Is Mike Trout the best player in baseball?

[AussieFanKurt]

Thoughts?

[The Gemini Method]

Yes. If he isn't, he is right there at the very top. The dude is having a phenomenal season and the Angels are something like 24-9 since May 10th or something. He is a couple RBIs off the lead and apparently has arguably the best line with an OPS of 1.005. I believe he is 5th or 6th in HRs. You can make the argument that Cabrera is the better hitter but even this year's numbers do not support that claim as strongly as in year's past. He has valid protection in the form of a passable version of Pujols and Hamilton, sizzling play from Aybar and Calhoun. He would get my vote as the best player in baseball at the moment. He is also only 22 so imagine him when he actually gets this shit down.

[txstr1986]

And even if Cabrera is the better hitter (a more than plausible assumption), Trout's defense tips the scale.

And he's only 22...

[The Gemini Method]

Probably a great indication of how good this kid is how he cut the bases on his triple--the dude hit the break out of first and second faster than most especially for an exhibition game.

[Clipper Nation]

Can't wait until he forces a trade to the new Expos in a few years :downspin:

[ducks]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233090&p=7443255#post7443255

[JamStone]

Probably. As far as this season goes, Troy Tulowitzki probably the only other guy I'd put in the conversation. As far as all around player, it's either him or Andrew McCutchen. There are still other guys you might be able to make an argument for, like Adrian Beltre even at his age. I think Adam Jones is an underrated guy who is probably in the conversation as far as all around talent. But with Harper and Machado underwhelming this season, Trout doesn't really have much competition among the "younger" phenoms who have shined in the last few seasons. Yasiel Puig is the only other guy I can think of in terms of just overall talent. Based on this season, it's either Trout or Tulo.

Trout may always be a high strikeout guy and while he has a good arm in the outfield, I don't believe it's great, certainly not elite. Those are the two areas he could improve to make him even better. He's not the best hitter but he's among the best. He's not the best outfielder but he's among the best. And if he's not the best baserunner/basestealer, he certainly is up there among the best. So when you look at all of those things, no one should really put up too much of a fight at the notion he is the best.

[Infinite_limit]

http://10thingsithinkithink.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/chipper-jones.jpg

[Chris]

Sorry Jam, but Troy Tulowitzki? :lol Great hitter and great defense, possible MVP season, terrible baserunner. Mike Trout is the total package, a 5 tool player, but how can he be the best player in baseball right now? They Angels haven't won shit; haven't done shit. Why do pitchers automatically get eliminated from the conversation? Baseball is so much of a team game, that the best player will never be applicable imo. The best team wins always. If you want to find the best player in something, watch Tennis or Golf.

[JamStone]

Sorry Jam, but Troy Tulowitzki? :lol Great hitter and great defense, possible MVP season, terrible baserunner. Mike Trout is the total package, a 5 tool player, but how can he be the best player in baseball right now? They Angels haven't won shit; haven't done shit. Why do pitchers automatically get eliminated from the conversation? Baseball is so much of a team game, that the best player will never be applicable imo. The best team wins always. If you want to find the best player in something, watch Tennis or Golf.

I don't think a player has to be a 5-tool guy to be considered the best player in the game. I mentioned Tulo as possibly the best player in the game, not a guy that has all 5 tools. The guys I mentioned as all around players with 5 tools other than Trout were McCutchen and Puig. What I was saying about Tulo was that other than Trout, he might be the best player in baseball. And again to my point about Trout being a 5-tool player, it's often suggested without consideration to his arm. His arm isn't anything special. He might be average or slightly above average at throwing, but I wouldn't put him in the class of a Puig or someone like Jeff Francoeur. If Trout's power, hitting, fielding, and speed are all A or A+ grades, his throwing is probably a B. Are baserunners afraid to run on him? Does he have the cannon and accuracy that really puts his arm in the elite category of outfielders? Now, but he's still called a 5-tool guy without even a hint of contention. Same with Tulo. He has 4 categories covered, but not baserunning or speed. Maybe his grade there is quite a bit lower, but all the same he grades high in 4 tools.

As far as Trout not winning shit yet, LeBron was considered the best player in basketball before he won shit. Team sport, winning and championships are team accomplishments. Being the best player doesn't necessarily require team success. You even said baseball is such a team sport and yet you eliminate Trout from being the best "player." Doesn't make sense.

I'm no Trout fan, but I have no issue calling him the best player in baseball.

[Fabbs]

It's Trout, but you guys think the Cuban rookies sample size is too small to put him in the conversation?

Puig has to learn how to run the bases.

[Robz4000]

You have to include pitchers imo. Therefore it'd be Kershaw. Otherwise I'd go with Trout or McCutchen.

[Robz4000]

It's Trout, but you guys think the Cuban rookies sample size is too small to put him in the conversation?

Puig has to learn how to run the bases.

