Team of the Decade Matchups

[baseline bum]

So who would you take in the following matchups?


1962 Celtics vs 1967 Sixers?
Prime Russell and Cousy vs Wilt in one of the seasons he gave a shit + Greer. I'll take Sixers in 6.


1977 Blazers vs 1972 Lakers?
Prime Walton leading one of the most devastating passing teams of all-time vs prime West and still dominant Chamberlain. I'm going with Portland in 6 here in the upset, as Walton's passing just got so many easy shots for Bobby Gross and Maurice Lucas.


1987 Lakers vs 1986 Celtics?
Magic, Byronn Scott, James Worthy, a still effective Kareem, and then you have AC Green and Mychal Thomspon off the bench. And then Boston's frontcourt rotation of Bird/McHale/Parish/Walton with a pretty solid SF in Scott Wedman only able to get spot minutes on that team. I gotta go 86 Celtics in 6 here, as I'd probably take them over any other team on this list too.


1991 Bulls vs 1996 Bulls?
I'm going 96 Bulls even though 91 Jordan was a little better than 96 Jordan, as 96 Rodman is better than 91 Grant and 96 Harper was a huge upgrade over 91 John Paxson. 96 Bulls in 6.


2008 Celtics vs 2001 Lakers?
One of the best defenses in league history with Garnett killing niggas in the paint and Posey a lockdown guy on the perimeter, great shooting out of Pierce, Allen, and Eddie House, young up and coming talent in Rondo and Perkins, and quality ring-chasing vets in PJ Brown and Sam Cassell. And in the other corner you have Prime Shaq when he played defense, Peak Kobe, up and coming Fisher, and Rick Fox playing lockdown D on the perimeter. Lakers in 6.


2011 Mavs vs 2014 Spurs?
Both teams absolutely humiliated the back to back champs. The 2011 Mavs were ridiculous defensively with Chandler, Marion, and Lincoln, they had insane outside shooting with Terry and Stojakovic. Dirk was shitting on everyone, and they destroyed everyone in a really difficult playoff run. On the other side the Spurs had two elite defensive centers, two top notch perimeter defenders in Leonard and Green who could both also shoot the three, Mills could get hot from the three, Diaw got tons of easy shots for his teammates, and Ginobili and Parker could take over quarters occasionally. One of the deepest teams in league history. This is the toughest call of any of them, but I'll go with the Spurs in 7 homer pick here.

[Arcadian]

Don't you mean 67 Sixers? That was the year they won the title.

Honestly I think 05 Spurs > 08 Celtics.

Interesting topic!

[ElNono]

1991 Bulls vs 1996 Bulls?
I'm going 96 Bulls even though 91 Jordan was a little better than 96 Jordan, as 96 Rodman is better than 91 Grant and 96 Harper was a huge upgrade over 91 John Paxson. 96 Bulls in 6.


'96 Bulls. DK might've been better overall in '91, but by '96 he knew he was doing something special.



2008 Celtics vs 2001 Lakers?
One of the best defenses in league history with Garnett killing niggas in the paint and Posey a lockdown guy on the perimeter, great shooting out of Pierce, Allen, and Eddie House, young up and coming talent in Rondo and Perkins, and quality ring-chasing vets in PJ Brown and Sam Cassell. And in the other corner you have Prime Shaq when he played defense, Peak Kobe, up and coming Fisher, and Rick Fox playing lockdown D on the perimeter. Lakers in 6.


'01 Lakers. Prime Shaq was unguardable.



2011 Mavs vs 2014 Spurs?
Both teams absolutely humiliated the back to back champs. The 2011 Mavs were ridiculous defensively with Chandler, Marion, and Lincoln, they had insane outside shooting with Terry and Stojakovic. Dirk was shitting on everyone, and they destroyed everyone in a really difficult playoff run. On the other side the Spurs had two elite defensive centers, two top notch perimeter defenders in Leonard and Green who could both also shoot the three, Mills could get hot from the three, Diaw got tons of easy shots for his teammates, and Ginobili and Parker could take over quarters occasionally. One of the deepest teams in league history. This is the toughest call of any of them, but I'll go with the Spurs in 7 homer pick here.


'14 Spurs. Smashed Finals and playoffs records left and right. Most dominant Spurs championship team.

All great teams tho.

[baseline bum]

Don't you mean 67 Sixers? That was the year they won the title.


You're right. I was thinking 68 because I somehow always remembered the Celtics squeezing one last title out of Russell in 69 when LA was so heavily favored, but that 69 title was a back to back.


Honestly I think 05 Spurs > 08 Celtics.

I disagree here with Duncan playing on two bad ankles. With a healthy Duncan that team probably wins 65 games though, so in that alternate universe then yes.

[kobe4life]

'01 God would easily destroy the '08 Celtics it would be simply child abuse that God would do to Ray,KG,Pierce.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

14 spurs are the best team on that list

[Killakobe81]

14 spurs are the best team on that list

Great team but, :lmao

[Ghazi]

For what ive been alive: 1996 Bulls, 2008 Celtics, 2014 Spurs. 2014 Spurs are the best team Ive ever seen

[Killakobe81]

For what ive been alive: 1996 Bulls, 2008 Celtics, 2014 Spurs. 2014 Spurs are the best team Ive ever seen

2008 Celts were a great team but is overrated. They were pushed to 7 by a flawed Hawks team in the playoffs, tbh. And a almost one man Lebron team. Very good one of teh best defensive teams but overrated on here and other sites.

[Killakobe81]

Oh and 2014 Spurs beats 2011 Mavs ...
2011 Dirk would be best player on either team ... but spurs were the better team. Not sure Deshawn Stevenson could even play meaningful mins. vs. Spurs.

[baseline bum]

2008 Celts were a great team but is overrated. They were pushed to 7 by a flawed Hawks team in the playoffs, tbh. And a almost one man Lebron team. Very good one of teh best defensive teams but overrated on here and other sites.

Would you take the 04 Pistons at #2 for the decade then?

[Infinite_limit]

For what ive been alive: 1996 Bulls, 2008 Celtics, 2014 Spurs. 2014 Spurs are the best team Ive ever seen
2001 Lakers would give the 1996 Bulls more problems than 2014 Spurs

[scanry]

2001 Lakers would give the 1996 Bulls more problems than 2014 Spurs

Don't think so. Scotty and Michael will lock down Kobe and gang up on Shaq like they did back in Orlando. They also had Rodman who always played Shaq well.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Great team but, :lmao

Quality take, no explanation

[Ghazi]

2008 Celts were a great team but is overrated. They were pushed to 7 by a flawed Hawks team in the playoffs, tbh. And a almost one man Lebron team. Very good one of teh best defensive teams but overrated on here and other sites.
They dominated the hawks 99-65 in game 7. That series was never in doubt. Same
With the Cavs. Sometimes teams get pushed to 7 due to luck for the opponent, it was not a close series at all.

[Ghazi]

They went 66-16 with +10.3 point differential and dominated their Finals
opponent including a 131-92 clincher on a dream season. Before the 2014 spurs came
Along 2008 Celtics were the best post-jordan team.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

They dominated the hawks 99-65 in game 7. That series was never in doubt. Same
With the Cavs. Sometimes teams get pushed to 7 due to luck for the opponent, it was not a close series at all.

So the Spurs going 7 vs the Mavs was a fluke for Dallas?

[Ghazi]

It did require a Carter shot. Mavs presented zome matchup problems, but coulda easily lost in 5-6. I think the Spurs are the best team ever.

[Ghazi]

And like the hawks, the Mavs put up no resistance in game 7 showing that this wasnt as even a matchup as the 7 games indicated.

[Kool Bob Love]

13-14 Spurs >>>>>>

[Killakobe81]

They went 66-16 with +10.3 point differential and dominated their Finals
opponent including a 131-92 clincher on a dream season. Before the 2014 spurs came
Along 2008 Celtics were the best post-jordan team.

Point differential is not as impressive when you consider the shitty competition in the East. They were a very good team but best since Jordan's Bulls? No way.
I might even take 2005 Spurs, 99 Spurs 2014 Spurs the 2000-2002, Lakers over those Celts. I know them early Spurs team were considered boring but prime Manu and Prime Timmy is pretty damn fearsome imho. (( spurs had a shitty backcourt but David was a beast on defense. And Tim was well ...TIm.

[Killakobe81]

But 2008 Celts are the best of the "one and done" title teams ... Mavs probably 2nd ...

[ElNono]

But 2008 Celts are the best of the "one and done" title teams ... Mavs probably 2nd ...

04 Pistons were pretty good too... they definitely looked like they could've won 1 or 2 more...

[spurraider21]

I like 04 Pistons over the 2008 Celtics

[Franklin]

Mavs and Spurs both deserve credits for preventing the super fags from 3-peating but I'm arbitrarily seeing it a 60-40 split in favor of them Mavs. The 11' Heat were pretty much like the 08' Celts and the big 3 at that time (all of them in top forms) were better than they'd ever be from then on. The Great Satan Lebron might have improved a little since the 11' defeat but wade/bosh have both been slumping fast since then. The fags were just as desperate to ring as the Mavs were and the Mavs won out, and either of those two teams would've beaten the 14' Spurs imho. Spurs won 14 because their opponents were relatively weak (OKC w/ an injured Ibaka, Heat with wade/Bosh regressed into role players etc...) compared to the 11' Lakers, 11' OKC, not to say the newly founded Super Fags.

[ambchang]

67 sixers - wilt finally got some help. Will stomp Russell's hear in

70s matchup is a tough one. I'd go with the blazers. A vey underrated team that was before it's time. That philly team the blazers beat in the finals was grea individually, much like the 72 lakers, and the blazers beat them. So I am reasoning the blazers come out on top in this one.

86 celtics - I'd go with them over any team that ever played. Individual talent plus team work.

91 bulls - 96 bulls were severly overrated. That 72-10 record was impressive but that came in an expansion year that simply stretched the talent of the league way too thin. Also look at their finals record, they got pushed in by Payton and kemp. Young Jordan and pippen will do an even better job than Payton did on old Jordan. That said, I'd go with 92 bulls over either team.

01 lakers - nobody can even touch shaq on the celtics, horry will keep Garnett in check. Kobe will keep pierce in check (this is not the 08 version of Kobe who was glory chasing). Rondo will not be able to take advantage of lakers poor pnr defense because he can't shoot. I'd take 04 pistons or 05 spurs over 08 celtics too.

14 spurs - I'm a spurs fan. Also, spurs passing can break down the old Mavs, and splitter and Leonard can help keep dirk in check.

[scanry]

1967 76ers
1972 Lakers
1986 Celtics
1991 Bulls
2001 Lakers
2014 Spurs

[baseline bum]

70s matchup is a tough one. I'd go with the blazers. A vey underrated team that was before it's time. That philly team the blazers beat in the finals was grea individually, much like the 72 lakers, and the blazers beat them. So I am reasoning the blazers come out on top in this one.


It's too bad, the 78 Blazers were even better before Walton got hurt. They were 50-10 at the time, on a 68 win pace, so that tells you how serious that Blazer team was. The 77 Blazers don't get nearly enough credit, sweeping prime Kareem and backdoor sweeping prime Dr. J. Everyone was young on that team too, so you gotta wonder if Walton stays healthy do the Lakers not start winning titles until the mid 80s?

[Killakobe81]

04 Pistons were pretty good too... they definitely looked like they could've won 1 or 2 more...

Fair point they are underrated ... I even did so on here, in fact. I would take any of the 3 over the repeat Lakers or Heat. Heat were never as good as advertised only Lebron was. Wade was avtually best in the year they got beat by dem Mavs. Lebron was just too good. Bosh was pretty good for the most part but never got enough touches. I woudl say Heat were better than the Kobe led Lakers and probably rockets but but not as good as any of the other teams that won at least 2 titles in 3 years.

[Killakobe81]

1967 76ers
1972 Lakers
1986 Celtics
1991 Bulls
2001 Lakers
2014 Spurs

Not a bad list I might argue for Spurs just after Bulls and Lakers (3rd) but a good list. I think recency has caused a slight inflation of the Spurs title. The outstanding regular seasons, the beat down of OKC in retrospect, were more impressive than beating the Heat who were running on fumes and became Cavs south. Not to take anything away from the Spurs who are easily up there with the 86 Celts as the best passing/shooting team I have ever seen. But they are not as good as those Celts the 1985 Lakers the 2001 Lakers or the 1991 Bulls.

