Can Kyle Anderson replace Manu?

[Cklbmk]

I can see him filling Manu's role off the bench in a few years. Play creator and clutch.

He strikes me as someone whos gonna be clutch

I could see a lineup like Danny Green - Beli/Leonard - Slowmo- Diaw/Duncan/Leonard - Splitter having insane defense and good offense

[dabom]

:lol

[Brunodf]

Solid 4/10 tbh

[Proxy]

:drunk

[TheyCallMePro]

Umm...

[dabom]

I should start my "Can kyle anderson replace tony parker?" thread.

[SpurPadre]

Wow, people can't wait until they see him actually play a regular season game before they start making threads like this? It wasn't long ago when De Culo was drafted and was being called the next Manu and looked how terrible he turned out to be.

[SpursFan86]

Don't think anyone will ever fully replace Manu tbh. A player of his caliber coming off the bench is practically unheard of.

[Russ]

No, but if there was an "Anti-Manu," KA could easily replace that guy. :)

[cd98]

Manu is a unique player. Bill Simmons once said there will be 100 Dwayne Wades before there's another Manu.

[Obstructed_View]

Wow, people can't wait until they see him actually play a regular season game before they start making threads like this? It wasn't long ago when De Culo was drafted and was being called the next Manu and looked how terrible he turned out to be.

I think those observations faded soon after Nando hit that pre-season game winner. Comparing a guy who fell to 30 to a guy who was picked 53rd and didn't play his first NBA game until two years later is a bit lame, tbh.

[PingPong]

I thought Marco Belinelli was the manu replacement.... woops.

[xmas1997]

Manu is irreplaceable IMHO.
ONE OF A KIND

[Beaverfuzz]

Nope, Anderson won't last more than two years on the Spurs roster. Dude is a scrub.

[cjw]

Nope, Anderson won't last more than two years on the Spurs roster. Dude is a scrub.

That's par for the course with #30 picks. At least he'll probably have a better career than that guy the Thunder drafted to be cheap. Just be glad you're not an OKC fan with two years left until the franchise implodes.

[skulls138]

Manu is a unique player. Bill Simmons once said there will be 100 Dwayne Wades before there's another Manu.What does that even mean? I never liked BS or his opinion and now like him less. Manu rules but Wades bad ass too.

[SpurPadre]

I think those observations faded soon after Nando hit that pre-season game winner. Comparing a guy who fell to 30 to a guy who was picked 53rd and didn't play his first NBA game until two years later is a bit lame, tbh.

No comparing a guy who "fell" to 30 and hasn't proven a damn thing to a future HOF is a bit lame, tbh. Anderson hasn't proven anymore than de culo has, that's for sure and they're both slow-footed dude's who happen to be good passers. Of course I hope Anderson proves to be legit but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[will_spurs]

What does that even mean? I never liked BS or his opinion and now like him less. Manu rules but Wades bad ass too.

It means Wade's skillset is nothing special, he's the prototypical shooting guard, just with a lot more talent than average. Manu's skillset is unique, nobody can replicate it.

[jaffies]

I can see him filling Manu's role off the bench in a few years. Play creator and clutch.

He strikes me as someone whos gonna be clutch

I could see a lineup like Danny Green - Beli/Leonard - Slowmo- Diaw/Duncan/Leonard - Splitter having insane defense and good offense
No.
I can't even begin to think of a player than can replace Manu and the uniqueness he brings. To say that it is replaceable is insane.

[Proxy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AcrlWNdtjA

here's a good video that has a lot of highlights from Manu when he was in his prime. I know OP is trolling, but I do think a big portion of ST tends to forget just how fucking good he was. Those drives into the lane against the Pistons...............

We give TD a lot of credit for adjusting his body and game to the times, as he deserves. I don't think Manu gets enough credit for his adjustments though.

[100%duncan]

I don't think OP meant harm but no. I do hope that these are one of those threads that will get bumped a few years from now when KA does something special for the Spurs you know maybe the 7th championship or something.

[Dex]

Let's wait to see the guy play some actual NBA basketball before we start asking these questions, tbh.

[Chinook]

Why the hell is this thread controversial? It's just a fact that someone will have to replace Manu in a couple of years. Tim and Tony as well. It's completely valid to wonder whether Anderson can fill Manu's role well enough for the Spurs' bench to remain elite.

Now, on topic, I don't know if Anderson can handle the speed of the pro game yet. I also am not sure if he can play the two effectively, and that's the position that would make the most sense for him to play from a lineup standpoint. Until he has more time under his belt, he can't be projected for anything meaningful.

[Cklbmk]

Manu is a unique player. Bill Simmons once said there will be 100 Dwayne Wades before there's another Manu.

and then James Harden appeared

[Cklbmk]

Why the hell is this thread controversial? It's just a fact that someone will have to replace Manu in a couple of years. Tim and Tony as well. It's completely valid to wonder whether Anderson can fill Manu's role well enough for the Spurs' bench to remain elite.

Now, on topic, I don't know if Anderson can handle the speed of the pro game yet. I also am not sure if he can play the two effectively, and that's the position that would make the most sense for him to play from a lineup standpoint. Until he has more time under his belt, he can't be projected for anything meaningful.



I don't envision him as a 2, more a 3 but filling the same role as Manu just as a 3.

[cd98]

and then James Harden appeared

Except when was the last time you saw Harden drop a pass between the legs of a defender while both were on the move. Or dive for a loose ball. Or compliment his teammates rather than dissing them. Harden is left handed and he gets to the line...end of similarities. Not a lot of guys in the NBA that could pass or drive and finish like Manu.

[Proxy]

to wonder whether Anderson can fill Manu's role well enough for the Spurs' bench to remain elite.



that word makes a big difference

[ambchang]

and then James Harden appeared

They look similar in their approach to the game, but they play VERY different games.

For one, Manu defends.

Second, Manu shoots less from 3, and has more of a mid range game.

Third, Manu plays within the flow of the offense much more.

Fourth, Manu is less ball dominant

Fifth, Manu pass quite a bit more

Sixth, Manu was a much better rebounder in his prime

Seventh, Harden is much better at going to the line

Eighth, Harden is less turnover prone

Ninth, Ginobili is much more clutch

Again, they look similar in their styles, but their approach and overall impact to the game is very different. Especially the HOU Harden, who is all but a chucker these days.

[TheGreatYacht]

Don't think anyone will ever fully replace Manu tbh. A player of his caliber coming off the bench is practically unheard of.
James Harden and Bledsoe are somewhere laughing

[TheGreatYacht]

Kyle Anderson is bigger and better. 10/10 thread... Pop runs his whole playbook for Manu, without it he's De Culo

[Obstructed_View]

No comparing a guy who "fell" to 30 and hasn't proven a damn thing to a future HOF is a bit lame, tbh. Anderson hasn't proven anymore than de culo has, that's for sure and they're both slow-footed dude's who happen to be good passers. Of course I hope Anderson proves to be legit but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

His coaches, analysts and people that have seen Anderson play have been comparing him to better hall-of-famers than Manu since he was in high school. Discussing the possibilities for him to fill Manu's role on a Spurs message board in the offseason is FAR less lame than comparing him to De Colo.

[Obstructed_View]

and then James Harden appeared

He's got the layup, he's got the stepback, he doesn't win, he's not clutch, and he can't defend.

[Brazil]

I don't follow chinook and O_V logic on dat one tbh

asking if Anderson can replace Manu is as foolish as asking if he can replace Duncan. We don't even know if dude can be an nba player. I would understand a Can Kyle break the rotation and get significant minutes as a rookie next year ?... but wondering if he can replace Manu ? really ?

[Brazil]

His coaches, analysts and people that have seen Anderson play have been comparing him to better hall-of-famers than Manu since he was in high school. Discussing the possibilities for him to fill Manu's role on a Spurs message board in the offseason is FAR less lame than comparing him to De Colo.

and also analysts have been saying dude is too slow to become a rotation player

[cd98]

James Harden and Bledsoe are somewhere laughing

I'd love to see Harden's response if the Rockets asked him to resume his 6th man role. Sure he was willing to do it early in his career, but after his comments this summer, I'd bet there is no way he would do it in his prime. Manu, of course, did it without complaint. And Bledsoe is not any where near Manu in his prime when he was coming off the bench. Hell, Bledsoe can't even get anyone to sign him. If it were Manu in his prime, the Suns would just offer him the max.

[cd98]

What does that even mean? I never liked BS or his opinion and now like him less. Manu rules but Wades bad ass too.

To be clear, the point wasn't Manu is better than Wade. It's that there will be 100 guys who have a game like Wade's before there will be a player with Manu's skill set (flair for passing/finishing in the lane). That's not an insult to Wade, who is a great player, but it's recognition that there just aren't very many players that will pass the ball between the legs of players when they are on the move or do other things so uniquely.

[RD2191]

I think they mean replace Manu as facilitator off the bench, not a HOF SG.

[Chinook]

I don't envision him as a 2, more a 3 but filling the same role as Manu just as a 3.

I think that's LJC's position unless the Spurs strike out on a starting four. Then, they may spend on a really good sixth man and start Diaw.


that word makes a big difference

It doesn't.

[Brazil]

To be clear, the point wasn't Manu is better than Wade. It's that there will be 100 guys who have a game like Wade's before there will be a player with Manu's skill set (flair for passing/finishing in the lane). That's not an insult to Wade, who is a great player, but it's recognition that there just aren't very many players that will pass the ball between the legs of players when they are on the move or do other things so uniquely.

:lol 100 guys who have a game like Wade and manu is one of a kind... we are all Spurs fans but come on now

First of all Wade is well above average for a SG regarding passing and hitting open team mates, sure he is not as spectacular as Manu but dude is a 6 apg which is higher than Manu even per 36 mn pg.
Second Wade is / was one of best finisher in the lane so I don't see that point as one of a big difference.

Then he is a better rebounder than Manu, steal the ball at the same rate and you add 1 blk per game which is quite rare for a guard.

Using Wade in that kind of argument is a bad idea saying there ae 100 guys who have a game like him is worst

[ElNono]

I like this kid... I think he can be the Toros' Magic Johnson...

[ElNono]

:lol 100 guys who have a game like Wade and manu is one of a kind... we are all Spurs fans but come on now

First of all Wade is well above average for a SG regarding passing and hitting open team mates, sure he is not as spectacular as Manu but dude is a 6 apg which is higher than Manu even per 36 mn pg.
Second Wade is / was one of best finisher in the lane so I don't see that point as one of a big difference.

Then he is a better rebounder than Manu, steal the ball at the same rate and you add 1 blk per game which is quite rare for a guard.

Using Wade in that kind of argument is a bad idea saying there ae 100 guys who have a game like him is worst

Wade is a genetic beast though... back in the day he was Kobe-like physically gifted. I also remember an Spo article saying Wade has oversized hands (like our boy Kawhi).

Gino really never had those gifts. What he did was mostly out of fearlessness and being a huge competitor, not some above average athleticism. I think that's what Simmons was basically referring to.

[DarrinS]

I thought he was supposed to be the next Boris.


Why not ask if he's going to replace Tim or Tony? Equally stupid questions.

[DarrinS]

Wade is a genetic beast though... back in the day he was Kobe-like physically gifted. I also remember an Spo article saying Wade has oversized hands (like our boy Kawhi).

Gino really never had those gifts. What he did was mostly out of fearlessness and being a huge competitor, not some above average athleticism. I think that's what Simmons was basically referring to.


Yeah, not medically enhanced at all.

[ElNono]

Yeah, not medically enhanced at all.

When Wade started he didn't have a foot wide jaw, tbh... and he was already an athletic beast...

[Brazil]

Wade is a genetic beast though... back in the day he was Kobe-like physically gifted. I also remember an Spo article saying Wade has oversized hands (like our boy Kawhi).

Gino really never had those gifts. What he did was mostly out of fearlessness and being a huge competitor, not some above average athleticism. I think that's what Simmons was basically referring to.

