Kawhi: 5 years $80 million per Bill Simmons?

[FkLA]

Heard it on ESPN 1250 earlier today and the guy gave KSAT12 credit. Wouldn't go into effect until the 2015-2016 season obviously. Also mentioned Kawhi will be on national TV (Strahan&Kelly Show) on Wednesday morning.

[FkLA]

Also Timmy will be on Letterman and Parker on Kimmel IIRC tbh.

[Aztecfan03]

Also Timmy will be on Letterman and Parker on Kimmel IIRC tbh.

Parker was on kimmel last night.

[apalisoc_9]

Sounds about right for Kawhi IMO..

[Aztecfan03]

That is steeper than i expected. Is that the max? Someone here said if it wasn't gonna be a max deal, it would have to be 4 years or less.

[apalisoc_9]

That is steeper than i expected. Is that the max? Someone here said if it wasn't gonna be a max deal, it would have to be 4 years or less.

I believe that's the max

[jARS mEsH sEt]

My initial guess was 4 years/40 million, so 5 years/50 million would be fine. 5 years/80 million sounds like way too much. It'll probably be somewhere in between those two figures.

[T Park]

About expected and worth it. Get it done.

[Chinook]

That is steeper than i expected. Is that the max? Someone here said if it wasn't gonna be a max deal, it would have to be 4 years or less.

Because it's a five-year extension, it must be for the max with 7.5-percent increases. Simmons' estimate is possibly too low.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Real talk he deserves whatever Iguodala got during his prime. Iggy most recently signed a 4 year/48 million deal. That sounds exactly right for Kawhi.

[baseline bum]

Saves probably $5 million or so over the deal to get it done now as opposed to next summer.

[timtonymanu]

:tu The Hand

[Prime Time]

Spurs must see a lot of offensive potential to be throwing around that kind of money. I can't recall the last time a 22yr old got offered that much cash for his defense alone.

Of course I think Kawhi could be a 22-25ppg scorer at his prime, so I see no issue here.

[apalisoc_9]

Wait, I was under the impression that they can't negotiate anything this year...am I missing something?

[benefactor]

Will wait for the Tree of Woj.

[DPG21920]

No way. Spurs doing an extension now is the most money they will spend. From a financial perspective there is no doubt they should wait until he is a RFA after next year.

[Chinook]

That's pretty much the max under the 2013-2014 numbers. It would be quite a big more under the 2015-2016 numbers (the ones that will actually determine the value of the contract). I'm getting a $90M/5.

If I had to guess, Simmons is just throwing crap against the wall. No way the Spurs give Leonard the full max this early in the off-season.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Spurs must see a lot of offensive potential to be throwing around that kind of money. I can't recall the last time a 22yr old got offered that much cash for his defense alone.

Of course I think Kawhi could be a 22-25ppg scorer at his prime, so I see no issue here.

He needs to learn how to dribble the ball before he can do that.

[timtonymanu]

Will wait for the Tree of Woj.

Yeah, this.

[Chinook]

Saves probably $5 million or so over the deal to get it done now as opposed to next summer.

It costs them money. If another team offers Kawhi the max, it would be a $64M/4 deal. In contrast, Leonard will make $67 Million over the first four years of a max extension. (NOTE: I used $15 Million as the max for 2015-2016. The really max would be more than that, so the difference is even greater in real life.)

EDIT: The closest estimate I can come up with would be $70M/4 from another team and $74M over the first four years of a max extension.

[baseline bum]

That's what it's going to cost to retain Kawhi. Irving will get an even bigger extension this summer for doing jack shit in his career.

[baseline bum]

It costs them money. If another team offers Kawhi the max, it would be a $64M/4 deal. In contrast, Leonard will make $67 Million over the first four years of a max extensions. (NOTE: I used $15 Million as the max for 2015-2016. The really max would be more than that, so the difference is even greater in real life.)

Isn't the extension based on this year's cap and not the cap when it kicks in?

[Prime Time]

He needs to learn how to dribble the ball before he can do that.
He's a solid ball-handler, I have no idea what you're talking about. Look at his college dribbling if you want to see something to worry about.

[DesignatedT]

I doubt it will be that much. Just wait. Getting into arguments over this is pointless right now.

5/65 seems about right to me but I trust the spurs judgement.

[ElNono]

Do it... love the kid and he's put in the work.

[Mel_13]

Isn't the extension based on this year's cap and not the cap when it kicks in?

A max extension is 25% of the cap the year it kicks in.

[T Park]

Saves probably $5 million or so over the deal to get it done now as opposed to next summer.

Would be a very Spurs move to get it all done now and not sweat it later.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

He's a solid ball-handler, I have no idea what you're talking about. Look at his college dribbling if you want to see something to worry about.

:lmao

[Chinook]

Isn't the extension based on this year's cap and not the cap when it kicks in?

No. The extension is reported assuming the cap stays the same. That's why Simmons is estimating $80M/5. However, the real numbers depend on the 2015-2016 cap, which will be at least $7 Million higher. That translates into about an extra $1.7 Million between the current 0-6 year max and the one in two seasons.

[Mel_13]

That's pretty much the max under the 2013-2014 numbers. It would be quite a big more under the 2015-2016 numbers (the ones that will actually determine the value of the contract). I'm getting a $90M/5.

If I had to guess, Simmons is just throwing crap against the wall. No way the Spurs give Leonard the full max this early in the off-season.

Yeah, this is just a guess by Simmons as to what Leonard will get, not a report of what has been negotiated. It's extremely unlikely that Leonard's agent and the Spurs will even start talking until after the draft. They have until October 31st to agree on an extension.

[Prime Time]

:lmao
Wow, you've convinced me. Talk about having a way with words.

[cd021]

Not crazy about that deal. 16 million per season. 5 years, 70 million would have been a fair deal imo. But on the plus side he'd be a Spur for the next 6 seasons.

[baseline bum]

No. The extension is reported assuming the cap stays the same. That's why Simmons is estimating $80M/5. However, the real numbers depend on the 2015-2016 cap, which will be at least $7 Million higher. That translates into about an extra $1.7 Million between the current 0-6 year max and the one in two seasons.

OK, can tell I haven't read the CBA like I used to. :lol

[Mel_13]

Wait, I was under the impression that they can't negotiate anything this year...am I missing something?

A five year extension has to be for the max.

A 4 year extension can be for less than the max.

Waiting until next summer is a distinct possibility.

[rasuo214]

Pretty sure a 5 year deal would have to be max, so either he gets that, a 4 year deal or the Spurs wait until next off-season when he'll be a RFA (5 year deal wouldn't have to be max).

[cd021]

I'm still under the impression that he isn't a max player but that's just me. He seems very capable of being a second best player on a championship team than the first. Paying in that guesstimated amount seems odd. I think his ranged is much closer to 13-14 per season (65-70 million over 5)

[Chinook]

I'm still under the impression that he isn't a max player but that's just me. He seems very capable of being a second best player on a championship team than the first. Paying in that guesstimated amount seems odd. I think his ranged is much closer to 13-14 per season (65-70 million over 5)

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kawhi get the full five-year max extension. But I'd be disappointed, since the Spurs would absolutely be bidding against themselves by doing so. I hate max extensions for rookie deals. Absolutely hate them. They make no sense.

[Chinook]

Wait, I was under the impression that they can't negotiate anything this year...am I missing something?

I don't believe they can officially agree on a deal until the first of next month. But if the Spurs want to give Kawhi the max, and Leonard wants to remain a Spur and secure his money as soon as possible, then the actual agreement would be a formality.

[gambit1990]

i'm still having trouble trying to figure out what his ceiling is.

[sdsucwsl]

As a Kawhi fan, I hope he doesn't ask and get 5/$80M. Reason, the current big 3 are not making that much. It would be an insult to the entire team for one player to get near max pay and he's not even the #1 option for the Spurs. I say no way. This could potentially F up chemistry on the team for one player to get this much.

[rasuo214]

I'm still under the impression that he isn't a max player but that's just me. He seems very capable of being a second best player on a championship team than the first. Paying in that guesstimated amount seems odd. I think his ranged is much closer to 13-14 per season (65-70 million over 5)

The Spurs have to offer the max for a 5 year deal this off-season. Next off-season they wouldn't have to but then Kawhi would become a RFA. The bottom line is do the Spurs think other teams view Kawhi as a max player because if they do those teams can offer him 4 years for 64 million and I just don't see Kawhi taking a 5 year deal in the 65-70 million range when he could get basically the same amount over 4 years plus flexibility.

[look_at_g_shred]

I'm still under the impression that he isn't a max player but that's just me. He seems very capable of being a second best player on a championship team than the first. Paying in that guesstimated amount seems odd. I think his ranged is much closer to 13-14 per season (65-70 million over 5)
Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

[mystargtr34]

5-$80M would be too steep IMO, unless he really blows up next season and becomes a 16+ PPG scorer in the 'system'.

I love Kawhi but i don't see him ever being first option on a good team, and if you end up giving the max to a 2nd/3rd option, your going to find it tough build a contender. Im think he's worth 4 years-$55M, but will probably get a max due to being over rated slightly.

[DesignatedT]

Spurs don't have much of a choice IMO. He has the perfect mindset and attitude for San Antonio. Just have to pay him the money and hope he continues to develop. The Spurs aren't going to attract another young player like him with the same upside via free agency. They absolutely have to keep him. Waiting till next summer is starting to make more sense though although it would be nice to have a future somewhat locked up once duncan and Manu are gone.

[MeloHype]

He won't get a max contract

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

:lmao holy fucking shit no he wasn't. He was he best player for 3 games in the finals.

[exstatic]

As a Kawhi fan, I hope he doesn't ask and get 5/$80M. Reason, the current big 3 are not making that much. It would be an insult to the entire team for one player to get near max pay and he's not even the #1 option for the Spurs. I say no way. This could potentially F up chemistry on the team for one player to get this much.

If there were jealousies, they would have been apparent in the celebration, which was ALL about Kawhi.

Those guys have ALL made their money and had their time in the spotlight. If Kawhi doesn't land in our laps, this team would have been broken up after the 2011 debacle. He allowed this team to go on for three more years (so far) with the Big Three concept.

[Mel_13]

If there were jealousies, they would have been apparent in the celebration, which was ALL about Kawhi.

Those guys have ALL made their money and had their time in the spotlight. If Kawhi doesn't land in our laps, this team would have been broken up after the 2011 debacle. He allowed this team to go on for three more years (so far) with the Big Three concept.

