With Parker's deal, and the upcoming Kawhi deal..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Where do we stand? Will we have any room to sign a big name free agent? I was really hoping Davis would be a possibility.

[ducks]

who do we need
spurs are pretty set at most positions
seems just need role players that can make open threes

[Raven]

:lol davis

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

:lol davis

:lol Anthony Davis would shit on any big man in the NBA today. Already has. Do you know how many people state he's the second coming of Duncan? Obviously he's no Duncan, but he's got so much potential.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c68wPWRQOKM

[dbreiden83080]

:lol Anthony Davis would shit on any big man in the NBA today. Already has. Do you know how many people state he's the second coming of Duncan? Obviously he's no Duncan, but he's got so much potential.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c68wPWRQOKM

Yeah he is the second coming of a top 5 player of all time.. Give us a buzz when that train hits town..

[Raven]

:lol Anthony Davis would shit on any big man in the NBA today. Already has. Do you know how many people state he's the second coming of Duncan? Obviously he's no Duncan, but he's got so much potential.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c68wPWRQOKM

i was :loling on your idea that we have any chance of signing him tbh.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Yeah he is the second coming of a top 5 player of all time.. Give us a buzz when that train hits town..

So who would you rather have when Duncan and Gino retire? He's already a top 3-5 big man, arguably the best, at age 20. He also prefers small markets.

[dbreiden83080]

So who would you rather have when Duncan and Gino retire? He's already a top 3-5 big man, arguably the best, at age 20. He also prefers small markets.

Keep building through the draft.. Not a fan of hired guns being franchise guys..

[ThePop]

:lol Some people never learn that free agents won't come here, especially not another teams franchise player. This is a build through the draft team.

[dbreiden83080]

This is a build through the draft team.

The way it should be..

[Agloco]

Keep building through the draft.. Not a fan of hired guns being franchise guys..

Something tells me that if Davis were to find his way here, you'd find a way to get over it. :lol

[Emperor]

Just the thought of a Kawhi/Davis combo would be scary for the NBA.

[Richie]

Anyone talking about Davis doesn't understand the way the NBA works. He'll either get a max extension or Pelicans will match any deal he signs in restricted free agency. He'll be in New Orleans until at least 2020.

As for the original question, we're not extending Kawhi. We'll match any offer he gets as a restricted free agent (likely the max), but there is no benefit from the Spurs perspective to extending him before then.

Assuming Timmy comes back and Manu either retires or takes the Room exception, we'd have $20m to split between Duncan and a free agent. That could be $5m/$15m if Timmy takes another paycut or $10m/$10m if he doesn't.

If Timmy and Manu both retire, we get $20m for a free agent.

[ironman2886]

:lol Some people never learn that free agents won't come here, especially not another teams franchise player. This is a build through the draft team.
Franchise players haven't come to the Spurs, because the Spurs have never had the cap space.

[Robz4000]

Its about time to pink cat man tbh. A fourth of the threads on the front page are his and none of them are worth a shit. I mean god damn, you don't have to post a thread for every thought that pops into your head.

[Uriel]

Anyone talking about Davis doesn't understand the way the NBA works. He'll either get a max extension or Pelicans will match any deal he signs in restricted free agency. He'll be in New Orleans until at least 2020.

As for the original question, we're not extending Kawhi. We'll match any offer he gets as a restricted free agent (likely the max), but there is no benefit from the Spurs perspective to extending him before then.

Assuming Timmy comes back and Manu either retires or takes the Room exception, we'd have $20m to split between Duncan and a free agent. That could be $5m/$15m if Timmy takes another paycut or $10m/$10m if he doesn't.

If Timmy and Manu both retire, we get $20m for a free agent.
So assuming Tim and Manu both retire and we match a max offer sheet to Kawhi in RFA, we still get $20M to spend on a 2015 free agent?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Its about time to pink cat man tbh. A fourth of the threads on the front page are his and none of them are worth a shit. I mean god damn, you don't have to post a thread for every thought that pops into your head.

Does your pussy hurt? This is a legitimate thread/question.

[cjw]

We'll match any offer he gets as a restricted free agent (likely the max)

I know it's been asked before, but if someone throws a Parsons type offer at him (two years with option), we can still go back with a full five year max as the match?

[Robz4000]

Does your pussy hurt? This is a legitimate thread/question.

Jesus fuck I hope not. I knew your takes were shit before (:lmao Cum) but lately you've been reaching rock bottom. Thought maybe your trolling was getting better but that hick state edumacation might be too much for you after all.

[exstatic]

So assuming Tim and Manu both retire and we match a max offer sheet to Kawhi in RFA, we still get $20M to spend on a 2015 free agent?

No, not in that order. Kawhi has to be the last signing. His cap hold is ridiculously low, since he was drafted one pick outside of the lottery. That's what gives you the caproom to sign Tim and/or a FA. You sign Tim, court and sign the FA, and then use Bird rights to resign Kawhi over the cap.

