Dave & Busters basketball game scam

[Vashner]

So last night some friends invited me for a cold beer and a couple games at Dave & Busters.

They announced a competition for a Autographed Tim Duncan Spurs Jersey.

Ok here is the scam part. You sign up for this 15 people.. BUT... some employee comes out and you have to BEAT THE D&B Employee...

Mind you your paying CASH to play this with your D&B power card...
Of course NO ONE wins the Duncan Jersey.

W T F is that? That's like playing in a pool tourney and a guy that works for the pool hall walks out with some named "irene" pool stick etc..

What a scam....

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

When did they force you to enter? When did you ask about the level of competition? Did they provide a rule sheet or something that said they wouldn't bring in a ringer?

No, then sorry about your luck.

[T Park]

lol.

Now now JB, using common sense and intelligence......

[CharlieMac]

Sounds fair. Sharpshooters are a dime a dozen.

[Vashner]

It's not typical for Employees to be involved in prize bearing contests of any sort.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Sure it is. Its a game and competition, and you're upset because it wasn't easy? OK!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sounds like you need to go to the gym and work on your jumper :lol

[Vashner]

It was a contest that should of been for D&B customers... that's the way it was presented. The employee came out at the last minute. It's a matter of business ethics and sportsmanship. I never said I competed this was something I observed.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

I just reread the first post and it made me laugh more. Ah, thats funny.

[T Park]

It's a matter of business ethics and sportsmanship.

No its a matter of you got your ass whipped, and you want us to feel bad for you.

[Vashner]

If I had not become physically disabled while working for the Federal Courts here in town, helping protect all you guys are your families from bad guys. Then maybe I would of entered the contest.... Seeing as how I can't shoot bball anymore and make it in the hole it would of been embarassing.

[T Park]

wtf are u babbling about.

[Vashner]

No its a matter of you got your ass whipped, and you want us to feel bad for you.

Man you can't even walk in my shoes bandwagoneer... back off...

The post has nothing to do with me.. I didn't need or want the jersey.. I wanted one of the excited spurs fans to get it.

[Vashner]

I also don't think Tim Duncan would appreciate his fan's being mislead like that either. He's not that type.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't why you guys are being so rude in this thread. Vashner is right. If it was represented as a contest for Spurs fans to come out and try to win a jersey, and then it ends up you have to play an employee and NO ONE wins the jersey -- it's just bad business.

[Ginofan]

Usually if a business holds some type of contest or drawing, employees aren't allowed to enter...

[Shelly]

I'm gonna have to agree with Vashner on this one. That doesn't sound fair at all.

[j-6]

You're pissed becuase you couldn't beat a waiter / carnie at HORSE?

:lol

You expected a competition for an autographed Duncan jersey to be some easy contest between you and only fourteen other people who've been drinking Crown and eating dinner?

:lol

Wow.

[Kori Ellis]

I think you guys are missing the point that I don't even think Vashner competed in the contest. I think he's just commenting on the situation, right?

[Spurfect]

If they DIDN'T announce that you were going to be competing against a D&B employee.. then I agree that it's not right. They should present the whole thing exactly the way it should be.. no "surpises" once everyone is entered. Especially if they are paying with their own money.. they should know exactly what it is they are getting into.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I just want to know if it was the game where you have the short shot that you can sit and bank them in all day (I've scored over 100 on that game), or the one where you're actually pumping up three pointers at the goal that is set at 10'2"...

I need details.

[Horry For 3!]

Sucks for you. :lol You should get better next time so you can beat the competition.

[j-6]

I don't understand why some of you think this is unfair. It's their house and they get to make the rules.

And if the fry cook can hoop better than you, that's your problem.

[Kori Ellis]

Why does everyone keep saying stuff to Vashner like "You were just pissed because you weren't good enough to win"?

By this post ....



If I had not become physically disabled while working for the Federal Courts here in town, helping protect all you guys are your families from bad guys. Then maybe I would of entered the contest.... Seeing as how I can't shoot bball anymore and make it in the hole it would of been embarassing.


.... you'll see the Vashner didn't even enter the contest. He's just commenting that it's a scam to promote it as they did and then have NO ONE win the jersey.

[Spurfect]

I don't understand why some of you think this is unfair. It's their house and they get to make the rules.