[Brazil]

2014 Spurs vs. 2011 Mavs would be a hell of a serie imho

My homer side makes me believe 14 Spurs would prevail... Mills, Parker would feast imho but Dirk 11 was so dominant. Dat pairing with Chandler... I think Splits and Timmy would struggle there but Spurs have stretch bigs that would annoy Dirk (Boris but also Matty :lol ) on the D end

Great match up

[Killakobe81]

2014 Spurs vs. 2011 Mavs would be a hell of a serie imho

My homer side makes me believe 14 Spurs would prevail... Mills, Parker would feast imho but Dirk 11 was so dominant. Dat pairing with Chandler... I think Splits and Timmy would struggle there but Spurs have stretch bigs that would annoy Dirk (Boris but also Matty :lol ) on the D end

Great match up


Of course the 2014 Spurs would prevail ... Like I said Dirk is the best player in that series but outside of that Spurs win every key matchup. RC is almost as good as Pop but they get the edge there too ..

[scanry]

Not a bad list I might argue for Spurs just after Bulls and Lakers (3rd) but a good list. I think recency has caused a slight inflation of the Spurs title. The outstanding regular seasons, the beat down of OKC in retrospect, were more impressive than beating the Heat who were running on fumes and became Cavs south. Not to take anything away from the Spurs who are easily up there with the 86 Celts as the best passing/shooting team I have ever seen. But they are not as good as those Celts the 1985 Lakers the 2001 Lakers or the 1991 Bulls.

I only picked the winner (of the matchups).

BTW the 2001 Lakers faced a shitty Portland team in Round 1, a young Sactown team in WCSF & an old San Antonio team in the WCF. This year's Heat & OKC teams were better than those teams.

I still think the 1991 Bulls team would've beaten any of the above teams. They were on a mission and we saw the best offensive Bulls team in the MJ era. Their FG% too was off the charts and get this, MJ put up 31.2/11.4/6.6/2.8/1.6 shooting 56% in the finals. He actually played PG all season. Has a SG ever put up 11 assists in a playoffs series?

[scanry]

Of course the 2014 Spurs would prevail ... Like I said Dirk is the best player in that series but outside of that Spurs win every key matchup. RC is almost as good as Pop but they get the edge there too ..

What Rick Carlisle did that season was amazing (even in the regular season with all the injuries). Despite the rings advantage, him & Pop are real close ranking wise. Pop has the advantage cause he develops players around Tim better than Carlisle, but Rick hasn't been with the Mavs for too long. I still remember how well the Pacers & the Pistons played under Carlisle.

[Killakobe81]

I only picked the winner (of the matchups).

BTW the 2001 Lakers faced a shitty Portland team in Round 1, a young Sactown team in WCSF & an old San Antonio team in the WCF. This year's Heat & OKC teams were better than those teams.

I still think the 1991 Bulls team would've beaten any of the above teams. They were on a mission and we saw the best offensive Bulls team in the MJ era. Their FG% too was off the charts and get this, MJ put up 31.2/11.4/6.6/2.8/1.6 shooting 56% in the finals. He actually played PG all season. Has a SG ever put up 11 assists in a playoffs series?

My bad scanry ... Mj was at his peak but Pippen and Grant were still "raw" it's the best Mj ever played but he had to do so much for that team I dont think they were as good as the others, tbh.

[Brazil]

Of course the 2014 Spurs would prevail ... Like I said Dirk is the best player in that series but outside of that Spurs win every key matchup. RC is almost as good as Pop but they get the edge there too ..

in 2014, Carlisle with a roster largely inferior to 2011 and an older Dirk gave a lot of trouble to Spurs. It's obviously not that simple... Spurs were heating up tbh and absolutely far from their peak in the first round... but 2011 mavs / 2014 Spurs would be a much closer serie than people might think.

Toss up for me with a slight maybe homerish advantage to Spurs

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Mavs and Spurs both deserve credits for preventing the super fags from 3-peating but I'm arbitrarily seeing it a 60-40 split in favor of them Mavs. The 11' Heat were pretty much like the 08' Celts and the big 3 at that time (all of them in top forms) were better than they'd ever be from then on. The Great Satan Lebron might have improved a little since the 11' defeat but wade/bosh have both been slumping fast since then. The fags were just as desperate to ring as the Mavs were and the Mavs won out, and either of those two teams would've beaten the 14' Spurs imho. Spurs won 14 because their opponents were relatively weak (OKC w/ an injured Ibaka, Heat with wade/Bosh regressed into role players etc...) compared to the 11' Lakers, 11' OKC, not to say the newly founded Super Fags.

This take is very very bad. Wade wasnt on the decline till this year (in the playoffs). Bosh still looks good.

[scanry]

My bad scanry ... Mj was at his peak but Pippen and Grant were still "raw" it's the best Mj ever played but he had to do so much for that team I dont think they were as good as the others, tbh.

I think Cartright is the only player who MJ feared physically and mentally. But you're right, Grant & Pippen were still raw, but you could just tell with the way they were playing in the second half of the season. They were much like the 1999-2000 Lakers with better execution and elite defense.

[Killakobe81]

I think Cartright is the only player who MJ feared physically and mentally. But you're right, Grant & Pippen were still raw, but you could just tell with the way they were playing in the second half of the season. They were much like the 1999-2000 Lakers with better execution and elite defense.

I think their defense was even better than Rodman era Bulls tbh ...

[100%duncan]

This take is very very bad. Wade wasnt on the decline till this year (in the playoffs). Bosh still looks good.

He wasn't declining until Green tapped his ass :lol

People were claiming he's back after that Pacers series

[Spurs 4 The Win]

He wasn't declining until Green tapped his ass :lol

People were claiming he's back after that Pacers series

lol agreed, Green owns Miami for some reason, kinda like how Reggie Jackson owns us

[Gervin44Silas13]

If we could break it breakdown to eff. offense/defense. pts per game avg. Id have to be the 2014 Spurs have to be on top.....They clearly beat the shit out of eveyone in every win they had by 10+ or more points in the run for the title.

[Arcadian]

Also the 2012 Heat deserve consideration for a top team of this decade. That was Lebron at his peak, and Wade was still near his.

[baseline bum]

Also the 2012 Heat deserve consideration for a top team of this decade. That was Lebron at his peak, and Wade was still near his.

The 2011 Finals are the last time we saw Prime Wade. 2012 Wade shot a Kobe-esque 43.5% in the Finals. I still think 2009 was LeBron's peak. I can't think of any other player in league history who would take Mo Williams and a bunch of D-Leaguers to 66 wins.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So who would you take in the following matchups?


1962 Celtics vs 1967 Sixers?
Prime Russell and Cousy vs Wilt in one of the seasons he gave a shit + Greer. I'll take Sixers in 6.

Cunningham was on that team too and made for a nice frontline. I'll take the Sixers in 7.


1977 Blazers vs 1972 Lakers?
Prime Walton leading one of the most devastating passing teams of all-time vs prime West and still dominant Chamberlain. I'm going with Portland in 6 here in the upset, as Walton's passing just got so many easy shots for Bobby Gross and Maurice Lucas.

Wilt could guard Walton one on one which mitigates his effectiveness while the reverse is not true. West and Baylor were a hell of a lot better than Gross and Lucas. Lakers sweep.


1987 Lakers vs 1986 Celtics?
Magic, Byronn Scott, James Worthy, a still effective Kareem, and then you have AC Green and Mychal Thomspon off the bench. And then Boston's frontcourt rotation of Bird/McHale/Parish/Walton with a pretty solid SF in Scott Wedman only able to get spot minutes on that team. I gotta go 86 Celtics in 6 here, as I'd probably take them over any other team on this list too.

I think Chief could do a better job on Jabbar than anyone the Lakers had to throw at McHale. The thing about that Lakers team was the ability of Scott, Worthy, and Magic to run. And defensively Worthy was not a bad check on Bird. Nonetheless, the Lakers never beat the Celtics in the finals. Celtics in 6.


1991 Bulls vs 1996 Bulls?
I'm going 96 Bulls even though 91 Jordan was a little better than 96 Jordan, as 96 Rodman is better than 91 Grant and 96 Harper was a huge upgrade over 91 John Paxson. 96 Bulls in 6.

Those later Bulls were just a better team as you describe. Jordan was still at the top of his game. 96 in 5.



2008 Celtics vs 2001 Lakers?
One of the best defenses in league history with Garnett killing niggas in the paint and Posey a lockdown guy on the perimeter, great shooting out of Pierce, Allen, and Eddie House, young up and coming talent in Rondo and Perkins, and quality ring-chasing vets in PJ Brown and Sam Cassell. And in the other corner you have Prime Shaq when he played defense, Peak Kobe, up and coming Fisher, and Rick Fox playing lockdown D on the perimeter. Lakers in 6.

Perkins would have checked shaq and in the grand scheme of things that isn't too bad. How Thibodeau would overload the strongside and rotate on kickouts helps contain a player like Shaq. Posey on Bryant is not a bad matchup. Even against good defense Bryant can get off and hit his fadeaway but Peirce also had a knack for that. I think Fisher would have had isses stopping Rondo from breaking down the defense whereas Rondo could cheat and recover for Fishers spot up shooting. Horry vs Garnett would have been a compelling matchup but again the Lakers don't beat Boston in the finals. Celtics in 7.


2011 Mavs vs 2014 Spurs?
Both teams absolutely humiliated the back to back champs. The 2011 Mavs were ridiculous defensively with Chandler, Marion, and Lincoln, they had insane outside shooting with Terry and Stojakovic. Dirk was shitting on everyone, and they destroyed everyone in a really difficult playoff run. On the other side the Spurs had two elite defensive centers, two top notch perimeter defenders in Leonard and Green who could both also shoot the three, Mills could get hot from the three, Diaw got tons of easy shots for his teammates, and Ginobili and Parker could take over quarters occasionally. One of the deepest teams in league history. This is the toughest call of any of them, but I'll go with the Spurs in 7 homer pick here.

Spurs in 4.

[jimbo]

2011 Mavs are massively overrated if we're even coming close to talking about them as the team of the decade. IMO they get beat by both championship Heat teams and destroyed by the 2013 or 2014 Spurs. Tiago/Tim stop Dirk/Tyson. The rest of the Spurs' supporting cast shits all over the rest of the Mavs. Not even close.

12' Heat and 2014 Spurs would be closer to a tossup. Lebron was better in '13, but they actually had an elite perimeter defense in '12--not like the absolutely terrible one they had this postseason. What helps the Spurs though is that they were prone to giving up open 3s iirc.

[jimbo]

He wasn't declining until Green tapped his ass :lol

People were claiming he's back after that Pacers series

People have been calling out his shit defense for a while now tbh, definitely before the Spurs series. It was his offense that was flat out awful in the Finals--against everyone except the Spurs' bench. Shit was just sad.

[jimbo]

The 2011 Finals are the last time we saw Prime Wade. 2012 Wade shot a Kobe-esque 43.5% in the Finals. I still think 2009 was LeBron's peak. I can't think of any other player in league history who would take Mo Williams and a bunch of D-Leaguers to 66 wins.

2012 Wade didn't have his offense going, but he at least still played elite defense. That was his calling card that post season. You remember JVG creaming about his blocks every 5 minutes? "The best shot blocking shooting guard of all time" probably got said twice every playoff game.

Tbh, I don't even know how to gauge whether '13 or '09 Lebron was better.

[Blizzardwizard]

67 Sixers
72 Lakers
87 Lakers
96 Bulls
01 Lakers
14 Spurs

[baseline bum]

2011 Mavs are massively overrated if we're even coming close to talking about them as the team of the decade. IMO they get beat by both championship Heat teams and destroyed by the 2013 or 2014 Spurs. Tiago/Tim stop Dirk/Tyson. The rest of the Spurs' supporting cast shits all over the rest of the Mavs. Not even close.

12' Heat and 2014 Spurs would be closer to a tossup. Lebron was better in '13, but they actually had an elite perimeter defense in '12--not like the absolutely terrible one they had this postseason. What helps the Spurs though is that they were prone to giving up open 3s iirc.

You're really overrating the 2012 Heat. The 2013 team was better with their 66 wins, 29 game win streak, Birdman getting minutes over Joel Anthony, and Ray Allen over James Jones. It's not like the 2012 team had 2010 Wade, and as injured as Wade was, he put up a huge Game 4 and an even bigger Game 7 against a much better opponent in the 2013 Spurs than in the Thunder in 2012.

