Iraq is such an epic disaster

[DMX7]

Wow! What a disaster. George W. Bush.... the gift that keeps on giving. Republicans used to always ask "would you rather Saddam still be in power?". At this point, "YES" -- especially if it meant we were never there and didn't burn through trillions of dollars, lose thousands of american military and Iraqi civilian lives, and destabilize the whole region to boot. Things may not have been perfect before, but they are a complete epic shit storm right now; and this after all we sacrificed.

[boutons_deux]

And the Repug refuse ALL responsibility for bullying, lying USA into Iraq-for-oil

[hater]

Mission Accomplished.

Typical american style plant a flag and run back home :lol

[ElNono]

Post from June, 2011:


My opinion is that we should've GTFO (at least) 3+ years ago. The reality is that nobody in that shithole wants to change anything, so why keep burning money in that pit?
It's only a matter of time until them (Iraq too, IMO) will revert back to being a clusterfuck.

[DarrinS]

I thought Obama was going to heal the planet and make the oceans recede.

[InRareForm]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/losing-iraq/

[Winehole23]

I thought Obama was going to heal the planet and make the oceans recede.keep the dream alive, brother. you're about the only one left.

[Jacob1983]

America has basically destroyed that country. Pathetic.

[CosmicCowboy]

40,000 refugees starving on top of a mountain surrounded by ISIS troops at the bottom?

WTF? That's called a freaking target of opportunity.

Too bad they are just gonna do lmited airstrikes from our one freaking carrier in the region.

That shit is taylor made for "rolling thunder" out of Diego Garcia. Kill as many of those ISIS motherfuckers as possible.

[boutons_deux]

40,000 refugees starving on top of a mountain surrounded by ISIS troops at the bottom?

WTF? That's called a freaking target of opportunity.

Too bad they are just gonna do lmited airstrikes from our one freaking carrier in the region.

That shit is taylor made for "rolling thunder" out of Diego Garcia. Kill as many of those ISIS motherfuckers as possible.

I read where ISIS is succeeding so well because they are really an army, not rag tag terrorists, run by Saddam's Baathist/Sunni commanders.

[CosmicCowboy]

I read where ISIS is succeeding so well because they are really an army, not rag tag terrorists, run by Saddam's Baathist/Sunni commanders.

They are certainly part of it. It was a pretty monumental fuckup disbanding their army after the invasion.

[pgardn]

We are dropping food and water to the refugees.
We really screwed this one up.

There was a reason daddy Bush did not take Baghdad.
Conservatives criticized him later when we "had" to go back in.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think everyone in here pretty much agrees we fucked up in Iraq. I honestly can't understand why Boo keeps fantasizing that he is the only one that believes that. He is like a scratched record that just keeps playing the same rotation over and over.

[CosmicCowboy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we all can also all agree that ISIS is a huge threat to the long term stability of the Middle East and the world. If we continue to stand by and let them exterminate the Kurds it will be a monumental fuckup.

[DMX7]

I thought Obama was going to heal the planet and make the oceans recede.

Not even God can fix this one.

[boutons_deux]

I think everyone in here pretty much agrees we fucked up in Iraq. I honestly can't understand why Boo keeps fantasizing that he is the only one that believes that. He is like a scratched record that just keeps playing the same rotation over and over.

No fantasy here.

If y'all's Repugs bother to touch something, it always turns to shit.

Today is the 40th anniversary of y'all's Repug hero Tricky Dick becoming the only Pres to resign.

[DMX7]

No fantasy here.

If y'all's Repugs bother to touch something, it always turns to shit.

Today is the 40th anniversary of y'all's Repug hero Tricky Dick becoming the only Pres to resign.


Nixon sounded like a mobster on his secret audio recordings.

[DMX7]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we all can also all agree that ISIS is a huge threat to the long term stability of the Middle East and the world. If we continue to stand by and let them exterminate the Kurds it will be a monumental fuckup.

The Kurds are stronger than ISIS, but I am not against giving them limited support

[CosmicCowboy]

The Kurds are stronger than ISIS, but I am not against giving them limited support

Kurds are getting their ass kicked because ISIS has all the supplies and hardware the Iraqi army abandoned and we have refused to resupply the Kurds. Kurds are outgunned in this one.

[CosmicCowboy]

TWO F-18's??????

pfffft

what a joke.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/iraq-turmoil/airstrikes-begin-u-s-navy-planes-drop-bombs-isis-forces-n175941

[boutons_deux]

America has basically destroyed that country. Pathetic.

... but Saddam was "bad man"

[DarrinS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCZzpmbEcs

[tlongII]

The problem is and always has been that we do things half-assed militarily. We need to be prepared to turn that place into a sheet of glass if we want to get rid of those fuckers. The bleeding heart liberals can't stomach that though.

[boutons_deux]

The bleeding heart liberals can't stomach that though.

the liberals didn't invade Iraq-for-oil, the liberals didn't control the US military in Iraq, the liberals didn't put Bremer in charge (to start the Baghdad stock exchange! :lol ),

the liberals didn't say this:

"You Go To War With The Army You Have---not The Army You Might Want Or Wish To Have At A Later Time. (http://crooksandliars.com/2006/12/15/remebering-rumsfeld-you-go-to-war-with-the-army-you-have-not-the-army-you-might-want-or-wish-to-have-at-a-later-time)"

the liberals didn't sign this:

"Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq"

Obama gets trashed for implementing the REPUG (withdrawal) agreement! :lol

The Iraq fiasco is 1000% a Repug/BigOil fiasco. (for which you right-wing assholes, Repug, Fox blame Obama)

[Cry Havoc]

The problem is and always has been that we do things half-assed militarily. We need to be prepared to turn that place into a sheet of glass if we want to get rid of those fuckers. The bleeding heart liberals can't stomach that though.

Yes. "Kill em all" would definitely solve the problems in the Middle East. :lmao Stay upstairs in the NBA forum, dude.

[ElNono]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we all can also all agree that ISIS is a huge threat to the long term stability of the Middle East and the world. If we continue to stand by and let them exterminate the Kurds it will be a monumental fuckup.

Not here. You couldn't pay me to give a shit about the ME. Cordon it off, and if it spills outside, then go clean up there. As a wise man once said, the ME is fucked and unfuckable. There's nothing there for the US. We even produce more oil now, so that angle doesn't work anymore.

Frankly, if they become a pest outside that area, the US should be prepared to turn the whole place into a giant parking lot, Nagasaki style.

[RandomGuy]

Wow! What a disaster. George W. Bush.... the gift that keeps on giving. Republicans used to always ask "would you rather Saddam still be in power?". At this point, "YES" -- especially if it meant we were never there and didn't burn through trillions of dollars, lose thousands of american military and Iraqi civilian lives, and destabilize the whole region to boot. Things may not have been perfect before, but they are a complete epic shit storm right now; and this after all we sacrificed.

What is happening is perfectly predictable. One word: Yugoslavia.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Question for the liberals...do you guys support Obama bombing Iraq now?

[ElNono]

What is happening is perfectly predictable. One word: Yugoslavia.

In what sense?

[boutons_deux]

Question for the liberals...do you guys support Obama bombing Iraq now?

I'd hit ISIS

[TheSanityAnnex]

I am waiting for Fox news to tell me if I should be mad Obama is bombing Iraq now or if I should be mad Obama didn't bomb Iraq sooner. I will withhold judgement until I have received instructions.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Seriously though, none of this surprises me. Obama's foreign policy has been to poke the hornet's nest and then try and sprinkle in some humanitarian aid to soothe things over. The locals appreciate the aid until they are killed. If he wants to meddle in the Middle East he's going about it all wrong.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Obama needs to be like this....


http://i.imgur.com/Ao0x69l.png

[DMX7]

I'd hit ISIS

this

[spurraider21]

just get. the fuck. out.

[TheSanityAnnex]

just get. the fuck. out.Shouldn't have been there to begin with, BUT since we decided to, we should have stayed. Had we stayed, none of this would be going on. You can't just walk away and declare a war over because you say it's over.

Time to fuck up ISIS, just heard France is joining us from Jordan.

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://news.yahoo.com/jihadists-capture-key-syrian-army-082942692.html

[tlongII]

Yes. "Kill em all" would definitely solve the problems in the Middle East. :lmao Stay upstairs in the NBA forum, dude.

What kind of problems are a bunch of dead people going to cause?

[spurraider21]

Shouldn't have been there to begin with, BUT since we decided to, we should have stayed. Had we stayed, none of this would be going on. You can't just walk away and declare a war over because you say it's over.

Time to fuck up ISIS, just heard France is joining us from Jordan.
i respectfully disagree. because we made a stupid decision years ago, we must follow through with the same stupid decision making?

[TheSanityAnnex]

i respectfully disagree. because we made a stupid decision years ago, we must follow through with the same stupid decision making?It was stupid decision making that has led to the out of control ISIS. Do you think they'd be doing what they are doing if we still had a presence in Iraq? I agree we never should have been there, but we were. And since we were, we should have stayed and cleaned up our mess.

[boutons_deux]

Obama's foreign policy has been to poke the hornet's nest

evidence from Iraq?

We know US/EU got the democratically elected, pro-Russian Pres out which caused the current crisis, but in Iraq?

[boutons_deux]

It was stupid decision making that has led to the out of control ISIS. Do you think they'd be doing what they are doing if we still had a presence in Iraq? I agree we never should have been there, but we were. And since we were, we should have stayed and cleaned up our mess.

