Hypothetical: George Hill back in San Antonio?

[cd021]

Hypothetical-George Hill back on the Spurs

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n4fst2d (numbers from last season, but would work with next seasons cap figures as well)


The Pacers have 10 players under contract next season for $64.9 million (about 2 million over the projected cap) with Lan Stephenson an unrestricted free agent. Stephenson's rumored value is any where from $8-10 million per season, which could push them anywhere from $73 to $75 million (the luxury tax is $77 million for the 14-15 season) they wouldn't be able to use the full mid level without going into the luxury tax ,in all likelihood.

Spurs Get
George Hill
Draft Pick (protected 1st rounder in 2016, or a 2015 second rounder)

Pacers Get
Jeff Ayers
Marco Bellinelli
Austin Daye

Pacers would trim 2.3 million off in the trade and can waived Daye by 7/30/14 to trim off another $750,000 ($3.0 million in savings this season) dropping them to about $62 million.

The move would give them allow them access to the full mid level exception and allow them to keep Stephenson without having to waive Scola. They would also save $16 million (8 million each season) over the next two years. Allowing them room to retool. They would save $19 million dollars over the next 3 seasons.


The Spurs would receive ,Hill who has played in our system before (10 ppg, 45 %, 37.1 % 3pt over his 3 seasons in S.A.)and is solid defender. Hill was the 6th man his final season. The Spurs rotation has drastically changed since his time with the team.

The Spurs lead the league in O Rtg but were 13th in D Rtg with players like Neal, Blair and Bonner having bigger roles on the team. The '10-'11 team lost in the first round to the Grizzlies. Splitter was rookie and Green was a fringe NBA player at that time.tenure. Manu, and Diaw coming off the bench.


The Spurs would cut into their cap space in 15-16 and 16-17 (only Splitter is under contract with $8.5 million in each year) but they could some of that offset that my opting not to resign Mills (to a multi-year deal). Joseph would still be on the roster. Mills, if he returns could make in the range of $4 million a season probably over 3 seasons.

Parker/Joseph
Green/Hill/Ginobili
Leonard/Ginobili/Anderson
Splitter/Diaw/Bonner (if he returns)
Duncan/Baynes (if he returns)

Bench could primarily consist of: Joseph, Hill, Ginobili, Diaw and Baynes (or another big man or SF that the Spurs signed

with 3 rosters spots open and $58.5 million in committed to 12 players (assuming Baynes returns on his qualifying offer, Anderson is signed and Bonner re-signs for the vet minimum). The Spurs would still have access to the MLE.


*(Note) Thought it is an interesting idea to discuss. After watching him struggle in Indiana playing PG, I wonder how well he'd fit into the current incarnation of the Spurs. A good case can be made that Mills is still a better fit on the Spurs and cheaper to.

[ChumpDumper]

Bird isn't going to let RC rape him twice.

[exstatic]

No. He makes too much $$$ for what he brings to the table. It's the reason he was traded in the first place, the anticipated payday.

In addition, Indy probably already feels stung from the original trade. If we get Hill back for scraps, it will almost look like they GAVE Kawhi to us.

[cd021]

Bird isn't going to let RC rape him twice.

He'd certainly be hesitant ,but then again, Phoenix made off with Plumlee the 27th pick and Green for an declining Scola just last year.

[Mal]

He'd certainly be hesitant ,but then again, Phoenix made off with Plumlee the 27th pick and Green for an declining Scola just last year.

But that`s diffrent dick

[exstatic]

He'd certainly be hesitant ,but then again, Phoenix made off with Plumlee the 27th pick and Green for an declining Scola just last year.

:lol I doubt he'd take Phoenix's phone calls, either.

[Robz4000]

We'd have to give up CoJo/Mills in that trade instead of Errors tbh. Moot point tho, as much as I want Hill back he doesn't fill a need.

[baseline bum]

Don't want Hill. I'm glad the Spurs sold high and never had to pay him market value, because he's not worth anything close to the money he got for looking good in the eyeball test (athletic, long arms, good shooter). His defense against screens was horrible in San Antonio. As great as it was for the Spurs defense to lose Jefferson, I think Hill's absence was huge too.

[Chris]

Wouldn't mind having Hill back tbh but not for Belli

[TheDarkSide.]

I like George Hill..but at the free throw line in crunch time..it seems he always chokes at least one.

