Pat Robertson Calls For Assassination Of Hugo Chavez

[Nbadan]

Televangelist Robertson calls for assassination of Venezuelan president


VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson called today for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, calling him a "terrific danger" to the United States.

Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, said on "The 700 Club" it was the United States' duty to stop Chavez from making Venezuela a "launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."

Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002448996_webchavez22.html)

Can you say Fatwa?

So if a wacked-out Muslim clerics says it, it's terrorism, but if a wacked-out Christian televangelist says it it's? Patriotism?

[JoeChalupa]

He's losing it.

[Trainwreck2100]

Danny Danny Danny
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23858

I gotta give you the link
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

[cecil collins]

Wow, and that man talks to god, so we should probably listen to him. Religious extremists are gonna fuck this country.

[IcemanCometh]

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

[Useruser666]

The guy is a dumbass, what else is there to say.

[Trainwreck2100]

The guy is a dunbass, what else is there to say.


He is a dunbass, but he's not a cleric

[mcornelio]

hey... either we assasinate hugo or T.O... Pick one

[FromWayDowntown]

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

I take some solace in the fact that Pat Robertson can't send out Wing Attack Plan R over the CRM-114 discriminator.

At least I think he can't.

[nkdlunch]

He's losing it.

He lost it a loooong time ago.

His funniest statement: "Chavez got a lot of oil and could hurt us..." :lol

Get a fucking hybrid you motherfucker!

[SWC Bonfire]

hey... either we assasinate hugo or T.O... Pick one

Chavez. T.O. is definately a capitalist!

[nkdlunch]

White House dismisses assassination call

Bush administration officials Tuesday disavowed Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Venezuelan Vice President Vicente Rangel called Robertson's comments "criminal" and demanded U.S. action. Robertson -- founder of the Christian Coalition and a candidate for the 1988 Republican presidential nomination -- used his TV station label Chavez "a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us badly."

[samikeyp]

maybe if they let us take out Chavez....we can let them take out Robertson! :spin

[nkdlunch]

I'd take out Robertson for free, if I wasn't a Christian who beleives killing is a sin :angel

[Cant_Be_Faded]

what a disgrace
christian leaders calling for an assasination? perhaps people are not that different after all.

[Nbadan]

Media Matters Calls on ABC Family to Discontinue Robertson Broadcasts


WASHINGTON, Aug. 23 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following his Aug. 22 call for the United States to assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, Media Matters for America is urging ABC Family to stop showing Pat Robertson's The 700 Club. ABC Family shows The 700 Club three times a day.

Robertson, 700 Club host and founder of the Christian Coalition of America, has a history of vitriolic and false statements, as Media Matters has pointed out.

In addition to urging the assassination of a foreign leader, Robertson has blamed gays for divorce, abortion, and September 11, said that a gay-oriented event would bring about "terrorist bombs ... earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor," and stated that liberal judges are a bigger threat to society than Al Qaeda.

"Robertson's vitriol is not appropriate for children, or for anyone else, for that matter. His calls for the killing of a foreign leader certainly do not belong on a television channel that purports to offer family-friendly programming," said Media Matters for America President and CEO David Brock.

US Newswire (http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=52001)

Unfortunately for MediA Matters, when Pat Robertson sold C.B.N. to Fox,one of the stipulations was that the 700 Club had to be aired on the new Fox Family Channel. When Fox turned around and sold it to ABC, the Robertson requirement was still in the contract. However, Newsmax, as we know is probably one of the all-time biased "news dissemination" organization in this country. They make some of the most outrageous claims about Democrats and believe they are doing the country a service in the process, but now, its them not saying something that takes them to a new, hypocritical low.

Today they sent out e-mails with the story of Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of Venezuela's President. They used an AP story verbatim. Did they go tsk. tsk. at the end of the story? No. Did they condemn Robertson? No. Did they indicate that they were repulsed by Robertson's words? Not a chance. In fact, they said nothing. That super moral group of over the hill NEOCON journalists didn't have the guts to condemn anything about the story.

Their hypocrisy is beyond belief. How low are they willing to go?

[Useruser666]

Dan, who cares what Robertson says? You bring this up like someone that people actually listen to said it. :lol

[cherylsteele]

Next, we'll be hearing about Jerry Falwell's hopes for chose an assisnation target.

[Nbadan]

Dan, who cares what Robertson says? You bring this up like someone that people actually listen to said it. :lol

Maybe the millions who watch his CBN broadcast care?

[Jelly]

Maybe the millions who watch his CBN broadcast care?

So what. There comes a point where a public figure can only embarrass himself so many times before even ardent fans start turning away. Pat Robertson has been a laughing stock to most Americans for years. I don't see how any of his crackpot comments is anything to fret over.

[Nbadan]

Next, we'll be hearing about Jerry Falwell's hopes for chose an assisnation target.

So your saying that there is no Christian Right influence in the Republican Party - it's all a left-wing conspiracy? Or are you saying that Pat Robertson is the Michael Moore of the right?

[Nbadan]

So what. There comes a point where a public figure can only embarrass himself so many times before even ardent fans start turning away. Pat Robertson has been a laughing stock to most Americans for years. I don't see how any of his crackpot comments is anything to fret over.

Your right, Hugo Chavez should just shake it off, I mean, so what if there's an American Air Craft carrier off his coast? Since when have these Christian fundies had any say in our government anyway? I mean, its not like W is a self-professed born-again Christian who has said he listens directly to God, right?

Hummm...I wonder what would happen if Chavez started selling his oil for Euros.

[gtownspur]

Pat Robertson the Michael Moore of the right... that's plain retarded. Outside of abortion and gay marriage and school prayer. Robertson is a liberal republican when it comes to welfare, affirmative action, and economics. He's closer to McCain than to Dick Cheney politically.

As for the comment, i'd like to see the whole transcript of what he had said.

[cherylsteele]

So your saying that there is no Christian Right influence in the Republican Party - it's all a left-wing conspiracy? Or are you saying that Pat Robertson is the Michael Moore of the right?

I was being sarcastic.

[boutons]

August 23, 2005

Robertson Is Pilloried for Assassination Call

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN / NY Times

Pat Robertson, the conservative Christian broadcaster, has attracted attention over the years for lambasting everything from feminists and "activist" judges to the United Nations and Disney World.

Now Mr. Robertson has set off an international firestorm with his comments on his television broadcast that the United States should kill Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, a leftist who sits atop the largest oil reserves outside the Middle East.

"If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it Mr. Robertson said on his program, "The 700 Club" on Monday. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don't think any oil shipments will stop."

Today, Mr. Robertson's statements were denounced by both the State Department and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. In Caracas, Mr. Robertson was criticized by the vice president of Venezuela, and in Cuba, by President Fidel Castro.

Vice President José Vicente Rangel of Venezuela said: "This is a huge hypocrisy to maintain an antiterrorist line and at the same time have such terrorist statements as these made by Christian preacher Pat Robertson coming from the same country." He told reporters, "The ball is in the U.S. court now."

Mr. Rumsfeld dismissed Mr. Robertson's call for Mr. Chávez's assassination, saying to reporters: "Certainly it's against the law. Our department doesn't do that type of thing." He added, "Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time."

Sean McCormack, a State Department spokesman called Mr. Robertson's comments "inappropriate." Mr. Robertson unsuccessfully sought the Republican presidential nomination in 1988. He has often used his television program and the political advocacy group he founded, the Christian Coalition, to drum up support for Mr. Bush.

"Mr. Robertson has been one of the president's staunchest allies," said Bernardo Álvarez, the Venezuelan ambassador to the United States. "His statement demands the strongest condemnation by the White House."

Some of Mr. Robertson's conservative Christian allies distanced themselves from his comments. Rev. Rob Schenck, president of the National Clergy Council in Washington, released a statement calling on Mr. Robertson to "immediately apologize, retract his statement and clarify what the Bible and Christianity teaches about the permissibility of taking human life outside of law."

The Rev. Richard Cizik of the National Association of Evangelicals said in an interview that he and "most evangelical leaders" would disassociate themselves from such "unfortunate and particularly irresponsible" comments.

"It complicates circumstances for foreign missionaries and Christian aid workers overseas who are already perceived, wrongly, especially by leftists and other leaders, as collaborators with U.S. intelligence agencies," he added.

But other conservative Christian organizations remained silent, with leaders at the Traditional Values Coalition, the Family Research Council and the Christian Coalition saying through spokesmen that they were too busy to comment.

A spokeswoman for Pat Robertson said today that he is not giving interviews and had no further comment.

Liberals, however, were not silent. The Rev. Jesse Jackson called for an investigation by the Federal Communications Commission, just as it did when Janet Jackson's breast was exposed during a Superbowl broadcast. "This is even more threatening to hemispheric stability than the flash of a breast on television during a ball game," he said.

One liberal watchdog group, Media Matters for America, sent a letter urging the ABC Family network to stop carrying Mr. Robertson's program. Another group, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, asked President Bush to repudiate Mr. Roberson personally.

The program is broadcast by ABC Family, which agreed to carry it as part of the deal ABC made in 2001 to buy Fox Family Worldwide, which previously aired it.

In a statement today, ABC Family said the network was "contractually obligated to air 'The 700 Club' and has no editorial control over views expressed by the hosts or guests."

It added, "ABC Family strongly rejects the views expressed by Pat Robertson in the Aug. 22 telecast of the program."

Mr. Chávez, who won office in 1998, has become the Bush administration's most vocal antagonist in Latin America, accusing President Bush of terrorism for the war in Iraq and of trying to impoverish developing countries by pushing market reforms for their economies.

Mr. Chávez has often accused the United States of trying to assassinate him. The White House quickly welcomed a coup against Mr. Chávez in April 2002, but the Venezuelan president was returned to power two days later.

Today, Mr. Chávez was visiting Mr. Castro in Havana, where he shrugged off Mr. Robertson's assassination call. But Mr. Castro, standing beside the Venezuelan president, said of Mr. Robertson's remarks, "I think only God can punish crimes of such magnitude."