How many $100Bs and 1000s more of US and Iraqi lives are you willing to spend on "cleaning up dubya/dickhead/BigOil's mess". How are you certain that the current SECTARIAN sunni/shiite MESS is solvable by further US boots on the ground?

[TheSanityAnnex]

evidence from Iraq?

We know US/EU got the democratically elected, pro-Russian Pres out which caused the current crisis, but in Iraq?
Has is past tense. He's just getting started in Iraq. Look at all the other countries he's poked, how they doing?

[SnakeBoy]

It was stupid decision making that has led to the out of control ISIS. Do you think they'd be doing what they are doing if we still had a presence in Iraq? I agree we never should have been there, but we were. And since we were, we should have stayed and cleaned up our mess.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/losing-iraq/

You can skip the first 2/3's which documents GB's monumental fuck ups since we all know what those were. Then they document how Obama snatched defeat from the jaws of some semblance of victory by pretending Iraq didn't exist. I think valid arguments can be made for having an obligation to intervene and staying completely out of it and letting the region solve their own problems. The trouble with Obama is he can't make up his mind which way to go.

[boutons_deux]

"from the jaws of some semblance of victory"

:lol to whom was there a semblance of victory? :lol

VN, Afghanistan, Iraq, all fucked up and LOST, no victory ever possible.

[RandomGuy]

In what sense?

I will describe a country. You tell me whether I am talking about Yugoslavia or Iraq.

This country's boundaries were drawn by the old European imperial powers around the time of the first world war.
This country's arbitrary boundaries included groups of differing ethnicities and religions that had been killing each other for centuries before it became a country.
After it became a country, it was ruled by a series of totalitarian police states.
After the last strongman was swept away, the groups of people that had been kept from killing each other by secret police and torturers suddenly started killing each other, and the country fragmented.

[DarrinS]

Flashback, lol


http://youtu.be/MKSb2ukQxvY

[xeromass]

Re Iraq - You broke it, you fix it. And then stick O'Reilly's anti-french sticker over your mouth :p:

RandomGuy (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1813) Re Yugoslavia - We joined up all on our own, no imperialist intervention necessary. After WWI we were a bunch of small, mostly new Slavic nation-states with neighbors like Italy, Austria (Germany), Hungary, Bulgaria, remains of Ottoman empire (Turkey) nearby...great company to keep in the 1st half of 20th century and no realistic way of going at it alone. Somebody would annex you quicker than you can say annexation :) After that raison d'etre was gone Yugoslavia disintegrated, unfortunately into a bloody mess. Rest is correct.

[boutons_deux]

"stupid decision making that has led to the out of control ISIS"

which stupid decisions?

Obama implementing the Repug withdrawal was stupid?

So you would prefer US occupying Iraq, 11 years already, indefinitely to maintain the peace?

[pgardn]

... but Saddam was "bad man"

He was, but he had rules.
People understood how to behave, they had institutions.

[FromWayDowntown]

Wow! What a disaster. George W. Bush.... the gift that keeps on giving. Republicans used to always ask "would you rather Saddam still be in power?". At this point, "YES" -- especially if it meant we were never there and didn't burn through trillions of dollars, lose thousands of american military and Iraqi civilian lives, and destabilize the whole region to boot. Things may not have been perfect before, but they are a complete epic shit storm right now; and this after all we sacrificed.

As crazy as it may sound, the current insanity there is certainly some proof of the post-Desert Storm wisdom to not depose Saddam in 1991 out of fear of, among other things, destabilization if the region. Sometimes perhaps dealing the evil you know is better than dealing with an unknown evil.

None of which is to suggest that I ever gave a thought to the idea that Saddam was anything other than an evil despot.

[pgardn]

Question for the liberals...do you guys support Obama bombing Iraq now?

Please list the liberals who have contributed to this thread.

[DarrinS]

As crazy as it may sound, the current insanity there is certainly some proof of the post-Desert Storm wisdom to not depose Saddam in 1991 out of fear of, among other things, destabilization if the region. Sometimes perhaps dealing the evil you know is better than dealing with an unknown evil.

None of which is to suggest that I ever gave a thought to the idea that Saddam was anything other than an evil despot.



Democracy and Islam don't appear to be a good mix.

[pgardn]

Democracy and Islam don't appear to be a good mix.

Indonesia has more Muslims than any other country and is ethnically diverse and democratic. Although things are far from peachy, I'd rather live there than Russia (Orthodox Christian being the majority religion.)

[baseline bum]

As crazy as it may sound, the current insanity there is certainly some proof of the post-Desert Storm wisdom to not depose Saddam in 1991 out of fear of, among other things, destabilization if the region. Sometimes perhaps dealing the evil you know is better than dealing with an unknown evil.

None of which is to suggest that I ever gave a thought to the idea that Saddam was anything other than an evil despot.

Have always liked HW Bush and would vote for him over Hillary, Obama, Romney, etc in a second. Too bad his son was such a fucking moron and drove this country into the shitter.

[DMX7]

Have always liked HW Bush. Too bad his son was such a fucking moron and drove this country into the shitter.

Me too. He wasn't a great president, but he wasn't a tea bagging idiot. He was practical and level headed.

[baseline bum]

Me too. He wasn't a great president, but he wasn't a tea bagging idiot. He was practical and level headed.

Bush 41 was by far the best president since Kennedy.

[cheguevara]

Same exact thing will happen in Lybia.

Obama is the one who deposed Ghadaffi, so the blood will be on his hands.

The only country where they not dare let this happen is Egypt. that is why they have reinstituted the military there in power with help of the Saudi devils and Lord Obama. I guess because of the size of Egypt and proximity to Saudi/Israel they not dare let that country free.

Egypt will never be free ever again. US, Saudi and Israel are terrified of a free Egypt

[pgardn]

Same exact thing will happen in Lybia.

Obama is the one who deposed Ghadaffi, so the blood will be on his hands.

The only country where they not dare let this happen is Egypt. that is why they have reinstituted the military there in power with help of the Saudi devils and Lord Obama. I guess because of the size of Egypt and proximity to Saudi/Israel they not dare let that country free.

Egypt will never be free ever again. US, Saudi and Israel are terrified of a free Egypt

When was Egypt free?

[cheguevara]

When was Egypt free?

Right after the height of the Arab Spring. They had national elections. Unfortunately US/Saudi/Israel saw who won and took control of Egypt right back :lol

[pgardn]

Right after the height of the Arab Spring. They had national elections. Unfortunately US/Saudi/Israel saw who won and took control of Egypt right back :lol

Total BS.

What did we do to oust Morsi and his band of idiots?
He and his group screwed themselves and let Sisi back in.
The Muslim Brotherhood screwed up royally by trying to circumvent parliament and judges.

Sisi is brutal, but he has stabilized things. Pick your poison. We did not want Sisi taking over. But now we have to deal with him because Morsi screwed up so badly.

[ElNono]

I will describe a country. You tell me whether I am talking about Yugoslavia or Iraq.

This country's boundaries were drawn by the old European imperial powers around the time of the first world war.
This country's arbitrary boundaries included groups of differing ethnicities and religions that had been killing each other for centuries before it became a country.
After it became a country, it was ruled by a series of totalitarian police states.
After the last strongman was swept away, the groups of people that had been kept from killing each other by secret police and torturers suddenly started killing each other, and the country fragmented.

That's fine, but Iraq has one more critical condiment what makes it deadly: It's a Religion fueled war. As such, there's heavy involvement from outside actors on both sides.

Which is actually a major reason why this isn't going to get ever resolved unless one side is completely obliterated.

[cheguevara]

Total BS.

What did we do to oust Morsi and his band of idiots?
He and his group screwed themselves and let Sisi back in.
The Muslim Brotherhood screwed up royally by trying to circumvent parliament and judges.

Sisi is brutal, but he has stabilized things. Pick your poison. We did not want Sisi taking over. But now we have to deal with him because Morsi screwed up so badly.

:lmao

The Saudi kings paid 1 billion dollars to have the Egyptian army remove Morsi. Commander-in-Chief of Egyptian armed forces General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi who is also country’s defense minister, received a one billion dollar aid from Saudi Arabia for removing Morsi from power on July 3.

Obviously the US was in on it as they turned a blind eye to the massacres that happened when Morsi was ousted. Egyptian army banned all protests and murdered hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood protesters. They also put pretty much the entire Muslim Brotherhood in jail including the first ever democratically elected president of Egypt, Morsi.

Of course he has stabilized things, martial law and fascism have a way of stabilizing things :lol similar way Pinochet, Saddam did, or Ghadaffi did. The difference is Sisi is a US/Saudi puppet. see the differrence? :rolleyes

[pgardn]

Where did the Arab Spring get Libya, Syria and Iraq?

When large gaps in leadership and institutions are created (even by some very noble ideals), sometimes the most organized groups fill the vacuum. In many of these countries the most organized groups were fundamentalists.

Is this really not fairly obvious?

[cheguevara]

on that note...

Cairo is no longer the capital of Arab hope. It is now the capital of Arab despair. Or so it deserves to be, except that despair does not appear to be the dominant Arab response, and more importantly, the dominant Egyptian response, to the violent destruction of the Egyptian revolution by the Egyptian army. This is the Eighteenth Brumaire of Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. The army has now committed three massacres. Emergency rule has been declared. There are curfews and arbitrary arrests. A puppet civilian government has ratified all the general’s demands. The governance of most of Egypt’s provinces has been given over to the army. Mubarak is almost certainly laughing.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114328/obamas-inaction-egypt-diminishing-americas-power#primary-form

[pgardn]

:lmao

The Saudi kings paid 1 billion dollars to have the Egyptian army remove Morsi. Commander-in-Chief of Egyptian armed forces General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi who is also country’s defense minister, received a one billion dollar aid from Saudi Arabia for removing Morsi from power on July 3.