And if the fry cook can hoop better than you, that's your problem.

no what I think is unfair about it is that they DID NOT ANNOUNCE IT. If they make it seem one way and it turns out a different way (in this case bringing in a D&B Employee that they did not say would be part of it) then that is what makes it unfair. If they had made it clear how the game and rules would be beforehand, and everyone knew what they were getting into.. then it I wouldn't be thinking it was unfair.

[j-6]

Why does everyone keep saying stuff to Vashner like "You were just pissed because you weren't good enough to win"?

By this post .... you'll see the Vashner didn't even enter the contest. He's just commenting that it's a scam to promote it as they did and then have NO ONE win the jersey.


It's not a scam. If you are good enough to beat the employee, you'll win. So beat the employee and win the jersey.

[Kori Ellis]

It's not a scam. If you are good enough to beat the employee, you'll win. So beat the employee and win the jersey.

I understand that. I'm saying that's why VASHNER feels it was a scam. But YOU (and other people) are attacking him saying "you are just pissed you weren't good enough to win" when the guy has already said that he wasn't even in the contest.

It depends on how they promoted it. If they promoted it as "compete against other customers to win a Tim Duncan jersey" or they promoted it as "if you can beat the D&B employee then you win the Tim Duncan jersey".. Those distinctions would make the difference to me.

My only point in my last post is that you guys keep saying Vashner wasn't even good enough to win... he didn't even compete.

[j-6]

no what I think is unfair about it is that they DID NOT ANNOUNCE IT. If they make it seem one way and it turns out a different way (in this case bringing in a D&B Employee that they did not say would be part of it) then that is what makes it unfair. If they had made it clear how the game and rules would be beforehand, and everyone knew what they were getting into.. then it I wouldn't be thinking it was unfair.


It's a skill competition involving shooting a basketball at about a free throw distance. Unless Rick Barry is eating dinner in there, I'd feel I could beat anyone in the building, employees included.

And if I lost, I'd deserve it.

[T Park]

When did you ask about the level of competition? Did they provide a rule sheet or something that said they wouldn't bring in a ringer?


I refer back to what JB said, and also, it doesn't sound like they said its against just customers.

If the above did NOT happen, then this whole bitching post is baseless.

[Spurminator]

If they didn't indicate that an employee would be brought in at the last minute, then I would say it is bullshit. If people are paying to enter a contest without knowing all of the details, and then the Contest organizers throw in a surprise twist to make it more difficult, those people have been mislead.

There's a reason almost every Contest/Prize promotion includes the disclaimer that employees or family of employees are ineligible.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, and that reason is that the employees arent allowed to walk away with the prize. The employee here - as far as I can tell - was not eligible to win, but was actually a part of the contest, not a contestant himself.

It sounds to me like no one asked any questions, then wanted to cry unfair when they brought out the employee.

[Spurminator]

That kind of thing should still be communicated beforehand.

It's like telling someone they win a prize if they hit 10 free throws in a row, then (after they do it) telling them they need to make ten more.

If the employee didn't get the jersey, who did? Somebody must have.

[Kori Ellis]

it doesn't sound like they said its against just customers.



It sounds to me like no one asked any questions, then wanted to cry unfair when they brought out the employee.

Vashner said early in this thread that it was presented as if it was for customers only. If that's how it was presented (or promoted) and it wasn't really that way. Then no, it's probably not illegal because I'm sure it was listed in small print, but it's definitely scammy. (Is that a word?)

[Spurfect]

Yeah, and that reason is that the employees arent allowed to walk away with the prize. The employee here - as far as I can tell - was not eligible to win, but was actually a part of the contest, not a contestant himself.

It sounds to me like no one asked any questions, then wanted to cry unfair when they brought out the employee.

uh really, who is gonna think to ask "hey btw, is an employee gonna play?" yeah, you don't really think about that. especially if it was presented as customers competing only.

[Horry For 3!]

Why does everyone keep saying stuff to Vashner like "You were just pissed because you weren't good enough to win"?

By this post ....





.... you'll see the Vashner didn't even enter the contest. He's just commenting that it's a scam to promote it as they did and then have NO ONE win the jersey.
Never saw that post.

[Shelly]

uh really, who is gonna think to ask "hey btw, is an employee gonna play?" yeah, you don't really think about that. especially if it was presented as customers competing only.