Mr. Robertson made his comments on his program immediately followed a segment about Venezuela. Speaking live in the studio, Mr. Robertson asserted that Mr. Chávez had "destroyed the Venezuelan economy" and was turning Venezuela into "a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."

"Without question this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil that could hurt us very badly," Mr. Robertson said. "We have the ability to take him out and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator."

"The 700 Club" has an audience of about one million people, according to Mr. Robertson's Web site.

Mr. Robertson has a history of getting attention for inflammatory remarks. In May, he argued that the threat to the United States from activist judges was "probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings." In 2003, Mr. Robertson said "maybe we need a very small nuke thrown" at State Department headquarters "to shake things up."

In 1998, he warned that hurricanes and other natural disasters would sweep down on Orlando, Fla., because homosexuals were flocking to Disney World there on special "gay days." And he has often denounced the United Nations as a first step toward a dangerous "one world government."

Juan Forero contributed reporting from Bogotá, Colombia, for this article.

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[whottt]

Pat Robertson is a douchebag...and there isn't much difference between what he said and what the Mullah's say. This isn't the first stupid thing he's said....except he's not calling for the assassination of an American Leader.


Oh and Chavez is an asshole.

[Dre_7]

Guess what?

There are idiots on the right and left. Religious and non-religious. Christian and Muslim. Male and female. Deal with it.

[Nbadan]

Get this, Hugo Chavez is offering cheap gas to help out the poor in the U.S.


HAVANA, Cuba (Reuters) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, popular with the poor at home, offered on Tuesday to help needy Americans with cheap supplies of gasoline.

"We want to sell gasoline and heating fuel directly to poor communities in the United States," the populist leader told reporters at the end of a visit to Communist-run Cuba.

Chavez did not say how Venezuela would go about providing gasoline to poor communities. Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA owns Citgo, which has 14,000 gas stations in the United States.

The offer may sound attractive to Americans feeling pinched by soaring prices at the pump but not to the U.S. government, which sees Chavez as a left-wing troublemaker in Latin America.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/23/chavez.gasoline.reut/index.html)

Silly socialist, public handout are for corporations in Bush World.

[Nbadan]

Chavez publicly disses Robertson


Chavez lashes back at Robertson
The Venezuelan leader fought back against the '700 Club' host.
by Christopher Toothaker (AP)

August 23, 2005

CARACAS, Venezuela - Pat Robertson's call for American agents to assassinate President Hugo Chavez is a ``terrorist'' statement that needs to be investigated by U.S. authorities, Venezuela said Tuesday. The Bush administration quickly distanced itself from the religious broadcaster.

Robertson's suggestion Monday that the United States ``take out'' Chavez to stop Venezuela from becoming a ``launching pad for communist influence and Muslim extremism'' appeared likely to aggravate tensions between the United States and the world's fifth-largest oil exporting country.

Winding up a visit to Cuba, Chavez said in response to questions from reporters about Roberston's remarks that such comments did not matter to him and that he would prefer to ``talk about life.''

``I don't even know who that person is,'' said Chavez, standing next to Cuban leader Fidel Castro at Havana's airport.

OU Daily (http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/08/23/430becaebc682)

Meanwhile, American officials apologized to the world for our own religious extremist. OK, not really, we give them amazing amounts of money and media attention.

[j-6]

Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA owns Citgo, which has 14,000 gas stations in the United States.

Didn't know that.

[Nbadan]

Didn't know that.

Buy Citgo!

[whottt]

Get this, Hugo Chavez is offering cheap gas to help out the poor in the U.S.



CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/23/chavez.gasoline.reut/index.html)

Silly socialist, public handout are for corporations in Bush World.


LMAO..Dan, I don't know who is more stupid...you, for believing he actually means this crap...or Chavez for offering free Oil to the wealthiest nation in the World with nearly 50% of his country living in poverty(15% living in extreme poverty).

I personally think we should take him up on it...I'm game for some free gas...it'll help the US more than just economically as well...

When American commies like yourself watch this guy send his country into total and utter economic collapse perhaps you will see once and for all how stupid Marxism is....

Dan I just want to make sure you remember all the shit this guy is talking, and how he thinks he king shit of the entire world based on the 3 million barrels of Oil his country produces per day...

So that when the US drops this guy on his economic ass....you won't think it was the US that did it...You'll know it was something he wanted to happen.


This guy is so economically stupid it just proves that anyone can become the leader of a Latin American country...

[j-6]

Buy Citgo!

http://www.citgo.com/InvestorRelations/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.jsp

Q: What is your ticker symbol? How can I buy CITGO stock?

A: CITGO is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. As a result, we have no publicly-traded equity securities and no stock ticker symbol.

Cool name. I bet every kid in that continent knows about Simon Bolivar, "the George Washington of South America."

[whottt]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/09/chavez.invasion.ap/

Chavez: U.S. will 'bite the dust' if it invades

Tuesday, August 9, 2005; Posted: 6:41 a.m. EDT (10:41 GMT)


Venezuelan President Chavez called the U.S. the "most savage, cruel and muderous empire" in world history.


CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez told thousands of visiting students that if U.S. forces were to invade the South American country, they would be soundly defeated.

The U.S. government has strongly denied Chavez's claims that it is considering military action against Cuba's closest ally in the Americas.

But Chavez said late Monday that the U.S. government, which "won't stop caressing the idea of invading Cuba or invading Venezuela," should be warned of the consequences.

"If someday they get the crazy idea of coming to invade us, we'll make them bite the dust defending the freedom of our land," Chavez said to applause.

He spoke during the opening ceremony of a world youth festival bringing together student delegations from across the world and convened under the slogan "Against Imperialism and War."

Chavez called the United States the "most savage, cruel and murderous empire that has existed in the history of the world."

The Venezuelan leader said "socialism is the only path," and told the students the collective goal is to "save a world threatened by the voracity of U.S. imperialism."

Earlier, the students waved flags, danced in traditional dress, and held signs praising socialism, Cuban leader Fidel Castro and Ernesto "Che" Guevara.

More than 300 students from the United States shouted out their disapproval of U.S. President George W. Bush, chanting "Get out Bush!" Other students chanted: "Bush, fascist -- you're a terrorist!"

Some 15,000 youths from 144 countries traveled to Venezuela for the weeklong festival and conference, organizers said.

Chavez wore a red shirt like many of the students, and embraced delegation leaders as their groups marched past.

The ceremony was held in Venezuela's military headquarters in Caracas. Troops looked on while students passed carrying colored flags and shouting: "We will overcome!"

This year's World Festival of Students and Youth is the 16th. The first, in 1947, was held in Czechoslovakia, and during the Cold War most host countries were aligned with the Soviet bloc.

Apart from the former Soviet Union, other host countries have included Romania, Poland, Finland, Cuba, the former East Germany and North Korea.

The weeklong gathering will include musical performances, panel discussions and an "Anti-imperialist Court," which in past years has condemned the U.S. government's actions.

While tensions have grown between Chavez and Washington, the Venezuelan leader has built close ties with countries from Iran to China.

Chavez expressed his support Monday for Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, saying he expects to continue strengthening relations. Chavez said like Venezuela, Iran is a country that has been "attacked" for many years by "the hand of imperialism."

Chavez, whose country remains a major supplier of oil to the United States, also is sharply critical of the U.S.-led wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[whottt]

North Korea: Chavez's Supply Line?


By Lt. Col. Gordon Cucullu
Front Page Magazine
USA
Infosearch:
Armando F. Mastrapa III
José Cadenas
Research Dept.
La Nueva Cuba
May 10, 2005



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It may be pure coincidence that within weeks of a quiet visit by North Korean delegates to Caracas, Venezuela to see dictator-in-progress Hugo Chavez, the Koreans test-fired a medium range missile 65 miles into the East Sea (a.k.a. Sea of Japan). On the other hand, trusting to coincidence when evaluating intentions and capabilities of rogue regimes can result in trouble for all concerned.

Americans need to be troubled about increasingly dark developments in our hemisphere, especially regarding Venezuela. Once a budding democracy, Venezuela under Chavez is rapidly turning into an autocratic Marxist state. His growing friendship with Cuban dictator Fidel Castro is no longer conducted in secret. Esteemed Wall Street Journal columnist Mary Anastasia O'Grady notes that while many are joking that Venezuela is the "largest Cuban province," that the truth of the matter is that Venezuela may "be in the process of appropriating Cuba."

Considering that Venezuela sits on huge oil reserves and provides America with about 15 percent of our annual consumption, it is disturbing indeed to learn that a nascent democracy is coming unraveled in South America. Having another communist dictatorship in the hemisphere would be bad news indeed. Making the news worse in this case is Chavez's often stated delusions of glory. As with many tin-pot dictators, he sees himself amalgamating vast territories and controlling huge wealth. According to O'Grady Chavez "envisions an axis of power linking Brasilla, Montevideo, and Buenos Aires." He speaks of controlling a sweep of territory ranging from Atlantic to Pacific.

His first target has to be Colombia. He is dedicated to "breaking the spine of democracy" in the Latin region. That means the death of Colombia. While some consider it speculative or highly premature to comment on these activities, it seems reasonable to ask pertinent questions: why would Chavez purchase more than 100,000 Russian-block weapons for his army that is armed with a European-based weapons system? Could it be that his ties with the narcoterrorists in Colombia are firmer than many are willing to admit? It makes perfect sense from Chavez's standpoint to undermine the Colombian democratic government by offering unlimited military assistance and territorial sanctuary to the FARC, Colombia's narcotics based, Marxist revolutionary movement that is waging open guerrilla warfare against the legitimate government. O'Grady reports that a defecting Venezuelan army officer was under orders not to interfere with FARC encampments and base areas inside the Venezuelan border when he was posted in that area not long ago. If Colombia falls to the guerrillas and narcoterrorists, it could generate a Red tide that would sweep less stable governments away.