Yeah, Tim was the 4th highest paid player on the roster in 2012-13. I'm sure he'll be fine with Kawhi getting paid.

[FkLA]

Just noticed I put Bill instead of Greg. :lol

Honestly something very close to Pippen is a realistic ceiling for Kawhi after what he's showed the past two Finals. Not the most explosive scorer but definitely a good enough two way player to warrant the max. Now if the Spurs could get a discount then even better, but if not I'd still be cool with the deal tbh.

[cd021]

The Spurs have to offer the max for a 5 year deal this off-season. Next off-season they wouldn't have to but then Kawhi would become a RFA. The bottom line is do the Spurs think other teams view Kawhi as a max player because if they do those teams can offer him 4 years for 64 million and I just don't see Kawhi taking a 5 year deal in the 65-70 million range when he could get basically the same amount over 4 years plus flexibility.

I forgot that part. Thats a bit of a dilemma. I'd rather have him for 4 years , 64 million.

I think the max 5 years would be over 16 per. Would save a bit per year.

[DesignatedT]

It's still pretty wide open on what his ceiling can be. The Spurs have to keep him though. There's not another option lining up at the door. Certainly not anyone else as young and promising. Letting him walk or second guess wanting to be here would not be wise.

[look_at_g_shred]

:lmao holy fucking shit no he wasn't. He was he best player for 3 games in the finals.
Ok.

[Beaverfuzz]

he's worth anything and everything.

:flag:
:lobt2: :lobt2: :lobt2: :lobt2: :lobt2:

[look_at_g_shred]

Give him what he wants tbh. He's given everything he has to this team since he was drafted.

[cd021]

Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

I'd probably but him at 4th for the season behind Tim, Tony, Manu. Probably still 4th in the postseason (maybe not in that order.

He'd have a big game and them go casper in the next one.

For 3 games, yes, but that's still debatable. Note how Diaw starts game 3, 4, and 5 and he explodes. Diaw made things easier by providing spacing and passing etc. Diaw had a +70 for the season and a +40 in the 3 games he started.

[cd021]

He was he best player for 3 games in the finals.

Yep.

[MeloHype]

He should get a deal similar to Roy Hibbert(4year/58 million) imo

[Mel_13]

If this doesn't get settled this summer, the Spurs will be prepared to match any max offer sheet next summer. They simply can't let him leave.

This isn't like with Patty where you let him go if the price reaches a certain point. With Kawhi, they can try to settle for less than the max, but they have to be ready to pay it if needed.

[Mel_13]

He should get a deal similar to Roy Hibbert(4year/58 million) imo

That was the max that summer. It will about 4/67 next summer.

[SupremeGuy]

Seems a bit steep, but we don't really have a choice. We should of course try to get him to take less but if he doesn't we shouldn't argue.

[Prime Time]

I'd probably but him at 4th for the season behind Tim, Tony, Manu. Probably still 4th in the postseason (maybe not in that order.

He'd have a big game and them go casper in the next one.

For 3 games, yes, but that's still debatable. Note how Diaw starts game 3, 4, and 5 and he explodes. Diaw made things easier by providing spacing and passing etc. Diaw had a +70 for the season and a +40 in the 3 games he started.
Okay, come on, he was better than Manu.

Ginobili had a brilliant first round, but after that he was pretty streaky (not saying Kawhi was any more consistent offensively.) Kawhi had more or less the same offense as Ginobili, but when factoring in their defense - Leonard at least deserves the nod for that.

[Venti Quattro]

He was the Finals MVP but I don't think he's worth the max yet

[Brunodf]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, that was my biggest fear...


He deserved it tbh:whine...

Hopefully that wont make the Spurs pay more than 12m/yr though...

[100%duncan]

Pay him what he wants, I doubt Kawhi thinks he's a max player yet

[Wildcat67]

Wow, you've convinced me. Talk about having a way with words.

It's pretty sad how little some people know what they are watching. Kawhi's ball handling is much improved. Manu even said as much. But if you actually watched it isn't hard to see for yourself. Yet some people insist on displaying their ignorance and claiming to be superior as they do it.

[Venti Quattro]

Pay him what he wants

That attitude got the Lakers entangled in a messy cap situation. Yes Kobe deserved a lot of money for all the contributions as a Laker, but the Lakers ignored that there was a cap.

[100%duncan]

That attitude got the Lakers entangled in a messy cap situation. Yes Kobe deserved a lot of money for all the contributions as a Laker, but the Lakers ignored that there was a cap.

You disregarded the 2nd part of my post though as I doubt Kawhi thinks he's max potential yet. Kobe's deal was bad management too tbh they offered him without even negotiating rigt, cant blame kobe for taking that money :lol

[SupremeGuy]

I really hope we can negotiate a better deal. We're all just taking wild guesses at this point, tbh. No one knows how much Kawhi will ask for yet, probably not even himself.

[Chinook]

You match a max deal, and you offer a five-year near-max deal. You don't offer a max extension.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

You disregarded the 2nd part of my post though as I doubt Kawhi thinks he's max potential yet. Kobe's deal was bad management too tbh they offered him without even negotiating rigt, cant blame kobe for taking that money :lol

Kobe literally admitted in an interview recently that his contract was at least in part a lifetime achievement award :lmao

[jimbo]

Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

& he's also the 4th option on a championship team, it's a whole different story when he's the 1st or 2nd and expected to consistently deliver offense. What he produced in the finals was definitely not his normal. They were the best games of his life.

[100%duncan]

Kobe literally admitted in an interview recently that his contract was at least in part a lifetime achievement award :lmao

:lol fredo

[Aztecfan03]

Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

He was the best player in the finals(but you could argue others were) He wasn't the best player on the team throughout the year or even throughout the playoffs.

[itzsoweezee]

Is it true that only max contracts can exceed five year terms?

[Emperor]

Gotta see how he responds this season after winning Finals MVP. If he can atleast up his stats and become alot more consistent especially in the playoffs i say pay the man what he deserves. Hard to imagine the Spurs giving anyone close to the max who averages 13/6 or anywhere near that.

[polandprzem]

He is not superstar for sakes - would not give him max or anything close to it.

[TheyCallMePro]

Sorry, but this is way too much money. Kawhi has never been the first, second, or even third option on this team. He won Finals MVP, but Ginobili and Diaw had better a PER than him in the Finals. Furthermore, he's just not a superstar. He simply lacks the elite athleticism and ability to dominate the stat sheet night in and night out. Seriously, this is franchise player money. And Kawhi is NOT the franchise. The Big 3 and Pop are.

I like Kawhi, but in the end, he's just a quality role player on a GREAT team. 8-10 million a year would have been perfectly reasonable. 16.5 million a year is not. That kind of money is for the FIRST option Superstar. And anyone calling Kawhi a SUPERstar is just being foolish. I almost want to agree with Durant now. This is getting out of hand. Kawhi has been great for us, but ultimately he's just another glorious piece in the Spurs system. You put Kawhi on the Milwaukee Bucks and things are way different.

[phyzik]

I like Kahwi, but IMHO he still needs another year to prove himself worthy of $16mil a year.... hopefully this is just a rumor.... if not, hopefully Kahwi proves himself worthy for that type of money.

[SupremeGuy]

You match a max deal, and you offer a five-year near-max deal. You don't offer a max extension.This, tbh.

[Brazil]

You match a max deal, and you offer a five-year near-max deal. You don't offer a max extension.

Yup

[TheyCallMePro]

Seriously, Kawhi is still extremely shy on the offensive end. He still passes up too many shots and hesitates too much. The Spurs system relieves him of a lot of the offensive burden. Pop even said he never called a single play on offense for Kawhi this year. I believe it. He's not even close to our first option. We'd run a play first for Danny Green at the end of a game instead of Kawhi--and that's no joke.

5 years/80 million is superstar money. Kawhi is not even close to a superstar. Kawhi should get something like 4 years/48 million. Anything more is ridiculous. And the Spurs need to wait until NEXT summer to extend him, so that the open market can properly determine his value before the Spurs do something stupid and give him something like 5 years/80 million.... I guarantee you no team will pay him that kind of money after being in the Spurs system for the last 4 years. That will in turn make it much easier and more cost-effective for us to sign him, and he can sign a reasonable contract fitting of his status as a very quality role player on a great team.

[rasuo214]

Sorry, but this is way too much money. Kawhi has never been the first, second, or even third option on this team. He won Finals MVP, but Ginobili and Diaw had better a PER than him in the Finals. Furthermore, he's just not a superstar. He simply lacks the elite athleticism and ability to dominate the stat sheet night in and night out. Seriously, this is franchise player money. And Kawhi is NOT the franchise. The Big 3 and Pop are.

I like Kawhi, but in the end, he's just a quality role player on a GREAT team. 8-10 million a year would have been perfectly reasonable. 16.5 million a year is not. That kind of money is for the FIRST option Superstar. And anyone calling Kawhi a SUPERstar is just being foolish. I almost want to agree with Durant now. This is getting out of hand. Kawhi has been great for us, but ultimately he's just another glorious piece in the Spurs system. You put Kawhi on the Milwaukee Bucks and things are way different.

Kawhi's PER was 3rd on the team during the regular season (higher than Parker) he had the highest WS on the team despite missing games due to injury (easily the highest WS/48). That's not to say he deserves max but if you're going to use his PER in the finals to discredit his contribution to the team then it's a little silly because he has had a big impact on this team. He's a much bigger impact player than Splitter (which is where you think he's worth).

Also the Big 3 aren't sticking around forever someone else is going to get paid and it isn't going to be them. If Kawhi was on the Buck he'd be taking a lot more shots and would easily have better numbers probably not as efficient though (something like Luol Deng/Andre Iguodala in his prime type numbers wouldn't surprise me).

[koriwhat]

Sorry, but this is way too much money. Kawhi has never been the first, second, or even third option on this team. He won Finals MVP, but Ginobili and Diaw had better a PER than him in the Finals. Furthermore, he's just not a superstar. He simply lacks the elite athleticism and ability to dominate the stat sheet night in and night out. Seriously, this is franchise player money. And Kawhi is NOT the franchise. The Big 3 and Pop are.

