McRoberts to the Heat

[rjv]

per marc stein via ESPN; now lebron will stay. so much for the spurs. if we offered we offered the MLE as well but apparently he wanted to be in miami.

[Dverde]

I doubt McRoberts is a game changer either way to LBJ. I think the Heat are going to let Bosh walk now.

[703 Spurz]

20-62 probably for the Spurs now. Shit.

[rjv]

yeah, i was never all that keen on the idea of the spurs going after him.

[SpursFan86]

Full MLE for McRoberts is a little dicey IMO. I'm not too worried about it...and I seriously doubt this is the move that will convince LeBron to stay lol.

[Dverde]

4 years for 23 Millions seems like a lot for McRoberts. He got a player option, too. No way the Spurs were going to give him that much. Good for him.

[xmas1997]

Crap, but better than Melo in Miami.
Will Bosh stay or bolt to Houston?

[Mr. Body]

We can offer the MLE to a lot of players (not that we did) but playing time is a major issue. The Spurs are stacked up in most positions.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Even if the big three agreed to another paycut, that means the majority of money left over for free agents was just used on McRoberts. I don't see how that makes any sense for Miami.

[DJR210]

Not a huge deal tbh. He's a slight improvement over Birdman IMO. They still need offensive production, and he's not the answer. I haven't been too impressed with what I've seen from Napier in the Summer League either.

[LakerHater]

Does that mean they're done shopping?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Does that mean they're done shopping?

If the big 3 stay, then pretty much. They will then fill out the roster with minimum players.

[coopdogg3]

Well, I won't do sour grapes. I thought he would be a good, interesting addition for the Spurs. Definitely not a game changer though. If he replaces Birdman, maybe a slight upgrade. Downgrade if Heat can't retain Bosh. /shrug. Guess we will see.

[Mr Bones]

McRoberts is nothing like Birdman... He played point forward for the Bobcats and had the best assist to turnover rate of any non-point guard in the entire league. He also has a decent 3 point shot. He's much more like Boris Diaw, who just signed for 3 years/22 million. Great move by the Heat.

[Mr Bones]

I can see Pat Riley now not resigning Bosh and spending that 15-20 million on three or four players to add depth to the Heat... Guys like Ariza, Aminu, Udoh, etc... it would probably make them better.

[xmas1997]

I can see Pat Riley now not resigning Bosh and spending that 15-20 million on three or four players to add depth to the Heat... Guys like Ariza, Aminu, Udoh, etc... it would probably make them better.

I agree, or go for the home run and try and get Melo.

[Jenks]

One of my favorite moments in the east playoffs.

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/1398378083_bmbpzu_ceaaomkj.jpg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjl3zOYPbRg

[Captivus]

Diaw stopper?

[Vic Petro]

486232867635482627

[Mr Bones]

I can see Pat Riley now not resigning Bosh and spending that 15-20 million on three or four players to add depth to the Heat... Guys like Ariza, Aminu, Udoh, etc... it would probably make them better.

Or Danny Granger, who just signed w/ them.

[Vic Petro]

Granger is for the mini mid-level it looks like. This is Riley's pitch to the Big 3: McRoberts, Granger, and minimum salary guys.

[Mr. Body]

The one the Heat should have either been rid of or paid much less was Wade. But since Bosh is just a decent defender/jumpshooter, there's no sense in giving him tons of money.

What they should have done is sign bargain or lower tier guys who can play defense, maybe facilitate the defense, not expect many shots. I'm not sure Granger has much left but he's cheap, and McBob is a good pickup.

Other general boards are cackling at this but IMO it's not terrible. Maybe if they keep Wade and James, sign Gasol, then they're actually in great shape.

[benefactor]

:lol Granger and McRoberts
:lol help

[Spurs9]

:lmao thinking McRoberts is a game changer, since LA got so far with him right? :cry

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

At least this hopefully closes the door on Gasol signing with the Heat...

[Mr. Body]

These are good role-players, what Miami should have been after all along. They didn't need any more expensive stars.

[Mr Bones]

:lmao thinking McRoberts is a game changer, since LA got so far with him right? :cry


Boris Diaw is a game changer, and so is McRoberts. It doesn't make sense to say one is and the other isn't-- they're too similar.

[Baam]

Not spending what little money they had on a center :lol... They really should have drafted Capela...

[Baam]

Boris Diaw is a game changer, and so is McRoberts. It doesn't make sense to say one is and the other isn't-- they're too similar.

Boris is a much better shot creator and has a great post game... They're not in the same tier...

[dbreiden83080]

Who???

[Mr. Body]

Not spending what little money they had on a center :lol... They really should have drafted Capela...

How would Capela help? He's not coming over anytime soon. What center did they spend money on?

[Malik Hairston]

Can't really comment on this signing until the rest of Miami's roster is full, tbh..

He's a good player, net positive offensive player and average defensive player, stretch big with great passing ability, but Miami needs defenders/athletes, at this point..