And the 2011 Mavs were an incredible team. They completely destroyed the best post team in the league in LA, and then took out the two best transition teams in OKC and Miami. You gotta be a pretty complete team to beat such diverse competition, and they did it convincingly. The only teams I have ever seen that were as automatic in close games were the 99 Spurs and 01 Lakers. That was one of the most fun teams to watch I have ever seen. I'll always hate Nowizki and Terry, but sometimes you just gotta appreciate watching basketball played at the level that Mavs team was at in 2011.

[AaronY]

Carlisle was a fucking boss coach that playoffs. Mavs played progressively better in each series as it went on generally due to his awesome adjustments. Like the first few games versus the lakers were close but by the end of series it was some varsity versus JV type shit. In all the other series they won like the last three games after dropping one or two of the early games iirc

[Phillip]

2011 Mavs are massively overrated if we're even coming close to talking about them as the team of the decade. IMO they get beat by both championship Heat teams and destroyed by the 2013 or 2014 Spurs. Tiago/Tim stop Dirk/Tyson. The rest of the Spurs' supporting cast shits all over the rest of the Mavs. Not even close.


:lol of course you think that

[Ghazi]

2009 Lakers are underrated.. Might be the 3rd best team of last 10 years behind the 14 spurs and 08 celtics.. Jmho

[spurraider21]

2009 Lakers are underrated.. Might be the 3rd best team of last 10 years behind the 14 spurs and 08 celtics.. Jmho
Wasn't that the run with a historically easy playoff schedule?

[Ghazi]

Wasn't that the run with a historically easy playoff schedule?

West was down that year but Gasol/Kobe were in their primes.. odom/bynum/ariza were contributing. The passing and length of the team was really difficult to deal with imo. Top 5 in offense and defense iirc. They were wire to wire dominant

[DMC]

It did require a Carter shot. Mavs presented zome matchup problems, but coulda easily lost in 5-6. I think the Spurs are the best team ever.

Probably in all of sports, in the history of humanity.

[DMC]

The 2011 Mavs stomped everyone's asses, and it started with that comeback, I think, against Portland.

[Ghazi]

Mavs went 14-3 after portland staged the 23 point comebackzz But it did require some heroics snd come from behind wins. There were times where the title appeared in doubt, but Dirk .. :)

[jimbo]

You're really overrating the 2012 Heat. The 2013 team was better with their 66 wins, 29 game win streak, Birdman getting minutes over Joel Anthony, and Ray Allen over James Jones. It's not like the 2012 team had 2010 Wade, and as injured as Wade was, he put up a huge Game 4 and an even bigger Game 7 against a much better opponent in the 2013 Spurs than in the Thunder in 2012.

And the 2011 Mavs were an incredible team. They completely destroyed the best post team in the league in LA, and then took out the two best transition teams in OKC and Miami. You gotta be a pretty complete team to beat such diverse competition, and they did it convincingly. The only teams I have ever seen that were as automatic in close games were the 99 Spurs and 01 Lakers. That was one of the most fun teams to watch I have ever seen. I'll always hate Nowizki and Terry, but sometimes you just gotta appreciate watching basketball played at the level that Mavs team was at in 2011.

The '13 Heat tired themselves out in the regular season with that streak. They weren't even close to being that dominant in the postseason. The '12 Heat were like the '14 Spurs in that once they flipped the switch (Lebron's game vs the Celtics and the Spurs G7 vs the Mavs)--it was over.

And it was more like Ray Allen over Mike Miller--not James Jones. Allen supplanted Miller as their end of the game sharpshooter when they went to a PGless offense. Birdman was a big upgrade--but that's still just a depth move. Joel Anthony didn't close games in '12. Bosh did at center.

And I don't care at all about Dwyane Wade's offensive numbers at this point tbh. That's just a luxury. He played exceptional D during the '12 run. Defensively he wasn't anything special in '13--and was a shell in '14. The Heat lost to the Spurs because of their horrible D, not because of any offensive deficiencies. So I'd much rather have a lockdown defender in '12 Wade and Shane Battier's better D in '12 over the difference between Miller/Allen and Birdman/Anthony. (And i guess Lebron's 3 point shooting)


As for the Mavs, that LA team they beat was a joke. That whole season was filled with

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/289593-1/Lakers+playoffs+on-off+switch.JPG


every time they'd fuck up games. They were diverse competition in that they had 2 7 footers that could kinda score + Odom--yeah, but let's not act like they were the championship LA team or anything. MVPau was playing like dogshit that postseason and it wasn't because of Chandler or Dirk. It was his :cry breakup with his girlfriend :cry tbh. He only averaged 13.5 ppg and 6.8 rpg on 41.8% shooting against the Hornets.

As for the Thunder and Heat, I think they're better wins from their name value than from the teams they actually were. What those Mavs did was prove you can't win a ring in this league anymore by playing shitty iso-ball/relying on transition baskets in the playoffs. They forced the Heat to go all out in getting 3 point shooters that offseason so they wouldn't run into the same spacing issues again. (and it should go without saying that the 11' Heat and the 12/13/14 Heat aren't even in the same stratosphere in either offensive or defensive systems)

So I don't think they're a bad championship team or anything--but I think the offensive system improvements with the modern Heat/Spurs offenses would be too much for them to handle.

[jimbo]

:lol of course you think that

Basic fact imo. Tiago has skullfucked Dirk every time they've met. Patty is a better midget chucker than Barea. Actually I don't have time to go through this with all the players--but you get the idea.

[TampaDude]

So the Spurs going 7 vs the Mavs was a fluke for Dallas?

Pretty much...if not for VC's utter bullshit buzzer beater, the Spurs win that series in 5.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Pretty much...if not for VC's utter bullshit buzzer beater, the Spurs win that series in 5.

I disagree, Mavs competed every single game with us and blew us out in game 2, while I think that was flukey because we were playing bad, they played at a very high level. But they woke us up. They were just as close as we were from possibly taking the series in 5/6. If game 4 goes there way we are either talking about a comeback only 5% of teams have made or we are witnessing a meltdown for the ages on Spurstalk

[TampaDude]

I disagree, Mavs competed every single game with us and blew us out in game 2, while I think that was flukey because we were playing bad, they played at a very high level. But they woke us up. They were just as close as we were from possibly taking the series in 5/6. If game 4 goes there way we are either talking about a comeback only 5% of teams have made or we are witnessing a meltdown for the ages on Spurstalk

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

With the level of play we showed in that series in games 1-6, it was no fluke at all that a game 7 happened is what Im saying. Had we played at game 7 level from the start its a sweep, im not denying that we were clearly better. Im just saying that we could have been up 3-1 just as easily as down 3-1 (especially with game 1 and 4 being so incredibly close). Do you know what I mean?

[cd021]

I think the '11 Spurs team could have beaten the '11 Mavs team but it wouldn't be even close if it was the '14 Spurs team and the '11 Mavs.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I think the '11 Spurs team could have beaten the '11 Mavs team but it wouldn't be even close if it was the '14 Spurs team and the '11 Mavs.

Agreed, I remember Lakers and Mavs fans rejoicing when we were eliminated in 11'. Grizzlies were a fucking terrible matchup

[scanry]

2009 Lakers are underrated.. Might be the 3rd best team of last 10 years behind the 14 spurs and 08 celtics.. Jmho

I don't think they were underrated tbh. Denver looked just as good as the Lakers in the WCF and Rockets just mailed it in. They came out flat in G7. Jazz were a mess and Phx would've played them better.

The league didn't look very promising that season. After the Celtics lost Garnett, people knew the Lakers would ring.

[scanry]

I think the '11 Spurs team could have beaten the '11 Mavs team but it wouldn't be even close if it was the '14 Spurs team and the '11 Mavs.

The '11 Spurs were a fools gold team. I have a bunch of those games on my HD and boy were they slow. Duncan looked like a 37 yr old big and TP & Ginobili weren't much better either. Dick & George Hill were playing 30+ mins and we had a terrible bench.

Regardless we were going to get exposed in the playoffs.

[baseline bum]

I think the '11 Spurs team could have beaten the '11 Mavs team but it wouldn't be even close if it was the '14 Spurs team and the '11 Mavs.

That's pretty ridiculous. The 2011 Spurs ran out to a ridiculous record the first 3 months or so of the season (I remember they were ahead of the 96 Bulls pace for a long time early on) and then flamed out in March and April when the games started to matter, like a better version of this year's Pacers.

[scanry]

That's pretty ridiculous. The 2011 Spurs ran out to a ridiculous record the first 3 months or so of the season (I remember they were ahead of the 96 Bulls pace for a long time early on) and then flamed out in March and April when the games started to matter, like a better version of this year's Pacers.

Like Chicago, the Spurs started off 25-3. However Chicago had an 18 game win streak (41-3) after they lost their 3rd game.

The Bulls were 66-8 after 74 games. It's pretty remarkable that they only ran out of gas after Gm 3 of the finals. They literally went 86-11 till that point.

[Jenks]

I agree with almost everything in the OP except the 08 Celtics inclusion, I can't think of a weaker team in the 00's that won it. They needed 7 games to get out of the first two rounds and 6 for the ECF and Finals. Good team but massively underachieved as a superteam. I'd go with the 03 Spurs but would also take the 06 Heat, 04 Pistons, or 09 Lakers over them.

[diego]

The '11 Spurs were a fools gold team. I have a bunch of those games on my HD and boy were they slow. Duncan looked like a 37 yr old big and TP & Ginobili weren't much better either. Dick & George Hill were playing 30+ mins and we had a terrible bench.

Regardless we were going to get exposed in the playoffs.

agree on everything, but tony and manu had good seasons, its just that tony didnt show up vs memphis and manu missed the crucial game 1, otherwise they may have made it to the WCF despite all those problems.

[100%duncan]

No one beats '11 Mavs in THAT year tbh.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

No one beats '11 Mavs in THAT year tbh.

We were 3-1 vs the Mavs and we won both on their home floor that year, they were terrified of us, and we had beaten them the year before in the playoffs and would have had homecourt; I disagree that we couldnt have beaten them.

[ambchang]

The Mavs clicked in the playoffs. They didn't do particularly well during the regular season trying to figure out the pieces and getting the right minutes for everyone, but once the playoffs started, they got their groove, dirk went video game mode and they were unstoppable.

Regular season records means little, the extra few days of practice allows a team to plan better, weaknesses are exploited, strengths are suppressed, coaching gets magnified. It's just a different game. Spurs fans should know given the failures of the 80s and 90s. Phenomenal regular season teams, easily planned for playoff teams.

BKN swept the heat in the regular season this year but got swept in the playoffs. Ditto for OKC vs the spurs.

[RsxPiimp]

The Mavs clicked in the playoffs. They didn't do particularly well during the regular season trying to figure out the pieces and getting the right minutes for everyone, but once the playoffs started, they got their groove, dirk went video game mode and they were unstoppable.

Regular season records means little, the extra few days of practice allows a team to plan better, weaknesses are exploited, strengths are suppressed, coaching gets magnified. It's just a different game. Spurs fans should know given the failures of the 80s and 90s. Phenomenal regular season teams, easily planned for playoff teams.

BKN swept the heat in the regular season this year but got swept in the playoffs. Ditto for OKC vs the spurs.
A misconception

[Killakobe81]

A misconception

Dirk did get overrated a bit and his Finals were far from perfect. However he did shoot the ball at a success rate I had not "felt" since Bird. Meaning when LArry Legend let it fly no matter what the stats "say" I almost always thought his was going in. dirk in 2011 was the closest thing to 1984-1986 Bird (shooting only) that I can recall. And he was not bad in the finals just not as awesome as the earlier rounds.

[RsxPiimp]

Dirk did get overrated a bit and his Finals were far from perfect. However he did shoot the ball at a success rate I had not "felt" since Bird. Meaning when LArry Legend let it fly no matter what the stats "say" I almost always thought his was going in. dirk in 2011 was the closest thing to 1984-1986 Bird (shooting only) that I can recall. And he was not bad in the finals just not as awesome as the earlier rounds.

Yeah he was blazing hot against the Lakers and OKC but was a bit disappointing against Miami. People talk about Dirk in 2011 as if it was one of the greatest playoff run when in reality it was a bit short of that in the Finals.

[100%duncan]

We were 3-1 vs the Mavs and we won both on their home floor that year, they were terrified of us, and we had beaten them the year before in the playoffs and would have had homecourt; I disagree that we couldnt have beaten them.

But then Manu got injured and everyone realized that we relied on an old man dice and a declining Duncan (ironically) as our frontcourt. And then, Richard Jefferson.