Chavez is also expecting delivery of a squadron of MiG-29 aircraft. These high performance fighter aircraft are top line fighters, far superior to most aircraft in the region. Appearance of Soviet-type war planes in South America seems like déjà vu all over again. In the early 1980s America worked hard to unseat the Marxist Sandinista regime in Nicaragua and even launched an invasion of the island nation of Grenada when military airfield construction began. The U.S. took on a mission to rid the hemisphere of a serious military threat then. We many have to do so again. Pentagon planners are undoubtedly formulating contingency plans to deal with Chavez's new weapons systems. Meanwhile, sending a decidedly confusing signal, President Bush continues to speak favorably of Russia's Vladimir Putin. Considering that Putin is supporting our enemies in the Middle East – Syria and Iran, and now selling sophisticated fighter aircraft to a budding dictator and anti-American thug in our hemisphere, it is past time for the president to toughen his inexplicably soft stance with Russia.

Making a difficult situation even more troubling is the under-the-radar visit by North Koreans. When we consider plausible reasons for a North Korean visit to a territorially ambitious Hugo Chavez, none portend good news. They are certainly not in Caracas to sell some of the low quality, slave labor manufactured junk they produce in their euphemistically named "New Economic Zones." For the past decade North Korea's main export has been missiles. North Korea has been an equal opportunity proliferator. It sold missiles to Iraq under Saddam, to Iran, Syria, Libya, and possibly Pakistan. Just prior to the War in Iraq American ships intercepted a North Korean freighter bound for Yemen with a load of missiles. America insisted that the missiles remain in Yemen. It is probable that the missiles were intended to be transshipped to Syria by road. This batch was intercepted but more leak through untouched.

The North Koreans can offer Chavez a variety on their menu of death: SCUDs are typically at the bottom of the rung, a kind of "start up package" for international thugs. Short range, about 300 km, rather inaccurate, capable of being more of a terror weapon than a precise military missile, the SCUD was been bothersome in Gulf War I. But North Korea has made significant improvements on the basic SCUD-C, known in its inventory as Hwasong-6. Now with a boosted range of approximately 700 km, carrying a 700 kg payload and engineered with improved accuracy, a Hwasong launched from Venezuela could attack Bogota easily and hit targets in the Panama Canal region. However, this is hardly the limit of North Korean technology. They can also provide Chavez with the Nodong and the Taepodong class missiles. When these systems are present the price of intimidation rises dramatically in the region.

For example, the basic Nodong class missile is capable of reaching approximately 1,500 km. It threatens targets as far away as Mexico and possibly the coastal southern United States. With a payload lighter than the 800 kg for which it is rated it might stretch range a bit longer. On the other hand, a Taepodong I, the basic intermediate range missile that North Korea has tested by firing it over the Japanese islands, can hit targets as far away as Atlanta. Perhaps more germane to Chavez's megalomaniac concept of himself as head of an imperial South America is the fact that such weapons would be extremely intimidating to his neighbors who have neither the finances nor the capabilities to counter his threats. The specter of an oil-rich, highly-armed, anti-American dictator who makes his own law could be extremely appealing to regional revolutionary groups and criminal enterprises that might see him as providing a protective umbrella. Chavez might be a magnet to pull all anti-democratic forces together in his region.

To date these threats have not materialized and it is unwise to panic over them. That said, it would be equally unwise to delay contingency planning until missiles and high performance aircraft begin unloading on the docks of Caracas or worse, bullying Venezuela's neighbors.

[whottt]

Kim Jong Il, a Chavez role model



Johan Freitas, in Caracas

Venezuela, already an ally of Cuba and Iraq, is now making overtures to also align itself with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il.

Monday, in Caracas, a spokesman for the Hugo Chavez government sent a signal of support to North Korea's capital Pyongyang, and re-affirmed the ideological similarities of the two regimes.

Education minister Hector Navarro, while attempting to open the country's leading university, Universidad Central de Venezuela, declared that he and the Bolivarian government stood firm in their principles, and that those principles would not change. He then extended a salute of "solidarity" to "friendly nations", naming, specifically, Algeria, Cuba, Iran, and North Korea.

Students and teachers of the university have joined in refusing to follow Hugo Chavez down the Cuban path to ruin, and are striking to force the government to hold early elections.

The naming of Cuba comes as no surprise. Chavez is the Cuban leader's life support. Iran and Algeria can also be explained: Last week, Algeria sent oil workers in an attempt to restart Venezuela's oil industry, and Sunday a government delegation from Iran arrived in Caracas, also to help break up the strike, now in its sixth week.

But why single out North Korea? For that, we must look at the background of Hector Navarro and other members of the Chavez inner circle. Before taking power, Navarro hailed North Korea as a model to follow, and in a document co-authored with former Chavez industry and commerce minister Jesús Montilla and former Chavez central planning minister Jorge Giordini, he wrote:

"Socialism survives [...] in North Korea which, although isolated and alone, has achieved a strong economy."1

While this opinion may be shared by other graying leftists who have hitched their star to Hugo Chavez's Marxist experiment -- having previously bet the farm on socialist dreamlands like Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, Cambodia and El Salvador -- more clear-headed analysts plainly disagree.

North Korea is one of the world's most centrally planned and isolated economies, and faces desperate economic conditions. Far from having "achieved a strong economy", industrial capital stock is nearly beyond repair as a result of years of underinvestment and spare parts shortages. Industrial and power output have declined in parallel. In North Korea, large groups of the population survive by eating grass and bark off the trees.

This, however, does not affect Navarro, nor his boss Hugo Chavez, who in a recorded message took to the airwaves late Sunday and again Monday at noon, repeatedly reminding Venezuelans that "We have burned our boats. There is no turning back. We will carry on consolidating and deepening this Revolution,"2 and promising the country's 24 million citizens to take their country a few hundred decades back in time: "If we have to cook with firewood for 2 years, we will. Or for 20 years, if we have to."3

The belief that a pure revolution can only be born once all remnants of the previous society has been destroyed is a popular theory among followers of Pol Pot's illfated Cambodia and of Mao's Cultural Revolution. And, according to Chavez-watcher Richard Gott, several of the president's closest advisers were once associated with a Chinese-oriented split from the Venezuelan Communist Party, and Chavez himself has declared that "I have always been a maoist".4

In Caracas today, with a government spokesman who is holding up North Korea as a model to follow, it is no wonder that millions of ordinary Venezuelans have taken to the streets demanding free and democratic elections.

A nuclear weapons power, the one-man dictatorship of North Korea is clearly a danger to Asia. In South America, another strongman, Hugo Chavez, is also bent on going nuclear. This was one of the plans discussed in late December 2002 with Marco Aurelio Garcia, a known terrorism sponsor who visited Chavez personally in Caracas. But if Garcia can not bring the bomb, maybe Pyongyang can.

" - It is too early to determine with certainty what the nuclear weapons plans of Hugo Chavez are", says Brigadier General Nestor Gonzalez Gonzalez, a former Chavez-loyalist who broke with the president when his totalitarian ambitions became clear, and who is today one of the leaders in Venezuela's military resistance movement, Militares Democraticos.

" - But Monday's re-affirmation of support for North Korea is a troubling sign," warns Gonzalez. "I personally know Chavez very well, and he is capable of anything."

[whottt]

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/031006/6venezuela.htm

10/6/03
Terror Close to Home
In oil-rich Venezuela, a volatile leader befriends bad actors from the Mideast, Colombia, and Cuba
By Linda Robinson

The oil-rich but politically unstable nation of Venezuela is emerging as a potential hub of terrorism in the Western Hemisphere, providing assistance to Islamic radicals from the Middle East and other terrorists, say senior U.S. military and intelligence officials. Bush administration aides see this as an unpredictably dangerous mix and are gathering more information about the intentions of a country that sits 1,000 miles south of Florida.



One thing that's clear is that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is fast becoming America's newest nemesis, U.S. officials say. He has forged close ties with Cuba's Fidel Castro and has befriended some of America's other notorious enemies, traveling to Saddam's Iraq and Qadhafi's Libya. Now, after surviving an attempted coup and a nationwide petition demanding his recall, Chavez is flirting with terrorism, and Washington is watching with increasing alarm.

"We are not disinterested spectators," says Roger Noriega, the new assistant secretary of state for Latin America. "Any actions that undermine democratic order or threaten the security and well-being of the region are of legitimate concern to all of Venezuela's neighbors." U.S. officials are monitoring three sets of developments:

Middle Eastern terrorist groups are operating support cells in Venezuela and other locations in the Andean region. A two-month review by U.S. News, including interviews with dozens of U.S. and Latin American sources, confirms the terrorist activity. In particular, the magazine has learned that thousands of Venezuelan identity documents are being distributed to foreigners from Middle Eastern nations, including Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, and Lebanon.

Venezuela is supporting armed opposition groups from neighboring Colombia; these groups are on the official U.S. list of terrorist organizations and are also tied to drug trafficking. Maps obtained by U.S. News, as well as eyewitness accounts, pinpoint the location of training camps used by Colombian rebels, a top rebel leader, and Venezuelan armed groups.

Cubans are working inside Venezuela's paramilitary and intelligence apparatus. The coordination between Cuba and Venezuela is the latest sign that Venezuelan President Chavez is modeling his government on Castro's Cuba.

The Venezuelan government denies supporting Middle Eastern terrorist groups and says that no Cubans are operating inside its intelligence agencies. Venezuela has long denied providing aid to the Colombian guerrilla groups.

Venezuela is providing support--including identity documents--that could prove useful to radical Islamic groups, say U.S. officials. U.S. News has learned that Chavez's government has issued thousands of cedulas, the equivalent of Social Security cards, to people from places such as Cuba, Colombia, and Middle Eastern nations that play host to foreign terrorist organizations. An American official with firsthand knowledge of the ID scheme has seen computer spreadsheets with names of people organized by nationality. "The list easily totaled several thousand," the official says. "Colombians were the largest group; there were more than a thousand of them. It also included many from Middle Eastern `countries of interest' like Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Lebanon." The official adds: "It was shocking to see how extensive the list was." U.S. officials believe that the Venezuelan government is issuing the documents to people who should not be getting them and that some of these cedulas were subsequently used to obtain Venezuelan passports and even American visas, which could allow the holder to elude immigration checks and enter the United States. U.S. officials say that the cedulas are also being used by Colombian subversives and by some Venezuelan officials to travel surreptitiously.


http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/031006/6venezuela_2.htm
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/031006/6venezuela_3.htm
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/031006/6venezuela_4.htm

[whottt]

By the way....

