Avante and music

[TheSanityAnnex]

What's up dude. Need your input on this as you seem to be a plethora of musical knowledge.

How does he do this?

Is it music?

Is there skill involved?

Musicality?

Where does he draw his inspiration from?

What genre is it?

3vC5TsSyNjU

It is fascinating.

[spurraider21]

drew his inspiration from optimus prime

[TheSanityAnnex]

Avante after you are done with the first video take time to help me with the second.

Is this next guy a musician or just a talented motherfucking finger masher?

doFEQo8Hgck

Could he be considered a genius percussionist?

[cantthinkofanything]

What's up dude. Need your input on this as you seem to be a plethora of musical knowledge.

How does he do this?

Is it music?

Is there skill involved?

Musicality?

Where does he draw his inspiration from?

What genre is it?

It is fascinating.

Fascinating...that's a good word for it. I was thinking I'd watch for a few seconds but stayed for the whole show. I might get one of those things. And then find out, it's too hard.

[silverblk mystix]

They both suck balls and are in no way musicians.

The noise they both put out is really gay - although the first one had some "not so shitty parts" - yet was still gay.

[Avante]

What's up dude. Need your input on this as you seem to be a plethora of musical knowledge.

How does he do this?

Is it music?

Is there skill involved?

Musicality?

Where does he draw his inspiration from?

What genre is it?

3vC5TsSyNjU

It is fascinating.


You can bang on an empty coffee can and make music. I have some African tribal music where it's just a bunch of banging on various whatevers...outstanding!

I'd have to give that a try myself to be honest (talking both videos) before I could give some real opinion. I do play the harmonica, slide guitar and yep..coffee cans.

Infuenses and genre a mystery to me.

[ohmwrecker]

How does he do this? hand eye coordination and memorization

Is it music? yes

Is there skill involved? some

Musicality? rhythm

Where does he draw his inspiration from? simon

What genre is it? edm

[RD2191]

They both suck balls and are in no way musicians.

The noise they both put out is really gay - although the first one had some "not so shitty parts" - yet was still gay.

[DisAsTerBot]

of course it's music. it obviously takes some skill, though i doubt more than a traditional instrument.

if nothing else he keeps great time.

[TheSanityAnnex]

They both suck balls and are in no way musicians.

The noise they both put out is really gay - although the first one had some "not so shitty parts" - yet was still gay.I'm curious as to why you think they are in no way musicians

[Proxy]

Here are two videos. More chill... not as 'dancy' as edm. More enjoyable for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYv5jqHMe5c&index=61&list=FLXTLzDQ-2pCxYs8YHgxDXSg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9aAKr58svc&list=FLXTLzDQ-2pCxYs8YHgxDXSg&index=62

and it's pretty fuckin hard. I've got some friends in the music industry so I've had the chance to mess around a controller. It's harder than it looks, and they make it look simple. The way I see it, you won't be good without fundamental practice. These guys can kill on whatever traditional instrument.

Best example would be Bonobo, who I'd recommend to anyone. It's naive of anyone to think these guys aren't great musicians.

[silverblk mystix]

I'm curious as to why you think they are in no way musicians


Because they are not playing an instrument.

They are pushing buttons - which in turn - are already programmed to play a pre-recorded sample of real music.

The people in the studio who played an actual instrument and allowed an engineer to record them - are real musicians.

These button pushers are like the little kids that play video games - they played enough to reach "expert" status - but it doesn't make them experts at shooting guns, driving cars, running,jumping playing football or killing people - all they did was push buttons.


Same thing with these button pushers.

[DJR210]

Each one of those buttons plays a sound, and in a combination of those button presses you play a melody. It's not a typical instrument, but an instrument nonetheless.

Whether you care for that genre or not, that takes an extreme amount of skill and hand/eye coordination to do what they did on those videos.

[RD2191]

Bullshit, that's like claiming a Guitar Hero expert is a real musician.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Because they are not playing an instrument.

They are pushing buttons - which in turn - are already programmed to play a pre-recorded sample of real music.

The people in the studio who played an actual instrument and allowed an engineer to record them - are real musicians.

These button pushers are like the little kids that play video games - they played enough to reach "expert" status - but it doesn't make them experts at shooting guns, driving cars, running,jumping playing football or killing people - all they did was push buttons.


Same thing with these button pushers.

We agree a digital keyboard is an instrument yes?

