Reports: Cavs Now Offering Wiggins for K. Love; Trade Could Come Soon

[BatManu20]

Tough move on Cavs part imo but will be a done deal soon is so. Huge win for the Twolves if this goes through. Love was going to walk for nothing.

489908960351510528

489852073807056896

489911240635187200

[Kool Bob Love]

Not everyone can be Duncan and make their rookie teammates better. Lol lebron.

[The Gemini Method]

Probably stoked by the word that Golden State was going all out for him and now expected to include Klay T. in the talks...

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol come on... I really wanted to see Davis/Noel and LeBron/Wiggins...

Damn Kevin Love is so overrated.

[r-nice]

Cavs would be fools to trade him.

[BatManu20]

Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.

[ducks]

cavs would be better off letting gs get him
good move making gs give up klay thompson

[Mugen]

Either side saying no to this deal would be retarded tbh.

[Phillip]

Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.

Interesting.

The trade would definitely limit some of their future potential, but a lineup of Irving, Martin, Lebron, Love, and Varejao? The offense will be absurdly good since Martin and Love both can shoot and play well off the ball. The rebounding will be incredible as well.

[StrengthAndHonor]

I'd hold on to Wiggins for now. Love is great but the Cavs will probably get the same production from Thompson, Waiters and Bennett. These kids' stock will rise once they play with Lebron. Develop the younger guys for the first half of the season and if Love is still available use them as trade chips. Wiggins has way too much potential to be traded for a one dimensional player.



The Cavs are in the driver seat, not the Wolves.

[DPG21920]

Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.

Don't care what happens with Wiggins, that is a very good trade for both IMO. You have to give up Wiggins to get Love and IMO it's worth it. Love is clearly a top 15 player and for a team that wants to balance winning now with growing, giving up a rookie for Love is great.

Martin isn't great, but should fit very well alongside a guy like Bron. Brewer, while not great, is a decent role player that will at least attempt to defend and can run the floor.

Getting Bennett/Wiggins/1st is also solid for Minny. I'm not sold on Wiggins, but Minny needs young prospects and there are no guarantees on those guys. They just need one or two to pan out and they need to draft well. Then they need to make competent moves.

[ducks]

cavs need a chandler then they would be set not love

[BatManu20]

See ya Wiggins

489917965043646464

[Phillip]

I'd hold on to Wiggins for now. Love is great but the Cavs will probably get the same production from Thompson, Waiters and Bennett. These kids' stock will rise once they play with Lebron. Develop the younger guys for the first half of the season and if Love is still available use them as trade chips. Wiggins has way too much potential to be traded for a one dimensional player.

The Cavs are in the driver seat, not the Wolves.

This. I would personally not dive right into this trade either, especially if Thompson, Bennett and Wiggins show signs that this can and will work.

However, if they DID do the trade, it would be hard not to say the Cavs become the favorites this season.

[DPG21920]

Kyrie/Waiters/Bron/Love/Andy

Bench: Dellavedova/Kevin Martin/Corey Brewer/Tristan Thompson/Mike Miller bench?

[RD2191]

See ya Wiggins

489917965043646464
Begging for help a la Kobe. Neither of these fucks are top 10. Duncan, the last Alpha.

[ducks]

See ya Wiggins

489916978774044672

james afraid to lead a team with youngster by himself
AFRAID OF FAILURE
afraid of the long process a year or two longer without love in the weak east

[DDS4]

This might make the Warriors cave in and include Klay Thompson. Things just got juicy.

[ducks]

love has already tweeted he would sign extension with the cavs

[ducks]

This. I would personally not dive right into this trade either, especially if Thompson, Bennett and Wiggins show signs that this can and will work.

However, if they DID do the trade, it would be hard not to say the Cavs become the favorites this season.
favorites in east or the hole thing?

[024]

Cavs management has never been particularly bright. They are so insecure about Lebron leaving that they pull the trigger on any trade without thinking about long term consequences.

[ducks]

james went home because he thought and is playing gm also

[BatManu20]

Kyrie/Waiters/Bron/Love/Andy

Bench: Dellavedova/Kevin Martin/Corey Brewer/Tristan Thompson/Mike Miller bench?

After some gelling, automatic team to beat in the East imo. So much hinges on Derrick Rose's health though. Unless something changes, I think Indy got worse this offseason losing Stephenson and not addressing the PG position.

[ducks]

james is a fucking selfish prick

[BatManu20]

love has already tweeted he would sign extension with the cavs

Yea they obv wouldn't make this trade without a long-term deal in place for Love.

[Phillip]

favorites in east or the hole thing?

http://sweets.seriouseats.com/images/20110313-142295-Dough-DonutHoles.jpg

[BatManu20]

Cavs summer-league team about to play on NBATV. Wiggins suited up and ready to go so obviously nothing is imminent at this point.

[DPG21920]

james afraid to lead a team with youngster by himself
AFRAID OF FAILURE
afraid of the long process a year or two longer without love in the weak east

Cavs would still be incredibly young. Kyrie/Waiters/Thompson are very young. Love is only 25. It's a good blend of young and experience which is what you need to make the jump. On value alone, it's hard to say Wiggins ever becomes the player Love is. He could, but if you can essentially guarantee your #1 pick turning out to be as good as Love, IMO you do that.

If it doesn't work, he's extremely tradeable. If he works, you have a young legit number two option to go with James and plenty of young guys to sustain (Kyrie, Waiters, Thompson). Plus they have plenty of draft picks to add cheap talent:


2015 first round draft pick from Memphis

Memphis' 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019 [Cleveland-Memphis, 1/22/2013]

2015 first round draft pick from Miami

Miami's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-10 in 2015 or 1-10 in 2016 or unprotected in 2017 [Cleveland-Miami, 7/9/2010]

2015 second round draft pick from Boston

Boston's 2015 2nd round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Boston's obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [Boston-Brooklyn-Cleveland, 7/10/2014]

2016 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers

L.A. Clippers' 2016 2nd round pick to Cleveland (via New Orleans) protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then the L.A. Clippers' obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [L.A. Clippers-New Orleans, 8/12/2009 and then Cleveland-New Orleans, 7/11/2014]

Eventually, IMO having too many young good players is a problem (due to being able to keep them/pay them, trade them (with low contract values while getting good return) - especially when the goal is to make the jump from potential to contender. Love talent wise is a guarantee and while Wiggins in theory is a great fit with Lebron/Cavs, it's no guarantee.

[The Gemini Method]

What long term consequences? They got their prodigal son back and are trying to bring in a 2nd superstar to couple with the best player in the world and a rising PG. That's ensuring the future. Im not sold on Wiggins but if you think he's going to be anything more than an occasional all-star then I stand corrected. I don't see him being a superstar or HoF type player. If he becomes that then Cleveland would be at fault.

[BatManu20]

Lebron has made it apparent that he wants K. Love in Cleveland. That's all that really needs to be said at this point tbh. The Cavs are going to make this trade happen.

[Phillip]

Cavs would still be incredibly young. Kyrie/Waiters/Thompson are very young. Love is only 25. It's a good blend of young and experience which is what you need to make the jump. On value alone, it's hard to say Wiggins ever becomes the player Love is. He could, but if you can essentially guarantee your #1 pick turning out to be as good as Love, IMO you do that.

If it doesn't work, he's extremely tradeable. If he works, you have a young legit number two option to go with James and plenty of young guys to sustain (Kyrie, Waiters, Thompson). Plus they have plenty of draft picks to add cheap talent:



Eventually, IMO having too many young good players is a problem (due to being able to keep them/pay them, trade them (with low contract values while getting good return) - especially when the goal is to make the jump from potential to contender. Love talent wise is a guarantee and while Wiggins in theory is a great fit with Lebron/Cavs, it's no guarantee.

Well put.

Whatever choice they make, they should be fine. Making the trade probably guarantees more instant success, while keeping put is a more higher risk/higher reward decision.

[Clipper Nation]

Fucking retarded move by the Cavs, they're clearly still the dumbasses they were when LeBron left.... this is why Kang needed to force his way to the Clippers :bang

[DPG21920]

I'd hold on to Wiggins for now. Love is great but the Cavs will probably get the same production from Thompson, Waiters and Bennett. These kids' stock will rise once they play with Lebron. Develop the younger guys for the first half of the season and if Love is still available use them as trade chips. Wiggins has way too much potential to be traded for a one dimensional player.



The Cavs are in the driver seat, not the Wolves.