It should be noted that one of this guys cloest compadres in South America is Argentina's President...

Someone let me know the first time they see an Argentine that doesn't hate America...I haven't seen one on this site yet.

And I know...because I started out liking Argentina until I realized they were mostly anti-American dickheads.


Don't Count on Argentina to Help Fight Terror
Posted by Daniel Q. Kelley, 7/14/05 at 2:00:49 PM.
(from the Wall Street Journal)
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY
July 8, 2005; Page A11

Is Argentina becoming a "national sanctuary for foreign terrorists?" That's the question posed on the Argentine Web site Ambitoweb.com this week. As suggested by the provocative commentary, it's a possibility that alarms more than a few Argentines these days.

It is also a question worth the attention of U.S. policy makers. More and more, Argentina is looking like the pre-9/11 Saudi Arabia of South America. While official engagements between the U.S. and Argentina are cordial, what is being cultivated on the Southern Cone home turf hardly qualifies Argentina as an ally in the war on terror. Having been served the fruits of Saudi double talk four years ago, the U.S. would be well advised to be twice shy.

The concern raised on Ambitoweb.com came on the heels of a decision by an Argentine judge to reject Chile's request to extradite Sergio Galvarino Apablaza. Otherwise known by the nom de guerre Commandante Salvador, the Chilean is a former leader of a left-wing extremist group called the Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front. He stands accused of the assassination of Chilean Senator Jaime Guzman in 1991 and the kidnapping of Cristian Edwards, the son of the owner of Chile's El Mercurio newspaper.


They did it in WWII....old habits are hard to break.

[whottt]

Buy Citgo!


Enough said.

[boutons]

So, whott, you back mullah Robertson's fatwa to murder Chavez because of VZ's connections with NK?

Why didn't the Repugs start a war with NK or Iran, which are real, serious, and increasing threats to USA and are supporters of terrrorism?

[cecil collins]

The US is imperialistic. You(and various red bashers) talk about Chavez ruining Venezuala's economy, but show me the figures on how rich and wonderful they were before Chavez. I'll bet you(prove me wrong) that there were the rich elites and the very poor. Now that the resources are nationalized, the people may be better off. Just my opinion, and guess. I'm sure whott will just call me anti-american, because he is somehow the authority, and prove nothing.

[cecil collins]

Anyone who said Robertson's opinion means nothing and criticized Dan's thread is stupid. The man has more TV coverage than Oprah, yet he has no influence, don't kid yourself.

[smeagol]

Chavez is a fucking idiot. He will run Venezuela down to the ground. It will take 20 yrs at a minimum to dig Venezuela out of the ditch this idiot will dig the country into.

Buy Citgo, Dan? Why? To help that idiot?

Fuck that.

[Useruser666]

Anyone who said Robertson's opinion means nothing and criticized Dan's thread is stupid. The man has more TV coverage than Oprah, yet he has no influence, don't kid yourself.

You got that right!

The less attention you give people like this the better.

[smeagol]

You got that right!

The less attention you give people like this the better.
The problem is the guy does attract a lot of media attention, both in the US and worldwide.

And you know, because whottt has told us so so many times, people outside the US are very stupid, and they will blame all the 300MM inhabitants of this country for what one guy says (i.e. they will hate on the US for this).

[Useruser666]

The problem is the guy does attract a lot of media attention, both in the US and worldwide.

And you know, because whottt has told us so so many times, people outside the US are very stupid, and they will blame all the 300MM inhabitants of this country for what one guy says (i.e. they will hate on the US for this).

The problem is this guys power comes from the attention he gets for saying stupid stuff. When people make a deal of what he said, more nut jobs rally to his side. If he has no voice he will have no draw.

[Jelly]

[QUOTE=whottt]Kim Jong Il, a Chavez role model

North Korea is one of the world's most centrally planned and isolated economies, and faces desperate economic conditions. Far from having "achieved a strong economy", industrial capital stock is nearly beyond repair as a result of years of underinvestment and spare parts shortages. Industrial and power output have declined in parallel. In North Korea, large groups of the population survive by eating grass and bark off the trees.

QUOTE]

It's worse than that. Last week I saw a really sickening documentary about the terrible conditions in North Korea. People are resorting to eating far worse things eating grass.

This is from the Daily Telegraph, but Google turned up over 59,000 articles on this subject :

Famine-struck N Koreans 'eating children'
By Mark Nicol
(Filed: 08/06/2003)

Cannibalism is increasing in North Korea following another poor harvest and a big cut in international food aid, according to refugees who have fled the stricken country.

Aid agencies are alarmed by refugees' reports that children have been killed and corpses cut up by people desperate for food. Requests by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) to be allowed access to "farmers' markets", where human meat is said to be traded, have been turned down by Pyongyang, citing "security reasons".

Anyone caught selling human meat faces execution, but in a report compiled by the North Korean Refugees Assistance Fund (NKRAF), one refugee said: "Pieces of 'special' meat are displayed on straw mats for sale. People know where they came from, but they don't talk about it."

The NKRAF, an aid body set up in China five years ago which helps to smuggle food and medicines into parts of North Korea off-limits to WFP officials, interviewed 200 refugees for the report.

"If a funeral takes place during the day and the burial is performed that evening, the grave may be dug open and the body stolen before morning," said one refugee.

Another witness, named only as Lee, 54, said he feared that his missing grandsons, aged eight and 11, had been killed for food. As he searched widely for them, they boys' friends said they had vanished near a market.

Mr Lee said police who raided a nearby restaurant found body parts. The business's owners were shot.

Gerald Bourke, the WFP's representative in Beijing, said it was difficult for his organisation to substantiate the reports of cannibalism as they were unable to get to the markets. "As in any desperately poor country, it is something we might stumble on," he said. "It's not just a problem for us, but also our donors." Because of the food shortages, many people were having to survive on nine ounces of rations a day - less than half the recommended minimum daily intake.

North Korea's ability to feed itself has been hit by floods, deforestation and lack of farm fertilisers and equipment.

The WFP says Japan provided 500,000 tons of food aid in 2001, making it the biggest donor, but sent nothing last year. Food aid from America has been cut from 340,000 tons in 2001 to 40,000 tons so far this year. Washington has pledged to send a further 60,000 tons if Pyongyang lifts restrictions on the operations of agencies such as the WFP.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Considering that Venezuela sits on huge oil reserves and provides America with about 15 percent of our annual consumption, it is disturbing indeed to learn that a nascent democracy is coming unraveled in South America. Having another communist dictatorship in the hemisphere would be bad news indeed. Making the news worse in this case is Chavez's often stated delusions of glory. As with many tin-pot dictators, he sees himself amalgamating vast territories and controlling huge wealth. According to O'Grady Chavez "envisions an axis of power linking Brasilla, Montevideo, and Buenos Aires." He speaks of controlling a sweep of territory ranging from Atlantic to Pacific.

His first target has to be Colombia. He is dedicated to "breaking the spine of democracy" in the Latin region. That means the death of Colombia. While some consider it speculative or highly premature to comment on these activities, it seems reasonable to ask pertinent questions: why would Chavez purchase more than 100,000 Russian-block weapons for his army that is armed with a European-based weapons system? Could it be that his ties with the narcoterrorists in Colombia are firmer than many are willing to admit? It makes perfect sense from Chavez's standpoint to undermine the Colombian democratic government by offering unlimited military assistance and territorial sanctuary to the FARC, Colombia's narcotics based, Marxist revolutionary movement that is waging open guerrilla warfare against the legitimate government. O'Grady reports that a defecting Venezuelan army officer was under orders not to interfere with FARC encampments and base areas inside the Venezuelan border when he was posted in that area not long ago. If Colombia falls to the guerrillas and narcoterrorists, it could generate a Red tide that would sweep less stable governments away.

Chavez is also expecting delivery of a squadron of MiG-29 aircraft. These high performance fighter aircraft are top line fighters, far superior to most aircraft in the region. Appearance of Soviet-type war planes in South America seems like déjà vu all over again. In the early 1980s America worked hard to unseat the Marxist Sandinista regime in Nicaragua and even launched an invasion of the island nation of Grenada when military airfield construction began. The U.S. took on a mission to rid the hemisphere of a serious military threat then. We many have to do so again. Pentagon planners are undoubtedly formulating contingency plans to deal with Chavez's new weapons systems. Meanwhile, sending a decidedly confusing signal, President Bush continues to speak favorably of Russia's Vladimir Putin. Considering that Putin is supporting our enemies in the Middle East – Syria and Iran, and now selling sophisticated fighter aircraft to a budding dictator and anti-American thug in our hemisphere, it is past time for the president to toughen his inexplicably soft stance with Russia.

This is pure and absolute nonsense. Chavez may have illusions of power, but he can't even send a boy scout outside Venezuela.

First, his internal situation doesn't allow him to move troops. He has 60% of support, but the other 40% is a very strong alliance between religious organizations, business federations, the upper-class, even a part of the military, and other sectors. Since he doesn't have the full support of the military, any troops movement will end in a coup.

Second, we like it or not, Chavez was elected. He has a military background (he lead a coup in 1992), but he was democratically elected in 1998. Not only that, he was forced to call for a referendum, which he won with 59% of the votes. Some people might like it, others don't, but his supporters have the right to be annoyed by these comments, just like Republicans were annoyed by the support Kerry received outside the US (mind you, no one asked for Bush to be murdered).

Third, Chavez can dream all he wants about Brasilia, Buenos Aires and Montevideo (WTF? Uruguay? He should look to Chile or Peru first if he has such expansionist fantasies), but that is all, a dream. He certainly can't defeat Brazil, nor make the Brazilian goverment his puppet, and the chance of moving to any other country is blocked by this fact. This paragraph is the biggest nonsense, I'm pretty sure Chavez is an asshole, but not even on Peyote he would talk about an axis containing Buenos Aires and Brasilia, that's overrating his power, ambition and abilities.