I don't disagree with that just saying that it is stupid to say there are 100 guys like Wade when dude is a pretty special specimen


On the Manu side... if the debate is: Manu is one of a kind in the white, argentinean with average athleticism category, we all agree :lol

[RD2191]

When Wade started he didn't have a foot wide jaw, tbh... and he was already an athletic beast...
:lol

[xmas1997]

When Wade started he didn't have a foot wide jaw, tbh... and he was already an athletic beast...

Peds changed that.
:lol

[cd98]

:lol 100 guys who have a game like Wade and manu is one of a kind... we are all Spurs fans but come on now

First of all Wade is well above average for a SG regarding passing and hitting open team mates, sure he is not as spectacular as Manu but dude is a 6 apg which is higher than Manu even per 36 mn pg.
Second Wade is / was one of best finisher in the lane so I don't see that point as one of a big difference.

Then he is a better rebounder than Manu, steal the ball at the same rate and you add 1 blk per game which is quite rare for a guard.

Using Wade in that kind of argument is a bad idea saying there ae 100 guys who have a game like him is worst

again, I'm not being a homer. Wade was better than Manu in his prime. But most basketball players go through a system that trains them to be D Wade. Ginobili's game is original. He just has a unique style. I'm not saying Manu is better, I'm just saying there are only a handful of guys in NBA history that could make some of the plays that he makes.

[ElNono]

I don't disagree with that just saying that it is stupid to say there are 100 guys like Wade when dude is a pretty special specimen

On the Manu side... if the debate is: Manu is one of a kind in the white, argentinean with average athleticism category, we all agree :lol

I dunno, I think there's quite a bit of genetic lottery winners, just not all of them reach the upper echelon... that's certainly a credit to Wade...

I mean, a player like Westbrook with Gino's court vision, passing ability and feel for the game would be fucking scary, tbh...

[Baam]

Will never have the first step to get points as easily as Manu but I do hope that he becomes the next great 6th man.

The main thing for him is to learn as much as he can from Boris, couldn't dream of a better mentor... He needs the post moves to use just size to it's fullest and not just to pass the ball over people... He needs to figure out the defensive end and become strong enough to guard multiple positions like Boris... I believe he can become a very good player but well see...

[skulls138]

Youre asking KA to be one of the best players of all time. Cmon now.

[SpurPadre]

His coaches, analysts and people that have seen Anderson play have been comparing him to better hall-of-famers than Manu since he was in high school. Discussing the possibilities for him to fill Manu's role on a Spurs message board in the offseason is FAR less lame than comparing him to De Colo.

Think that way if it strokes your ego and can start insults. I'll respectfully disagree. Again, I really do hope Anderson pans out.

[Cklbmk]

Youre asking KA to be one of the best players of all time. Cmon now.


He's our best draft pick since KL. Not too unreasonable tbh

[skulls138]

He's our best draft pick since KL. Not too unreasonable tbhIts extremely unreasonable. Ginobili is one of the best players to ever touch a basketball, thats all. And KL? He was picked what like two years ago? KA was the best player picked in 2-3 years....by a team that was good so couldnt pick high? Wow, you really bring up some great points. Real thought provoking stuff.

[exstatic]

Think that way if it strokes your ego and can start insults. I'll respectfully disagree. Again, I really do hope Anderson pans out.

It's not just his thinking. Even in this deep draft, the Spurs only graded 20 players as first round talent. We don't know where in that 20 the Spurs rated him, but they got him at least 10 places after they thought he should be gone. If anyone's thinking needs to be questioned, it's yours. He's got PATFO on his side.

[SpurPadre]

It's not just his thinking. Even in this deep draft, the Spurs only graded 20 players as first round talent. We don't know where in that 20 the Spurs rated him, but they got him at least 10 places after they thought he should be gone. If anyone's thinking needs to be questioned, it's yours. He's got PATFO on his side.

My thinking needs to be questioned just because I think he hasn't proven anything yet, which is FACTUALLY irrefutable? Wow. And proper reading comprehension would show I'm not anti-Anderson. I'm anti comparing unproven talent to a surefire HOF.

[cd021]

That's par for the course with #30 picks. At least he'll probably have a better career than that guy the Thunder drafted to be cheap. Just be glad you're not an OKC fan with two years left until the franchise implodes.

Josh Huestis might have not been drafted (at all) if it wasn't for that agreement he made with the Thunder. He should be considered a late second rounder talent wise with OKC reaching. McGary would be the better comparison.

[Solid D]

Kyle Anderson is bigger and better. 10/10 thread... Pop runs his whole playbook for Manu, without it he's De Culo

You're not even trying to disguise your trolling, now.

[Jimcs50]

Impossible to replace Manu. Manu is probababll the 5th most important Spur in their history

[Obstructed_View]

and also analysts have been saying dude is too slow to become a rotation player

I'll be interested to see the quotes you post to support that claim. Without even checking, I'd bet that comments that he's too slow are based on people who misinterpret his nickname, which came about because he's deliberate, not because he's such a subpar athlete. He's a worse athlete than Andrew Wiggins (though he defended him really well), but that doesn't make him a bad athlete.

[heyheymymy]

Will he ever replace Manu? Big shoes to fill. But his game is similar, past first and an eye for the court, high IQ, just like Manu. But the real question I guess is can he replace Diaw? That's the player he really fits the role of moreso, imo tbh

[Obstructed_View]

My thinking needs to be questioned just because I think he hasn't proven anything yet, which is FACTUALLY irrefutable? Wow. And proper reading comprehension would show I'm not anti-Anderson. I'm anti comparing unproven talent to a surefire HOF.

That's fair. At least you're discussing why you think it's unreasonable instead of starting even stupider threads. He is extremely unproven. The only reason it's acceptable, IMO, is because it's the offseason. We can make predictions based upon his previous play. Hopefully people who have seen a bunch of UCLA stuff can chime in and actually give us some information on how he plays. Manu is not going to be here in a few years, and someone is going to have to take on that sixth man role, and Anderson is probably going to be the best bet because when Duncan and Manu leave Anderson will be behind the two best players on the team on the depth chart, but can likely back up both positions depending upon need.

[xmas1997]

I'll be interested to see the quotes you post to support that claim. Without even checking, I'd bet that comments that he's too slow are based on people who misinterpret his nickname, which came about because he's deliberate, not because he's such a subpar athlete. He's a worse athlete than Andrew Wiggins (though he defended him really well), but that doesn't make him a bad athlete.

Your assessment in bold is what I have most often read as being reported about him.

[Obstructed_View]

Your assessment in bold is what I have most often read as being reported about him.

I think there's a misinterpretation by some folks about what "replace Manu" means. Someone's going to replace Manu one way or another, even if that person stinks. Pete Myers was the Bulls starting 2 when Jordan was playing baseball. Filling a role is one thing, doing well for the team another, and becoming a legend is something else altogether.

We all agree Anderson is not James White (!), but being able to contribute some of the things that Larry Bird or Manu have, based solely on how effective he was during his college career, isn't really ridiculous to project. Larry Bird never dominated anyone with his footspeed, nor did Manu. They could create angles and take advantage of space. Bird (fadeaway) and Manu (step-back) could always get their shot off, though neither has a lightning-release, and both have always been good defenders even when guarding players that were far superior athletes. KA is also a good rebounder, which translates well to the NBA. If you have good vision and good anticipation, you can make up for a lot. Anderson has shown that he has those things in spades, and he's on the right team for his skills. His jumper reminds me of Bird, and his passing reminds me of Manu. Probably some homer in that.

Now here's the real difference: what makes Manu and Bird hall of famers is the intangibles, which Kyle is going to have to show he has if he's to "replace Manu" in any deep way. Duncan has set the standard for the club, so the team's work-ethic is in place. If Anderson lives up to that, he can be nearly as good as he wants to be.

[Brazil]

I'll be interested to see the quotes you post to support that claim. Without even checking, I'd bet that comments that he's too slow are based on people who misinterpret his nickname, which came about because he's deliberate, not because he's such a subpar athlete. He's a worse athlete than Andrew Wiggins (though he defended him really well), but that doesn't make him a bad athlete.

draft.net for instance

Anderson is hampered by his lack of elite-level athleticism. He has a below-average first step and lateral quickness…

not even starting speaking about his release

[Venti Quattro]

Take the ice bucket challenge and never get up from the water

[xmas1997]

I think there's a misinterpretation by some folks about what "replace Manu" means. Someone's going to replace Manu one way or another, even if that person stinks. Pete Myers was the Bulls starting 2 when Jordan was playing baseball. Filling a role is one thing, doing well for the team another, and becoming a legend is something else altogether.

We all agree Anderson is not James White (!), but being able to contribute some of the things that Larry Bird or Manu have, based solely on how effective he was during his college career, isn't really ridiculous to project. Larry Bird never dominated anyone with his footspeed, nor did Manu. They could create angles and take advantage of space. Bird (fadeaway) and Manu (step-back) could always get their shot off, though neither has a lightning-release, and both have always been good defenders even when guarding players that were far superior athletes. KA is also a good rebounder, which translates well to the NBA. If you have good vision and good anticipation, you can make up for a lot. Anderson has shown that he has those things in spades, and he's on the right team for his skills. His jumper reminds me of Bird, and his passing reminds me of Manu. Probably some homer in that.

Now here's the real difference: what makes Manu and Bird hall of famers is the intangibles, which Kyle is going to have to show he has if he's to "replace Manu" in any deep way. Duncan has set the standard for the club, so the team's work-ethic is in place. If Anderson lives up to that, he can be nearly as good as he wants to be.

So true, your entire take, despite what the naysayers may say!

[Obstructed_View]

draft.net for instance

Anderson is hampered by his lack of elite-level athleticism. He has a below-average first step and lateral quickness…

not even starting speaking about his release

Wrap up from the source you cited.

Overall: Anderson is a big, versatile intriguing prospect with great guard skills and length. When he has the ball at the top of the key, reading the defense over the head of a smaller defense, he just seems to be in control of the game. He lacks NBA-caliber athleticism and isn't always consistent with his jump shot but he's definitely a prospect that lots of teams will want to get their hands on…

"Lack of elite-level athleticism" is a far fucking cry from "too slow to become a rotation player". Again, still waiting for all the analysts who have said what you suggested. You've yet to name one.

[Cklbmk]

Its extremely unreasonable. Ginobili is one of the best players to ever touch a basketball, thats all. And KL? He was picked what like two years ago? KA was the best player picked in 2-3 years....by a team that was good so couldnt pick high? Wow, you really bring up some great points. Real thought provoking stuff.

Cool. So I'm glad you're a rational person. I mean how ever can you replace someones role on a team if they were an all time great. We might as well concede every game after he retires forever. I mean no one can ever be a playmaker or clutch again. Am i right?

[Brazil]

Wrap up from the source you cited.


"Lack of elite-level athleticism" is a far fucking cry from "too slow to become a rotation player". Again, still waiting for all the analysts who have said what you suggested. You've yet to name one.

?

not sure what you are arguing tbh...

you post a quote saying He lacks NBA-caliber athleticism and I quoted Anderson is hampered by his lack of elite-level athleticism. He has a below-average first step and lateral quickness

then when you watch him you just can see his slow release could be an issue if Chip cannot fix it and you can see what draft.net means saying he has a below average first step and lateral quickness

My overall point is to say let's see if his game can translate to NBA despite his lack of athlecticism before wondering if dude can replace Manu... crazy talk

[xmas1997]

Seems to me there is a huge difference between "elite-level athleticism", "NBA-caliber athleticism", and "a lack of athleticism".

The vast majority of the articles I have read have only mentioned a lack of elite level athleticism. It seems to me that would describe many if not most of the athletes in the NBA and many of the greats.

Athleticism is the over riding issue, but IMHO considering what he has done through most of his basketball life, it makes this a negligible issue, because it describes a deliberate and patient style of play.

[Obstructed_View]

not sure what you are arguing tbh...
Not sure how you don't understand the difference in what you said to what you now say you said. Let's explain it to you like you're a five year old:

You didn't say he lacked elite-level athleticism. You didn't even say he was below average for an NBA player, both of which are true. You said "analysts have been saying dude is too slow to become a rotation player", which seems on the surface to be utter bullshit. We're all still waiting for you to find ANYONE who has said that. Personally, everyone I've seen, everywhere, projected him to be a first round pick. Nobody projects a guy who can't make an NBA rotation into the first round. Pretty much everyone is amazed that he fell to the Spurs.