Yeah....seriously, Manny...would you have asked if an employee (who probably has been able to practice a lot) was gonna play? I know I wouldn't have asked.

I wonder how long they've had that jersey that hasn't been won?

[Horry For 3!]

I think I could take on the employee unless it was like some nba player :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I woudln't have asked, but I wouldn't have been suprised either. You go to a carnival, you expect to shoot as smaller than regulation rims. You expect the games to be harder than presented.

I'm guessing no one won the jersey and its up for grab next time. Is this a contest they have all the time?

Maybe I'm just pulling a Clandestino, but I don't think this was unfair.

[Shelly]

Also...where there any kids in this contest?

[Kori Ellis]

Maybe I'm just pulling a Clandestino, but I don't think this was unfair.

You don't think it was unfair if it was promoted as a Customers Only contest and then it wasn't Customers Only?

[Shelly]

BTW, Vashner...did anyone come close to beating the employee?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not sure it was promoted as a customer only contest, and I'd be suprised if it was. Who goes out and promotes things as customer only?

[MannyIsGod]

If they said come compete against other Spurs fans, thats not same as saying it is customer only. You are competing against other Spurs fans because the employee is simply part of the contest, not a contestant.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not sure it was promoted as a customer only contest, and I'd be suprised if it was. Who goes out and promotes things as customer only?

"Compete against other D&B Customers to win a Tim Duncan Jersey".

^^That would be promoting it as a customers only contest.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think so. They were competing against other customers. It just so happend that they all sucked and no one was able to win. :lol

I don't know, I really don't see a problem with the contest. I don't see it promoted the way you guys are seeing it promoted.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't see it promoted the way you guys are seeing it promoted.

Umm.. you weren't there, so you don't know how it was promoted. The only one was there was Vashner - who said it was presented as a customers only competition.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm going off of what was posted in this thread, and I don't think the way he described it indicates competing in some type of one on one against anotehr customer. It WAS a customer only competition.

[Spurfect]

I guess it all depends on how it was presented. Vashner did it seem like other people that were either watching or participating were pissed about this too?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If the employee goes there on his days off, doesn't that make him a D&B customer? :lol [/devil's advocate]

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

It's a skill competition involving shooting a basketball at about a free throw distance. Unless Rick Barry is eating dinner in there, I'd feel I could beat anyone in the building, employees included.

And if I lost, I'd deserve it.

Actually, if its what i'm thinking it is, its who can hit the most ft's in 1 minute or something like that, just because you shoot a high % doesn't mean you are going to win, I played against my friend who wasn't as good of a shooter as me, but he had a quick release which allowed him to shoot more shots than me, he owned everyone at that game. So I imagine the employee was pretty much the same.

[MannyIsGod]

Damn motherfucker, where have you been? We thought you died! :lol

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

hahaha I got a job and my old computer died with spyware/viruses, (I learned my lesson about DL'n "stuff" off of Kazaa.

[The sone]

im gonna settle this. i used to work at d and b and yes they dont let you know how it works right until the end on purpose. and the guys that you shoot against are called techs. all they do all day is fix games and play them. including the basketball games. in fact the hoops ares smaller just to throw off your game. its kindda sad how d and b treats their customers. now am i saying what they did is illegal? no, but its not right and believe me they will probably get a good run out of that autographed jersey before anyone wins it, if at all.

[Kori Ellis]

im gonna settle this. i used to work at d and b and yes they dont let you know how it works right until the end on purpose. and the guys that you shoot against are called techs. all they do all day is fix games and play them. including the basketball games. in fact the hoops ares smaller just to throw off your game. its kindda sad how d and b treats their customers. now am i saying what they did is illegal? no, but its not right and believe me they will probably get a good run out of that autographed jersey before anyone wins it, if at all.

That's what I'm saying.

It's not illegal, but it's definitely scammy. (Yes this my second time using the word in this thread .. I know it probably doesn't exist.)

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

im gonna settle this. i used to work at d and b and yes they dont let you know how it works right until the end on purpose. and the guys that you shoot against are called techs. all they do all day is fix games and play them. including the basketball games. in fact the hoops ares smaller just to throw off your game. its kindda sad how d and b treats their customers. now am i saying what they did is illegal? no, but its not right and believe me they will probably get a good run out of that autographed jersey before anyone wins it, if at all.

When do they do this contest, I want to tell my friend about it. I don't know if he could win it, but he could give the tech a good run.