Rookie from the White Sox? He may be in two years or so. Puig is a fucking joke.

[Clipper Nation]

Why do pitchers automatically get eliminated from the conversation?
I've always wondered that too, it's like how goalies are pretty much never in the best NHL player conversation....

[ducks]

You have to include pitchers imo. Therefore it'd be Kershaw. Otherwise I'd go with Trout or McCutchen.

mccutechen overated

[AussieFanKurt]

Rookie from the White Sox? He may be in two years or so. Puig is a fucking joke.

agreed.. overrated as tbh

[txstr1986]

Mike Trout, Albert Pujols mock Fernando Rodney's arrow celebration

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/7/21/5922537/mike-trout-albert-pujols-mock-fernando-rodney-arrow-celebration

[Chris]

:cry Jeter wouldn't have done that :cry Thought Mike Trout was classy :cry

[MultiTroll]

Originally Posted by Fabbs

It's Trout, but you guys think the Cuban rookies sample size is too small to put him in the conversation?


Rookie from the White Sox? He may be in two years or so. Puig is a fucking joke.
You still think Cubas sample size is too small? Or that he is doing it for non contender?

[Robz4000]

Originally Posted by Fabbs


You still think Cubas sample size is too small? Or that he is doing it for non contender?

He's pretty good, buts its still to early. If he puts up big numbers for the next two seasons, then we'll talk.

[MultiTroll]

He's pretty good, buts its still to early. If he puts up big numbers for the next two seasons, then we'll talk.
Good point. I think he will continue to rock, but until he does....
Just like Puig lit it up last season and now this season he doing pretty good compared to the averaga, but no where near "best player" convo.

[Avante]

I don't follow basball at all/none/zero and this is and will be the only time I've ever talked baseball on the internet (other than Cool Papa Bell, ha!) and I have heard of Mike Trout............for what it's worth.

[King Emmanuel]

I don't follow basball at all/none/zero and this is and will be the only time I've ever talked baseball on the internet (other than Cool Papa Bell, ha!) and I have heard of Mike Trout............for what it's worth.

shut up fatass

[Infinite_limit]

http://lifetimetopps.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/jose-canseco.jpg

[Pelicans78]

Alex Gordon

[JamStone]

In terms of overall talent, I don't think you can argue against Trout. However, that said, even though he probably will win the AL MVP, his season hasn't been all that great. He's hitting well under .300 and unless he goes on an absolute tear the last three weeks, he'll probably end up under .300. His strikeouts are way up. His steals (one of the arguments for him being the best player in the league) are way down. And for a second season in a row, he is posting a negative defensive WAR, another one of the reasons why he's been lauded as the best. Aside from HR and RBI, the rest of his metrics suggest he's nowhere near as good as he was the previous two seasons.

If I had an AL MVP vote, I'd vote for Trout. But part of that is because there aren't any other great candidates to choose from. Abreu and Victor Martinez have been clearly and better offensively, but don't offer much if anything in the field and both play on teams currently out of the playoff picture. Alex Gordon might have the only legitimate case against Trout since he's putting up "good" offensive numbers, has been stellar defensively, and his team is also leading their division, but he's not close to Trout imo.

If Trout posted this season's numbers in the previous 2 years, he probably isn't even in the AL MVP discussion. But for this season, there really are no better candidates.

[MultiTroll]

Pelicans 78
Alex Gordon


Alex Gordon might have the only legitimate case against Trout since he's putting up "good" offensive numbers, has been stellar defensively, and his team is also leading their division, but he's not close to Trout imo.
Are you guys trolling or is his defense otherworldly?
Offensively he is like 40th+ in the big catagories.

76th in ave. Altho he is 37th in on base %
43rd in HRs (tied with 10 players :lol )
56th in RBIs.

Runs scored he is 28th with 77.

[Pelicans78]

Pelicans 78


Are you guys trolling or is his defense otherworldly?
Offensively he is like 40th+ in the big catagories.

76th in ave. Altho he is 37th in on base %
43rd in HRs (tied with 10 players :lol )
56th in RBIs.

Runs scored he is 28th with 77.

Those are terrible stats to look at offensively. RBIs and runs scored are dependant on teammates. Those stats are outdated just like batting average. His OPS and OPS+ are very good and his defense is otherwordly this season.

[MultiTroll]

RBIs and runs scored are dependant on teammates.
Makes Trouts RBIs (1st) and runs scored (1st) very impressive. Batting from the 2 spot. For a good part of the season 3 Pujols and 4 Hamilton were cold.

Otherwise i agree with Jamstone. Trouts strikeouts are career worst and his average the last two months has been his worst months by spades. Keeping up the HRs tho :toast Career best.

[Fabbs]

Those are terrible stats to look at offensively. RBIs and runs scored are dependant on teammates. Those stats are outdated just like batting average. His OPS and OPS+ are very good and his defense is otherwordly this season.
.942 Trouty Trouts current OPS vs Gordons .792
Gordons is very good. Trouts is elite.