[benefactor]

No. He makes too much $$$ for what he brings to the table. It's the reason he was traded in the first place, the anticipated payday.

/thread

[elemento]

I liked him when he had a rookie scale contract. Not now making 8m/year. He is a MLE player at best.

[cd021]

But that`s diffrent dick

??

[DMC]

No. Pop has a thing about getting rid of anyone named "Hill".

[T Park]

Don't want Hill. I'm glad the Spurs sold high and never had to pay him market value, because he's not worth anything close to the money he got for looking good in the eyeball test (athletic, long arms, good shooter). His defense against screens was horrible in San Antonio. As great as it was for the Spurs defense to lose Jefferson, I think Hill's absence was huge too.


On point as always. Don't want Hill here.

[Baam]

I really like the idea even it's not all that realistic. Good thread. You replace Marco with Hill and there's basically no hole in the rotation anymore... Could be hard to keep everyone happy tho...

[tholdren]

He'd certainly be hesitant ,but then again, Phoenix made off with Plumlee the 27th pick and Green for an declining Scola just last year.
Why would you want hill? The most interesting part about that trade, to me, is the draft picks. Hill is a really shitty point in the nba, and that is saying something because Mario Chalmers is a starting PG in the nba... CJ and Mills are both better at the 1 than Hill. Corey will get better with experience. Hill, I believe, is maxed out.

[anakha]

PATFO's greatest accomplishment of 2011 was convincing the NBA that Hill was a PG.

[Chinook]

Hill's contract is horrible, but if the Spurs decide to stay over the cap in 2015, it really doesn't matter. The first would be nice, because the Pacers may well implode. I'd rather get next year's pick, though.

Honestly, the biggest issue is that Hill is no longer a fit for this roster. He's been thoroughly replaced in every facet of his game by better players. Hill should get a lot of credit for essentially starting the Spurs' youth movement that revitalized the roster. But he'd stand in the way of progress now.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Hill's contract is horrible, but if the Spurs decide to stay over the cap in 2015, it really doesn't matter. The first would be nice, because the Pacers may well implode. I'd rather get next year's pick, though.

Honestly, the biggest issue is that Hill is no longer a fit for this roster. He's been thoroughly replaced in every facet of his game by better players. Hill should get a lot of credit for essentially starting the Spurs' youth movement that revitalized the roster. But he'd stand in the way of progress now.

True dat. Hill is a bench type player. Spurs totally fleeced the Pacers on that trade. Essentially allowed the Spurs to sign Green, Splitter and kawhi as all their salaries combined matched Hills w the Pacers. To top it off, Bertans actually looks like a damn good player as well.

[Mal]

??

Regarding "rape".

[mkurts]

No way

[therealtruth]

Don't want Hill. I'm glad the Spurs sold high and never had to pay him market value, because he's not worth anything close to the money he got for looking good in the eyeball test (athletic, long arms, good shooter). His defense against screens was horrible in San Antonio. As great as it was for the Spurs defense to lose Jefferson, I think Hill's absence was huge too.

I agree 100%.

[letmk]

As frustrated as the Pacers with Hill, all their other PG choices are even worse.

[Mark in Austin]

Hill's contract is horrible, but if the Spurs decide to stay over the cap in 2015, it really doesn't matter. The first would be nice, because the Pacers may well implode. I'd rather get next year's pick, though.

Honestly, the biggest issue is that Hill is no longer a fit for this roster. He's been thoroughly replaced in every facet of his game by better players. Hill should get a lot of credit for essentially starting the Spurs' youth movement that revitalized the roster. But he'd stand in the way of progress now.

Agree. Add to that the fact that defensively he has a huge gaping hole in his game (can't deal with screens) and for the Spurs, Belli>>Hill

[cd021]

Why would you want hill? The most interesting part about that trade, to me, is the draft picks. Hill is a really shitty point in the nba, and that is saying something because Mario Chalmers is a starting PG in the nba... CJ and Mills are both better at the 1 than Hill. Corey will get better with experience. Hill, I believe, is maxed out.

Didn't say that I wanted Hill, the idea of the thread was whether Hill would be a good fit in San Antonio now given how drastically the team has changed. I know how bad his contract is and how crippling it is for Indiana. Part of me is interested to see how that bench would perform with both Joseph and Hill playing alongside of Manu, Diaw and another big.