[MannyIsGod]

That sounds pretty unfair, but at the same time places with games like that usually do make them skewed. Dave and Busters is basically a glorified carnival.

[The sone]

That sounds pretty unfair, but at the same time places with games like that usually do make them skewed. Dave and Busters is basically a glorified carnival.


heavy on the freak show element!

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

heavy on the freak show element!


So you are a glorified carny... J/K

[The sone]

not anymore i had my third arm removed.

[SequSpur]

I own that basketball game at d and b...sssssssssssss

I am on my way to pick up that jersey.

Sheyitt.

[cherylsteele]

It's not a scam. If you are good enough to beat the employee, you'll win. So beat the employee and win the jersey.

That would be like entering a some drawing for a TV set at Best Buy or something and a Best Buy employees wins.

Or you go to a bowling alley and enter a tournament a find out you are going to play against the owner of the lanes after you sing up and pay your entry fee.

Or you go to a carnival and play ring toss head to head with a carnival employee....who always seems to win.

Vasner is right....you have a better chance at ring toss at the county fair or something.

[SequSpur]

your ass.....

Its called a challenge.. Bringing down the house champion.... It ain't like the employee won the prize.....

Only wusses complain, how bout practicing and taking your ass up there and give it a shot...

I declare Bullshit on the scammage.

[MannyIsGod]

That would be like entering a some drawing for a TV set at Best Buy or something and a Best Buy employees wins.

Except this was a game of skill not a drawing. And the employee didn't win anything.

[cherylsteele]

your ass.....

Its called a challenge.. Bringing down the house champion.... It ain't like the employee won the prize.....

Only wusses complain, how bout practicing and taking your ass up there and give it a shot...

I declare Bullshit on the scammage.

Not if the contest is "customers only".

If you are supposed to bring down the house champion, fine.....you need to inform the paying public as such.

[cherylsteele]

Except this was a game of skill not a drawing. And the employee didn't win anything.

Neither did the customer.

That wasn't a good analogy.....true.

But people put in money to enter the contest and expect a legit chance to win something and find out no customer won the item.

[King]

If they said that you'd face a ringer, fine. But, withholding that information is blatant deception. The people paid money thinking they'd be playing against other customers. But, at the last second, they bring out someone who does nothing but play the game all day long. That's deception, and yes, scammy (there you go, Kori).

Bring out the ringer -- but say that's what you have to beat. I'm sure the same amount of people would enter. Just don't dupe them into it.

(edit -- essentially, I said the same thing as cherylsteele -- didn't see it til just now, though)

[CharlieMac]

It's a skill competition involving shooting a basketball at about a free throw distance. Unless Rick Barry is eating dinner in there, I'd feel I could beat anyone in the building, employees included.

And if I lost, I'd deserve it.

I'm guessing it the hoops by the door. They seem to be standard 3 point range.

Either way, I agree. It's a skill competition, and as I said earlier shooters with range are a dime a dozen at D&B.

[exstatic]

Caveat Emptor.

[T Park]

Dave and Busters is basically a glorified carnival.

dont compare my business to them.

Our business has much better looking workers, we are far more proffessional.

That is all.....

[j-6]

That would be like entering a some drawing for a TV set at Best Buy or something and a Best Buy employees wins.

Or you go to a bowling alley and enter a tournament a find out you are going to play against the owner of the lanes after you sing up and pay your entry fee.

Or you go to a carnival and play ring toss head to head with a carnival employee....who always seems to win.

Vasner is right....you have a better chance at ring toss at the county fair or something.

The house always gets the odds when they're ponying up the prize, be it at T Park's carnival games, Dave and Busters, and of course the capital of all disposable income, Las Vegas. They're in it to make money, not run a charity.

Look, the contest was limited to 15 customers when the prize is worth anywhere between $499 (link) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5213626065&category=60592) and $899 (link) (http://store.yahoo.com/startcollecting/sc2106.html). Even if they paid $20 a piece to enter the contest, that's only $300. I can understand if the contest was for unlimited entry and the person with the best score got the jersey.

This is the same place where you have to charge a card to play games, and then they make all the gaming credit prices strange numbers so that eventually you're stuck with a card with not enough money to play a game. The only way to rectify this, obviously, is to cough up more money and recharge the card. If you don't, D&B just made a little extra for themselves without doing a thing besides inconvienencing their clientele.