[100%duncan]

^Oh and we also had Bonner as our 1st big off the bench, followed by Blair and............ Splitter.

[Sportstudi]

Yeah he was blazing hot against the Lakers and OKC but was a bit disappointing against Miami. People talk about Dirk in 2011 as if it was one of the greatest playoff run when in reality it was a bit short of that in the Finals.

Dirk didn't play in the finals like he did vs. LA or OKC, but he still averaged over 10 points in the 4th quarters, the time when it really mattered.

[Sportstudi]

The '13 Heat tired themselves out in the regular season with that streak. They weren't even close to being that dominant in the postseason. The '12 Heat were like the '14 Spurs in that once they flipped the switch (Lebron's game vs the Celtics and the Spurs G7 vs the Mavs)--it was over.

And it was more like Ray Allen over Mike Miller--not James Jones. Allen supplanted Miller as their end of the game sharpshooter when they went to a PGless offense. Birdman was a big upgrade--but that's still just a depth move. Joel Anthony didn't close games in '12. Bosh did at center.

And I don't care at all about Dwyane Wade's offensive numbers at this point tbh. That's just a luxury. He played exceptional D during the '12 run. Defensively he wasn't anything special in '13--and was a shell in '14. The Heat lost to the Spurs because of their horrible D, not because of any offensive deficiencies. So I'd much rather have a lockdown defender in '12 Wade and Shane Battier's better D in '12 over the difference between Miller/Allen and Birdman/Anthony. (And i guess Lebron's 3 point shooting)


As for the Mavs, that LA team they beat was a joke. That whole season was filled with

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/289593-1/Lakers+playoffs+on-off+switch.JPG


every time they'd fuck up games. They were diverse competition in that they had 2 7 footers that could kinda score + Odom--yeah, but let's not act like they were the championship LA team or anything. MVPau was playing like dogshit that postseason and it wasn't because of Chandler or Dirk. It was his :cry breakup with his girlfriend :cry tbh. He only averaged 13.5 ppg and 6.8 rpg on 41.8% shooting against the Hornets.

As for the Thunder and Heat, I think they're better wins from their name value than from the teams they actually were. What those Mavs did was prove you can't win a ring in this league anymore by playing shitty iso-ball/relying on transition baskets in the playoffs. They forced the Heat to go all out in getting 3 point shooters that offseason so they wouldn't run into the same spacing issues again. (and it should go without saying that the 11' Heat and the 12/13/14 Heat aren't even in the same stratosphere in either offensive or defensive systems)

So I don't think they're a bad championship team or anything--but I think the offensive system improvements with the modern Heat/Spurs offenses would be too much for them to handle.

Lol, that is just wrong. What did Dirk when he played vs. Denver in 2009 as during the series his back-then girlfriend turned out to be a fraud? He dropped 34.4/11.6/4.0 on 53/39/92. So, stop trying to use this crap as an excuse for Pau. Pau shit the bed and struggled offensively and defensively, mainly against Dirk.

[Sportstudi]

2011 Mavs are massively overrated if we're even coming close to talking about them as the team of the decade. IMO they get beat by both championship Heat teams and destroyed by the 2013 or 2014 Spurs. Tiago/Tim stop Dirk/Tyson. The rest of the Spurs' supporting cast shits all over the rest of the Mavs. Not even close.

12' Heat and 2014 Spurs would be closer to a tossup. Lebron was better in '13, but they actually had an elite perimeter defense in '12--not like the absolutely terrible one they had this postseason. What helps the Spurs though is that they were prone to giving up open 3s iirc.

You're either a troll or completely retarded. While I think that the 14 Spurs would likely win that matchup (they were too deep, a hell of a team), the 11 Mavs were much better than you think. Dirk played well in 2014 overall given his age (in the regular season, he didn't play that great in the playoffs though, that's for sure), but he was much, much better in 2011. I don't think that Splitter would be able to shut down 2011 Dirk, neither would be Diaw. The Spurs would win it as they were the better team, but to think that it would be an easy win series for the Spurs is downright delusional. Maybe you should switch your fandom and join Lakersground as you have already all the tools needed to be a successful poster over there (being completely delusional and beyond retarded).

[Brazil]

Yeah he was blazing hot against the Lakers and OKC but was a bit disappointing against Miami. People talk about Dirk in 2011 as if it was one of the greatest playoff run when in reality it was a bit short of that in the Finals.

Disappointing ? wtf ?

what people are asking lately ? dude put 26 ppg, you add 10 rpg, he made 45 FTs during that serie at 100% and dominated fourth quarters... shhhh

[Sportstudi]

Disappointing ? wtf ?

what people are asking lately ? dude put 26 ppg, you add 10 rpg, he made 45 FTs during that serie at 100% and dominated fourth quarters... shhhh

He shot 45/46 (97.8 %), but that's just nitpicking ;)

[Brazil]

He shot 45/46 (97.8 %), but that's just nitpicking ;)

:lol true... my bad

[100%duncan]

I dont know how one can be disappointed with Dirk's 2011 Finals performance tbh :lol One of the best ever maybe better than Whi's imho.

[spurraider21]

when _______ let it fly no matter what the stats "say" I almost always thought his was going in
k

[RsxPiimp]

Disappointing ? wtf ?

what people are asking lately ? dude put 26 ppg, you add 10 rpg, he made 45 FTs during that serie at 100% and dominated fourth quarters... shhhh

You need to read. I said his performance in the Finals was disappointing in comparison to his hot streak agains the Lakers and OKC.

He shot 41% compared to 55% against OKC and 57% with the Lakers.

[RsxPiimp]

I dont know how one can be disappointed with Dirk's 2011 Finals performance tbh :lol One of the best ever maybe better than Whi's imho.

Not really. It doesn't even rank among the Top 20 best performance of all time :lmao

[StrengthAndHonor]

I dont know how one can be disappointed with Dirk's 2011 Finals performance tbh :lol One of the best ever maybe better than Whi's imho.
No its not :lol

Dirk shot a huge amount of his points at the line, particularly in Games 4,5 and 6. Nothing impressive about that.

[Malik Hairston]

I agree with almost everything in the OP except the 08 Celtics inclusion, I can't think of a weaker team in the 00's that won it. They needed 7 games to get out of the first two rounds and 6 for the ECF and Finals. Good team but massively underachieved as a superteam. I'd go with the 03 Spurs but would also take the 06 Heat, 04 Pistons, or 09 Lakers over them.

:lol the 2003 Spurs and 2006 Heat are 2 of the worst title teams of all-time, tbh..

The 2004 Pistons were a similar defense to the 2008 Celtics, but much worse offensively, so not sure where that's coming from..

[Brazil]

You need to read. I said his performance in the Finals was disappointing in comparison to his hot streak agains the Lakers and OKC.

He shot 41% compared to 55% against OKC and 57% with the Lakers.

so what ?

he also grabed 4 more rpg than agaisnt okc

your post does not make sense

[Brazil]

Not really. It doesn't even rank among the Top 20 best performance of all time :lmao

name them

[Brazil]

No its not :lol

Dirk shot a huge amount of his points at the line, particularly in Games 4,5 and 6. Nothing impressive about that.

converting them at a rate of .94 is pretty impressive tbh

[RsxPiimp]

name them

Do your own research, it isn't hard to find. :lol

[RsxPiimp]

so what ?

he also grabed 4 more rpg than agaisnt okc

your post does not make sense

You're arguing Dirk shooting 41% down from 57% isn't a disappointment does not make sense either.

Everyone expected him to continue his offensive barrage. Quite the opposite to be honest.

[RsxPiimp]

converting them at a rate of .94 is pretty impressive tbh

He's a career 89% FT shooter. A mark of .94 isn't really all that remarkable, especially during a course of 6 games.

[100%duncan]

Not really. It doesn't even rank among the Top 20 best performance of all time :lmao

Thanks for solidifying yourself as an idiot

[Brazil]

Do your own research, it isn't hard to find. :lol

:lol your capitulation is duly noted

[ambchang]

A misconception

Scoring 27.7 ppg on 48.5% shooting, including 46% from 3 pt land, and 94% from the FT line over 21 games wasn't good enough for you? That's 39 points per 100 possessiosn throughout the entire playoffs, his highest in his playoff career, and even higher than any of his regular season.

He was also #1 in OWS that playoffs (given the amount of games he played), but also had a .210 ws/48.

Him, on his own, pretty much annihilated OKC on offense, scoring 32ppg on 56% shooting.

Dirk was good that playoffs, and it was even better because Dallas didn't really have many other creators on that roster, with Kidd being the only guy you can argue who can still create his own shot.

[RsxPiimp]

Thanks for solidifying yourself as an idiot

You're just another useless poster who resorts to name calling.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Thats in 2012. Lebron's 2013 and 2014 aren't even there. :lol


Fyi. You have no taste in women :lol

[RsxPiimp]

Scoring 27.7 ppg on 48.5% shooting, including 46% from 3 pt land, and 94% from the FT line over 21 games wasn't good enough for you? That's 39 points per 100 possessiosn throughout the entire playoffs, his highest in his playoff career, and even higher than any of his regular season.

He was also #1 in OWS that playoffs (given the amount of games he played), but also had a .210 ws/48.

Him, on his own, pretty much annihilated OKC on offense, scoring 32ppg on 56% shooting.

Dirk was good that playoffs, and it was even better because Dallas didn't really have many other creators on that roster, with Kidd being the only guy you can argue who can still create his own shot.

I reiterated its due to his Finals performance.

[Brazil]

You're arguing Dirk shooting 41% down from 57% isn't a disappointment does not make sense either.

Everyone expected him to continue his offensive barrage. Quite the opposite to be honest.

Again I don't see where the finals he played were a disapointment... he had a TS% of .6 through the POs... if he had kept up from okc he would have been at .8 ? I don't see the disapointing notion.

[ambchang]

I reiterated its due to his Finals performance.

And yet I said Dirk went into video game mode in the playoffs.

[Brazil]

He's a career 89% FT shooter. A mark of .94 isn't really all that remarkable, especially during a course of 6 games.

find another franchise player shooting .94 FTs during the lenght of the POs averaging at least 6 FT pg and putting a .98 in the finals. The fact he set the bar high with an impressive .89 career does not disminish the accomplishment

[RsxPiimp]

Again I don't see where the finals he played were a disapointment... he had a TS% of .6 through the POs... if he had kept up from okc he would have been at .8 ? I don't see the disapointing notion.

41% is disappointing. Im sorry to say. We can go back and forth and wouldn't come up with an amicable agreement. I just don't think his NBA Finals was a noteworthy performance.

[Brazil]

You're just another useless poster who resorts to name calling.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Thats in 2012. Lebron's 2013 and 2014 aren't even there. :lol


Fyi. You have no taste in women :lol

thanks for proving our point

[RsxPiimp]

find another franchise player shooting .94 FTs during the lenght of the POs averaging at least 6 FT pg and putting a .98 in the finals. The fact he set the bar high with an impressive .89 career does not disminish the accomplishment

Sure, Reggie Miller with 97% :lol

[Brazil]

41% is disappointing. Im sorry to say. We can go back and forth and wouldn't come up with an amicable agreement. I just don't think his NBA Finals was a noteworthy performance.

dat one stat could be seen as disappointing but that's one stat...

I don't see in what world a 26 ppg 10 rpg +40 (in +/-) with epic fourth quarters is considered disappointing

[RsxPiimp]

thanks for proving our point

You don't have any...

[Brazil]

Sure, Reggie Miller with 97% :lol

:lol Reggie Miller ? really ? that's all what you got ?

[100%duncan]

You're just another useless poster who resorts to name calling.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

Thats in 2012. Lebron's 2013 and 2014 aren't even there. :lol


Fyi. You have no taste in women :lol

You wanna go discuss shit in life? Ok :lol

Must be tough to get chicks when you look like this http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12644&dateline=1393404597&type=profile

[RsxPiimp]

:lol Reggie Miller ? really ? that's all what you got ?

You were asking for a player that shot a better percentage than Dirk in the Finals in a 6 game series. Verbatim.

I gave it to you.

At you thinking Dirk's FT shooting was an all Time record :lol

[RsxPiimp]

You wanna go discuss shit in life? Ok :lol

Must be tough to get chicks when you look like this http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12644&dateline=1393404597&type=profile

See, things like this is why you're on the worst poster of the month list.

