Thaddeus Young traded to Minny

[ElNono]

502665049618784256

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/done-deal-thaddeus-young-traded-042036542.html

[Chinook]

Great deal for Minny comparatively. They get to keep Bennett or trade him for more assets. A first for Young was good enough, even though it's pretty foolish of the Wolves to even acquire him.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both Shved and Mbah a Moute waived now or at least after the trade deadline. Both guys can help a team. The Philly tank continues.

Also, this is a strong sign the league is not going to block the Love trade.

[TDMVPDPOY]

league needs to do something about clowns who continue to get top5picks consecutive years

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Shameless tanking for Philly again. At least the previously reported deal, including Bennett, was somewhat more basketball oriented. You could have thought they'd want to try and develop him for a year and see where he's at as a player.

On a side note, will their players be the most highly paid rookies, considering they're unlikely to meet the salary cap bottom?

[jimbo]

Man how are the Cavs this fucking retarded. They're getting fleeced by fucking Flip Saunders.

[AaronY]

Man how are the Cavs this fucking retarded. They're getting fleeced by fucking Flip Saunders.
Who even knows how good Wiggins will be at this point. Too early to make any kind of judgments really

[TD 21]

Trading for Young is foolish, since they'll either have to overpay to re-sign him (and if they do, they'll prevent Bennett from getting significant minutes going forward; though this season should largely determine whether he'll ever be worthy of such minutes) or they'll lose him in a season and have given a 1st away in the process.

Nonetheless, the overall haul is the best collection of assets I can ever remember seeing for a player of Love's stature. The Anthony one is seemingly the measuring stick, but there was no star potential in that.

[baseline bum]

Who even knows how good Wiggins will be at this point. Too early to make any kind of judgments really

LOL, no shit. They're trading two guys with tons of question marks for a top 5 player. People are acting like they're trading a rookie Anthony Davis. Could you imagine people's reactions if it was a couple of years ago and the picks were Derrick Williams or Thomas Robinson? Everyone loved them too.

[Franklin]

Wolves will be a better team next season than they were the past season, a legit competitor for the 8th seed imho. At least they replaced a stat-padder with a real leader in Wiggins.

[Chinook]

The Wolves are stock-piling talent. They need to tank now (which is why trading for Young is stupid in premise as well as in practice). Their best chance is to land some elite talent in the draft that allows them to trade some of their other young players for another star.

[eDizzle20]

The Wolves are the clear winners of this trade. They were going to lose Love at the end of the upcoming season anyway and they manage to get the last 2 years #1 picks and a proven power forward and only having to give up Love, Shved, Luc, and Miami's 2015 1st rounder. The Wolves now have a promising young team.

[jimbo]

Who even knows how good Wiggins will be at this point. Too early to make any kind of judgments really

It doesn't matter how good Wiggins is, Love is leaving the Timberwolves no matter what at the end of the season. (and probably plans on being a free agent regardless of where he goes for contract negotiating purposes)

The Wolves have zero leverage and are still pulling this off. That's absurd.

[AaronY]

It doesn't matter how good Wiggins is, Love is leaving the Timberwolves no matter what at the end of the season. (and probably plans on being a free agent regardless of where he goes for contract negotiating purposes)

The Wolves have zero leverage and are still pulling this off. That's absurd.
Cavs are contenders now. If they wait till the off season they waste a year of lebron's prime. Plus if Wiggins sucks what exactly would the Wolves have pulled off?

[Cry Havoc]

If Minny develops the talent they have, they're going to be a very, very good team soon.

[gnsf0946]

If Minny develops the talent they have, they're going to be a very, very good team soon.

This is Minny we talking about, it's just not happening

[RD2191]

This is Minny we talking about, it's just not happening
:lol

[baseline bum]

If Minny develops the talent they have, they're going to be a very, very good team soon.

Like they did with Derrick Williams, Wesley Johnson, Johnny Flynn, and Shabazz Muhammad? Minnesota is where promising young careers get stillborn tbh.

[Cry Havoc]

Like they did with Derrick Williams, Wesley Johnson, Johnny Flynn, and Shabazz Muhammad? Minnesota is where promising young careers get stillborn tbh.

To be sure, but you never know. Stranger things have happened (ok not really but still).

[spurraider21]

Cavs are contenders now. If they wait till the off season they waste a year of lebron's prime. Plus if Wiggins sucks what exactly would the Wolves have pulled off?
Wiggins is a damn good prospect. you can't really predict a player busting.

[baseline bum]

Man, I think I heard the biggest retard in the history of radio a few minutes ago. I had Ticket760 on and this idiot from a piece of shit site called Hoopscritic.com was raving about how Wiggins was the best prospect since Kevin Durant. :lmao

Better prospect than Anthony Davis? Or Gangster Disciple?

[jimbo]

Cavs are contenders now. If they wait till the off season they waste a year of lebron's prime. Plus if Wiggins sucks what exactly would the Wolves have pulled off?