Mills is probably the better fit, and can get hot quickly, despite playing less than 20 mpg.
He never was a PG but a combo guard. A guy who is fairly big for a PG but not big enough for a 2 guard who can dribble the ball without turning the ball over. Indiana mistook him for being able to run an offense. In San Antonio he never really ran the offense for long stretches without Manu or Parker off the floor.

I think alot of his struggles have to due with Indianas offense. A case can be made for Hill being the biggest problem but he is performing about as well as to be expected given how Voguel is misusing him. I would bring him off the bench for Watson or have him play along side Watson for stretches, so he isn't responsible for having to run the offense for long stretches.

The draft pick is part of the reason why I'd consider my hypothetical. The Pacers are in a bit of a bind and his contract is the reason. If they move his deal for cap relief then I'd be surprised if they wouldn't have to include a pick similar to the Spurs moving Jefferson to GSW.

The Spurs are still going to have cap space following next season. With or without Hill. Adding an additional $ 4 million per season over the next 3 years to what Mills is likely to make in that same span for the Spurs. Adding a second 1st rounder in 2016 would help the Spurs further stock pile talent with the hopes that they won't have to bottom out (ala Phily) to return to championship contention and go more of a Houston or Indy route where they are more competitive and draft in the early teens.

[cd021]

We'd have to give up CoJo/Mills in that trade instead of Errors tbh. Moot point tho, as much as I want Hill back he doesn't fill a need.

They could always go after one using the MLE. I'm not as familiar with sign n' trade rules so I'm not sure Mills can be packaged to get Hill (assuming he is willing to play for Indy)

[tmtcsc]

I liked him when he had a rookie scale contract. Not now making 8m/year. He is a MLE player at best.

Hill makes 8 million a year? :lmao

Yeah, Bird's not taking our call.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

He'd certainly be hesitant ,but then again, Phoenix made off with Plumlee the 27th pick and Green for an declining Scola just last year.

GOOD LORD!!! indy shouldn't trade anymore.

[Emperor]

Hill would nice but that train has long come and gone. Rather stick with Marco and Daye.

[cd021]

Hill would nice but that train has long come and gone. Rather stick with Marco and Daye.

Daye is probably gone either way.

[tholdren]

Didn't say that I wanted Hill, the idea of the thread was whether Hill would be a good fit in San Antonio now given how drastically the team has changed. I know how bad his contract is and how crippling it is for Indiana. Part of me is interested to see how that bench would perform with both Joseph and Hill playing alongside of Manu, Diaw and another big.

Mills is probably the better fit, and can get hot quickly, despite playing less than 20 mpg.
He never was a PG but a combo guard. A guy who is fairly big for a PG but not big enough for a 2 guard who can dribble the ball without turning the ball over. Indiana mistook him for being able to run an offense. In San Antonio he never really ran the offense for long stretches without Manu or Parker off the floor.

I think alot of his struggles have to due with Indianas offense. A case can be made for Hill being the biggest problem but he is performing about as well as to be expected given how Voguel is misusing him. I would bring him off the bench for Watson or have him play along side Watson for stretches, so he isn't responsible for having to run the offense for long stretches.

The draft pick is part of the reason why I'd consider my hypothetical. The Pacers are in a bit of a bind and his contract is the reason. If they move his deal for cap relief then I'd be surprised if they wouldn't have to include a pick similar to the Spurs moving Jefferson to GSW.

The Spurs are still going to have cap space following next season. With or without Hill. Adding an additional $ 4 million per season over the next 3 years to what Mills is likely to make in that same span for the Spurs. Adding a second 1st rounder in 2016 would help the Spurs further stock pile talent with the hopes that they won't have to bottom out (ala Phily) to return to championship contention and go more of a Houston or Indy route where they are more competitive and draft in the early teens.

Then I think it comes down to:
Marco's value to the value of HILL plus the pick. I think no, because Hill will want money, and I think Marco is more loyal. Hill cant play offense for shit and Marco is the same on defense. Hill is never going to make a huge play, Marco will. So no. I wouldnt do it. I hate George Hill's game.

[cd021]

GOOD LORD!!! indy shouldn't trade anymore.

Yeah... that deal was brutal in hindsight. Plus Scola could need to be waived or moved in order to allow them to keep Lan without going into the luxury tax. His rep has undraveled a bit after the Hill/ Leonard deal and that one.