[ducks]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · 59s

Heat strike deals with Josh McRoberts and, according to @WojYahooNBA, Danny Granger. LeBron, I'm told, was made aware of McRoberts pursuit

[Baam]

How would Capela help? He's not coming over anytime soon. What center did they spend money on?

The Rockets don't want him to come over yet, he never planned to stay in Europe...

[cd98]

I thought McRoberts looked like a player in Indiana way back in the day. Still, he could barely get minutes off the bench. He was too green to look good in Portland. I'm guessing he flourished with the Bobcats where I never saw him play. He should be good with Lebron and Wade.

[benefactor]

Boris Diaw is a game changer, and so is McRoberts. It doesn't make sense to say one is and the other isn't-- they're too similar.
:lol...what?

[Malik Hairston]

McRoberts is fine in a vacuum, but they desperately need defensive players, tbh..

Lebron can't carry an offense and a defense simultaneously anymore, too much mileage..Wade is just an offensive specialist now, he's a defensive negative..they are going to be overwhelmed by athleticism, unless they can find some niche athletes as role players, but Riley is a poor GM that isn't known for finding gems..

[Mr Bones]

The Spurs were after McRoberts too. I don't suppose you think RC Buford AND Pat Riley are no good at evaluating nba talent, do you?

[ceperez]

I wonder if they are going to get Gasol and dump Bosh.

[rjv]

Full MLE for McRoberts is a little dicey IMO. I'm not too worried about it...and I seriously doubt this is the move that will convince LeBron to stay lol.


yeah, if this is what the heat thinks seals the deal that's pretty sad. it will take much more than a role player and a PG from UCONN.

[spurs1990]

Heat nation.

Let's all root for Miami since we've shared 2 incredible finals with them.

[Darkwaters]

Granger is for the mini mid-level it looks like. This is Riley's pitch to the Big 3: McRoberts, Granger, and minimum salary guys.


BAE

[ceperez]

McRoberts is actually smaller than Kyle Anderson.

Here are the numbers for McRoberts:

2007 NBA Pre-Draft Camp 6' 8.75" 6' 10" 240 7' 1" 8' 10.5"

and Anderson:

NBA Draft Combine 6' 7.5" 6' 8.5" 230 7' 2.75" 8' 11.5"

The key measurements are the wingspan and standing reach.

[cd021]

Crap, but better than Melo in Miami.
Will Bosh stay or bolt to Houston?
Bolt imo

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Bolt imo

I know he's an athletic freak, tall, easily the fastest player around.

But I'm not convinced he can shoot or handle the ball, tbh.

[ceperez]

Heat nation.

Let's all root for Miami since we've shared 2 incredible finals with them.

If Lebron goes back to the heat, it doesn't matter who the other players are going to be, it's a guarantee that they make it again to the finals.

Let's be real, what other the other competitive teams in the East?

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Boris is a much better shot creator and has a great post game... They're not in the same tier...

Exactly. McRoberts is a hustle guy, but he is not on Diaw's level when it comes to bb iq.

[cd021]

I doubt McRoberts is a game changer either way to LBJ. I think the Heat are going to let Bosh walk now.
I think thats probably whats going to happen. Lebron with the max and Wade at 4y, 60 million, $15 million this season plus. I dont think McBob and Granger are actually for the MLE and BAE. but that is just its being referred to because they are going to use their cap space. The money the same though. They are probably going after Deng or Ariza along with Williams and maybe even Nelson.

[spurraider21]

I wonder if they are going to get Gasol and dump Bosh.
lol no

[xmas1997]

The one they should be dumping is Wade IMHO.

[Dex]

:lmao Josh Fucking McRoberts? :lmao

:lmao Way to put the league on notice, Miami. :lmao

[Kawhi]

:lmao Josh Fucking McRoberts? :lmao

:lmao Way to put the league on notice, Miami. :lmao:cry he dunked on birdman :cry

[Kineto]

If miami use MLE to sign Mc Robberts and BAE to sign Granger, it means they can't use cap space to sign a FA anymore.
All they can do now is just re-sign their own FA with bird exception.
So if Bosh go to houston and/or Lebron to Cleveland, they can't go after Melo/Gasol/Ariza or any other major FA.

[ceperez]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234160/Chris-Bosh-Receives-Four-Year-$80M+-Max-Offer-From-Rockets

Bosh for the Max... but they have to unload Jeremy Lin.

[ceperez]

If miami use MLE to sign Mc Robberts and BAE to sign Granger, it means they can't use cap space to sign a FA anymore.
All they can do now is just re-sign their own FA with bird exception.
So if Bosh go to houston and/or Lebron to Cleveland, they can't go after Melo/Gasol/Ariza or any other major FA.

Is this the end of the Heat as we know it?

They could still do a sign-and-trade but with who?

This could end up to be a real disaster for the Heat. Now with the max deal for Bosh it's going to be problematic.

Oh the Drama.... the off season is going to decide if the Heat are contenders or not!