They were contenders even without Love. The Cavs were contenders with Lebron and a bag of shit, you think they're not contenders with Lebron, Kyrie and a couple 1st overall picks?

I don't give a fuck about a year of Lebron's prime if I'm the Cavs. The odds stack up better for multiple championships if you DONT mortgage your future to let Lebron play GM. Do the math yourself, you'd have to think Wiggins and Bennett are 100% busts to think they've got a better chance at winning multiple championships with Love for one year and no one in the future vs Wiggins/Bennett this year and Love/Wiggins in the future.

Oh and Wiggins is never going to "suck." At worst his floor is very capable defender and great transition athlete. Even if all he does is learn to shoot 3s and adds nothing else to his game, that's a fantastic championship contender role player.

[spurraider21]

Oh and Wiggins is never going to "suck." At worst his floor is very capable defender and great transition athlete. Even if all he does is learn to shoot 3s and adds nothing else to his game, that's a fantastic championship contender role player.
you could argue his floor is wes johnson with a little more hops, not that i see that happening

[jimbo]

you could argue his floor is wes johnson with a little more hops, not that i see that happening

It'd be a bad argument

[Chinook]

Why are people thinking the Cavs could have signed Love next off-season? They couldn't. That's why they had to trade for him.

[spurraider21]

It'd be a bad argument
well, when talking about floors, as opposed to projections, one can't really be sure

[jimbo]

Why are people thinking the Cavs could have signed Love next off-season? They couldn't. That's why they had to trade for him.

Couldn't you just ask me this directly?

You're telling me there's nothing the Cavs could do to dump salary in a way to sign love?

[jimbo]

well, when talking about floors, as opposed to projections, one can't really be sure

You can, and I am.

[Chinook]

Couldn't you just ask me this directly?

You're telling me there's nothing the Cavs could do to dump salary in a way to sign love?

It's not just you, bro. People have been saying this for weeks.

Anyway, no. Love is going to make about $4 Million more than he is this year. Irving is going to make at least $8 Million more. They'd be pushing the cap with just James, Irving and Waiters. They couldn't fit Love under this year. How on Earth were they going to next year?

[jimbo]

It's not just you, bro. People have been saying this for weeks.

Anyway, no. Love is going to make about $4 Million more than he is this year. Irving is going to make at least $10 Million more. They'd be pushing the cap with just James, Irving and Waiters.

Tbh I just thought it'd be nice to direct it at a guy who had that thought who was currently posting in the thread.

& Lebron has his player option though and Waiters is a team option. Do they stay on the books even after they've declined them? I would assume they would go off the books, but they'd lose bird rights-- but I also know jack about any of this off my head.

[Chinook]

Tbh I just thought it'd be nice to direct it at a guy who had that thought who was currently posting in the thread.

& Lebron has his player option though and Waiters is a team option. Do they stay on the books even after they've declined them? I would assume they would go off the books, but they'd lose bird rights-- but I also know jack about any of this off my head.

They would still have their cap holds.

[jimbo]

They would still have their cap holds.

Okay thats what I meant, I wasn't sure when their cap holds expired.

[Chinook]

Okay thats what I meant, I wasn't sure when their cap holds expired.

When they are renounced or when the player signs a new contract. Otherwise, they last forever, as the Spurs can attest to. They still have Robert Horry's hold.

[ElNono]

Looking forward to Irving, Love watching James try to bail them out when the shit hits the fan...

[jimbo]

When they are renounced or when the player signs a new contract. Otherwise, they last forever, as the Spurs can attest to. They still have Robert Horry's hold.

Ah yeah, that's also what I meant by "declined" the option. Couldn't think of the word for it. I mean it's kinda what makes sense...

and in that case I don't see why they couldn't have signed Love. Yeah, not with their current roster in place...but you've always got the option to resign Lebron to lower his cap hold.


Cap is projected at 66.5 for 15-16.

Guaranteed amounts
Irving at 18.28 (27.5% of the cap)
Wiggins at 5.758
Joe Harris at .845

Total: 24.883


Expected signings
Lebron at 21.574
Love at 19.95 (30% of the cap)

Total: 41.524

Roster Charges: 4,200,784


So that's 70.6M, so they'd just have to get a combo of Love/Lebron/Wiggins to take 4.1 mil less...

You'd have to renounce these guys, or convince Love/Lebron again to take less to keep either of Bennett or Waiters.

Thompson at 7.15
Bennett at 5.7
Waiters at 5.1


So I mean what am I missing here? Because it definitely seems plausible on paper if what I'm writing is correct

[Chinook]

Ah yeah, that's also what I meant by "declined" the option. Couldn't think of the word for it. I mean it's kinda what makes sense...

and in that case I don't see why they couldn't have signed Love. Yeah, not with their current roster in place...but you've always got the option to resign Lebron to lower his cap hold.


Cap is projected at 66.5 for 15-16.