[Mikeanaro]

NO! NOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

[TheyCallMePro]

The Pacers would demand a PG in return. And there's no way they would take an end-of-the-bench guy like Ayers back. Not even for a year.

Furthermore, from the Spurs perspective, it doesn't make any sense because of Hill's absurd 8 million a year contract that's guaranteed for the next 2 years. Patty Mills might get 5 million a year, but that's still significantly less. And Hill has regressed at Indiana. His ball-handling and 3 point shooting is now atrocious compared to what it was here. It would be hard to adjust from all the bad habits on the offensive end that Indiana instilled in him.

[SouthernFried]

I like Kyle Anderson better than Hill.

Even tho Anderson's is all "potential" right now...I like the potential ;)

[siraulo23]

why? so we can watch him get burnt by the lillards, ellis, westbrook, dragic in the western conference?

oh the nightmare when nash murdered him

[scanry]

The whole George was Pop's favorite player was and still is bull. RC trolled the Pacers bigtime. Hill was a horrible ball handler and could only defend PGs and after Dragic & Conley schooled him in two consective playoffs, RC pulled the trigger by selling his high.

Thank god, the pacers bought it cause we'd be looking at a very ugly stretch right about now. Duncan, Manu & Pop would've retired by now. Heck Pop wants to continue coaching only cause of Kawhi.

[SilverSpur]

As a person and a player I would want him back but he would have to take a pay cut which I don't think he would mind.
You should send your Hypothetical to Pacers front office.
Me personally I would want Nando DeColo back first. He was coming along real nice, but was just so buried behind all the guards we had. Reminded me of a young Manu. Can you imangine Nando with more playing time / experience, in our system.
If Patty leaves we need to make Nando a priority.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

As a person and a player I would want him back but he would have to take a pay cut which I don't think he would mind.
You should send your Hypothetical to Pacers front office.
Me personally I would want Nando DeColo back first. He was coming along real nice, but was just so buried behind all the guards we had. Reminded me of a young Manu. Can you imangine Nando with more playing time / experience, in our system.
If Patty leaves we need to make Nando a priority.

Nando's a RFA right now. Looks like the Raptors want him back. I like Nando, but he had a bad attitude thinking he deserved playing time and not improving the aspects of his game Pop wanted him to. That why he got traded and the other guys who didn't complain had their chance to shine this playoffs (notably Mills and Baynes).

[Old School 44]

No to Hill. Seemed like a great teammate. But as Indy has found out he's not a starting point in this league, especially not for 8m. He's a solid backup and that's it and we have Patty and Cojo at a better salary. I think it was Bill Simmons who said the Spurs got to the "lottery" for their third time with that trade.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pass. Beli hit a huge shot for us in the Finals. He'll be better next year and can burn regular season time at the SG while Manu rests after international play.

[TheWriter]

It's no longer hypothetical. George Hill is back in San Antonio (https://twitter.com/George_Hill3/status/482948412753444864).

[look_at_g_shred]

This thread :lmao

[Dex]

It's no longer hypothetical. George Hill is back in San Antonio (https://twitter.com/George_Hill3/status/482948412753444864).

Where's his bestie Dejuan?

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

No to Hill. Seemed like a great teammate. But as Indy has found out he's not a starting point in this league, especially not for 8m. He's a solid backup and that's it and we have Patty and Cojo at a better salary. I think it was Bill Simmons who said the Spurs got to the "lottery" for their third time with that trade.

In all fairness, Hill play was much better with the Spurs b/c of its system and playing next to Manu. That is why Young and Monroe have heard from other team's mgt that they are reluctant to make big offers to Diaw and Mills b/c they feel that their numbers couldn't be replicated outside of the Spurs System.

I guess teams have learned this from the Hill trade. I always thought Hill was a MLE player and would still be a great fit for the Spurs. But at 8 mil, he is overpaid and the Spurs don't overpaid players. Only one I can remember is Rasho.

[EVAY]

Don't want Hill. I'm glad the Spurs sold high and never had to pay him market value, because he's not worth anything close to the money he got for looking good in the eyeball test (athletic, long arms, good shooter). His defense against screens was horrible in San Antonio. As great as it was for the Spurs defense to lose Jefferson, I think Hill's absence was huge too.

This. Thank you. Well said.

[EVAY]

Hill was never good at running the offense, imo.