Manu Ginobili is probably a better athlete than anyone you or I know, but he's probably below average for an NBA player. James White is an elite athlete anywhere in the world and couldn't stick in the NBA.

Thanks for at least discussing your objections in the thread instead of starting fucking idiot threads.

[xmas1997]

Not sure how you don't understand the difference in what you said to what you now say you said. Let's explain it to you like you're a five year old:

You didn't say he lacked elite-level athleticism. You didn't even say he was below average for an NBA player, both of which are true. You said "analysts have been saying dude is too slow to become a rotation player", which seems on the surface to be utter bullshit. We're all still waiting for you to find ANYONE who has said that. Personally, everyone I've seen, everywhere, projected him to be a first round pick. Nobody projects a guy who can't make an NBA rotation into the first round. Pretty much everyone is amazed that he fell to the Spurs.
Manu Ginobili is probably a better athlete than anyone you or I know, but he's probably below average for an NBA player. James White is an elite athlete anywhere in the world and couldn't stick in the NBA. Thanks for at least discussing your objections in the thread instead of starting fucking idiot threads.


:lmao Wow, O_V, a bit harsh, aren't you? But I guess he deserved it. "Consistency" was never one of Brazil's strong points, unless you are talking about bad takes. :lol

[Solid D]

I'm not concerned about Kyle's offense. I'm concerned about his defense and attention span while playing D. As the ball moves, Kyle's inexperience gets him picked-off too much and when defending the perimeter off-the-ball, he loses track of his man way too easily. He needs to fix that. A recent example of that: Richard Jefferson. Richard never could fix his attention span issues and inconsistent rotations off-the-ball.

[Chinook]

I'm not concerned about Kyle's offense. I'm concerned about his defense and attention span while playing D. As the ball moves, Kyle's inexperience gets him picked-off too much and when defending the perimeter off-the-ball, he loses track of his man way too easily. He needs to fix that. A recent example of that: Richard Jefferson. Richard never could fix his attention span issues and inconsistent rotations off-the-ball.

Yeah, I actually don't think he'll be that poor of an on-ball defender with NBA-caliber bigs behind him. But him fighting around screens or getting caught gambling is more worrisome. That's especially true if his future is at two-guard.

[Brazil]

Not sure how you don't understand the difference in what you said to what you now say you said. Let's explain it to you like you're a five year old:

You didn't say he lacked elite-level athleticism. You didn't even say he was below average for an NBA player, both of which are true. You said "analysts have been saying dude is too slow to become a rotation player", which seems on the surface to be utter bullshit. We're all still waiting for you to find ANYONE who has said that. Personally, everyone I've seen, everywhere, projected him to be a first round pick. Nobody projects a guy who can't make an NBA rotation into the first round. Pretty much everyone is amazed that he fell to the Spurs.

Manu Ginobili is probably a better athlete than anyone you or I know, but he's probably below average for an NBA player. James White is an elite athlete anywhere in the world and couldn't stick in the NBA.

Thanks for at least discussing your objections in the thread instead of starting fucking idiot threads.

First of you should chill. Unless I forgot something I did not insult your intelligence at any point of our discussion, I'd appreciate you do the same.

Sure I admit there is no exact quote saying he is too slow to become a rotation player but it does not mean there are no concerns about his slow release or lateral quickness. So yes there is doubt about the fact he will be able to shoot the ball other than wide opens ala Bonner or if he will be able to keep up on the Defensive end against quick players which I simplified with "dude is too slow to become a rotation player" my bad... point remains tho.

I'm no Nostradamus so I have no idea if he will play significant minutes on a nba team, I'm just saying there are legit concerns. These concerns deserve to be cleared before talking about the fact he can replace Manu. Therefore I maintain that IMO this is a silly thread and discussion, moreover IMO this thread is at idiotic as the one I created about Livio, thread meant to echo this one in an humourous way which btw seems to be trendy reading other threads on the same recipe.

On draft discussions, analysists were comparing his potential to Lamar Odom, Boris Diaw... never read anything about Ginobili.

Now YOU think that comparing him to Manu is interesting offseason topic I think it is retarded. I did not see yet any indication that YOUR opinion is more valuable than MINE.

Carry on

[Obstructed_View]

First of you should chill. Unless I forgot something I did not insult your intelligence at any point of our discussion, I'd appreciate you do the same.
I'd tell you that you had it coming for spamming the board with dumbass threads, but you were man enough to recant your earlier claim about Anderson, so that makes you smarter than 90 percent of the world.


Now YOU think that comparing him to Manu is interesting offseason topic I think it is retarded. I did not see yet any indication that YOUR opinion is more valuable than MINE.
Actually, we've been over that. I think it's okay to discuss him replacing Manu, since it's pretty likely that's exactly what he's going to do, for better or for worse. My opinion isn't more valuable than yours. If you'd said that you think it's retarded without starting threads, this probably wouldn't have escalated.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not concerned about Kyle's offense. I'm concerned about his defense and attention span while playing D. As the ball moves, Kyle's inexperience gets him picked-off too much and when defending the perimeter off-the-ball, he loses track of his man way too easily. He needs to fix that. A recent example of that: Richard Jefferson. Richard never could fix his attention span issues and inconsistent rotations off-the-ball.

Yep, that was a big concern. I was wondering about it early on. He lost his man a few times in the first SL game and got burned. He only got beat on cuts and picks a couple more times during SL, which is a pretty big turnaround. He cheats off his man more than Pop will want him to, but I don't think I've seen him lose someone because he just flat wasn't paying attention. He seems to be a smart team defender and doesn't concern himself with mistakes as long as he learns from them. He's got fucking Inspector Gadget arms too. Causes a lot of deflections. His defense only becomes a problem if the opposing team starts going Bonner on him when they see he's on the floor.

[TD 21]

Yeah, I actually don't think he'll be that poor of an on-ball defender with NBA-caliber bigs behind him. But him fighting around screens or getting caught gambling is more worrisome. That's especially true if his future is at two-guard.

There's zero chance of his future being at SG. It'll be enough of a challenge for him to defend SF's, let alone SG's. He's clearly an SF, in the mold of Turkoglu. He doesn't have the necessary bulk to play PF nor the combination of overwhelming size (for an SF) and shooting to be converted into a stretch four, like Daye.

[skulls138]

Cool. So I'm glad you're a rational person. I mean how ever can you replace someones role on a team if they were an all time great. We might as well concede every game after he retires forever. I mean no one can ever be a playmaker or clutch again. Am i right?Hey as Ive said elsewhere, I wish KA the best. I wish that all his talents translate to the NBA and makeup for any weaknesses he may have. I hope he even exceeds even the most optimistic fans prediction. But to discuss his ability to replace Ginobili NOW is nuts. Ginobili (on a good day admittedly) is a combination of Bird and Jordan no less. He has four, count em, four rings and is a big reason why he has them. I mean what on earth do you see in KA that could even remotely be as good as Ginobili? Passing is the closest thing but even then he might not be as good. Everything else? Give me some examples of how he could be as good?

My optimistic prediction is that KA could be a multiple time all star but not on the first team and his positives have to makeup for a lot of his negatives.

[Chinook]

There's zero chance of his future being at SG. It'll be enough of a challenge for him to defend SF's, let alone SG's. He's clearly an SF, in the mold of Turkoglu. He doesn't have the necessary bulk to play PF nor the combination of overwhelming size (for an SF) and shooting to be converted into a stretch four, like Daye.

That's all well and good, but he'll probably play the two in 2015 anyway.

[ElNono]

I'm no Nostradamus


That's all well and good, but he'll probably play the two in 2015 anyway.

I'm Nonostradamus... and Chinook *will* be wrong on that prediction, tbh.

[Chinook]

I'm Nonostradamus... and Chinook *will* be wrong on that prediction, tbh.

Well, I'm no Nonostradamus, but out of all the new players under team control, he's the only one with the skill-set.

[Brazil]

I'm Nonostradamus... and Chinook *will* be wrong on that prediction, tbh.

:lol

[littlecoyotecoin]

Seems to me there is a huge difference between "elite-level athleticism", "NBA-caliber athleticism", and "a lack of athleticism".

The vast majority of the articles I have read have only mentioned a lack of elite level athleticism. It seems to me that would describe many if not most of the athletes in the NBA and many of the greats.

Athleticism is the over riding issue, but IMHO considering what he has done through most of his basketball life, it makes this a negligible issue, because it describes a deliberate and patient style of play.

I agree with a lot of what you and OV are saying about Anderson, but the quote about him not having "NBA caliber athleticism" should satisfy the request of "show me one quote". That is pretty cut-and-dried. Not good enough for the NBA. Of course, the guy who wrote that could simply be wrong, but it is on the record and satisfies the burden.

[tholdren]

Let me recap this thread:

Can Kyle Anderson, a 12 ppg scorer in college, replace one of the most decorated professional basketball players of all time?

BWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

Really? Im serious. I have no idea how this thread has made it to page three without any blue, or typos due to laughter. This shit cannot be real.

[littlecoyotecoin]

We should have defined "replace" earlier to prevent the argument. Semantics police weren't on duty. I agree with both of them, now, because they were both arguing different meanings of the word. You're right, he will probably replace him in position, at least for some minutes, and Brazil was right in that it's basically impossible for him to replace Manu, the player - not the position.

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol 100 guys who have a game like Wade and manu is one of a kind... we are all Spurs fans but come on now

First of all Wade is well above average for a SG regarding passing and hitting open team mates, sure he is not as spectacular as Manu but dude is a 6 apg which is higher than Manu even per 36 mn pg.
Second Wade is / was one of best finisher in the lane so I don't see that point as one of a big difference.

Then he is a better rebounder than Manu, steal the ball at the same rate and you add 1 blk per game which is quite rare for a guard.

Using Wade in that kind of argument is a bad idea saying there ae 100 guys who have a game like him is worst

Ok, not 100, only 50? What number would you be comfortable with?

As previously stated, finding a Wade "type" can be done much more easily, and I extend that to meaning Manu is better, too, not just more "unique". Wade never won much of anything in his prime until Shaq showed up for a one and done. He had a resurgence much later with Lebron, sometimes as an albatross more than an eagle. You might say something similar of Manu with Tim. However, Manu was the driving force behind his national team's success. He had no Shaq or Lebron to lean on and coat-tail to get him to gold. They coat-tailed him, and are still trying to do it at 37 years of age. You put Wade on that team and the Golden Generation gets renamed to the Silver Squad or the Bronze Buddies, or the Also Rans. Regarding Wade's higher numbers in a few categories...he was the starter and/or main option for lots of years playing his entire career in the weak East...Manu was coming off the bench in a tougher West, trying to turn bench lemons into lemonade, likely having carried his national team on his shoulders in the previous off-season each year. Can you imagine what Manu's numbers would look like if he was a starter in a big market in the East his whole career and only played international ball once or twice? You don't think they're a little better? He would have probably been at the line twice as much, too.

In retrospect I pick Manu over Wade every time. Under-rated athleticism, as well, when he was young. Hell, we still just saw him drive through the lane and dunk on a broken leg at the age of 37. At 27 he was quick as a whip sometimes, with the ball...picking people's pockets when without it, etc. Nimble feet, some hops, and hand-eye coordination in spades. We used to try to catch bats with wide nets when I was young, with only occasional success. He swatted one on it's first or second pass. Add the intangibles, and Bill Simmons had something in that statement. He was using round numbers, and I am sure he wouldn't want to be painted into a corner to say that Manu is better than Wade, but it was definitely a well-deserved tip of the cap to Manu.

[xmas1997]

We are lucky to have Manu through his whole NBA career.

[skulls138]

Manu and Wade are both great. I would rather have a prime Wade than a prime Lebron. Wade is much more clutch than Lebron. Having said that I would rather have Manu than Wade but they are much closer than that 100 bullshit.