Obviously the US was in on it as they turned a blind eye to the massacres that happened when Morsi was ousted. Egyptian army banned all protests and murdered hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood protesters. They also put pretty much the entire Muslim Brotherhood in jail including the first ever democratically elected president of Egypt, Morsi.

Of course he has stabilized things, martial law and fascism have a way of stabilizing things :lol similar way Pinochet, Saddam did, or Ghadaffi did. The difference is Sisi is a US/Saudi puppet. see the differrence? :rolleyes

Morsi hired Sisi and put him in place. Sure he will take money when he sees Morsi totally abuse their constitution.
The average Egyptian is damn glad where he is compared to many other places in the Middle East.

Come to your senses.

[pgardn]

on that note...

Cairo is no longer the capital of Arab hope. It is now the capital of Arab despair. Or so it deserves to be, except that despair does not appear to be the dominant Arab response, and more importantly, the dominant Egyptian response, to the violent destruction of the Egyptian revolution by the Egyptian army. This is the Eighteenth Brumaire of Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. The army has now committed three massacres. Emergency rule has been declared. There are curfews and arbitrary arrests. A puppet civilian government has ratified all the general’s demands. The governance of most of Egypt’s provinces has been given over to the army. Mubarak is almost certainly laughing.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114328/obamas-inaction-egypt-diminishing-americas-power#primary-form

Oh, so what is Bengazi called, what about Allepo,Tripoli?

You can't be serious.

Sisi IS NOT a democratic leader. But he has kept order. Right now that is the place to be if you want to LIVE.
You think this is some sort of Euopean Switzerland gone bad? This is chaos and killing. On a large scale. Eygpt has avoided a huge catastrophe. What they got now is not good by Western standards, but that standard is ridiculous to even discuss. This is purely survival!

Get it?

[cheguevara]

Morsi hired Sisi and put him in place. Sure he will take money when he sees Morsi totally abuse their constitution.
The average Egyptian is damn glad where he is compared to many other places in the Middle East.

Come to your senses.

and you are completely missing the point.

the point is US/Saudi/Israel will pick and choose which dictators to support and fund. This is to benefit their own interests. You seriously believe US/Saudi/Israel fund Egypt to the benefit of Egyptians? :lol then it's you who must come to his senses

US has been installing puppets and deposing opponents for decades.

answer me this. If the same chaos would happen if Assad is removed in Syria, howcome US/Saudi still want him removed?? Assad the only thing keeping Syria from being Iraq.

[pgardn]

Where did the Arab Spring get Libya, Syria and Iraq?

When large gaps in leadership and institutions are created (even by some very noble ideals), sometimes the most organized groups fill the vacuum. In many of these countries the most organized groups were fundamentalists.

Is this really not fairly obvious?

And again.

[cheguevara]

as I said above. US/Saudi want Syria's only stabilizing force deposed. Exhibit A of picking and choosing your dictators.

[pgardn]

and you are completely missing the point.

the point is US/Saudi/Israel will pick and choose which dictators to support and fund. This is to benefit their own interests. You seriously believe US/Saudi/Israel fund Egypt to the benefit of Egyptians? :lol then it's you who must come to his senses

US has been installing puppets and deposing opponents for decades.

answer me this. If the same chaos would happen if Assad is removed in Syria, howcome US/Saudi still want him removed?? Assad the only thing keeping Syria from being Iraq.

Which is exactly why we kept our butts out of Syria. That's Europe's baby. We know how bad Assad is/was. The question is always who will fill the vacuum when oppressive leaders are ousted. Eygpt had a military to keep some sort of order. We did not think Syria did, we wanted him gone, but we damn well knew things could get bad just like Iraq. Each situation is a bit different but I will post the following again until it sinks in....

[pgardn]

When large gaps in leadership and institutions are created (even by some very noble ideals), sometimes the most organized groups fill the vacuum. In many of these countries the most organized groups were fundamentalists.

Is this really not fairly obvious?

What is escaping you concerning the above?
Do you see what ISIS is?

[cheguevara]

Which is exactly why we kept our butts out of Syria.

:lol we kept our butts out of Syria because Americans clamored their lawmakers in Congress to stop the madness.

[cheguevara]

What is escaping you concerning the above?
Do you see what ISIS is?

never disagreed with that. To the contrary.

Do you see what Assad is? what Saddam was? what Ghadafi was? US still deposed them.

do you know why? the 3 latter were not US puppets.

[pgardn]

When large gaps in leadership and institutions are created (even by some very noble ideals), sometimes the most organized groups fill the vacuum. In many of these countries the most organized groups were fundamentalists.

Is this really not fairly obvious?

Exactly what do you not understand about my statement above?

[pgardn]

never disagreed with that. To the contrary.

Do you see what Assad is? what Saddam was? what Ghadafi was? US still deposed them.

do you know why? the 3 latter were not US puppets.

What the fck does that matter?
They were ruthless killers THAT KEPT ORDER.

We get that. That's why the first Bush did not over run Baghdad.
So what do you do for Egypt?
What would your first step be?
Do you think this is easy, there is some sort of cookbook?

[Th'Pusher]

I Forgot how much Che's diatribes bored me. For those counting, bored is an emotion. Fuck, this guy is a wildly stupid human being susceptible to the most ridiculous conspiracies. Literally no value added.

[cantthinkofanything]

I Forgot how much Che's diatribes bored me. For those counting, bored is an emotion. Fuck, this guy is a wildly stupid human being susceptible to the most ridiculous conspiracies. Literally no value added.

Che has solid takes. Consistent as my daily poop you faggot. Why do you want to hear about my stools?!?

[pgardn]

Turkey had its own revolts with a very different outcome compared to Egypt, the military kept its distance in Turkey.
They have a relatively mild mannered leader. The US would call him repressive.

Iran has some very repressive ways with a big Western desire. They have a very rich history of progress from the past. Persian Shiites that had their own little problem v. Non sectarians with very diff results.

Then throw in what Shiites have done to Sunnis and vice versa... Can get very messy if these sects have a history of strife in some particular region. Iran and Turkey avoided this component. Egypt did to some degree.

[pgardn]

Che has solid takes. Consistent as my daily poop you faggot. Why do you want to hear about my stools?!?

Solid...
as solid as explosive diarrhea followed by projectile vomiting.

[scanry]

The last time i visited the Middle East, the only radio i heard all day in the car was either about some bombing (in some M East country) or Qatar spending a bomb on the FIFA world cup.

Pretty sad that screening movies are banned in like 90% of the Middle Eastern countries. They literally have no entertainment, so they either shop all weekend or go to Dubai to drink. What they do have however is money and lots of it. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait & Qatar invest public money in Silicon Valley, Automobile Industry & Food Processing.

They however couldn't give shits about Africa & Poverty though. I may be wrong but have those countries ever donated money?

[Jacob1983]

So who has it worse a Christian Iraqi or a Christian Palestinian in Gaza?

[TDMVPDPOY]

The last time i visited the Middle East, the only radio i heard all day in the car was either about some bombing (in some M East country) or Qatar spending a bomb on the FIFA world cup.

Pretty sad that screening movies are banned in like 90% of the Middle Eastern countries. They literally have no entertainment, so they either shop all weekend or go to Dubai to drink. What they do have however is money and lots of it. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait & Qatar invest public money in Silicon Valley, Automobile Industry & Food Processing.

They however couldn't give shits about Africa & Poverty though. I may be wrong but have those countries ever donated money?
yeh they donate to terrorists groups not to bomb their property and assets

[DarrinS]

Give me every single Central American and Mexican illegal before any of those towel heads, tbh.

[cantthinkofanything]

Solid...
as solid as explosive diarrhea followed by projectile vomiting.

As solid as the load in your mom's mouth. SNAP, SHE JUST SWALLOWED YOUR BROTHERS.

[Chomag]

It's so fucked up but that whole region will never make it out of the medieval age it's just the way they are and there will never be world stability with that part of the world always emploding.

"I say we nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" - Ripley

[Th'Pusher]

Che has solid takes. Consistent as my daily poop you faggot. Why do you want to hear about my stools?!?
Che is a fucking moron and if you think his takes are solid, you're a moron too.

[pgardn]

As solid as the load in your mom's mouth. SNAP, SHE JUST SWALLOWED YOUR BROTHERS.


Che is a fucking moron and if you think his takes are solid, you're a moron too.

More of a child.

The load in your mother's mouth...

Seriously (I think to myself yet type it out)?
At least he/she might troll with a little pride.
High on the dismal to paltry scale, approaching pathetic.

[TheSanityAnnex]

This thread should be locked for two weeks and reopened when Obama gets back from Martha's Vineyard.

[boutons_deux]

The U.S. Airstrikes in Northern Iraq Are All About Oil

What Obama left unsaid was that Erbil, a city of 1.5 million, is the capital of the Kurdish regional government and theadministrative center (http://www.cwckiog.com/) of its oil industry, which accounts for about a quarter of Iraq’s oil. The Kurds claim that if they were to become an independent state, they would have the ninth-largest oil reserves in the world. And oil wells are near Erbil.If the Islamic State were to take over Erbil, they would endanger Iraq’s oil production and, by extension, global access to oil. Prices would surge at a time when Europe, which buys oil from Iraq, has still not escaped the global recession.