Even if you believe that, Cavs aren't giving up Thompson in the deal reported. So do you think that Bennet/Wiggins is going to give them the same production as Love/Brewer/Kevin Martin? If you are talking about value, sure, this puts CLE is some serious cap hell over the next two years, but they will be young and legit contenders with a lot of tradeable players (Kyrie, Waiters, Love ect..).

Depth is critical in the NBA. This gets CLE more top tier talent (Love), vets and depth (Brewer/Martin). Bennett may improve, but he looked historically bad so far. So really, the only thing that seems likely to suck giving up is Wiggins/1st rounder.

[Mr Bones]

I agree that Love has some liabilities-- mainly on the defensive end, and largely having to do with effort-- but calling him a "one dimensional" player is kinda ridiculous. He can score inside and out, he's a great rebounder, a great outlet passer, and a good passer generally. There's no way anyone can honestly say he's one-dimensional.

[BatManu20]

I agree that Love has some liabilities-- mainly on the defensive end, and largely having to do with effort-- but calling him a "one dimensional" player is kinda ridiculous. He can score inside and out, he's a great rebounder, a great outlet passer, and a good passer generally. There's no way anyone can honestly say he's one-dimensional.

Offensively, Love is the total package at the PF position.

And what also has to be taken into account here is he's going to be even better playing with Lebron (as are all Lebron's teammates). But that's a perfect fit for Love and instantly makes CLE better.

[Mugen]

Wiggins isn't even in Cleveland if Embiid doesn't get hurt. It's a no-brainer for the Cavs...

[SupremeGuy]

Seeing either the Warriors or Cavs shoot themselves in the foot for Kevin Love is going to bring me the lulz... Wonder who it will be? :lol

[DPG21920]

The only way this blows up in CLE's face is if Wiggins turns into a legit superstar (talking a legit top 3 option on a playoff team) AND Love completely doesn't fit with CLE and makes a scene/leaves. That seems (with what we know currently) a highly unlikely scenario.

I also don't get the entire argument of "Bosh was negated with Lebron". While true numbers wise, that limitation of Bosh did not result in anything negative. It resulted in MIA having the best 3rd option in the league and going to 4 straight finals. While Bosh is a better fit with MIA than Love is with CLE (due to Bosh being a solid defender and that being a need) I don't see Love coming preventing results (even if Love's numbers dip some because of usage rate dipping).

It's a legit concern about defense with that CLE squad, but the offense should be unreal. Like the Spurs shifting (although I think the Spurs defense over the last 3 years will be better than CLE's) from defense to offense, I think CLE's offense will offset the defense enough to advance very far if healthy.

Plus, if they can trade for or get surprising help with a cheap FA on defense, that could change quickly.

[Chinook]

Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.

That deal is not even close to possible. It's something like $4 Million out and $25 Million in. And Cleveland doesn't really have spare salary to send anymore.

[Captivus]

Cavs management has never been particularly bright. They are so insecure about Lebron leaving that they pull the trigger on any trade without thinking about long term consequences.

Agree. They are probably thinking Wiggins will leave ASAP...so...

Regardless...that team will be fun to watch.

[Kool Bob Love]

Fucking retarded move by the Cavs, they're clearly still the dumbasses they were when LeBron left.... this is why Kang needed to force his way to the Clippers :bang
This is Lebron's doing. He can't take a rook under his wing and make him great, that's reserved for the Duncan's of the world.

[ducks]

http://sweets.seriouseats.com/images/20110313-142295-Dough-DonutHoles.jpg

sorry spurs beat cavs 4 out of 5 times

[Chinook]

This is Lebron's doing. He can't take a rook under his wing and make him great, that's reserved for the Duncan's of the world.

People don't want to admit it, but a big reason why Cleveland's roster sucked those years was because they let James call the shots. GMs need to ignore their players when it comes to roster moves.

[ducks]

amazing no one has seen this team play together and they since they have james they will win the hole thing when he is batting .500 in the finals

[jimbo]

Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.

Salaries aren't even close to matching up in that, and the Cavs don't have anyone to add that would make it close.

Benett = 5.563 Mil
Wiggins = I don't know if he's been signed yet, but probably around the same

vs

Love = 15.7
Martin = 6.8
Brewer = 4.7

Without getting another team involved, the Cavs-Wolves trade difference would have to be under 5 mil more going to Cleveland. (Ex: Cavs send 11, receive 16)

There's no way the Cavs would be that stupid even if they did want Love. 2 days ago - "Wiggins is off the table", Today - "Not only is Wiggins back on the table, but we're willing to give you last year's 1st overall pick and another pick and take on all your expirings"

[jimbo]

^ all disregarding that the Cavs shouldn't do Wiggins for Love too.

[jimbo]

amazing no one has seen this team play together and they since they have james they will win the hole thing when he is batting .500 in the finals

I'd rather have a .01 record w/ fuckin Victorias Secret models than have never gotten turned down by one tbh.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Even if you believe that, Cavs aren't giving up Thompson in the deal reported. So do you think that Bennet/Wiggins is going to give them the same production as Love/Brewer/Kevin Martin? If you are talking about value, sure, this puts CLE is some serious cap hell over the next two years, but they will be young and legit contenders with a lot of tradeable players (Kyrie, Waiters, Love ect..).

Depth is critical in the NBA. This gets CLE more top tier talent (Love), vets and depth (Brewer/Martin). Bennett may improve, but he looked historically bad so far. So really, the only thing that seems likely to suck giving up is Wiggins/1st rounder.

The proposed deal is different to what it was reported before. Adding Brewer and Martin obviously changes things as they are experienced players, critical to going deep in the playoffs.

But ask yourself. Is Martin and Brewer the type of players you'd want on a team aspiring or building a championship team? A roster of Irving, Lebron and Waiters plus Kevin Love? This is a horrible defensive team. All players requires a high usage rate to be effective and none has any intention of playing defense, minus Lebron obviously.


Nothing in this deal screams "improvement". It's a lateral move that puts the Cavs in cap hell while also losing the #1 pick of the draft.

No deal IMO.

[Clipper Nation]

I still don't get the hysteria over trading for Love.... the guy's a blatant stat-padder who refuses to play defense (not to mention a locker room cancer), are teams really that desperate for a "name"?

I also love how the justification is that Wiggins is too young and inexperienced to be counted on in a championship window, as if Love has so much playoff experience under his belt :lol

[DPG21920]

The proposed deal is different to what it was reported before. Adding Brewer and Martin obviously changes things as they are experienced players, critical to going deep in the playoffs.

But ask yourself. Is Martin and Brewer the type of players you'd want on a team aspiring or building a championship team? A roster of Irving, Lebron and Waiters plus Kevin Love? This is a horrible defensive team. All players requires a high usage rate to be effective and none has any intention of playing defense, minus Lebron obviously.


Nothing in this deal screams "improvement". It's a lateral move that puts the Cavs in cap hell while also losing the #1 pick of the draft.

No deal IMO.

Well you aren't the only one who thinks it's dumb to give up Wiggins for Love, but I respectfully disagree. I really don't see how you can say swapping an NBA Rookie for Kevin Love is lateral in terms of winning now.

[baseline bum]

I'd hate to give up Bennett too, now that he's in shape. I'd like the deal better if it was Wiggins+Waiters for Love considering Waiters is a cancer. He already said on twitter he wouldn't accept a bench role, which is where he'd be if Martin comes as part of the deal. Too bad they're married to Thompson and a huge deal for him, as Rich Paul represents him. But to get a 25 year old Kevin Love even if you have to give up both #1s, it's probably worth it. What a devastating transition team they'd be with Love's outlet passing, James and Irving taking it to the basket, and guys like Martin, Miller, Allen spotting up in the corners.

[DPG21920]

I still don't get the hysteria over trading for Love.... the guy's a blatant stat-padder who refuses to play defense (not to mention a locker room cancer), are teams really that desperate for a "name"?

I also love how the justification is that Wiggins is too young and inexperienced to be counted on in a championship window, as if Love has so much playoff experience under his belt :lol

Sure, while I agree that Love is overrated, that doesn't mean he isn't really good. Overrated does not equal bad. Even being overrated, Love still has incredible advanced statistical impact off/on and is a top 15 player. Also, it's not about playoff experience. It's about overall NBA experience, polish and development. Name the last rookie that played a significant role on a championship team.

[Chinook]

Salaries aren't even close to matching up in that, and the Cavs don't have anyone to add that would make it close.