All of the samples from the first video originally came from a keyboard/synth running through Abelton Live. So are you telling me that the guy in the first video is not a musician even though he created the samples himself albeit digitally and then assigned them to buttons to later manipulate in a way that would not be possible without the pad?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Here are two videos. More chill... not as 'dancy' as edm. More enjoyable for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYv5jqHMe5c&index=61&list=FLXTLzDQ-2pCxYs8YHgxDXSg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9aAKr58svc&list=FLXTLzDQ-2pCxYs8YHgxDXSg&index=62

and it's pretty fuckin hard. I've got some friends in the music industry so I've had the chance to mess around a controller. It's harder than it looks, and they make it look simple. The way I see it, you won't be good without fundamental practice. These guys can kill on whatever traditional instrument.

Best example would be Bonobo, who I'd recommend to anyone. It's naive of anyone to think these guys aren't great musicians.Bonobo is the shit, love that guy and have seen him many times.

I had a setup in my room I bought just to see how they all created what they did. Abelton live, novation launchpad, acai apc40, thousands of digital instruments, and a reaktor synth program. I could have produced an actual album from my room, minus mastering it of course. It was a ton of fun and really opened my eyes to how difficult it really it is to make quality music this way.

edit* m-audio digital keyboard with drum pad.....none of the above would have done shit without it.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Check out this Pretty Lights documentary if you have time. Instead of taking samples from old vinyl for his new album he goes out and records his own samples and presses them to vinyl, and then uses the new samples from the pressed vinyl to chop and remix for his album. It's a pretty rad idea and the music he creates is sick.

C402fprLRDw

Enjoy

[leemajors]

Check out this Pretty Lights documentary if you have time. Instead of taking samples from old vinyl for his new album he goes out and records his own samples and presses them to vinyl, and then uses the new samples from the pressed vinyl to chop and remix for his album. It's a pretty rad idea and the music he creates is sick.

C402fprLRDw

Enjoy

Break records essentially?

[silverblk mystix]

Each one of those buttons plays a sound, and in a combination of those button presses you play a melody. It's not a typical instrument, but an instrument nonetheless.

Whether you care for that genre or not, that takes an extreme amount of skill and hand/eye coordination to do what they did on those videos.



...but does this make them - musicians?

IMO - no


but hey - if this is a musician to you...

[silverblk mystix]

We agree a digital keyboard is an instrument yes?

All of the samples from the first video originally came from a keyboard/synth running through Abelton Live. So are you telling me that the guy in the first video is not a musician even though he created the samples himself albeit digitally and then assigned them to buttons to later manipulate in a way that would not be possible without the pad?


I guess - if you wanted to really stretch it -

maybe - the line is getting blurred -


I don't consider them musicians per se - but I see your point and - if they are manipulating sounds --and

they are also getting people to respond -


then - maybe they are.

[DJR210]

...but does this make them - musicians?

IMO - no


but hey - if this is a musician to you...

I think that anyone who creates music, no matter the medium, is a musician.


Bullshit, that's like claiming a Guitar Hero expert is a real musician.

Be real here. Guitar Hero has the pattern on screen, and there are five buttons on a toy guitar to push. This dude has 64 buttons each programmed with a different sound, and the patterns they are playing are not simple layouts. I understand not getting off to the genre, but I respect the difficulty of what they are doing.

[silverblk mystix]

I think that anyone who creates music, no matter the medium, is a musician.



Maybe -


I would say that a person who creates music on a music instrument - is a musician...


but a person who presses buttons on a device with pre-programmed music already recorded -


is a programmer - at best.

But - I understand where you are coming from and it might just be my stubborn traditional thinking getting in my way. I admit it.

[DJR210]

Controllerism is different that what's been posted, but Ean Golden creates some pretty six mixes..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWpnO_B0dvY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4DUUDw3mww

[Avante]

I can play the harmonica with my nose, dead serious. Yep...music.

[DJR210]

Maybe -


I would say that a person who creates music on a music instrument - is a musician...


but a person who presses buttons on a device with pre-programmed music already recorded -


is a programmer - at best.

But - I understand where you are coming from and it might just be my stubborn traditional thinking getting in my way. I admit it.

I just think the definition of musical instrument, and music itself has changed a lot over the past 10-15 years.

[Avante]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOMYHKWGTE

[silverblk mystix]

I just think the definition of musical instrument, and music itself has changed a lot over the past 10-15 years.

Agreed.

...however ...


Most people can put down something decent after an hour or two of familiarization with a program.

On the other hand - a musician learning an instrument sucks badly for weeks, months, sometimes years before becoming proficient or really decent.

I think this is a huge difference.

The first time I messed around with garageband and/or pro logic -

I had a few complete compositions within an hour or two.