If he was ever to break "the spine of democracy", he certainly wouldn't start in Colombia, a country which is divided between the democratic goverment, paramilitary forces and the FARC. If Colombia ever falls to the narcoterrorists (which is highly unlikely, the paramilitary group is better armed and has more conections in the goverment), it wouldn't unleash a so called "Red Tide". Perú, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay and Brazil certainly wouldn't fall into that tide, while currently the situation in Bolivia and Ecuador is more delicated, I doubt that they will join an Axis formed by Chavez.

[mookie2001]

Robertson is a terrorist
can you imagine if some Islamic leader called for the assasination of Leader W. Bush? there would be no question he's a terrorist

i mentioned the 700 club and CBN in my posts a while ago
i watch that shit, it comes on at like 10pm where i live on abc family, he says some crazy shit, crazy! and people send this chode money...bogus

[Sportcamper]

Pat Robertson, said he was misinterpreted..."I said our special forces could take him out... Take him out could be a number of things including kidnapping," Robertson said on his "The 700 Club" television program... "There are a number of ways of taking out a dictator from power besides killing him...DUH... :lol

[Nbadan]

yeah, Robertson has proven himself a great liar, eh?


CNN) -- Conservative religious broadcaster Pat Robertson said Wednesday that his remarks about the removal of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez were taken out of context and that he never called for the killing of the Latin American leader.

"I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out.' And 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping; there are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP , but that happens all the time," Robertson said on "The 700 Club" program.

snip

"If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it," said Robertson on Monday's program. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/24/robertson.chavez/index.html)

[nkdlunch]

he was misinterpreted by 99% or the population including CNN who had that news on their website for more than 24 hours :lmao

what a fucking moron!

[mookie2001]

if cindy sheehan speaks for all liberals then pat robertson speaks for all conservatives
right whottt?

[whottt]

No mookie...he doesn't...notice the absence of support Robertson's comments have...

And Robertson, as others have pointed out, is a lot more like the conservative version of Michael Moore....

When you see Robertson sitting next to Ford or either of the Bush's at the next RNC...then you can justifiably associate him as a leader of the Republican Party, like Moore has become for the Democrats.

And furthermore...when you start running into a bunch of Republicans who sound like a cross between Robertson and someone who gained their political knowledge from googling Rightwing websites...then you can claim the Republicans are as fucked up as the Democrats...


I know you libs get fucked up by moral equivalencies and don't have mental capacity to differentiate these things...so just consider this a helping hand from myself... :tu


And BTW...I am not a conservative...I just think the Democrats are seriously fucked in the head these days as well as heavily anti-American...and the Republicans aren't....

[Extra Stout]

If Chavez tried to invade Brazil, the end result would be a Brazilian government tickled pink about its oil-filled lake in its new northern province.

[mookie2001]

you bring up Moore all the time!
dont you think it would be kind of lame to talk about pat robertson in all my arguments?

[whottt]

The US is imperialistic. You(and various red bashers) talk about Chavez ruining Venezuala's economy, but show me the figures on how rich and wonderful they were before Chavez. I'll bet you(prove me wrong) that there were the rich elites and the very poor. Now that the resources are nationalized, the people may be better off. Just my opinion, and guess. I'm sure whott will just call me anti-american, because he is somehow the authority, and prove nothing.


Well it's always easy for an idiot to tell people what system they should live under...especially when he doesn't, nor has he ever, lived under that system.

You want to go live under a soon to be dictator then go ahead...no one is stopping you.

Here's the way capitalism works...those that want to be rich, and have the drive and intelligence to do so...can do so.


Socialism on the OTOH...it does not promise you relief from poverty...it just promises you that you will never be wealthy...

Well some people want to be wealthy and are willing to work hard and in many cases advance the human race in the cause of doing so...

Why should someone be allowed to dictate to them how they should live?

They are the ones that advance us...Socialism hold us back...

Socialism is like running a race and preventing anyone from winning it.

If you want to be poor and live at subsistence level then do so....but what gives you the right to hold others back?

What gives you that right?

Who appointed you master of the human race?

And Socialism does not end class separation either....it just puts the wealth in the hands of fewer people...and they make it off the back and intellect of others.

It's a hopeless political belief that does not help the poor.....it just steals their hopes, and gurantees subsistence level living. Yes You'll always be able to eat...and that's the only thing you'll always be able to do.


On top of that...it is well documented, even by the World Socialist Organization, that socialism cannot work unless all the world is Socialist...therefor it is the ultimate imperialism...the ultimate slavery, and the ultimate dictatorship. It is what wants to take over the world.

I guess as long as the evil capitalists keep showing Socialists that you don't have to be a slave it kinda fucks up the Socialist movement.


The way to help the poor is not to drag back the strong....it is with generosity, opportunity, and appeals to the conscience of your fellow man...not enforced subsistence living and state sponsored slavery.

[Extra Stout]

And BTW...I am not a conservative...I just think the Democrats are seriously fucked in the head these days as well as heavily anti-American...and the Republicans aren't....
I'm pretty pissed off at the Republicans and would vote for an opposition party if I had a choice besides the anti-capitalist, anti-American, let's-just-curl-up-and-die-we-had-it-coming, anti-Christian Democratic party we have today.

[Spurminator]

I think it's sad that the comments of a doofus like Pat Robertson can cause people to defend Chavez.

[whottt]

you bring up Moore all the time!

He's the leader of the Democratic Party...

He has more political pull and voter backing in that party than any other person.



dont you think it would be kind of lame to talk about pat robertson in all my arguments?

If he was widely accepted as a mainstream Republican it wouldn't...

And when he was, not too long ago, I damn sure wasn't a Republican and they weren't totally in control of the country.

[whottt]

So, whott, you back mullah Robertson's fatwa to murder Chavez because of VZ's connections with NK?


No....can you read? At no point did I do that. I called a Robertson a douchebag and said he was no better than the Mullah's...except he wasn't calling for the assassination of an American President...

Since I am an American...that make a little bit of difference to me...

I know you don't understand that...but you aren't an American..so I can't help you there.


Anyway...I don't advocate assassinating this guy...it will only raise his status...

I advocate dumping him on his economic ass, since he is just about 100% dependent on American imports and exports....








Why didn't the Repugs start a war with NK or Iran, which are real, serious, and increasing threats to USA and are supporters of terrrorism?

Hey give us time...I don't think we're going to go to war with North Korea...they have nukes.


They'll collapse when China goes Democratic....which won't be too far off.

Iran we might not have to....

Chavez we definitely don't have to...

[mookie2001]

listen chodesmuggler
Moore is an author and a filmmaker, you know he's not "the leader" of shit, he reaches FAR less people than Sean Hannity
nobody on this forum mentions him more than you, like i love to talk about tahoes and yukons you love to talk about Moore
that would be like me always bringing up Robertson in all my arguements
it would be stupid
"widely accepted as a mainstream Republican"
?????????
Bush isnt, Cheney isnt, Hannity isnt
are you talking about Rudi Gulianni?

[whottt]

listen chodesmuggler
Moore is an author and a filmmaker, you know he's not "the leader" of shit, he reaches FAR less people than Sean Hannity
nobody on this forum mentions him more than you, like i love to talk about tahoes and yukons you love to talk about Moore
that would be like me always bringing up Robertson in all my arguements
it would be stupid
"widely accepted as a mainstream Republican"
?????????
Bush isnt, Cheney isnt, Hannity isnt
are you talking about Rudi Gulianni?


What?

Moore is your leader...if you want me to stop saying that then stop parroting him in arguments...

[mookie2001]

how am i parroting him?

[whottt]

The problem is the guy does attract a lot of media attention, both in the US and worldwide.

And you know, because whottt has told us so so many times, people outside the US are very stupid, and they will blame all the 300MM inhabitants of this country for what one guy says (i.e. they will hate on the US for this).


It's not a US VS the World thing...it's a rich Vs the poor thing....

The barbarians always end up storming the gate...and it's never hard for a dictator to come to power in a poverty stricken region of the world....all he has to do is promise them they'll eat....that's usually enough to get popular support...and then later when his hold on power his consolidated he will take away every other thing in their lives.


Socialism is just about a flawless way to create a lastimg military dictatorship...

If you can think of a better way then show it to me...


But what can never be argued, and why it will ultimately fail...once a country has gone to total socialism and been freed....it will never return.


There are only three groups of people that advocate Socialism....

Rich guilty people( who want no part of giving up their wealth, but just want everyone else to not be poor).

Impoverished people.

Dictators....

Only one of those groups actually resides in a Socialist Dominated country.


Look at Chavez' heroes...

Bolivar
Castro
Kim Jong Il...
Mao

They were all dictators....that's what he wants to be.


But back to the original point...

Hungry people will believe what ever you tell them if you are giving them food while you are saying it....and they usually have a lot of hatred to manipulate.


All these Pakistani terrorists are the homeless children of Pakistan that get fed by the Mullah's...and in return for that food their lives get used up as they get turened into killing instruments in the cause of hatred and opression.

[whottt]

how am i parroting him?

At this particular moment you aren't doing it....I'll let you know the next time I see you doing it...

[mookie2001]

well anytime i say anything bad about Bush, youll call it parroting
and thats all the time

youre a sean hannity parrot

[whottt]

Who is Sean Hannity?

[whottt]

The news anchor guy on Fox news?

LMAO...I think not. That guy is a dyed in the wool conservative across the board...I most certainly am not. I just like the Republican foreign policy at this fucked up time in world history when we face a bigoted and nihilistic religious/fascism movement.

It's not reeeeeeeeal fucking complicated for a non idiot/commie to see which is the better side and system to live under and how best to deal with a movement that wants to enslave us.