[spurraider21]

but who would win 1 on 1?

[spurraider21]

i was :loling on your idea that we have any chance of signing him tbh.
this :lol

[Plum Island]

but who would win 1 on 1?

PS1

[Chinook]

Signing a big FA with cap space before reupping Leonard might put the Spurs in tax trouble in later years. It's very possible that the team will extend Kawhi then sign a FA with whatever's left over. There are actually quite a few good players who are on those types of deals. Millsap, Jefferson, West and Iggy each signed deals in that range last season. Deng signed such a deal this off-season. It's probably more likely that the team could attract a player of that caliber over a max-caliber player, anyway.

[Chinook]

but who would win 1 on 1?

Dreamcast, man. It had the memory card inside the controller. I don't see Kawhi or Parker getting that any time soon.

[spurraider21]

Pelicans have him by the balls since he will be an RFA first. he's not going anywhere

[timtonymanu]

Its about time to pink cat man tbh. A fourth of the threads on the front page are his and none of them are worth a shit. I mean god damn, you don't have to post a thread for every thought that pops into your head.

This

[Richie]

So assuming Tim and Manu both retire and we match a max offer sheet to Kawhi in RFA, we still get $20M to spend on a 2015 free agent?

Yes, but only if we sign the player before we match the offer sheet. Kawhis cap hold is $7m, so when calculating the money we have for free agency that is the number we use. Once we match the cap hit becomes whatever his salary is, for a max deal it'd be around $15m.

[Richie]

I know it's been asked before, but if someone throws a Parsons type offer at him (two years with option), we can still go back with a full five year max as the match?

No. If he signs a contract with another team, we match that contract exactly as far as I know. If he signs a 2 year deal with another team, we'll match it and get him on a two year deal. Very unlikely he would do that when he'll almost certainly get 4 year max contract offers. I think only the Spurs can offer him 5 years, and he'd only be able to get it by signing directly with us rather than letting us match somebody elses contract.

[Richie]

Signing a big FA with cap space before reupping Leonard might put the Spurs in tax trouble in later years. It's very possible that the team will extend Kawhi then sign a FA with whatever's left over. There are actually quite a few good players who are on those types of deals. Millsap, Jefferson, West and Iggy each signed deals in that range last season. Deng signed such a deal this off-season. It's probably more likely that the team could attract a player of that caliber over a max-caliber player, anyway.

I don't think the tax will be an issue with the way the cap is forecast to increase. If anything, slightly overpaid players signed next summer could become good value contracts by their final year.

It all hinges on whether Duncan comes back. If he retires then we could extend Kawhi on a max deal and still have $12m to spend, if he comes back then that figure would drop to MLE level money if we extend Kawhi first.

I agree a player like Deng, Millsap etc... is a much more likely option than a max level guy. As it stands, I expect the only max level free agent on the market will be Marc Gasol. Love will re-sign with the team he is traded to and Aldridge has said he plans to re-sign next summer with the Blazers. It won't be popular, but I think Stoudemire could be an interesting option. Wouldn't give him anything longer than two years (preferably partially unguaranteed or with a team option) but he played 65 games last year, might be worth a roll of the dice. Otherwise, Millsap and Afflalo will likely be the big names in free agency.

[davi78239]

Wow, where the hell are all the fans in that video??

[Richie]

Edit

[wildchild]

As for the original question, we're not extending Kawhi.
Is that a fact? Like Parker's extension early in july, nobody saw it coming but...


but there is no benefit from the Spurs perspective to extending him before then

Very unlikely he would do that when he'll almost certainly get 4 year max contract offers.

No benefit? Keep Leonard under contract 5 years/2020 instead of 3 years it's a clear benefit.

Match an offer and spend your money on max contract and have only 3 years that player because the last contract's year could be player option when Tim/Pop/Manu are gone, and then the young and elite two-way player -who recalls the Spurs didn't give him the extension when he asked- could sign with any contender team he wants??
That doesn't sound like a very good deal.

Also, I'm not sure about he wouldn't sign 2 years. Higher projected salary cap for next seasons, Lakers and other teams rebuilding, could be strong incentives to do it.
Who can be sure after the good relationship between the player and the team was broken...

[exstatic]

Is that a fact? Like Parker's extension early in july, nobody saw it coming but...




No benefit? Keep Leonard under contract 5 years/2020 instead of 3 years it's a clear benefit.

Match an offer and spend your money on max contract and have only 3 years that player because the last contract's year could be player option when Tim/Pop/Manu are gone, and then the young and elite two-way player -who recalls the Spurs didn't give him the extension when he asked- could sign with any contender team he wants??
That doesn't sound like a very good deal.