Benett = 5.563 Mil
Wiggins = I don't know if he's been signed yet, but probably around the same

vs

Love = 15.7
Martin = 6.8
Brewer = 4.7

Without getting another team involved, the Cavs-Wolves trade difference would have to be under 5 mil more going to Cleveland. (Ex: Cavs send 11, receive 16)

There's no way the Cavs would be that stupid even if they did want Love. 2 days ago - "Wiggins is off the table", Today - "Not only is Wiggins back on the table, but we're willing to give you last year's 1st overall pick and another pick and take on all your expirings"

Wiggins' salary can't count, because after he's signed, he can't be trade him for a month. Including Varejao would help

[HI-FI]

People don't want to admit it, but a big reason why Cleveland's roster sucked those years was because they let James call the shots. GMs need to ignore their players when it comes to roster moves. Russ had touched on that earlier in a post upstairs. Lerbon's groupies won't admit it but he helped contribute to the shitty rosters with short sighted moves. Not sure if this is a smart move or not. it seems like history repeating itself but possible it could pan out. I imagine if Lebron can simply get one title with Cavs, he'll feel he accomplished his goal instead of building a potential dynasty with Wiggins, someone he doesn't know too well.

[DPG21920]

I'd hate to give up Bennett too, now that he's in shape. I'd like the deal better if it was Wiggins+Waiters for Love considering Waiters is a cancer. He already said on twitter he wouldn't accept a bench role, which is where he'd be if Martin comes as part of the deal. Too bad they're married to Thompson and a huge deal for him, as Rich Paul represents him. But to get a 25 year old Kevin Love even if you have to give up both #1s, it's probably worth it. What a devastating transition team they'd be with Love's outlet passing, James and Irving taking it to the basket, and guys like Martin, Miller, Allen spotting up in the corners.

Thompson is very much worth his contract. He has become a pretty useful player and that's a good thing, especially for that position with the Cavs. I don't see how (as Chinook pointed out) how they can do a big deal with Minny straight up, so your proposal is pretty close to what it will end up as if it's a 2-team trade IMO.

But I'd rather give up Bennett than Waiters. Waiters has a lot of talent and while there may be some attitude problems, I would imagine a strong leader like Bron and winning will probably cure that. Even then, they could start him and make him happy anyways.

I read the "tweet" about Waiters not starting. I feel it was very irresponsible reporting and they really made that up. If you read the tweet in context, he never said anything close to he refuses to not start.

[Chinook]

Russ had touched on that earlier in a post upstairs. Lerbon's groupies won't admit it but he helped contribute to the shitty rosters with short sighted moves. Not sure if this is a smart move or not. it seems like history repeating itself but possible it could pan out. I imagine if Lebron can simply get one title with Cavs, he'll feel he accomplished his goal instead of building a potential dynasty with Wiggins, someone he doesn't know too well.

Also, I'm not sure Love actually reups with the Cavs after James took his short deal. It makes more sense for him to just agree to opt in to his final year and hit free agency at the same time as James.

[baseline bum]

Thompson is very much worth his contract. He has become a pretty useful player and that's a good thing, especially for that position with the Cavs. I don't see how (as Chinook pointed out) how they can do a big deal with Minny straight up, so your proposal is pretty close to what it will end up as if it's a 2-team trade IMO.

But I'd rather give up Bennett than Waiters. Waiters has a lot of talent and while there may be some attitude problems, I would imagine a strong leader like Bron and winning will probably cure that. Even then, they could start him and make him happy anyways.

I read the "tweet" about Waiters not starting. I feel it was very irresponsible reporting and they really made that up. If you read the tweet in context, he never said anything close to he refuses to not start.

But Thompson isn't going to be worth the extension Rich Paul will negotiate.

[DPG21920]

Bennett looking like Zach Randolph in Summer League to be honest...Really moving well and showing some nice things for a guy his size. He's not too athletic and is undersized, but has a pretty good handle for that size and is showing some nice footwork and offense.

[vander]

I don't know why I'm starting to care about this, but Cavs should stay put. they won't win next year anyways, and does Wiggins really need more than a year or two to reach all-star level?

[DPG21920]

I have no problem with CLE waiting and playing hardball either. Especially if they think MIN really values Wiggins more than anyone and you don't think anyone else will offer up anything more enticing for a while. While they may not be able to keep Wiggins, the may save themselves another asset.

But if they have to give up Wiggins, I think it's worth it.

[DPG21920]

But Thompson isn't going to be worth the extension Rich Paul will negotiate.

Then it seems like a good trade asset to get a defensive minded wing player IMO..

[RD2191]

I don't know why I'm starting to care about this, but Cavs should stay put. they won't win next year anyways, and does Wiggins really need more than a year or two to reach all-star level?
Who says he ever does? Clevelands only shot at a title is with LeBron. LeBron/Wiggins or LeBron/Love. One is more of a sure thing. Imo the Cavs should go for it.

[DPG21920]

Also, even if Wiggins pans out and Love doesn't, you still have the asset that is Love. You can mitigate a lot of any potential damage because of that.

[DPG21920]

Also, I get people wanting to see Lebron/Wiggins. That has so much potential and can be exciting. But, as much as I might not be in Love with Love (I know..), does no one want to see what Love can do on a playoff team? I'm a fan of the NBA and I want to see that.

It will either be incredibly exciting or give us a lot of ammo to rip on Love. We win either way.

[jimbo]

Wiggins' salary can't count, because after he's signed, he can't be trade him for a month. Including Varejao would help

Didn't realize that, but that makes the trade even less likely to happen now imo. The Cavs won't trade Varejao. They didn't after his monster start 2 years ago when he was at the peak of his value. Varejao + those two benchwarmers they have signed + Wiggins for Love would work, but that leaves the Cavs in an even worse win-now position imo if they can't get a third team to give em a center.

[Mal]

Wolves got some nerves. Love is walkin away next year, and they still dictate terms. Wiggins, Bennett and picks and they get rid of Martin`s bad contract ? Wow

On the other hand Cavs are like 2k Sport "GM`s" who got 99 skill player and will trade anything for another 90+ player. And they will have Waiters and Thompson for only 1 year after that trade.

[Chinook]

Didn't realize that, but that makes the trade even less likely to happen now imo. The Cavs won't trade Varejao. They didn't after his monster start 2 years ago when he was at the peak of his value. Varejao + those two benchwarmers they have signed + Wiggins for Love would work, but that leaves the Cavs in an even worse win-now position imo if they can't get a third team to give em a center.

They can't trade anyone they signed until the 15th of December. So this thing is going to drag out unless Golden State gets him.

[jimbo]

Who says he ever does? Clevelands only shot at a title is with LeBron. LeBron/Wiggins or LeBron/Love. One is more of a sure thing. Imo the Cavs should go for it.

Eh, the Miami Lebrons had enough offense to win the title--they just couldn't defend worth a lick. I don't see how the new Cavs would be any better than last years' Heat in defense. They're worse in nearly every area except probably SG. (Never cared enough to know if Waiters can play D, but I assume he's a relatively mobile human being)

[RD2191]

Eh, the Miami Lebrons had enough offense to win the title--they just couldn't defend worth a lick. I don't see how the new Cavs would be any better than last years' Heat in defense. They're worse in nearly every area except probably SG. (Never cared enough to know if Waiters can play D, but I assume he's a relatively mobile human being)
How many teams in the East are offensive threats?

[Thread]

How many teams in the East are offensive threats?

Your mother's breath and a bull's fart for one.

[jimbo]

They can't trade anyone they signed until the 15th of December. So this thing is going to drag out unless Golden State gets him.

Carrick Felix + Matthew Dellavedova were they guys I was talking about. They were with the Cavs last year & had multi year deals.

But there's still no reason for the Cavs to make a trade now, Love'll still be there in a few months as long as Golden Sun doesn't up their ante. Love'll be injured by the trade deadline anyhow, so that'll probably lower his value enough to where even if Wiggins isn't as studly as we thought they'd still be able to get a deal done tbh fwiw imo.

[RD2191]

Your mother's breath and a bull's fart for one.
:lol

[Thread]

:lol

:toast

[RsxPiimp]

So what happens when the Love-James affair doesn't work out? Lebron leaves, and the Cavs are left with Kyrie and Love, two players who has reached a 0 amount of playoff games :lol


Wiggins is the Cavs insurance in the event Lebron leaves. You wait for Minnesota's desperation to sink in (likely before the deadline) and then make a move. They listen to your pitch or they can let him walk for nothing.

[Thread]

So what happens when the Love-James affair doesn't work out? Lebron leaves, and the Cavs are left with Kyrie and Love, two players who has reached a 0 amount of playoff games :lol


Wiggins is the Cavs insurance in the event Lebron leaves. You wait for Minnesota's desperation (likely before the deadline) and you bring YOUR best offer. They listen to your pitch or let him walk for nothing.