[jochhejaam]

I'm pretty pissed off at the Republicans and would vote for an opposition party if I had a choice besides the anti-capitalist, anti-American, let's-just-curl-up-and-die-we-had-it-coming, anti-Christian Democratic party we have today.

Correct. I voted for Bush but if the Dems had run anyone against him with some clear vision and even a semblence of clear policy for America instead of spending his entire campaign complaining about Bush's faults, they would reside in the White House today. He failed miserably to define what he meant when he habitually claimed that "I have a Plan!"



Senator Kerry, "a plan is not a litany of complaints!"
-George Bush-


"John Kerry says the 'W' in George W. Bush stands for 'Wrong.' But he still can't explain what John Kerry stands for." —David Letterman

[boutons]

Pat Robertson Backs Off Assassination Call

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: August 24, 2005

Filed at 5:03 p.m. ET

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (AP) -- Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson insisted Wednesday that he did not call for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, despite comments broadcast on his program two days earlier.

''I didn't say 'assassination,''' Robertson said Wednesday on his Christian Broadcast Network show ''The 700 Club'' about remarks reported by The Associated Press and other media outlets.

''I said our special forces should 'take him out.' 'Take him out' could be a number of things including kidnapping.

''There are a number of ways of taking out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP, but that happens all the time.''

But a video of Monday's telecast shows that Robertson's exact words were: ''You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop.''

He continued: ''We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.''

When the AP called Robertson on Tuesday for elaboration, spokeswoman Angell Watts said Robertson would not do interviews and had no statement about his remarks. On Wednesday, Watts did not respond to two telephone messages, three pages and a fax seeking further comment.

Chavez, whose country is the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush. He accuses the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.

On Tuesday, the State Department called Robertson's remarks ''inappropriate.''

[Jelly]

[QUOTE=mookie2001]listen chodesmuggler
Moore is an author and a filmmaker, you know he's not "the leader" of shit, he reaches FAR less people than Sean Hannity
QUOTE]

um..yeah..just an author and filmmaker who gets to sit next to a former US President at the Democratic National Convention. yeah...no one of any consequence pays attention to Moore.

[smeagol]

Look at Chavez' heroes...

Bolivar
Castro
Kim Jong Il...
Mao

They were all dictators....that's what he wants to be.
Do you know who Simon Bolivar was?

Google it up. He was no dictator. He is the equivalent to America’s George Washington. He fought against the Spanish in the early part of the XIX Century. He is called Libertador of manyof the northern countries in S. Americas just as Jose de San Martin is the Libertador for the southern countries.

[xrayzebra]

Wow, and that man talks to god, so we should probably listen to him. Religious extremists are gonna fuck this country.


And your plan is?????

[xrayzebra]

Media Matters Calls on ABC Family to Discontinue Robertson Broadcasts



[url=http://
Their hypocrisy is beyond belief. How low are they willing to go?

Gee, not as low as the dimm-o-craps

[xrayzebra]

Chavez is a fucking idiot. He will run Venezuela down to the ground. It will take 20 yrs at a minimum to dig Venezuela out of the ditch this idiot will dig the country into.

Buy Citgo, Dan? Why? To help that idiot?

Fuck that.

He is no Idiot, he is a dictator who will use any means to remain in power.
Problem with most is they keep saying these people are idiots, they aren't,
or they wouldn't be where they are........

[whottt]

Do you know who Simon Bolivar was?

Google it up. He was no dictator. He is the equivalent to America’s George Washington. He fought against the Spanish in the early part of the XIX Century. He is called Libertador of manyof the northern countries in S. Americas just as Jose de San Martin is the Libertador for the southern countries.


http://www.carpenoctem.tv/military/bolivar.html


I don't claim to be an expert on this guy but...


Looks to me like he liberated....

And then wanted to keep it all for himself...and got his ass kicked because of it.

Not George Washington...who was offered it all for himself...and then said...No thanks...Greedy capitalist that he was.

[smeagol]

Looks to me like he liberated....

And then wanted to keep it all for himself...and got his ass kicked because of it.
He simply wanted to keep the continent as one single country. Not sure that was a bad idea.


Not George Washington...who was offered it all for himself...and then said...No thanks...Greedy capitalist that he was.
Nobody compares to the US heroes. We all know that.

[cecil collins]

Well it's always easy for an idiot to tell people what system they should live under...especially when he doesn't, nor has he ever, lived under that system.

You want to go live under a soon to be dictator then go ahead...no one is stopping you.



Very presumptuous, you don't know that he is a soon to be dictator. Okay, I've never lived under socialism, so I can't argue that it can be a good thing. In that case I should love only what I've lived under:capatilism. I don't hate it in theory, but it's the same problem with most system's, the rich elites fuck the poor and you end up with assholes in charge.

[whottt]

He simply wanted to keep the continent as one single country. Not sure that was a bad idea.

Not in and of itself...but it looks to me like he was the sole ruler of it...and that is just another monarchy....just another one like the ones he liberated the continent from.








Nobody compares to the US heroes. We all know that.


To be honest, looking at his record, I'd say Bolivar was probably a better General than Washington...but not near as good of a national leader...

The example Washington set as the leader of this country set the tone that still exists to this day...

He was very much the father of this country...he even freed his slaves long before the battle to do so would be fought.


He didn't try to stay in power, he didn't try to make himself king...he set the example of peaceful transfer of power...

What has set America apart from the rest of the world for the last 200 years is that we don't tear our country apart over dissatisfaction with the government...not fucking your own country up leaves you free to keep moving forward(and fuck other countries up I guess :) ) instead of continually starting over from scratch.

[cecil collins]

Who appointed you master of the human race?

And Socialism does not end class separation either....it just puts the wealth in the hands of fewer people...and they make it off the back and intellect of others.



So does capatilism. A very small percent controls a vast majority of the wealth in this country, so you can't argue that capatilism is peaches and cream for everyone.

[cecil collins]

The way to help the poor is not to drag back the strong....it is with generosity, opportunity, and appeals to the conscience of your fellow man...not enforced subsistence living and state sponsored slavery.

I'm sure you help the poor? The problem is that it sounds good, but it's all bullshit. The only people that help the poor are bleeding hearts, and Christian organizations...in the name of Christianity. "Compassionate conservatives" don't give a fuck about the poor as evidenced by Bush fighting against an extension for unemployment, even as rates reached recent(or record?) highs. Social programs help keep the country afloat, and without them, this country could well be socialist today. There was a fairly large support for socialism during the workers rights struggle of the early 1900's, and if not for some giving in by the elites, who knows what would have happened.

[whottt]

Very presumptuous, you don't know that he is a soon to be dictator. Okay, I've never lived under socialism, so I can't argue that it can be a good thing. In that case I should love only what I've lived under:capatilism. I don't hate it in theory, but it's the same problem with most system's, the rich elites fuck the poor and you end up with assholes in charge.


Get off your ass and make some money bitch...learn how to do it. Stop looking for a handout...you live in a country where you have a chance at being the Wealthiest man on Earth and a Government that wants to see you achieve it....

If you don't want that because money is "evil" well then...congrats..because that's what you got now.




This isn't a country where the government wipes your ass, because a government that wipes your ass usually ends up telling you when to shit......

This isn't that....it's non stop competition to achieve. It's the ultimate sporting event...and if you aren't cut out to be one of the winners...

You are still better off...because the quality of life at the poverty level here is still better than the upper class quality of life in any other socialist country.

Do you really want to give up the right to achieve individually, the right to call anything your own, to pursue your own lifes ambitions...just because you are jealous of the Rich?

Get the fuck over it, the Rich don't keep you poor here.... go out and get a job...or make up your own.


If you want an asswiping state get your ass over to North Korea...they'll be happy to wipe your ass for you...

[whottt]

I'm sure you help the poor? The problem is that it sounds good, but it's all bullshit. The only people that help the poor are bleeding hearts, and Christian organizations...in the name of Christianity. "Compassionate conservatives" don't give a fuck about the poor as evidenced by Bush fighting against an extension for unemployment, even as rates reached recent(or record?) highs. Social programs help keep the country afloat, and without them, this country could well be socialist today. There was a fairly large support for socialism during the workers rights struggle of the early 1900's, and if not for some giving in by the elites, who knows what would have happened.



Social programs and being a Socialist country are two different things...


Tell you what...if you want Socialism for yourself in America...

Go get on Welfare..., then come to me and I'll tell you what you should workd at doing every day....and then go do the work I tell you too, and pretend your welfare check is what you are being paid...that's Socialism.

Oh and give me your car and propety...I'll let you know when you can use it.

Socialism.

You own nothing...but you do get to eat...if that's your idea of life...I feel sorry for you.

[whottt]

I'm sure you help the poor? The problem is that it sounds good, but it's all bullshit. The only people that help the poor are bleeding hearts, and Christian organizations...in the name of Christianity. "Compassionate conservatives" don't give a fuck about the poor as evidenced by Bush fighting against an extension for unemployment, even as rates reached recent(or record?) highs. Social programs help keep the country afloat, and without them, this country could well be socialist today. There was a fairly large support for socialism during the workers rights struggle of the early 1900's, and if not for some giving in by the elites, who knows what would have happened.


Why do you think America has always been communist proof?

Because the fucking quality of life here prevents it...there aren't enough poor here for it's concepts to take root...

And American and it's citizens are the most fucking generous nation on the planet...yeah our official aid per capita isn't the highest...but the total amount is..and our private contributions from individual citizens smoke the living shit ouf the rest of the world combined.

[whottt]

Or if you want Socialism another way...

You could always go and join the US military...You'll still be better off than 90%(those that aren't part of the government) of the Socialist populations in the world.

[cecil collins]

Very eloquent...joking, but you should realize that vast wealth is most commonly determined by what you are born into. An example, Bush. Is Bush a better businessman than me...maybe, but is he a good one, no. He used his daddy's connections to make money, and is now easily a millionaire. You say that I should stop bitching and go out and get rich. Laughable...what are the chances of myself going and becoming a millionaire. They are easily less than 1 percent, and that's if I have the greedy drive to step all over others on my way there. I'm not saying capatilism has to be bad, but it does reward the worst forms of human life. I have a trashy job, but as long as I live modestly, I can survive, but that doesn't account for unexpected expenses, or those that can't get a job because corporations prefer paying 32 cents an hour. Even the bible says that money is the root of all evil. I'm not a christian, but many rich hypochrites are. Are you rich guy? You make it sound like a walk in the park.