Oil prices have already risen in response to the Islamic State’s threat to Erbil, and on Thursday, American oil companies Chevron and Exxon Mobile began evacuating (http://online.wsj.com/articles/oil-companies-evacuate-staff-from-iraqi-kurdistan-1407512928) their personnel from Kurdistan. But oil traders are predicting that American intervention could halt the rise.

“In essence we find U.S. air strikes more bearish than bullish for oil as the act finally draws a line for IS and reinforces both the stability in south Iraq and in Kurdistan,”

If the Obama administration wanted to prevent the world’s peoples from brutal dictators and repressive regimes or from takeovers by terrorist groups, there are other countries besides Libya and Iraq where it could intervene. What distinguishes these two countries is that they are major oil producers.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119035/us-attack-islamic-militants-all-about-iraqs-oil

[pgardn]

No its not about oil, ask the Shiites:

Mr. Askari accused the Obama administration of being interested only in “protecting the Kurdish regional government and Christians, not the rest of Iraq.”

“Iraqis must rely on themselves and their genuine friends, like Iran and Russia, who have supported Iraq in its battle against ISIS,” he said. Russia has sent Sukhoi aircraft to the Iraqi forces, and Iran has trained and financed militia forces and sent advisers.

NY times


This is just fantastic. Once ISIS has slowed down and the Shiites gain more arms, we can have a 3 way like the Serbs, Croatians, and Bosnians.

And the "help" from Iraq's real friends has really been effective so far... ISIS ran through Russian supplied Iraq like it was deserted land.

[boutons_deux]

No its not about oil, ask the Shiites:

Mr. Askari accused the Obama administration of being interested only in “protecting the Kurdish regional government and Christians, not the rest of Iraq.”

“Iraqis must rely on themselves and their genuine friends, like Iran and Russia, who have supported Iraq in its battle against ISIS,” he said. Russia has sent Sukhoi aircraft to the Iraqi forces, and Iran has trained and financed militia forces and sent advisers.

NY times


This is just fantastic. Once ISIS has slowed down and the Shiites gain more arms, we can have a 3 way like the Serbs, Croatians, and Bosnians.

And the "help" from Iraq's real friends has really been effective so far... ISIS ran through Russian supplied Iraq like it was deserted land.

Oil is ALWAYS a huge, and nearly always PRIMARY factor in the M/E for all non-M/E countries, esp UK and US.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/in-challenge-to-iraq-kurds-pin-future-on-stealth-oil-sales-1405996352

http://online.wsj.com/articles/oil-companies-evacuate-staff-from-iraqi-kurdistan-1407512928

First Kurdistan Oil Export Is Welcome News for U.S. Oil Companies

http://247wallst.com/energy-business/2014/05/23/first-kurdistan-oil-export-is-welcome-news-for-u-s-oil-companies/

[pgardn]

Oil is ALWAYS a huge, and nearly always PRIMARY factor in the M/E for all non-M/E countries, esp UK and US.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/in-challenge-to-iraq-kurds-pin-future-on-stealth-oil-sales-1405996352

http://online.wsj.com/articles/oil-companies-evacuate-staff-from-iraqi-kurdistan-1407512928

First Kurdistan Oil Export Is Welcome News for U.S. Oil Companies

http://247wallst.com/energy-business/2014/05/23/first-kurdistan-oil-export-is-welcome-news-for-u-s-oil-companies/




Grain of sand on South Padre.


The fracking you hate so much, take a drive to Corpus Christi along 37 and give me a comparison. It's not just natural gas that comes out of those wells it's oil.

[ElNono]

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2012/12/thanks_obama-16196.gif

[DarrinS]

We produce more oil than any other country, botox

[tlongII]

We produce more oil than any other country, botox

Boo's gotta shift his focus now.

[boutons_deux]

We produce more oil than any other country, botox

and our fuel prices are WAY DOWN! :lol

[DarrinS]

Boo's gotta shift his focus now.


and our fuel prices are WAY DOWN! :lol


Like clockwork

[boutons_deux]

Like clockwork

so M/E oil price, supply to USA ISN'T why the Repugs invaded Iraq, isn't why USA has occupied Saudi Arabia for 20 years. isn't why US/EU got involved in oil/gas-rich Libya revolution?

USA is bombing ISIS to protect the large number US oil people in the Kurdish region.

And what does "We produce more oil than any other country" have to do with the thread?

You telling us Drill Here, Drill Now has made USA independent of world oil supply, prices? :lol

[pgardn]

so M/E oil price, supply to USA ISN'T why the Repugs invaded Iraq, isn't why USA has occupied Saudi Arabia for 20 years. isn't why US/EU got involved in oil/gas-rich Libya revolution?

USA is bombing ISIS to protect the large number US oil people in the Kurdish region.

And what does "We produce more oil than any other country" have to do with the thread?

You telling us Drill Here, Drill Now has made USA independent of world oil supply, prices? :lol

So if they were American Doctors Without Borders we would hang them out to dry?


Of course Americans are helping Kurds with oil, we know more about extracting and processing oil far better than any other country. We have a huge number of people that know oil.
Who are you going to call to maintain your oil fields or boost production, Russians?
We are the EXPERTS. We have independent oil people all over the world giving advice because THEY KNOW the job.

[boutons_deux]

Of course Americans are helping Kurds with oil, we know more about extracting and processing oil far better than any other country. We have a huge number of people that know oil.


critical thinker butthurt pgardn KNOWING USA is helping Kurds for ANY REASON other than to make a buck. :lol

Oil companies are charities, humanitarians selflessly helping Kurds suck oil? :lol

I nominate the US Oil Sector for the Nobel Peace Prize!

[pgardn]

critical thinker butthurt pgardn KNOWING USA is helping Kurds for ANY REASON other than to make a buck. :lol

Oil companies are charities, humanitarians selflessly helping Kurds suck oil? :lol

I nominate the US Oil Sector for the Nobel Peace Prize!

I have a brother in law who independently advises on boosting oil production in foreign countries. Thought he was CIA.
He is hired by foreign oil to advise. You don't think this exists and is lucrative. Willing to go abroad while oil is booming here? He is in Fkn demand. Get it? It's that World Market stuff you hate. There are many people in the US that go abroad for jobs because other countries lack experts in so many areas, and it pays huge.

[boutons_deux]

US pre-emptive defense of US oil-companies working!

20,000 Yazidi Iraqis targeted by ISIS escape from mountain after US air strikes

At least 20,000 Iraqi civilians who were besieged by jihadists on a mountain (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat) have managed to flee after US air raids on Islamic State (Isis) forces, officials have said.

Shawkat Barbahari, an official from the autonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq, said 30,000 people had escaped to Syria and then been escorted back into Iraqi Kurdistan by Kurdish forces. A spokesman for the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UNOCHA) in Iraq said officials had been reporting to the UN that 15,000 to 20,000 people had escaped the siege. Fears had been growing for the civilians, mostly Kurds of the Yazidi faith, trapped on Mount Sinjar in north-west Iraq in the searing summer heat with little to eat or drink.

The breakthrough coincided with US air raids on Isis fighters in the Sinjar area on Saturday.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/10/20000-yazidi-iraqis-targeted-by-isis-escape-from-mountain-after-us-air-strikes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[pgardn]

US pre-emptive defense of US oil-companies working!

20,000 Yazidi Iraqis targeted by ISIS escape from mountain after US air strikes

At least 20,000 Iraqi civilians who were besieged by jihadists on a mountain (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat) have managed to flee after US air raids on Islamic State (Isis) forces, officials have said.

Shawkat Barbahari, an official from the autonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq, said 30,000 people had escaped to Syria and then been escorted back into Iraqi Kurdistan by Kurdish forces. A spokesman for the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UNOCHA) in Iraq said officials had been reporting to the UN that 15,000 to 20,000 people had escaped the siege. Fears had been growing for the civilians, mostly Kurds of the Yazidi faith, trapped on Mount Sinjar in north-west Iraq in the searing summer heat with little to eat or drink.

The breakthrough coincided with US air raids on Isis fighters in the Sinjar area on Saturday.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/10/20000-yazidi-iraqis-targeted-by-isis-escape-from-mountain-after-us-air-strikes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29




What are we doing wasting bombs just to save people trapped on a mountain.
I mean this country sucks, we don't really care, right?


You watch when things are not as strikingly successful.
We will be asked what the hell are we doing.
Oh yeah, where are the Euro forces?
Where are the Chinese? Russians?

Oh sorry, I forgot, the British just dropped some water for the trapped group.
Thanks for the help.

[mercos]

It almost appears as if the strategy since 9/11 has been to destabilize the Middle East and keep them fighting themselves rather than attack us. We always seem to apply half measures wherever we go (Iraq, Libya, Syria) and leave the problem to fester. While the idea is repulsive on a humanitarian level, it has arguably been fairly successful and kept the extremist groups busy and away from us.

[pgardn]

It almost appears as if the strategy since 9/11 has been to destabilize the Middle East and keep them fighting themselves rather than attack us. We always seem to apply half measures wherever we go (Iraq, Libya, Syria) and leave the problem to fester. While the idea is repulsive on a humanitarian level, it has arguably been fairly successful and kept the extremist groups busy and away from us.

Very Valid point.
Although they are really a bigger problem for the Euros.
And the Russians, long term. Proximity of large Islamic countries.

It is rather ironic US citizens have actually joined the Islamic State army, few as they may be.