:lmao thinking thats me

[Brazil]

You don't have any...

like Dirk 2011 > Thomas 90 or Billups 04 or Malone 98 or Moses 83

[100%duncan]

See, things like this is why you're on the worst poster of the month list.

:lmao thinking thats me

Trapped :cry

THATS NOT ME GAIZ OMG PLS

[Brazil]

You were asking for a player that shot a better percentage than Dirk in the Finals in a 6 game series. Verbatim.

I gave it to you.

At you thinking Dirk's FT shooting was an all Time record :lol

:lol at you thinking .98 for 7,6 FTAs per game is not impressive

[RsxPiimp]

:lol at you thinking .98 for 7,6 FTAs per game is not impressive

Wow, I can't even talk to you. You're proving yourself pretty bad at this. I said an 89% shooter shooting 94% on a 6 game stretch isnt remarkable.

[Brazil]

You were asking for a player that shot a better percentage than Dirk in the Finals in a 6 game series. Verbatim.

I gave it to you.

At you thinking Dirk's FT shooting was an all Time record :lol

btw props for finding one quick tbh :tu

[Brazil]

Wow, I can't even talk to you. You're proving yourself pretty bad at this. I said an 89% shooter shooting 94% on a 6 game stretch isnt remarkable.

:lol I'm not sure I follow your logic..

what would be remarkable then ? a guy shooting .6 career shooting .94 on a 6 game stretch that would be remarkable ?

does not make any sense

[RsxPiimp]

like Dirk 2011 > Thomas 90 or Billups 04 or Malone 98 or Moses 83

:lol At looking at raw #'s

The per-game averages aren't that eye popping, so to really appreciate Billups' effort, you have to check out the fine print. He scored 105 points with only 57 field goal attempts -- chew on that one for a second. Factoring in his 92.3 percent shooting from the line, his true shooting percentage was 69.5. Plus, in a series that was played at a snail's pace, his per-game stats don't nearly do justice to how well he played.

And Moses malone's 26 ppg and 18 RPG numbers trumps Dirks. Im sure even ambchang would agree.

[Clipper Nation]

You wanna go discuss shit in life? Ok :lol

Must be tough to get chicks when you look like this http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12644&dateline=1393404597&type=profile
:lol

[Brazil]

:lol At looking at raw #'s

The per-game averages aren't that eye popping, so to really appreciate Billups' effort, you have to check out the fine print. He scored 105 points with only 57 field goal attempts -- chew on that one for a second. Factoring in his 92.3 percent shooting from the line, his true shooting percentage was 69.5. Plus, in a series that was played at a snail's pace, his per-game stats don't nearly do justice to how well he played.

And Moses malone's 26 ppg and 18 RPG numbers trumps Dirks. Im sure even ambchang (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=986) would agree.

I just highlighted some tbh Malone

Billups never carried the load the way Dirk did in 2011. 2004 is pretty much a team effort like 2014 spurs.

[RsxPiimp]

:lol

You have no room

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GljwQl_xB50/TauCyDexGII/AAAAAAAAALk/mbun0bbwvUo/s1600/mullet1.jpg

[StrengthAndHonor]

You have no room

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GljwQl_xB50/TauCyDexGII/AAAAAAAAALk/mbun0bbwvUo/s1600/mullet1.jpg


:lol:lol:lol

[Brazil]

You have no room

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GljwQl_xB50/TauCyDexGII/AAAAAAAAALk/mbun0bbwvUo/s1600/mullet1.jpg

:lol

[RsxPiimp]

I just highlighted some tbh Malone

Billups never carried the load the way Dirk did in 2011. 2004 is pretty much a team effort like 2014 spurs.

It's all valid points.

[diego]

eh i think the mavs in 2011 people inflate dirk and minimize the rest of the teams contributions.

Dirk was obviously the main scorer and very effcient, but lets not forget that some guy named jason kidd was running the offense to the tune of 7.3 assists per game and lead the team in +/-, that jason terry had similar efficiency as dirk (just .005 less TS% on his 17.5pts, obviously dirk's 27.7 are much more impressive but terry was a good second scorer that year particularly from 3), chandler was huge on the boards, barea played out of his mind. carlisle was big too, his zone defense helped mask dirk's deficiencies and let his guards and wings take the brunt of the defensive work load, again who would have though that old man kidd would hold his own and then some against kobe, westbrook, wade/lebron.

as for dirk's run, in terms of WS/PER it wasnt that impressive, it wasnt even his best playoffs by those measures. Dont get me wrong dirk was great in 2011, but he wasnt playing by himself out there and its a stretch to say it was the one of the most dominant runs ever. for example 05 amare had more points, more boards and a higher TS%, 08 kg had a higher WS, so did manu in 05, and no one considers those guys to be on par with dirk 2011. its easy to dismiss the rest of the team because on paper/in other years they all sucked, but in reality they did their part and then some.

[Sportstudi]

He's a career 89% FT shooter. A mark of .94 isn't really all that remarkable, especially during a course of 6 games.

He shot .956 in game 4-6 and 1.000 in game 1-3 for a total mark of .978, which is the record (shared with Reggie Miller) for a 6 game series of the finals. Even as the 89% career FT shooter this is pretty remarkable as it happened on the biggest stage possible.

[RsxPiimp]

He shot .956 in game 4-6 and 1.000 in game 1-3 for a total mark of .978, which is the record (shared with Reggie Miller) for a 6 game series of the finals. Even as the 89% career FT shooter this is pretty remarkable as it happened on the biggest stage possible.
Can you tell me how many FT's were attempted frm games 1-3?

I'm not trying to diminish shooting at that percentage, as there were only a couple who maintained that but my position was it isn't remarkable especially from someone who's considered an elite shooter.

[RsxPiimp]

eh i think the mavs in 2011 people inflate dirk and minimize the rest of the teams contributions.

Dirk was obviously the main scorer and very effcient, but lets not forget that some guy named jason kidd was running the offense to the tune of 7.3 assists per game and lead the team in +/-, that jason terry had similar efficiency as dirk (just .005 less TS% on his 17.5pts, obviously dirk's 27.7 are much more impressive but terry was a good second scorer that year particularly from 3), chandler was huge on the boards, barea played out of his mind. carlisle was big too, his zone defense helped mask dirk's deficiencies and let his guards and wings take the brunt of the defensive work load, again who would have though that old man kidd would hold his own and then some against kobe, westbrook, wade/lebron.

as for dirk's run, in terms of WS/PER it wasnt that impressive, it wasnt even his best playoffs by those measures. Dont get me wrong dirk was great in 2011, but he wasnt playing by himself out there and its a stretch to say it was the one of the most dominant runs ever. for example 05 amare had more points, more boards and a higher TS%, 08 kg had a higher WS, so did manu in 05, and no one considers those guys to be on par with dirk 2011. its easy to dismiss the rest of the team because on paper/in other years they all sucked, but in reality they did their part and then some.

This is actually a very solid post. Hope people reads it.

[Sportstudi]

Can you tell me how many FT's were attempted frm games 1-3?

I'm not trying to diminish shooting at that percentage, as there were only a couple who maintained that but my position was it isn't remarkable especially from someone who's considered an elite shooter.

Games 1-3: 24-24

Game 1: 12-12
Game 2: 3-3
Game 3: 9-9

Games 4-6: 21-22

Game 4: 9-10
Game 5: 10-10
Game 6: 2-2

[Sportstudi]

No its not :lol

Dirk shot a huge amount of his points at the line, particularly in Games 4,5 and 6. Nothing impressive about that.

Wrong. See post above.

[Clipper Nation]

You have no room

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GljwQl_xB50/TauCyDexGII/AAAAAAAAALk/mbun0bbwvUo/s1600/mullet1.jpg
Nah, son.... you're definitely this guy, though:

http://i.imgur.com/MI1HlmT.jpg

[RsxPiimp]

Nah, son.... you're definitely this guy, though:

http://i.imgur.com/MI1HlmT.jpg
:lol looks Korean to me bro

[ambchang]

:lol At looking at raw #'s

The per-game averages aren't that eye popping, so to really appreciate Billups' effort, you have to check out the fine print. He scored 105 points with only 57 field goal attempts -- chew on that one for a second. Factoring in his 92.3 percent shooting from the line, his true shooting percentage was 69.5. Plus, in a series that was played at a snail's pace, his per-game stats don't nearly do justice to how well he played.

And Moses malone's 26 ppg and 18 RPG numbers trumps Dirks. Im sure even ambchang would agree.

Don't drag me into this shit pile. I said dirk went ballistic in the playoffs, and you somehow said he wasn't that impressive in the finals, which had little to do with what I originally said.

Dirks finals stats weren't phenomenal, but he was the Mavs offense. That was the impressive thing about him. Jason terry was the only other threat on that team, but he needs dirk to create for him.

As for Moses, simply one of the most underrated players of all time because he didn't win enough titles. That and his inability to speak like a homo sapient.

[Brazil]

diego[/B];7557944]so did manu in 05,

:lol was expecting a Manu reference in dat post... I'm not disappointed even though I thought it would come earlier

for the rest of the post, nobody is saying Mavs roster was shit but as mentioned Dirk was the main scorer by a mile... Kidd was 37 and even though he was still a good distributor, he was a freaking liability on the O end which eased opponent D greatly. Marion was a solid role player but past his prime, he scored the ball not very efficiently. Terry was a solid offensive option, Barea contributed. At the end Chandler was the only other all star of that team for his D presence.

So I'm not sure where people are inflating Dirk...

[ambchang]

eh i think the mavs in 2011 people inflate dirk and minimize the rest of the teams contributions.

Dirk was obviously the main scorer and very effcient, but lets not forget that some guy named jason kidd was running the offense to the tune of 7.3 assists per game and lead the team in +/-, that jason terry had similar efficiency as dirk (just .005 less TS% on his 17.5pts, obviously dirk's 27.7 are much more impressive but terry was a good second scorer that year particularly from 3), chandler was huge on the boards, barea played out of his mind. carlisle was big too, his zone defense helped mask dirk's deficiencies and let his guards and wings take the brunt of the defensive work load, again who would have though that old man kidd would hold his own and then some against kobe, westbrook, wade/lebron.

as for dirk's run, in terms of WS/PER it wasnt that impressive, it wasnt even his best playoffs by those measures. Dont get me wrong dirk was great in 2011, but he wasnt playing by himself out there and its a stretch to say it was the one of the most dominant runs ever. for example 05 amare had more points, more boards and a higher TS%, 08 kg had a higher WS, so did manu in 05, and no one considers those guys to be on par with dirk 2011. its easy to dismiss the rest of the team because on paper/in other years they all sucked, but in reality they did their part and then some.

You have to look at Dirk's accomplishment as compared to his teammates though. He shot at an extremely high efficiency (.609 TS%), high usage (32% usage rate), scored a lot (39.1 pp100, Jason Terry was next at 29.8, a 25% drop), and had the highest OWS (2.7 vs. 2nd placed Terry at 2.1, that's almost a 30% jump), and DWS (tied at 0.9 with Kidd).

Of course his teammates stepped up, it's not like he carried the 87 Clippers to a ring, but Dirk was the offense on the Mavs, and the players was successful around him. Sure there were better playoff performances (Duncan in 03 was pretty much God mode).

The issue with 05 Amare, and 08 Garnett is that they had teammates putting up similar stats (Nash and Pierce/Allen), where they were not there to carry the offense.

Ginobili's 05 run was one of the best over the last little while, it's what made Ginobili such a fan favourite, but still, he had Duncan to take a lot of that credit. Dirk didn't have anyway else. His 3.6 ws was 0.9 ws over Chandler.

[diego]

I admit its hard for me to like dirk, for the same reasons its hard for me to like durant, miller, kobe and those types who get cheap freebies on jumpshots. that plus 06 WCSF and I dont have a lot of love for the guy. but Ive come to respect him, and cheered for him in 2011 when he took out the lakers and the heat.

kevin garnett's 08 run had 4.1 WS, next is allen at 3.1, that is a 1.0 diff. Are we discussing who had worse teammates, who produced more relative to his teammates, or who subjectively was most impressive? its easy to list all the stats for what dirk does on offense, but it conveniently ignores his null contribution on defense.