[xmas1997]

If McRoberts and Granger are signing because they were told James will be back, then do they still have to sign if James goes somewhere else?

[DPG21920]

If McRoberts and Granger are signing because they were told James will be back, then do they still have to sign if James goes somewhere else?

Well, they have only formally committed. They have not signed their contracts. You can't do that until 7/10. So, if Lebron announces he's leaving before then, they could easily change their minds (both parties). It would be tough because this may cause other teams that were looking at him to move on and use their money elsewhere, but nothing has formally been done.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Oh the Drama.... the off season is going to decide if the Heat are contenders or not!


Who could have seen that coming?

[DPG21920]

Re: McRoberts: I like the signing a lot for MIA. If we are to believe the consistent reports regarding Lebron's desire for a max deal, then cap space was always a bit of long shot considering it would mean Bosh/Wade would have to take sizeable pay cuts or walk completely.

Assuming the goal was to keep Lebron with Wa*e & Bosh, then the MLE was always the realistic avenue to improve. For the MLE, Josh is about as good as you could hope for. While I agree that MIA needed defense, it's their offense that seemed unreliable. They had to play a lot of Bosh as the "stretch 4" or Bosh at the 5 and Bron at the 4. Their other big men (Birdman / Haslem..) were not any good offensively and not that great defensively tbh..You saw the success their offense had with Rashard Lewis at the 4 and this allows them to be a bit more athletic, bigger and better offensively as JM is a superior play maker and overall player to Rashard Lewis.

For what they had available, this gives the Heat a much more versatile lineup option depending on what they want to do offensively.

[DPG21920]

Re: McRoberts: I like the signing a lot for MIA. If we are to believe the consistent reports regarding Lebron's desire for a max deal, then cap space was always a bit of long shot considering it would mean Bosh/Wade would have to take sizeable pay cuts or walk completely.

Assuming the goal was to keep Lebron with Wa*e & Bosh, then the MLE was always the realistic avenue to improve. For the MLE, Josh is about as good as you could hope for. While I agree that MIA needed defense, it's their offense that seemed unreliable. They had to play a lot of Bosh as the "stretch 4" or Bosh at the 5 and Bron at the 4. Their other big men (Birdman / Haslem..) were not any good offensively and not that great defensively tbh..You saw the success their offense had with Rashard Lewis at the 4 and this allows them to be a bit more athletic, bigger and better offensively as JM is a superior play maker and overall player to Rashard Lewis.

For what they had available, this gives the Heat a much more versatile lineup option depending on what they want to do offensively.

I was going to say that agreeing to terms with McRoberts screws MIA even if Bosh leaves probably. If Bosh leaves, McRoberts no longer gets the "MLE". He would get the cap space. If that is the case, 2 things happen:

1) They renege on McRoberts allowing them to offer a max deal to Bron/Melo and Wade takes his normal paycut he was going to take.

2) They keep McRoberts, but now have 5M less in cap space and how does that impact their ability to sign Melo?

If Bosh doesn't leave (or Wade), then their entire means of improving is gone with McRoberts/Granger signing for the MLE/BAE

[pgardn]

The Spurs were after McRoberts too. I don't suppose you think RC Buford AND Pat Riley are no good at evaluating nba talent, do you?

Which team needs some D?

[Mel_13]

I was going to say that agreeing to terms with McRoberts screws MIA even if Bosh leaves probably. If Bosh leaves, McRoberts no longer gets the "MLE". He would get the cap space. If that is the case, 2 things happen:

1) They renege on McRoberts allowing them to offer a max deal to Bron/Melo and Wade takes his normal paycut he was going to take.

2) They keep McRoberts, but now have 5M less in cap space and how does that impact their ability to sign Melo?

If Bosh doesn't leave (or Wade), then their entire means of improving is gone with McRoberts/Granger signing for the MLE/BAE

That's about it. Hard to see a road to significant improvement.

[tholdren]

Not a huge deal tbh. He's a slight improvement over Birdman IMO. They still need offensive production, and he's not the answer. I haven't been too impressed with what I've seen from Napier in the Summer League either.


Statistically not even close to the bird in playoffs or reg season. He went to Miaimi - oh well.

[DJR210]

Statistically not even close to the bird in playoffs or reg season. He went to Miaimi - oh well.

He averages a couple points and assists more, and a couple of rebounds less per the regular season stats. Not even sure what Birdman did in the playoffs, he sure as hell didn't do a fucking thing in the Finals.

[Gametight]

Still does nothing for there atrocious backcourt :lol

[DJR210]

Still does nothing for there atrocious backcourt :lol

*Ahem* their not there.

Anyways, Napier is a big improvement over the corpses of Chalmers and Cole.

[DPG21920]

He very well may be, but at this point it seems like a stretch to call Napier a big upgrade after what Chalmers has proven overall. Chalmers isn't great, but has had plenty of good moments.

[ceperez]

Interesting Heat signings. Usually players come begging to join the Heat. This time it appears that the Heat needed to entice these role players to sign.