[mookie2001]

sean hannity hosts an OPINION talk show on fox news
hes also a best selling author and the host of the 2nd most popular am talk radio show of all time

[whottt]

Very eloquent...joking, but you should realize that vast wealth is most commonly determined by what you are born into.

American Wealth? No...American Weath is gained by being an entrepreneur...

Was Manu Ginobili born into wealth?

Hell...ask TimVP and Kori...the owners of this site...I think they are doing ok...they both are able to earn a living from their home doing what I guess they love...

Ask them if they were born into it.






An example, Bush. Is Bush a better businessman than me...maybe, but is he a good one, no. He used his daddy's connections to make money, and is now easily a millionaire.

It's not that easy...I mean yeah he had connections...but he made it his own...he was a failed Oil man and is not even in that business...

He made the bulk of his money by leading investment groups where others supplied the capital and he got the group together...

He made most of his money of the Texas Rangers...and the group he put together didn't have a lot to do with his father...

The rest of his money he made in the Government...You should applaud that...that's the Socialist way of doing it.





You say that I should stop bitching and go out and get rich. Laughable...what are the chances of myself going and becoming a millionaire. They are easily less than 1 percent,

That's better odds than you get in a Socialist Country.

And I am starting to get a clearer picture here....

It's not the concept of the Rich you have a problem with...it's that you don't think you can be one of them...

Tough shit...

Difference between Socialism and Capitalism right here:

I want to be the tallest man in the World and have no shot at doing it...

If I am a capitalist I will try invent shoes that make me that man...or a hormone formula to cause my legs to grow...


If I am a socialist I will go and cut off the legs of everyone taller...the result is not that I actually get taller...it's just that I make everyone shorter....


So in reality it's not that I raise the level of height a human can be...I lower it.







and that's if I have the greedy drive to step all over others on my way there. I'm not saying capatilism has to be bad, but it does reward the worst forms of human life.

Not true at all...

Who was it that went and bailed out the fucking Tsunami victims while the rest of the world was sitting there witht heir thumbs up their asses?

Who has pioneered pharmaceutical and scientiffic development ushering in a technological century in which we advanced more than in all other the other centuries combined...ditto for quality of living?

The Capitalists.




I have a trashy job, but as long as I live modestly, I can survive, but that doesn't account for unexpected expenses, or those that can't get a job because corporations prefer paying 32 cents an hour.

Then do something else...



Even the bible says that money is the root of all evil.

It damn sure doesn't say Socialism is the solution. It just say money isn't the most important thing...a good message...but not one that proclaims Socialism as the guiding light...and Socialism damn sure doesn't embrace religion either.


I'm not a christian, but many rich hypochrites are. Are you rich guy? You make it sound like a walk in the park.

I am not rich, but that's because I am fucking lazy and being rich is not goal in life, but I have a better quality of life because of those whose goal it is to be wealthy. And compared to a Socialist country it is a walk in the park.

[Jelly]

Very eloquent...joking, but you should realize that vast wealth is most commonly determined by what you are born into. .

actually no... according to a study by Capgemini, fewer than 20% of wealthy individuals inherited their money.

from Fortune Magazine:

"A 2002 study by Capgemini found that more than half of the high-net-worth individuals in the U.S. were "new money," or self-made millionaires. According to the study, inherited money is declining as a share of wealth in the U.S., accounting for less than 20% of high-net-worth individuals in 2002"

[Jelly]

In fact, if you look at Fortunes list of 50 wealthiest people in America, the vast majority are self-made millionaires.

[whottt]

Republicandestino makes a good point...

I'd be willing to bet that most of the liberal wealth is silver spoon/married wealth. And the conservative wealth is entrepreneureal.

Bush earned his wealth more legitimately than Kerry....who married it.

[Jelly]

yeah like me
because my dad made his own money, unlike those begging liberals, i was able to attend a good high school, didnt have to get a job go to a good college, didnt have to get a job but internships at my dads friends practices, then from all my brothers i met at my frat they all had connections so i got a good job right away
i made my OWN money
self made baby

Surely you believe that a human being has the right to pass on his wealth to his kids don't you? Or are you saying that self-made millionaires must give their money to the state? Or do citizens not have the right to become wealthy in the first place?

Man, how many communists can one site have?

[jochhejaam]

Robertson's clarification from today;

We are in the midst of a war that is draining vast amounts of our treasure and is costing the blood of our armed forces. I am a person who believes in peace, but not peace at any price. However, I said before the war in Iraq began that the wisest course would be to wage war against Saddam Hussein, not the whole nation of Iraq. When faced with the threat of a comparable dictator in our own hemisphere, would it not be wiser to wage war against one person rather than finding ourselves down the road locked in another bitter struggle with a whole nation?


Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him.

Doesn't sound radical after reading the entire story and considering his apology.

Full Story:
http://cbn.com/about/pressrelease_hugochavez.asp

[mookie2001]

dam even TRO doesnt go the cbn.com

[MannyIsGod]

I think his apology was a more thought out response after he realized how his words sounded yesterday. The thing is, the more thought out response isn't what he really felt. No, what is really in his head was pretty much uttered in an unadulterated way yesterday.

He reconsidered what he said based on the consequences.

[mookie2001]

yeah i dont think the 700 club is live

[whottt]

I think his apology was a more thought out response after he realized how his words sounded yesterday. The thing is, the more thought out response isn't what he really felt. No, what is really in his head was pretty much uttered in an unadulterated way yesterday.

He reconsidered what he said based on the consequences.


He wouldn't have recanted that statement of his own voilition because he's too much of a horses ass...I think he got piled on by his own constituency...His comments are totally unacceptable for a religious leader.


He loses any credibility he might have in being critical of the stance of Hate preaching Mullahs that call for Bush's head.

And even worse...he made Chavez come off like the good guy.


The guy is an idiot and he did no one any favors with those comments....

Suppose some idiot Christian kills Chavez now...How is that going to look for his faith, America...etc?


If someone does kill Chavez because of Robertson's incitement, Robertson needs to be deported or imprisoned....just like the Mullahs.

[jochhejaam]

I think his apology was a more thought out response after he realized how his words sounded yesterday. The thing is, the more thought out response isn't what he really felt. No, what is really in his head was pretty much uttered in an unadulterated way yesterday.

He reconsidered what he said based on the consequences.

So you've never made a statement in your life that you've had to retract or modify? Well let me tell you that if you've ever retracted or modified anything, you actually meant what you originally said and lied after that. :rolleyes

You won't give him the benefit of the doubt why?




I learned tough lessons many years ago and that was not to put too much trust in anyone. People I love and looked up to with great admiration said or did things that were crushing, some time and time again.

I learned the hard way, like most of us do, that human love for one another isn't a perfect thing so I no longer trust or mistrust the ones I love. Maybe instead of mistrust I just lowered expectations. I take what each day brings and if it's a day of trustworthiness great, if not, no big deal, we're human and susceptible to failure and tomorrow's another day.

Most people have something positive to add to the lives of others. Glean and learn from the good in people, and don't make a big deal of their weaknesses or failures.

[mookie2001]

So you've never made a statement in your life that you've had to retract or modify? Well let me tell you that if you've ever retracted or modified anything, you actually meant what you originally said and lied after that. :rolleyes

You won't give him the benefit of the doubt why?


chode
1. he said it on HIS TAPED tv show
2. he's crazy this isnt the first crazy thing he's said
CBN is total bullshit, have you ever watched it?

[jochhejaam]

dam even TRO doesnt go the cbn.com

I don't go there often but I'm betting his the hits on his website have doubled or so recently.

Who's tro

[whottt]

Jocche...will you forgive Usama if he says he made a mistake?

He didn't actually kill anyone...he just incited it.


It's funny because I know I've heard Pat Robertson ripping on Charles Manson and saying he should be put to death...

Charles Manson didn't kill anyone either...he just incited it...just like Robertson.


Pat Robertson is a fucking tool.


This guy showed his ass and he needs to take it like a man...he gets no excuses for his comments.

[mookie2001]

i could see if he said it a bar while drinking beer with his friends and didnt know he was being taped

[mookie2001]

the ressurrected one
havent seen him in a while
he makes whottt look like howard dean

[jochhejaam]

thats 2 broken commandments he has advocated in 2 days.....'ol pat is on a roll.

tomorrow he's gonna say lets sleep with chavez' wife and steal his oil.


Have to throw this in flash. The problem is not in breaking the Commandments, the problem is in breaking them and not caring that you broke them

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. Matthew 18:21-22
That's not numerically specific, that's just to say as often as needed.

He made a mistake and admitted it, that's all he can do.

[mookie2001]

ive said some pretty wild, stupid, bullshit shit

but if i had a tv show that was pretaped i would watch it before hand and see if it contained anything as stupid as what he said

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=whottt]Jocche...will you forgive Usama if he says he made a mistake?

Hypothetical and won't happen whottt so I can't honestly answer that.



He didn't actually kill anyone...he just incited it.
It's funny because I know I've heard Pat Robertson ripping on Charles Manson and saying he should be put to death...
Charles Manson didn't kill anyone either...he just incited it...just like Robertson.

Robertson incited dialogue, Manson incited murder. Bad parallel



This guy showed his ass and he needs to take it like a man...he gets no excuses for his comments.

I agree, if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. I haven't defended his statement. I'm glad he retracted it.

[Jelly]

I think people are overreacting to this. Obviously, Christian televangelists shouldn't say such things...but come on guys...if you look deep in your heart, aren't there at least one or two people you'd plug if you had the chance. I would personally have taken out Hitler, Stalin, Edie Amin, and Pol Pot. And I'd have no moral qualms about it whatsoever, so don't try to appeal to my inner Christian.