I'm sure The Gilbs has guarantees that James is in it for the long haul. And I frankly believe he is. He's home and under the protection of Silver, NYC, CT., and a centralized Media.

[Buddy Mignon]

I have no problem with CLE waiting and playing hardball either. Especially if they think MIN really values Wiggins more than anyone and you don't think anyone else will offer up anything more enticing for a while. While they may not be able to keep Wiggins, the may save themselves another asset.

But if they have to give up Wiggins, I think it's worth it.

I smell a whole lotta fear, panic, and pussy dripping from spurfan in this thread.

[elmanutres]

I smell a whole lotta fear, panic, and pussy dripping from spurfan in this thread.

Naruto Chapter 134

Author: Masashi Kishimoto | Artist: Masashi Kishimoto

Chapters: 535 | Updated: Mar 31 2011 | Status:Ongoing Regular

Tags: Adventure, Anime, Comedy, Drama, Fantasy, Shounen,

Summary: Twelve years before the events at the focus of the series, the nine-tailed demon fox attacked Konohagakure. It was a powerful demon indeed; a single swing of one of its nine tails would raise tsunamis and flatten mountains. It raised chaos and slaughtered many people, until the leader of the Leaf Village - the Fourth Hokage - defeated it by sacrificing his own life to seal the demon inside a newly-born child, whose origins are as yet unknown. That child's name was Naruto Uzumaki.

[jimbo]

How many teams in the East are offensive threats?

None? They need to build a team to beat the Western teams anyhow. They've got a good enough chance of getting out of the East if Lebron just shows up

[TSpence26]

Old news


T-Spence ‏@tspence26 (https://twitter.com/tspence26) This is REALLY last tweet on K-Love. Not taking ANY more questions on it until the trade goes down. Wiggins MAY be involved IF he has to be.

[TSpence26]

posted that july 14

[Dex]

Not at all surprised. Lebron trying to engineer another super team with Irving, Love, and himself. Did anyone really think he was going to count on Wiggins and Bennett to show up?

[Prime Time]

Old news


T-Spence ‏@tspence26 (https://twitter.com/tspence26) This is REALLY last tweet on K-Love. Not taking ANY more questions on it until the trade goes down. Wiggins MAY be involved IF he has to be.
Sup TSpence, send the non-believers my regards

[weebo]

Solid move for the Cavs. They should go ahead and pull the trigger. IMO, they would be the team to beat coming out of the shit East for years to come.

[Malik Hairston]

Love is a top 5-7 player in the league, tbh, it's a no-brainer..also, unlike Bosh, he's never been known to need the ball to get his points, as he shoots 3s, scores off putbacks, etc, so his offensive effectiveness shouldn't be as affected by LeCoon/Irving dominating the ball..

That team will have major defensive concerns and they really need to figure out what to do with Waiters..it's always possible that they can acquire a wing defender role player in a package for Waiters, I'm sure there are teams that are willing to take a chance on him..

Also, although the defense is a concern, a front court of Lebron/Varejao/Love/Thompson is an elite rebounding group, which should negate some of the defensive concerns..

Wiggins is a good/great prospect, but there's a good chance he'll never be as good as Love..it's strange that everybody is ignoring that Love is only 25 years old:lol..

[Malik Hairston]

And the time concern isn't about Minnesota's lack of leverage, it's about other teams upping their offers for Love..Golden State has already made a solid offer, and it's possible that they will eventually increase their offer in response to the Cavs' interest..

If you can strike a deal, do it immediately IMO..building chemistry ASAP..

[Mal]

And the time concern isn't about Minnesota's lack of leverage, it's about other teams upping their offers for Love..Golden State has already made a solid offer, and it's possible that they will eventually increase their offer in response to the Cavs' interest..

If you can strike a deal, do it immediately IMO..building chemistry ASAP..

Waiters, Bennett and pick is also a good deal. Wolves are going to involve Kevin Martin and his bad contract, that counts for something. You cant trade best prospect, prospect, pick and also take bad deal.

[Cry Havoc]

Bennett looking like Zach Randolph in Summer League to be honest...Really moving well and showing some nice things for a guy his size. He's not too athletic and is undersized, but has a pretty good handle for that size and is showing some nice footwork and offense.

I mean, it's summer league. Good play there doesn't necessarily translate to good play in the real games.

Unless someone things Bennett + Wiggins is going to be better than Love over the next few years when LeBron is prime and dominant, I don't understand why people think this is bad for the Cavs. They're in win now mode and even 1 or 2 titles would be a massive success to that city.

[Cry Havoc]

Your mother's breath and a bull's fart for one.

Thread, barreling into the debate with a head of steam and a courtyard full of idioms.

[Cry Havoc]

I smell a whole lotta fear, panic, and pussy dripping from spurfan in this thread.

Definitely a healthy fear. As it stands there is probably only one team close to our equal and it's spearheaded by a chucker with half a brain. If this goes down, there will be two teams in our way of 6.

[Clipper Nation]

Not at all surprised. Lebron trying to engineer another super team with Irving, Love, and himself.

No team with Kyrie "Overpaid Clone of Isaiah Thomas" Irving and Kevin "Stat-Padder" Love as "stars" can be called a superteam, tbh....

[Dex]

No team with Kyrie "Overpaid Clone of Isaiah Thomas" Irving and Kevin "Stat-Padder" Love can be called a superteam, tbh....

Both Irving and Love have been stuck in basketball wastelands with, let's face it, nobody to go along for the ride. Unless you count Rubio or Verejao as supporting stars.

It remains to be seen if Kyrie can mold his game to be a secondary option after Lebron. It would do the same if Love were to come to Cleveland.

That being said, their are both known commodities. That can't be said for Wiggins, who hasn't spent a second on an NBA court, or Bennett, who hasn't really done anything to prove he belongs on one after an entire season.

[Clipper Nation]

Both Irving and Love have been stuck in basketball wastelands with, let's face it, nothing really to get them over the hump.
Isaiah Thomas was stuck in just as bad of a shithole as Kyrie until this upcoming season, produced basically the same stats as Kyrie, and has never received nearly as much hype or money as Kyrie, tbh....

Love had plenty of talent around him in Minny, certainly more than some actual superstars have had.... he's simply not a superstar or first option, and his cancerous ways both on and off the court hinder his teams' ability to win....


That being said, their are both known commodities. That can't be said for Wiggins, who hasn't spent a second on an NBA court, or Bennett, who hasn't really done anything to prove he belongs on one after an entire season.
In the playoffs, when it really matters, both Kyrie and Love are equally as "known" as Wiggins and Bennett....

[BatManu20]

That's it, it's official.

489963870652342272

[Malik Hairston]

Irving is a net negative player, so I agree with CN's point about him, but Love consistently ranks among the top players in the league in adjusted on/off advanced metrics, tbh..he's a beast that has played with mediocre talent and a coach that gave up on basketball years ago..

Last year's Wolves team was only 40-42, but according to the advanced numbers, they were a top 11-12 team in the league that suffered from a lot of bad luck(injuries, a ton of last-second losses, etc)..

Cleveland's downfall will be keeping Irving, they won't trade him, but they really should, tbh..one of the 5 most overrated players in the league..

[benstanfield]

Because playing with Lebron made Bosh so much better....

[Splits]

That's it, it's official.

489963870652342272

:wow

489966596434051072

[Findog]

I'm really torn on this. Love is a little overrated if you're gonna call him a Top 5-7 player, but he's definitely top 10-12 and still a stud. I agree with the poster who said LeBron/Kyrie/Love is probably the East favorites. If you roll with Lebron/Kyrie and Wiggins/Bennett, you have to be realistic that next year is a transition year and true title contention won't be till 2015-16 season.

But I think Wiggins projects out as an All Star eventually regardless of where he plays, and mentoring under LeBron his ceiling is a little higher than that. I thought the whole point of LeBron jumping back to Cleveland besides the sentimental lunchpail do it for Ohio stuff was that he needed to play with younger, more athletic guys now that he's 29 and he's got a lot of mileage on his legs with deep playoff runs every year.

[DPG21920]

Because playing with Lebron made Bosh so much better....

It made Bosh a 4x finals participant and 2x champion.

[DPG21920]

I'm really torn on this. Love is a little overrated if you're gonna call him a Top 5-7 player, but he's definitely top 10-12 and still a stud. I agree with the poster who said LeBron/Kyrie/Love is probably the East favorites. If you roll with Lebron/Kyrie and Wiggins/Bennett, you have to be realistic that next year is a transition year and true title contention won't be till 2015-16 season.