[Budkin]

:lol Granger and McRoberts
:lol help

:lol Riley

[Ice009]

I think thats probably whats going to happen. Lebron with the max and Wade at 4y, 60 million, $15 million this season plus. I dont think McBob and Granger are actually for the MLE and BAE. but that is just its being referred to because they are going to use their cap space. The money the same though. They are probably going after Deng or Ariza along with Williams and maybe even Nelson.

Why is Wade worth 60M? I'd offer him 10M max, and that it's it.

[exstatic]

Boris Diaw is a game changer, and so is McRoberts. It doesn't make sense to say one is and the other isn't-- they're too similar.

There are big guys who can pass, but very few do it well ON THE MOVE. Diaw is like a guard with the ball, and JoMcRo is a homeless man's version of Diaw.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Why is Wade worth 60M? I'd offer him 10M max, and that it's it.

What's crazy is that 10M is even pushing it, imo.

[Malik Hairston]

The problem with the Heat isn't that players don't want to play there, it's that the remaining "big-name" free agents are severely over-valuing themselves, tbh..

Washed-up players like Luol Deng actually think they're worth big money, and sadly, some other team will probably give it to them:lol..a soft, overrated Gordan Hayward is going to receive the max, smh..

[hater]

:lol Granger and McRoberts
:lol help

:lmao :lol

:lmao

hilarious :lol

[dbreiden83080]

The problem with the Heat isn't that players don't want to play there, it's that the remaining "big-name" free agents are severely over-valuing themselves, tbh..

Washed-up players like Luol Deng actually think they're worth big money, and sadly, some other team will probably give it to them:lol..a soft, overrated Gordan Hayward is going to receive the max, smh..

Houston offering Bosh a Max deal is beyond comprehension.. Do any of these owners or GM's watch basketball? You are talking about offering a guy max money that did nothing whatsoever in a 5 game beat down that was the 2014 NBA finals.. A guy that has proven to be soft and mediocre in big spots.. A guy that is not dominant in any facet of the game anywhere.. Where is the logic for this max money other than stupid ownership?

[FireMicoHalili]

Good signing. Passing big is still a passing big. Not bad for the MLE. Solid outside stroke too.

[Mr Bones]

There are big guys who can pass, but very few do it well ON THE MOVE. Diaw is like a guard with the ball, and JoMcRo is a homeless man's version of Diaw.

Last season, Diaw had 222 assists and 121 turnovers, for a 1.83 assist-to-turnover ratio.
McRoberts had 333 assists and 83 turnovers, for a 4.01 assist-to-turnover ratio.

However you look at it, McRoberts had an impressive year as a point forward.

[FireMicoHalili]

Last season, Diaw had 222 assists and 121 turnovers, for a 1.83 assist-to-turnover ratio.
McRoberts had 333 assists and 83 turnovers, for a 4.01 assist-to-turnover ratio.

However you look at it, McRoberts had an impressive year as a point forward.
I agree, impressive. Good touch from the outside too, skill set is very intriguing. Hard to argue with people who base another player's performance off a few games though, like he watched every single Bobcats (EDIT: Hornets) game. Pretty much an impasse :depressed

[Malice]

Last season, Diaw had 222 assists and 121 turnovers, for a 1.83 assist-to-turnover ratio.
McRoberts had 333 assists and 83 turnovers, for a 4.01 assist-to-turnover ratio.

However you look at it, McRoberts had an impressive year as a point forward.

Is McRoberts Miami's answer to our Diaw matchup nightmare then? Seems that way.

[slick'81]

Miami adding some versatility to their bench

[Mr Bones]

Miami adding some versatility to their bench

If Bosh returns, I imagine the Heat will start McRoberts at PF and Bosh at C.

[cd021]

Why is Wade worth 60M? I'd offer him 10M max, and that it's it.
Its not about what he is worth, its about him doing them a solid and opting out of $41 million over the next two seasons.

It could be in that range, maybe $56-$60 million. It wouldn't make any sense for him to opt out without some type of assurance that he'd make significantly more over the course of his next deal.

His value is still above $10 million easily in real market value its probably $ 12-14 million ,a season, anyway. Save for the Finals he was actually very good when he played.

[cd021]

If Bosh returns, I imagine the Heat will start McRoberts at PF and Bosh at C.
Probably or they could bring back Lewis as a starter and try to bolster their bench. Either way they can space the floor like no other team.

[cd021]

Houston offering Bosh a Max deal is beyond comprehension.. Do any of these owners or GM's watch basketball? You are talking about offering a guy max money that did nothing whatsoever in a 5 game beat down that was the 2014 NBA finals.. A guy that has proven to be soft and mediocre in big spots.. A guy that is not dominant in any facet of the game anywhere.. Where is the logic for this max money other than stupid ownership?

Bosh is a perfect fit in Houston and his numbers have been suppressed in Miami. A very good team defender and has added a consistent 3pt shot to his already elite mid range jump shot. If teams believed that they could get him, they probably would pay the max.