Guaranteed amounts
Irving at 18.28 (27.5% of the cap)
Wiggins at 5.758
Joe Harris at .845

Total: 24.883


Expected signings
Lebron at 21.574
Love at 19.95 (30% of the cap)

Total: 41.524

Roster Charges: 4,200,784


So that's 70.6M, so they'd just have to get a combo of Love/Lebron/Wiggins to take 4.1 mil less...

You'd have to renounce these guys, or convince Love/Lebron again to take less to keep either of Bennett or Waiters.

Thompson at 7.15
Bennett at 5.7
Waiters at 5.1


So I mean what am I missing here? Because it definitely seems plausible on paper if what I'm writing is correct

Wiggins can't take less. He's already under contract. So that's one issue. Also, Waiters and Bennett are under contract this season. They'd had to decline their options (and then renounce their cap holds -- those two things are different) in October of this season, well before they could have gotten a commitment from Love. They'd have also had to stash or trade away all their first-round picks and give up all except the room exception. They'd have to renounce Varejao and every other free agent (like Thompson. They couldn't even S&T him, since they'd need to decline his QO before renouncing him, taking away any leverage).

[jimbo]

Wiggins can't take less. He's already under contract. So that's one issue. Also, Waiters and Bennett are under contract this season. They'd had to decline their options (and then renounce their cap holds -- those two things are different) in October of this season, well before they could have gotten a commitment from Love. They'd have also had to stash or trade away all their first-round picks and give up all except the room exception. They'd have to renounce Varejao and every other free agent (like Thompson. They couldn't even S&T him, since they'd need to decline his QO before renouncing him, taking away any leverage).

With Wiggins I'm going ahead with the assumption that the Cavs are actually thinking a year in advance when signing his contract.

Rest of the post seems plausible though. Tbh they've got just as much assurance that Love will stay in 2015-16+ with that scenario as they do right now.

No one ever said making super-superteams would be easy.

[Chinook]

With Wiggins I'm going ahead with the assumption that the Cavs are actually thinking a year in advance when signing his contract.

The first-overall pick VERY rarely signs for less than 120 percent of the rookie scale. The only one I can think of doing so was Bargnani, who only did so because of his buyout. It makes no sense to ask him to take $1.5 Million less so that they can have a little more money to throw at some guy who may or may not have gone to them.


Rest of the post seems plausible though. Tbh they've got just as much assurance that Love will stay in 2015-16+ with that scenario as they do right now.

It wouldn't be about Love "staying". It would be about him signing in the first place. Love wouldn't be a Cav this season under your scenario, so they wouldn't have his Bird rights. Some other team would get him, his Bird rights and the best chance to keep him. Love's clearly about the money in large part, so even if he wanted to play with James, he'd probably re-sign with his new team. So they'd end up cutting two top-five picks and shedding another couple picks just to have a chance to sign Love. It makes much more sense for them to just trade all those things to actually secure him.


No one ever said making super-superteams would be easy.

It'd be a lot easier had they moved Irving instead.

[jimbo]

The first-overall pick VERY rarely signs for less than 120 percent of the rookie scale. The only one I can think of doing so was Bargnani, who only did so because of his buyout. It makes no sense to ask him to take $1.5 Million less so that they can have a little more money to throw at some guy who may or may not have gone to them.

Tbh, this would be a very rare scenario also though. I wouldn't think he'd take a mil less, but 500k? I remember Kawhi didn't take the max he could have as a rookie, didn't he? (wouldn't surprise me if I'm remembering this one wrong though)




It wouldn't be about Love "staying". It would be about him signing in the first place. Love wouldn't be a Cav this season under your scenario, so they wouldn't have his Bird rights. Some other team would get him, his Bird rights and the best chance to keep him. Love's clearly about the money in large part, so even if he wanted to play with James, he'd probably re-sign with his new team. So they'd end up cutting two top-five picks and shedding another couple picks just to have a chance to sign Love. It makes much more sense for them to just trade all those things to actually secure him.

Yeah this is the hardest part of the plan. I'm guessing the Wolves allowed the Cavs to talk to Love before the trade. So they'd have to feel him out then to see what he's thinking. I'm not so sure money is the most important thing here though. He'd been saying that he wasn't going to stay in Minnesota after this season, so he'd be giving up his shot at that extra year by leaving them. (& I think the Wolves would have just held onto him to hope he stayed since before the Cavs upbid themselves, no one was offering shit.) Who knows if he'd actually follow through with it.

Thompson is never gonna be a contender quality role player. (this is worded badly, but I mean like one of those role players everyone knows by name) His best shot at staying with the Cavs is to change his game to become more of a garbage man rather than the black hole he is now. Or just wait for the inevitable Love/Varejao injuries...

Bennett/Waiters would be a loss, but at that point if you think you've got a great shot at landing Love then you're asking yourself is Wiggins worth it over those 2 guys? He is. Plus I'm guessing teams w/ exceptions would be willing to take em on for future picks or something.



It'd be a lot easier had they moved Irving instead.

Definitely. He's not worth the cap room he's taking up. Not when you've got this many potential stars to replace him for cheaper.