I agree dirk was great, clearly the best player on his team, not disputing that. But people talk about the 2011 mavs like he did everything, and thats not the case. Brazil just called kidd a liability on O, when he averaged 7.3 assists and 37% from 3 at 5.5 attempts per game most on the team. his 1.9 winshares is more than tony parker had in his finals mvp year in 2007. not saying he deserves finals mvp, but he made big contributions not to mention that he chandler, marion and stevenson were the ones who made carlisle's zone defense work. kidd had 40 steals over the playoffs! that has only happened 48 times in league history. Its easy to say kidd was a 38 year old shell of himself, when in reality he was damn good regardless of his age. The only other players to have 7+ assists, 1.5+ stl, and 36%+ from three minimum 5 attempts for a playoff run are kidd, paul, curry, the glove, iverson and deron williams. Granted kidd has the lowest point total among them, but that is still an exceptional contribution, and none of the other guys did it for more than 13 games, kidd did it for 21 and on average in 5 minutes less. IMO him chandler and terry were as strong a 2nd, 3rd and 4th guy as amare had in 05 (nash, marion and a 23 year old joe johnson), or for that matter howard in 09 (4.5 WS for howard, 1.7 WS difference to 2nd guy lewis, 3rd pietrus 4th turkoglu). I could even make an argument for 2012 durant, even if his 2-4 guys produced a lot (despite all being kids) the rest of the team was utter shit and he had better stats than dirk

dirk is better than amare and howard. but in my opinion his 2011 playoff run is exaggerated. it was great, but not especially so- for that look at shaq in 2000 or MJ or duncan etc.

[ambchang]

Dirk's run in 2011 was impressive not because he did everything, but because of his importance on offense. Other than Kidd, Dirk was the only guy on that team who can really create offense, and Kidd couldn't finish. Terry can finish, but he can't create, so the end result is that Dirk was essentially what the Mavs offense was about.

The more impressive thing is that every body knew that, and every team was trying to stop Dirk because of it, and yet it didn't work, because Dirk still created quality offense despite being heavily guarded.

It's not that the other Mavs players didn't have any contributions, because they obviously did, especially on the defensive end, but it's rare to have a player who can carry an offensively unimpressive team to a title like Dirk did.

[RsxPiimp]

Don't drag me into this shit pile. I said dirk went ballistic in the playoffs, and you somehow said he wasn't that impressive in the finals, which had little to do with what I originally said.

Dirks finals stats weren't phenomenal, but he was the Mavs offense. That was the impressive thing about him. Jason terry was the only other threat on that team, but he needs dirk to create for him.

As for Moses, simply one of the most underrated players of all time because he didn't win enough titles. That and his inability to speak like a homo sapient.
You don't agree that Malone's 26 and 18 Finals series isn't better than Dirk's 2011 Finals run?

[RsxPiimp]

Don't drag me into this shit pile. I said dirk went ballistic in the playoffs, and you somehow said he wasn't that impressive in the finals, which had little to do with what I originally said.

Dirks finals stats weren't phenomenal, but he was the Mavs offense. That was the impressive thing about him. Jason terry was the only other threat on that team, but he needs dirk to create for him.

As for Moses, simply one of the most underrated players of all time because he didn't win enough titles. That and his inability to speak like a homo sapient.
You don't agree that Malone's 26 and 18 Finals series isn't better than Dirk's 2011 Finals run?

[ambchang]

You don't agree that Malone's 26 and 18 Finals series isn't better than Dirk's 2011 Finals run?

Oh no, I agree it's better. Dirk's 2011 finals wasn't extraordinary or anything, his 2011 playoff run was though.

[diego]

Dirk's run in 2011 was impressive not because he did everything, but because of his importance on offense. Other than Kidd, Dirk was the only guy on that team who can really create offense, and Kidd couldn't finish. Terry can finish, but he can't create, so the end result is that Dirk was essentially what the Mavs offense was about.

The more impressive thing is that every body knew that, and every team was trying to stop Dirk because of it, and yet it didn't work, because Dirk still created quality offense despite being heavily guarded.

It's not that the other Mavs players didn't have any contributions, because they obviously did, especially on the defensive end, but it's rare to have a player who can carry an offensively unimpressive team to a title like Dirk did.

agree to disagree. fail to see what made that team so offensively unimpressive. kidd and terry were known for being good offensive players, they had a lot of shooters (the aforementioned plus stojakovic, barea, and stevenson), chandler while limited could finish inside and marion despite his ugly ass shot was always known as a two way player. Its not like they played 4 on 5 with nothing but defensive specialists surrounding dirk. Durant in 2012 scored more points more efficiently with lower assisted FG% both 2p and 3p (dirk .485/.957, durant .42/.756), nobody talks about his 2012 run like they do dirk in 11. He had 4.0 win shares, next highest was harden at 2.6 and westbrook at 2.1, ibaka at 1.8, all of his teammates combined for 8.8; dirk had 3.6, then chandler at 2.7, terry at 2.6, kidd at 1.9, the combined total 11.1- in other words, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys for dirk did more than durants, same for 2 through 12. Seems like because durant's teammates had big names (despite never having accomplished anything) its assumed they did more. Or maybe because the mavs won people needed a narrative, and because durant lost nobody cares. clutchness definitely should count for something

[ambchang]

agree to disagree. fail to see what made that team so offensively unimpressive. kidd and terry were known for being good offensive players, they had a lot of shooters (the aforementioned plus stojakovic, barea, and stevenson), chandler while limited could finish inside and marion despite his ugly ass shot was always known as a two way player. Its not like they played 4 on 5 with nothing but defensive specialists surrounding dirk. Durant in 2012 scored more points more efficiently with lower assisted FG% both 2p and 3p (dirk .485/.957, durant .42/.756), nobody talks about his 2012 run like they do dirk in 11. He had 4.0 win shares, next highest was harden at 2.6 and westbrook at 2.1, ibaka at 1.8, all of his teammates combined for 8.8; dirk had 3.6, then chandler at 2.7, terry at 2.6, kidd at 1.9, the combined total 11.1- in other words, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys for dirk did more than durants, same for 2 through 12. Seems like because durant's teammates had big names (despite never having accomplished anything) its assumed they did more. Or maybe because the mavs won people needed a narrative, and because durant lost nobody cares. clutchness definitely should count for something

It was most definitely because dirk won. Rightly or wrongly, players only get credit when bring team wins it all. Durant didn't so his accomplishments became a footnote. I agree it's dumb, but that's how it goes.

But my point isn't that the other Mavs players were offensively inept, it's that they can't create. There are big differences between the two. A player can still score a lot of points without being a creator, where Cedric ceballos was a great example. Dirk was pretty much the only creator on that team, whereas Westbrook and harden were both creators on that thunder team.

[diego]

ok, jason kidd hall of fame point guard top 3 in assists and steals, most assists by +30 and most steals by +5 in the '11 playoffs, is not a creator. barea and terry neither. (kidd + barea combined for 10.7 apg, kidd + terry for 10.5)
durant had less of his shots assisted but westbrook and harden are better creators (9.3 apg combined).

I know assists dont tell the whole story, I agree teams could focus more on dirk because there werent as many scorers alongside him, but its a huge stretch to say there were no creators on the mavs.

agree to disagree.

[ambchang]

ok, jason kidd hall of fame point guard top 3 in assists and steals, most assists by +30 and most steals by +5 in the '11 playoffs, is not a creator. barea and terry neither. (kidd + barea combined for 10.7 apg, kidd + terry for 10.5)
durant had less of his shots assisted but westbrook and harden are better creators (9.3 apg combined).

I know assists dont tell the whole story, I agree teams could focus more on dirk because there werent as many scorers alongside him, but its a huge stretch to say there were no creators on the mavs.

agree to disagree.

Kidd was at the very tail end of his career. That's like saying Duncan had a lot of help in 03 because he had Robinson on that team.

Terry and barrea vs Westbrook and harden. Need I say more?

Assist is a very unreliable stat, as there are known cases of stat inflation for assists, and a creator doesn't necessary lead to a score or an assist.

[Jenks]

:lol the 2003 Spurs and 2006 Heat are 2 of the worst title teams of all-time, tbh..

The 2004 Pistons were a similar defense to the 2008 Celtics, but much worse offensively, so not sure where that's coming from..
The idea that the 2008 Hawks would take the 03 Spurs or 06 Heat to 7 games is fucking hilarious.

[ambchang]

:lol the 2003 Spurs and 2006 Heat are 2 of the worst title teams of all-time, tbh..

The 2004 Pistons were a similar defense to the 2008 Celtics, but much worse offensively, so not sure where that's coming from..

I'm very interested around the basis for those claims. What type of metrics did you use?

[Malik Hairston]

I'm very interested around the basis for those claims. What type of metrics did you use?

Regarding the 2003 Spurs and Heat? Or the Pistons?..

If it's regarding the former 2, it's pretty easy to prove their relative weakness among NBA title teams, tbh..

[jimbo]

Lol, that is just wrong. What did Dirk when he played vs. Denver in 2009 as during the series his back-then girlfriend turned out to be a fraud? He dropped 34.4/11.6/4.0 on 53/39/92. So, stop trying to use this crap as an excuse for Pau. Pau shit the bed and struggled offensively and defensively, mainly against Dirk.

Pau is mentally weak. Who cares? It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't MVPau that whole postseason. He clearly showed against the Hornets that he was playing like shit because of emotional issues, the Mavs didn't do anything special to stop him, so they don't get the credit for stopping him.

It's different from when they stopped Lebron. He had been killing it that postseason, then ran into a brick wall vs y'all.



You're either a troll or completely retarded. While I think that the 14 Spurs would likely win that matchup (they were too deep, a hell of a team), the 11 Mavs were much better than you think. Dirk played well in 2014 overall given his age (in the regular season, he didn't play that great in the playoffs though, that's for sure), but he was much, much better in 2011. I don't think that Splitter would be able to shut down 2011 Dirk, neither would be Diaw. The Spurs would win it as they were the better team, but to think that it would be an easy win series for the Spurs is downright delusional. Maybe you should switch your fandom and join Lakersground as you have already all the tools needed to be a successful poster over there (being completely delusional and beyond retarded).

Damn you are so fucking mad right now.

The Mavs showed in that postseason that they could

1) Stop crippleball against the Blazers
2) Stop Kobe isoball + MVPussyball & immature Bynumball against the Lakers
3) Stop isoball and monkeyball against the Thunder
4) Stop isoball/non-shooting Lebron and monkeyball against the Heat

Those Mavs never ran into anything close to what we'd quantify as a "good" offensive system in 2013. Those old men would get wrecked by the kind of ball movement the '12-13' Heat or 13/14 Spurs showed. This was the first time we've seen new age offensive systems with great defenses.

That Mavs offense doesn't scare me one bit. The Spurs have the manpower to attempt to defend Dirk 1 on 1, and Pop is the guy who'll force him to score 50 by himself every game to beat us. Between Tiago and Tim he'll always have at least a competent defender on him. He'd just shoot over Diaw or get to the line vs him, so I can't see Diaw doing a whole lot in that series. And then I'm not afraid of any of your 3 point shooters or Terry if Dirk is being played 1 on 1.

So cliffs:

-Mavs' resume is overrated partly because of the name value of the opponents vs what they actually were, but mostly because I consider it a different era of basketball.
-You never played a coach as good as Pop in the 2011 run. Closest was an "i don't give a fuck, i'm retiring" Phil. After that you had Scott Brooks and pre-non retarded Spo :lol.
-Modern NBA offenses > old era stuff from the Mavs (esp when ran to perfection like the Spurs did this postseason...)
-The Spurs are better equipped to defend Dirk than any team in the 10s.

But you know what, I'll cut you a break. Spurs in 5

[ambchang]

Regarding the 2003 Spurs and Heat? Or the Pistons?..

If it's regarding the former 2, it's pretty easy to prove their relative weakness among NBA title teams, tbh..

Im thinking all the claims.

Is it compared across all champions or relative to peers?

[Killakobe81]

Im thinking all the claims.

Is it compared across all champions or relative to peers?

Amb, you made some excellent points with pertinent stats to back up your thoughts on Dirk's run. I wanted to add a couple points (not directed at you) since I can kicked off the whole DIrk was a bit overrated and the finals was not that impressive.

1. Part of what was impressive about Dirk in the Finals was the opponent. I know it's hard but go back to the summer before that 2011 Dirk run. Everyone here was pretty much crowning the Heat. (I initially doubted them but after they got hot to close the season I could not see them losing). As amazing as the 2014 thrashing of the heat was you could argue Dirk putting up the numbers he did against a super team like Miami with prime Lebron, Wade & Bosh (Wade was not a TOSB) was pretty damn impressive for the reasons you mentoned.

