Bogus?

[Avante]

Over the past decade, considerable research has emerged that demonstrates the benefits of religious practice within society.[1] (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#_ftn1) Religious practice promotes the well-being of individuals, families, and the community.

Of particular note are the studies that indicate the benefits of Religion to the poor.[2] (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#_ftn2) Regular attendance at religious services is linked to healthy, stable family life, strong marriages, and well-behaved children. The practice of Religion also leads to a reduction in the incidence of domestic abuse, crime, substance abuse, and addiction. In addition, religious practice leads to an increase in physical and mental health, longevity, and education attainment. Moreover, these effects are intergenerational, as grandparents and parents pass on the benefits to the next generations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now watch as all those who aren't religious act like jerks and morons over this. Which tells us what?

I've seen what that above article is saying, I know relgious people and those who aren't. There is no doubt which ones are dealing better with life and are better equipped to handle whatever comes their way.

Judy is a licensed daycare provider, she has a degree in Child Developement and has been in the daycare business for over 30 years. She has talked about which kids are better behaved and better adjusted to things, yep...you guessed it.

[ChumpDumper]

heritage.org

[Avante]

There we have it, an atheist trying to discredit actual studies. Why is it most non believers are also jerks?


The connection between religion and mental health has been the subject of much controversy over the years, and many psychologists and psychiatrists remain skeptical, in part because most of the research has been based on cross-sectional analyses of small samples. The studies to date are suggestive of an association between religious involvement and better mental health outcomes, including greater self-esteem, better adaptation to bereavement, a lower incidence of depression and anxiety, a lower likelihood of alcohol and drug abuse, and greater life satisfaction and happiness in general (Koenig et al. 2001 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#R48)). Recent longitudinal analyses of subgroups of the population provide additional evidence in support of this relationship (Zuckerman et al. 1984 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#R99); Levin et al. 1996 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#R60)).

There is no end to that sort of thing, I wonder why?

[Blake]

Regular attendance at religious services is linked to healthy, stable family life, strong marriages, and well-behaved children. The practice of Religion also leads to a reduction in the incidence of domestic abuse, crime, substance abuse, and addiction. In addition, religious practice leads to an increase in physical and mental health, longevity, and education attainment. Moreover, these effects are intergenerational, as grandparents and parents pass on the benefits to the next generations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what religion do you practice and how often do you attend church

[Avante]

Let me ask you guys out there something. If ya told somebody they make ya feel dirty would ya STILL follow them around begging for attention?

What is this guys problem, is he really this fucked up?

[Avante]

Ok getting back to the topic....

All of you reading this have friends/family into religion, would you say they are better off because of it?

[Blake]

I'm on topic, you idiot.

What religion do you practice and how often do you go to church?

Since this is your thread praising the benefits of it, let's hear a personal anecdote regarding what it's done for you.

[Avante]

This is sad to watch, I actually pity the boy.

But, notice how the freak just can't fathom reality? All those studies that tell us about the benefits of living with a God and the freak still doesn't get it, wow!

Another tid bit.

The results turned out to be a bit of a landslide in favour of more religious parents. Children of religious parents were rated by both parents and teachers as having greater self-control, better interpersonal skills, and less likely to have depressive or impulsivity problems. All of these findings were observed even after taking into account ‘sociodemographic’ variables, such as parental education, family income, and child’s gender.

[Avante]

Ok, so who out there can show me where anything talks about children being better off without religion? Come on all you...bah humbuggers...and...if ya can't see it it doesn't exist,...hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

I'd love to see anything that says something similiar to....

Studies have shown that children are better off in non religious surroundings, they do better in an atheist existence.

This sort of stuff just keeps coming.

Religious Children Are More Connected to Their Families


A Sense of Stronger Families

The journal Family Relations (http://www.jstor.org/pss/585226) published a study examining whether religion had a beneficial effect on family life. The study, which followed more than 200 married men and women of 20 different religions living in urban settings, found that those who were religious reported that they had stronger families. The researchers believe this is due to the community support provided by organized religion.

Why do I doubt I'l be reading about how the best way to go is being an atheist?

[Avante]

How about this one?


Catherine Sanderson, a psychology professor at Amherst College, recently gave a talk, “Positive Psychology: The Science of Happiness,” in which she described things that we think will make us happy but don’t and things that really do. It turns out that a private plane would not make me happier. (I’m still not convinced.) It also turns out that people who have religious or spiritual beliefs are happier than those who don’t, no matter what their beliefs.