I like Kawhi, but in the end, he's just a quality role player on a GREAT team. 8-10 million a year would have been perfectly reasonable. 16.5 million a year is not. That kind of money is for the FIRST option Superstar. And anyone calling Kawhi a SUPERstar is just being foolish. I almost want to agree with Durant now. This is getting out of hand. Kawhi has been great for us, but ultimately he's just another glorious piece in the Spurs system. You put Kawhi on the Milwaukee Bucks and things are way different.

role players don't drop 3 consecutive 20 pt games in the finals. pop is always preaching that kawhi is next in line to take this team over and i'll definitely agree with pop before i agree with any of you here.

[manufan10]

Since The Betrayal the Spurs might as well trade Kawhi. Not going to win it all next year anyway. Time to unload everyone.

[koriwhat]

plus i was discussing this earlier today with a friend... if lebron is the best in the world, right now, then what's that make his opposition in kawhi? i mean, kawhi came out on top even receiving FMVP and not being glued to the bench back to back during the end of the 4th like lebron was. role player or real deal? the best got beat by the real king.

[DMC]

He got us 5 so I don't really care if he got Kobe money because he's more effective at this stage than Kobe tbh.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

x2... and good lord. x3!

[DMC]

Since The Betrayal the Spurs might as well trade Kawhi. Not going to win it all next year anyway. Time to unload everyone.
What's the betrayal?

[Ron Swanson]

You match a max deal, and you offer a five-year near-max deal. You don't offer a max extension.

Exactly.

[TheDarkSide.]

Like it's been said after the big 3 or even just Duncan and Ginobili are gone nobody will be lining up at that door, shit they never have. Lock him up at all cost and build around him.

[manufan10]

What's the betrayal?

Manu playing international basketball.


it was beautiful while it lasted :cry

best ST couple of days ever

June, 20th 2014 will always be remembered as the betrayal.

:lol

[Nathan89]

If this motherfucker wants the Spurs to win he better not demand the max.

[Uriel]

Kawhi is great, but he does not deserve to be the highest paid player on a championship team full of accomplished veterans.

A salary of 12M/yr is fair for all parties involved. And his salary would be slightly less than that of Tony Parker's.

[FkLA]

They're paying for his potential, not for the 13/6 he put up. Obviously the role he will play a couple of years into his second contract will be dramatically different than the one he plays right now. There's plenty of players that have blown up after their first threes, I'm pretty sure he will be one of them. Pop seems to feel the same way as well which is all that really matters tbh.

[HI-FI]

I said before if he helped us ring, I wouldn't give a shit about his contract. I gotta stay true to that, although it would be great if it was a hometown discount obviously. But ultimately i got faith in RC and Kawhi reaching a good deal.

[Nathan89]

Not being a dick, but he was the best player on a championship team

He was only on a championship team because a shit load of people took less than their market value.

[SnakeBoy]

Heard it on ESPN 1250 earlier today and the guy gave KSAT12 credit. Wouldn't go into effect until the 2015-2016 season obviously. Also mentioned Kawhi will be on national TV (Strahan&Kelly Show) on Wednesday morning.

Pure speculation due to nothing else to talk about. Here is the article others are quoting as their source...
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Leonard-set-for-hefty-pay-raise-5565877.php?cmpid=twitter-premium&t=1f985aa394927fc3fb#/0

In it McDonald just states what the max is not that the Spurs have actually offered it...


Beginning July 1, Leonard is eligible for a contract extension. The maximum the Spurs can offer him, under the NBA's collective bargaining agreement, is a five-year deal worth a tad less than $79 million.

[Chinook]

Pure speculation due to nothing else to talk about. Here is the article others are quoting as their source...
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Leonard-set-for-hefty-pay-raise-5565877.php?cmpid=twitter-premium&t=1f985aa394927fc3fb#/0

In it McDonald just states what the max is not that the Spurs have actually offered it...

And McDonald is incorrect. The max is going to be about $10 Million more than that.

[Leetonidas]

People always talking on here about how Manu's contract was warranted because of his past accomplishments tbh don't see how this shouldn't apply to Leonard, nigga just won a FMVP at 22 years old, give him the fucking max he deserves every penny for this title alone imho

[100%duncan]

Lol kawhi being a role player. Fuck off

[FkLA]

Lol kawhi being a role player. Fuck off

:tu

[bluebellmaniac]

According to Sham's website, the max for this year for a player with 6 yrs experience or less is $13.7M. I assume the max increase is 7.5%.

[Mel_13]

According to Sham's website, the max for this year for a player with 6 yrs experience or less is $13.7M. I assume the max increase is 7.5%.

That's for 2013-14 based on a 58M cap. 2014-15 will be based on a cap of 63M. Kawhi's max salary will be based on 25% of the cap for 2015-16.

[aal04]

Well, the last 3 games is the most expensive showcase in the history of the NBA.

I like him, but he aint worth that much. He was a good roleplayer before the 3 games, but you ignore those 3 games (which granted are huge huge) he isnt 80 million player

[z0sa]

I support the FO's decision here. Pay the man.

I am very curious to see how he progresses forward from here, now that he has been guaranteed big money rolling into his bank account every two weeks.

[Warlord23]

KL was the #3 scorer on the Spurs for the regular season and the playoffs. He's a terrific talent, but is not yet worth the max IMO. The Spurs' system ensures that no single player is indispensable. Also the Spurs' pitch to him will involve a plan of how they can put enough pieces around him to contend for the title. If TP is worth 12.5m per, I think they can agree on something like 14m per year with Kawhi.

[KL2]

:lmao holy fucking shit no he wasn't. He was he best player for 3 games in the finals.


Uh yes he was, he's been the MVP all along.

32-10 with him to start the season, 8-8 when he had his broken hand, and they go on a 19 game winning streak the first game he comes back.

He made Portland quit (TP didn't even have to play in the last game), he was excellent against OKC as well, and could've easily dominated Dallas if TP wasn't in hero mode and Pop drew some plays for him. Manu wasn't that great these playoffs, nor was TP, are people seriously already forgetting?

The MVP just confirmed what I knew all along, he was MVP. The coaching staff knows how great he is, they don't even call plays for the guy, he's pretty much free styling out there, getting whatever he can however he can.

[mystargtr34]

I hope Kawhi becomes the best player in the NBA.. but i just don't see him being able to live up to a max contract. If the Spurs want to contend after Timmy and Manu are gone, they need to leave room for another max level player and have Kawhi as the 2nd/3rd option. I think 4-$55M is fair for both sides.

[gnsf0946]

Tim was hands down our best player this postseason, Kawhi was better the last 3 games.

Don't think he deserves 5/80 but it doesn't matter really since the rumor is bullshit.

[dunkman]

Kawhi isn't a max player but he may eventually be one. I doubt the Spurs will give him a max contract at this point.

[Kidd K]

I love Kawhi, but he is not worth 16 million a year. That's going to handcuff the Spurs' salary cap and he will be struggling to be worth that much.

I realize they want to keep him, but jesus. 16m is a lot.

[Mel_13]

I love Kawhi, but he is not worth 16 million a year. That's going to handcuff the Spurs' salary cap and he will be struggling to be worth that much.

I realize they want to keep him, but jesus. 16m is a lot.

The Kawhi salary discussion is most frequently framed in the wrong terms, IMO.

Is he worth the max? That's the wrong question. It's actually irrelevant when discussing Kawhi's future with the Spurs.

The only question that matters is: Will Kawhi command a max offer sheet if he reaches restricted free agency in the summer of 2015?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the Spurs will have to match that offer, or a get him to sign a five year contract very close the max before he signs the offer sheet. They simply can't let him leave, despite the impact on the payroll.

It's not the same as Patty or Boris where there is a number at which it becomes impossible to pay a market price and you have to let the player leave. Kawhi's maximum market price is 25% of the salary cap for 4 years. If he gets that offer, it must be matched.

[apalisoc_9]

His market value is dependent on what other teams believe he is worth..He might not have the stats, hops etc yet but winning finals MVP skyrockets your value among risk taking GM's..The spurs are going to have to match whatever offer other clubs make, which according to chinook would be around 4/64 which is still 16 million dollars...

[exstatic]

You match a max deal, and you offer a five-year near-max deal. You don't offer a max extension.

You CAN'T offer a 5 year NEAR MAX extension. If it's not MAX, it can only be for four years, and then you're in a Kevin Love "I'm cranky and blowing out of this small market" situation.

[Mel_13]

You CAN'T offer a 5 year NEAR MAX extension. If it's not MAX, it can only be for four years, and then you're in a Kevin Love "I'm cranky and blowing out of this small market" situation.

He knows all that. Read his post in context.

[exstatic]

Is it true that only max contracts can exceed five year terms?

Nothing can exceed five years now. For players on rookie deals, an EXTENSION can only be five years if it is for the MAX. If it's for less, like Kevin Love, it can only be for four years.

[ginobilized]

Um, Kawhi just established himself as the heir apparent to the Spurs throne.

This dude got a rebound and outran Damian Lillard for a dunk, dribbling between two defenders....he can dribble a bit
He guarded Durant and Westbrook and made the series clinching defensive play with his unbelievable block on Westbrook
He awoke in game 3, on the road and threw it down like Dr. J for about 100 mins of nearly flawless basketball....on both ends of the court...all while guarding LeBron and Wade
Kawhi's test drive is over.....he's the shit. Period!

Pay this man and pay him now!

[ontheraise]

5/80is way too much, i'll give him a 5/60 deal

[Mel_13]

5/80is way too much, i'll give him a 5/60 deal

Are you prepared to see him play for another NBA team?

[Kidd K]

The Kawhi salary discussion is most frequently framed in the wrong terms, IMO.

Is he worth the max? That's the wrong question. It's actually irrelevant when discussing Kawhi's future with the Spurs.

The only question that matters is: Will Kawhi command a max offer sheet if he reaches restricted free agency in the summer of 2015?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the Spurs will have to match that offer, or a get him to sign a five year contract very close the max before he signs the offer sheet. They simply can't let him leave, despite the impact on the payroll.

It's not the same as Patty or Boris where there is a number at which it becomes impossible to pay a market price and you have to let the player leave. Kawhi's maximum market price is 25% of the salary cap for 4 years. If he gets that offer, it must be matched.

I don't think he will get offered a max though. Let's look at a similar player production-wise; Luol Deng. He got 12m a year and his contract was considered toxic trade-wise. Even if Kawhi was 33% more valuable than Luol Deng (which he isn't), wouldn't his contract still be considered shitty since Deng's was?

I don't see it happening. Dumb rumors, lame attempt at sabotage. Now it isn't like Leonard can't get better, but getting that good in one year isn't likely. I see your point, but I don't think any team would pay that.

