The NBA is in Decline

[Gino-Step]

All this advanced stats, trading players like asset swaps, salary cap restrictions, opt-out players colluding etc is making the sport a lot less popular.

Now all players pretty much have to be 6'6 with a 7'0 wingspan or you are never making the league. A league that's positionless also means more and more players become identical in how they play. It used to be that you had a Dirk or a Nash or an Iverson or a T-Mac or a Yao Ming. Now it's all 6'6 PG up to a 6'10 stretch 4. Like seriously what is the big difference between Jimmy Butler, Tony Snell, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Andrew Wiggans, Luol Deng etc.

The sport is so predictable. Only 2-3 teams each year have a chance of winning. What are these 27 other teams even doing drafting and hoping? What a waste of time.

30 teams in the league, only 1 winner each year. And it's only going to be one of 2-3 teams.

Compare that to golf where there's 4 majors each year, and tournaments every week where anyone could potentially win.

In a day and age where people's attention spans are shortening and we are transitioning to a tournament based, reality tv type thing, the idea that a fan is going to stay with a team for 7 years as they go through rebuilds just for potentially being able to make the playoffs is seriously silly.

This sport needs to figure itself out. NFL, NHL, World Cup Soccer are a lot less predictable.

[phyzik]

I think the NBA is in the beginings of a new age, ushered in by our own Spurs. Lets get rid of ISO and bring back the renaisaunce of pure basketball.

[Malik Hairston]

NBA Finals have had great ratings the past 4 years after struggling for a while, tbh, the league is thriving..ISO, selfish ball is finally dying, too..

There has been a lot of parity since 2011, but the NBA will never be unpredictable, basketball as a sport can be affected more by individuals than any other sport, obviously..

[m>s]

I don't really get why op feels that way either. The nba is probably short on talent currently but that's something that always fluctuates at any given point in time. The west was totally wide open this year for the first time in years and no one really knows what could happen next year at this point. Also it's been pointed out that iso ball Is going away in favor of a more team oriented playing style.


cp3, rondo, Parker, monte, lillard, Lowry, dragic, Bledsoe, etc are all well under 6'6 and each have different playing styles. Dwight, Tyson, Duncan, cousins, Monroe, Drummond, Aldridge to some extent, horford, Noah, hibbert, Jordan, Randolph, both gasols are not stretch 4s.

[Gino-Step]

Without ISO ball, you have other problems - namely that fans don't have a 'favourite player.

This is an extreme case of team ball.

7 players who all average 14, 5, and 4. The Spurs are getting closer and closer to this type of stat line.

Yes it is inefficient to have Allen Iverson chuck up 30 shots a night to lead the league in scoring. It's also inefficient to have Durant and Westbrook try to win the game by themselves chucking. It's not winning basketball. But, it is interesting to know that hey if I want to see x player get 5 blocks tonight, I'm going to watch Dwight Howard. If I want to watch a player get 12 assists, I'm watching CP3. If I want to see a player put up 35 points, I'm watching KD.

Sure those things might not win games in a hyper advanced stats league, but if everyone average 14, 5, and 4.... then why cheer for one guy over another? Why buy one player's jersey? Who is the greatest of all time if the best players in today's NBA all sacrifice stats and numbers for championships and winning basketball?

Will it be 'efficient' for any player to average 25 a game?

Do we start recognizing Kawhi Leonard as the best player in basketball with a statline of 14, 7 and 4?

The league absolutely will get less popular.

With the NFL, I watch the QB and the WR and the RB. In soccer, I know the striker will score. In hockey, I know it's the forwards on the 1st and 2nd line. What am I supposed to be watching in NBA as a casual fan or a 8 year old?

The problem with the sport is that the court is so small that all 5 players could play interchangeable roles and cover the surface area. The 3 point line is also symmetrical so you can space the whole halfcourt any which way. This just ends up meaning there will be less specialization and less ability for marketers and media to focus in on promoting a player via ads, interviews, pre-game analysis etc. You and I might appreciate the 'beauty of the game' but overall, globally it'll be less popular.

[ironman2886]

Global warming is real.

[Arcadian]

I'm confused. Weren't you previously promoting the same concepts that you're now disparaging? Why the negativity all of a sudden?


The sport is so predictable. Only 2-3 teams each year have a chance of winning. What are these 27 other teams even doing drafting and hoping? What a waste of time.

:lol This is true, but it's always been like that. That's not a sign that the NBA is in decline.


Compare that to golf where there's 4 majors each year, and tournaments every week where anyone could potentially win.

That's an interesting perspective, but golf is an individual (not team) sport, so the comparison is completely irrelevant.


In a day and age where people's attention spans are shortening and we are transitioning to a tournament based, reality tv type thing, the idea that a fan is going to stay with a team for 7 years as they go through rebuilds just for potentially being able to make the playoffs is seriously silly.

Believe it or not, every franchise has hardcore fans, even ones that have never won anything. As a spoiled Spurs fan, I don't know how they do it, but apparently some people just love the game and are loyal to their hometown team.


This is an extreme case of team ball. 7 players who all average 14, 5, and 4. The Spurs are getting closer and closer to this type of stat line.

Really, you're actually making the argument that Spurs-style basketball is hurting the league because it's too good and not entertaining enough? For the past 5 years, people have been saying "that type of basketball will never win a championship in a star-driven league." Well, against all odds (according to most people), they actually did it, and now you're going to say it's hurting the league? Fuck that.


.... then why cheer for one guy over another? Why buy one player's jersey? Who is the greatest of all time if the best players in today's NBA all sacrifice stats and numbers for championships and winning basketball?