But I think Wiggins projects out as an All Star eventually regardless of where he plays, and mentoring under LeBron his ceiling is a little higher than that. I thought the whole point of LeBron jumping back to Cleveland besides the sentimental lunchpail do it for Ohio stuff was that he needed to play with younger, more athletic guys now that he's 29 and he's got a lot of mileage on his legs with deep playoff runs every year.

Even if Wiggins/Bennett are shipped out, their main core is incredibly young with Bron being the oldest at 29.

[jimbo]

Cleveland's downfall will be keeping Irving, they won't trade him, but they really should, tbh..one of the 5 most overrated players in the league..

I've seen a lot of arguments both ways for Wiggins for Love, but is there even a good argument for not doing Irving for Love?

For as injury prone as Love has been, so has Irving. That's the biggest one I can think of (other than the reality that Cleveland would never actually do the trade)

[mavsfan1000]

Watch Cleveland trade their youth away.

[BatManu20]

:wow

489966596434051072

:lol I can't believe TSpence is actually getting this much notoriety from real sports journalists. Epic troll job tbh.

[Splits]

:lol I can't believe TSpence is actually getting this much notoriety from real sports journalists. Epic troll job tbh.

:lmao the tspence26 "report"

[MarioSpeedwagon]

Wiggins should be placed on suicide watch tbh

[Splits]

489989503361089536

[Jacob1983]

Wiggins must be pissed. He could go from being on a team with Lebron to playing one team with Ricky Rubio in Dimension X.

[Infinite_limit]

Bulls scaring folks

[BatManu20]

It's happening. Legit sources confirming.

489953014682107905

489968841884053504

[RsxPiimp]

Cavs got robbed :lol:lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

wiggins needs to get his own team to post up empty stats to get a max contract

playin behind lebrons shadow wont get you a max contract

[The Reckoning]

"i've seen the tspence report"

:lol

[apalisoc_9]

Love going to the east is good for the NBA.

Cavs should be considered a legitimate contender and the second best team in the NBA with a Kevin Love/ Lebron James duo

[TSpence26]

I wish I would of been right for you guys on Gasol.

[Clipper Nation]

I've seen a lot of arguments both ways for Wiggins for Love, but is there even a good argument for not doing Irving for Love?

For as injury prone as Love has been, so has Irving. That's the biggest one I can think of (other than the reality that Cleveland would never actually do the trade)
I'd trade Kyrie for Love in an instant.... they're both overrated chuckers, but a ballhogging point guard hurts your chances of ringing more.....

[-21-]

I wish I would of been right for you guys on Gasol.

:lol

[Raven]

I've seen a lot of arguments both ways for Wiggins for Love, but is there even a good argument for not doing Irving for Love?

For as injury prone as Love has been, so has Irving. That's the biggest one I can think of (other than the reality that Cleveland would never actually do the trade)

not just that, but if they got lebron there before, they could have avoided paying irving the max and also love is a much better fit with lebron than irving on paper. (then again, wiggins is a better fit than both)

[playbonner15]

"The TSpence Report" sounds legit though :lmao

[TE]

Tspence is gonna get himself a job with all this trolling tbh. Better than Broussard imo.

[Dex]

Plot twist: 5 years from now TSpence is the new Woj, coming up from his humble beginnings on Twitter and SpursTalk.

[RD2191]

Plot twist: 5 years from now TSpence is the new Woj, coming up from his humble beginnings on Twitter and SpursTalk.
:lol

[ducks]

Love going to the east is good for the NBA.

Cavs should be considered a legitimate contender and the second best team in the NBA with a Kevin Love/ Lebron James duo

spurs thunder clippers are better then them now
maybe latter
gs and rockets are close I also would think they are better then them until I actually see them on court

[Donkeybong]

still on the fence about this deal. I wouldn't give up more than Wiggins for K-love. He's a good player, but he's only on a really really shitty team. And great players can usually change teams fortunes and turn them into winners.

[D-Wade]

Why would the Cavs give up Thompson? Cavs need more depth

[Mal]

Why would the Cavs give up Thompson? Cavs need more depth

This, giving 3 pairs of young legs, for less older legs. LeBron wont be playing 40 mpg

[Thread]

This, giving 3 pairs of young legs, for less older legs. LeBron wont be playing 40 mpg

If he wants to get near it, he will be playing 40 MPG.

[DJR210]

Cavs are fucking stupid, and are really gonna make a mistake win the "win now' attitude. They will be damn good next year without Love. They need to focus on team chemistry, and getting everyone committed to defense.

You don't trade the guy that has the potential to carry the torch from the post Lebron era. Love is solid, but who knows what type of nightmare matchups Wiggins/Lebron may create in a couple of years. They have to remember that LeBron is 30, and because they will be more competetive, they won't figure to be in the position to draft the number 1 overall as long as they have a healthy LeBron James.

[Infinite_limit]

still on the fence about this deal. I wouldn't give up more than Wiggins for K-love. He's a good player, but he's only on a really really shitty team. And great players can usually change teams fortunes and turn them into winners.
KG couldn't change the fortunes of Minnesota, James ran off to Miami. When Chicago (Top 5 city in the USA) is struggling to reel in Free Agents, it says more about the health of the Association than it does a particular player.

[ducks]

Cavs are fucking stupid, and are really gonna make a mistake win the "win now' attitude. They will be damn good next year without Love. They need to focus on team chemistry, and getting everyone committed to defense.

You don't trade the guy that has the potential to carry the torch from the post Lebron era. Love is solid, but who knows what type of nightmare matchups Wiggins/Lebron may create in a couple of years. They have to remember that LeBron is 30, and because they will be more competetive, they won't figure to be in the position to draft the number 1 overall as long as they have a healthy LeBron James.james wants this done
james is playing gm

[TSpence26]

http://magnustoday.net/2014/07/timberwolves-trade-kevin-loveglenn-robinson-iii-cavaliers-andrew-wiggins-dion-waiters-tristan-thompson/

[Dex]

TSpence Report with breaking news and shit.

[PingPong]

Once a stupid F.O. Always will be a stupid F.O. Giving three Young good players for a stat padder. If the Cavs are giving Wiggins, at least they should keep Thompson, a good role player

[ducks]

Brian Windhorst windhorstESPN · 20h

LeBron intrigued w/Andrew Wiggins' potential but has made clear to Cavs he wants to compete for title now. Going after Love fits message

[mavsfan1000]

Once a stupid office, always a stupid office.

[Double-Up]

TSpence Report with breaking news and shit.

From the comments:

"Yeah I've been following this on twitter for 2 days. Dude is bunk."

[Clipper Nation]

KG couldn't change the fortunes of Minnesota, James ran off to Miami. When Chicago (Top 5 city in the USA) is struggling to reel in Free Agents, it says more about the health of the Association than it does a particular player.

Shitcago is almost as shitty as Poland, that's why nobody wants to go there :lol

[Double-Up]

Shitcago is almost as shitty as Poland, that's why nobody wants to go there :lol

Proper term is Chiraq...get it right.

[D-Wade]

Brian Windhorst wind (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14572)horstESPN · 20h

LeBron intrigued w/Andrew Wiggins' potential but has made clear to Cavs he wants to compete for title now. Going after Love fits message

I got love for Bron but his impatience might bite him in the ass here. Not everyone can be like my homie Three in his rookie year and already be a boss in the playoffs, but Wiggins' has a huge upside and might even be solid in the postseason under Bron's leadership -- doubly true for Kyrie.

[Henrik Sedin]

Brian Windhorst wind (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14572)horstESPN · 20h

LeBron intrigued w/Andrew Wiggins' potential but has made clear to Cavs he wants to compete for title now. Going after Love fits message

The complete opposite from his letter.

[spurraider21]

i'm not necessarily sold on Wiggins, but i'm not a fan of a team that wants to start both Irving and Love. it's a defensive nightmare, especially if and when Varejao goes down

[FkLA]

People are bringing up the ineptitude of Cleveland's FO but forgetting the time they missed out on Prime Amare bc they were so high on JJ Hickson's potential.

I'm one of Love's biggest detractors but he's still an all-star that would be a great fit next to Bron, I'd also like to think he could atleast be a decent defender in a winning environment that demands it from him. Wiggins is oozing with potential but the Cavs need to include him if that's what it takes to get Love--any team would trade a young, potential star for a young, established one. If the Spurs could've gotten someone established for Hill they would've, it has nothing to do with 'Timmy not being a pussy and willing to mentor and win with young guys'. :lol

[phxspurfan]

Kyrie/Waiters/Bron/Love/Andy

Bench: Dellavedova/Kevin Martin/Corey Brewer/Tristan Thompson/Mike Miller bench?