[boutons_deux]

Even this evil fraud of a bitch finally figured out her side is fucked, and fucked up badly
Laura Ingraham’s epiphany: “Iraq is worse than before we went in”The hard-right pundit reluctantly grants that the U.S. invasion in 2003 did Iraq more harm than good
Already flirting with danger by offering a qualified defense of the president, Ingraham next completely broke ranks from her fellow Republicans and implicitly rejected the popular conservative talking point that the Iraq war was “won” before Obama “lost” it by withdrawing U.S. troops from the country too soon.

“We tried to do all these things in Iraq, now Iraq is worse off!” Ingraham said, with obvious exasperation. “I mean, I hate to say that, but Iraq is worse than before we went in to Iraq. Christians are gone, there’s no sense of order at all. Saddam Hussein is gone. That’s a good thing, but what’s left? A more embolden Islamic state.”

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/10/laura_ingrahams_epiphany_iraq_is_worse_than_before _we_went_in/

:lol

All y'all rednecks, bubbas, tea baggers, Bible-thumpers, Repugnants, again pile up a rat turd pile all your self-deluding fantasies that you "think" are Repug positive contributions to America over the last 40 years, and they would overwhelmed by Repug misgovernance, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, etc.

[spurraider21]

:lol

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/10470946_914050628866_1341491553109215872_o.jpg


Obama: Pulling All U.S. Troops Out of Iraq Was Not ‘My Decision'http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/obama-pulling-all-us-troops-out-iraq-was-not-my-decision

[Venti Quattro]

Not even nuking the entire country can solve the deep-rooted problems of Iraq. It's a lost cause and it's people are petulant and prideful. Simple values

[cheguevara]

Very Valid point.
Although they are really a bigger problem for the Euros.
And the Russians, long term. Proximity of large Islamic countries.

It is rather ironic US citizens have actually joined the Islamic State army, few as they may be.

this is not a new strategy. It was been employed by Colonial Britain centuries ago. It was Britain who originally carved up the Middle East like a birthday cake in order to weaken the Arab/Persian worlds and turn the tribes against each other.

The US is just following in their daddy's footsteps tbh. wrecking havock wherever they go. Actually US is a lot more brutal and violent than the British Empire IMO. British actually brought many civilized features to these "savage" countries. US brought nothing but tears and chaos.

[pgardn]

this is not a new strategy. It was been employed by Colonial Britain centuries ago. It was Britain who originally carved up the Middle East like a birthday cake in order to weaken the Arab/Persian worlds and turn the tribes against each other.

The US is just following in their daddy's footsteps tbh. wrecking havock wherever they go. Actually US is a lot more brutal and violent than the British Empire IMO. British actually brought many civilized features to these "savage" countries. US brought nothing but tears and chaos.

Who who said it was?


Yes we have screwed up.
Yes we will screw up again.

Moving on...

Let me know next time Russia tries to take on the AIDS epidemic in Africa, or the Chinese are responsible for tracking Ebola. Do that, will ya?

[boutons_deux]

Obama: Pulling All U.S. Troops Out of Iraq Was Not ‘My Decision'

http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/obama-pulling-all-us-troops-out-iraq-was-not-my-decision

Obama implemented the REPUG withdrawal agreement.

He could not get an extension to the American occupation of Iraq-for-oil, and like the Repugs, he refused to withdraw immunity for American military criminals and American murderous mercenaries. So he implemented the REPUG withdrawal plan.

[Winehole23]

The Obama administration has begun directly providing weapons to Kurdish forces who have started to make gains against Islamic militants in northern Iraq (http://www.cnbc.com/id/10000298), senior U.S. officials said Monday.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101910319

[Jacob1983]

I thought Obama was against the war in Iraq? Oh wait,that was candidate Obama.

[pgardn]

I thought Obama was against the war in Iraq? Oh wait,that was candidate Obama.

So Obama is going to hunt down those WMD's?
He thinks he's found em...

[ElNono]

The Obama administration has begun directly providing weapons to Kurdish forces who have started to make gains against Islamic militants in northern Iraq, senior U.S. officials said Monday.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101910319

Fast & Furious 8, tbh

[boutons_deux]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101910319

Kurds will eventually use those weapons and ammo to kick Iraqis out, and keep them out, of the Kurdish region, to establish a Kurdish state, control "their" oil.

The Kurds will give their lives for that, but Iraqis, after $100Bs of US investment, training, weapons over 10+ years, won't fight for Iraq.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Kurds will eventually use those weapons and ammo to kick Iraqis out, and keep them out, of the Kurdish region, to establish a Kurdish state, control "their" oil.

The Kurds will give their lives for that, but Iraqis, after $100Bs of US investment, training, weapons over 10+ years, won't fight for Iraq.All the guys I know that fought in Iraq said the Kurds are good people and about the only people there that really don't hate us and were in fact happy to have us there. We abandoned the Kurds before, got to help them now. Problem is once they fend of ISIS do they use these weapons and go after Turkey? :lol The Middle East is so fucked, should have never meddled and continued on meddling. We will just have to keep arming the next "good guys" only to arm the following good guy group to take care of the out of control previous good guy group.

[Winehole23]

Fast & Furious 8, tbhfour consecutive US Presidents have attacked Iraq; the commitment of US strategic force is ongoing.

[cheguevara]

All the guys I know that fought in Iraq said the Kurds are good people and about the only people there that really don't hate us and were in fact happy to have us there.

that's what Americans said of Osama Bin Laden and his peeps when they were helping them to fight Russia in Afghanistan :lol

Osama was even invited to US military bases as guest of honor :lol

[cheguevara]

Btw lets not forget just a few months ago US was going to be the ISIS's air force.

Lets not forget it was Russia who was sounding the alarms about the Islamic Militants. Meanwhile most in US government were ready to arm and fight next to the ISIS. Shit they armed and funded them for months.

lets not forget ISIS had already massacred thkusands of Kurd women and children in Syria while the US was funding and arming them.

lets not forget the truth

[cheguevara]

Obama and Kerry are possibly as stupid as W Jr and Rummy. Its really close.

Obama and Kerry need to send Putin and Lavrov thank you presents for saving their legacies and country tbh. Can u imagine if US had gone to war for ISIS and Assad was toppled??? Shit would make W's Iraq war blunder a minor mistake :lmao



Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters"??????

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[ElNono]

So the US is back to distributing weapons, seeding the next war, which keeps the MIC rolling... sounds like business as usual to me, tbh...

[ezau]

http://i.imgur.com/fHcFBkc.jpg

Displaced Iraqis walking to the Syrian border.

[Wild Cobra]

Obama and Kerry are possibly as stupid as W Jr and Rummy. Its really close.

Obama and Kerry need to send Putin and Lavrov thank you presents for saving their legacies and country tbh. Can u imagine if US had gone to war for ISIS and Assad was toppled??? Shit would make W's Iraq war blunder a minor mistake :lmao



Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters"??????

:lmao :lmao :lmao
Oh...

There is no comparison. Kerry and Obama are so much more stupid.

[SnakeBoy]

http://i.imgur.com/fHcFBkc.jpg

Displaced Iraqis walking to the Syrian border.

Damn even the sheep are getting out of that shithole.

[boutons_deux]

Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters"?????

Remember when St Ronnie was allied with and supplying Saddam, and Rummy was photographed in Iraq shaking Saddam's hand?

[RandomGuy]

This country's arbitrary boundaries included groups of differing ethnicities and religions that had been killing each other for centuries before it became a country.



That's fine, but Iraq has one more critical condiment what makes it deadly: It's a Religion fueled war. As such, there's heavy involvement from outside actors on both sides.

Which is actually a major reason why this isn't going to get ever resolved unless one side is completely obliterated.

I did note religions in my description.

Figure it out yet?

I was talking about Yugoslavia, of course. You may not be old enough to remember the Christian on Muslim violence, and vice-versa. That is what I meant by Iraq's arc in the last decade being entirely predictable, and why the Bush administration was fucking stupid for not recognizing it.

Yugoslavia's war got resolved when everybody got their own freakin country.

Iraq is on track to do the same thing. Shia, Sunni, Kurd.

Given that we are also on track to build the Peshmurga into a de facto standing army, that adds to the momentum.

[RandomGuy]

Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters"??????



Link?

[RandomGuy]

Obama and Kerry are possibly as stupid as W Jr and Rummy. Its really close.

Obama and Kerry need to send Putin and Lavrov thank you presents for saving their legacies and country tbh. Can u imagine if US had gone to war for ISIS and Assad was toppled??? Shit would make W's Iraq war blunder a minor mistake :lmao



Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters"??????

:lmao :lmao :lmao

You do realize that Kerry is not the secretary of defense, right?

Or maybe you didn't realize that Rumsfeld was not the secretary of state?

Which was it?

[RandomGuy]

this is not a new strategy. It was been employed by Colonial Britain centuries ago. It was Britain who originally carved up the Middle East like a birthday cake in order to weaken the Arab/Persian worlds and turn the tribes against each other.

The US is just following in their daddy's footsteps tbh. wrecking havock wherever they go. Actually US is a lot more brutal and violent than the British Empire IMO. British actually brought many civilized features to these "savage" countries. US brought nothing but tears and chaos.

You haven't read about the concentration camps the british ran in africa, then.


Kinda hard to point to that as being "better" than what the US did or does.

Unless, of course, you like to talk out of your ass about things. Then, by all means, compare away. Don't let things like facts stop your confirmation bias fueled rants.

Not that I am a huge supporter of the shitty things the US does. I just don't view it as some uber-conspiracy, as I have little evidence of such a thing.