[Avante]

So I challenge all you little.....if ya can't see it....hahaha!!!!!!!!!....to show me anything anywhere that talks about how it's better to be an atheist.

Come on let's see it!

Ther is no end to all this..."religious people are happier"....out there....TONS!

There is a reason this country will never have an atheist as it's President.

[Blake]

You're stupid.

[DMC]

Ok getting back to the topic....

All of you reading this have friends/family into religion, would you say they are better off because of it?

If you really want to discuss this, which I doubt, you'll eventually not like the outcome. It has something to do with delusion. Are people better off believing a lie if it makes them feel better about themselves?

Do you think people can chose what to believe? Can you chose to believe this forum doesn't exist, or that the moon or sun don't exist? Can you choose to believe in the existence of Zeus?

[xmas1997]

I'm on topic, you idiot.

What religion do you practice and how often do you go to church?

Since this is your thread praising the benefits of it, let's hear a personal anecdote regarding what it's done for you.

No one here is going to answer any of your retarded questions anymore because you never ever answer theirs except with the retarded "you're stupid" answer.
Need proof of this?
Post #12.
We know your game. You've been exposed for the fraud you are, you know absolutely nothing of this subject, and NEVER ADD to the discussion.
When you start telling the TRUTH, maybe then someone will listen.
Until then, just stay out of discussions concerning religious matters, okay?
Because you look like a fool at best.
:lmao

[Blake]

No one here is going to answer any of your retarded questions anymore because you never ever answer theirs except with the retarded "you're stupid" answer.

Avante is making a claim so I'm asking a follow up question to his original post.

There's nothing for me to answer because I'm not making any claims here.

You're stupid.

[xmas1997]

Avante is making a claim so I'm asking a follow up question to his original post.

There's nothing for me to answer because I'm not making any claims here.

You're stupid.


I didn't stutter, my statement stands, not to mention it is the truth too.

[Avante]

If you really want to discuss this, which I doubt, you'll eventually not like the outcome. It has something to do with delusion. Are people better off believing a lie if it makes them feel better about themselves?

Do you think people can chose what to believe? Can you chose to believe this forum doesn't exist, or that the moon or sun don't exist? Can you choose to believe in the existence of Zeus?

Rex is dead, he was ran over by a truck, dad has already buried Rex.

Daughter...poor Rex, I loved him so much.
Dad...he's in a better place now dear and is looking down on us.
Daughter....is he really dad?
Dd...yes he is and he' wants you happy.
Daughter...ok dad, I'll be happy for Rex

That sure beats the hell out of

Daughter...poor Rex, I loved him so much.
Dad...Rex is dead, forget about it.

Dude, it's always better to have something to believe in. Ya ever see a football game and there lays a hurt teammate, as all those big badasses kneel in a prayer. Then there's the prayer before the game.

What you'd just stand there loking stupid?

[Avante]

No one here is going to answer any of your retarded questions anymore because you never ever answer theirs except with the retarded "you're stupid" answer.
Need proof of this?
Post #12.
We know your game. You've been exposed for the fraud you are, you know absolutely nothing of this subject, and NEVER ADD to the discussion.
When you start telling the TRUTH, maybe then someone will listen.
Until then, just stay out of discussions concerning religious matters, okay?
Because you look like a fool at best.
:lmao


Bro, when does it hit you this Blake guy is fucking retarded? Look at him...STILL...following me around, is that sad or what?

[Avante]

Just as I suspected, nobody can come up with anything about how being an atheist is the way to go.

[Cry Havoc]

Actually, research suggests that happiness is linked to spirituality, not religion. It's about seeking peace in your life, not following any particular god or deity.

Unless you really believe that Christians are the happiest segment of people on the planet... Which is laughable.

[DMC]

Rex is dead, he was ran over by a truck, dad has already buried Rex.

Daughter...poor Rex, I loved him so much.
Dad...he's in a better place now dear and is looking down on us.
Daughter....is he really dad?
Dd...yes he is and he' wants you happy.
Daughter...ok dad, I'll be happy for Rex

That sure beats the hell out of

Daughter...poor Rex, I loved him so much.
Dad...Rex is dead, forget about it.

Dude, it's always better to have something to believe in. Ya ever see a football game and there lays a hurt teammate, as all those big badasses kneel in a prayer. Then there's the prayer before the game.

What you'd just stand there loking stupid?

I'd say he's dead, that sucks. You should have taken better care of your fucking dog. That can happen if you neglect your pet, he can get killed. Death is final, as far as we know. I don't think even the Bible says dogs have an afterlife.

