results and Popovich style works well in small town with a super coach-able players and owner/GM who back him up 120%. I can't see Pop succeeding with poisonous players like Melo who will tank games intentionally to push Pop out of town. I can't wait to see Phil's next moves.

Phil isn't a coach. Puppet or not, you cannot rank a guy ahead of another guy as a better coach because of what he does as a non-coach type employee. Otherwise we have to start thinking about other non-coach meddlers who were successful... and list them in the coaching ranks.

[Purch]

I will say this, if Phil Jackson can lead (let's face it, Fisher is just a puppet for Jackson) the Knicks to a championship within 4 years. Regardless of how he does it (player development, poaching LeBron, you name it), I will rank him ahead of Pop.

You can not argue with the results and Popovich style works well in small town with a super coach-able players and owner/GM who back him up 120%. I can't see Pop succeeding with poisonous players like Melo who will tank games intentionally to push Pop out of town. I can't wait to see Phil's next moves.

Thats like ranking Riley higher than Pop, due to Spo's achievements.It doesn't make sense to move people up as coaches, when they're not actually coaching the team anymore.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The best thing about Popovich is his emphasis on player development and working with so many different systems over his head coaching career. No other coach of that calibre managed to make basketball evolve.

The First Take Trolls do not whisper a word about Popovich's greatest achievement as a "coach".

[PublicOption]

Pop is the BEST COACH of all time?

Pop is the BEST COACH of all time.

[TampaDude]

Crazy in 04 how deep they were with Mike James, Mehmet Okur, Corliss Williamson, Lindsey Hunter, and Elden Campbell. The teams were only evenly matched because Duncan's ankles were completely fucked and Ginobili got hurt in Game 3. A healthy 2005 Spurs beat them in 5 and beat the 2004 Pistons in 7.

0.4

Pistons raped the Lakers in 5 in 2004 (almost a sweep), so maybe, maybe not.

[dg7md]

Any suckers want to do some damage control?

[dunkman]

Phil is the best after Red, he's the master of offense AND defense. Larry Brown is slightly better in defense, but average offensive coach. Pop is slightly better defensive coach then Phil, but until '07 Phil was much better running the offense. Pop is clearly better then Larry and Phil developing talent. At this point, Pop may be better then Phil, however Phil seldom made mistakes - while Pop coached the 0.4, the AND 1 and the 6, costing 2 or 3 'ships.

[T Park]

Crazy in 04 how deep they were with Mike James, Mehmet Okur, Corliss Williamson, Lindsey Hunter, and Elden Campbell. The teams were only evenly matched because Duncan's ankles were completely fucked and Ginobili got hurt in Game 3. A healthy 2005 Spurs beat them in 5 and beat the 2004 Pistons in 7.

Yeah people always convincingly forget that Duncan was on 2 bad badly sprained ankles and still put those numbers up.
Watched game 7 the other day, 100% forgot that elden Campbell was on that team. Blew me away.

[moisaenz]

Phil is just a highly overrated motivational speaker.

[therealtruth]

Phil is the best after Red, he's the master of offense AND defense. Larry Brown is slightly better in defense, but average offensive coach. Pop is slightly better defensive coach then Phil, but until '07 Phil was much better running the offense. Pop is clearly better then Larry and Phil developing talent. At this point, Pop may be better then Phil, however Phil seldom made mistakes - while Pop coached the 0.4, the AND 1 and the 6, costing 2 or 3 'ships.

PJ seldom made mistakes. His belief was you have to create you own luck. That makes it harder for you to be at the mercy of 0.4, the foul, and game 6. I think this was the first year I really saw Pop coach with a killer instinct. He was going for the jugula and was not going to let luck decide things.

[florige]

Phil is the best after Red, he's the master of offense AND defense. Larry Brown is slightly better in defense, but average offensive coach. Pop is slightly better defensive coach then Phil, but until '07 Phil was much better running the offense. Pop is clearly better then Larry and Phil developing talent. At this point, Pop may be better then Phil, however Phil seldom made mistakes - while Pop coached the 0.4, the AND 1 and the 6, costing 2 or 3 'ships.