[Chinook]

Nothing can exceed five years now. For players on rookie deals, an EXTENSION can only be five years if it is for the MAX. If it's for less, like Kevin Love, it can only be for four years.

I think he means that only players who can be locked up for more than five years at any time are those on Designated rookie extensions. If the Spurs were to use theirs on Leonard, they'd have Kawhi for the next six years. There's no other situation for which that is true outside of trading for one Designated rookie.

[Mel_13]

I see your point, but I don't think any team would pay that.

That remains to be seen.

My question to you is: If you're RC, and Kawhi brings in a max offer sheet next summer, do you match it or let him walk? (assume that he only improves from year 3 to year 4 by roughly the same amount that he improved from year 2 to year 3)

[exstatic]

That remains to be seen.

My question to you is: If you're RC, and Kawhi brings in a max offer sheet next summer, do you match it or let him walk? (assume that he only improves from year 3 to year 4 by roughly the same amount that he improved from year 2 to year 3)

I don't even think that's a question.

[exstatic]

I don't think he will get offered a max though. Let's look at a similar player production-wise; Luol Deng. He got 12m a year and his contract was considered toxic trade-wise. Even if Kawhi was 33% more valuable than Luol Deng (which he isn't), wouldn't his contract still be considered shitty since Deng's was?

I don't see it happening. Dumb rumors, lame attempt at sabotage. Now it isn't like Leonard can't get better, but getting that good in one year isn't likely. I see your point, but I don't think any team would pay that.
Deng's 12M was probably a MAX deal under whatever salary cap he got it under. He was also less talented than Kawhi on offense. He can't shoot nearly as well, and I'm not sure he even knows what a rocker step is or what the triple threat position is.

[benjirh]

This is quite the conversation. I will throw my 2 cents in. When comparing Leonard's production this year to George's production last year, it is ridiculously close. The biggest difference was that George had a 28% higher usage rate. But that doesn't signify that he is better, just that Indiana needed to rely on him more. The ultimate questions is whether the spurs think that Leonard will continue to function at this level (or improve) with a higher usage rate. The other chance is that running the ball through him more, might decrease his efficiency. Ultimately we won't know that until it happens. But the spurs will have to pay for what they believe will happen. If they think he will help carry a team, then they will give him the max. Teams are allowed two super max deals. So why can't he get one even if he is the #2 guy. If they don't think he will ever be more than just a number 3, good starter, ultimate role player, then they will let him walk for more money or they can try to convince him to stay for less.

I am not saying that Leonard is as good as George, I am undecided. What I am saying is that teams do hand out max contracts based on potential. George got his deal after he put up 16.4/7.3 (per36). So it would not be totally ridiculous to see Leonard get offered that money after a 15.8/7.7 (per36) season. I personally hope the spurs wait one more year, but I will not second guess them if they offer it. They get paid a whole lot more than I do to make these decisions.

And anyone who thinks a max deal would fracture the locker room has not been paying attention to this organization for the past 20 years.

[Aztecfan03]

The Kawhi salary discussion is most frequently framed in the wrong terms, IMO.

Is he worth the max? That's the wrong question. It's actually irrelevant when discussing Kawhi's future with the Spurs.

The only question that matters is: Will Kawhi command a max offer sheet if he reaches restricted free agency in the summer of 2015?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the Spurs will have to match that offer, or a get him to sign a five year contract very close the max before he signs the offer sheet. They simply can't let him leave, despite the impact on the payroll.

It's not the same as Patty or Boris where there is a number at which it becomes impossible to pay a market price and you have to let the player leave. Kawhi's maximum market price is 25% of the salary cap for 4 years. If he gets that offer, it must be matched.

Watch Cuban make a max offer just because he knows Spurs would match.

[Chinook]

In case anyone is wondering, I think Kawhi gets a five-year deal if he makes it to next July. At best, we'll hear rumored offer sheets like we saw with Splitter. But he'll be signed before the moratorium ends. It's in neither Leonard's nor SA's best interest for Kawhi to sign an offer sheet.

Provided he has a good year, I do think $78-80M/5 is about what he'll get from the Spurs if they don't extend him. Teams can offer $70M/4, so the Spurs would get a fifth year at a discount. That'd save them $10-12 Million from not designating him for the five-year extension.

Personally, I'd be happy if that's how it happens. Kawhi gets paid, and the Spurs keep 2015 flexibility.

[r0drig0lac]

Um, Kawhi just established himself as the heir apparent to the Spurs throne.

This dude got a rebound and outran Damian Lillard for a dunk, dribbling between two defenders....he can dribble a bit
He guarded Durant and Westbrook and made the series clinching defensive play with his unbelievable block on Westbrook
He awoke in game 3, on the road and threw it down like Dr. J for about 100 mins of nearly flawless basketball....on both ends of the court...all while guarding LeBron and Wade
Kawhi's test drive is over.....he's the shit. Period!

Pay this man and pay him now!

basically it, the ceiling is unlimited kawhi, and playing in san antonio is so sure he get better and better

[jARS mEsH sEt]

This is quite the conversation. I will throw my 2 cents in. When comparing Leonard's production this year to George's production last year, it is ridiculously close. The biggest difference was that George had a 28% higher usage rate. But that doesn't signify that he is better, just that Indiana needed to rely on him more. The ultimate questions is whether the spurs think that Leonard will continue to function at this level (or improve) with a higher usage rate. The other chance is that running the ball through him more, might decrease his efficiency. Ultimately we won't know that until it happens. But the spurs will have to pay for what they believe will happen. If they think he will help carry a team, then they will give him the max. Teams are allowed two super max deals. So why can't he get one even if he is the #2 guy. If they don't think he will ever be more than just a number 3, good starter, ultimate role player, then they will let him walk for more money or they can try to convince him to stay for less.

I am not saying that Leonard is as good as George, I am undecided. What I am saying is that teams do hand out max contracts based on potential. George got his deal after he put up 16.4/7.3 (per36). So it would not be totally ridiculous to see Leonard get offered that money after a 15.8/7.7 (per36) season. I personally hope the spurs wait one more year, but I will not second guess them if they offer it. They get paid a whole lot more than I do to make these decisions.

And anyone who thinks a max deal would fracture the locker room has not been paying attention to this organization for the past 20 years.

And I think Paul George's contract is absolutely horrendous. The guy is nowhere near being a superstar.

[look_at_g_shred]

All you have to do is look at our record with him and then look at the glaring contrast to the record without him. 3 straight WCF appearances and 2 straight Final's appearances. When is the last time that's happened? Oh yeah....never. But...but...but he's not worth it :lol If we lose Kawhi that's it. There is not going to be another player like him that will play for the spurs in the near future. Pay him.

[mavsfan1000]

Sounds about right.

[Mugen]

There are worse ways to spend a max extension than a 22yo terrific two way player coming off a Finals MVP tbh.

[superbigtime]

Dayum that's a huge contract.

[G-Dawgg]

Kawhi hasn't put up the numbers to warrant that kind of money. He had a good playoff run and won finals MVP, but that isn't enough. His numbers on the year would state otherwise. He's shown flashes of his potential during this finals, but seriously? The guy JUST set his career high of 29 points in those same finals. I feel Indiana overpaid Paul George and because Kawhi is a similar type player in terms of potential and numbers, unfortunately he'll probably get comparable money..

[TheGreatYacht]

Waaaaaaaaaay too much...

Kawhi 16M
Splitter 10M
Parker 12M
Diaw 5M
Mills 5M
Green 5M

No star wants to come to SA and play for chump change :lol Trade Splitter, and it's perfect

[boutons_deux]

too much. something quite a bit smaller would be fine, but I expect other teams, more desperate + deeper pockets than the Spurs, will bid him up.

[Kidd K]

That remains to be seen.

My question to you is: If you're RC, and Kawhi brings in a max offer sheet next summer, do you match it or let him walk? (assume that he only improves from year 3 to year 4 by roughly the same amount that he improved from year 2 to year 3)

We have to see what the improvement is. Thus far, he isn't worth that particular pricetag. You're pretty much asking "if he improves a lot, will he be worth more?". Well I mean, yeah. The question is: Is he going to? Or just improve a bit more? It's a tough call, but right now I'm having a lot of trouble believing he's worth maximum deal, or near max deal

[Mel_13]

We have to see what the improvement is. Thus far, he isn't worth that particular pricetag. You're pretty much asking "if he improves a lot, will he be worth more?". Well I mean, yeah. The question is: Is he going to? Or just improve a bit more? It's a tough call, but right now I'm having a lot of trouble believing he's worth maximum deal, or near max deal

Actually, that's not what I said, but let's not quibble over semantics or perceived meanings.

If he's just slightly better a year from now than he is today and he brings in a max offer sheet, do you match or do you let him walk?

[ontheraise]

if 12mil a year means he'll have a team to win more rings he'll stay, maybe 5 year is too long to cash in a max contract than give him a 4/50 and when he hit 26 and all the old dude are retired you can afford him a max contract

[jag]

it was beautiful while it lasted :cry

best ST couple of days ever

June, 20th 2014 will always be remembered as the betrayal.

:lol

[exstatic]

if 12mil a year means he'll have a team to win more rings he'll stay, maybe 5 year is too long to cash in a max contract than give him a 4/50 and when he hit 26 and all the old dude are retired you can afford him a max contract

You can't just force him to take less. He won't do it, hit FA next summer, and THEN you'll have to pay him. Better to just bite the bullet, smile, act like it's your idea instead of marketplace forces, and do it now.

I'd actually say there's a 90% chance that if Tim even comes back, that he and Manu both roll of next summer before this deal even kicks in.

[spurraider21]

Any deal Kawhi signs won't kick in until the big 3 all have their contracts expire so I really don't care if he signs a max

[Spur|n|Austin]

Spurs must see a lot of offensive potential to be throwing around that kind of money. I can't recall the last time a 22yr old got offered that much cash for his defense alone.

Of course I think Kawhi could be a 22-25ppg scorer at his prime, so I see no issue here.

did you watch the finals? Dude averaged almost 18 a game and 10 rebounds.

[PingPong]

16 million/year for a f***g role player? If it happens, there goes the chemistry. Parker won't pass th ball to Kawhi once in the season.

[KL2]

People already forgetting Leonard carried SA through the regular season, they forget how this team looked like utter shit without him :lmao, they forget the very first game he came back SA went on that 19 game winning streak after going 8-8 without him. They forget this team's epic failures prior to him being drafted. In the words on Roy Jones Jr., Y'all must've forgot! A role player does not shoot 60% from the field in a variety of ways, without a SINGLE play called for him, average 18, and play elite defense.