No, I don't think lying to my kids is better than them having to face reality.

However, do you have any thoughts on the matter than aren't in the form of a list or a conversation between make believe people?

[Franklin]

I don't think it's a matter of religion tbh. Whatever religion one believes in, it gives people faith and let them see the brighter side of life, and therefore gives them a more positive attitude towards life. You don't need to believe in any specific religion but everyone should have faith, and Goddess is my faith, I mean both Goddesses. They make me a better person and allow me to live more positively and more happily.

[DMC]

Just as I suspected, nobody can come up with anything about how being an atheist is the way to go.

Being honest with yourself is the way to go. I honestly don't believe in your god or any other god for that matter, and I won't believe in such until I am compelled to do so by overwhelming evidence. That's how my mind works. I notice you ignored the epistemological question I posed.

[Avante]

Actually, research suggests that happiness is linked to spirituality, not religion. It's about seeking peace in your life, not following any particular god or deity.

Unless you really believe that Christians are the happiest segment of people on the planet... Which is laughable.

Well according to everything I've read you're only about 100% wrong.

[Avante]

Being honest with yourself is the way to go. I honestly don't believe in your god or any other god for that matter, and I won't believe in such until I am compelled to do so by overwhelming evidence. That's how my mind works. I notice you ignored the epistemological question I posed.

So do most those in your orbit share your opinion on this?

[DMC]

So do most those in your orbit share your opinion on this?

You start a thread about belief and right away you refuse to discuss it. I pegged you right.

[Cry Havoc]

Well according to everything I've read you're only about 100% wrong.

So the one article, then?

Do you actually think Christians are the happiest people on Earth? You're aware that white protestants have the highest suicide rate for any group, correct?

[Cry Havoc]

This is sad to watch, I actually pity the boy.

But, notice how the freak just can't fathom reality? All those studies that tell us about the benefits of living with a God and the freak still doesn't get it, wow!.

Clearly you've been paying attention to all that stuff they talk about in church. Jesus just loved to vindictively attack people with petty names.

[Avante]

You start a thread about belief and right away you refuse to discuss it. I pegged you right.

This isn't about.....is there a God. We all know that's always a huge waste of time, have you ever een anyone say...."I was wrong, you're right"...and you never will.

This is about those who do belive being happier than those who don't. Now I'l ask again.......can you show me anything talking about how much better it is toi be an atheist?

[Avante]

So the one article, then?

Do you actually think Christians are the happiest people on Earth? You're aware that white protestants have the highest suicide rate for any group, correct?

Have you read any of those articles I posted at all? So they are wrong?

[Avante]

Clearly you've been paying attention to all that stuff they talk about in church. Jesus just loved to vindictively attack people with petty names.

This isn't about that....HELLO!!!!!!...this is about studies proving that people with religion are better off than those without it.
Now.....can you show me any study/article talking about how much better life is for an atheist?

[Avante]

I challenge this board to show me one study/article talking about how much better off a person is if they are an atheist.

[Avante]

So it's moments before hitting the field for the big game, the coach says...ok men take a knee. What there stands our dumb atheist?

Billy Bob the star QB is hurt, it looks bad, his teamates are concerned, they want to kneel say a team prayer for Billy Bob, what there stands our dumb atheist?

It's Christmas, you get a card with the baby Jesus on the front, what, our dumb atheist dumps it? Do dumb atheists even have a Christmas, or is it a fake Christmas without any mention of what the day is about. I guess Easter is all about marshmellow chickies and bunnies, hahahaha!!!!!!!!!! Celerbrating an egg hunt, hahahaha!!!!!!!

[Clipper Nation]

Just as I suspected, nobody can come up with anything about how being an atheist is the way to go.
Religion expects us to believe in an infallible, almighty god that still chose to create you of all people.... hence, atheism is the way to go :lol

[Avante]

Religion expects us to believe in an infallible, almighty god that still chose to create you of all people.... hence, atheism is the way to go :lol

Oh hell yes, nothing cooler than hanging out on a messageboard you never add to just to bug people and look stupid in doing it.

I keep waiting for one of you dumb fuck atheists to show me anything talking about how it's better off to be stupid.

CN, don't you ever smile? You always look as if you're about to fart. Don't get invited to many parties do ya little man?

[Blake]

I didn't stutter, my statement stands, not to mention it is the truth too.

No, it's a lie, easily debunked.

You're unintelligent and indecent.