As for styles as in Manu is more unique, who gives a flying fuck. All that matters is whether that orange ball goes through that orange hoop or not.

Also, Shaq coattailed Wade at that point in his career.

[exstatic]

There's zero chance of his future being at SG. It'll be enough of a challenge for him to defend SF's, let alone SG's. He's clearly an SF, in the mold of Turkoglu. He doesn't have the necessary bulk to play PF nor the combination of overwhelming size (for an SF) and shooting to be converted into a stretch four, like Daye.

He has a better chance of being a stretch 4 than Daye does. 6'9" with a 7'3" wingspan is plenty long enough to play the 4. Kyle looks like when they get him in shape, his frame will be able to add some muscle.

I don't care how tall Daye is, he's a stick. Daye's been in the league for 5 years and doesn't appear to have added one pound.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He has a better chance of being a stretch 4 than Daye does. 6'9" with a 7'3" wingspan is plenty long enough to play the 4. Kyle looks like when they get him in shape, his frame will be able to add some muscle.

I don't care how tall Daye is, he's a stick. Daye's been in the league for 5 years and doesn't appear to have added one pound.

Actually, Daye's gone from 200 when entering the league, to 216-218 when reporting to The Spurs, to a rumored 225, recently. I don't have access to his bathroom scale, but the idea that he hasn't or can't gain weight is a little tired. The fact is, he has gained weight. He'll never be Baynes, but he doesn't need to be and he even does APPEAR to have gained weight if you care to look. However, if you want to blindly stick to the narrative that he hasn't, more power to you, I guess. This is not to say he has gained enough weight to be effective. That he has not proved to doubters, to be sure. But, if you're going to prop Anderson up over Daye, at least keep it factual. I love Anderson's game, thus far, too. So I am rooting for him. I am not saying Kyle can't play the stretch-4, but that doesn't appear to be what they are grooming him for at these early stages. Kyle does have a great wing-span, if a little shorter than Daye, for the position, but having him stand in the corner and kicked to would be a waste of his talents. Daye, too, for that matter. If Daye can be an effective shooter, we'll see him dribble around the charging defender and pull up for a mid-range, go to the hole and/or line, and pass for an assist and a lot more than Bonner is not capable of as Matty only had a pass around the horn available to him or his running hook. If Daye can stay on the court defensively, he might bring a lot more options offensively than Matty. Kyle and Daye are more similar than they are different in a lot of ways. I am surprised at all the hate for one and love for the other when they share a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses. It keeps being brought up that Daye has not been successful for five years in the league (which is arguable, as he had inconsistent success...not a total lack of it ever), yet he's been in the NBA five years. Anderson hasn't played a single second in the NBA, and he didn't set summer league on fire, either. He had flashes against inferior competition. Nothing more. I hope he comes in and sets the league on fire, or at least can get regular minutes, but there is an irrationality of expectation underlying some of the talk about him sometimes.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Manu and Wade are both great. I would rather have a prime Wade than a prime Lebron. Wade is much more clutch than Lebron. Having said that I would rather have Manu than Wade but they are much closer than that 100 bullshit.

As for styles as in Manu is more unique, who gives a flying fuck. All that matters is whether that orange ball goes through that orange hoop or not.

Also, Shaq coattailed Wade at that point in his career.

Wade was in his prime, but he wouldn't have won shit without Shaq. He would have had another year like the one before and the ones after.

[elemento]

My opinion is that Kyle Anderson will replace Manu's role as the playmaker taking care of 2nd unit. But it doesn't mean that he will play as a SG. I think he will end up as a stretch 4 having PG duties off the bench as a 6th man. That's simply the best way to use him.

I don't see him as a starter simply because SA won't be able to hide him defensively against starters. That could be done if comes off the bench though.

[TD 21]

That's all well and good, but he'll probably play the two in 2015 anyway.

Based on what, you arbitrarily deciding so?



He has a better chance of being a stretch 4 than Daye does. 6'9" with a 7'3" wingspan is plenty long enough to play the 4. Kyle looks like when they get him in shape, his frame will be able to add some muscle.

I don't care how tall Daye is, he's a stick. Daye's been in the league for 5 years and doesn't appear to have added one pound.

No, he doesn't. He's definitely tall and long enough to play the position, but he lacks strength. Obviously Daye does too, but the difference is, he's overwhelmingly tall and long for an SF and his shooting goes from decent as an SF to potentially impact as a PF.

So what? There's plenty of rail thin bigs (Bosh, Sanders, Wright, Plumlee, Evans, Novak, etc.) nowadays, playing up a position from where they were projected when they first entered the league. It's all about match-ups. Obviously, they're not going to have him defend overpowering, low post scorers.

[Chinook]

Based on what, you arbitrarily deciding so?

He's the only candidate in the pipeline.

[superbigtime]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbLeoTi9m7wiZE-UoUgvr3nxLPWVZBkvpDk8FF5B_UxOI6QLAN (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=CwBDLV3MCmYehM&tbnid=5pA2M4SH1POB1M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lifeaccordingtosteph.com%2F20 12%2F06%2Fthursday-things.html&ei=eDv5U6TqIaGK8QHCw4GQCA&bvm=bv.73612305,d.b2U&psig=AFQjCNFuFcr8KrwTdmskHO-sSzrViPyGtw&ust=1408929003532159)

[TD 21]

He's the only candidate in the pipeline.

I guess it's not possible Ginobili returns for another season, they re-sign Belinelli or, if either or both is gone, they sign another SG.

[Chinook]

I guess it's not possible Ginobili returns for another season, they re-sign Belinelli or, if either or both is gone, they sign another SG.

Pipeline.

[TD 21]

Pipeline.

Based on this line of thinking, Jean-Charles will be the backup C in '15 by default.

[Chinook]

Based on this line of thinking, Jean-Charles will be the backup C in '15 by default.

There is no "by default". The Spurs listed Anderson as a two-guard for the summer league. That's how they think of him. Sure, they gave him an SF sublisting, but they clearly don't share your opinion.

[TD 21]

There is no "by default". The Spurs listed Anderson as a two-guard for the summer league. That's how they think of him. Sure, they gave him an SF sublisting, but they clearly don't share your opinion.

There's all kinds of foolish, blatantly incorrect listings in the NBA, from heights, to weights, to positions.

It defies logic to think that a player widely believed to be in tough defending SF's, will defend SG's. But believe whatever you want; we'll find out in due time.

[Chinook]

There's all kinds of foolish, blatantly incorrect listings in the NBA, from heights, to weights, to positions.

It defies logic to think that a player widely believed to be in tough defending SF's, will defend SG's. But believe whatever you want; we'll find out in due time.

Honestly, I'm hoping the Spurs have a vet two-guard off the bench next year. That way, the vet, Anderson and LJC can compete for minutes. The same would be true if a decent guard prospect (like one of the Harrison twins) falls to them next draft. But depending on how things shake out, that may not be possible. If Manu retires and the Spurs use their cap space to replace Tim, then they may not be able to find a good enough guard with the room exception, or they may use the exception on a backup center.

Anderson is a forward in my mind, but everything I've heard from him or the Spurs this off-season suggests he's going to get a shot at guard.

[TD 21]

Honestly, I'm hoping the Spurs have a vet two-guard off the bench next year. That way, the vet, Anderson and LJC can compete for minutes. The same would be true if a decent guard prospect (like one of the Harrison twins) falls to them next draft. But depending on how things shake out, that may not be possible. If Manu retires and the Spurs use their cap space to replace Tim, then they may not be able to find a good enough guard with the room exception, or they may use the exception on a backup center.

Anderson is a forward in my mind, but everything I've heard from him or the Spurs this off-season suggests he's going to get a shot at guard.

They will, man. There's always lost cost finds to be had. They're not going to go with just Green at SG. Sure, they did with Leonard at SF last season, but at least they could get away with Green, Ginobili and even Belinelli (in some cases) defending the position, in the majority of match-ups. I don't see Anderson being able to defend SG's at all.

Where have you heard that? More importantly, why? When healthy, they have six guards and one SF.

[Chinook]

They will, man. There's always lost cost finds to be had. They're not going to go with just Green at SG. Sure, they did with Leonard at SF last season, but at least they could get away with Green, Ginobili and even Belinelli (in some cases) defending the position, in the majority of match-ups. I don't see Anderson being able to defend SG's at all.

Where have you heard that? More importantly, why? When healthy, they have six guards and one SF.

They'll be the opposite roster position next year, with at least three SFs (counting Anderson but not Bertans) and only Green as players who can be reasonably expected to be on the team.

Right now, the 2015 bench would look like this, provided Manu and Beli move on:

Mills, Anderson, Jean-Charles, Diaw, center

I doubt Livio can guard twos (although you never know, since Mbah a Moute could back in the day), but if the only other wings the Spurs get are scrubs like Bogans, then I'd rather see him try. As far as Anderson's ability to guard the two, I think he'd be able to do so in a good number of situations. We're not talking about Monte Ellis here. We're talking about backups. Most teams lack a dangerous backup SG.

[ElNono]

IMO, the Spurs will be looking for more of a slasher/fast-footed/dynamic player to play SG in the future, especially with Tony's inevitable slowdown, and the fact that Green isn't super quick to begin with. Right now that guy is Mills.

The reason is you just won't groom a floor general/leader in Manu's mold on short notice, so Anderson won't play Manu's role. The Spurs overall will probably play noticeably different, at least off the bench.

The key to Anderson earning minutes will be working out his 3 point shot. He needs a quicker release. Then he could provide some of what Diaw provides. If that doesn't work out, or his foot speed is a hindrance, all is not lost, I think he could provide some minutes as backup PG, if his passing translates to the pro level. He's obviously a project. I think the Spurs are high on him coming in, but he has a lot of work to do. Luckily, he'll have Chip around to work on his shot.

[skulls138]

Wade was in his prime, but he wouldn't have won shit without Shaq. He would have had another year like the one before and the ones after.Maybe, maybe not. No superstar has done it by himself but Ive watched enough of Wade for me to think that when the chips are down, I want him on my side, more than Lebron James even. And that championship with Shaq was ALOT less Shaq than his contribution with Kobe.

However, I never said he was better than Ginobili so don't understand the arguement. My problem was with Bill Simmons statement more than anything. It was just dumb.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu and Wade are both great. I would rather have a prime Wade than a prime Lebron. Wade is much more clutch than Lebron. Having said that I would rather have Manu than Wade but they are much closer than that 100 bullshit.

As for styles as in Manu is more unique, who gives a flying fuck. All that matters is whether that orange ball goes through that orange hoop or not.

Also, Shaq coattailed Wade at that point in his career.

Shaq should have won MVP one of those years in Miami. May not have been the year they rung, but they wouldn't have if he weren't on the team.

[illusioNtEk]

Let's not all get worked up and start sucking someone's cock this early.... How about we wait and see how he plays in a real NBA game.

[TD 21]

They'll be the opposite roster position next year, with at least three SFs (counting Anderson but not Bertans) and only Green as players who can be reasonably expected to be on the team.

Right now, the 2015 bench would look like this, provided Manu and Beli move on:

Mills, Anderson, Jean-Charles, Diaw, center

I doubt Livio can guard twos (although you never know, since Mbah a Moute could back in the day), but if the only other wings the Spurs get are scrubs like Bogans, then I'd rather see him try. As far as Anderson's ability to guard the two, I think he'd be able to do so in a good number of situations. We're not talking about Monte Ellis here. We're talking about backups. Most teams lack a dangerous backup SG.

That's if they view Jean-Charles as more SF than PF (and I suspect they don't; the same goes for Bertans). Either way, Anderson can't defend SG's on anything close to a full time basis and I trust that they're intelligent enough to recognize this.

You and too many others seem to be considering one of or both of, Bertans and Jean-Charles, as immediate rotation players, which isn't happening. Not only in their first season, but neither is a guaranteed rotation player going forward period.

As far as SG, look for them to go after a younger player, who's shown some promise and may be on the verge of firmly establishing themselves as a rotation player. A guy like Henry comes to mind.