This is a smart investment, he is an EXCITING AMERICAN player. When was the last time SA had that, D-Rob?

-Increased tv ratings leads to bigger sponsors, more fans, more $$$, people will tune into see Leonard Vs "insert name here"
-Deep playoff runs (which Leonard has helped SA with since his arrival) more $$$
-Apparel sales, jerseys, merchandise etc.
-A winning team with an exciting star-increased ticket sales
-Leonard's signed with Jordan, don't be surprised if he comes out with his own shoes and really explodes on the scene.

Thats just off the top of my head.

[Prime Time]

-Increased tv ratings leads to bigger sponsors, more fans, more $$$, people will tune into see Leonard Vs "insert name here"
-Deep playoff runs (which Leonard has helped SA with since his arrival) more $$$
-Apparel sales, jerseys, merchandise etc.
-A winning team with an exciting star-increased ticket sales
-Leonard's signed with Jordan, don't be surprised if he comes out with his own shoes and really explodes on the scene.

http://i.imgur.com/AGCvd9T.png

[benjirh]

Here are your max contract players:

• Joe Johnson
• Chris Paul
• Deron Williams,
• Blake Griffin
• Derrick Rose
• Kevin Durant
• Dwight Howard
• Rudy Gay
• James Harden
• Russell Westbrook
• Carmelo Anthony
• Kevin Love
• Eric Gordon
• Roy Hibbert
• Marc Gasol
• John Wall

I am not sure why people like to designate superstar versus star, but the it boils down to how much a team feels like they need to spend to keep a guy who is critical to their organization. The downside is that teams in smaller markets tend to spend it on guys who are not the top tier but who are difference makers because they know that they wont get the "superstars". I never said George deserved his contract and I never said Leonard deserved it either. But what I did say is that he is critical to this team and if he walks just because you don't want to match a max offer from another team, then good luck pulling in another max player or 10mil players that will fit as well with this team.

And Parker will pass him the ball. Why? Because Parker does not care how much he is getting paid and Duncan and Pop would chew him a new one. Parker wants to win. And if he is really willing to tank this team because Leonard makes more then they won't re-sign him when his contract is up at the end of the year. But please stop making ridiculous statements.

[benjirh]

Monta Ellis recieved a contract for 8+ last year. Is Leonard worth more than him?
Andre Iguodala received a contract for 12+. Is Leonard (7 years younger) worth more than him?
Josh Smith received a contract for 13+.

I would take Leonard over all three and while I may not want to pay him 16 a year, he at least gets Iguodala money and if you are already paying him 12 million a year, paying the extra 3-4 over 5 years is not going to break you. Not if it is a guy that you feel will be a difference maker for your team. And Leonard is a difference maker.

[exstatic]

The funniest part of this thread is all of the posters saying "Well, Iiiii don't think he's worth it...". I hate to break it to you, but that matters for shit. The only thing that matters is "what can he get on the open market?". That's all. That's it. He doesn't have to sign anything this year. He plays next year on the rookie 4th year salary, and hits the open market. He gets a MAX offer, and Spurs have to match. He's a top 2 or 3 player of his draft. They CANNOT let him walk out the door.

The Spurs know all of this. If this offer IS in fact being worked, that's why. End of story.

[therealtruth]

Spurs must see a lot of offensive potential to be throwing around that kind of money. I can't recall the last time a 22yr old got offered that much cash for his defense alone.

Of course I think Kawhi could be a 22-25ppg scorer at his prime, so I see no issue here.

Not by playing under 30mpg like Pop likes to do.

[exstatic]

Not by playing under 30mpg like Pop likes to do.

Pop did that this year to prevent the return of his 2013 tendonitis. I'm not sure he would be monitored like that again.

[Gummi Clutch]

that is a bit too much, tbh...but the guy is only 22

[Prime Time]

Not by playing under 30mpg like Pop likes to do.
He's 22, I'd prefer it like this over him being thrown into the fire. Earn your stripes.

[mowgli]

Nate Silver recently addressed the question of a max extension for a player coming off his rookie contract. Obviously, it's in the team's best interests to pay max salary while receiving max value, but how can a team project whether a player's development worth the massive price tag and still come out ahead?

It's a really good read, so take a look for yourself
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-sign-an-nba-player-to-the-max/

His takeaway is this:


Has your guy made an All-NBA team, or would it have been entirely reasonable for him to do so? Then offer him the max extension. If not, then don’t.

If it’s a close call, you might consider the player’s age, his injury history, his advanced defensive metrics, his leadership abilities, positional scarcity, your cap flexibility or whatever else pleases you.

Kawhi's case is confounded by his development within a system that does not necessarily adapt to his strengths, yet the man was just crowned the best player in the NBA Finals going toe-to-toe with Lebron. At this point in time, his deserving a max contract can be argued for and against with equal validity. If the Spurs are confident that Leonard's development continues on the same tangent as it has since he joined the league, I would give it to him because another team will certainly do the same.

[therealtruth]

Pop did that this year to prevent the return of his 2013 tendonitis. I'm not sure he would be monitored like that again.

If Pop's strategy works like it did this year and results in a deeper more reliable bench and fresher team come playoff time I'm all for it. Maybe we can squeeze a couple more LOB till TD hangs it up.

[Kidd K]

Actually, that's not what I said, but let's not quibble over semantics or perceived meanings.

If he's just slightly better a year from now than he is today and he brings in a max offer sheet, do you match or do you let him walk?

I don't see why we should match under those circumstances. He is a fine player, but we don't suddenly owe him significantly more than he's worth because he played well in 3 Finals games and two WCF games. We need to see what he can do with more burden, and see him not wilt under the pressure before he can be worth that much.

I definitely want to keep Kawhi. . .just not for the max. 12-12.5m is fair imo.

[Richie]

I don't see why we should match under those circumstances. He is a fine player, but we don't suddenly owe him significantly more than he's worth because he played well in 3 Finals games and two WCF games. We need to see what he can do with more burden, and see him not wilt under the pressure before he can be worth that much.

I definitely want to keep Kawhi. . .just not for the max. 12-12.5m is fair imo.

We can't let him go. Even if demands the max we have to pay it, and if we decide he is too expensive we could always trade him. You can't let an asset like Kawhi leave for nothing over ~$2m/yr

[FkLA]

$12 mill per is fair according to what? The market dictates what he should get paid, not the contracts on the team. Batum got that much last year and he hasn't done the stuff Kawhi has on the big stage.

Also with guys leaving college early (which Kawhi did) part of what goes into determining their second contract is potential. You have to assume a 22 year old has nowhere to go but up tbh.

[jesterbobman]

In case anyone is wondering, I think Kawhi gets a five-year deal if he makes it to next July. At best, we'll hear rumored offer sheets like we saw with Splitter. But he'll be signed before the moratorium ends. It's in neither Leonard's nor SA's best interest for Kawhi to sign an offer sheet.

Provided he has a good year, I do think $78-80M/5 is about what he'll get from the Spurs if they don't extend him. Teams can offer $70M/4, so the Spurs would get a fifth year at a discount. That'd save them $10-12 Million from not designating him for the five-year extension.

Personally, I'd be happy if that's how it happens. Kawhi gets paid, and the Spurs keep 2015 flexibility.

I'm in agreement, though I(we) have been banging the drum in think tank for a while. If you wait to extend/re-sign until after the next season, then the Spurs approach free agency with Kawhi on his QO, which will be way less than his first year. $10m in extra space might be the difference between Kevin Love and Brandon Bass. Worth it for Kawhi to wait. I think PATFO are smart enough to work this out and explain it to Kawhi and his/Jeff Ayres' agent (http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/Mitch-Frankel-217/).

[benjirh]

I definitely want to keep Kawhi. . .just not for the max. 12-12.5m is fair imo.

Like FkLA stated, Batum got that amount in 2012 after this season: 59g \ 30.4min \ .451 fg \ .391 3p \ .836ft \ 4.6reb \ 1.4ast \ 1.0stl \ 1.0blk \ 1.5tov \ 1.8fl \ 13.9pts \ 17.3per \ 20.5usg \ 4.8WS \ 16 total PO games \ 23 yo

Looks about the same for me but the difference being that I see Kawhi having a higher ceiling and a higher cap number. Going back in history, Gino got a nice contract after his 03/04 season, so locking up guys early is in line with what the spurs do as long as it is for a guy they see as critical to their development.

[Ice009]

Going back in history, Gino got a nice contract after his 03/04 season, so locking up guys early is in line with what the spurs do as long as it is for a guy they see as critical to their development.

The Spurs didn't lock up Manu early, they let him test free agency to see what his market value was. Pop also went to Kobe's house to talk to him and see if he was interested in leaving LA.

[benjirh]

The Spurs didn't lock up Manu early, they let him test free agency to see what his market value was. Pop also went to Kobe's house to talk to him and see if he was interested in leaving LA.

Sorry, I meant that they gave him a contract before his numbers skyrocketed (early in his career, not early in his contract). His 6yr/54 million was large at that time period for a 26yr old with only 2 years of stats. You are right, it wasn't an extension but a FA offer. I was more talking to the fact of people saying that Leonard hasn't put up the numbers to deserve the contract and while I agree, I think the spurs will somewhat pay on potential in regards to Leonard much like they did with Gino.

[exstatic]

I don't see why we should match under those circumstances. He is a fine player, but we don't suddenly owe him significantly more than he's worth because he played well in 3 Finals games and two WCF games. We need to see what he can do with more burden, and see him not wilt under the pressure before he can be worth that much.

I definitely want to keep Kawhi. . .just not for the max. 12-12.5m is fair imo.

You'd make a fine GM for OKC. :lol :rollin

Kawhi is in the top 20 players for win shares in the last TEN DRAFTS.

[Mel_13]

I don't see why we should match under those circumstances. He is a fine player, but we don't suddenly owe him significantly more than he's worth because he played well in 3 Finals games and two WCF games. We need to see what he can do with more burden, and see him not wilt under the pressure before he can be worth that much.

I definitely want to keep Kawhi. . .just not for the max. 12-12.5m is fair imo.

Fair enough.

We completely disagree, but that's makes for a good discussion.

[Mel_13]

The Spurs didn't lock up Manu early, they let him test free agency to see what his market value was. Pop also went to Kobe's house to talk to him and see if he was interested in leaving LA.