Waiters is gonna get moved soon. Kyrie can't stand him. It boiled over into a locker room confrontation last season, and Waiters was originally put on the block.


I don't think Cleveld should give up a 1st since they are including Wiggins. I think it should be Wiggins/Bennett for Love and filler (KMart, whatever). Maybe a 2nd rounder. But 3 first rounders for Love, who will leave the Wolves anyway, is stupid.

[Dex]

Immediately makes Cleveland a contender in the East and, let's face it, that's what Lebron AND the fans want. They have been playing the rebuilding game ever since he left.

That being said...this new "superteam" doesn't seem to strike the same fear into my heart as the Superfriends did when they got together. I guess we'll have to see how James, Irving, and Love play together.

[BatManu20]

Legit

490257853228130304

[Thread]

Legit

490257853228130304

I'd tell them go back and fuck their mother some more.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Cavs are fucking stupid, and are really gonna make a mistake win the "win now' attitude. They will be damn good next year without Love. They need to focus on team chemistry, and getting everyone committed to defense.

You don't trade the guy that has the potential to carry the torch from the post Lebron era. Love is solid, but who knows what type of nightmare matchups Wiggins/Lebron may create in a couple of years. They have to remember that LeBron is 30, and because they will be more competetive, they won't figure to be in the position to draft the number 1 overall as long as they have a healthy LeBron James.

Who is to say there are chemistry issues at all. Irvin and Love have worked together before and like each other and James has already reached out. Even a cynic is going to admit that Love is a top 10 player right now and expected to remain at that level for the next several years. Wiggins stroke looks like shit.

[RD2191]

I don't understand why the Wolves aren't all over that shit. They're gonna lose Love for nothing if they don't pull the trigger. Am I missing something here or is Minnys GM just retarded?

[mavsfan1000]

Fuck Kevin Love. Cavs should stick with their team.

[Malik Hairston]

I don't understand this Wiggins hype, tbh..

He obviously has a ton of potential, but he's far from a sure thing..why are people treating him like young Tim Duncan or Shaq?..he's doesn't even possess young Carmelo-level of polish to his game, his offense is so raw..

Love is a beast that has shown that he can succeed at a high level playing off the ball, being supported by far inferior talent to Irving, let alone James..the doubt is puzzling, as Love is far from a ball-dominant player, he's the ideal #2 guy on a team and rebounds at an insane level, too..

[~O~]

SHhhhhhh. Let the Cavs do what they want! They're not going to hobble themselves for the future again bending over to please LeBron. This hasn't ever happened before in Cleveland.

[baseline bum]

This, giving 3 pairs of young legs, for less older legs. LeBron wont be playing 40 mpg

Kevin Love is 25 man.

[DJR210]

Who is to say there are chemistry issues at all?

I didn't. I'm saying they need to build the chemistry, and become a team around James. You mentioned 3 out of 15 players, chemistry and familiarity will go beyond that, we know that as Spurs fans. The entire team gels together. As for Wiggins stroke looking like shit, that is fine at this point, he's what? 20? He will develop. He will not expected to be jacking up a ton of shots anyway, they have offensive options ahead of him.

[~O~]

Kevin Love is 25 man. Four years away from his prime but will he improve on defense. He's one hell of a rebounder.

[MarioSpeedwagon]

They should offer Wiggins for Love straight up basically by including a third team who wants to dump an expiring contract into the mix. Third team gets to save ten fifteen million next season or whatever and Cavs don't have to give up so much. I don't like the idea of them giving up !multiple young players especially since the Wolves don't have a ton of leverage here considering GS offer includes a SG with less potential and ducking up their cap flexibility for the forseable future with Thompson's extension and David Lee's contract that lasts for two more years

[AaronY]

They should offer Wiggins for Love straight up basically by including a third team who wants to dump an expiring contract into the mix. Third team gets to save ten fifteen million next season or whatever and Cavs don't have to give up so much. I don't like the idea of them giving up !multiple young players especially since the Wolves don't have a ton of leverage here considering GS offer includes a SG with less potential and ducking up their cap flexibility for the forseable future with Thompson's extension and David Lee's contract that lasts for two more years
Cavs don't have room under the cap to do that. They have to send out a bunch of salary to fit love under the cap.

[Thebesteva]

The issue the Cavs had the last time around was they allowed Lebron to play GM and hes a low IQ nigga. When the franchise had Amare on a plate to join the Cavs in 2010 when he was playing solid, he chose Antawn Jamison instead because he felt it was a better 'fit'. Hes a fuckin retard, and the only reason why he did so well in Miami is Pat Riley is great at putting pieces around a guy like Lebron.

Lebron+Love+Injury prone Kyrie+Mike Miller would be a second round team in the West, but because the EC is such a D-league right now its hard for me to assess if they are instant Finals favorites or not.

[ducks]

not sure what the hold up is
wolves should do it before the cavs wake up unless they want klay Thompson ove r wiggins

[Chinook]

They should offer Wiggins for Love straight up basically by including a third team who wants to dump an expiring contract into the mix. Third team gets to save ten fifteen million next season or whatever and Cavs don't have to give up so much. I don't like the idea of them giving up !multiple young players especially since the Wolves don't have a ton of leverage here considering GS offer includes a SG with less potential and ducking up their cap flexibility for the forseable future with Thompson's extension and David Lee's contract that lasts for two more years

And you call my takes bad.

[baseline bum]

Cavs don't have room under the cap to do that. They have to send out a bunch of salary to fit love under the cap.

I thought the Cavs had some kind of major trade exception. Besides, under the 2012 CBA trades only have to match up to 150% of salary for non taxpaying teams, and neither team has any chance of paying luxury tax. Much easier than the old matching salary to within 15% rule under the previous two CBAs.

[Salty]

The Cavs might be the only team in the league that Spurstalk can run better than the incumbent GM/Owner.

[Chinook]

I thought the Cavs had some kind of major trade exception. Besides, under the 2012 CBA trades only have to match up to 150% of salary for non taxpaying teams, and neither team has any chance of paying luxury tax. Much easier than the old matching salary to within 15% rule under the previous two CBAs.

No. Cleveland doesn't have TE (or at best they have a couple of tiny ones) because they used cap space to sign James. You're right about the 150-percent rule, but that still means the Cavs have to come up with $10 Million dollars to send out.

[baseline bum]

No. Cleveland doesn't have TE (or at best they have a couple of tiny ones) because they used cap space to sign James. You're right about the 150-percent rule, but that still means the Cavs have to come up with $10 Million dollars to send out.

I think they still have roughly $3 million in capspace after giving Miller his contract. Surprisingly James didn't sign a max deal. His salary is about $20.6 million next year instead of the $22.1 million he was eligible for.

[Chinook]

I think they still have roughly $3 million in capspace after giving Miller his contract. Surprisingly James didn't sign a max deal. His salary is about $20.6 million next year instead of the $22.1 million he was eligible for.

If they actually have cap space left, then they don't have any trade exceptions, not even small ones. And as far as I know, $20.6 M WAS the max for James. Remember, the percentages for max deals aren't taken out of the whole cap.

[jimbo]

I think they still have roughly $3 million in capspace after giving Miller his contract. Surprisingly James didn't sign a max deal. His salary is about $20.6 million next year instead of the $22.1 million he was eligible for.

Wow with all of the circus around his free agency, I'm surprised that's the first time I've actually read he didn't actually take the max.

So the single "known" thing all of the writers thought they knew (that he wanted the max) ended up being false :lol. He really did want to go home. With him not taking the max they coulda put SOMETHING together in Miami if he really wanted to.

[SupremeGuy]

The T'Wolves are going to make off like bandits trading Love, it's pretty crazy.

[Infinite_limit]

Shitcago is almost as shitty as Poland, that's why nobody wants to go there :lol
http://www.polamjournal.com/Bookstore/Polish_Chicago_2012_Cover_-_Copy.jpg

[Mel_13]

I think they still have roughly $3 million in capspace after giving Miller his contract. Surprisingly James didn't sign a max deal. His salary is about $20.6 million next year instead of the $22.1 million he was eligible for.

20.6M was the max that he could get from Cleveland.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

[LakerHater]

Jus saw on the ticker, it's a dun deal!

[StrengthAndHonor]

20.6M was the max that he could get from Cleveland.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16
+1

[baseline bum]

20.6M was the max that he could get from Cleveland.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

Nice find. Didn't know that.