Feel free to present any evidence that the US policy is directly aimed at setting Arab countries at each other in some machiavellian plot. That would be fun to watch you try to justify.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Btw lets not forget just a few months ago US was going to be the ISIS's air force.

Lets not forget it was Russia who was sounding the alarms about the Islamic Militants. Meanwhile most in US government were ready to arm and fight next to the ISIS. Shit they armed and funded them for months.

lets not forget ISIS had already massacred thkusands of Kurd women and children in Syria while the US was funding and arming them.

lets not forget the truth


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/10/isis-syria-iraq-barack-obama-airstrikes


President Obama authorised targeted air strikes against the Islamic State's positions to stop its fighters from advancing further towards the Iraqi Kurdish region and to help avert an act of genocide against a religious minority the group considers devil-worshippers, the Yezidis.
The move, uncharacteristic of intervention-averse Obama, highlights how the jihadist group has expanded and become an unstoppable force, six months after it seemed it would not even complete a year in existence, when major rebel factions in Syria (http://www.theguardian.com/world/syria) declared war against it earlier this year.
The group, which became known as the Islamic State of Iraq (http://www.theguardian.com/world/iraq) and Syria (Isis (http://www.theguardian.com/world/isis)) after it broke away from the al-Qaida-affiliated Jabhat al-Nusra in April last year, had been driven out of most of Syria, and rebel factions and al-Qaida affiliates threatened to chase it out of Iraq. But the group has made a remarkable comeback, seizing stretches of at least seven provinces in the two countries, and marching steadily into other areas.
In the last two weeks alone, Isis has fought on five fronts: against the Iraqi army, the Kurdish peshmerga, the Syrian regime, the Syrian opposition and the Lebanese army. In Syria the group has all but consolidated control of the eastern provinces of Raqqa and Deir Ezzor, as it made advances against government forces in Raqqa and subdued most of the rebel forces in Deir Ezzor. It is also advancing into Aleppo, reaching the city's eastern outskirts, and in Hasaka, and is battling the Kurdish militias in the north-east. In Iraq it has advanced to a point only half an hour's drive from Irbil, the Kurdish capital.
Yet these advances appear to be only the tip of the iceberg. Away from the publicised gains, Isis is quietly making progress on other fronts. Perhaps the most worrying is the fact that armed groups backed by the US have been co-opted by Isis.
After its sweeping military success in Iraq in June, Isis moved to take over the strategic province in Deir Ezzor, where the rebels controlled lucrative oil and gas resources. To the surprise of many, the group quickly controlled towns and villages that were home to some of the group's most powerful adversaries, including Jabhat al-Nusra and locally rooted tribal militias.
According to Samer al-Ani, an opposition media activist from Deir Ezzor, several fighting groups affiliated to the western-backed Military Council worked discreetly with Isis, even before the group's latest offensive. Liwa al-Ansar and Liwa Jund al-Aziz, he said, pledged allegiance to Isis in secret, with reports that Isis is using them to put down a revolt by the Sha'itat tribe near the Iraqi border.
He warned that money being sent through members of the National Coalition to rebels in Deir Ezzor risks going to Isis. Another source from Deir Ezzor said that these groups pledged loyalty to Isis four months ago, so this was not forced as a result of Isis's latest push, as happened elsewhere. Such collaboration was key to the takeover of Deir Ezzor in recent weeks, especially in areas where Isis could not defeat the local forces so easily.
This is not the first, or the only, time in which groups affiliated to the military structures backed by the US and the Gulf states have worked with Isis. Saddam al-Jamal, a top commander for the Free Syrian Army's eastern front, pledged allegiance to Isis in November and fought in its ranks, wreaking a grisly carnage in his hometown of Abu Kamal in April. Other groups affiliated to the western-backed military councils that have pledged allegiance to Isis include Liwa Fajr al-Islam in Homs.
Moderate religious groups that had been established mostly to fight jihadists are now working closely, if quietly, with Isis. Liwa Ahl al-Athar, for example, has discreetly pledged allegiance to Isis. The Salafi-leaning rebel alliance, which has a strong presence in many areas in Deir Ezzor and beyond, is financially backed by private donors from the Arab Gulf states, but is said to be in the "good guys" list by governments that back the Syrian opposition.
A provincial leader of the alliance in Abu Kamal, according to an influential opposition figure in the area, is related to an Iraqi emir of Isis and has worked with the jihadist group to mediate a truce with the Sha'itat tribe. According to the same source, other rebel groups have often travelled to the Iraqi border town of Husaiba to win support from Isis for leadership in their areas.
Moreover, Isis has followed new strategies during its latest offensive, in Iraq and Syria, to establish long-term presence in the areas it controls. Such strategies include greater leeway for local forces to run their daily state of affairs, instead of the old strategy of directly managing these areas. In areas where it still fears an uprising, the group maintains direct control. Isis is also planning to recruit foreign jihadists within the ranks of groups co-opted by it to ensure their loyalty.
Even in Deraa, where Jabhat al-Nusra has steadily consolidated its presence, sources say that Isis has supporters close to the top leadership of the al-Qaida affiliate and there are clans willing to declare allegiance to Isis. Increasingly, Isis is becoming more sophisticated and resilient. Contrary to speculations that the group is overreaching itself, Isis gains the loyalty of more forces every time it controls a new area. It is expected that if the group makes headway into Aleppo, members of like-minded jihadi factions such as Ahrar al-Sham will defect and join its ranks.
Beyond its advertised victories, Isis is building a vast network of supporters even within moderate ranks that could help it persist in the face of a military action similar to this weekend's American air strikes.
Time appears to be on its side, and unless there is a comprehensive political and military approach to fight it in both Iraq and Syria the group is here to stay.

[Th'Pusher]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/10/isis-syria-iraq-barack-obama-airstrikes


President Obama authorised targeted air strikes against the Islamic State's positions to stop its fighters from advancing further towards the Iraqi Kurdish region and to help avert an act of genocide against a religious minority the group considers devil-worshippers, the Yezidis.
Typical. The intervention-averse Obama could care less about genocide against Christians and shites, but send in the troops as soon as the start slaughtering they devil-worshipers.

[ElNono]

I was talking about Yugoslavia, of course. You may not be old enough to remember the Christian on Muslim violence, and vice-versa. That is what I meant by Iraq's arc in the last decade being entirely predictable, and why the Bush administration was fucking stupid for not recognizing it.

:lol I bet I'm older than you. I'm also 100% in agreement, there was no fixing anything in that region. You just don't walk in a region like that and tell them how it's going to be. You either wipe them all out and start again, or just don't go.

[boutons_deux]

:lol I bet I'm older than you. I'm also 100% in agreement, there was no fixing anything in that region. You just don't walk in a region like that and tell them how it's going to be. You either wipe them all out and start again, or just don't go.

well, I thought it was wonderful how the Iraqi's immediately appreciated Bremer's Baghdad stock exchange.

[RandomGuy]

:lol I bet I'm older than you. I'm also 100% in agreement, there was no fixing anything in that region. You just don't walk in a region like that and tell them how it's going to be. You either wipe them all out and start again, or just don't go.

I'm 43. And I would agree. If they can't fix their own shit, it ain't gonna happen.

[ElNono]

I'm 43. And I would agree. If they can't fix their own shit, it ain't gonna happen.

You have me beat by a mere couple years... :toast

[RandomGuy]

You have me beat by a mere couple years... :toast

Well if you ever get to San Antonio, you can pay up on that bet and buy me a beer.

Keep trying to get Agloco to meet me for a beer again, but being busy... it ain't easy.

[cheguevara]

bullshit. The Ottoman Empire was a good solid empire with no more internal violence than Europe. the Arabs and other tribes lived happily and relatively peacefully under the Ottoman Empire for over 400 years.

And before that there was the Persian Empire. A beautiful empire that had lots of culture and technology.

This myth that these lands were always warring against each other is one of the biggest lies in history.

Oil was discovered in the area and with Ottomans siding with Germany in WWI, it made the western empires to wreak havoc, break up the Ottoman Empire and untimately divide it like I said before, like a birthday cake. Not to mention they added a small country in the middle called Israel. Since then as I said the Western empires have been benefiting from keeping these people warring against each other.

[DarrinS]

Yes, I'm sure the Ottoman and Persian empires were paradise.

Anyway, back to current times


http://youtu.be/sIiraaQCfvY

[TeyshaBlue]

You have me beat by a mere couple years... :toast

Fucking punks.

[ElNono]

Well if you ever get to San Antonio, you can pay up on that bet and buy me a beer.

Keep trying to get Agloco to meet me for a beer again, but being busy... it ain't easy.

I visit family at the RGV often... sometimes we make the drive up to San Antonio... it's normally just for a day, but I'll let you know if we're not in a hurry...

[cheguevara]

bullshit. The Ottoman Empire was a good solid empire with no more internal violence than Europe. the Arabs and other tribes lived happily and relatively peacefully under the Ottoman Empire for over 400 years.

And before that there was the Persian Empire. A beautiful empire that had lots of culture and technology.

This myth that these lands were always warring against each other is one of the biggest lies in history.

Oil was discovered in the area and with Ottomans siding with Germany in WWI, it made the western empires to wreak havoc, break up the Ottoman Empire and untimately divide it like I said before, like a birthday cake. Not to mention they added a small country in the middle called Israel. Since then as I said the Western empires have been benefiting from keeping these people warring against each other.

The plans for reconfiguring the Middle East started several years before the First World War. It was during the First World War, however, that the manifestation of these colonial designs could visibly be seen with the “Great Arab Revolt” against the Ottoman Empire.