He is probably worth 4 years $60 million but overpaying to have a legit title contender for the foreseeable future (Beverly, Harden, Parson,Bosh and Howard stack up with ours and the Thunders starting units very well) with the Spurs having possibly another season and OKC having Duran't hitting free agency in two seasons, it would be ludicrous not to make that offer.

Houston is throwing a 4 year max his way, hoping the money over a shorter span, playing in his home state and around a better core is enough of a selling point.

[benefactor]

Last season, Diaw had 222 assists and 121 turnovers, for a 1.83 assist-to-turnover ratio.
McRoberts had 333 assists and 83 turnovers, for a 4.01 assist-to-turnover ratio.

However you look at it, McRoberts had an impressive year as a point forward.
...against shitty competition as a high usage player on a team that still only finished a couple of games above .500 in the East.

He's a nice bench player and a good passer for a big, but comparing him to Diaw is very much a reach...especially with his assist numbers being a one year anomaly. In fact...one could easily assume he was putting up good numbers on a bad team in order to get paid. Meanwhile, Diaw has been a known commodity as a point forward for his entire career. Diaw's only problem is he get's fat and unmotivated, which seems to get solved when he plays for a winner.

He will help the Heat, but :lol at him being any kind of game changer like Diaw is for the Spurs.

[Josh McRoberts]

I don't spend my free time chomping at burgers and croissants like Diaw does

[cd021]

What's crazy is that 10M is even pushing it, imo.

Dwayne Wade-32 Years Old-19 PPG, 54.5% FG 4.5 RPG, 4.7 APG, 3.0 T.O.Vs, 1.5 SPG 22 P.E.R

Russell Westbrook-25 Years Old-21.8 PPG , 43.7 FG% 6.9 APG, 3.8 T.O.Vs, 1.9 SPG, 5.7 RPG, 24.7 P.E.R. making $15 million next season

Wade is still worth more than $10 million :lol obviously their are injury concerns but he was very good, save for the Finals. Teams would give him up to 14 or 15 million a season in a heartbeat, especially if it were over 3 years. If they believed that he was leaving Miami.

[Mr Bones]

It would be very interesting if Riley decided to let Bosh walk, and replaced him with two or three players in order to gain depth. They could possibly get a combination of players like Greg Monroe, Al Farouq Aminu, and Ekpe Udoh for the same price as Bosh... It would make them an instantly deeper team.

[exstatic]

Good signing. Passing big is still a passing big. Not bad for the MLE. Solid outside stroke too.

Nope. A guy on a bad team who sits at the high post and hits cutters is NOT the same thing as Diaw. If anyone cared about the Bobcats last year, they would have gotten right up into his body. If he puts the ball on the floor, you win. He's not doing anything off the dribble. His passing vision is also impaired and you're right in his face if he want to shoot.

[exstatic]

Dwayne Wade-32 Years Old-19 PPG, 54.5% FG 4.5 RPG, 4.7 APG, 3.0 T.O.Vs, 1.5 SPG 22 P.E.R

Russell Westbrook-25 Years Old-21.8 PPG , 43.7 FG% 6.9 APG, 3.8 T.O.Vs, 1.9 SPG, 5.7 RPG, 24.7 P.E.R. making $15 million next season

Wade is still worth more than $10 million :lol obviously their are injury concerns but he was very good, save for the Finals. Teams would give him up to 14 or 15 million a season in a heartbeat, especially if it were over 3 years. If they believed that he was leaving Miami.

They'd be stupid. Wade was extensively rested, and played a lopsided EC heavy schedule. When it really mattered, and he couldn't rest, he broke down. The above just shows how empty stats can be. If you sign him, you HAVE to know that this year was not an aberration, and that it will only get worse. The starting point is probably a 60 regular season game limit, and a progressive degradation as the comp gets better deep in the playoffs.

[Mr Bones]

...against shitty competition as a high usage player on a team that still only finished a couple of games above .500 in the East.

He's a nice bench player and a good passer for a big, but comparing him to Diaw is very much a reach...especially with his assist numbers being a one year anomaly. In fact...one could easily assume he was putting up good numbers on a bad team in order to get paid. Meanwhile, Diaw has been a known commodity as a point forward for his entire career. Diaw's only problem is he get's fat and unmotivated, which seems to get solved when he plays for a winner.

He will help the Heat, but :lol at him being any kind of game changer like Diaw is for the Spurs.


In McRoberts' first season with Charlotte, he posted the best rebounding numbers of his career. Like Diaw, he's an average rebounder. But in his second season, he was specifically used as a passer in the role of point-forward, and posted the best assists per game average and assist-to-turnover ratio of his career. It's an "anomaly" because it was the first time in his career that he was used in that specific role. He's also only 27 years old. Again, I never said McRoberts was "better" than Diaw. I said they had similar games. Sure there are many factors involved, but it's hard to argue with 111 more assists and 38 fewer turnovers.