Vashner, I apologize for saying you lost to the fry cook. You were smarter than the 15 people who got suckered in, anyway.

edit: I still stand by that it's their right to have some tech that works there join the contest.

[cherylsteele]

The house always gets the odds when they're ponying up the prize, be it at T Park's carnival games, Dave and Busters, and of course the capital of all disposable income, Las Vegas. They're in it to make money, not run a charity.

Charity is one thing but people are paying for the chance to compete with other CUSTOMERS.

That being said....I rarely play those games, when I do it is for the fun and I really don't expect to win anything. I have played skeebal and gotta stuff like a deck of cards and such. I play those games for the fun not the prizes.

[Spurminator]

Look, the contest was limited to 15 customers when the prize is worth anywhere between $499 (link) and $899 (link).

I guarantee you they did not pay that for the prize. If they are a Spurs sponsor (and I'm pretty sure they are) they probably got the jersey for free.

And I'm not so sure it's NOT illegal... There are laws about disclosure for prizes and contests, etc. That's why there always has to be so much legal fine print on any contest, even the ones where you don't have to pay to enter.

Vashner, you should consider writing some kind of Investigative reporter at a TV station.

[j-6]

I guarantee you they did not pay that for the prize. If they are a Spurs sponsor (and I'm pretty sure they are) they probably got the jersey for free.

And I'm not so sure it's NOT illegal... There are laws about disclosure for prizes and contests, etc. That's why there always has to be so much legal fine print on any contest, even the ones where you don't have to pay to enter.

Vashner, you should consider writing some kind of Investigative reporter at a TV station.

I never said they paid for it. But it's their jersey. They can do whatever they want with it. I just don't get why everyone thinks it's a big deal that an employee was entered into a basketball shooting game. He has to put the ball in the hoop the same way any of the other contestants do.

If the rules were slanted toward the tech, like his baskets were worth more, I would understand the point. But you shouldn't even enter a 15 man contest based on basketball shooting if you don't think you're any good at it... especially if it involves a paid entry.

I'm sure that at least some of those contestants had either played at that amusement before, had a hoop in their driveway, or maybe played a bunch in high school. Just because some kid that works there is part of the competition doesn't make him the second coming of Larry Bird.

[Spurminator]

You're missing the point altogether. Businesses have an obligation, whether legally or ethically, to be upfront with what they are selling. D&B sold a contest under the premise that contestants would be competing against other contestants.

Basketball skills, value of the prize... those are completely irrelevant. All that matters is the entrants were mislead.

The "employee" they entered was probably someone they knew could not be beaten, probably because he shoots on that machine every day in his spare time. I got damn good at Area 51 when I worked at the movie theater.

I'm surprised so many of you are so quick to shrug this off. I mean, it's not a national crisis by any means, but you're acting like misleading customers is okay if they suck at shooting hoops.

[j-6]

You're missing the point altogether. Businesses have an obligation, whether legally or ethically, to be upfront with what they are selling. D&B sold a contest under the premise that contestants would be competing against other contestants.

Basketball skills, value of the prize... those are completely irrelevant. All that matters is the entrants were mislead.

The "employee" they entered was probably someone they knew could not be beaten, probably because he shoots on that machine every day in his spare time. I got damn good at Area 51 when I worked at the movie theater.

I'm surprised so many of you are so quick to shrug this off. I mean, it's not a national crisis by any means, but you're acting like misleading customers is okay if they suck at shooting hoops.

(1) If they suck at shooting hoops, they're idiots for entering a basketball competition based on skill.

(2) I don't understand why it's a big deal for the employee to be entered. If the contest was over with, and the employee was allowed to match and beat the customers score, that would suck. But if he was in it and shot and competed with customers, and had to follow the same rules as the customers, I see absolutely no issue.

D&B's phone number is (210) 515-1515. Call them up and bitch if you feel someone's been slighted. I'm not being derogatory by any means, but those of you that think that this is a horrible business practice should sack up and complain rather than fighting with people like me about it.

[Useruser666]

:lol at everyone for jumping on Vashner.

:lol at one carnie for defending D&B and another carnie for needling them.