[Chinook]

That's if they view Jean-Charles as more SF than PF (and I suspect they don't; the same goes for Bertans). Either way, Anderson can't defend SG's on anything close to a full time basis and I trust that they're intelligent enough to recognize this.

You and too many others seem to be considering one of or both of, Bertans and Jean-Charles, as immediate rotation players, which isn't happening. Not only in their first season, but neither is a guaranteed rotation player going forward period.

As far as SG, look for them to go after a younger player, who's shown some promise and may be on the verge of firmly establishing themselves as a rotation player. A guy like Henry comes to mind.

We have no idea how Anderson is going to fare defensively. Sure, we can see he's not coming out as an elite stopper, but he can perform a lot better than he did with all the Spurs defensive talent around him. He certainly can't be worse than Beli, whom Pop had no problem putting on PGs, SGs and SFs last season.

I doubt the team stacks a bunch of power-forwards only to play two or three. The team won't really have the luxury of having a vet-laden bench if they use their cap space on a star. They will just have to play their young players and hope they can develop. There's no point in having proven scrubs like Henry get minutes over Anderson, Jean-Charles or Bertans. We already know he isn't an NBA-caliber rotation player.

The Spurs re-signing Mills locked them into depending on Anderson to be their bench's perimeter play-maker. So I unless they find a way to draft a two who can run the offense, I think they'll be looking for a three-and-D player to be their other wing. Ideally, that's a player like Crabbe, whom the Blazers may end up cutting soon with all of their perimeter depth. But it's very possible Jean-Charles ends up being the best player for the job playing an Mbah a Moute--like role but with better size and shooting. If so, that means either Diaw plays the five (which he can certainly do against most teams) or Anderson plays the two.

There are a lot of things that can lead to Anderson not playing the two next year. But none of them are terribly likely to happen yet.

[G-Dawgg]

To be honest, I'm not concerned about Kyle Anderson's lack of speed and athleticism. He's learned to use his size and length effectively enough to compensate and has obviously developed alot of skills like his excellent handle and smooth jumper. He could be a very unorthodox matchup terror that the Spurs can use. I think he can develop into a big weapon for the Spurs. Tim Duncan was never the quickest or most athletic player either but he also compensated for it with his skills.

[TD 21]

We have no idea how Anderson is going to fare defensively. Sure, we can see he's not coming out as an elite stopper, but he can perform a lot better than he did with all the Spurs defensive talent around him. He certainly can't be worse than Beli, whom Pop had no problem putting on PGs, SGs and SFs last season.

I doubt the team stacks a bunch of power-forwards only to play two or three. The team won't really have the luxury of having a vet-laden bench if they use their cap space on a star. They will just have to play their young players and hope they can develop. There's no point in having proven scrubs like Henry get minutes over Anderson, Jean-Charles or Bertans. We already know he isn't an NBA-caliber rotation player.

The Spurs re-signing Mills locked them into depending on Anderson to be their bench's perimeter play-maker. So I unless they find a way to draft a two who can run the offense, I think they'll be looking for a three-and-D player to be their other wing. Ideally, that's a player like Crabbe, whom the Blazers may end up cutting soon with all of their perimeter depth. But it's very possible Jean-Charles ends up being the best player for the job playing an Mbah a Moute--like role but with better size and shooting. If so, that means either Diaw plays the five (which he can certainly do against most teams) or Anderson plays the two.

There are a lot of things that can lead to Anderson not playing the two next year. But none of them are terribly likely to happen yet.

Actually, we have an excellent idea how he's going to fare defensively. Belinelli rarely defended PG's, has to defend SG's by default and defended some SF's out of necessity with all the wing injuries and also in the event they were lesser threatening offensive players than the SG. But spotting him based on match-ups is different than having him defend those positions consistently.

Why not? They've done it in the past at various positions. Besides, it's not as if those two can't play SF, if need be. They're going to try to remain as competitive as possible and playing young, raw players, who are middling prospects to begin with, doesn't fit with that. Look for them to target young veterans who won't break the bank, like Seraphin, Henry, etc.

Exactly and they can find a 3-and-D wing in free agency. Despite having the girth for it in most match-ups, Diaw can't credibly play C, because he can't protect the rim or defensive rebound at an acceptable level. Backup C will be a major need, considering it's unlikely Splitter ever plays true starters minutes.

I couldn't disagree more. I'd be shocked if their plan for '15 is for Anderson (as an SG) and Jean-Charles to be the primary wing backups.

[Chinook]

Actually, we have an excellent idea how he's going to fare defensively. Belinelli rarely defended PG's, has to defend SG's by default and defended some SF's out of necessity with all the wing injuries and also in the event they were lesser threatening offensive players than the SG. But spotting him based on match-ups is different than having him defend those positions consistently.

Why not? They've done it in the past at various positions. Besides, it's not as if those two can't play SF, if need be. They're going to try to remain as competitive as possible and playing young, raw players, who are middling prospects to begin with, doesn't fit with that. Look for them to target young veterans who won't break the bank, like Seraphin, Henry, etc.

Exactly and they can find a 3-and-D wing in free agency. Despite having the girth for it in most match-ups, Diaw can't credibly play C, because he can't protect the rim or defensive rebound at an acceptable level. Backup C will be a major need, considering it's unlikely Splitter ever plays true starters minutes.

I couldn't disagree more. I'd be shocked if their plan for '15 is for Anderson (as an SG) and Jean-Charles to be the primary wing backups.

We don't really have any idea, since UCLA didn't really have NBA-caliber bigs, who are just as important to perimeter defense as the actual on-ball defender is. Anderson really didn't do that poorly in the summer league, and he actually had some of the most difficult assignments in the tournament. I actually don't see many legit backup two-guards in the league right now. The only time I think he's going to struggle is when teams run two-PG sets, but even then, it probably won't be Anderson in with Mills rather than Green or Parker.

They usually used overloaded positions to provide depth at other positions. That was the case with De Colo and Joseph playing the two or Beli and Diaw playing the three. That's pretty much what I am saying they're going to do, rather than sign min-salary two-guards.

"Three-and-D" is the new "combo-guard". It's given to a whole bunch of players who can't do anything else well, but who also can't defend or shoot at an elite level. It's hard finding wings who can really have strong impacts in those areas. That's why OKC used two firsts in two years on prospects in that position and why Sefalosha got overpaid this off-season. You most likely won't also find one who's a very strong rebounder like Jean-Charles is. Yes, I agree that backup center is a need, which is why I don't think the Spurs will put their limited resources into getting a wing.

[TD 21]

We don't really have any idea, since UCLA didn't really have NBA-caliber bigs, who are just as important to perimeter defense as the actual on-ball defender is. Anderson really didn't do that poorly in the summer league, and he actually had some of the most difficult assignments in the tournament. I actually don't see many legit backup two-guards in the league right now. The only time I think he's going to struggle is when teams run two-PG sets, but even then, it probably won't be Anderson in with Mills rather than Green or Parker.

They usually used overloaded positions to provide depth at other positions. That was the case with De Colo and Joseph playing the two or Beli and Diaw playing the three. That's pretty much what I am saying they're going to do, rather than sign min-salary two-guards.

"Three-and-D" is the new "combo-guard". It's given to a whole bunch of players who can't do anything else well, but who also can't defend or shoot at an elite level. It's hard finding wings who can really have strong impacts in those areas. That's why OKC used two firsts in two years on prospects in that position and why Sefalosha got overpaid this off-season. You most likely won't also find one who's a very strong rebounder like Jean-Charles is. Yes, I agree that backup center is a need, which is why I don't think the Spurs will put their limited resources into getting a wing.

We absolutely have an idea. Anyway, I just don't see it. You have to be a freak athlete to be his size and able to credibly defend guards.

To an extent, sure. But they're still going to bring in a second natural SG. From the mid-aughts on, they've clearly prioritized having a lot of guards who can provide secondary ball handling. I don't see them going away from that all of a sudden; not with the way the game is trending.

True. I just mean someone who doesn't need the ball, can shoot the three at least adequately and at least has the physical tools to be a neutral defender. Rebounding on the wings is far down the priority list, particularly with arguably the best rebounding wing in the league already on the team.

They don't have to pick one or the other. It's not going to cost much to bring in players the caliber of Seraphin and Henry.

[littlecoyotecoin]

We absolutely have an idea. Anyway, I just don't see it. You have to be a freak athlete to be his size and able to credibly defend guards.

To an extent, sure. But they're still going to bring in a second natural SG. From the mid-aughts on, they've clearly prioritized having a lot of guards who can provide secondary ball handling. I don't see them going away from that all of a sudden; not with the way the game is trending.

True. I just mean someone who doesn't need the ball, can shoot the three at least adequately and at least has the physical tools to be a neutral defender. Rebounding on the wings is far down the priority list, particularly with arguably the best rebounding wing in the league already on the team.

They don't have to pick one or the other. It's not going to cost much to bring in players the caliber of Seraphin and Henry.

I would like to see Hanga get his shot soon. He's getting long in the tooth, but he's pretty good defensively, and he's a pretty good athlete. His shooting may be a little sketchy, but he's more athletic than Belli, Anderson, Green...which would be a nice change of pace. What are the opinions on Hanga? Has that ship sailed?

[Chinook]

We absolutely have an idea. Anyway, I just don't see it. You have to be a freak athlete to be his size and able to credibly defend guards.

To an extent, sure. But they're still going to bring in a second natural SG. From the mid-aughts on, they've clearly prioritized having a lot of guards who can provide secondary ball handling. I don't see them going away from that all of a sudden; not with the way the game is trending.

True. I just mean someone who doesn't need the ball, can shoot the three at least adequately and at least has the physical tools to be a neutral defender. Rebounding on the wings is far down the priority list, particularly with arguably the best rebounding wing in the league already on the team.

They don't have to pick one or the other. It's not going to cost much to bring in players the caliber of Seraphin and Henry.

In the iso league of year's past, that might be true. But in the team-defensively league of today, I think having elite length at the two as well as being very smart is more important than being athletic, especially against backups. Anderson doesn't even after to be a plus defender in his own right. He just has to be able to defend well enough to stay on the floor, like Beli does somehow.

They're trending away from it this year by keeping seven bigs while only having two healthy PGs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they bring in another two-guard, but that player's not likely to beat out Anderson/Jean-Charles. The SG FA class is really weak next year. It would be nice for them to bring one over from Europe or something, but they won't find a good domestic one at a reasonable rate. Look at what scrubs like Meeks got.

You just said that Diaw was a poor rebounder for a big, so having a small-forward who is a great positional rebounder would be huge. He and Anderson be able to make up for Diaw's production and even take pressure of them to find a rebounding center (like a Reggie Evans). Also remember that this supposes that Tim retires, so his dominant per-minute rebounding would also be gone.

Seraphin is making about $4 Million this season. He probably won't play a whole lot, but he'll still get at least room-exception money in 2015. I could see Henry commanding the same, and obviously since I don't think Henry is good enough, anyone better than him would command more than the room exception.

[TD 21]

I would like to see Hanga get his shot soon. He's getting long in the tooth, but he's pretty good defensively, and he's a pretty good athlete. His shooting may be a little sketchy, but he's more athletic than Belli, Anderson, Green...which would be a nice change of pace. What are the opinions on Hanga? Has that ship sailed?

He was always unlikely to ever play in the league and I doubt anything has changed on that front.



In the iso league of year's past, that might be true. But in the team-defensively league of today, I think having elite length at the two as well as being very smart is more important than being athletic, especially against backups. Anderson doesn't even after to be a plus defender in his own right. He just has to be able to defend well enough to stay on the floor, like Beli does somehow.

They're trending away from it this year by keeping seven bigs while only having two healthy PGs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they bring in another two-guard, but that player's not likely to beat out Anderson/Jean-Charles. The SG FA class is really weak next year. It would be nice for them to bring one over from Europe or something, but they won't find a good domestic one at a reasonable rate. Look at what scrubs like Meeks got.