[exstatic]

In McRoberts' first season with Charlotte, he posted the best rebounding numbers of his career. Like Diaw, he's an average rebounder. But in his second season, he was specifically used as a passer in the role of point-forward, and posted the best assists per game average and assist-to-turnover ratio of his career. It's an "anomaly" because it was the first time in his career that he was used in that specific role. He's also only 27 years old. Again, I never said McRoberts was "better" than Diaw. I said they had similar games. Sure there are many factors involved, but it's hard to argue with 111 more assists and 38 fewer turnovers.

Not if you realize that Diaw is like one of FIVE OR SIX GUYS that handle the rock here and that he passes on the move, cutting into his a/TO ratio.

[Mr Bones]

Not if you realize that Diaw is like one of FIVE OR SIX GUYS that handle the rock here and that he passes on the move, cutting into his a/TO ratio.


Again, I never said McRoberts was "better" than Diaw. I said they had similar games.

I've never seen a poster so eager to disparage a great assist-to-turnover ratio from a power forward.

[FireMicoHalili]

Nope. A guy on a bad team who sits at the high post and hits cutters is NOT the same thing as Diaw. If anyone cared about the Bobcats last year, they would have gotten right up into his body. If he puts the ball on the floor, you win. He's not doing anything off the dribble. His passing vision is also impaired and you're right in his face if he want to shoot.
Didn't say he was the same thing as Diaw. For starters, McBob didn't kick off his career as an SG/SF like Diaw did, never had the benefit of growing with a French basketball star for a mother. Can't point to Steve Clifford's system since McRoberts has been an efficient passer since his days in Duke. Even if he were a homeless man's version if Diaw, $5M is a bargain for someone younger and more athletic. May not have Diaw's BBIQ but that's what you pay Diaw the extra $2M for. Just because Diaw was the bee's knees in the finals doesn't mean he's the perfect archetype of a passing big. You can bust your nuts arguing for Diaw but I never said he was the same thing. Said he was a passing big; no more, no less.

[Malik Hairston]

They'd be stupid. Wade was extensively rested, and played a lopsided EC heavy schedule. When it really mattered, and he couldn't rest, he broke down. The above just shows how empty stats can be. If you sign him, you HAVE to know that this year was not an aberration, and that it will only get worse. The starting point is probably a 60 regular season game limit, and a progressive degradation as the comp gets better deep in the playoffs.

All that is true, and even then, his actual stats aren't that great:lol..his raw numbers and PER look good, but all his on/off advanced metrics are weak..Wade is just an above average net on/off player at this point, and just getting him to that level requires extensive rest and secondary defenders as opposition..

[exstatic]

I've never seen a poster so eager to disparage a great assist-to-turnover ratio from a power forward.

I don't give two shits about his a/TO ratio. It's the GREATEST IN THE HISTORY OF THE FUCKNG UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you happy? Because having a shiny a/TO ratio doesn't make his game remotely resemble Boris's.

[benefactor]

In McRoberts' first season with Charlotte, he posted the best rebounding numbers of his career. Like Diaw, he's an average rebounder. But in his second season, he was specifically used as a passer in the role of point-forward, and posted the best assists per game average and assist-to-turnover ratio of his career. It's an "anomaly" because it was the first time in his career that he was used in that specific role. He's also only 27 years old. Again, I never said McRoberts was "better" than Diaw. I said they had similar games. Sure there are many factors involved, but it's hard to argue with 111 more assists and 38 fewer turnovers.
Its actually pretty easy to argue when a player plays almost 400 more minutes against shitty teams.

Their games are not the same at all...and one good passing year on a shitty team playing against shitty competition doesn't suddenly change that. Being a good passing big and being a point forward are two completely different things. This also justifies the higher turnover amount, because many times Diaw attempts the kind of passes only point guards can make and he's playing against much better teams.

[dbreiden83080]

Bosh is a perfect fit in Houston and his numbers have been suppressed in Miami. A very good team defender and has added a consistent 3pt shot to his already elite mid range jump shot. If teams believed that they could get him, they probably would pay the max.

He is probably worth 4 years $60 million but overpaying to have a legit title contender for the foreseeable future (Beverly, Harden, Parson,Bosh and Howard stack up with ours and the Thunders starting units very well) with the Spurs having possibly another season and OKC having Duran't hitting free agency in two seasons, it would be ludicrous not to make that offer.

Houston is throwing a 4 year max his way, hoping the money over a shorter span, playing in his home state and around a better core is enough of a selling point.

With James Harden in Houston out there chucking up garbage and Dwight Howard needing his fair share of touches as well you're basically paying Chris bosh $20 million a year to put up about 15 points and seven rebounds. With those two players already in Houston he will play tentative and soft not wanting to step on any toes just like he has in Miami. Excuse me if I'm not exactly swooning over that possibility. It's a complete waste of money

[FireMicoHalili]

Its actually pretty easy to argue when a player plays almost 400 more minutes against shitty teams.