[Clipper Nation]

Oh hell yes, nothing cooler than hanging out on a messageboard you never add to just to bug people and look stupid in doing it.

Nobody ever accused you of being cool :lol

[Blake]

I keep waiting for one of you dumb fuck atheists to show me anything talking about how it's better off to be stupid.



Plenty of studies show atheists are more intelligent than religious people.

[Cry Havoc]

This isn't about that....HELLO!!!!!!...this is about studies proving that people with religion are better off than those without it.
Now.....can you show me any study/article talking about how much better life is for an atheist?

I didn't disagree with you. I just expanded the field of your premise. Football players are more athletic and in better shape than the average person. But any professional athlete is. You're looking at one study focused one segment of the population and stating that ONLY football players are more athletic, to extend the comparison. The numbers are broader than that.

Psychologist Mark Holder and colleagues at the University of British Columbia in Canada discovered in their research with children that 6.5 to 16.5 per cent of children's happiness is attributable to spirituality. This research, published in 2008, was the first to establish the importance of spirituality to children. To put the importance of spirituality in context, this reseach showed that money only accounts for one per cent of children's happiness and whether children attended public or private schools had no effect. The researchers explained the reasons for their findings by emphasising the link between spirituality and meaning, hope, positive social norms and a social network. The research was undertaken with children aged 9-12.

http://www.centreforconfidence.co.uk/flourishing-lives.php?p=cGlkPTE3NCZpZD02ODU=

The Role of Religion and Spirituality in Mental and Physical Health

An increased interest in the effects of religion and spirituality on health is apparent in the psychological and medical literature. Although religion in particular was thought, in the past, to have a predominantly negative influence on health, recent research suggests this relationship is more complex. This article reviews the literature on the impact of religion and spirituality on physical and mental health, concluding that the influence is largely beneficial. Mechanisms for the positive effect of religion and spirituality are proposed.

http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/10/1/21.short

The role of spiritual and religious factors in health, viewed from a scientific perspective, has been yielding interesting if not intriguing results. In general, studies have reported fairly consistent positive relationships with physical health, mental health, and substance abuse outcomes, mostly using cross-sectional or prospective designs. Some spiritual or religious factors, however, have failed in some studies to demonstrate significant outcomes. Empirical relationships have been commonly based on only a few questionnaire items. Adequate controls for possible moderating or confounding factors that could explain health outcomes have often been missing. A healthy skepticism seems called for, given the need to clarify and refine concepts, such as spirituality; to develop comprehensive assessments; and to conduct experimentally designed studies. Although the overall evidence is promising enough to warrant careful and expanded study, the need for a methodological pluralism in research and for cultural sensitivity is recommended.

http://hpq.sagepub.com/content/4/3/291.short


Should I link you to more scholarly peer reviewed articles?

[Cry Havoc]

Plenty of studies show atheists are more intelligent than religious people.

Probably why they're so unhappy. :lol

[xmas1997]

Probably why they're so unhappy. :lol

I think the real problems begin when the FANATICS on both sides of the issue stick their noses into it.
We have those posting on this site for example.
We mistake them for trolls, or idiots, or we just say they are ignorant.
But it is probably closer to the truth that they are either fanatics or kids, because most discriminating intelligent reasonable adults do not subscribe to, or condone, this type of behavior, we get along just fine and allow our neighbors to believe what ever it is that floats their boats, we don't even laugh at them, we give people due respect even when we disagree.
The fanatics or kids, on both sides, laugh and ridicule IMHO.

[Cry Havoc]

I think the real problems begin when the FANATICS on both sides of the issue stick their noses into it.
We have those posting on this site for example.
We mistake them for trolls, or idiots, or we just say they are ignorant.
But it is probably closer to the truth that they are either fanatics or kids, because most discriminating intelligent reasonable adults do not subscribe to, or condone, this type of behavior, we get along just fine and allow our neighbors to believe what ever it is that floats their boats, we don't even laugh at them, we give people due respect even when we disagree.
The fanatics or kids, on both sides, laugh and ridicule IMHO.

To think that people are only unhappy because they're being trolled is just a tad silly.

[xmas1997]

To think that people are only unhappy because they're being trolled is just a tad silly.

I agree. Plus I've been unfairly accused of that very thing on this site on many occasions.
Maybe it was because my responses seemed too severe to them, or for whatever reason.
I do know I have mistaken others for being trolls on here many times, when the real truth may be entirely different and much more basic.
I may have been giving them more credit than what they were worth, or the opposite.
:lol

[DMC]

This isn't about.....is there a God. We all know that's always a huge waste of time, have you ever een anyone say...."I was wrong, you're right"...and you never will.