My wife - who also knows how to play guitar and has written songs on guitar - picked up garageband for the first time and in an hour she had made a little cool song that I still play on my IPOD to this day - she threw in everything but the kitchen sink, strings, whistles,keys,horns,all kinds of percussion, etc...

but stayed with the same beat - except for breaks, etc.... it was a cool little rocking creative piece - in an hour!

Most kids can get up to speed really, really fast.


On a real instrument -

nope.

[leemajors]

Agreed.

...however ...


Most people can put down something decent after an hour or two of familiarization with a program.

On the other hand - a musician learning an instrument sucks badly for weeks, months, sometimes years before becoming proficient or really decent.

I think this is a huge difference.

The first time I messed around with garageband and/or pro logic -

I had a few complete compositions within an hour or two.

My wife - who also knows how to play guitar and has written songs on guitar - picked up garageband for the first time and in an hour she had made a little cool song that I still play on my IPOD to this day - she threw in everything but the kitchen sink, strings, whistles,keys,horns,all kinds of percussion, etc...

but stayed with the same beat - except for breaks, etc.... it was a cool little rocking creative piece - in an hour!

Most kids can get up to speed really, really fast.


On a real instrument -

nope.

Why are you assuming they haven't put in the same time with their instrument of choice?

[pgardn]

I thought part of playing a musical instrument well was a deft touch, mostly with the fingers, hands that caused unique pleasing vibrations in the instrument via strings, etc. resonating a properly made box, tube, etc...


Cello, violin, acoustic guitar, piano, the rich sounds that don't need a vibrating speaker. Speakers are the limiting factor imo. Isn't live music the best of all, especially when you can hear it without speakers? Playing your acoustic guitar next to your lady making her swoon and all that rot?

But I digress...

[silverblk mystix]

Why are you assuming they haven't put in the same time with their instrument of choice?


I'm not.

But it does not take anywhere near the same investment in time - to do what they are doing.

That was why I explained how easy it was to write a few compositions on a computer program.

[silverblk mystix]

I thought part of playing a musical instrument well was a deft touch, mostly with the fingers, hands that caused unique pleasing vibrations in the instrument via strings, etc. resonating a properly made box, tube, etc...


Cello, violin, acoustic guitar, piano, the rich sounds that don't need a vibrating speaker. Speakers are the limiting factor imo. Isn't live music the best of all, especially when you can hear it without speakers? Playing your acoustic guitar next to your lady making her swoon and all that rot?

But I digress...


All of that is important - but I still didn't see what your main point was.


A musician needs to learn and practice all those things and must have timing, control, touch, dexterity, discipline, etc....


and


they have to put all those things together and make it sound musical.

A programmer pushes buttons...sometimes fast...sometimes in really fast combinations...but he never created the music - he is usually pushing buttons of PRE-RECORDED sounds.

Everything has already been played/recorded/perfected/etc...


by real musicians.

[DJR210]

I'm not.

But it does not take anywhere near the same investment in time - to do what they are doing.

That was why I explained how easy it was to write a few compositions on a computer program.

Apples to oranges. Learning a sequencer or a recording program is not the same as manipulation of a midi pad with that many pads, and playing a song without any noticeable errors, as displayed in the video above.

[silverblk mystix]

Apples to oranges. Learning a sequencer or a recording program is not the same as manipulation of a midi pad with that many pads, and playing a song without any noticeable errors, as displayed in the video above.

Well, cmon - lets be real;


There are about 12 buttons.


12 buttons.


A child of 7 or 8 - can master those 12 buttons in a few days or weeks...


An adult doing the same - IMHO -

is not really that impressive to me.

[DJR210]

Well, cmon - lets be real;


There are about 12 buttons.


12 buttons.


A child of 7 or 8 - can master those 12 buttons in a few days or weeks...


An adult doing the same - IMHO -

is not really that impressive to me.

12 buttons on what? The video on page 1 is showing a dude on at least a 64 pad midi controller.

[silverblk mystix]

12 buttons on what? The video on page 1 is showing a dude on at least a 64 pad midi controller.


Ok...

64 buttons...

A month - tops - and you are proficient.

Not impressed.

[DJR210]

Ok...

64 buttons...

A month - tops - and you are proficient.

Not impressed.

But a guitar or bass has 4-6 strings?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Ok...

64 buttons...

A month - tops - and you are proficient.

Not impressed.
I think you are grossly underestimating the difficulty of these pads. Think about this when you pluck a guitar string you've got a pretty standard length of note. Each of these buttons can range from a quick drum hit to a 10 second long bass line, and everything in between. These pads you see also have "pages" that are programmed in to instantly switch to a new set of 64 pads. There are like 6 available pages of 64 programmable buttons available in a second, all with 64 differing lengths per button. Think about he skill/memory/finger control/rhythm that is needed to pull that shit off.