[Fabbs]

If Trout posted this season's numbers in the previous 2 years, he probably isn't even in the AL MVP discussion. But for this season, there really are no better candidates.
While true Trout keeps piling up the strikeouts and his ave stays around .285-.290, his power numbers from the #2 spot are excellent in any damn year.
33 HRs make him 2nd place among non DH American Leaguers. 4th overall and just one behind the Cuban rookie at 34.
105 RBIs 1st.
105 runs 1st
.942 OPS 3rd.
*edit Trout just hit his second HR of the game in his 2nd at bat to put Jerred Weaver up 2-1.


In a year when it seems no blown up PED - steroid type stats are being posted, Trouts #s are excellent.
Put it this way Jamstone, what other years has a player been 1st, 1st, 2nd and 3rd in these main catagories while playing excellent (fine, lower it to "very good" or even "good") defense? While there can still be some flip flopping in the remaining 15 games......
Not many years i'm sure.

[JamStone]

Put it this way Jamstone, what other years has a player been 1st, 1st, 2nd and 3rd in these main catagories while playing excellent (fine, lower it to "very good" or even "good") defense? While there can still be some flip flopping in the remaining 15 games......
Not many years i'm sure.

Didn't say Trout's numbers aren't excellent. I said in the previous two years, he probably isn't in the AL MVP discussion (I'll amend it to not being in the AL MVP discussion nearly as much as he was if that makes it sound better). That was also before he took over the RBI lead in the AL. But my statement was specific to the previous two years. Remember, Chris Davis posted 53, 138, with a 1.004 OPS and Miggy had 44, 137, and a 1.078 OPS last season. In 2012, Miggy with 44, 139, and .999 OPS, Josh Hamilton with 43 and 128.

Even if Trout goes buckwild the last dozen or so games and puts up close to 40 and 120 and over .950 OPS, he's not 1st or 2nd in HR, RBI, or OPS the previous two seasons. For this season, he's the MVP. I already said that in an earlier post. I stand by my statement that the season he's having right now wouldn't merit as much AL MVP consideration as he got the previous two seasons. And while from the eye test, his defense is still good, metrics says it's not. And he's not stealing bases at the crazy rate he did the previous two years.

So the comment stands and seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Fabbs]

Put it this way Jamstone, what other years has a player been 1st, 1st, 2nd and 3rd in these main catagories while playing excellent (fine, lower it to "very good" or even "good") defense?
Not many years i'm sure.
I agree with your statements about Trout (and others including the very same Miggy and Hamilton, Chris Davis which we now know was obviously PED enhanced etc). Just seems like this year maybe the PED use is down. Regardless.....
I'm bringing up the above stats meaning how one does as to other players in the same season.
Im not expecting you to know, nor do i know here and now tonight were to find such an answer.

[JamStone]

I agree with your statements about Trout (and others including the very same Miggy and Hamilton, Chris Davis which we now know was obviously PED enhanced etc). Just seems like this year maybe the PED use is down. Regardless.....
I'm bringing up the above stats meaning how one does as to other players in the same season.
Im not expecting you to know, nor do i know here and now tonight were to find such an answer.

You quoted me as if to make a counterargument...

I don't know how many other times it has happened. Chris Davis did it last season and he's considered a pretty good defensive first baseman. Miggy obviously did it the previous year, but he was a well below average third baseman. I'd imagine A-Rod, Barry, and Ken Griffey had seasons where they were right there are close, whether you want to consider A-Rod and Barry due to their connections with PEDs, although A-Rod probably did it while in Texas when his link to PEDs may or may not have started yet. And didn't Vlad Guerrero have one of those seasons early on in his Angels career when he was still considered a good RFer?

[Fabbs]

You quoted me as if to make a counterargument...

I don't know how many other times it has happened. Chris Davis did it last season and he's considered a pretty good defensive first baseman. Miggy obviously did it the previous year, but he was a well below average third baseman. I'd imagine A-Rod, Barry, and Ken Griffey had seasons where they were right there are close, whether you want to consider A-Rod and Barry due to their connections with PEDs, although A-Rod probably did it while in Texas when his link to PEDs may or may not have started yet. And didn't Vlad Guerrero have one of those seasons early on in his Angels career when he was still considered a good RFer?
Vlads best stat season was with Montreal around 2001 when he had like 45 / 123 .345 OPS of over 1000. Would not surprise me if it was enhanced since it was right in that era.

Bonds i do not recognize any of his records.
A-Rod is such a proven liar, who knows. Texas could have been for real but who knows. Anything that comes out of his, Bonds or Clemons mouth re PEDs is suspect.

Miggys O stats in his MVP and near Triple Crown year has to be right up there in same year stat history.
I think Trouts stats in relation to same year players is gonna be right up there.