This is about those who do belive being happier than those who don't. Now I'l ask again.......can you show me anything talking about how much better it is toi be an atheist?

Epistemology isn't about god vs no god. It's a study of belief itself, about knowledge which leads to belief. What causes beliefs to form? Compelling evidence that becomes knowledge. Knowledge is just a strong belief, as things we seem to think we know are often debunked. You seem to think the beliefs are matters of choice, as if we can go down a list of suggestions and believe anything we like. I even see that quite often, where someone much like yourself will say "believe whatever you like", and it's akin to saying "your destiny is in your hands".

Many debates between atheists and theists revolve around fundamental issues which people don't recognize or never get around to discussing. Many of these are epistemological in nature: in disagreeing about whether it's reasonable to believe in the existence of god, to believe in miracles, to accept revelation and scriptures as authoritative, and so forth, atheists and theists are ultimately disagreeing about basic epistemological principles. Without understanding this and understanding the various epistemological positions, people will just end up talking past each other.

[xmas1997]

Epistemology isn't about god vs no god. It's a study of belief itself, about knowledge which leads to belief. What causes beliefs to form? Compelling evidence that becomes knowledge. Knowledge is just a strong belief, as things we seem to think we know are often debunked. You seem to think the beliefs are matters of choice, as if we can go down a list of suggestions and believe anything we like. I even see that quite often, where someone much like yourself will say "believe whatever you like", and it's akin to saying "your destiny is in your hands".

Many debates between atheists and theists revolve around fundamental issues which people don't recognize or never get around to discussing. Many of these are epistemological in nature: in disagreeing about whether it's reasonable to believe in the existence of god, to believe in miracles, to accept revelation and scriptures as authoritative, and so forth, atheists and theists are ultimately disagreeing about basic epistemological principles. Without understanding this and understanding the various epistemological positions, people will just end up talking past each other.

I agree totally with you. At least half the debates center around accusations that one or the other has made in connection with the original discussion, and usually is a result of a misunderstanding.
And as you say, they end up talking past each other, or arguing over a pointless point.

[DMC]

I agree totally with you. At least half the debates center around accusations that one or the other has made in connection with the original discussion, and usually is a result of a misunderstanding.
And as you say, they end up talking past each other, or arguing over a pointless point.
Atheists and theists differ in what they believe: theists believe in some god, atheists do not. Although their reasons for believing or not believing vary, it's common for atheists and theists to also differ in what they consider to be appropriate criteria for truth and, therefore, the proper criteria for a reasonable belief. Theists commonly rely upon criteria like tradition, custom, revelation, faith, and intuition. Atheists commonly reject these criteria in favor of correspondence, coherence, and consistency. Without discussing these different approaches, debates over what ones believes are unlikely to go very far.

[xmas1997]

Atheists and theists differ in what they believe: theists believe in some god, atheists do not. Although their reasons for believing or not believing vary, it's common for atheists and theists to also differ in what they consider to be appropriate criteria for truth and, therefore, the proper criteria for a reasonable belief. Theists commonly rely upon criteria like tradition, custom, revelation, faith, and intuition. Atheists commonly reject these criteria in favor of correspondence, coherence, and consistency. Without discussing these different approaches, debates over what ones believes are unlikely to go very far.

Which would greatly explain why they rarely get very far on here.
I actually think this forum could be a great platform for discussions and debates of this nature, but it certainly isn't for everyone. Some prefer to ridicule and deride because the topic bores them or they have no knowledge to add to it.
For me, it is important to establish a clear and level playing field before going too deeply into the subject.
In order for me to do that I have to ask questions to get an idea of where the other person is coming from, or what he thinks he knows.
Otherwise it is like shooting in the dark, because these different "approaches" that you speak of never get a common ground to move from.

[DMC]

Atheists tend to be either exclusively or primarily empiricists: they insist that truth-claims be accompanied by clear and convincing evidence which can be studied and tested. Theists tend to be much more wiling to accept rationalism, believing that "truth" can be attained through revelations, mysticism, faith, etc. This is consistent with how atheists tend to place primacy on the existence of matter and argue that the universe is material in nature whereas theists tend to place primacy on the existence of mind (specifically: the mind of God) and argue that existence is more basically spiritual and supernatural in nature.