1 month??? Laughable.

[silverblk mystix]

But a guitar or bass has 4-6 strings?


And 21-22-24 frets....

for EACH string

[silverblk mystix]

I think you are grossly underestimating the difficulty of these pads. Think about this when you pluck a guitar string you've got a pretty standard length of note. Each of these buttons can range from a quick drum hit to a 10 second long bass line, and everything in between. These pads you see also have "pages" that are programmed in to instantly switch to a new set of 64 pads. There are like 6 available pages of 64 programmable buttons available in a second, all with 64 differing lengths per button. Think about he skill/memory/finger control/rhythm that is needed to pull that shit off.

1 month??? Laughable.


Haven't you ever played a video game?

At first - the remote is tricky - the controller - is tricky - and you get shot, flame out, or you run the car off the road -


A month later -


you are an expert.

Same shit.

[RD2191]

Nothing difficult about tapping a stupid little music box with programmed music. Try playing a simple song on guitar and see how long it takes you.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Haven't you ever played a video game?

At first - the remote is tricky - the controller - is tricky - and you get shot, flame out, or you run the car off the road -


A month later -


you are an expert.

Same shit.
You clearly did not read and truly think about what I just said. By the way did you watch that doc I posted? Not the same as these launchpad guys but an inside look into a genre you've probably never heard.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Nothing difficult about tapping a stupid little music box with programmed music. Try playing a simple song on guitar and see how long it takes you.
A simple song on a guitar is...rather simple.

[RD2191]

A simple song on a guitar is...rather simple.
Maybe so. But to make it sound the way it's supposed to sound and play it the way it is supposed to be played is rather difficult.

[silverblk mystix]

You clearly did not read and truly think about what I just said. By the way did you watch that doc I posted? Not the same as these launchpad guys but an inside look into a genre you've probably never heard.

I saw and listened to the first two videos where the guys were tap dancing like ten mother-fuckers and pushing buttons like monkeys on crack -


but the music didn't sound good to me - and every sound, every voice - like that Ozzy voice - was something that had already been done before - therefore - telling me that this person does not have the creativity to create his own new sounds, vocals, melodies - but can only play with stuff that others already created.

Not the same IMHO - as creating ORIGINAL stuff.

[RD2191]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPu_G-T28iU

[RD2191]

Real musician and a real artist.

[silverblk mystix]

I wonder how long it would take the average person to learn this little simple song?


wsePsTEgiqU

[spurraider21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAhZZc_Bwps

[RD2191]

I wonder how long it would take the average person to learn this little simple song?


wsePsTEgiqU
No words and I almost teared up.

[RD2191]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAhZZc_Bwps
Awesome, though he is Asian so he has probably been playing for many years and they also have incredible work ethic and want to do the best in whatever they are studying/practicing/learning.

[silverblk mystix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAhZZc_Bwps



A musician.

[spurraider21]

Awesome, though he is Asian so he has probably been playing for many years and they also have incredible work ethic and want to do the best in whatever they are studying/practicing/learning.
theres one point where he slips up, and he's probably thinking "i have brought great dishonor to my family" at that moment

[Avante]

The truth of the matter is you don't even need a instrument if ya have rhytmn. I can turn around from this computer desk and start stomping my right foot while slapping my left thigh. Boom...music! Obviously without rhyhmn and beat.....boom...shit.

You guys are getting carried away with this.

[spurraider21]

her videos are amazing on mute tbh :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYdIThSgUjc

[silverblk mystix]

The truth of the matter is you don't even need a instrument if ya have rhytmn. I can turn around from this computer desk and start stomping my right foot while slapping my left thigh. Boom...music! Obviously without rhtyhm and beat.....boom...shit.

You guys are getting away with this.


What would you sing?


A poem about clitter nation?


:lmao:lmao

[RD2191]

theres one point where he slips up, and he's probably thinking "i have brought great dishonor to my family" at that moment
:lol

[silverblk mystix]

her videos are amazing on mute tbh :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYdIThSgUjc


Well, she has TWO obvious talents!


:lol:lol

[RD2191]

her videos are amazing on mute tbh :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYdIThSgUjc
I think people often mistake having a nice voice with knowing how to sing. Great tits though.

[spurraider21]

I think people often mistake having great tits with knowing how to sing
fify

[Avante]

What would you sing?


A poem about clitter nation?