Despite the fact that the British, French, and Italians were colonial powers which had prevented the Arabs from enjoying any freedom in countries like Algeria, Libya, Egypt, and Sudan, these colonial powers managed to portray themselves as the friends and allies of Arab liberation.

During the “Great Arab Revolt” the British and the French actually used the Arabs as foot soldiers against the Ottomans to further their own geo-political schemes. The secret Sykes–Picot Agreement between London and Paris is a case in point. France and Britain merely managed to use and manipulate the Arabs by selling them the idea of Arab liberation from the so-called “repression” of the Ottomans.

In reality, the Ottoman Empire was a multi-ethnic empire. It gave local and cultural autonomy to all its peoples, but was manipulated into the direction of becoming a Turkish entity. Even the Armenian Genocide that would ensue in Ottoman Anatolia has to be analyzed in the same context as the contemporary targeting of Christians in Iraq as part of a sectarian scheme unleashed by external actors to divide the Ottoman Empire, Anatolia, and the citizens of the Ottoman Empire.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, it was London and Paris which denied freedom to the Arabs, while sowing the seeds of discord amongst the Arab peoples. Local corrupt Arab leaders were also partners in the project and many of them were all too happy to become clients of Britain and France. In the same sense, the “Arab Spring” is being manipulated today. The U.S., Britain, France, and others are now working with the help of corrupt Arab leaders and figures to restructure the Arab World and Africa.

[cheguevara]

The Yinon Plan, which is a continuation of British stratagem in the Middle East, is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states.

Israeli strategists viewed Iraq as their biggest strategic challenge from an Arab state. This is why Iraq was outlined as the centerpiece to the balkanization of the Middle East and the Arab World. In Iraq, on the basis of the concepts of the Yinon Plan, Israeli strategists have called for the division of Iraq into a Kurdish state and two Arab states, one for Shiite Muslims and the other for Sunni Muslims. The first step towards establishing this was a war between Iraq and Iran, which the Yinon Plan discusses.

[cheguevara]

Today, the imperialist designs of the United States, Britain, France, and Germany have not changed. What has changed is the pretext and justification for waging their neo-colonial wars of conquest. During the colonial period, the narratives and justifications for waging war were accepted by public opinion in the colonizing countries, such as Britain and France. Today’s “just wars” and “just causes” are now being conducted under the banners of women’s rights, human rights, humanitarianism, and democracy.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/preparing-the-chessboard-for-the-clash-of-civilizations-divide-conquer-and-rule-the-new-middle-east/27786

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A few days ago you were characterizing as not going along with the rest of NATO. Now you have shit characterizing them as having the same brain.

Cognitive dissonance or ignorance or both?

[RandomGuy]

Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters"??????




Link?


bullshit. The Ottoman Empire was a good solid empire with no more internal violence than Europe. the Arabs and other tribes lived happily and relatively peacefully under the Ottoman Empire for over 400 years.
[blathering about oil redacted].

So, you said this, but don't have any evidence for it, is that correct?

[velik_m]

Well, Maliki is backing out, so the US plan worked. Now they just have to put the genie back in the lamp.

[cheguevara]

So, you said this, but don't have any evidence for it, is that correct?

Obama and Kerry were selling the bombing of Syria as helping the freedom fighters vs Assad's dictatorship. They were selling their bullshit to anyone who would listen :lol You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Stop playing dumb :rolleyes

Read history on the Ottoman Empire and you will see it was a magnificent empire. Read history books is all I can say, can't help you much more than that. Good luck. :tu

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Obama and Kerry were selling the bombing of Syria as helping the freedom fighters vs Assad's dictatorship. They were selling their bullshit to anyone who would listen :lol You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Stop playing dumb :rolleyes

Read history on the Ottoman Empire and you will see it was a magnificent empire. Read history books is all I can say, can't help you much more than that. Good luck. :tu

I know that you insist on dumbing down what was and is clearly multiple factions into a singular.

Oh and btw fun fact: the Ottomans were still slaving in 1917. From a technology standpoint, the Arabs were ahead of the Europeans up until the renaissance. Their guns were what took down the walls of Constantinople. Hungary and Kiev getting raped by Genghis didn't help. After that though, rationalism in Europe started to pull ahead and by the 19th century they were buying their shit from Europe.

You really like glamorizing every civilization but your own. You that bored that you get your attention this way or you really think its valid? Either way it doesn't put you in the most glamorous light.

[hater]

yeah it is

[boutons_deux]

"Obama and Kerry were selling the bombing of Syria as helping the freedom fighters vs Assad's dictatorship"

Initially, at least in the press, it was legit Syrian people fighting Assad, but later AQ, etc started fighting Assad, too. complicated, factions.

That was probably the main reason very little help from the West to those fighting Assad.

[pgardn]

Refresher


... but Saddam was "bad man"

[pgardn]

He was, but he had rules.
People understood how to behave, they had institutions.

[pgardn]

When large gaps in leadership and institutions are created (even by some very noble ideals), sometimes the most organized groups fill the vacuum. In many of these countries the most organized groups were fundamentalists.

Is this really not fairly obvious?

[pgardn]

We have learned harsh dictators are sometimes a better option than the alternative, chaos.
Again, note big Bush stopping short of Baghdad after the most incredible military wipe out in military history, Desert Storm. This historic military devastation made us very cocky imo.

We are still learning how complex this stuff is.
There have been very different outcomes in different regions.
Iraq, we totally ruined it. We caused more misery than there was to begin with.

[Winehole23]

Maliki resigns: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/15/the-84-year-old-islamic-cleric-shaking-up-iraqs-political-world/

[pgardn]

Maliki resigns: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/15/the-84-year-old-islamic-cleric-shaking-up-iraqs-political-world/

Possibly a + development.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Maliki resigns: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/15/the-84-year-old-islamic-cleric-shaking-up-iraqs-political-world/

He was outted by Iraw's top shiite cleric a week ago and everyone had moved on from him but at lest he finally saw the light.

[RandomGuy]

Obama and Kerry were selling the bombing of Syria as helping the freedom fighters vs Assad's dictatorship. They were selling their bullshit to anyone who would listen :lol You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Stop playing dumb :rolleyes

Read history on the Ottoman Empire and you will see it was a magnificent empire. Read history books is all I can say, can't help you much more than that. Good luck. :tu

As far as I am aware, Obama was not a leader in the Ottoman Empire, so pardon my confusion about why it is relevant.

You still don't have any quotes of Obama or Kerry referring to ISIS as freedom fighters, so I will have to assume there aren't any.

If your worldview is based on assumptions that can be shown to be incorrect, shouldn't that cause you to rethink conclusions based on them?

[cheguevara]

As far as I am aware, Obama was not a leader in the Ottoman Empire, so pardon my confusion about why it is relevant.

You still don't have any quotes of Obama or Kerry referring to ISIS as freedom fighters, so I will have to assume there aren't any.

If your worldview is based on assumptions that can be shown to be incorrect, shouldn't that cause you to rethink conclusions based on them?

Kerry and Obama were selling the Syria war for the US to fight alongside the extremists. Its already in the history books.

if you think a fact like that is assumption then you probably should rethink your point of view after getting more informed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Kerry and Obama were selling the Syria war for the US to fight alongside the extremists. Its already in the history books.

if you think a fact like that is assumption then you probably should rethink your point of view after getting more informed.

We didn't arm the Syrians. That is turning out to be the right choice but I cannot speak for the saudi royal family or any of the arab league and their army building. The caliphists are in the foothills of the Mesopotamian river valley and very easily could end up getting cut off from their 'allies' in syria on the heights. they are not the singular you keep on talking about them as.

We are arming the kurds though. I think of all the people displaced by the British with their nation making the Kurds and Palestinians both got big shit sandwiches. The despot is standing down.

It's still a clusterfuck but it is not quite the disaster it was two weeks ago.

[RandomGuy]

Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants[bolded is my emphais-RG] "freedom fighters"??????



Link?


The Ottoman Empire was [blathering about the Ottoman Empire and oil redacted as not relevant, click on link to read full-RG].



So, you said ["Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters""], but don't have any evidence for it [that you can actually show me], is that correct?



Obama and Kerry were selling the bombing of Syria as helping the freedom fighters vs Assad's dictatorship. They were selling their bullshit to anyone who would listen :lol You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Stop playing dumb :rolleyes

Read history on the Ottoman Empire [yada yada yada-RG]



As far as I am aware, Obama was not a leader in the Ottoman Empire, so pardon my confusion about why it is relevant.

You still don't have any quotes of Obama or Kerry referring to ISIS as freedom fighters, so I will have to assume there aren't any.

If your worldview is based on assumptions that can be shown to be incorrect, shouldn't that cause you to rethink conclusions based on them?



Kerry and Obama were selling the Syria war for the US to fight alongside the extremists. Its already in the history books.

if you think a fact like that is assumption then you probably should rethink your point of view after getting more informed.

Your assertion doesn't get to be a fact until you can offer more evidence than your chest-thumping.

Just to be sure, do you have a link to Obama or Kerry calling the ISIS militants "freedom fighters" or not?

[RandomGuy]

We didn't arm the Syrians. That is turning out to be the right choice but I cannot speak for the saudi royal family or any of the arab league and their army building. The caliphists are in the foothills of the Mesopotamian river valley and very easily could end up getting cut off from their 'allies' in syria on the heights. they are not the singular you keep on talking about them as.

We are arming the kurds though. I think of all the people displaced by the British with their nation making the Kurds and Palestinians both got big shit sandwiches. The despot is standing down.