[xmas1997]

Science tends to support both IMHO, in certain respects. Such as repetition and replication. And the idea that all matter is illusory in that in its basic form is energy.

[DMC]

Science tends to support both IMHO, in certain respects. Such as repetition and replication. And the idea that all matter is illusory in that in its basic form is energy.
Rationalism is not a uniform position. Some rationalists will simply argue that some truths about reality can be discovered through pure reason and thought (examples include truths of mathematics, geometry and sometimes morality) while other truths do require experience. Other rationalists will go further and argue that all truths about reality must in some way be acquired through reason, normally because our sense organs are unable to directly experience outside reality at all.

[xmas1997]

Rationalism is not a uniform position. Some rationalists will simply argue that some truths about reality can be discovered through pure reason and thought (examples include truths of mathematics, geometry and sometimes morality) while other truths do require experience. Other rationalists will go further and argue that all truths about reality must in some way be acquired through reason, normally because our sense organs are unable to directly experience outside reality at all.

And thus the line of demarcation between science and philosophy further gets grayer until eventually there is none.

[DMC]

And thus the line of demarcation between science and philosophy further gets grayer until eventually there is none.
Empiricism, on the other hand, is more uniform in the sense that it denies that any form of rationalism is true or possible. Empiricists may disagree on just how we acquire knowledge through experience and in what sense our experiences give us access to outside reality; nevertheless, they all agree that knowledge about reality requires experience and interaction with reality.

[xmas1997]

Empiricism, on the other hand, is more uniform in the sense that it denies that any form of rationalism is true or possible. Empiricists may disagree on just how we acquire knowledge through experience and in what sense our experiences give us access to outside reality; nevertheless, they all agree that knowledge about reality requires experience and interaction with reality.

But don't they also require replicable proof? How else do they posit their theories?

[DMC]

But don't they also require replicable proof? How else do they posit their theories?
If you believe that all crows are black without ever having any experience with crows or birds, then that belief does not qualify as knowledge. It may be true - but you weren't rationally justified in believing it.


Similarly, if you believe that all dogs are large because you have never encountered a small dog, that also would not qualify as knowledge. The belief may have some reasonable justification, but the claim simply isn't true. Verification is the process by which we make sure that what hear has some basis in truth. This is vital because we are fallible - it isn't true that any idea which occurs to us is correct. Since it makes no sense to say that a person knows something which is false (i.e., that 2 + 2 = 5), we must make some effort to verify information before being able to properly say that we know it.

So when someone says they know a god exists, what are they actually saying? Aren't they saying they hope a god exists, that they feel that a god exists.. that it feels right to them to hold such a position? Is it actually knowledge, or even belief?

[xmas1997]

If you believe that all crows are black without ever having any experience with crows or birds, then that belief does not qualify as knowledge. It may be true - but you weren't rationally justified in believing it.


Similarly, if you believe that all dogs are large because you have never encountered a small dog, that also would not qualify as knowledge. The belief may have some reasonable justification, but the claim simply isn't true. Verification is the process by which we make sure that what hear has some basis in truth. This is vital because we are fallible - it isn't true that any idea which occurs to us is correct. Since it makes no sense to say that a person knows something which is false (i.e., that 2 + 2 = 5), we must make some effort to verify information before being able to properly say that we know it.

So when someone says they know a god exists, what are they actually saying? Aren't they saying they hope a god exists, that they feel that a god exists.. that it feels right to them to hold such a position? Is it actually knowledge, or even belief?

Ah yes, this is true, but what if what we know is true, cannot be replicable because it is subjective to ourselves?
Do we reject it as being a flight of fancy or a whim of the moment, or do we delve deeper and do our best to understand it?
I may be diverging from the discussion a bit, but your opinion is welcomed.

[DMC]

Ah yes, this is true, but what if what we know is true, cannot be replicable because it is subjective to ourselves?
Do we reject it as being a flight of fancy or a whim of the moment, or do we delve deeper and do our best to understand it?
I may be diverging from the discussion a bit, but your opinion is welcomed.

You are merging into a solipsism argument. Rene says stop... don't do it. The fact you just asked me that question and said my opinion is welcomed means your "cannot be replicated" is false. Since I cannot physically implant an idea into your mind, it must be replicated just from the words I type.

There is knowledge of personal experience, which is the type meant when someone says "I know war" or "I know pain." In these instances, the person can draw upon personal experiences not otherwise available to others.

[xmas1997]

You are merging into a solipsism argument. Rene says stop... don't do it.

:lol Okay.