That game is ridiculous. It's a total scam. It's like shooting free throws and having an employee behind you trying to block the ball. It's like entering an amateur boxing competition and then watching a "house" boxer of Mike Tyson step into the ring. It's unfair unless clearly stated that you are competing against the employee and everyone else in advance.

I got your back Vash! :lol

[Das Texan]

dont compare my business to them.

Our business has much better looking workers, we are far more proffessional.

That is all.....



damn how proffesional is it to misspell professional?

[Das Texan]

was this whole deal illegal? no.

was it a scam? yes.


businesses are what they are, if they need a scam in order to make money then you know the true integrity of said business.

guess this means i am cutting up my D&B card now.

[Useruser666]

I am really confused. Was it on a real court or video basketball game? And what is wrong about an employee. He is no different than any other person. Whoever is the best shooter, wins. I think its fair. Was is HORSE or sink as many shots in a minute or what?

It was a game of "Who is tallest and has the longest dick?" contest.

[batman2883]

Man when do they have this competition going on, i am the master at the basketball shooting game, i have a perfect technique ive been winning prizes from everywhere with that freaking game....i shall win it and take a picture of me getting the prize and post it on here

[CosmicCowboy]

What a hilarious thread. The reading comprehension of some posters in here is scary. Vashner you are right...throwing an employee ringer in without disclosing it is unethical. It's not illegal but it still sucks.

whats even funnier is that this thread is 4 pages long and no one has commented yet about the irony of giving a Tim Duncan jersey as the prize for what is essentially a free throw contest. Thats like giving a Steve Kerr throwback as the prize for a slam dunk competition...:)

[SWC Bonfire]

Surprize, contestants! You'll be competing against Dave & Buster's employee of the week Chuck Person!

[batman2883]

Surprize, contestants! You'll be competing against Dave & Buster's employee of the week Chuck Person!

Ha ha ha ha i can take him.....free throws are the easiest shots in the world...i have a flawless technique i shall claim this Jersey in the name of SpursTalk and all my fallen homies who couldnt beat the employee before me.

[bigzak25]

So last night some friends invited me for a cold beer and a couple games at Dave & Busters.

They announced a competition for a Autographed Tim Duncan Spurs Jersey.

Ok here is the scam part. You sign up for this 15 people.. BUT... some employee comes out and you have to BEAT THE D&B Employee...

Mind you your paying CASH to play this with your D&B power card...
Of course NO ONE wins the Duncan Jersey.

W T F is that? That's like playing in a pool tourney and a guy that works for the pool hall walks out with some named "irene" pool stick etc..

What a scam....


yo Vdawg, AHF said it best, go to the court and work on your jumper. don't ever let a situation own you. you control your own destiny. go practice and go get your effin jersey and tell the 'suprise employee' to kiss your ass. :smokin



If it was represented as a contest for Spurs fans to come out and try to win a jersey, and then it ends up you have to play an employee and NO ONE wins the jersey -- it's just bad business.

well, i have to say that businesses are in existence to make money.

it is definitely bad ethics, but more people will come back and spend cash trying to win that damn thing, thus more money, thus good business.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Let me explain my position and post in this thread.

Is it pretty shady and unethical? Yeah.

Is it illegal? I don't know.

Is Vashner fast approaching Clandestino status and I find it a little funny when they gets shit on? Yeah.

[kris]

[QUOTE=Das Texan]was this whole deal illegal? no.

QUOTE]

Don't be so sure about that. A common misconception is that just because something is stated in fineprint or written into a contract, it is legal. That is not always the case. For example, if you defraud someone who signs a binding agreement to be defrauded, it is still illegal to defraud someone. Thus, one cannot make a valid contract out of an illegal agreement.

This prize game may very well be legal, but it would be interesting to see it ruled on. Egregious immoral terpritude and unethical behavior can be grounds for a rejection of the agreement. Sometimes the judge has a large discretion on this.

A major detail for the legality of this contest is probably the venue it take place since Dave and Busters is known for the types of games where you have to play $50 to win a $7 prize. Thus, contestants should have been aware it wouldn't have been as easy to win.

All depends on the circumstances, every case fact pattern is unique. I would conclude it probably is legal because Dave and Busters has lawyers write the agreements, but I wouldn't be as sure as some of you.

Harvey Levin would know.

PS Big Zack, Vashner is physically disabled

[bigzak25]

PS Big Zack, Vashner is physically disabled



sorry to hear that. he can't physically make a basket in the hoop? that's sucks if true, and you are in my prayers brother. :tu

[E20]

If this game is a scam, then it sounds like entering the lottery is a scam aswell.

[E20]

Also how did the exact rules go?

Was it people taking turns against the employee or what? It seems kind of hard to play 1 on 1 with 15 people.

[cherylsteele]

If this game is a scam, then it sounds like entering the lottery is a scam aswell.

Like someone pointed out....the lottery is not a game of skill. Unless you are so uncoordinated that you have difficulty using a penny to scratch of the surface of the ticket.

[SWC Bonfire]

Like someone pointed out....the lottery is not a game of skill...

It's also not a game of common sense, either. :lol

[E20]

No one won the jersey and you don't see people regularly winning the lottery. So the lottery must be a scam right?

[Spurminator]

You also don't see Lottery officials winning the Lottery.

[E20]

As far as I know the employee didn't win anything either -- he was basically a tool part of the contest itself. If the particpants didn't know the exact rules of the game, then they should have asked. It was bad on the company's behalf to just declare that there is a contest without any official rules or notices. And besides what kind of basketball could you play with 16 people at once?

[Spurminator]

If the particpants didn't know the exact rules of the game, then they should have asked.

They should have ASKED?

Who would ask if a D&B Employee/Sharpshooter would make a surprise appearance and that it was possible that nobody who paid to enter would win? Who thinks to ask that? No one.

Hindsight is 20/20. The company is obligated to disclose all rules of entry into a paid contest.

[E20]

I thought the game was a scam? Yeah, it is bad that D&F or whatever it's called didn't supply the terms/rules of the contest but, everybody here is calling it scam/scammish/scammy game, which is not.

This is an example but, it's the same:

Win a million dollars if you beat our player 1 on 1. Entrance fee is 10$

is that a scam? For all we know that employee could come out or Micheal Jordan could come out? If you play and lose you can't call it a scam because you didn't know who you were playing against.

I'd just like to ask one question though. How did the contest begin, was this an ongoing process like everynight or did they just decide to announce this out of the blue that night and what was the main objective in it?

[Spurminator]

Win a million dollars if you beat our player 1 on 1.

If the contest was described like that, that's perfectly fair.

From Vashner's account, that's not how it was presented.

[E20]

So last night some friends invited me for a cold beer and a couple games at Dave & Busters.

They announced a competition for a Autographed Tim Duncan Spurs Jersey.

Ok here is the scam part. You sign up for this 15 people.. BUT... some employee comes out and you have to BEAT THE D&B Employee...

Mind you your paying CASH to play this with your D&B power card...
Of course NO ONE wins the Duncan Jersey.

W T F is that? That's like playing in a pool tourney and a guy that works for the pool hall walks out with some named "irene" pool stick etc..

What a scam....

The bold print is all the information given. After reading that without any more info it's hard to decide what this really is. They announce a competition to win a Tim Duncan jersey, then what......... I need more info, what kind of competition what are the objectives, what's the main goal? etc...

[Spurminator]

The rest was described later in the thread. And pretty much everyone arguing on his side has prefaced their argument with "If the Employee's Involvement Was Not Disclosed..."

[E20]

The thing I'm saying the employee wasn't an actual participant, he was the challenge.........I read all 4 pages and what I've gotten so far is that:

Some sort of basketball challenge consisting of 15 people
Winner out of 15 gets a jersey
The main challenge is you have to beat someone at whatever they're playing
The person is not introduced until the start of the game
The person you're playing against doesn't win anything

That does not sound like a scam to me........

[cherylsteele]

It's also not a game of common sense, either. :lol

True...but some people just don't relize it.

I play som skeeball and stuff just for the fun, and there is skill involved...kinda like bowling...but I don't expect to win much of anything. Those skeeball prizes....to win a $75 boom box, you have to play about 3x that much worth of skeeball. Save the money and by the stereo.

[tlongII]

I would have won that contest easily............ but I don't want a Tim Duncan jersey.

[bigzak25]

I would have won that contest easily............ but I don't want a Tim Duncan jersey.


don't fear the glory of TD, embrace it. He is a LEGEND in the making, and as it so happens, quite a good cook. That's the most tender brisket i've ever had, i don't know how he does it.. :tu

[TheTruth]

I would hire a lawyer. I'd get the strong arm.