2. That is why watching the games is so key. Sure Dirk did not shoot it as well as he did in the playoffs. But as many said when needed he hit clutch shots and especially clutch Ft's. Of course that is impressive and important FT shooting down the stretch is why they lost in 2005. shaky Ft shooting was also a huge factor in the Heat beating the spurs in 2013. But again when Dirk made shots and his impact on geting open looks for his role players was very impressive.

3. Honestly what did in the Heat in 2011 was Terry finding a rhythm and Kidd, Barea, Peja even Lincoln knocking down open shots. Before Terry started taking trash and backing it up The Heat controlled that series despite how Dirk was playing. And remember dirk was sick in the Finals as well. Mavs in 2011 did what the Spurs did this year they made Spo's team pay for trapping by hitting 3's at high rate. Spurs just did it better and more efficiently. But when guys like stevenson and even Kidd are hitting 3's at a higher rate then you expect based on their carrer numbers tough to beat the Mavs. Plus Rc is probably the 2nd best coach to Pop ... Mavs will rarely lose becaus ethey are outcoached and Spo was new to the big stage.

4. Mavs were a realy good team. And I think should have been giving the opportunity to defend their title, but if your own owner thinks that the team was somewhwat "lightning in a bottle" really how can they be compared to the 2014 Spurs? I know in these discussions we are talking about the Mavs at their absolute best, but which team is more likely to be able to replicate their success against the other? the 2014 Spurs who made backtoback finals, has big 3 plus a rising 4th? and a strong favorite for next year or the one and done Mavs of 2011? I think a matchup of the 2011 Mavs vs the 2008 Celts is a better matchup, tbh. I just dont see how the 2011 Mavs beat the 2014 Spurs. I think the series would be competive (no blowouts) because they are similar in certain ways but I still think the Spurs would win in 6 or less.

[diego]

Kidd was at the very tail end of his career. That's like saying Duncan had a lot of help in 03 because he had Robinson on that team.

Terry and barrea vs Westbrook and harden. Need I say more?

Assist is a very unreliable stat, as there are known cases of stat inflation for assists, and a creator doesn't necessary lead to a score or an assist.

robinson in 03 didnt lead the ENTIRE LEAGUE in anything that playoff run the way kidd did in assists and steals in '11 (or chandler in total rebounds for that matter), he didnt even lead his team in anything . kidd had more assist and steals than lebron james in the playoffs, same number of games 178 minutes less.

Just because they were both at the end of their careers doesnt make their contributions at all comparable, which has been precisely my point from the beginning- that kidd's contribution is minimized because of his age.


and its not terry and barea vs westbrook and harden. Its kidd and terry vs westbrook and harden. you are just going by names and marketing though, there isnt some chasm between them. in fact when they played in 2011, Id go as far as to say that kidd outplayed westbrook. he had a crucial steal on him at the end of game 4 (more than double westbrook for the series, also more rebounds for the series), westbrook had more than twice as many TO and nearly half the assists, he shot a dismal .478 TS, and had a -18 net ortg / drtg while kidd was +15. But its SOOO outlandish to say kidd > westbrook, because westbrook scored 23+ and kidd less than 10.

And now assists are an unreliable stat. the same can be said for rebounds, steals, blocks, fouls, basically anything that isnt a made basket. I guess kobe is top 10 all time after all, he was such a great scorer and everything else is so unreliable and difficult to quantify. :rolleyes

[Brazil]

robinson in 03 didnt lead the ENTIRE LEAGUE in anything that playoff run the way kidd did in assists and steals in '11 (or chandler in total rebounds for that matter), he didnt even lead his team in anything . kidd had more assist and steals than lebron james in the playoffs, same number of games 178 minutes less.

Just because they were both at the end of their careers doesnt make their contributions at all comparable, which has been precisely my point from the beginning- that kidd's contribution is minimized because of his age.


and its not terry and barea vs westbrook and harden. Its kidd and terry vs westbrook and harden. you are just going by names and marketing though, there isnt some chasm between them. in fact when they played in 2011, Id go as far as to say that kidd outplayed westbrook. he had a crucial steal on him at the end of game 4 (more than double westbrook for the series, also more rebounds for the series), westbrook had more than twice as many TO and nearly half the assists, he shot a dismal .478 TS, and had a -18 net ortg / drtg while kidd was +15. But its SOOO outlandish to say kidd > westbrook, because westbrook scored 23+ and kidd less than 10.

And now assists are an unreliable stat. the same can be said for rebounds, steals, blocks, fouls, basically anything that isnt a made basket. I guess kobe is top 10 all time after all, he was such a great scorer and everything else is so unreliable and difficult to quantify. :rolleyes

:lol not sure what kind of agenda you have tbh

Kidd was passing the ball, creating for the others and hitting the 3s now he was also a headache on mavs offense because of his incapacity to go to the rim and shoot JS, his FG% on 2 pointers were bad. More problematic on dat is the fact he regularly passed these open 2s the defense was giving him which was breaking Mavs O resulting some contested shots with clock running down by Terry, Dirk or even Marion.

Except for Dirk, 2 3s per game from Kidd, the only reliable O production came from Terry... that's about it. If you play the mavs in 2011, what kind of focus on D you need to have ? you close on 3 pts shooters and then we just try to stop Dirk...

But now go ahead and try to explain Kidd and Terry somehow is better than Westbrook and Harden...

[Sportstudi]

Pau is mentally weak. Who cares? It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't MVPau that whole postseason. He clearly showed against the Hornets that he was playing like shit because of emotional issues, the Mavs didn't do anything special to stop him, so they don't get the credit for stopping him.

It's different from when they stopped Lebron. He had been killing it that postseason, then ran into a brick wall vs y'all.

Damn you are so fucking mad right now.

The Mavs showed in that postseason that they could

1) Stop crippleball against the Blazers
2) Stop Kobe isoball + MVPussyball & immature Bynumball against the Lakers
3) Stop isoball and monkeyball against the Thunder
4) Stop isoball/non-shooting Lebron and monkeyball against the Heat

Those Mavs never ran into anything close to what we'd quantify as a "good" offensive system in 2013. Those old men would get wrecked by the kind of ball movement the '12-13' Heat or 13/14 Spurs showed. This was the first time we've seen new age offensive systems with great defenses.

That Mavs offense doesn't scare me one bit. The Spurs have the manpower to attempt to defend Dirk 1 on 1, and Pop is the guy who'll force him to score 50 by himself every game to beat us. Between Tiago and Tim he'll always have at least a competent defender on him. He'd just shoot over Diaw or get to the line vs him, so I can't see Diaw doing a whole lot in that series. And then I'm not afraid of any of your 3 point shooters or Terry if Dirk is being played 1 on 1.

So cliffs:

-Mavs' resume is overrated partly because of the name value of the opponents vs what they actually were, but mostly because I consider it a different era of basketball.
-You never played a coach as good as Pop in the 2011 run. Closest was an "i don't give a fuck, i'm retiring" Phil. After that you had Scott Brooks and pre-non retarded Spo :lol.
-Modern NBA offenses > old era stuff from the Mavs (esp when ran to perfection like the Spurs did this postseason...)
-The Spurs are better equipped to defend Dirk than any team in the 10s.

But you know what, I'll cut you a break. Spurs in 5


Thanks for proving my thoughts about you. Really, join Lakersground. Delusional idiots galore. You should feel like home over there. I rest my case, I don't see any sense in arguing with a braindead idiot.

[Sportstudi]

:lol not sure what kind of agenda you have tbh

Kidd was passing the ball, creating for the others and hitting the 3s now he was also a headache on mavs offense because of his incapacity to go to the rim and shoot JS, his FG% on 2 pointers were bad. More problematic on dat is the fact he regularly passed these open 2s the defense was giving him which was breaking Mavs O resulting some contested shots with clock running down by Terry, Dirk or even Marion.

Except for Dirk, 2 3s per game from Kidd, the only reliable O production came from Terry... that's about it. If you play the mavs in 2011, what kind of focus on D you need to have ? you close on 3 pts shooters and then we just try to stop Dirk...

But now go ahead and try to explain Kidd and Terry somehow is better than Westbrook and Harden...

For me it seems like he has tremendous problems to give Dirk the props he deserves. Seems like he can't accept the fact that Dallas isn't the stepchild of Texas anymore and that Dirk led his team to a ring as the main man.

[100%duncan]

For me it seems like he has tremendous problems to give Dirk the props he deserves. Seems like he can't accept the fact that Dallas isn't the stepchild of Texas anymore and that Dirk led his team to a ring as the main man.

Lots of posters hating on your '11 mavs imho :cry we got yer back

[Brazil]

For me it seems like he has tremendous problems to give Dirk the props he deserves. Seems like he can't accept the fact that Dallas isn't the stepchild of Texas anymore and that Dirk led his team to a ring as the main man.


he is probably a manu > dirk guy so if he can discredit a bit dirk's achievements that's all good for his church I guess :lol

[ambchang]

robinson in 03 didnt lead the ENTIRE LEAGUE in anything that playoff run the way kidd did in assists and steals in '11 (or chandler in total rebounds for that matter), he didnt even lead his team in anything . kidd had more assist and steals than lebron james in the playoffs, same number of games 178 minutes less.

Just because they were both at the end of their careers doesnt make their contributions at all comparable, which has been precisely my point from the beginning- that kidd's contribution is minimized because of his age.


and its not terry and barea vs westbrook and harden. Its kidd and terry vs westbrook and harden. you are just going by names and marketing though, there isnt some chasm between them. in fact when they played in 2011, Id go as far as to say that kidd outplayed westbrook. he had a crucial steal on him at the end of game 4 (more than double westbrook for the series, also more rebounds for the series), westbrook had more than twice as many TO and nearly half the assists, he shot a dismal .478 TS, and had a -18 net ortg / drtg while kidd was +15. But its SOOO outlandish to say kidd > westbrook, because westbrook scored 23+ and kidd less than 10.

And now assists are an unreliable stat. the same can be said for rebounds, steals, blocks, fouls, basically anything that isnt a made basket. I guess kobe is top 10 all time after all, he was such a great scorer and everything else is so unreliable and difficult to quantify. :rolleyes

Leadinng anything in playoffs is misleading because the number of games played. Essentially, you are the best of the two finalist teams because those teams generally play the most games. And comparing Kidd, who is a PG, to James, who is a SF, in assists, is about as inaccurate as possible. Not to mention they faced off totally different teams (where as in the regular season you still face off the same 29 teams, only in different number of times), and the comparison is just moot.

To top it off, Lebron James, as a SF, actually had more assists per game than Kidd did.

Robinson an important part of Spurs defense in 03, much like Kidd's role on offense with the Mavs in 11. But Robinson still wasn't even close to the main reason the Spurs won it all in 03, it was because of Duncan, much like it was because of Dirk in 11 while every other Mav was a distant second. I am not sure if Kidd is your dad, but nobody is saying that he didn't contribute, just that his contribution, as the second best offensive creator of the team, was miles away from Dirk. Dirk in 11 was the Mavs offense. Only 48.5% of his 2 pters were assisted, and that would rank him #8 out of the 12 Mavs in the playoffs, while he scored an amazing 39.1pp100.

You want to comapre Kidd an Terry to Westbrook and Haren? Sure. I just have a problem that you are somehow dismissing the scoring portion of it as some soft of minor statistics.

Harden had a ORtg of 130 in that series, while Kidd had a 121. Westbrook stunk with 99, but Terry himself was at 101.

In that series, Dirk had a gamescore of 23.5, second was kidd at 14.1. Terry #6 on the Mavs at 8.4. Compare that to OKC, where Durant had a 19.7 gamescore and westrbrook and harden had 13.2 and 12.8.

And assists have been widely known as an extremely unreliable stat, where numbers were inflated by the score keepers all the time. Rebounds, steals, blocks and fouls are not unreliable, they happened when they happened. Assists are oftentime counted as assists by the home score keepers to inflat numbers.

Also, a creator who passed the ball to another player, who then proceed to pass the ball to the third player do not get credit of the assist, despite the fact that the first player created the lay to begin with.

Finally, answer me this, was the 2011 Mavs offense built entirely around Dirk? Yes or no? The Heat offense was built around Wade in 06 and Lebron in 13, 03 Spurs was built around Duncan, 3peat lakers were built around Shaq. Dirk was simply hauling that 11 Mavs offense through the playoffs like those other players. The only difference is Lebron had Wade, 06 Heat sucked, and Duncan's 03 playoff run was historical, much like Dirk's 11 run.