Also, I'm not sure about he wouldn't sign 2 years. Higher projected salary cap for next seasons, Lakers and other teams rebuilding, could be strong incentives to do it.
Who can be sure after the good relationship between the player and the team was broken...

If they don't want to extend him, you can be SURE that they will sit down and put the information in front of him about next year's cap room. He's not an idiot. He understands that putting better players around him makes his job easier. I'm quite sure that if they don't want to extend him, it's so they can use the cap room, and then turn around and MAX Kawhi for 5 years using his Bird rights.

Kawhi is NOT an emo bitch like Isaiah Thomas or Chandler Parsons. He's not going to pout, mainly because the Spurs will make him a part of the process.

[100%duncan]

Its about time to pink cat man tbh. A fourth of the threads on the front page are his and none of them are worth a shit. I mean god damn, you don't have to post a thread for every thought that pops into your head.

yep :lol

[wildchild]

Kawhi is NOT an emo bitch like Isaiah Thomas or Chandler Parsons. He's not going to pout, mainly because the Spurs will make him a part of the process.

Obviously, he isn't a big-ego guy but he -and his agent- can have a lot a questions like Why I should test free agency? You really think I'm the next face of the franchise or not? I didn't earn the extension in the playoffs? If Tony never tested the market, why me? Why I should wait for star FA's, if they aren't willing to play in San Antonio?, etc...

[cd021]

Keep building through the draft.. Not a fan of hired guns being franchise guys..

At some point the Spurs are probably going to need some hired guns if they don't want to bottom out. Or they can go the Pacers route (though that can take longer, selecting in the 10-15 range of the draft as opposed top 1-5)

The Spurs should have the basis for future rotation post big 3. Not sure if that can contend for a title but at the very least we should continue to be a playoff team, baring something unforeseen, through Parker's extension.

PG-Parker, Mills
SG-Green, Belinelli, Bertans
SF-Leonard, Anderson
PF-Diaw, Jean-Charles
C-Splitter

(assuming we resign Green, Beli and maybe even Joseph)

[cd021]

If they don't want to extend him, you can be SURE that they will sit down and put the information in front of him about next year's cap room. He's not an idiot. He understands that putting better players around him makes his job easier. I'm quite sure that if they don't want to extend him, it's so they can use the cap room, and then turn around and MAX Kawhi for 5 years using his Bird rights.

Kawhi is NOT an emo bitch like Isaiah Thomas or Chandler Parsons. He's not going to pout, mainly because the Spurs will make him a part of the process.

Just to be clear the Spurs can wait after next season and chase FAs because of Leonard's small cap hold (something like $6 million) and then max Kawhi out to a five year deal? Would that max be different in terms of money from the max contract he could sign now?

[Chinook]

Just to be clear the Spurs can wait after next season and chase FAs because of Leonard's small cap hold (something like $6 million) and then max Kawhi out to a five year deal? Would that max be different in terms of money from the max contract he could sign now?

Functionally, no. The only difference is that if Kawhi were to win MVP this season, he could get significantly more if he extends rather than re-signing in the off-season. Barring that unlikely event, the max would be the same regardless of when he signs it.

[cd021]

(Selected list of free agents)

Paul Milsap
Marc Gasol
Rudy Gay
Anderson Varejao
Monta Ellis
Al Jefferson
David West
Roy Hibbert

(according to Real GM) can be come FA's next season


The Spurs would have $44.3 million committed to 8 player. I included Leonard's $7.2 cap hold and presumed that Jean Charles and Bertans (I listed him for the Bi Annual exception of $2.1 million) comes over next season. The cap has been projected by some to jump as much as $4 million after next season (to $67.3 million)

That doesn't include Duncan, Ginobili, (I'd imagine both would retire after next season) Beli and Green.

[Richie]

Is that a fact? Like Parker's extension early in july, nobody saw it coming but...




No benefit? Keep Leonard under contract 5 years/2020 instead of 3 years it's a clear benefit.

Match an offer and spend your money on max contract and have only 3 years that player because the last contract's year could be player option when Tim/Pop/Manu are gone, and then the young and elite two-way player -who recalls the Spurs didn't give him the extension when he asked- could sign with any contender team he wants??
That doesn't sound like a very good deal.

Also, I'm not sure about he wouldn't sign 2 years. Higher projected salary cap for next seasons, Lakers and other teams rebuilding, could be strong incentives to do it.
Who can be sure after the good relationship between the player and the team was broken...

While your scenario is possible, I don't think it's likely. Your argument is that Kawhi wants a 5 year deal from the Spurs, but then goes and signs a 3+1 year deal with someone else? If he wants a 5 year max now (the only contract we can give him), why won't he want one in the summer?