Their games are not the same at all...and one good passing year on a shitty team playing against shitty competition doesn't suddenly change that. Being a good passing big and being a point forward are two completely different things. This also justifies the higher turnover amount, because many times Diaw attempts the kind of passes only point guards can make and he's playing against much better teams.
When arguing from a standpoint of East vs West, it renders the argument practically moot because someone arguing for a WC team can easily disparage an argument with "his numbers don't mean a thing because he's playing against shitty teams". Forgot to take into account the Bobcats, despite winning a small amount of games above .500, were in a division with four playoff teams. Three out of those four teams are probably worse than Phoenix but they played in arguably the East's best division. But then yeah, it's the EC. So this counts for nothing right?

When a player tries to make an assist a point guard tries to make frequently, and botches them against better teams, would you say that player is efficient? Why make risky passes against top flight competition?

Again I'm not arguing McRoberts =< Diaw, simply because I haven't watched the Bobcats all season long to draw a comparison, nor do I pretend to, unlike some who are quite ecstatic about Diaw's game. It however is hard to ignore the fact McRoberts has been solid this year, and his passing may actually prove to be a boon for Miami's offense.

[Mr Bones]

Its actually pretty easy to argue when a player plays almost 400 more minutes against shitty teams.

Their games are not the same at all...and one good passing year on a shitty team playing against shitty competition doesn't suddenly change that. Being a good passing big and being a point forward are two completely different things. This also justifies the higher turnover amount, because many times Diaw attempts the kind of passes only point guards can make and he's playing against much better teams.


I don't give two shits about his a/TO ratio. It's the GREATEST IN THE HISTORY OF THE FUCKNG UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you happy? Because having a shiny a/TO ratio doesn't make his game remotely resemble Boris's.


So you guys are saying there are no similarities at all between Diaw & McRoberts?

McRoberts:
30 mpg, 8.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.3 apg, 36% 3ptFG%, 0.6 bpg, 0.7 spg

Diaw:
25 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 40% 3ptFG%, 0.4 bpg, 0.6 spg


You seriously see no similarities between these two players?

[FireMicoHalili]

So you guys are saying there are no similarities at all between Diaw & McRoberts?

McRoberts:
30 mpg, 8.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.3 apg, 36% 3ptFG%, 0.6 bpg, 0.7 spg

Diaw:
25 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 40% 3ptFG%, 0.4 bpg, 0.6 spg


You seriously see no similarities between these two players?
You're arguing from a statistical standpoint, they're arguing from their personal knowledge of both players' style of play. Easy to see this is going nowhere. Vision test says yes, players are identical with regard to stats. If they say his game remotely resembles Boris' because they've watched both players for a considerate amount of time, no one wins.

[Jwash_1986]

So you guys are saying there are no similarities at all between Diaw & McRoberts?

McRoberts:
30 mpg, 8.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.3 apg, 36% 3ptFG%, 0.6 bpg, 0.7 spg

Diaw:
25 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 40% 3ptFG%, 0.4 bpg, 0.6 spg


You seriously see no similarities between these two players?


Its te pretty close comparison, can't deny that.

[dbreiden83080]

Bosh is a perfect fit in Houston and his numbers have been suppressed in Miami. A very good team defender and has added a consistent 3pt shot to his already elite mid range jump shot.

BTW this right here says one thing to me.. Bosh is being brought in to play a role.. To me Max money is for dominant players that can play anywhere and are expected to carry the load. Not guys being brought in because they fit the system and can play a specific role.. 20 million dollar a year role player. No thanks..

[hater]

Timmy has a better chance of finishing next season healthy and energized than Wade tbh

[FireMicoHalili]

Timmy has a better chance of finishing next season healthy and energized than Wade tbh
:lol

Yet D-Wade may end up making more $$$

[therealtruth]

Why are the Rockets so confident they can unload Lin to get Bosh? He's got a horrible deal.

[Mr Bones]

Why are the Rockets so confident they can unload Lin to get Bosh? He's got a horrible deal.

The 76ers have a very low payroll and a roster full of rookie scale contracts, so they need to pick up some players to get to the league minimum. Lin's only got 1 year left on his contract, so it works for them without hampering them in the future.

[slick'81]

Bosh,Howard and jones would be a nice trio but noway bosh should get max

[spurraider21]

The 76ers have a very low payroll and a roster full of rookie scale contracts, so they need to pick up some players to get to the league minimum. Lin's only got 1 year left on his contract, so it works for them without hampering them in the future.
they can also probably get a pick out of it

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Good signing for the Heat. I really like McRoberts, he should thrive there with Wade and a bunch of scrubs (I feel LBJ and Bosh will leave...)

Are people actually arguing about McBob's deal vs Diaw's deal and going to the stats to do so? Really?

C'mon people - Diaw's contract is fine, and so is McBob's. And no, we wouldn't have been better off saving $2mil that is meaningless in the sense of our cap situation to replace Diaw with a guy who doesn't have Diaw's versatility, nor his scoring touch, nor his chemistry with the team and corporate knowledge. I mean, really? :rolleyes

[benefactor]

So you guys are saying there are no similarities at all between Diaw & McRoberts?