Yeah thats pretty easy not to do when you have arguebly 2/3 of the best players of all-time on the teams he walked in to. Once a team figures out his system with the players he has he usually bolts. He is a motivational speaker who talks nice in front of the camera

[florige]

PJ seldom made mistakes. His belief was you have to create you own luck. That makes it harder for you to be at the mercy of 0.4, the foul, and game 6. I think this was the first year I really saw Pop coach with a killer instinct. He was going for the jugula and was not going to let luck decide things.



I noticed that too with this particular team. We almost always would let teams back in no matter how big the lead was. Idk was that a system on how Pop coached the players, did he change game plans, whatever it was like you said this season in particular he made sure to go for the jugular more times than none. I remember during the insane win streak we had if I remember correctly all of mostly all of those games were straight massacre's.

[BatManu20]

Phil Jackson is a better coach. Pop is very high, but not the best.

Phil is certainly top 2, but Pop has done more with far less. You can make that case for him against any coach in NBA history. And Phil Jackson also got swept in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2011 with a healthy Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol squad which ended his coaching career. That would never happen to a Pop coached team. IMO he's the superior coach.

[DMX7]

Phil is certainly top 2, but Pop has done more with far less. You can make that case for him against any coach in NBA history. And Phil Jackson also got swept in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2011 with a healthy Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol squad which ended his coaching career. That would never happen to a Pop coached team. IMO he's the superior coach.

He hasn't "done more" because Phil has 11 championships and Pop has 5, but he obviously didn't have Jordan, Pipen, Shaq & Kobe in their prime.

[dunkman]

Yeah thats pretty easy not to do when you have arguebly 2/3 of the best players of all-time on the teams he walked in to. Once a team figures out his system with the players he has he usually bolts. He is a motivational speaker who talks nice in front of the camera

Between MJ, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe and Gasol - only Shaq won 1 'ship without Phil and it was riding the bench in the finals. There is no such thing as motivational speaker that wins 11 championships.

[florige]

Between MJ, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe and Gasol - only Shaq won 1 'ship without Phil and it was riding the bench in the finals. There is no such thing as motivational speaker that wins 11 championships.


Sorry not convinced. When PJ goes to a team with a older roster, or builds a team from the ground up and wins multiple championships then maybe I will re-consider. I am pretty sure if the Knicks had Carmelo along side with Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant PJ would be coaching them not sitting up in the front office.

[J.T.]

If the Spurs were in L.A. or New York and had won 3 titles in 5 years like they did in the mid-2000s, does Pop still have a job after not ringing between 2008-2011, with the team clearly falling into the 2nd tier of NBA elite and going out as a 1 seed vs an 8 seed in 2011? Probably not. Only in San Antonio.

[Mel_13]

Quick note on Pop: I think it’s fascinating that the four greatest NBA coaches of all time — Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Pop — are so clearly the four greatest coaches of all time. Throw away the first 10 NBA seasons since it barely looked like basketball. (And it wasn’t just the styles. If you wanted to watch black players, you had to go see the Harlem Globetrotters.) Really, the league we’re watching now started when Bill Russell showed up in 1956. Of those 58 seasons since 1956-57, Auerbach (nine rings), Jackson (11), Riley (five) and Popovich (five) have won more than 50 percent of the titles (30 combined). Since no other NBA coach has won even THREE titles, really, there’s no Mount Rushmore argument to be had.

http://grantland.com/features/24-lingering-questions-from-the-nba-finals/

[mudyez]

Just curious. Since Pop was named COY again, is there any footage of him getting the trophy?

[Mel_13]

Just curious. Since Pop was named COY again, is there any footage of him getting the trophy?

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/140422_gregg_popovich_named_2013-14_nba_coach_of_the_year

[mudyez]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/140422_gregg_popovich_named_2013-14_nba_coach_of_the_year

so there was no ceremony prior to a playoff game?