I just don't see how Kawhi would turn down a 5 year max herein favour of a 3+1 or 2 year deal. The guaranteed money is too important, just look at what happened to Paul George and Derrick Rose. A players career can take a nosedive any time through injury, get the money while you can. The only exception to this in the league at the moment are Lebron, Davis and Durant. Those guys could suffer Rose/George injuries and still get max contract offers, I'm not sure anyone else could which makes the risks huge.

[wildchild]

While your scenario is possible, I don't think it's likely. Your argument is that Kawhi wants a 5 year deal from the Spurs, but then goes and signs a 3+1 year deal with someone else? If he wants a 5 year max now (the only contract we can give him), why won't he want one in the summer?

Because he wants a extension this summer, he said that he's confident extension will happen.
But if he won't get a contract extension, maybe sign a less-years offer could allow him to play next years (after 2017) on more competitive teams (than the Spurs without Tim/Pop/Manu) who don't care about luxury tax.

About the risk of injuries, you're right but also it would be another big reason to want a extension and not wait one season more.

[wildchild]

The guaranteed money is too important, just look at what happened to Paul George.

Paul George signed an extension, so the injury in his 4th year doesn't seem the same case for another player in his 4th year who didn't get the contract extension and becomes a free agent.

[Richie]

Because he wants a extension this summer, he said that he's confident extension will happen.
But if he won't get a contract extension, maybe sign a less-years offer could allow him to play next years (after 2017) on more competitive teams (than the Spurs without Tim/Pop/Manu) who don't care about luxury tax.

About the risk of injuries, you're right but also it would be another big reason to want a extension and not wait one season more.

I see what you're saying, but if Kawhi is willing to sign for 5 years this summer than I expect he'll be willing to sign for 5 years next summer.

Honestly, Kawhi isn't a Lebron level one-in-a-generation talent, it wouldn't be a franchise crippling move if we 'only' got him by matching a 3+1 deal. He's never even snifffed an All-Star or All-NBA team, before the finals there were questions over whether a max deal would be overpaying him. If he takes offence to not getting an extension this summer (something I think is very unlikely considering his personality, the franchise and the free agency situation) and he decides to take less years through restricted free agency then so be it.

For me, the risk/reward of waiting until the summer is worth it.

[wildchild]

it wouldn't be a franchise crippling move if we 'only' got him by matching a 3+1 deal...
For me, the risk/reward of waiting until the summer is worth it.

I disagree but understand and respect your opinion.

For me, Leonard changed everything for the Spurs and gave us the chance to win again.
I don't want to see him as part of the Next Big 3 with Paul and Griffin, or see how he makes decisive/crucial plays like his steal/block on Westbrook or his game 4 NBA Finals for other team.

That's why in a cost-benefit analysis I want the Spurs keep him happy/under contract 5 years and then sign another extension contract and...to be a Spurs for life.

[mrjap2x]

I like Davis' chance to become MVP in a couple of years but he won't be leaving NOLA at least before 2021.

[exstatic]

Because he wants a extension this summer, he said that he's confident extension will happen.
But if he won't get a contract extension, maybe sign a less-years offer could allow him to play next years (after 2017) on more competitive teams (than the Spurs without Tim/Pop/Manu) who don't care about luxury tax.

About the risk of injuries, you're right but also it would be another big reason to want a extension and not wait one season more.
Uh, your scenario of pre-signing him makes it seem as if they would be MORE concerned about the tax, and my scenario of courting/signing another FA makes it seem like they would be LESS concerned about the tax. Why would you bring that up as a supporting point of extending him as opposed to a new contract? If he wants to see them SPEND, then he should wait.

[wildchild]

Why would you bring that up as a supporting point of extending him as opposed to a new contract?

You mean the Spurs would be less concerned about tax? I know but I was talking about other teams who don't care spend their money and can sign two -even three- of biggest names on the market.
Kawhi divides his time between two cities, San Antonio during season and San Diego the rest of the year, he was born and raised in California, if the Spurs don't want to extend Leonard, he could want to play for those teams signing less-years offer to become unrestricted free agent in 2017 (he would return his home to play?)
Maybe it isn't likely but I think it's not impossible.

[Richie]

You mean the Spurs would be less concerned about tax? I know but I was talking about other teams who don't care spend their money and can sign two -even three- of biggest names on the market.

I see what you're saying about teams who spend, but at the same time I question if players really care too much about that. The Nets showed they were willing to spend big and hit the tax, didn't do them any good. If I'm a player I'd have reservations about those teams, an albatross contract is far more damaging to a franchise than not spending money. Paying huge tax didn't help the Lakers last year either.

The flip side is of course the Thunder, who gave away maybe the leagues best shooting guard in Harden because they were too cheap to amnesty Perkins. That was simply a terrible decision both financially and in basketball terms, which will be further compounded if Durant leaves.

I think it'll be interesting to see how many teams will continue to be happy to pay the repeater tax. It will get very expensive, even for big market teams.