:lmao:lmao

Keep in mind...stomping and slapping.

da da da da dut
woke up this mornin'
da da da dut
bout the breakaday
da da da dut
lookin' for the faggot clitter nation
da da da dut
the boy done ran away

he was little and frail
da da da dut
actually all shot to hell
da da da dut
too many nights on his knees
da da da dut
trying to please
da da da dut

[silverblk mystix]

Keep in mind...stomping and slapping.

da da da da dut
woke up this mornin'
da da da dut
bout the breakaday
da da da dut
lookin' for the faggot clitter nation
da da da dut
the boy done ran away

he was little and frail
da da da dut
actually all shot to hell
da da da dut
too many nights on his knees
da da da dut
trying to please
da da da dut



:lmao:lmao


a musician!

[TheSanityAnnex]

C402fprLRDw

[leemajors]

Nothing difficult about tapping a stupid little music box with programmed music. Try playing a simple song on guitar and see how long it takes you.

Try using a hammered dulcimer, that takes real talent

[pgardn]

The truth of the matter is you don't even need a instrument if ya have rhytmn. I can turn around from this computer desk and start stomping my right foot while slapping my left thigh. Boom...music! Obviously without rhyhmn and beat.....boom...shit.

You guys are getting carried away with this.

I think they have moved from checkers to chess.

[pgardn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAhZZc_Bwps

He plays the notes. It's incredible.

Buts it's just not there. Don't get me wrong the kid is incredible. But the loud to soft, the timing, the emphasis, it's not there. I think he knows the song but he does not feel it. He mimics it. And how could he feel it, he's like what, 5-10? There is playing for communication, that's old stuff, the banging etc, and then there is the emotional side that evolved from this simple communication. When a song can convey a subtle mood, that's pretty awesome imo.

[silverblk mystix]

He plays the notes. It's incredible.

Buts it's just not there. Don't get me wrong the kid is incredible. But the loud to soft, the timing, the emphasis, it's not there. I think he knows the song but he does not feel it. He mimics it. And how could he feel it, he's like what, 5-10? There is playing for communication, that's old stuff, the banging etc, and then there is the emotional side that evolved from this simple communication. When a song can convey a subtle mood, that's pretty awesome imo.


I agree with you 100% and almost posted the same thing....


then I realized -


he is a little child!!!!


Give him a break - he is already waaaay advanced for his age and will only get better.

It is frightening how much better he will become.

[cantthinkofanything]

I agree with you 100% and almost posted the same thing....


then I realized -


he is a little child!!!!


Give him a break - he is already waaaay advanced for his age and will only get better.

It is frightening how much better he will become.


There are lots of kids that would appear super advanced. But like pgardn said, they're just memorizing notes. It's not much different than a video game sequence. Not saying that he won't be good or even great, but that will depend on his musical grown mentally and not just technically.

Start a smart kid early on something and they'll pick it up.

[spurraider21]

He plays the notes. It's incredible.

Buts it's just not there. Don't get me wrong the kid is incredible. But the loud to soft, the timing, the emphasis, it's not there. I think he knows the song but he does not feel it. He mimics it. And how could he feel it, he's like what, 5-10? There is playing for communication, that's old stuff, the banging etc, and then there is the emotional side that evolved from this simple communication. When a song can convey a subtle mood, that's pretty awesome imo.
Yeah he's like 6 in that video so I'll cut him slack

[cantthinkofanything]

Yeah he's like 6 in that video so I'll cut him slack

after learning Chinese, I'm sure everything else is a cakewalk.

[Proxy]

Bonobo is the shit, love that guy and have seen him many times.

I had a setup in my room I bought just to see how they all created what they did. Abelton live, novation launchpad, acai apc40, thousands of digital instruments, and a reaktor synth program. I could have produced an actual album from my room, minus mastering it of course. It was a ton of fun and really opened my eyes to how difficult it really it is to make quality music this way.

edit* m-audio digital keyboard with drum pad.....none of the above would have done shit without it.

when I listened to Black Sands... just remember being blown away. I'm happy for him to be getting more popular. He deserves it.

that's really badass, man. I wish I had your tools and practice to at least attempt to make some kind of personal project. It's super fuckin impressive to see people control an entire song on their own.

[Proxy]

more food for thought

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNeCHI4NAzw

Missed her at ACL a few years ago and haven't had the chance to see her again.

Also, on the topic of talent and what music is... Yngwie Malmsteen and Buckethead as the two examples I think of. Stupid good at playing guitar. I could watch them shred for hours, but I think their music sounds like shit. Because of that, I'd say the instrument is an insignificant variable when discussing what music is.

[Avante]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMgrN-ghWH4