[Mel_13]

so there was no ceremony prior to a playoff game?

Not really a ceremony. More like an acknowledgement of the award before Game 2 of the Dallas series. I can't recall much about it, just that Pop got a big ovation from the crowd. Too bad the Spurs lost by 20 that night.

The video is probably posted here on ST. Go back and find the thread announcing his selection and the thread for Game 2 of the Dallas series. Good chance that you'll find it in one of those.

[Malik Hairston]

:lol Phil Jackson's style of coaching would no longer be effective in today's league, tbh..

He's a motivational speaker that babysits drama queen divas like Dad Killer, Kobe, Pippen and Shaq..he's never been known as an X's and O's guy, and he has never won a series where his team wasn't expected to win..he benefited greatly from coaching in eras that were focused on ISO basketball and minimal scheming..

It was funny seeing how helpless he looked against Carlisle's new-age style in 2011 with an equally talented team that was favored to win the series, tbh:lol..it was the same against Adelman's Sacramento ball-movement in 2002, where the Lakers were severely outplayed by system basketball..


Pop has completely changed his style and scheme, he has adapted, which is extremely rare among pro sports coaches..he has brought an innovative system to the league, something that has never been seen before at the pro level, and should have had 2 consecutive titles with a group of players that didn't feature anybody that was even close to being the best in the league(the 2014 Spurs didn't even have a top 10 player, tbh)..

[pjjrfan]

Pop is a great communicator. I think his strength has always been his ability to let guys know where they stand, what he expects from them and what he wants when they are practicing, on the court and during the offseason. And regardless of what Pop's feeling are about any player he lets you know what your doing right and what your doing wrong. In a league where stars and talent dictate way too much as to what happens on teams Pop has created a haven for team first and last basketball. That in itself is special.

[ajh18]

Consider the following:

One kid grows up in a wealthy family, is given easy access to the top schools, and goes on to found a multimillion dollar company.

Another kid comes from a lower/middle-class background, pays his way through school, and starts a million dollar company out of his garage.

Now who's a better/smarter entrepreneur? That's analogous to the argument you're making between Phil and Pop. Both are incredibly successful. Both navigated their environment to achieve success, but did so in a totally different way. One wanted and was naturally able to place themselves in more advantageous positions, and saw more total success as a result. That shouldn't take away from them, lots of rich kids lose their money and make nothing of themselves. But is that more impressive than the guy who creates something out of less?

All I know is, as a human being, I take Pop every single time. And that counts for something.

[Malik Hairston]

It'll be interesting to see how the Knicks play with Jackson in the front office and his disciple at coach..I fully expect that it will be antiquated ISO-ball, tbh(no different than Mike Woodson)..

[Pako]

Consider the following:

One kid grows up in a wealthy family, is given easy access to the top schools, and goes on to found a multimillion dollar company.

Another kid comes from a lower/middle-class background, pays his way through school, and starts a million dollar company out of his garage.

Now who's a better/smarter entrepreneur? That's analogous to the argument you're making between Phil and Pop. Both are incredibly successful. Both navigated their environment to achieve success, but did so in a totally different way. One wanted and was naturally able to place themselves in more advantageous positions, and saw more total success as a result. That shouldn't take away from them, lots of rich kids lose their money and make nothing of themselves. But is that more impressive than the guy who creates something out of less?

All I know is, as a human being, I take Pop every single time. And that counts for something.

Good take..

[therealtruth]

:lol Phil Jackson's style of coaching would no longer be effective in today's league, tbh..

He's a motivational speaker that babysits drama queen divas like Dad Killer, Kobe, Pippen and Shaq..he's never been known as an X's and O's guy, and he has never won a series where his team wasn't expected to win..he benefited greatly from coaching in eras that were focused on ISO basketball and minimal scheming..

It was funny seeing how helpless he looked against Carlisle's new-age style in 2011 with an equally talented team that was favored to win the series, tbh:lol..it was the same against Adelman's Sacramento ball-movement in 2002, where the Lakers were severely outplayed by system basketball..