They locked Manu up as early as they possibly could under the rules. He was a restricted free agent in 2004 and they signed him before he signed an offer sheet with another club. He was not eligible for an extension in the summer of 2003.

I absolutely do not recall the Pop-Kobe story from 2004. I remember Kobe flirting with the Clippers, but not with the Spurs. Do you have any links to reports from that time? Does anyone else recall this? Not that important, just curious.

[Kidd K]

Fair enough.

We completely disagree, but that's makes for a good discussion.

I appreciate the civility man. Whatever happens, I want to keep the guy. I'm just hoping it doesn't have to be for the absolute maximum allowable amount lol. Guess we'll see what happens. In a perfect world, he'll get paid for less than max and still be very happy. I'm all for the future being locked up, but honestly I've always had the "When Tim Duncan retires. . ." worry in regards to our team's future. :\ We're gonna need more than Kawhi Leonard going forward. Our best players (besides him, Green, and Mills who may be gone), will prolly be retired by time his next deal expires. Timmy and Manu will be gone in a year or two. :(



Like FkLA stated, Batum got that amount in 2012 after this season: 59g \ 30.4min \ .451 fg \ .391 3p \ .836ft \ 4.6reb \ 1.4ast \ 1.0stl \ 1.0blk \ 1.5tov \ 1.8fl \ 13.9pts \ 17.3per \ 20.5usg \ 4.8WS \ 16 total PO games \ 23 yo

Looks about the same for me but the difference being that I see Kawhi having a higher ceiling and a higher cap number. Going back in history, Gino got a nice contract after his 03/04 season, so locking up guys early is in line with what the spurs do as long as it is for a guy they see as critical to their development.

Batum is overpaid though, but you make a good point about rewarded Spurs early on in their careers. I could see the argument for paying well early and hoping for a discount later. Odds are definitely higher to get a discount later as well as to keep guys. A max deal is just a fuckton. . .




We can't let him go. Even if demands the max we have to pay it, and if we decide he is too expensive we could always trade him. You can't let an asset like Kawhi leave for nothing over ~$2m/yr

Well it'd be more like 4-5m a year, but I understand.

[apalisoc_9]

kidd K :lmao

[benjirh]

Batum is overpaid though, but you make a good point about rewarded Spurs early on in their careers. I could see the argument for paying well early and hoping for a discount later. Odds are definitely higher to get a discount later as well as to keep guys. A max deal is just a fuckton. . .
.

I agree with you that I would love to have him play for less than the max. I just don't know that we can rely on that at this point. And yes Batum might be overpaid, but partly that is because we have hindsight. If he kept improving as what people thought, his contract might not look that bad. In the end, I am with you and hope we get him in the 11-13 range. I just don't know if it is possible and I am not willing to let him walk. Just to be clear, I hope he goes into FA and he tests the market and realizes that he wants to stay on the spurs with a fair contract.

[TheGreatYacht]

Leonard 16M
Splitter 10M
Diaw probably 10M
Parker probably 14M
Mills probably 7M

:lmao PATFO paying everybody :lol

[DesignatedT]

Leonard 16M
Splitter 10M
Diaw probably 10M
Parker probably 14M
Mills probably 7M

:lmao PATFO paying everybody :lol

Dude you're trying way too hard. You look like an idiot. Just stop.

[TheGreatYacht]

Dude you're trying way too hard. You look like an idiot. Just stop.
That's what people on here are suggesting you retard. Smd

[benjirh]

Leonard 16M
Splitter 10M
Diaw probably 10M
Parker probably 14M
Mills probably 7M

Splitter isn't making 10mil from here on out. 9.25,8.5,8.25
Who said that we are paying Diaw 10m and Mills 7m? I am more expecting 3-5 for each of them.
And it will be interesting to see what Parker wants after this year. And while I would hope that it isnt 14, He might have one more "large" contract in him.

So, yes, Leonard might get 16. Is that a deal breaker for you? Is 14 better? What about 12? I think you can say you want less, but is there a buffer that you are willing to pay to make sure that he stays?

[wildchild]

It's crazy to say Leonard deserves or not the max only for three good games in the Finals, when most people forget his last playoffs and his great games of 2013 Finals.
Obviously is the potencial but the kid showed more than a good sign -and three games- these years.

He continues to improve, he adds new weapons to his offensive game every season, post ups, drives, floaters, transition pull-up 3, etc, the versatility of his offensive game gives a lot of options. All these things and still maintain his defense at elite level.

What's Leonard's worth for other teams? He can make an immediate and big impact in other teams?.

Just imagine...
He plays for the Clips in the Game 6 against the OKC and strip-steal on Westbrook in last seconds...could be the Next Big3 Paul-Griffin-Leonard?
He's playing for the Hawks/Wizards attacking Paul George successful and contain him on the other end...

He's worth more to the Spurs than he would be worth to any other team? How can improve teams like the Thunder or the Clippers having Leonard instead of Sepholosha or Barnes?
How can improve an Eastern Conference contender with Leonard in their roster?
Or just how can improve a rebuilding and young team with Leonard?

So when people talking about Leonard's contract, it's not only about our FO, it's about other teams, too.

Leonard said he'll work out extension "I'm leaving that to my agent, and I'm sure they'll come out with a great understanding and a deal."
Why he should wait after 2015? For another max player? I've my doubts...all know when Tim decides to retire, Pop would go, too. Why a max player, who isn't a creation of the Spurs culture like Leonard is, want to play in a small market like San Antonio when the Spurs lose their two biggest winning factors, Pop and Tim?

If the Spurs let Leonard get into restricted FA, other teams give him a max offer sheet, and they'll need match. Why antagonize Leonard forcing him to wait another year when he want the extension? Just keep him now -even if is more expensive- and hope he can meet the expectations.

[hooperflash]

Just imagine...
He plays for the Clips in the Game 6 against the OKC and strip-steal on Westbrook in last seconds...could be the Next Big3 Paul-Griffin-Leonard?

Impossible, they had the great Danny Granger for that.. KL couldn't sniff ANY playing time over that legend /blue

[wildchild]

Impossible, they had the great Danny Granger for that.. KL couldn't sniff ANY playing time over that legend /blue

Agree. Impossible to match Granger magnificence, so...we won't see some Paul-Leonard lobs??!!!

[Dizzle]

KIDD K fakest spurs fan on this board. eat a dick, pal.

[cjw]

If the Spurs let Leonard get into restricted FA, other teams give him a max offer sheet, and they'll need match. Why antagonize Leonard forcing him to wait another year when he want the extension? Just keep him now -even if is more expensive- and hope he can meet the expectations.

It's never a guarantee that an offer sheet gets handed out, particularly if there are several guys on the FA market. That offer sheet eats up cap space for a valuable 72 hours - particularly if you KNOW the other team will match it. I say why not let it play out and see if waiting to sign him can open up another signing next offseason.

[FireMicoHalili]

That's what people on here are suggesting you retard. Smd
It's true though. Plus facts on your "jokes" aren't even accurate.

[Agloco]

For those who are saying nay to giving Kwahi the max, what's your alternative?







<crickets chirping>

[Baam]

We can't let him go. Even if demands the max we have to pay it, and if we decide he is too expensive we could always trade him. You can't let an asset like Kawhi leave for nothing over ~$2m/yr

No you only have to give him the max if another team offers him that, not if he asks for it...

[Baam]

For those who are saying nay to giving Kwahi the max, what's your alternative?







<crickets chirping>

The alternative is to entend him early at a discount or just wait and let another team set his value next season...

[exstatic]

The alternative is to entend him early at a discount or just wait and let another team set his value next season...

You can't just "extend him early at a discount". That is a contract I'm SURE he doesn't sign. Why would he? TEAMS WILL BE LINING UP TO MAX HIM OUT. Why can't you figure this out?

[wildchild]

It's never a guarantee that an offer sheet gets handed out, particularly if there are several guys on the FA market. That offer sheet eats up cap space for a valuable 72 hours - particularly if you KNOW the other team will match it. I say why not let it play out and see if waiting to sign him can open up another signing next offseason.

I know, but can see the best and worst-case scenarios, the worst for the Spurs? it isn't the extension for the max.
After the negotiations go nowhere, the speculation'll mess up the relationship between the player/his agent and the team, because he's absolutely convinced that he earns the extension like other young players in the league last years, and that's why he said what he said about the contract.
Next offseason the team'll match any offer for him, but don't expect it to be the same good relationship what it once was. He's too young and maybe can't put disappointment behind him, maybe he can't forget team's argument about he doesn't deserve the contract extension he requested -even if he gets the max after they match-.

Chemistry and good relationship are two invaluable intangible assets.

[Baam]

You can't just "extend him early at a discount". That is a contract I'm SURE he doesn't sign. Why would he? TEAMS WILL BE LINING UP TO MAX HIM OUT. Why can't you figure this out?

Dunno man unlike you I don't have a cristal ball and don't see into the future but next year is gonna be a huge year for UFAs let alone RFAs so really I wouldn't be the house on that but that's just me... Especially if he's back to his regular season production...

Teams that have the ability to give the max look for a first option or a defensive anchor in priority imo...

Besides there's plenty of reasons to agree to an early extension, protects him from a freak injury or a down year...

[Chinook]

You can't just "extend him early at a discount". That is a contract I'm SURE he doesn't sign. Why would he? TEAMS WILL BE LINING UP TO MAX HIM OUT. Why can't you figure this out?

The only reason to ever extend a rookie is to get him at a discount (ignoring attempts to sooth fragile egos and other meta things). The extension should always be for less than the max so that both parties have incentive to agree to it. In this case, extending Kawhi benefits him by guaranteeing him money earlier. He wouldn't have to worry about having a poor season next year and lowering his value or getting injured and losing altogether. But that security has to come at a cost, which takes the form of the Spurs saving a bit of salary.

Essentially, if Kawhi will only sign a max extension, then the Spurs shouldn't offer an extension at all. Leonard has to leverage to force a max deal, and he'd absorb all the risk by playing out next year. Sure, other teams may offer max offer sheets, but then the Spurs could just match those and still save a few million bucks over giving him the extension.

[wildchild]

Teams that have the ability to give the max look for a first option or a defensive anchor in priority imo...

These teams are looking for the rare and extremely valuable piece they need to win a title, because they've already that player/first option, they want to complete the next Big duo or Big 3.

If Lebron and Durant are the biggest threats to any team in the league, it's probable that the guy who can successful play against them gets a max contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

As great as Kawhi's been, I'd be surprised if both sides agreed to the max for Leonard.