You just said that Diaw was a poor rebounder for a big, so having a small-forward who is a great positional rebounder would be huge. He and Anderson be able to make up for Diaw's production and even take pressure of them to find a rebounding center (like a Reggie Evans). Also remember that this supposes that Tim retires, so his dominant per-minute rebounding would also be gone.

Seraphin is making about $4 Million this season. He probably won't play a whole lot, but he'll still get at least room-exception money in 2015. I could see Henry commanding the same, and obviously since I don't think Henry is good enough, anyone better than him would command more than the room exception.

Even if he could, I fail to see a viable reason as to why they would attempt to shoehorn him into being an SG. Jean-Charles/Bertans are middling prospects and there's no reason they can't afford someone of or slightly beneath Belinelli's caliber.

They're not. Almost every perimeter player on the team provides at least secondary ball handling. Weak class or not, it's a clear need and one I expect them to prioritize and fill. It could easily be as simple as Ginobili deciding to play another season, in which case it doesn't become an issue for another year.

How the pieces fit offensively/defensively matters most. Plus, with Anderson's length, he might be a solid defensive rebounding wing and Diaw will likely continue to play a good amount alongside Leonard.

Maybe not. Look at Udoh; he's still unsigned and is probably looking at a minimum deal at this point. Davis already got the minimum. I realize Seraphin is more of a C, but still. They can probably split the MLE on two players of Seraphin's and Henry's caliber.

[Chinook]

Even if he could, I fail to see a viable reason as to why they would attempt to shoehorn him into being an SG. Jean-Charles/Bertans are middling prospects and there's no reason they can't afford someone of or slightly beneath Belinelli's caliber.

They're not. Almost every perimeter player on the team provides at least secondary ball handling. Weak class or not, it's a clear need and one I expect them to prioritize and fill. It could easily be as simple as Ginobili deciding to play another season, in which case it doesn't become an issue for another year.

How the pieces fit offensively/defensively matters most. Plus, with Anderson's length, he might be a solid defensive rebounding wing and Diaw will likely continue to play a good amount alongside Leonard.

Maybe not. Look at Udoh; he's still unsigned and is probably looking at a minimum deal at this point. Davis already got the minimum. I realize Seraphin is more of a C, but still. They can probably split the MLE on two players of Seraphin's and Henry's caliber.

Anderson is a guard offensively. The Spurs will have plenty of forwards next season. So it's not really shoehorning him into anything. If he can defend the two, I am almost certain that's where he's going to play. That's just what his skill-set calls for right now. LJC and Bertans are about as good of prospects as any of the Spurs have drafted over the past few years with the exception of Leonard. Especially Jean-Charles is up there with Kyle Anderson. In a normal year, the Spurs would almost certainly spend the MLE to get another bench guard. But if next off-season is all about finding a max player to play the four, they won't have the cash to do so. They'll have to rely on their young players to carry their bench.

That's stretching it. Players like Green are rare in the NBA. Most legit wings can handle the ball as well as Leonard or Beli can. Outside of Manu, none of the wings can play the point, however. Obviously, Manu (or Duncan) coming back changes the whole alchemy of the roster. No one's disputing that. Anderson would compete for SF minutes if Ginobili is still around.

Anderson should be a fine rebounder in the NBA. That's not the question. The question is if LJC's rebounding would be redundant on the bench. It wouldn't. Right now, we're talking about a Mills/Anderson/Jean-Charles/Diaw/X lineup. We have no idea who that 'X' will be, so we can't really assume there will be more than two strong rebounders off the bench for now.

If we're talking MLE, a lot of things would have to end up going differently. Tim and Manu would have to come back, or the Spurs would have to trade for significant 2015 salary (like moving Ayres, Beli and Daye for Martin or Ilyasova) and extending Leonard. I can't imagine the team really having any big holes at all if they go into next July over the cap. Speaking of Udoh, I'm pretty surprised his name hasn't really come up this season. He's easily a better player than Baynes or Ayres since Jeff can't hit a jump shot.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I always assumed it was unlikely based upon his draft position, yet I keep hearing his name and NBA mentioned in the same sentence here and there. Usually, in regard to him not being ready, YET, and/or injury related. But, it just seems like there is some small underlying expectation that he may come. Whether it is him, or someone else, it would be nice to have someone in that mold when Ginobili hangs it up. Just like having a team full of extreme athletes doesn't necessarily win games, having zero extreme athletes doesn't necessarily give Pop as diverse a toolbox to win games with either.

[ElNono]

In the iso league of year's past, that might be true.

That's today's league too... these Spurs were just an absolute aberration. It's incredibly difficult to do what the Spurs did, and involve arcane things (to this league anyways) like all players buying in, a respected coach that can make sure no player gets outta line, players checking their egos at the door. As it was said during the NBA Finals, the Spurs cornered the market on pure of heart guys. But it's very rare that all pieces end up fitting like that, and a single 'bad' piece or two can completely derail it. The last team I remember playing like that was the ARG NT in their gold run back in 2004 (Pop was Team USA's assistant coach for that team and the similarities in gameplay between that ARG team and the current Spurs are uncanny).

The league is going to keep being iso heavy and P&R heavy. This league isn't moving towards 'team play', it's sticking with athleticism. There will be tweaks depending on what works: the 'modern' NBA is defined by the stretch 4, solid 3 point shooting, etc. Changes on pace will be always there, swinging between the Don Nelson/SSOL to the Grizzlies style low pace. But other than that, don't expect many teams, including the Spurs of the future, to play heavy team-ball...

[Chinook]

That's today's league too... these Spurs were just an absolute aberration. It's incredibly difficult to do what the Spurs did, and involve arcane things (to this league anyways) like all players buying in, a respected coach that can make sure no player gets outta line, players checking their egos at the door. As it was said during the NBA Finals, the Spurs cornered the market on pure of heart guys. But it's very rare that all pieces end up fitting like that, and a single 'bad' piece or two can completely derail it. The last team I remember playing like that was the ARG NT in their gold run back in 2004 (Pop was Team USA's assistant coach for that team and the similarities in gameplay between that ARG team and the current Spurs are uncanny).

The league is going to keep being iso heavy and P&R heavy. This league isn't moving towards 'team play', it's sticking with athleticism. There will be tweaks depending on what works: the 'modern' NBA is defined by the stretch 4, solid 3 point shooting, etc. Changes on pace will be always there, swinging between the Don Nelson/SSOL to the Grizzlies style low pace. But other than that, don't expect many teams, including the Spurs of the future, to play heavy team-ball...

Talking more about defense. With the changes to hand-checking and illegal defense, players don't defend as much one on one anymore. While some teams call a lot of iso plays, good teams still defend with five guys.

Plus, do you really think teams are going to make their bench attack about isolating their backup two-guard consistently? I think there are very few second-string SGs who are really going to be a huge mismatch for Anderson.

[ElNono]

Talking more about defense. With the changes to hand-checking and illegal defense, players don't defend as much one on one anymore. While some teams call a lot of iso plays, good teams still defend with five guys.

Plus, do you really think teams are going to make their bench attack about isolating their backup two-guard consistently? I think there are very few second-string SGs who are really going to be a huge mismatch for Anderson.

One on one defense will always be here. There has always been solid one on one defenders, although right now it's more of a problem of players not embracing the role more than anything else. But the Ariza, Batum, Green are replacing the old school of Artest, Battier, Tony Allen...

Regardless of that, I do think most teams field bad defensive, but good offensive players for stretches. I don't think that would be a problem for playing Anderson, in any position, really.

What I guess I still don't understand is what's the endgame you see for Anderson as a Spur? I suspect they expect more than just being a backup SG when he's done with his rookie deal?

[Chinook]

What I guess I still don't understand is what's the endgame you see for Anderson as a Spur? I suspect they expect more than just being a backup SG when he's done with his rookie deal?

I think the Spurs will always value bench players. I think the team would love for Anderson to be able to play any of the middle positions and fit in with any unit. He could play at guard for the next couple of years before becoming a forward once Diaw moves on. Eventually, he could be a four if he bulks up and works on his post game. Or he may just play guard his whole career if the team consistently fields a strong bench front court.

I think the Spurs hope he can be the ultimate complimentary player. He can potentially fill a lot of holes and give the team a ton of flexibility next year.

[ElNono]

I think the Spurs will always value bench players. I think the team would love for Anderson to be able to play any of the middle positions and fit in with any unit. He could play at guard for the next couple of years before becoming a forward once Diaw moves on. Eventually, he could be a four if he bulks up and works on his post game. Or he may just play guard his whole career if the team consistently fields a strong bench front court.

I think the Spurs hope he can be the ultimate complimentary player. He can potentially fill a lot of holes and give the team a ton of flexibility next year.

I don't see it. Long term, if he's as good as advertised, he'll be too expensive to keep as a bench player. The ugly flipside would be that he's not that good. IMO, you can't think in terms of Manu's selflessness (great players sticking around willingly embracing a 6th man role at the sunrise of their careers). Even Manu was a starter at the apex of his NBA career, and 9.9/10 players would've bolted if they were sent to the bench playing at that level. What's more normal is for players to embrace those roles in the downside of their careers (Jamal Crawford, Mo Williams, etc).

I expect the Spurs to start developing him this season at the position they want him to play long term. Right now, I'm leaning front court, backing up Kawhi and Diaw.

[Chinook]

I don't see it. Long term, if he's as good as advertised, he'll be too expensive to keep as a bench player. The ugly flipside would be that he's not that good. IMO, you can't think in terms of Manu's selflessness (great players sticking around willingly embracing a 6th man role at the sunrise of their careers). Even Manu was a starter at the apex of his NBA career, and 9.9/10 players would've bolted if they were sent to the bench playing at that level. What's more normal is for players to embrace those roles in the downside of their careers (Jamal Crawford, Mo Williams, etc).

I expect the Spurs to start developing him this season at the position they want him to play long term. Right now, I'm leaning front court, backing up Kawhi and Diaw.

So you think he'll be a backup as well? The Spurs should have plenty of money in 2018 and no one to spend it on. If Anderson is good, they'll match whatever offer he gets. But Kyle isn't likely to start any time soon. Kawhi's the three, and the team will sign a four to a big deal as soon as Tim hangs them up. The only possible spot for Anderson would be the starting two. But then TD21's defensive concerns would be valid, especially since Kawhi is not a complete defender himself.

I don't think Anderson will ever start with the Spurs. Jean-Charles has a better chance than Kyle does, in my opinion.

[spurraider21]

since nono and chinook are going at it, i thought we could shift the topic to closing out 3 point shooters

:corn:

[ElNono]

So you think he'll be a backup as well? The Spurs should have plenty of money in 2018 and no one to spend it on. If Anderson is good, they'll match whatever offer he gets. But Kyle isn't likely to start any time soon. Kawhi's the three, and the team will sign a four to a big deal as soon as Tim hangs them up. The only possible spot for Anderson would be the starting two. But then TD21's defensive concerns would be valid, especially since Kawhi is not a complete defender himself.

I don't think Anderson will ever start with the Spurs. Jean-Charles has a better chance than Kyle does, in my opinion.

I think they'll be developing him with the idea of becoming starting material. I also think it's likely going to take 3-5 seasons for him to get there, if he can actually get there. With 3 seasons under his belt, the Spurs should have a clear idea what his ceiling is going to be, and act accordingly. It's difficult to look 3-5 years down the road, tbh... I'm not sold the Spurs can keep all the talent on the team, so opportunities will certainly be there.

[ElNono]

since nono and chinook are going at it, i thought we could shift the topic to closing out 3 point shooters

:corn:

:lol we're not "going at it"... just a friendly chatter, per par..

As far as the topic you brought up, run to the chest, you can't go wrong with that one. :wakeup

[exstatic]

So you think he'll be a backup as well? The Spurs should have plenty of money in 2018 and no one to spend it on. If Anderson is good, they'll match whatever offer he gets. But Kyle isn't likely to start any time soon. Kawhi's the three, and the team will sign a four to a big deal as soon as Tim hangs them up. The only possible spot for Anderson would be the starting two. But then TD21's defensive concerns would be valid, especially since Kawhi is not a complete defender himself.