[baseline bum]

Jus saw on the ticker, it's a dun deal!

I don't see anyone reporting the deal as done.

[PingPong]

Legit

490257853228130304


Bennett is a bust. Good move.

[FkLA]

When the franchise had Amare on a plate to join the Cavs in 2010 when he was playing solid, he chose Antawn Jamison instead because he felt it was a better 'fit'.

lol you're pulling this right out of your ass tbh, Ferrys reluctance to include Hickson killed that deal not Bron

[TheCultOfPersonality]

I don't understand this Wiggins hype, tbh..

He obviously has a ton of potential, but he's far from a sure thing..why are people treating him like young Tim Duncan or Shaq?..he's doesn't even possess young Carmelo-level of polish to his game, his offense is so raw..

Love is a beast that has shown that he can succeed at a high level playing off the ball, being supported by far inferior talent to Irving, let alone James..the doubt is puzzling, as Love is far from a ball-dominant player, he's the ideal #2 guy on a team and rebounds at an insane level, too..
Thank you! I don't understand the Wiggins hype either.

The best power forward in the NBA who's not even in his prime yet vs. a project shooting guard/small forward who might turn out to be a bust. This is an easy decision here. You go with the best power forward in the NBA. The only dumb thing I can say that the Cavs did was waiting this long to include Wiggins in this deal in the first place. It's obvious that Love with LeBron gives the Cavs the best chance of winning a championship than LeBron with Project Wiggins.

[Franklin]

Love is overrated I believe Wiggins has a much higher ceiling than him tbh. Maybe it was Lebron who urged the team to pursue Love but dude ain't worth that much. Klay Thompson + <Diaw for Love looks like a fair deal though.

[Clipper Nation]

The best power forward in the NBA who's not even in his prime yet
The Cavs aren't trading for Blake or Davis....

[Random5843]

The only thing for sure is that everyone who goes to Minnesota will not improve. So in a couple of years you can safely say "I told you Wiggins was a bust".

[jimbo]

Thank you! I don't understand the Wiggins hype either.

The best power forward in the NBA who's not even in his prime yet vs. a project shooting guard/small forward who might turn out to be a bust. This is an easy decision here. You go with the best power forward in the NBA. The only dumb thing I can say that the Cavs did was waiting this long to include Wiggins in this deal in the first place. It's obvious that Love with LeBron gives the Cavs the best chance of winning a championship than LeBron with Project Wiggins.

Problem is, enjoy all your salary tied up in a borderline all star, Lebron and Love. That's not a championship winning team with min pieces around them. If you could get rid of Kyrie for some different pieces (which the Cavs will never do), it'd be a good trade. But I still think the Thunder have a better constructed team for the future than the Cavs if they ship off all their young talent (other than Kyrie/Love/Lebron).

I mean Bron/Love/Kyrie ain't better than Bron/Wade/Bosh for their first couple years. (esp not their first year together) Granted those guys won 2 titles, but it wasn't until they got some good role players to join up with them for peanuts. I'd rather leave matters in my own hands tbh than have to beg players to play for the minimum.

Not to mention that team's defense would be :lmao. I think Spurfan should hope that the Cavs get gutted in their trade for Love. IMO the Wiggins Cavs pose a bigger problem than the Love Cavs.

[Chinook]

The Spurs match up well with the Cavs not matter what they do. San Antonio has the best defensive personnel in the league (and it's not really close). They can guard anybody while also being able to keep five "live" guys (to borrow James' term) on the court at all times. Offensively, the Spurs showed they can no longer be shut down by taking Parker out of the game. I agree that Wiggins/James is a more intimidating defensive duo than James/Love is an offensive duo, but I don't think the Spurs have trouble with either one provided they remain at their current level.

[Michael Jordan.]

I can see why the Cavs wouldn't want to give up Wiggins for Love, but Golden State had no reason to not let go of Thompson.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I can see why the Cavs wouldn't want to give up Wiggins for Love, but Golden State had no reason to not let go of Thompson.

Yeah. Lee & Thompson should do it.

[jimbo]

The Spurs match up well with the Cavs not matter what they do. San Antonio has the best defensive personnel in the league (and it's not really close). They can guard anybody while also being able to keep five "live" guys (to borrow James' term) on the court at all times. Offensively, the Spurs showed they can no longer be shut down by taking Parker out of the game. I agree that Wiggins/James is a more intimidating defensive duo than James/Love is an offensive duo, but I don't think the Spurs have trouble with either one provided they remain at their current level.

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

[Chinook]

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

I disagree with a whole lot of what you just said. I'll just say I'm not worried about Wiggins' offense at all and leave it at that.

[jimbo]

I disagree with a whole lot of what you just said. I'll just say I'm not worried about Wiggins' offense at all and leave it at that.

You can't explain? Go ahead and put what you think'll happen on paper.

[Baam]

Blatt could be the difference between an easy win and an uncertain series, Carlisle gave the Spurs hell with shitty defensive players (but a smart scheme) and great offense...

[apalisoc_9]

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

One of the dumbest post.

- San Antonio has two elite perimeter defenders in Kawhi and Danny.

- Wiggin's J is suspect and only a bad team would leave a wide open man. Spurs is an elite defensive team both in terms of personel, and the ability to rotate.

- Manu is not going to dominate wiggins, he doesn't need to.

- Splitter/Bobo can cover up Love

- Danny can Guard Irving

- Kawhi on Lebron

[baseline bum]

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

http://gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/danny-green-troll-face.png

[spurraider21]

I think Chinook had an aneurysm at the "spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi" thing

[jimbo]

Alright guys I fucked up on that one. I legitimately forgot Danny Green existed when writing that post. (and every post I've made regarding the Spurs vs Wiggins Cavs)

He's definitely a guy that could force Wiggins into taking contested jumpers. But that then means there's no one to hide Parker on because of Kyrie. So it goes back to 2012 OKC vs the Spurs. I know a lot of y'all are gonna point to their big men hitting jumpers being the difference maker (and :cry refs :cry), but the Beard still did major work in that series. I still think Wiggins'll be better than him. Next year? Probably not. So do the Spurs have the edge in the series? Yeah--but I don't think it's a major one because of how high I am on Wiggins.

But going back to Wiggins vs Love in matchups. Forcing Parker to defend Irving is worse than Tiago on Love imo. Like I said, I still think Tiago is one of the better Love defenders in the league. I wouldn't be afraid of him in the least. Then we could sit Danny on Kyrie and Kawhi on Lebron. All good matchups for the Spurs. (Although I guess they would be running Waiters at SG in the Love matchup, and I have no clue how that'd go versus Parker)


Boiled down, I'm still giving the 2015 Cavs more of a chance against the Spurs than the 2014 Heat. The 2014 Heat matched up horribly with the Spurs. With Danny Green existing, the Spurs have a slight advantage in the matchup unless Wiggins shows some major improvements in his ballhandling. I think the Spurs stomp the Love Cavs.



One of the dumbest post.

- San Antonio has two elite perimeter defenders in Kawhi and Danny.

- Wiggin's J is suspect and only a bad team would leave a wide open man. Spurs is an elite defensive team both in terms of personel, and the ability to rotate.

- Manu is not going to dominate wiggins, he doesn't need to.

- Splitter/Bobo can cover up Love

- Danny can Guard Irving

- Kawhi on Lebron

1) I forgot about Danny, yeah.

2) His J was only suspect when he got frustrated and would settle for contested jumpers. But like I said, who has a good jumper in that situation? The Spurs leave men wide open all the time when it's the best option... Ibaka/Perkins in 2012. Lebron in 2013. I'm sure there's more examples, but I can't think of em right now.

I was thinking they'd do it to Wiggins because they have no answer to him on defense. (Since Green didn't exist in my head when I was writing that post.)

IMO his ballhandling is more suspect than his jumper, that's something Danny would thrive on now that I think of it.

3) Well what other matchups do you win? Manu beating up on Wade was huge this year. I mean for all the hype Kawhi's getting, Manu was nearly as important & Dwyane Wade's athleticism was a big part of that.

4) Agreed

5) Guess that leaves Waiters on Parker? (If we're talking about the Love Cavs) I haven't watched him enough to comment on that tbh.

^) I still don't think Kawhi's defense was anything spectacular on Lebron. He still put up good numbers on Kawhi. It was Kawhi's breakout offense that won him the MVP.