In the past 18 years the Spurs have only dished out the max one time, and that was to Tim Duncan.

They've paid Manu and Tony in the past handsomely without using the max, I expect the same type of deal for Leonard (5 yr 55-65 mil). IMO

[benjirh]

Example A of how the market dictates a player's "worth":

Jodie Meeks. 3 years - 19+mil

Last Year: 33.2mpg / .463 fg / .401 3p / .857 ft / 2.5reb / 1.8ast / 1.4stl / 0.1blk / 1.4tov / 1.5pf / 15.7ppg / 19.1usg / 112 ortg / 113 drtg / .084 ws48 / 25-52 record
Prev 3 Yrs: 24.6mpg / .407 fg / .373 3p / .897 ft / 2.3reb / 0.9ast / 0.7stl / 0.1blk / 0.6tov / 1.3pf / 8.9ppg / 15.9usg / 113 ortg / 107 drtg / .109 ws48 / 120-98 rec

Neither line looks like it is worth at least 6 million dollars a year.

If so Patty's line is going to bring in crazy money:
18.9mpg / .464 fg / .425 3p / .890 ft / 2.1reb / 1.8ast / 0.8stl / 0.1blk / 0.8 tov / 1.4pf / 10.2ppg / 22.6usg / 115 ortg / 104 drtg / .175 ws48 / 62-19 record / plus Patty is a year younger and played more playoff minutes this year than meeks has played his whole career.

So if someone will pay a player worse than Mills more than 6 million, what do you think they will offer Leonard. I think the Parson's deal will be the ultimate comparison for what we should be expecting for Leonard. Because it will speak to the market for a two way wing player who can play small-ball PF.

[exstatic]

Example A of how the market dictates a player's "worth":

Jodie Meeks. 3 years - 19+mil

Last Year: 33.2mpg / .463 fg / .401 3p / .857 ft / 2.5reb / 1.8ast / 1.4stl / 0.1blk / 1.4tov / 1.5pf / 15.7ppg / 19.1usg / 112 ortg / 113 drtg / .084 ws48 / 25-52 record
Prev 3 Yrs: 24.6mpg / .407 fg / .373 3p / .897 ft / 2.3reb / 0.9ast / 0.7stl / 0.1blk / 0.6tov / 1.3pf / 8.9ppg / 15.9usg / 113 ortg / 107 drtg / .109 ws48 / 120-98 rec

Neither line looks like it is worth at least 6 million dollars a year.

If so Patty's line is going to bring in crazy money:
18.9mpg / .464 fg / .425 3p / .890 ft / 2.1reb / 1.8ast / 0.8stl / 0.1blk / 0.8 tov / 1.4pf / 10.2ppg / 22.6usg / 115 ortg / 104 drtg / .175 ws48 / 62-19 record / plus Patty is a year younger and played more playoff minutes this year than meeks has played his whole career.

So if someone will pay a player worse than Mills more than 6 million, what do you think they will offer Leonard. I think the Parson's deal will be the ultimate comparison for what we should be expecting for Leonard. Because it will speak to the market for a two way wing player who can play small-ball PF.
:lol:rollin Parsons only plays one way ball. Defense is that annoying time between running plays.

[TheGoldStandard]

Kawhi seems like a loyal guy, he'll stay but it's gonna cost some serious cash.

[baseline bum]

You can't just "extend him early at a discount". That is a contract I'm SURE he doesn't sign. Why would he? TEAMS WILL BE LINING UP TO MAX HIM OUT. Why can't you figure this out?

Pretty much this.

[benjirh]

I would disagree. I don't think he is great but I think he puts in the effort and holds his own. I wasn't comparing his D to Leonards, but in terms of how he compares to other wings, I personally think he plays better D. Either way, do you think I am wrong in stating that his salary numbers should be a strong indication of what we should expect for Leonard. If Parsons is making 12-14, then there is no way that Leonard doesn't get a max offer from someone. But if Parsons rakes in more like 8-10 then we can hope for a smaller payday with Leonard.

[benjirh]

Parsons only plays one way ball. Defense is that annoying time between running plays.
I would disagree. I don't think he is great but I think he puts in the effort and holds his own. I wasn't comparing his D to Leonards, but in terms of how he compares to other wings, I personally think he plays better D.

Either way, do you think I am wrong in stating that his salary numbers should be a strong indication of what we should expect for Leonard. If Parsons is making 12-14, then there is no way that Leonard doesn't get a max offer from someone. But if Parsons rakes in more like 8-10 then we can hope for a smaller payday with Leonard.

[exstatic]

I would disagree. I don't think he is great but I think he puts in the effort and holds his own. I wasn't comparing his D to Leonards, but in terms of how he compares to other wings, I personally think he plays better D. Either way, do you think I am wrong in stating that his salary numbers should be a strong indication of what we should expect for Leonard. If Parsons is making 12-14, then there is no way that Leonard doesn't get a max offer from someone. But if Parsons rakes in more like 8-10 then we can hope for a smaller payday with Leonard.
No, because Leonard actually IS a two way player. He can command more than Parsons.

[Mel_13]

486736670599806976

[benefactor]

:lol maxing out Gordon Hayward
:lol "the players haven't felt enough pain"

[Chinook]

486736670599806976

Yeah. So there's no reason to even ask about an extension. Leonard has to know he's getting the max next season.

[Mel_13]

Yeah. So there's no reason to even ask about an extension. Leonard has to know he's getting the max next season.

Shorter contracts and lower pay raises from the 2011 CBA combined with rising revenue and the corresponding rising salary cap. Those factors are having their predictable effects on the FA market.

Anyone arguing that Kawhi will not command the max just has their head in the sand.

[Chinook]

Shorter contracts and lower pay raises from the 2011 CBA combined with rising revenue and the corresponding rising salary cap. Those factors are having their predictable effects on the FA market.

Anyone arguing that Kawhi will not command the max just has their head in the sand.

If Stephenson hadn't done all those stupid things during the ECF, he'd probably getting maxed out as well. And that's with all his other flaws.

[Mel_13]

If Stephenson hadn't done all those stupid things during the ECF, he'd probably getting maxed out as well. And that's with all his other flaws.

No doubt about it.

[Baam]

Give me Stevenson at 10M/y, it's gonna be such a bargain compared to Hayward...

Regarding Kawhi who knows, it's likely someone could extend a max offer if only to fuck with the Spurs but you never know... You roll the dice and see if you can bluff your way to something a bit more reasonable, Utah could have pulled it off if Charlotte thought they had a chance with the higher profile guys... Besides Kawhi has missed a whole lot of games so far, could get Millsed if he doesn't agree to an early extension at a small discount.

Dallas needs youth and two way players, I hope they go after Stevenson is only to see what Carlisle could do with him...

[Mel_13]

Give me Stevenson at 10M/y, it's gonna be such a bargain compared to Hayward...

Regarding Kawhi who knows, it's likely someone could extend a max offer if only to fuck with the Spurs but you never know... You roll the dice and see if you can bluff your way to something a bit more reasonable, Utah could have pulled it off if Charlotte thought they had a chance with the higher profile guys... Besides Kawhi has missed a whole lot of games so far, could get Millsed if he doesn't agree to an early extension at a small discount.

Head in sand.

[Baam]

Head in sand.

Is Parker getting the max?

[Mel_13]

Is Parker getting the max?

:lol

Your go to move. The irrelevant comparison.

[Baam]

I think both players are getting the same money tbh, if it's Leonard's max so be it, but a little less would be great...

[Baam]

Btw you predicted that teams wouldn't offer Diaw more than the MLE :lmao so fuck off with know-it-all bs.

[Mel_13]

if it's Leonard's max so be it.

accepting reality, a good first step...

[benefactor]

Head in sand.
I stopped reading at 10M/y.

[benefactor]

And pay Leonard the max. I'm all for it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Btw you predicted that teams wouldn't offer Diaw more than the MLE :lmao so fuck off with know-it-all bs.

Which teams offered him more than the MLE? Links?

[Mel_13]

Btw you predicted that teams wouldn't offer Diaw more than the MLE :lmao so fuck off with know-it-all bs.

No. I predicted that Diaw would sign for 3/21 weeks ago.

You, OTOH, were wrong in a spectacular way about Mills and you already can see how wrong you were about Leonard.

[jhfenton]

Which teams offered him more than the MLE? Links?

The Spurs.

[Chinook]

Baam I've been wondering something: How is your handle pronounced? Is it like 'bomb', like 'bam', or something else?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Spurs.

Which was exactly the point - they'd offer him just above the MLE to keep him off the market, because no one else would offer more than the MLE...

[Baam]

Mel is like a homeless version of Bruno tbh :lol, guy needs to pat himself on the back every 2 posts... And when he's wrong he gets all butthurt :lol...

You were wrong about Diaw deal with it already :sleep... Regarding Mills I said paying him more than the min not to play was stupid as hell and I stand by it, especially since it's a shoulder injury and his main skill on the court is shooting.

[jhfenton]

Which was exactly the point - they'd offer him just above the MLE to keep him off the market, because no one else would offer more than the MLE...

Because the Spurs have a pattern of paying above-market rates for players.

[Chinook]

Mel is like a homeless version of Bruno tbh :lol, guy needs to pat himself on the back every 2 posts... And when he's wrong he gets all butthurt :lol...

You were wrong about Diaw deal with it already :sleep... Regarding Mills I said paying him more than the min not to play was stupid as hell and I stand by it, especially since it's a shoulder injury and his main skill on the court is shooting.

I think you're confusing Mel with Richie, who always seems to have a low estimate for contracts, save Mills, for whom he was unfortunately right on the money.

[Mel_13]

Mel is like a homeless version of Bruno tbh :lol, guy needs to pat himself on the back every 2 posts... And when he's wrong he gets all butthurt :lol...

You were wrong about Diaw deal with it already :sleep... Regarding Mills I said paying him more than the min not to play was stupid as hell and I stand by it, especially since it's a shoulder injury and his main skill on the court is shooting.

I was right about Diaw.

Links to prove otherwise or STFU.

Regarding Mills, you said more than that. You said they wouldn't take care of him and laughed at a suggestion that he would get 2yrs/7M. Unlike you, I can back that up with links.

And calling another poster butthurt? So terribly weak.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Because the Spurs have a pattern of paying above-market rates for players.

No, they've never done it, like ever.

[spurraider21]

Baam a bit off topic, but do you think the spurs get out of the first round this year without splitter?