McRoberts:
30 mpg, 8.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.3 apg, 36% 3ptFG%, 0.6 bpg, 0.7 spg

Diaw:
25 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.8 apg, 40% 3ptFG%, 0.4 bpg, 0.6 spg


You seriously see no similarities between these two players?
So you are saying it's the same putting up those kinds of numbers on an NBA Championship team as it is putting up those numbers on the 7th seed in the East?

[Mr Bones]

So you are saying it's the same putting up those kinds of numbers on an NBA Championship team as it is putting up those numbers on the 7th seed in the East?

Nope. I've said again and again that there are similarities between the two, and that they are not "the same," and that I don't think McRoberts is better than Diaw. I don't know why you find this so difficult to understand. Are you saying the two players share no similarities whatsoever?

[Slippy]

can't believe i'm reading this guy compares to Boris. lol

If it's about stats then another reason why stats can be misleading.

[exstatic]

they can also probably get a pick out of it

Capela/Lin/cash for a top 58 protected 2nd rounder. Hinkie used to work for Morey in H-town, so he'll help.

[FireMicoHalili]

So you are saying it's the same putting up those kinds of numbers on an NBA Championship team as it is putting up those numbers on the 7th seed in the East?
There's no trouble regarding Diaw's game is different from McRoberts' but the logic here is terrible. Any stat from a team out in the East - even an EC playoff team at that - has to be disregarded simply because the subject player is playing out east. Every player on a championship automatically makes him the 'better' player. Just because Danny Green made it all the way to the Finals does not automatically make him a better marksman than Kyle Korver, but because of your logic, that appears to be the case.

Another thing: quit putting words on other people's mouths. Anyone could easily just have said that "So are you saying all the players in a championship team are better than all Eastern Conference players?" Or "So are you saying the players on a championship team are incomparable to players from the Eastern Conference?". Though if twisting words is your style that kind of renders this discussion inutile.

So easy for people to applaud the Spurs on re-signing Diaw yet whiff on the fact the Heat signed a passing big in McRoberts for less.

[spurspokesman]

yeah, if this is what the heat thinks seals the deal that's pretty sad. it will take much more than a role player and a PG from UCONN.

That PG from Uconn can be very good and very out of control which usually doesn't translate to the next level, but with some work and effort Bazzy can be a beast. Will it help the Heat? that remains to be seen

[spurspokesman]

Diaw is better hands down and does it when it counts. Spurs don't win no. 5 with out the big boy

[benefactor]

Nope. I've said again and again that there are similarities between the two, and that they are not "the same,"

Boris Diaw is a game changer, and so is McRoberts. It doesn't make sense to say one is and the other isn't-- they're too similar.
You started off saying they were and then backpedaled into "there are similarities.":lol

McRoberts was a good player on a bad team. He's a good passer and shooter. That's where any sort of similarities end. That doesn't make him a point forward like Diaw. He won't defend like Diaw and won't rebound like Diaw(Diaw gets on the glass when it matters, go look at his numbers from the Finals) on a Miami team that already sucks on the boards. He's not going to be any sort of game changer for them. His lack of defense and his lack of rebounding make him a wash as a player...basically a lateral move tbh.

As exstatic pointed out, he's basically a homeless man's version of Diaw at best.

[Raven]

mcbob is more of a hustle player and rebounder and dunker than a passer shooter, he resembles kevin love more than boris diaw tbh. I don't buy his shooting improvements though.

[cd021]

They'd be stupid. Wade was extensively rested, and played a lopsided EC heavy schedule. When it really mattered, and he couldn't rest, he broke down. The above just shows how empty stats can be. If you sign him, you HAVE to know that this year was not an aberration, and that it will only get worse. The starting point is probably a 60 regular season game limit, and a progressive degradation as the comp gets better deep in the playoffs.

Wades scoring and FG% actually improved from the first round to the 2nd round and peaked in the ECF against Indy who was the best defensive team n the NBA.His ECF numbers were identical to the regular season numbers i posted above. I'm not claiming that he is going to be able to play more than 65 games a year but his numbers weren't an aberration.

He didn't play well in the finals,sure, but that doesn't drop his worth below $10 million.

in 74 total games he averaged 18.7 ppg and 52% FG that's still pretty damn good and with continued maintenance and playing as a 3rd option, he can still be very good for the next couple of seasons.

[cd021]

BTW this right here says one thing to me.. Bosh is being brought in to play a role.. To me Max money is for dominant players that can play anywhere and are expected to carry the load. Not guys being brought in because they fit the system and can play a specific role.. 20 million dollar a year role player. No thanks..

They know they probably aren't getting Melo. Persuading Bosh away is the next best thing, if it takes that much then thats what it takes. As constructed they are easily the 4th best team in the west with maybe a healthy Memphis and GSW in the conversation as welll.

Nabbing Bosh makes them a top 3 team in the NBA imo behind us and OKC