[jimbo]

I think Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) had an aneurysm at the "spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi" thing

Woulda been nice had he let me know that about 4 hours ago

[jimbo]

Blatt could be the difference between an easy win and an uncertain series, Carlisle gave the Spurs hell with shitty defensive players (but a smart scheme) and great offense...

Agreed, but I've sucked off Blatt enough already. He probably heard Manu's interview where he said he was surprised that the only team that forced the Spurs to play 1 on 1 was the Mavs. Being the non retard that Blatt is, he'll give the Cavs a real shot at winning.

[Robz4000]

Alright guys I fucked up on that one. I legitimately forgot Danny Green existed when writing that post. (and every post I've made regarding the Spurs vs Wiggins Cavs)

He's definitely a guy that could force Wiggins into taking contested jumpers. But that then means there's no one to hide Parker on because of Kyrie. So it goes back to 2012 OKC vs the Spurs. I know a lot of y'all are gonna point to their big men hitting jumpers being the difference maker (and :cry refs :cry), but the Beard still did major work in that series. I still think Wiggins'll be better than him. Next year? Probably not. So do the Spurs have the edge in the series? Yeah--but I don't think it's a major one because of how high I am on Wiggins.

But going back to Wiggins vs Love in matchups. Forcing Parker to defend Irving is worse than Tiago on Love imo. Like I said, I still think Tiago is one of the better Love defenders in the league. I wouldn't be afraid of him in the least. Then we could sit Danny on Kyrie and Kawhi on Lebron. All good matchups for the Spurs. (Although I guess they would be running Waiters at SG in the Love matchup, and I have no clue how that'd go versus Parker)


Boiled down, I'm still giving the 2015 Cavs more of a chance against the Spurs than the 2014 Heat. The 2014 Heat matched up horribly with the Spurs. With Danny Green existing, the Spurs have a slight advantage in the matchup unless Wiggins shows some major improvements in his ballhandling. I think the Spurs stomp the Love Cavs.




1) I forgot about Danny, yeah.

2) His J was only suspect when he got frustrated and would settle for contested jumpers. But like I said, who has a good jumper in that situation? The Spurs leave men wide open all the time when it's the best option... Ibaka/Perkins in 2012. Lebron in 2013. I'm sure there's more examples, but I can't think of em right now.

I was thinking they'd do it to Wiggins because they have no answer to him on defense. (Since Green didn't exist in my head when I was writing that post.)

IMO his ballhandling is more suspect than his jumper, that's something Danny would thrive on now that I think of it.

3) Well what other matchups do you win? Manu beating up on Wade was huge this year. I mean for all the hype Kawhi's getting, Manu was nearly as important & Dwyane Wade's athleticism was a big part of that.

4) Agreed

5) Guess that leaves Waiters on Parker? (If we're talking about the Love Cavs) I haven't watched him enough to comment on that tbh.

^) I still don't think Kawhi's defense was anything spectacular on Lebron. He still put up good numbers on Kawhi. It was Kawhi's breakout offense that won him the MVP.

Parker's defended Irving well in the past, and that was regular season TP. If he plays as bad or worse than last year, ok, but he's generally been a pretty solid defender at the PG position.

[Chinook]

It's not just about Green. Wiggins hasn't even looked unstoppable in the summer league. You think he's going to be some match-up nightmare against the Spurs? Even if he becomes a better offensive player over the season, he'll be the fourth option on the Cavs behind James, Irving and Thompson. The best I see him doing is pulling a Harrison Barnes from the 2013 WCSF, when the Spurs let Barnes try to beat them rather than giving anyone else the ball.

I think the Cavs should kick the tires on Ryan Anderson before blowing their loads on Love. I think they should prioritize defense over getting a third max player. I also don't think Love will extend for the long haul, so the Cavs are making a big gamble if they trade away multiple young talents on rookie-scale deals. But I don't think they'll be serious contenders against the Spurs or Clippers next season unless Blatt ends up being a great coach right off the bat (like Carlisle level).

[buttsR4rebounding]

Alright guys I fucked up on that one. I legitimately forgot Danny Green existed when writing that post. (and every post I've made regarding the Spurs vs Wiggins Cavs)



^) I still don't think Kawhi's defense was anything spectacular on Lebron. He still put up good numbers on Kawhi. It was Kawhi's breakout offense that won him the MVP.

Except game 3 where he was key into forcing LeBron into 7 turnovers.

[jimbo]

It's not just about Green. Wiggins hasn't even looked unstoppable in the summer league. You think he's going to be some match-up nightmare against the Spurs? Even if he becomes a better offensive player over the season, he'll be the fourth option on the Cavs behind James, Irving and Thompson. The best I see him doing is pulling a Harrison Barnes from the 2013 WCSF, when the Spurs let Barnes try to beat them rather than giving anyone else the ball.

I think the Cavs should kick the tires on Ryan Anderson before blowing their loads on Love. I think they should prioritize defense over getting a third max player. I also don't think Love will extend for the long haul, so the Cavs are making a big gamble if they trade away multiple young talents on rookie-scale deals. But I don't think they'll be serious contenders against the Spurs or Clippers next season unless Blatt ends up being a great coach right off the bat (like Carlisle level).

I'm not making any evaluations based on the Summer League, I had enough free time to watch his Kansas games. I think he becomes a nightmare when you couple him with other great players. By himself--no--he's no nightmare. That's not Andrew Wiggins at this point.

He's not the 4th option behind Thompson. Not even close. I went to Texas. I've followed him relatively closely. That's not happening. He's an offensive black hole at this point. There's no way Blatt even gives him a fifth of the touches. I could see Waiters getting more touches as a 6th man before I ever saw Thompson getting more touches than Wiggins. They'll want Thompson to play a garbage man role if anything.


The best I see him doing is pulling a Harrison Barnes from the 2013 WCSF, when the Spurs let Barnes try to beat them rather than giving anyone else the ball.

That and a little Lebron James just might win you the title tbh. It's not like Harrison was bad, he was just inefficient. (from what I remember)


I think the Cavs should kick the tires on Ryan Anderson before blowing their loads on Love. I think they should prioritize defense over getting a third max player.

I can agree with that. But I also think Wiggins is the answer for some of their defensive problems. Their problem is they're just not going to trade Andy or Irving no matter what. I don't know who they can turn Bennett/Waiters/those protected 1st round picks they have into, but they could probably come up with something.

If they trade everything they have for Love, they won't have any ways of making their team better defensively. That'e one of the big reasons I'd be against it.



I also don't think Love will extend for the long haul, so the Cavs are making a big gamble if they trade away multiple young talents on rookie-scale deals.

Disagree about the Love not extending for the long haul. I don't know if they can extend and trade or not, but they'll do that if they can. But I mean at that point Love's going to be on a theoretical contender making max money. Unless he really really wants to play for the Lakers--he's got no reason to leave imo. I just can't see any big free agents heading to LA while Kirby is still there.


But I don't think they'll be serious contenders against the Spurs or Clippers next season unless Blatt ends up being a great coach right off the bat (like Carlisle level).

1) I do think they'll be a serious contender. At least on the level of the Lebron Cavs prior to 2010. They probably won't win as many regular season games as those teams, but they've got a good enough chance to make the finals. That might not meet your definition of serious contender, but imo if you've made the Finals with the best player in the world--you've got an okay chance of winning it.

2) I think Carlisle is the best coach in the NBA, so I won't hold Blatt to that standard. But if he's better than Spo/Thibs/Vogel--and I expect him to be--that'll be good enough to field a good series against the Spurs. I don't think Spo did a good job coaching in the finals either year against the Spurs.

[TSpence]

Plot twist: 5 years from now TSpence is the new Woj, coming up from his humble beginnings on Twitter and SpursTalk.


5 years later....

[baseline bum]

Wish TSpence had been wrong on that Gasol to San Antonio report tbh.

[Dex]

5 years later....

Join Date: 07-11-2019

Fake news. YOU AREN'T THE REAL TSPENCE!!!

[TSpence]

Join Date: 07-11-2019

Fake news. YOU AREN'T THE REAL TSPENCE!!!

Lol. Yes I am. Do you want me to prove it on my next podcast or something?

[TSpence]

Gave the forum a shoutout just now at my twitter @SpencerMelton15

[Robz4000]

Lol. Yes I am. Do you want me to prove it on my next podcast or something?


Gave the forum a shoutout just now at my twitter @SpencerMelton15

Log into your original account and I'll believe.

[TSpence]

Log into your original account and I'll believe.

Unban it and i will

[Robz4000]

Unban it and i will
timvp

[TSpence]

Let me know if I get freed.

[TSpence]

Anything?

[TSpence]

Still have not got freed... :(