[Solid D]

Heard it on ESPN 1250 earlier today and the guy gave KSAT12 credit. Wouldn't go into effect until the 2015-2016 season obviously.

KSAT...Lol

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Which was exactly the point - they'd offer him just above the MLE to keep him off the market, because no one else would offer more than the MLE...

You don't know that. There was never a figure thrown out. So at this juncture, anybody could be right when it comes to other offers given to Diaw.

I said a couple of weeks ago, it would be no surprise for the Spurs to pay Diaw as much as Manu, 7 mil a year and that is exactly what he got.

Diaw took what was fair value for him. With teams overpaying for players yet again, I thinkg he could have easily gotten a bigger deal elsewhere, but I hardly doubt that would happen with him and Parker being best friends.

Spurs paid him his FMV. anything higher would have been overpaying. As for other teams, nothing was ever disclosed so it mere speculation at this point.

[AFBlue]

He'll get max, just a question of whether they go 5yr extension or wait until next year when he's restricted to match.

[houston spurs fan]

Mel is like a homeless version of Bruno tbh :lol, guy needs to pat himself on the back every 2 posts... And when he's wrong he gets all butthurt :lol...

You were wrong about Diaw deal with it already :sleep... Regarding Mills I said paying him more than the min not to play was stupid as hell and I stand by it, especially since it's a shoulder injury and his main skill on the court is shooting.
Agree, very insecure guy. Mel lives for a pat on the back.

[SpursFan4-Life]

He's getting whatever he wants

spurs can't get star free agents who aren't washed up so they have to draft stars, they will never let him go

[SpursFan4-Life]

No, they've never done it, like ever.

Riichard Jefferson and Matt bonner says hi, idiot

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

As great as Kawhi's been, I'd be surprised if both sides agreed to the max for Leonard.

In the past 18 years the Spurs have only dished out the max one time, and that was to Tim Duncan.

They've paid Manu and Tony in the past handsomely without using the max, I expect the same type of deal for Leonard (5 yr 55-65 mil). IMO

Robinson had a deal where he was given the average of the two highest paid players in the league. That one would probably count as a max contract I would think.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Riichard Jefferson and Matt bonner says hi, idiot

Sarcasm...duh. Stick to trying to get pinked.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I agree with MaNu4Tres. I think the Spurs will hope to get that 5 year, $60M type contract for Kawhi. It will be up to him to accept it though, because like Tim, Tony, Manu, all had to consider during their negotiations, he could make more than that somewhere else. As EX said, teams will certainly be out there waving max deals in his face. I think the Spurs will try to lock him up early, and will probably hedge up to the $65-$70M range in the negotiation process.

The Finals was a coming out party for Kawhi. He's probably going to have the best year of his career this upcoming season. Max dollars may be required to keep him around. And if he ends up being the only max deal on the Spurs roster, perhaps their model of having lots of other mid-range salary role players who fit the 'Spurs profile' will continue to work.

[benjirh]

Leonard gets more than Hayward and Parsons. The spurs should pay him what he deserves. This guy isn't a headcase, has the personality to stick with SA, and has the skills to keep us a good team at the least. The front office will surround him with players that will maximize his potential. Even Duncan flirted with leaving. To keep Leonard it looks like the spurs will need to pay him the full amount.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Leonard is not going to be greedy IMO. He has great head on his shoulder and knows it was Pop and the rest have helped him developed into the player he is. The Spurs don't buy talent, they create it.

[TheGoldStandard]

He will stay a Spur whatever the cost.

[Seventyniner]

Leonard gets more than Hayward and Parsons. The spurs should pay him what he deserves. This guy isn't a headcase, has the personality to stick with SA, and has the skills to keep us a good team at the least. The front office will surround him with players that will maximize his potential. Even Duncan flirted with leaving. To keep Leonard it looks like the spurs will need to pay him the full amount.

Agree. Kawhi will get maxed out, the only question is who will do it. Will the Spurs go full bomb 5 years max, or let another team do the max 4-year offer and match it? The latter route only includes 4.5% raises (as opposed to the 7.5% raises the Spurs can offer), which reduces the cap hit but could really piss Kawhi off.

[exstatic]

They are projecting another cap jump next year, and then a cap tsunami in 2016, with the new TV deal. If they MAX him at next years higher rate his contract would be an actual steal about 2 years later

[jARS mEsH sEt]

This is my final guess. I'm guessing Leonard will average $12.75M/year. Let's see who comes closest.

[Ice009]

I'm hoping that Kawhi sees the example set by some of the current Spurs players and takes less. I know he's young and hasn't been paid like Tim Duncan has, but if his main objective is winning, then taking a little less might help the Spurs to be able to get better players around him to keep competing/contending.

I think he's worth the max (especially after seeing what GMs are throwing around out there during this free agency period), and it's completely up to him if he wants to take less.

[exstatic]

I'm hoping that Kawhi sees the example set by some of the current Spurs players and takes less. I know he's young and hasn't been paid like Tim Duncan has, but if his main objective is winning, then taking a little less might help the Spurs to be able to get better players around him to keep competing/contending.

I think he's worth the max (especially after seeing what GMs are throwing around out there during this free agency period), and it's completely up to him if he wants to take less.
Why should he? SA's cap sheet is relatively clean, and Tim and Manu's $17M could easily roll off next summer before his contract would kick in. Pay the man.

[Ice009]

Why should he? SA's cap sheet is relatively clean, and Tim and Manu's $17M could easily roll off next summer before his contract would kick in. Pay the man.

The Spurs never paid a prime Manu or Tony max, that's why IMO he should consider taking a little less. They did, so that the Spurs had a little bit more room to work with. Spurs can't afford to give out max contracts if they want to stay near the top and continue contending (unless it's someone like Tim Duncan they're offering the max to). Anyway, if Pop and the front office want to pay Kawhi the max, then I am all for it.

[exstatic]

The Spurs never paid a prime Manu or Tony max, that's why IMO he should consider taking a little less. They did, so that the Spurs had a little bit more room to work with. Spurs can't afford to give out max contracts if they want to stay near the top and continue contending (unless it's someone like Tim Duncan they're offering the max to). Anyway, if Pop and the front office want to pay Kawhi the max, then I am all for it.

I'm not sure they'll have a choice. He could just decline all extension offers and take this into next summer. He'll get the MAX then....

BTW, neither Tony or Manu were "the guy" when they got their contracts. Kawhi likely will be.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not sure they'll have a choice. He could just decline all extension offers and take this into next summer. He'll get the MAX then....

BTW, neither Tony or Manu were "the guy" when they got their contracts. Kawhi likely will be.

Kawhi will get paid handsomely, no doubt.

There's a lot more to it though than just max money.

Leonard now knows Pop will be his coach for the next 5 years at the very least. You can pretty much cement Parker as the All-Star point guard for the Spurs as long as Pop is here. Duncan and Manu will likely be gone by 16-'17', but the foundation of Pop, RC and Parker will still be intact and so will the winning culture -- money can't buy that. Only players who play for the Spurs understand this.

It's why Manu and Tony, even after making All-Star teams (clarifying their elite status among their peers), passed on max money and being the "guy" on another team. There's a lot of value in the winning culture Pop and the Spurs have built the past 18 years. They see Pop as their second father. Its a not a team, it's a family-- a family that has won more than any other franchise in all of sports the past 20 years.

Players like Hayward, or Parsons don't have a clue on what it's like. That is why they strictly chase the money (rightfully so) and don't even consider taking a dime less for the sake of their team, for what?

All in all, I don't really believe its set in stone that Leonard will get the max. Sure he deserves it when you compare the Hayward deal. However, if history holds true, and if Leonard values Pop, winning, the Spurs' culture, and understands their small market, there's a reasonable chance they find a common ground where he still gets paid handsomely ( 5/60-65).

[Mel_13]

All in all, I don't really believe its set in stone that Leonard will get the max. Sure he deserves it when you compare the Hayward deal. However, if history holds true, and if Leonard values Pop, winning, the Spurs' culture, and understands their small market, there's a reasonable chance they find a common ground where he still gets paid handsomely ( 5/60-65).

Sure it's not set in stone that Kawhi and the Spurs will settle on a max deal, either via an extension this summer or a new contract next summer.

It is a fairly settled issue, however, that he will command a max deal if he reaches the free agent market next summer.

[MaNu4Tres]

It is a fairly settled issue, however, that he will command a max deal if he reaches the free agent market next summer.

Certainly. I should have clarified I was referring to the extension scenario, not the hypothetical possibility for him to reach the free agent market next summer.

[Chinook]

Manu has been maxed out before. It's frustrating that people keep acting like he wasn't.

[Mel_13]

Certainly. I should have clarified I was referring to the extension scenario, not the hypothetical possibility for him to reach the free agent market next summer.

You may have missed this from the other thread, but any 5 year extension for Kawhi this summer has to be for the max per the 2011 CBA. Any less than max extension has to be for 4 years.

[Chinook]

Kawhi needs to go ahead and get his money. At this stage, his contract isn't big enough for him to need to or want to give part of it up. Early Duncan wad grabbing every cent he could get.

So long as the Spurs wait until next summer to max out Leonard, they'll be fine financially.

[Cklbmk]

I'd support maxing him out now.. just because he's awesome.. but waiting might be the best bet for the Spurs

[Spur-Addict]

After what Hayward will get, it's inevitable. No reason to be upset.

[cjw]

So long as the Spurs wait until next summer to max out Leonard, they'll be fine financially.

If they wait till next summer and try to do the maneuvering with free agency (say if Tim retires and they have cap space), would they:

a) still be able to give him the full five year max?

b) be subject to a team swooping in and giving him a max offer sheet with less years and be forced to match it (vs. having him under control for longer)?

[Chinook]

If they wait till next summer and try to do the maneuvering with free agency (say if Tim retires and they have cap space), would they:

a) still be able to give him the full five year max?

b) be subject to a team swooping in and giving him a max offer sheet with less years and be forced to match it (vs. having him under control for longer)?

Yes, but if they're prepared to give Leonard the five-year max, they have nothing to fear.

[exstatic]

If they wait till next summer and try to do the maneuvering with free agency (say if Tim retires and they have cap space), would they:

a) still be able to give him the full five year max?

b) be subject to a team swooping in and giving him a max offer sheet with less years and be forced to match it (vs. having him under control for longer)?

Unless something has changed under this CBA, you can match amounts on an offer sheet, and still give the player maximum years and hometown raises.