Some people actually enjoy watching dynamic team basketball, and we cheer for a team, not just individual players...

Way to take the most impressive championship in recent history and somehow turn it into a negative. But speak for yourself - just because you're a shallow fan doesn't mean the league is going to suffer.

[Jacob1983]

A lot of parity since 2011? You serious? Heat have owned the East since 2011 and the WCF have only had the Mavs, Meth City, Grizzlies, and Spurs. Heat, Spurs, Mavs, and OKC are the only teams that have played in the Finals since 2011.

[DAF86]

I kinda agree. Everybody is sucking Spurs balls right now because is a novelty but if suddenly all teams start sharing the ball like that and play the same way with every guy averaging between 16 and 10 pts people will start to get bored.

[Jacob1983]

The NBA is declining because the big man and inside game are fading away. It's all about monkeyball and heroball. You either throw up a ton of 3 pointers or jumpshots and/or go on a fast break and do an alley oop. Rebounding is going away too. Players have just become lazy on the offensive end. They don't want to go to the basket. They're more comfortable shooting 3's and shitty jumpshots.

[IrisHockey]

Not the NBA's fault the Spurs built this monster out of nowhere... get Leonard with a garbage ass trade for Hill, pick up Green and Diaw who were both nearly out of the league, draft Splitter with a late round pick when everyone passed on him, get Mills out of nowhere, get Duncan to go from being outrebounded by Bynum 30-2 just 2 years ago to playing dominant 2007 basketball... what the fuck:lmao?

[~O~]

How come when the Spurs are winning, the league is dying? I say let the league die so real fans can have the league.

[hsxvvd]

You kinda had me until "golf"...lol.

[Clipper Nation]

Stop crying, faggot....

The funny thing is, the people who bitch and moan about today's "weak era" are the same people who love an era that was watered down by expansion, the shortened three-point line experiment, the illegal defense rules that stifled nearly any creative schemes, and the "one heroballer iso-chucking while everyone else stands and watches" offense....

[Clipper Nation]

I kinda agree. Everybody is sucking Spurs balls right now because is a novelty but if suddenly all teams start sharing the ball like that and play the same way with every guy averaging between 16 and 10 pts people will start to get bored.
How so? If every team moved the ball like the Spurs, the games would be a lot more fun to watch....

[TDMVPDPOY]

Stop crying, faggot....

The funny thing is, the people who bitch and moan about today's "weak era" are the same people who love an era that was watered down by expansion, the shortened three-point line experiment, the illegal defense rules that stifled nearly any creative schemes, and the "one heroballer iso-chucking while everyone else stands and watches" offense....

instead of paying 200 to go watch enrique concert, u can watch 10 games of the real enrique in a spurs jersey

[Thread]

& you're the beneficiary. You've risen when the NBA is in the trough of a terrible depression.

The reliance, the near cult belief that symbolism is preferable to substance is the strongest catalyst in this depression.

[Thread]

How so? If every team moved the ball like the Spurs, the games would be a lot more fun to watch....

And a gaggle of 'em stated exactly that less than a fortnight ago. Yeah, came right out and said it out loud the very next morning, that Monday. Viola!

Just like that.

[Franklin]

it's actually good news for the league classic basketball takes back the trend, otherwise the league would turn into a zoo within a few years tbh.

[Thread]

it's actually good news for the league classic basketball takes back the trend, otherwise the league would turn into a zoo within a few years tbh.

Trend? What trend? You have but one team, the remainder is the zoo you speak of.

[Infinite_limit]

Without ISO ball, you have other problems - namely that fans don't have a 'favourite player.

This is an extreme case of team ball.

7 players who all average 14, 5, and 4. The Spurs are getting closer and closer to this type of stat line.

Yes it is inefficient to have Allen Iverson chuck up 30 shots a night to lead the league in scoring. It's also inefficient to have Durant and Westbrook try to win the game by themselves chucking. It's not winning basketball. But, it is interesting to know that hey if I want to see x player get 5 blocks tonight, I'm going to watch Dwight Howard. If I want to watch a player get 12 assists, I'm watching CP3. If I want to see a player put up 35 points, I'm watching KD.

Sure those things might not win games in a hyper advanced stats league, but if everyone average 14, 5, and 4.... then why cheer for one guy over another? Why buy one player's jersey? Who is the greatest of all time if the best players in today's NBA all sacrifice stats and numbers for championships and winning basketball?

Will it be 'efficient' for any player to average 25 a game?

Do we start recognizing Kawhi Leonard as the best player in basketball with a statline of 14, 7 and 4?

The league absolutely will get less popular.

With the NFL, I watch the QB and the WR and the RB. In soccer, I know the striker will score. In hockey, I know it's the forwards on the 1st and 2nd line. What am I supposed to be watching in NBA as a casual fan or a 8 year old?

The problem with the sport is that the court is so small that all 5 players could play interchangeable roles and cover the surface area. The 3 point line is also symmetrical so you can space the whole halfcourt any which way. This just ends up meaning there will be less specialization and less ability for marketers and media to focus in on promoting a player via ads, interviews, pre-game analysis etc. You and I might appreciate the 'beauty of the game' but overall, globally it'll be less popular.
Interesting perspective and you make some great points. But I'm not sure the Spurs are a trend: Building a roster thru the draft with glue guys. As the NBA Draft showed last night: Cavaliers drafted a mentally fragile super scorer over Parker. Then again, I heard Cav's GM state on the radio something about Wiggins have amazing defensive muscle response (?). That reminded him of Marion. I had a big ole laugh.

[Franklin]

Of course, you're the trend setter, Dale, you set the trend.