It's still a clusterfuck but it is not quite the disaster it was two weeks ago.

We didn't arm the people fighting the Syrian regime for good reason, but we did offer them non-lethal items like body armor, food and camo stuff, if memory serves. (I will provide links to details in a bit, see below)

I would go into more detail on the conflict, but don't want to let Che off the hook just yet. I will let him try to back up his bullshit with facts and demonstrate some knowledge of current events for a little while longer, and then give a good detailed summary of just what exactly Kerry and Obama were saying about whom, and why.

[cheguevara]

:lmao there is no detailed shit to sum up dummy. If your brain cannot accept the simple fact that Kerry and Obama wanted to aid the extremists in Syria even more so than financing and arming them but also by bombing Assads army. If you cannot accept that fact, it just means you are in plain denial comrade.

Carry on

[RandomGuy]

Remember when Kerry and Obama were calling the ISIS militants[bolded is my emphais-RG] "freedom fighters"??????



link?


neener neener, you are a poopy head


um, ok, can you support that or not?


DERP! OTTOMAN EMPIRE! My father says I am a very good driver...


uh. yeah. Seriously though you don't really have any evidence, do you? It looks like you were talking out your ass.


:lmao there is no detailed shit to sum up dummy. If your brain cannot accept the simple fact that Kerry and Obama wanted to aid the extremists in Syria even more so than financing and arming them but also by bombing Assads army. If you cannot accept that fact, it just means you are in plain denial comrade.

Carry on

Meh. I will take that as a white flag. Good enough, you got caught pulling stuff out of your ass and try to cover it up with cheap trolling.

ISIS was Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and has always been considered a terrorist group.

Quick primer on ISIS history:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/isis-a-short-history/376030/

ISIS was formerly AlQaeda in Iraq, but had to rebrand themselves after gaining a reputation for fucktarded bloodlust that killed a lot of innocent civilians.

The group has been labeled a terrorist organization by the state Department since 2004, and there is no mention of this group being called "freedom fighters" by either Kerry or Obama and anyone who suggests that a sitting president or Secretary of State would call any group formally listed as a terrorist organization such is fucking laughable.


List of terrorist organizations held by the State Department, with year placed on list, look for "Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn" (QJBR)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_State_Department_list_of_Foreign_Ter rorist_Organizations


A bit more background on this group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_Iraq#Rise_and_decline_of_Al-Qaeda_in_Iraq_.28AQI.29

Be happy to provide the non-wiki links if asked. This stuff isn't hard to find, wiki just provides a lot of collected summaries and was convenient.

Where you went wrong is that you don't seem to know the difference between ISIS, who are a group of non-syrian violent jihadis from dozens of countries, and the syrian rebels, who are, well, syrian. Within the syrian rebellion, there are violent jihadi's but they have their own groups.

See a fair list of them, and there are a lot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Here is what Obama and Kerry have actually been doing:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/01/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120801

The White House is for now apparently stopping short of giving the rebels lethal weapons, even as some U.S. allies do just that.

Obama has, rightly, been calling for support of the people telling their own government to stop shooting and jailing them.

The only way you could really disagree with that is if you are ok with the Syrian government's actions in torturing, jailing, and actively shooting protesters.

Do you think this isn't happening? or didn't?

Your posts are a bit muddled, so it is hard to tell what you are trying to get at.

[cheguevara]

Our own government tortures and shoots jihadists at will. Why cant Syria on their own territory to protect their integrity? Whos the US to be the one to say whos a good jihadist and whos a bad one??? Ridiculous :lol

plus you keep missing the fact that by bombing assad, Obama was going to help ALL jihadists. Including ISIS and all other groups in Syria. Your evasion to this point will be duly noted as a white flag.

[pgardn]

Our own government tortures and shoots jihadists at will. Why cant Syria on their own territory to protect their integrity? Whos the US to be the one to say whos a good jihadist and whos a bad one??? Ridiculous :lol

plus you keep missing the fact that by bombing assad, Obama was going to help ALL jihadists. Including ISIS and all other groups in Syria. Your evasion to this point will be duly noted as a white flag.

Obama bombed Assad?

Link.

[cheguevara]

Obama bombed Assad?

Link.

didn't say he did. He wanted to until the American people and Putin stopped him. They saved his legacy with that move.

[pgardn]

Our own government tortures and shoots jihadists at will. Why cant Syria on their own territory to protect their integrity? Whos the US to be the one to say whos a good jihadist and whos a bad one??? Ridiculous :lol

plus you keep missing the fact that by bombing assad, Obama was going to help ALL jihadists. Including ISIS and all other groups in Syria. Your evasion to this point will be duly noted as a white flag.

so I keep missing the fact that by bombing Assad, Obama was going to...

Ok then....

[DarrinS]

A message to America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uK0fXM9MRI&feature=youtu.be


Savages

[boutons_deux]

Germany to Arm Kurds Battling ISISChancellor Angela Merkel told lawmakers on Monday that her government had decided to break with a taboo on delivering weapons to conflict zones because Germany and all of Europe faced a security threat from the extremists of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

Ms. Merkel and top ministers decided Sunday to deliver thousands of machine guns, as well as antitank missiles and armored vehicles, to Kurdish forces battling ISIS in northern Iraq. The deliveries — from existing German Army stocks, and worth an estimated 70 million euros, or almost $92 million — will take place in stages in the coming weeks, the Defense Ministry said.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/02/world/europe/germany-to-arm-kurds-battling-isis.html?from=world

[boutons_deux]

Donny "you got to war with Secy of Defense you have, not the one you want" Rumsfeld now whitewashing his Iraq fuckup, having the COURAGE to speak and disagree with Useful Idiot dubya.

Donald Rumsfeld's regret over Iraq? Trying to 'fashion a democracy' there (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/08/1391612/-Donald-Rumsfeld-s-regret-over-Iraq-Trying-to-fashion-a-democracy-there)

At long last, Bush administration Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has found something he regrets in the way the U.S. war against Iraq was sold and executed.

Not the bit about weapons of mass destruction that weren't there, or the entirely fictional ties to al Qaeda and 9/11, orShock and Awe, or the insistence that the war would pay for itself, or the use of mercenary forces, or the bizarre fixation with outsourcing various other parts of the U.S. military response, or the shortchanging of the Afghanistan mission in favor of a war the Bush administration's top officials could get more excited about.No, the part that he doesn't like is the bit where we tried to convert them to democracy afterwards (http://rt.com/usa/265630-rumsfeld-bush-wrong-iraq/).


“I’m not one who thinks that our particular template of democracy is appropriate for other countries at every moment of their histories.

The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic.

I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ( and but surely silently concerned, natch. )

Rumsfeld, of course, has never been one to worry about whether a prospective American ally was a democracy or dictatorship; that much-passed-around picture of the smiling Rumsfeld shaking hands with the murderous chemical weapons-using Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, back when Hussein was an important United States ally, makes the point rather succinctly.

Given that breaking the nation up into sectarian sections was never in the cards, we can only read this as a Rumsfeldian wish that we had simply installed a different strongman as Iraqi head of state and been done with it.

He does, however, continue his long tradition of being gloriously oblivious.


He warned that Arab nations are disintegrating, and said that the West’s airstrikes in Libya had served to further destabilize the region.

Yes, that is what "destabilized" the region. Airstrikes in Libya. Sharp as a tack, he is.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/08/1391612/-Donald-Rumsfeld-s-regret-over-Iraq-Trying-to-fashion-a-democracy-there?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29#

So now do we "know an unknown" (probably a lie, but it's war criminal Rumsfeld), so how many unknowns we don't know now?

Rumsfeld, a PNACer, knew invading Iraq was for oil, URGENTLY to stop Saddam from contracting oil deals with Russia, China, France.

A "liberator loving", democratic Iraq as US puppet to establish US hegemony over oil countries was secondary. As the article said, replacing Saddam with a ruthless Iraqi, anti-democratic strongman of Repugs' choosing would have been just fine.

[boutons_deux]

And then there's these people, another group so deeply grateful to the Repugs and BigOil

The Global Struggle to Respond to the Worst Refugee Crisis in Generations

Eleven million people were uprooted by violence last year, most propelled by conflict in Syria, Iraq, Ukraine and Afghanistan.

Conflict and extreme poverty have also pushed tens of thousands out of parts of sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia.

Here’s a look at the international response to what has become the worst migration crisis since World War II (http://www.unhcr.org/53a155bc6.html), according to the United Nations.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2015/05/21/migrants/71dd62fb58a498b16489e7ceea490155d5ce6732/chart-Artboard_2.png



TAXING THE NEIGHBORS

Years of violence in Iraq and Syria have stretched the capacities of neighboring countries to accommodate the displaced.

In Jordan, unemployment has almost doubled (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/05/17/world/middleeast/ap-ml-jordan-syrian-refugees.html) since 2011 in areas with high concentrations of refugees, according to a recent International Labor Organization study.

Lebanon began to require visas from Syrians in January.

Refugees now make up about 20 percent of Lebanon’s population.

In March, Turkey announced it would close the two remaining border gates (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/world/europe/turkey-moves-to-close-all-gates-at-border-with-syria.html) with Syria.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2015/05/21/migrants/71dd62fb58a498b16489e7ceea490155d5ce6732/syria-iraq-mideast.png

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/06/09/world/migrants-global-refugee-crisis-mediterranean-ukraine-syria-rohingya-malaysia-iraq.html

If Obama proposed some $Bs in aid to help m/e countries flooded with refugees from Repugs' m/e disaster, would the Repugs approve the spending?