[scanry]

:lol looks Korean to me bro

Looks Chinese dude. Koreans are usually shorter and dress pretty well tbh. Them Korean women on the other hand are pretty.

http://chhin.wordpress.com/files/2006/01/79205426_713d91eab2.jpg

[scanry]

For me it seems like he has tremendous problems to give Dirk the props he deserves. Seems like he can't accept the fact that Dallas isn't the stepchild of Texas anymore and that Dirk led his team to a ring as the main man.

Dirk arguably had the best offensive series (against OKC) since Shaq in 2002 finals. He was hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.

[jimbo]

:cry

Should have told the NBA to be better back then. 2011 was a pretty damn weak year tbh...

Lakers were dead.
Celtics were dying and got Lebron'd.
Spurs were gimmicky.
Heat -> ISOball + transition
Thunder -> ISOball + transition

[jimbo]

Dirk arguably had the best offensive series (against OKC) since Shaq in 2002 finals. He was hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.

2009 Lebron vs the Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dirk's OKC series

Those numbers were just unreal...

[Ghazi]

Lakers were not dead in 2011, the Mavs made them look dead. the Thunder had an incredibly talented roster, although young. the Heat were not transitioning, they were a really good team that year.

[jimbo]

The heart of their team was neutered by his girlfriend. Without MVPau they went from a repeating team to getting beat twice by CP3's Hornets :lol.

I'm sure if Dirk broke his foot and only averaged 13 ppg Mavfan would be coming up with excuses on excuses. (And yes i'm equating Dirk breaking his foot to Pau having his heart broken. He's a sensitive soul.)

And I didn't mean transition as in they were in a transitional period, but instead from where their offense came from. The Heat were a really good defensive team, but they were still pretty bad w/ regards to playing playoff offense.

Tbh the most impressive thing the Mavs did was stifle the Heat so much that it made everyone realize "shit, we need to actually spread the floor."

[Phillip]

he is probably a manu > dirk guy so if he can discredit a bit dirk's achievements that's all good for his church I guess :lol

:lol

[diego]

Leadinng anything in playoffs is misleading because the number of games played. Essentially, you are the best of the two finalist teams because those teams generally play the most games. And comparing Kidd, who is a PG, to James, who is a SF, in assists, is about as inaccurate as possible. Not to mention they faced off totally different teams (where as in the regular season you still face off the same 29 teams, only in different number of times), and the comparison is just moot.

To top it off, Lebron James, as a SF, actually had more assists per game than Kidd did.

First off, Lebron james has 123 assists in 21 games/922 minutes, kidd 153 in 21 games/744 minutes. Kidd assisted more and at a higher rate, there's no way around that. Of course Lebron is a SF and kidd is a PG, of course Lebron is better than kidd- I listed him because he's second and played the same number of games, and because one of the things he is known for is being a great playmaker who just happened to be entering his prime, who can take advantage of his shot making ability to create for others. Likewise, jason kidd is known for being a fantastic floor general who knows how to control the flow of the game and set teammates up, his lack of scoring never impeded that. Its still a notable feat that has only happened 48 times in league history- nobody had 153 assists in 2013, 2009, 2004, 2001, and so on. perhaps some of those years the finalists played less games, perhaps its not the same to do it over 5 games vs 20+. Either way the only players who had a higher APG in 2011 were Paul (6 games) Rondo (9) and Rose (16)- thats elite company for a 38 year old point guard.




Robinson an important part of Spurs defense in 03, much like Kidd's role on offense with the Mavs in 11. But Robinson still wasn't even close to the main reason the Spurs won it all in 03, it was because of Duncan, much like it was because of Dirk in 11 while every other Mav was a distant second. I am not sure if Kidd is your dad, but nobody is saying that he didn't contribute, just that his contribution, as the second best offensive creator of the team, was miles away from Dirk. Dirk in 11 was the Mavs offense. Only 48.5% of his 2 pters were assisted, and that would rank him #8 out of the 12 Mavs in the playoffs, while he scored an amazing 39.1pp100.


David robinson played a solid role for the 03 spurs manning the paint and defending. jason kidd ran the offense, defended very well (it was one of the storylines of the playoffs, him checking kobe, westbrook and wade), and did the exact opposite of brazil's rajon rondo comparison by shooting the 3 pointer beyond his usual level and making defenses pay for cheating off him. he lead his team for 3s taken and 3s made, despite having 2nd coming of jesus dirk playing next to him (6th in percentage behind dirk, terry stevenson and stojakovic- thats a lot of shooters). Im not kidd's agent or relative but his play / role is being diminished, he did more than robinson, who played 12 minutes less per game by the way.




You want to comapre Kidd an Terry to Westbrook and Haren? Sure. I just have a problem that you are somehow dismissing the scoring portion of it as some soft of minor statistics.

Harden had a ORtg of 130 in that series, while Kidd had a 121. Westbrook stunk with 99, but Terry himself was at 101.

In that series, Dirk had a gamescore of 23.5, second was kidd at 14.1. Terry #6 on the Mavs at 8.4. Compare that to OKC, where Durant had a 19.7 gamescore and westrbrook and harden had 13.2 and 12.8.



And assists have been widely known as an extremely unreliable stat, where numbers were inflated by the score keepers all the time. Rebounds, steals, blocks and fouls are not unreliable, they happened when they happened. Assists are oftentime counted as assists by the home score keepers to inflat numbers.

Also, a creator who passed the ball to another player, who then proceed to pass the ball to the third player do not get credit of the assist, despite the fact that the first player created the lay to begin with.

Outside of made baskets all stats have human error. There are a bunch of plays that dont make it to the boxscore. you posted okc's top 3 players game scores, 19.7, 13.2, 12.8. The mavs best three are 23.5, 14.1, 12.2. By my math dirk's next two did more than durants. My point is is that kidd produced at a level closer to a westbrook/harden than a 03 robinson, and i think it stands.



Finally, answer me this, was the 2011 Mavs offense built entirely around Dirk? Yes or no? The Heat offense was built around Wade in 06 and Lebron in 13, 03 Spurs was built around Duncan, 3peat lakers were built around Shaq. Dirk was simply hauling that 11 Mavs offense through the playoffs like those other players. The only difference is Lebron had Wade, 06 Heat sucked, and Duncan's 03 playoff run was historical, much like Dirk's 11 run.


I've already acknowledged my bias against dirk, that i rooted for the mavs anyway in 2011, that he was clearly the best player on his team and had a very good run, he scored a ton efficiently and he was clutch. My argument is that a lot of his cast gets undervalued for their contributions, basically because most of them played above their heads and that gets forgotten. I dont think duncans cast in 03 played quite as well as dirk's in 11(I do remember the kerr and sjax 3 pt barrages), and I think duncan did much more (twice as much you could say considering defense) and thus i dont think dirk 2011 is on the same level of a duncan 03.

[scanry]

2009 Lebron vs the Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dirk's OKC series

Those numbers were just unreal...

Dirk was hitting daggers especially in the 4th quarters against the Thunder. He was also unconscious with his one legged fadeaway jumpers and crazy FG% efficiency. Lebron also shot a lot more free throws tbh.

[ambchang]

First off, Lebron james has 123 assists in 21 games/922 minutes, kidd 153 in 21 games/744 minutes. Kidd assisted more and at a higher rate, there's no way around that. Of course Lebron is a SF and kidd is a PG, of course Lebron is better than kidd- I listed him because he's second and played the same number of games, and because one of the things he is known for is being a great playmaker who just happened to be entering his prime, who can take advantage of his shot making ability to create for others. Likewise, jason kidd is known for being a fantastic floor general who knows how to control the flow of the game and set teammates up, his lack of scoring never impeded that. Its still a notable feat that has only happened 48 times in league history- nobody had 153 assists in 2013, 2009, 2004, 2001, and so on. perhaps some of those years the finalists played less games, perhaps its not the same to do it over 5 games vs 20+. Either way the only players who had a higher APG in 2011 were Paul (6 games) Rondo (9) and Rose (16)- thats elite company for a 38 year old point guard.

My bad, looked up the 09-10 stats of Lebron instead.

However, the point still stands, Kidd finished 4th in the playoff assists per game that year. That's a sharp drop from his previous years, where he routinely finished in the top 3 with higher averages.

Yes, it is elite for a 38 year old PG, and it's nice that you have to put that age caveat in because both you and I know it's nothing that's overly special for a PG in his prime. It's only impressive when you put his age in context, which goes back to the original point, Dirk didn't get the type of offensive support on a championship team that top dogs on championship teams usually get. A 38-year old point guard who puts up 7 assists, scores 9 ppg on 40% shooting and shoots 1.4 FTA is not consistent offensive help. If someone who has 0.9 ws in the entire playoffs is your second best offensive creator, you are in trouble.



David robinson played a solid role for the 03 spurs manning the paint and defending. jason kidd ran the offense, defended very well (it was one of the storylines of the playoffs, him checking kobe, westbrook and wade), and did the exact opposite of brazil's rajon rondo comparison by shooting the 3 pointer beyond his usual level and making defenses pay for cheating off him. he lead his team for 3s taken and 3s made, despite having 2nd coming of jesus dirk playing next to him (6th in percentage behind dirk, terry stevenson and stojakovic- thats a lot of shooters). Im not kidd's agent or relative but his play / role is being diminished, he did more than robinson, who played 12 minutes less per game by the way.

Diminished in what way? Outside of Stephen Jackson/Tony Parker/Manu Ginobili in 2003, Shaq in 2001, and Vernon Maxwell in 1994, I can't think of a worst 2nd best offensive creator on a championship team.

And no, I am not talking about him on defense, the entire case of Dirk's incredible 2011 run was the way he carried the Mavs offense, scoring clutch bucket after clutch bucket when the opposition is set out to stop him.


Outside of made baskets all stats have human error. There are a bunch of plays that dont make it to the boxscore. you posted okc's top 3 players game scores, 19.7, 13.2, 12.8. The mavs best three are 23.5, 14.1, 12.2. By my math dirk's next two did more than durants. My point is is that kidd produced at a level closer to a westbrook/harden than a 03 robinson, and i think it stands.

In the 4 series in 2003, Robinson had game scores of 11.9, 5.1, 5.1 and 9.7. (average 7.95)

Kidd in the 4 series in 2011, had game scores of 8.0, 14.1, 7.1, and 12.5 (average 10.4)

Westbrook and Harden, in the 3 series in 2011, had game scores of 13.2/12.8, 16.3/12.9, and 15.1/9.4 (average 14.9/11.7)

So, Dirk's best 2nd option, had an average gmscore (I know this shouldn't be used this way, but I can't really calculate the gmscore for the entire playoffs without the raw data) was 2.45 better than Duncan's 3rd or 4th best in 2003), and 1.3 worst than the third option and 4.5 worst than the 2nd option on a Durant team that didn't even win a championship. And no, Harden's and Westbrook's average gmscore has a bigger difference with Kidd's gmscore vs. the Robinson gmscore.


I've already acknowledged my bias against dirk, that i rooted for the mavs anyway in 2011, that he was clearly the best player on his team and had a very good run, he scored a ton efficiently and he was clutch. My argument is that a lot of his cast gets undervalued for their contributions, basically because most of them played above their heads and that gets forgotten. I dont think duncans cast in 03 played quite as well as dirk's in 11(I do remember the kerr and sjax 3 pt barrages), and I think duncan did much more (twice as much you could say considering defense) and thus i dont think dirk 2011 is on the same level of a duncan 03.

Who said Dirk's 11 playoff was on the same level of Duncan's 03 playoff run? Duncan's 03, Hakeems 94, and Dirk's 11 playoff runs were a few of the rare runs that had a superstar carry the entire team's offense to a championship, despite being the obvious point of focus for the opposition defense. It happened 3 times over a span of 20 years.

Obviously, Hakeem and Duncan manned the defense as well, but Dirk's offensive output in the 2011 playoff run was one of the best in the history of the league.

[jimbo]

Dirk was hitting daggers especially in the 4th quarters against the Thunder. He was also unconscious with his one legged fadeaway jumpers and crazy FG% efficiency. Lebron also shot a lot more free throws tbh.

Lebrun had one of his more iconic game winners against the Magic...that buzzer beating 3.

And we'll see plenty of players hit daggers in the 4th again

Whos the next player to average 38.5 8.2 8 in a playoff series?

[jimbo]

...and crazy field goal efficiency? :lol he only shot 55.7%. I'm 100% sure lebron has had a series that has beaten that from the last couple years. I'll look it up later.