Pop has completely changed his style and scheme, he has adapted, which is extremely rare among pro sports coaches..he has brought an innovative system to the league, something that has never been seen before at the pro level, and should have had 2 consecutive titles with a group of players that didn't feature anybody that was even close to being the best in the league(the 2014 Spurs didn't even have a top 10 player, tbh)..

And how many series has Pop lost where he was expected to win? If anything I think it's harder to meet expectations. Look at the Heat. They're only 2/4. Lebron is 2/5. Having great players doesn't guarantee you anything.

[Malik Hairston]

And how many series has Pop lost where he was expected to win? If anything I think it's harder to meet expectations. Look at the Heat. They're only 2/4. Lebron is 2/5. Having great players doesn't guarantee you anything.

Phil Jackson is a good coach, but he's nothing special..just like Pop was a good coach in the 2000s, but nowhere near what he has evolved into the past few years..

The majority of NBA coaches are terrible and have minimal positive effects on teams, as Bill Simmons said in his book..

A good coach like Jackson stands out among his peers in the pre-analytical era, where the majority of coaches didn't have systems or schemes..there has never been anything that Phil Jackson has done that really impresses me, tbh..a good coach, but not innovative or unique, in any way..

Pop just won a title without a star player on the roster and broke several long beliefs among NBA people(need stars to win, can't utilize your bench in the playoffs, can't win with over the hill ex-stars, etc)..he should have won 2 titles in a row without a superstar player, too..

These Spurs were easily the most unique championship team of all-time, along with being one of the most dominant playoff teams in history, despite not having a single star player..best coaching job of all-time, from a coach that evolved and adapted from his previous style, which is something you never see in pro coaches..

[therealtruth]

Phil Jackson is a good coach, but he's nothing special..just like Pop was a good coach in the 2000s, but nowhere near what he has evolved into the past few years..

The majority of NBA coaches are terrible and have minimal positive effects on teams, as Bill Simmons said in his book..

A good coach like Jackson stands out among his peers in the pre-analytical era, where the majority of coaches didn't have systems or schemes..there has never been anything that Phil Jackson has done that really impresses me, tbh..a good coach, but not innovative or unique, in any way..

Pop just won a title without a star player on the roster and broke several long beliefs among NBA people(need stars to win, can't utilize your bench in the playoffs, can't win with over the hill ex-stars, etc)..he should have won 2 titles in a row without a superstar player, too..

These Spurs were easily the most unique championship team of all-time, along with being one of the most dominant playoff teams in history, despite not having a single star player..best coaching job of all-time, from a coach that evolved and adapted from his previous style, which is something you never see in pro coaches..

Most coaches would never have gotten the opportunity Pop has to evolve.

[FkLA]

Consider the following:

One kid grows up in a wealthy family, is given easy access to the top schools, and goes on to found a multimillion dollar company.

Another kid comes from a lower/middle-class background, pays his way through school, and starts a million dollar company out of his garage.

Now who's a better/smarter entrepreneur? That's analogous to the argument you're making between Phil and Pop. Both are incredibly successful. Both navigated their environment to achieve success, but did so in a totally different way. One wanted and was naturally able to place themselves in more advantageous positions, and saw more total success as a result. That shouldn't take away from them, lots of rich kids lose their money and make nothing of themselves. But is that more impressive than the guy who creates something out of less?

All I know is, as a human being, I take Pop every single time. And that counts for something.

Not a bad comparison but I think you also need to take into account the product both are churning out to make their fortune.

Pop has half the league trying to take Spurs staff and/or emulate the Spurs culture. OTOH where is Phil's coaching tree? Who can realistically emulate the style he has won with other than a select few(big markets) who can attract multiple stars at once? Phil is the rich dude that fronts a lot of money for a good chance at making a fortune--something the average Joe could never attempt. Pop is the dude that was an average Joe and who's innovation led to success. Personally I have more admiration for the latter tbh.

[FkLA]

DMC is killing it in this thread :worthy: