Say Kawhi wins another FMVP next year....A 40% chance IMO.

[apalisoc_9]

He's currently my favorite player, but I dont know how he should be ranked in terms of all time greats if he wins another FMVP..

on one hand, I don't believe he's done enough in the RS to warrant a top 50 list..

But can i get names of players that won consecutive FMVP and is not in the HOF?

[spurraider21]

Shaq

[Thread]

That little squirt draggin' that gay galoot Duncan to it. Amazing, simply amazing.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

He'll already have as many fmvp's as Kobe :lol

[Mikeanaro]

80 % chance he is getting better.

[MeloHype]

He'll already have as many fmvp's as LeBron & Kobe :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Kawhi > KirbyPERIOD :worthy:

[kobe4life]

Kawhi > KirbyPERIOD :worthy:

Infidel that handicapped retarded kid will never be better than God. He's not in God's league and his Final's numbers don't even compare to God's best final's performances.

[Bynumite]

Kawhi > KirbyPERIOD :worthy:

That's 2/5 talking.

[HemisfairArena]

Leonard is on the cusp of passing Kobrick for 2nd best sidekick of All Time right behind Pippen. Duncan is grooming the kid the right way. Diaw even knew to latch on to Duncans ankle and hang on for a title.

[Bynumite]

Shaq winning FMVP during the 3peat years is expected. He's the most dominant center of all time after all.

Now Jim potentially losing his 3rd FMVP to an autistic socially awkward kid named Kiwi after losing to a french choker... oh lawd. Jim makes coat-tailing look like an art form tbh.

[Thread]

That little squirt draggin' that gay galoot Duncan to it. Amazing, simply amazing.

Arn

[KaiRMD1]

They never called a play for him and he won finals MVP. Imagine if they did call plays for him and the ol' sport is only 23.

[Thread]

They never called a play for him and he won finals MVP. Imagine if they did call plays for him and the ol' sport is only 23.

Might cause Duncan to give up the gay lifestyle and act like somebody. Kiwi took his gd manhood in the middle of fuckin' June.

[Arnold Toht]

That little squirt draggin' that gay galoot Duncan to it. Amazing, simply amazing.

And thus, he dropped out of the top 10 all the way down to 14 after the fact. You can't hide something like that, and the public doesn't forgive.

[Arnold Toht]

If Magic had joined the Bulls in 96 to ride Jordan's coattails, quite honestly, I'd slap him right out of the top 2.

[HemisfairArena]

As long as Duncan rings,,,

[Brunodf]

Damn that would be nice, 2/2 on FMvPs at the age of 23, the only active players ahead of him on the all time ranks would be Timmy and Lebron tbh

[-21-]

If the Spurs do repeat, I would love to see Tony get FMVP just to see OP's reaction tbh.

[Thebesteva]

Not since Chauncey Billups have I seen a more 'system' type player than Kiwi. Yes, hes a very good player and I actually respect him like Chauncey. But hes a system guy, hes not a marquee player like a Lebron or Durant.

[ambchang]

^ Thebesteva with the goods.

[Bill_Brasky]

Not since Chauncey Billups have I seen a more 'system' type player than Kiwi. Yes, hes a very good player and I actually respect him like Chauncey. But hes a system guy, hes not a marquee player like a Lebron or Durant.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/11/5799794/kawhi-leonard-awesome-spurs-hands-credit-nba-finals-2014

[Jenks]

He's the most dominant center of all time after all.He's a distant second. I never thought about it, but it's weird that of the two most dominant centers of all time, one was an athletic freak who could touch the top of the backboard, and the other was a fatty.

[dg7md]

Not since Chauncey Billups have I seen a more 'system' type player than Kiwi. Yes, hes a very good player and I actually respect him like Chauncey. But hes a system guy, hes not a marquee player like a Lebron or Durant.

Nothing wrong about that, tbh...

[ambchang]

People are making it sound bad that a system player is a bad thing, but it really isn't.

TheBestEva brought up Chauncey Billups as an example, and it's a perfect one. Billups was an average guard before landing on the Pistons, he was considered a bust, or at least a disappointment, though as he was the #3 pick of a draft.

But once he got to the Pistons, he shined. He got to play in a system where his strengths, especially those on offense, were magnified. He was given the ball, and dictated a very deliberate offense. It cattered to his strengths and he became a star. The Pistons wouldn't have won a championship, or even be a strong contender if it wasn't for Billups, not too many PGs could fit into that role.

OTOH, the reverse is also true, Billups can't fit into too many other systems to be successful either, and that is why he was a system player.

The same could be said of Karl Malone.

Saying a player is a system player doesn't mean that his contributions were trivial, it simply means that his skillsets are suitable for a smaller set of systems.

Players like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan, Magic, these are dominant players who could play in any system and dominate. Shaq forces the entire team to play his way because he is so ridiculously dominant, you can plug random guys around him and he would still make the team successful, same with Hakeem, and Jordan. Magic and Duncan are very versatile players who can adapt their style of play according to the personnel around them, but still be the centre of the system.

Up till now, I can't see Leonard as a dominant player who forces teams to play his way because he is too good, or one who is so versatile that he could be a cornerstone to multiple systems. But he is still ridiculously critical to the Spurs system. He may (and I hope he does) prove me wrong, or he may evolve into a franchise type of player in the future, but as of now, I don't see it.

[spurraider21]

Up till now, I can't see Leonard as a dominant player who forces teams to play his way because he is too good, or one who is so versatile that he could be a cornerstone to multiple systems. But he is still ridiculously critical to the Spurs system. He may (and I hope he does) prove me wrong, or he may evolve into a franchise type of player in the future, but as of now, I don't see it.
same thoughts here. i haven't bought into the "face/future of the franchise stuff" yet, but that doesn't mean i dont want him to be a spurs lifer

[apalisoc_9]

Really?

I've always thought the system didn't fit kawhi..

The System limits him.

[DAF86]

People are making it sound bad that a system player is a bad thing, but it really isn't.

TheBestEva brought up Chauncey Billups as an example, and it's a perfect one. Billups was an average guard before landing on the Pistons, he was considered a bust, or at least a disappointment, though as he was the #3 pick of a draft.

But once he got to the Pistons, he shined. He got to play in a system where his strengths, especially those on offense, were magnified. He was given the ball, and dictated a very deliberate offense. It cattered to his strengths and he became a star. The Pistons wouldn't have won a championship, or even be a strong contender if it wasn't for Billups, not too many PGs could fit into that role.

OTOH, the reverse is also true, Billups can't fit into too many other systems to be successful either, and that is why he was a system player.

The same could be said of Karl Malone.

Saying a player is a system player doesn't mean that his contributions were trivial, it simply means that his skillsets are suitable for a smaller set of systems.

Players like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan, Magic, these are dominant players who could play in any system and dominate. Shaq forces the entire team to play his way because he is so ridiculously dominant, you can plug random guys around him and he would still make the team successful, same with Hakeem, and Jordan. Magic and Duncan are very versatile players who can adapt their style of play according to the personnel around them, but still be the centre of the system.

Up till now, I can't see Leonard as a dominant player who forces teams to play his way because he is too good, or one who is so versatile that he could be a cornerstone to multiple systems. But he is still ridiculously critical to the Spurs system. He may (and I hope he does) prove me wrong, or he may evolve into a franchise type of player in the future, but as of now, I don't see it.

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

[apalisoc_9]

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

Messi cock slurper with the Goods...

[vander]

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

his averageness in those areas would be exposed tbh

[apalisoc_9]

his averageness in those areas would be exposed tbh

STFU dumbass

[Daniel Sedin]

Next one is for Manu...

[Clipper Nation]

Next one is for Manu...

Frizzle status: confirmed

[Daniel Sedin]

Spurs fan being a fan of Manu: confirmed

[Kool Bob Love]

6

[ambchang]

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

That's the point, he's not the system but part of the gang. Kawhi, at this point, has shown that he is a borderline all star with the potential to be a regular all star. But no one is looking at hi as the next coming of Lebron or Durant. He could be a poor mans pippen if things fall in place, but that is still a stretch goal.

All in all, fantastic player, just that it's difficult to see him as a first ballot hall of famer.

[DAF86]

That's the point, he's not the system but part of the gang. Kawhi, at this point, has shown that he is a borderline all star with the potential to be a regular all star. But no one is looking at hi as the next coming of Lebron or Durant. He could be a poor mans pippen if things fall in place, but that is still a stretch goal.

All in all, fantastic player, just that it's difficult to see him as a first ballot hall of famer.

Well but you talked about him as some kind of player that wouldn't succed in another system (even comparing him with Billups), when in reality he made a lot improvements to fit in Pops and I could see him easily having equal or greater succes (in terms of individual numbers not team accomplishments) with other systems.

Your premise was that Kawhi was a "system player", he isn't.

[SpurSwag]

Kawhi might be a system player in terms of his development maybe not being possible with any other organization, as the player we drafted in 2011 needed a lot of work in several areas. However, due to a great coaching staff and his own great work ethic, the player that just won FMVP and hasn't even reached his cieling yet isn't a system player. This kawhi would flourish on any team in the league, posting greater numbers on most other teams probably.

[ambchang]

Well but you talked about him as some kind of player that wouldn't succed in another system (even comparing him with Billups), when in reality he made a lot improvements to fit in Pops and I could see him easily having equal or greater succes (in terms of individual numbers not team accomplishments) with other systems.

Your premise was that Kawhi was a "system player", he isn't.

Billups was a fantastic player. What is wrong with comparing Kawhi to him? Kawhi in another team would be billups in Denver level. What is wrong with that?

[DAF86]

Billups was a fantastic player. What is wrong with comparing Kawhi to him? Kawhi in another team would be billups in Denver level. What is wrong with that?

You said Kawhi is a system player, he isn't.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Lets call a spade a spade here. There is no reason to believe that Kawhi wont be a top 3 player in the league in a few years. He has all the tools but most of all the work ethic. Pop said he has never seen a more hungry player to get better and win. Under Pop, the sky is the limit for him.

[ambchang]

You said Kawhi is a system player, he isn't.

Is billups a system player? I would consider him to be one. Players who excel in one type of system and levels off significantly in others are system players. Doesn't make them bad players, just that they need a certain structure to excel and maximize their contributions.

Kawhi isn't so dominant that he can just take over a franchise. Again, he's like a poor man's pippen, and he wasn't even considered as a pre injury Paul George. Miami was the perfect opponent for him and that's why he couldn't in the regular season do what he did in the finals. Nobody in their right minds would consider Kawhi a franchise player at this point.

He may be able to do it one day, he just is t one now and hasn't shown that he is going to be one soon.

[ambchang]

Lets call a spade a spade here. There is no reason to believe that Kawhi wont be a top 3 player in the league in a few years. He has all the tools but most of all the work ethic. Pop said he has never seen a more hungry player to get better and win. Under Pop, the sky is the limit for him.

Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, love, curry, griffin, and depending on this years draft class, a lot of players will still be better than Kawhi. I can see top 10 if things really fall into place, top 3 would be unreal.

[spurraider21]

Lets call a spade a spade here. There is no reason to believe that Kawhi wont be a top 3 player in the league in a few years. He has all the tools but most of all the work ethic. Pop said he has never seen a more hungry player to get better and win. Under Pop, the sky is the limit for him.
Lebron Durant and Anthony Davis will be the top 3 players tbh, in some order

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Lebron Durant and Anthony Davis will be the top 3 players tbh, in some order

Ye of such little faith

[spurraider21]

Ye of such little faith
That's pretty accurate

[Malik Hairston]

Leonard isn't a franchise player-caliber player, tbh, that's obvious, but he can't be labeled a system player when he plays in a system that doesn't even suit his style of play:lol..

His numbers and performance is substantially better when he isn't playing with the Duncan/Splitter combination, and he's also reduced to spot-up shooting(which isn't his speciality) when Parker is on the floor with him, too..part of the reason Leonard was so great in the final 2 rounds was because the Spurs diverted from Parker-ball against OKC/Miami, along with Diaw playing over Splitter..

Leonard was the #1 ranked post-up wing player in the regular season, but he isn't permitted to post up when he's playing with Duncan/Splitter, for obvious reasons..Pop has also repeated that he doesn't even run plays for him:lol..his numbers when he plays as the #1 or #2 option in the offense are outstanding, I think that he has already shown that he can be a very good #2 guy on a title team IMO..

[TDMVPDPOY]

if hsi not a franchise player, then enrique isnt one, dude is nothing more then a ballhog

give kawhi the same amount of touches...he also can be anything u want, at leasts better then the ballhog mention

now he has to put up another 3 years playing alongside this ballhog who will stunt his growth, let alone take all the credit for other ppls contributions while gettin bailed out..

[Malik Hairston]

^I don't think Parker is a franchise player either, relax:lol..

[Splits]

Dude was barely a lottery pick. The expectations of him on this board are ridiculous considering he was drafted at 15 and only 3 years in.

[313]

Might cause Duncan to give up the gay lifestyle and act like somebody. Kiwi took his gd manhood in the middle of fuckin' June.
still graspin' for straws, eh, old man?

[Bill_Brasky]

Kawhi can get his own shot. Dude has some grown man moves that he's successfully used on some damn good defenders.....definitely not 'system player' status....

[DAF86]

Is billups a system player? I would consider him to be one. Players who excel in one type of system and levels off significantly in others are system players. Doesn't make them bad players, just that they need a certain structure to excel and maximize their contributions.

Kawhi isn't so dominant that he can just take over a franchise. Again, he's like a poor man's pippen, and he wasn't even considered as a pre injury Paul George. Miami was the perfect opponent for him and that's why he couldn't in the regular season do what he did in the finals. Nobody in their right minds would consider Kawhi a franchise player at this point.

He may be able to do it one day, he just is t one now and hasn't shown that he is going to be one soon.

Stop moving goal posts son, we're arguing Kawhi as a "system player" not a "franchise" one.

The reason Kawhi did what he did in the finals and not in the reg season is 'cause in the finals since game 3 he started to play 40 minutes per game and in the regular season he didn't even play 30. Give Kawhi 40 mpg during the reg season and watch his numbers grow maybe even to all-star levels.

And no, I don't think the Spurs' system gets the most out of Kawhi. I could see him posting better individual numbers under other styles of play.

[HemisfairArena]

Dude just barely turned 23,,,,who knows what the fuck he'll be? Is he a system player,,,,who cares? Kid shined on the biggest stage in professional basketball at 22 and brought his team a title. The base of his legacy has been started,,,it's up to him what he builds onto it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

someone correct me on this, did he break into the starting unit in his rookie season?

i felt that he got shafted by pop and drafted onto a team with 3tosb who has a ballhog on the team stuff up his campaign that year to be ROY

he looked like he couldve won ROY on any other team without a ballhog, dude clearly didnt get the green light and continue to do so...

if this clown aint gettin max contract, i be happy for him and green to find greener pastures on another team where they be paid market value and appreciated with a better role, then continue to bailout a turd who continues steal their credit contribution...u know who im talkin about

[Spurs 4 The Win]

someone correct me on this, did he break into the starting unit in his rookie season?

i felt that he got shafted by pop and drafted onto a team with 3tosb who has a ballhog on the team stuff up his campaign that year to be ROY

he looked like he couldve won ROY on any other team without a ballhog, dude clearly didnt get the green light and continue to do so...

if this clown aint gettin max contract, i be happy for him and green to find greener pastures on another team where they be paid market value and appreciated with a better role, then continue to bailout a turd who continues steal their credit contribution...u know who im talkin about

Obvious troll is obvious

[Thread]

The half tarded little shit dragged that faggot Duncan right to it. No denying it. Wish it weren't so, but, it's as plain as the nose on me face.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

The half tarded little shit dragged that faggot Duncan right to it. No denying it. Wish it weren't so, but, it's as plain as the nose on me face.

Duncan:: 5-1 (83%)

TOSB Kobe:: 5-2 (71%)

Bag stays in Cali little boy

[ambchang]

Stop moving goal posts son, we're arguing Kawhi as a "system player" not a "franchise" one.

The reason Kawhi did what he did in the finals and not in the reg season is 'cause in the finals since game 3 he started to play 40 minutes per game and in the regular season he didn't even play 30. Give Kawhi 40 mpg during the reg season and watch his numbers grow maybe even to all-star levels.

And no, I don't think the Spurs' system gets the most out of Kawhi. I could see him posting better individual numbers under other styles of play.

You are a system or role player if you are not a franchise player.

Franchise players are those players who can define and carry a franchise. If you are not one, I can't see you being anything but a system player, or worse, a role player or even bench warmer.

[DAF86]

You are a system or role player if you are not a franchise player.

Franchise players are those players who can define and carry a franchise. If you are not one, I can't see you being anything but a system player, or worse, a role player or even bench warmer.

lol that's a strange way of thinking.

If there's no middle ground between "franchise players" and "system players" where do you place guys like Manu, Tony, Bosh, etc?

[ambchang]

lol that's a strange way of thinking.

If there's no middle ground between "franchise players" and "system players" where do you place guys like Manu, Tony, Bosh, etc?

System players for sure.

Bosh was a borderline franchise player with the raptors, but that was a stretch.

[HemisfairArena]

You are a system or role player if you are not a franchise player.

Franchise players are those players who can define and carry a franchise. If you are not one, I can't see you being anything but a system player, or worse, a role player or even bench warmer.

Would you say Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, ect,,,are all role players since they haven't carried their teams to anything worth a shit?

[DAF86]

System players for sure.

Bosh was a borderline franchise player with the raptors, but that was a stretch.

:lol GTFO

So guys like Manu, Tony and Bosh wouldn't be able to duplicate what they have done in other teams? Yeah, that's an argument I strongly disagree with.

[ambchang]

Would you say Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, ect,,,are all role players since they haven't carried their teams to anything worth a shit?

Anthiny Davis is going to be a franchise player, Drummond is a role player with franchise player potential, irving is overrated as hell who's a system plays who thinks he's a franchise player and ditto for Kevin love

I put little stock in evaluating an individual player in the success of the team. Great Players can be in horrible situations that keep them from winning big. We as saw that in Barkley, dirk prior to 11, Garnett prior to 08, Stockton, Hakeem prior to 94, Jordan prior to 91, Lebron prior to 12, and the list goes on and on. No matter how great an individual is, basketball is a team game.

[ambchang]

:lol GTFO

So guys like Manu, Tony and Bosh wouldn't be able to duplicate what they have done in other teams? Yeah, that's an argument I strongly disagree with.

Manu will break down, tony will be what Marbury was, and bosh was a role player with Miami.

[HemisfairArena]

Anthiny Davis is going to be a franchise player, Drummond is a role player with franchise player potential, irving is overrated as hell who's a system plays who thinks he's a franchise player and ditto for Kevin love

I put little stock in evaluating an individual player in the success of the team. Great Players can be in horrible situations that keep them from winning big. We as saw that in Barkley, dirk prior to 11, Garnett prior to 08, Stockton, Hakeem prior to 94, Jordan prior to 91, Lebron prior to 12, and the list goes on and on. No matter how great an individual is, basketball is a team game.

Davis is gonna be a franchise player? ,,,,pure speculation,,,

[spurraider21]

I don't think Amb is on the right track here, tbh. arguing there's no spot in between franchise and role/system players... i disagree

[ambchang]

Davis is gonna be a franchise player? ,,,,pure speculation,,,

Davis has shown all the tools to be one. Of course it's pure speculation, just like saying Kawhi is going to be a franchise player is a speculation.

[ambchang]

I don't think Amb is on the right track here, tbh. arguing there's no spot in between franchise and role/system players... i disagree

Role players are different from system players. A player whose between a role player and a franchise player is likely a system player, or in some cases impact less all stars.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont like how the spurs have marketed the team that this is enriques team, it was never his team to begin with

i think this will hold kawhi back for the new season whether his going to be selected as allstar or not

cause all success goes to enrique while everything else is on the team...thats how voters and the media see it

i think its about time he gets his due, and it has always been his team the moment the spurs traded for him...

[lefty]

:lol

[Spur-Addict]

Frizzle status: confirmed

:lol