I don't think Anderson will ever start with the Spurs. Jean-Charles has a better chance than Kyle does, in my opinion.
If you have a bad defender, wouldn't you rather hide him among good defenders? The Spurs best 3 defenders (Tim, Green Kawhi) all live in the starting unit. The ball also has a tendency to "stick" more with that group, which is why Diaw started against Miami.

I've been saying since day one that with his size, shooting, and rebounding abililty, his utimate position will be stretch 4. Most other stretch 4s are just shooters, and not penetrators, Kyle's real defensive weakness. I think once Tim leaves, Tiago is your rim protector, and you hide Kyle on defense as a 4, and he plays the Diaw "unstick" role.

[Spursfanfromafar]

If you have a bad defender, wouldn't you rather hide him among good defenders? The Spurs best 3 defenders (Tim, Green Kawhi) all live in the starting unit. The ball also has a tendency to "stick" more with that group, which is why Diaw started against Miami.

I've been saying since day one that with his size, shooting, and rebounding abililty, his utimate position will be stretch 4. Most other stretch 4s are just shooters, and not penetrators, Kyle's real defensive weakness. I think once Tim leaves, Tiago is your rim protector, and you hide Kyle on defense as a 4, and he plays the Diaw "unstick" role.


I think Kyle will be an ideal 6th man. Wouldn't need to expend much on defense against bad second teams and would be a killer with his passing ability and helping his coach come up with disruptive mismatch based rotations. As 6th man, he will be an ideal 3, a point forward. Sometimes, it is just enough to keep it simple. Anderson doesn't have a post game to play as a 4, nor does he have the strength to be a post defender (as yet). He can be an average 3 and a SF defender who can hide when required and play well as a perimeter oriented point forward.

[TD 21]

Anderson is a guard offensively. The Spurs will have plenty of forwards next season. So it's not really shoehorning him into anything. If he can defend the two, I am almost certain that's where he's going to play. That's just what his skill-set calls for right now

No question. But to me, in the vast majority of cases, you are what you're best off primarily guarding and for him, that's SF; so it would be shoehorning to attempt to have him defend SG's full time.


LJC and Bertans are about as good of prospects as any of the Spurs have drafted over the past few years with the exception of Leonard. Especially Jean-Charles is up there with Kyle Anderson.

Overall, they're both middling prospects. They've both got a shot at being rotation players down the road, but for a team trying to remain as competitive as possible, it would be foolish to rely on them in their rookie seasons.


In a normal year, the Spurs would almost certainly spend the MLE to get another bench guard. But if next off-season is all about finding a max player to play the four, they won't have the cash to do so. They'll have to rely on their young players to carry their bench.

Millsap is probably the ceiling and he's not getting the max.

Again though, I think you're underselling the odds of both Duncan and Ginobili returning for another season, which obviously changes a lot.


That's stretching it. Players like Green are rare in the NBA. Most legit wings can handle the ball as well as Leonard or Beli can.

I just meant they've basically went with one true SF for a while and played plenty of three guard lineups.


Anderson should be a fine rebounder in the NBA. That's not the question. The question is if LJC's rebounding would be redundant on the bench.

Maybe it somewhat changes when Duncan and Ginobili retire, but the way this team has operated for a long time, they basically have 7 starters and it's constant mixing and matching throughout. Besides, finding a big that's a high level rebounder is far more important than a wing.

[Chinook]

No question. But to me, in the vast majority of cases, you are what you're best off primarily guarding and for him, that's SF; so it would be shoehorning to attempt to have him defend SG's full time.

He doesn't have to defend twos full time anymore than Duncan defends power-forwards full time. Anderson and Jean-Charles could switch off assignments. But it's as I said earlier. There aren't really many bench twos to worry about, especially on contenders.


Overall, they're both middling prospects. They've both got a shot at being rotation players down the road, but for a team trying to remain as competitive as possible, it would be foolish to rely on them in their rookie seasons.

We're talking about ninth or tenth men here at best. There's nothing wrong with having a rookie in that position. In the post Big Three era, Leonard is almost certain to play more minutes than he is currently. So Anderson will get minutes at the two by default. We're simply talking about who will be fourth in line for wing minutes. I honestly think a combo-forward will make more sense than a guard, especially since the Spurs will have a couple sitting on their bench.


Millsap is probably the ceiling and he's not getting the max.

Again though, I think you're underselling the odds of both Duncan and Ginobili returning for another season, which obviously changes a lot.

Not underselling them coming back. It could definitely happen. I just think the odds of it happening are below .500.

There are definitely off-season scenarios in which the Spurs hand out large deals to two or three players rather than to one. I don't see the value in doing so for a wing, however. So we're really talking about scrubs versus unknowns.


I just meant they've basically went with one true SF for a while and played plenty of three guard lineups.

They have done so. That's primarily due to their roster constraints, though. The team simply had more guards than SFs in the past. That won't be the same in upcoming years.


Maybe it somewhat changes when Duncan and Ginobili retire, but the way this team has operated for a long time, they basically have 7 starters and it's constant mixing and matching throughout. Besides, finding a big that's a high level rebounder is far more important than a wing.

Obviously. But they don't have to wing a rebounding wing. They'll already have two. That frees them up to pursue bigs who aren't dominant rebounders, either as starting fours or bench fives. Players like Brook Lopez would benefit from playing spot minutes with Jean-Charles, for example.

[TD 21]

He doesn't have to defend twos full time anymore than Duncan defends power-forwards full time. Anderson and Jean-Charles could switch off assignments. But it's as I said earlier. There aren't really many bench twos to worry about, especially on contenders.

I'm skeptical Jean-Charles can defend SG's, too. Either way, as I said, I suspect they view Jean-Charles as more of a PF on offense. Plus, him next to Anderson would be putting a lot of pressure on Mills to almost singlehandedly provide scoring off the bench.


We're talking about ninth or tenth men here at best. There's nothing wrong with having a rookie in that position.

On most teams that's true, but on this one, the 9th and 10th men matter more than anywhere else. A rookie would be fine, if they were projected to be a immediate rotation player, like Leonard.


Not underselling them coming back. It could definitely happen. I just think the odds of it happening are below .500.

There are definitely off-season scenarios in which the Spurs hand out large deals to two or three players rather than to one. I don't see the value in doing so for a wing, however. So we're really talking about scrubs versus unknowns.

We'll see.

I don't think they'll hand a large deal out to a wing either, which is why I said a Belinelli caliber (or slightly below) player.


Obviously. But they don't have to wing a rebounding wing. They'll already have two. That frees them up to pursue bigs who aren't dominant rebounders, either as starting fours or bench fives. Players like Brook Lopez would benefit from playing spot minutes with Jean-Charles, for example.

They don't have to either way. Leonard is dominant, Green is adequate and Anderson should be, too. Even if you add Jean-Charles, adding a dominant rebounding big becomes no less of a need, since wings can only impact rebounding so much.

[Baam]

Bump, could happen much sooner than we think tbh...

[TheGreatYacht]

Outplaying him already tbh

[ElNono]

There is no "by default". The Spurs listed Anderson as a two-guard for the summer league. That's how they think of him. Sure, they gave him an SF sublisting, but they clearly don't share your opinion.

Looks like he's penned for SF now... yesterday when Danny was pulled early to have a convo with Pop, Belli went in... I suspect he'll be Kawhi's backup if he's not playing for the Toros...

[spurs10]

I'm in the camp he's going to be Kawhi's back-up.

[Chinook]

Looks like he's penned for SF now... yesterday when Danny was pulled early to have a convo with Pop, Belli went in... I suspect he'll be Kawhi's backup if he's not playing for the Toros...

Beli is usually Kawhi's backup, so if he came in for Green, then that would mean that Kyle was the two-guard. He definitely played two-guard for most of the second half.

Anyway, no one was wondering if Anderson was going to play the three this season. Next season, the Spurs will have fewer guards and more forwards. That's why he's in line to play SG in 2015.

[ElNono]

Beli played the 2... he came in for Green because Pop wanted to talk to Danny, then after a couple plays, Danny went back in. Kyle started at the 3 and played there most of the game, IIRC, which is fine, I think he can play that position and he'll get minutes there, as Kawhi does get some solid rest during the season.

As I said earlier, I think the Spurs will try to develop Kyle at the position they would like him to play long-term. Not a classical PF/SF, but like Boris, a player that can move all the way out to the perimeter and stretch the floor.

[Chinook]

Beli played the 2... he came in for Green because Pop wanted to talk to Danny, then after a couple plays, Danny went back in. Kyle started at the 3 and played there most of the game, IIRC, which is fine, I think he can play that position and he'll get minutes there, as Kawhi does get some solid rest during the season.

As I said earlier, I think the Spurs will try to develop Kyle at the position they would like him to play long-term. Not a classical SF, but like Boris, a player that can move all the way out to the perimeter and stretch the floor.

Beli always comes in for Leonard (Manu comes in for Green). You can certainly argue that Kyle played SF (since he guarded threes and not twos for most of the first half). It's just you can't use the Beli sub as evidence, since Beli plays most of his minutes at SF.

What's undeniable is that Anderson is the two when he played next to Daye or JaMychal Green. That happened both when Beli played PG in the third and during the fourth and OT, when Beli sat out.

[ElNono]

Beli always comes in for Leonard (Manu comes in for Green). You can certainly argue that Kyle played SF (since he guarded threes and not twos for most of the first half). It's just you can't use the Beli sub as evidence, since Beli plays most of his minutes at SF.

Manu did come for Green when it was his time to come off the bench. This was prior to that, apparently Pop wanted to talk to Danny about something. It lasted just a few plays (it's the usual Pop pulling a player out for some indications and back in). I thought it was interesting that Beli came in to play at the 2, instead of, say, Daye to play at the 3 and moving Kyle to the 2 spot. As you say, it might not be indicative of anything.


What's undeniable is that Anderson is the two when he played next to Daye or JaMychal Green. That happened both when Beli played PG in the third and during the fourth and OT, when Beli sat out.

Yeah, I don't look too much into scrub time, I suspect JMGreen/Cotton will be waived/sent to the Toros soon. I thought the first half was more indicative given the rotations. Obviously, we're dealing with a few perimeter issues here: Kawhi was out and Patty isn't available. I think Patty being out increases the chances for Marco to play at the 2, which is his natural position. We'll see how the rotations pan out once the season starts.

[spurs10]

Beli always comes in for Leonard (Manu comes in for Green). You can certainly argue that Kyle played SF (since he guarded threes and not twos for most of the first half). It's just you can't use the Beli sub as evidence, since Beli plays most of his minutes at SF. What's undeniable is that Anderson is the two when he played next to Daye or JaMychal Green. That happened both when Beli played PG in the third and during the fourth and OT, when Beli sat out. Probably will be a mix, but I'm wondering if Kyle wasn't ultimately meant as a 3. I suppose Beli and KA both guard the 3 better than the two, but Danny can't play 48 minutes. Is it likely KA will be the 3rd string 3 behind Beli? Beli is certainly behind Green and Manu at the 2.

[Chinook]

Manu did come for Green when it was his time to come off the bench. This was prior to that, apparently Pop wanted to talk to Danny about something. It lasted just a few plays (it's the usual Pop pulling a player out for some indications and back in). I thought it was interesting that Beli came in to play at the 2, instead of, say, Daye to play at the 3 and moving Kyle to the 2 spot. As you say, it might not be indicative of anything.

:rolleyes C'mon, Nono.


Yeah, I don't look too much into scrub time, I suspect JMGreen/Cotton will be waived/sent to the Toros soon. I thought the first half was more indicative given the rotations. Obviously, we're dealing with a few perimeter issues here: Kawhi was out and Patty isn't available. I think Patty being out increases the chances for Marco to play at the 2, which is his natural position. We'll see how the rotations pan out once the season starts.

Don't disagree, except I think we'll see Cotton and J Green stick around until the bitter end. Cotton, because the team needs PG depth for the pre-season. Green, because he's been the best of the camp contracts. I think the team will want to keep JaMychal around in case something comes up with the reserve bigs.

[Chinook]

Probably will be a mix, but I'm wondering if Kyle wasn't ultimately meant as a 3. I suppose Beli and KA both guard the 3 better than the two, but Danny can't play 48 minutes. Is it likely KA will be the 3rd string 3 behind Beli? Beli is certainly behind Green and Manu at the 2.

I don't think Anderson will have a consistent role this year outside of a long-term injury or a trade. In 2015, the Spurs currently have no SGs signed besides Anderson and only project to re-sign Green with any confidence. They also project to bring in two combo-forwards, so there may not be a ton of incentive to pay for a two-guard. So I think Anderson will play SG for a while. In a few years when Diaw leaves, one of more of new SFs will be in line to play the four, which will open up the three again.

That's why I said that Anderson's long-term future if he stays with the Spurs is as a utility player who plays multiple position. As he gets older, I think he'll be more of a forward and less of a wing, though.

[Baam]

Imo he has it in him to become the starting PG one day.

Playing with Green and KY is the best way to hide him on D, and playing O from the PG position would be the biggest mismatch, it just makes sense...

[spurs10]

I don't think Anderson will have a consistent role this year outside of a long-term injury or a trade. In 2015, the Spurs currently have no SGs signed besides Anderson and only project to re-sign Green with any confidence. They also project to bring in two combo-forwards, so there may not be a ton of incentive to pay for a two-guard. So I think Anderson will play SG for a while. In a few years when Diaw leaves, one of more of new SFs will be in line to play the four, which will open up the three again. That's why I said that Anderson's long-term future if he stays with the Spurs is as a utility player who plays multiple position. As he gets older, I think he'll be more of a forward and less of a wing, though. Thanks, all makes sense. Thought it was promising for Kyle to see so many minutes and do well. While Patty is out I guess it's possible to keep Kyle and Green.

[ElNono]

:rolleyes C'mon, Nono.

:lol gotta look at the little things... it's all we have to look at right now. We'll know more in about 10 days...


Don't disagree, except I think we'll see Cotton and J Green stick around until the bitter end. Cotton, because the team needs PG depth for the pre-season. Green, because he's been the best of the camp contracts. I think the team will want to keep JaMychal around in case something comes up with the reserve bigs.

I think they're both going to be gone, either waived or to the Toros. I don't see a depth problem at PG, tbh, at least not a problem Cotton can solve. Shorthanded, sure, problem, I don't see it. I like JM's energy, but I get the feeling we're gonna roll with last season's rotation barring any injury.


In 2015, the Spurs currently have no SGs signed besides Anderson and only project to re-sign Green with any confidence.

I would disagree with this. I think Manu will likely be back unless he's hurt a lot this season, and I also think Beli would be willing to come back provided he's offered a reasonable number.

[Chinook]

:lol gotta look at the little things... it's all we have to look at right now. We'll know more in about 10 days...

All right.


I think they're both going to be gone, either waived or to the Toros. I don't see a depth problem at PG, tbh, at least not a problem Cotton can solve. Shorthanded, sure, problem, I don't see it. I like JM's energy, but I get the feeling we're gonna roll with last season's rotation barring any injury.

Yeah, neither is making the team unless someone really wants Ayres in a trade. I think the Spurs will wait until the end of the PS to make the moves, though, especially for Cotton.


I would disagree with this. I think Manu will likely be back unless he's hurt a lot this season, and I also think Beli would be willing to come back provided a reasonable offer.

You keep up with Manu better than I do. But I don't get the feeling he's leaning toward playing another season in the NBA. We'll see. On Marco, I don't think his willingness has anything to do with this. The Spurs shouldn't spend valuable cap space re-signing him unless they strike out in free agency. They already lost their chance at a max slot by reupping Mills. They simple have to get some really good new talent in the off-season if Duncan and Manu sail away.

[ElNono]

You keep up with Manu better than I do. But I don't get the feeling he's leaning toward playing another season in the NBA. We'll see. On Marco, I don't think his willingness has anything to do with this. The Spurs shouldn't spend valuable cap space re-signing him unless they strike out in free agency. They already lost their chance at a max slot by reupping Mills. They simple have to get some really good new talent in the off-season if Duncan and Manu sail away.

Considering his comments, I would say right now Manu is a lock for another season, if the Spurs want him back (which I'm fairly sure they do, for reasons that go beyond basketball). The only thing I can definitely see derailing that is a nagging injury of any kind or TD hanging them up. As far as Marco, I think you're assuming Manu and Tim will be gone, and I'm not sold on that just yet. It will probably largely depend on how this season pans out. The Spurs do have a history of retaining 'corporate-knowledge' players, and Marco fits that criteria (for the right price). I think the Spurs will build around Kawhi anyways (or try), so I don't expect them to go into some sort of quest to try to replace Manu/TD (impossible anyways, IMO), but just try to put together the best team they can around Tony/KL.

[gilmor]

I really like this kid.. He has the tools to be great..

[look_at_g_shred]

I really like this kid.. He has the tools to be great..

[Brazil]

Did manu ever played for Austin tbh ?

[Beaverfuzz]

No, KA stinks. Overrated FUCLA player.

[spurraider21]

i wonder if he can replace De Colo tbh :lol

[testies]

Fucking american homers, as usual

[Cklbmk]

Fucking american homers, as usual

hey Ed, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're american too

[tholdren]

08-22-2014
#86 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238462&p=7563505&viewfull=1#post7563505)
tholdren (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=29395)

Believe.My TeamSan Antonio SpursPost Count1,556


Let me recap this thread:

Can Kyle Anderson, a 12 ppg scorer in college, replace one of the most decorated professional basketball players of all time?

BWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

Really? Im serious. I have no idea how this thread has made it to page three without any blue, or typos due to laughter. This shit cannot be real.

[Cklbmk]

Whos mind has changed

[cutewizard]

Can Kobe replace Manu?????


No


Hehehehehehehehehehehehe..............


Daenerys Targaryen and her dragons could replace Manu........................

[Chinook]

Not sure if I come out good or bad in this thread. Pretty bad considering that Manu is still here and LJC is back in France. But at the same time, Kyle has played a fair bit of two, albeit a year later than I had assumed.

I assume, though, that if Kyle does have a long-term role here, it would be as a three or four, because the team needs to get a rotational guard in the worst way this summer.

[bklynspursfan]

Not a chance. They play 2 totally different types of games anyway. To replace Manu, you not only need the wide array of skills he offers, but play with the same type of passion and fire. KA isn't that guy as we've seen since this thread started.

But to be fair, not many are.

[Brazil]

:lmao

[dabom]

:lmao

:lol

[DAF86]

We will never get another Manu, tbh. i.e: We will never get another hall of famer willing to come off the bench during his prime.

[Brazil]

:lol I was pretty spot on on this thread tbh

[SAGirl]

Not sure if I come out good or bad in this thread. Pretty bad considering that Manu is still here and LJC is back in France. But at the same time, Kyle has played a fair bit of two, albeit a year later than I had assumed.

I assume, though, that if Kyle does have a long-term role here, it would be as a three or four, because the team needs to get a rotational guard in the worst way this summer.
I agree. I think he played the 2 bc the team needed minutes there from someone, not bc it suited his skills.
We shall see what happens in the summer. I also agree they need a legit SG (Bryn Forbes, while a nice shooter ain't it either).

[TD 21]

Not sure if I come out good or bad in this thread. Pretty bad considering that Manu is still here and LJC is back in France. But at the same time, Kyle has played a fair bit of two, albeit a year later than I had assumed.

I assume, though, that if Kyle does have a long-term role here, it would be as a three or four, because the team needs to get a rotational guard in the worst way this summer.

It was a debate with me, so naturally the answer is bad. :lol

Between injuries and wanting to keep the bench intact, he's played some SG by default, but he hasn't primarily done so.

Many seem to think (hope?) his days are numbered, but he'll probably be around for a while. Even on an extension, he's not going to break the bank and with his ability to defensive rebound and cross match, he theoretically pairs well with Bertans.

[99 Problems]

We'll see Hanga this summer. He looks to be ready tbh.

[tholdren]

Let me recap this thread:

Can Kyle Anderson, a 12 ppg scorer in college, replace one of the most decorated professional basketball players of all time?

BWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

Really? Im serious. I have no idea how this thread has made it to page three without any blue, or typos due to laughter. This shit cannot be real.

I win

[TheGreatYacht]

Kyle Anderson is bigger and better. 10/10 thread... Pop runs his whole playbook for Manu, without it he's De Culo
My apologies to De Culo for comparing him to a scrub

[TMTTRIO]

I wish Manu would retire. I'm starting to think the only way he would is if the Spurs told him he couldn't come back which is never going to happen.

[Cklbmk]

Will Kyle Anderson be retained this offseason?

[dabom]

Nah.

[dabom]

If you're a fathead slurper, I don't feel bad for you. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

In a game where the Spurs couldn't stop scoring, Fathead Andershit never even started scoring :lol

This guy is absolutely worthless and proof advanced stats aren't shit.

[LittleCriminal]

This is the dumbest/worst thread I've ever seen in my life..
shit pile kyle is not even in the same breath as manu.

[tholdren]

Let me recap this thread:

Can Kyle Anderson, a 12 ppg scorer in college, replace one of the most decorated professional basketball players of all time?

BWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

Really? Im serious. I have no idea how this thread has made it to page three without any blue, or typos due to laughter. This shit cannot be real.

Called it

[Brunodf]

Solid 4/10 tbh
Looking like 1/10 now

[DMC]

You can replace Manu with anyone, they just won't be as good. There's no other player in the NBA or world who plays like Manu plays. That's why he's Manu Ginobili.

[LittleCriminal]

ANSWER: LOL GTFOH!!!!

[Pocho La Pantera]

Kyle Anderson is bigger and better. 10/10 thread... Pop runs his whole playbook for Manu, without it he's De Culo nooooo jajaja, this guy

[ElNono]

he got the turnovers in crunchtime down... he just needs to lose some hair and win 4 championships...

[TheGreatYacht]

he got the turnovers in crunchtime down... he just needs to lose some hair and win 4 championships...
Sadly there's no prime Duncan and Parker to carry him to them

[tholdren]

Let me recap this thread:

Can Kyle Anderson, a 12 ppg scorer in college, replace one of the most decorated professional basketball players of all time?

BWAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

Really? Im serious. I have no idea how this thread has made it to page three without any blue, or typos due to laughter. This shit cannot be real.

Pwned

[objective]

He's gotten so many minutes per game, started almost the whole season, and had the ball in his hands a ton ....

And he averages like 8 & 6.

Ugh

[SAGirl]

he got the turnovers in crunchtime down... he just needs to lose some hair and win 4 championships...
:lmao
now this sense of humor I totally dig.... made me legit laugh... he's kinda balding which is scary cause he's still young (and has the big head):lol

[Phenomanul]

Had Ginobili made that scoop shot falling out of bounds at the buzzer, it likely would've been the shot of the year. That was crazy it even had a chance of going in!!!

[TimDunkem]

Had Ginobili made that scoop shot falling out of bounds at the buzzer, it likely would've been the shot of the year. That was crazy it even had a chance of going in!!!

Manu stumbling out of bounds gave us a better chance than a Kyle iso.

Sad times...

[Phenomanul]

That whole sequence needs to be a GIF

For shame
For shame
For shame

[SAGirl]

Had Ginobili made that scoop shot falling out of bounds at the buzzer, it likely would've been the shot of the year. That was crazy it even had a chance of going in!!!
There was very little cutting and player movement or even passing to close the game. It wasn’t just that play. He made a mistake in picking up his dribble a couple of possessions b4 but his teammates observe that he was stuck and needed to pass out the ball after picking up the dribble and no one came to get the ball, notably Patty who he appeared to be looking to come get the ball. Someone could have cut and come in to help out making themselves available for a pas. It’s really easy to pile on him without getting the big picture that it’s a team game and he’s not going to be Kawhi and dominate in crunch time without help. It reflected poorly on him but the team too. Their execution as a team was poor.

BTW I don’t know if you noticed but Ingles shoved Manu out of bounds that’s why he was falling.