[jochhejaam]

chode
1. he said it on HIS TAPED tv show
2. he's crazy this isnt the first crazy thing he's said
CBN is total bullshit, have you ever watched it?


It's been a long time since I've watched it with any regularity, maybe 15 or so years. Back in the day when he had some man named Ben something on the show with him.
I enjoyed it back then.

[cecil collins]

[QUOTE]American Wealth? No...American Weath is gained by being an entrepreneur...

Was Manu Ginobili born into wealth?

You're talking extremely rare instances.




He made the bulk of his money by leading investment groups where others supplied the capital and he got the group together...

He made most of his money of the Texas Rangers...and the group he put together didn't have a lot to do with his father...

The rest of his money he made in the Government...You should applaud that...that's the Socialist way of doing it.

And you're saying that being the presidents/vice presidents(depends at which point in time) had nothing to do with his success. Don't you think the investors loved being in bed with the presidents son. I don't believe he would have survived all his youthful indescretions politically, if not for his daddy's name.



And I am starting to get a clearer picture here....

It's not the concept of the Rich you have a problem with...it's that you don't think you can be one of them...

Tough shit...


I am fine with my place in the world, but not everyone is, and that is my problem. The rich horde all the money at the expense of the poor. I have no desire to be rich, and if it happened, I would certainly use it to cause a big change in the lives of as many as possible. Some of you people try to argue jealousy when someone disagrees with your POV.


So in reality it's not that I raise the level of height a human can be...I lower it.

So all the wealth being in the hands of the few doesn't in any way make the masses more poor, I think otherwise. It's like some people think that there is a limitless supply of money and everyone in the world could all be filthy rich at the same time, and that is just wrong.


Who was it that went and bailed out the fucking Tsunami victims while the rest of the world was sitting there witht heir thumbs up their asses?

The kind people of several countries including this one, and including myself.


Who has pioneered pharmaceutical and scientiffic development ushering in a technological century in which we advanced more than in all other the other centuries combined...ditto for quality of living?

The Capitalists.

Good point. A benefit of capatilism is medical progress. Money tends to be a better motivating factor than goodwill. I don't dislike capatilism in theory, but I would prefer a modified capatilism with more social programs.


It damn sure doesn't say Socialism is the solution. It just say money isn't the most important thing...a good message...but not one that proclaims Socialism as the guiding light...and Socialism damn sure doesn't embrace religion either.

Don't believe it says anything about socialism, but it seems to me that by the teachings of Jesus would lean more towards socialism then capatilism. Again I'm not religious, so I am no authority on the matter.

[whottt]

You're talking extremely rare instances.

And you're saying that being the presidents/vice presidents(depends at which point in time) had nothing to do with his success. Don't you think the investors loved being in bed with the presidents son. I don't believe he would have survived all his youthful indescretions politically, if not for his daddy's name.

Bill Gates is the wealthiest man in the World...he was a college dropout.




The rich horde all the money at the expense of the poor. I have no desire to be rich, and if it happened, I would certainly use it to cause a big change in the lives of as many as possible. Some of you people try to argue jealousy when someone disagrees with your POV.


Ahh I see...so you advocate stealing what you lack the capability to earn...

That's criminal.

In Socialist countries the government holds all the wealth...the wealth lies in the hands of even fewer people.

And there is zero chance of altering that...and you don't even get the opportunity.





So all the wealth being in the hands of the few doesn't in any way make the masses more poor, I think otherwise. It's like some people think that there is a limitless supply of money and everyone in the world could all be filthy rich at the same time, and that is just wrong.


Hey motherfucker...you just said you don't mind being poor...


You lack to the motivation to become wealthy...so your solution is to steal from those who don't?

What if someone wants to be fucking homeless...you advocate punishing those that don't?






Good point. A benefit of capatilism is medical progress. Money tends to be a better motivating factor than goodwill. I don't dislike capatilism in theory, but I would prefer a modified capatilism with more social programs.


And I'll give this coup Socialism...the emphasis it places on education is a huge positive...but it's nothing that can't be incorporated into a Capitalist system.



Don't believe it says anything about socialism, but it seems to me that by the teachings of Jesus would lean more towards socialism then capatilism. Again I'm not religious, so I am no authority on the matter.

Well a lot of people seem to think the bible advocates being destitute...it most certainly does not...

What it says is god helps those that help themselves....

Socialism punishes those that help themselves and it helps those that have no desire to help themselves.

It's not a good system...we aren't fucking ants.


Like I said...if you are so in love with Socialism...I seriously reccomend you going to a Socialist Country...


If you want to give up your freedom then do so...but why do you want to steal the freedom, the property, and the intellect of others?

You see...you can't be a Capitalist in a Socialist Society...but you can be a Socialist in a Capitalist Society...you'll just be miserable one.

[cecil collins]

I'm not miserable, just not entirely satisfied. I don't care about being poor, and I don't know where your confusion with that lies, explain. Also, I never said anything about stealing, please explain how you read that. I was saying that people think that capatilism means that either you are rich or lazy, and that is untrue. I don't have the want to be rich, and I am not lazy. I don't work terribly hard to earn someone else a buck, but that's my perrogative.

[Nbadan]

He's the leader of the Democratic Party...

He has more political pull and voter backing in that party than any other person.

:lol

Anyone who thinks that Michael Moore runs the Democratic Party is deranged and needs to quit listening to right-wing radio for awhile.

[Nbadan]

Republicandestino makes a good point...

I'd be willing to bet that most of the liberal wealth is silver spoon/married wealth. And the conservative wealth is entrepreneureal.

Bush earned his wealth more legitimately than Kerry....who married it.

Let's examine some of W's business deals before becoming TX Governor:

:lol

Arbusto.....bankrupt...W's company, set up by Dad, specialized in digging dry holes.

Harken....bankrupt...another business deal set up by Dad that went wrong, but this time W was able to cash out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stock options a few days before the Harken fall, no SEC investigation was ever launched thanks to daddy.

Texas Rangers...turned a $400,000 investment into a $5+million dollar investment in a matter of months due in large part to the owner of Clear Channel Communications over-paying for the team. No favors involved there, right?

Yes, W was a hard working entrepreneur who turned flailing companies like, well, none, around. In fact, prior to becoming TX Governor, W managed to bankrupt every company he ever worked for and every business deal his Dad set up for him. Yeah, that's not being born with a silver spoon in your mouth though

[whottt]

Let's examine some of W's business deals before becoming TX Governor:

:lol

Arbusto.....bankrupt...W's company, set up by Dad, specialized in digging dry holes.

Harken....bankrupt...another business deal set up by Dad that went wrong, but this time W was able to cash out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stock options a few days before the Harken fall, no SEC investigation was ever launched thanks to daddy.

Texas Rangers...turned a $400,000 investment into a $5+million dollar investment in a matter of months due in large part to the owner of Clear Channel Communications over-paying for the team. No favors involved there, right?

Yes, W was a hard working entrepreneur who turned flailing companies like, well, none, around. In fact, prior to becoming TX Governor, W managed to bankrupt every company he ever worked for and every business deal his Dad set up for him. Yeah, that's not being born with a silver spoon in your mouth though


Hey...I already said he was a failed Oil man...

But what he did with the Rangers was legitimate....he took them from being a defacto minor league team to being a legitimate franchise... laid the foundation for the best era in team history and the only era they were truly a winner.



He hired the right people, resigned the big name FA's for the first time in team history, and he marketed the team well. He turned them into a winner and then used fan support to get the taxpayers to build a new stadium and supercharge the value of the franchise.

It's just ignorant to claim his Dad had anything to do with that success story. He pulled that one off on his own. And believe it or not...the Rangers are better off for W having owned them...that still stands as the highmark in team history.

The rest of it he got out of politics....like other politicians.

[whottt]

:lol

Anyone who thinks that Michael Moore runs the Democratic Party is deranged and needs to quit listening to right-wing radio for awhile.


I don't listen to right wing radio and to the best of my knowledge the right generally regards him as an extremist...but the fact is that he isn't percieved as an extreme lefty by America...he represents the loudest voice of the Democratic party.


Now maybe he's not saying much anymore...but most of the Democrats I see are saying the exact same things he says....

Dan...you are a fucking extremist under most definitions...but you aren't extreme for a Democrat nowdays...you are no longer even the most extreme lefty on this forum. boutons has kicked your ass in the crazy lefty department.

You can say Michael Moore isn't the face of the Democratic Party...but the fact is he took a big piss on your party in this past election and marked it as his territory, and it's up to the Crats to extricate themselves from that perception...I don't think ya'll can do it because I think most of ya'll share his views. And as long as that perception exists, the moderates, which represent most of America, are going to tilt to the right. Then again...Pat Robertson may end up giving the crats a lot of help...but it's ultimately going to be up to who your candidate is.


Look...the American people are not Oil hungry intentionally...they aren't fascists...but they also aren't wacked out lefties either...they'll embrace a good candidate from either party...but the left has to show something better on terrorism than appeasing it, sympathizing with it...and seeing America as the bad guy. No one is going to vote for a candiate that sees America as the bad guy. Figure it out.

[boutons]

"he represents the loudest voice of the Democratic party. "

BS. He made a couple of HUMOUROUS films, so he and his films are famous.

Although it's clear you wish he'd shut the fuck up with his dissent so America would have fewer voices and points of view different from your extreme right, xenophobic, chauvinist radicalism, he's in no way "loud" or in any way officially representing Dem party.

[MannyIsGod]

The funniest thing about Micheal Moore is that conservatives care so much more about him than liberals do.

[FromWayDowntown]

So you've never made a statement in your life that you've had to retract or modify? Well let me tell you that if you've ever retracted or modified anything, you actually meant what you originally said and lied after that. :rolleyes

You won't give him the benefit of the doubt why?

It goes way beyond that. I won't give Robertson the benefit of the doubt for two reasons: (1) his retraction was insincere; and (2) this is not the first time he's said something stupid.

I don't think Robertson's retraction was sincere. I deduce that primarily because the retraction you cite was his second shot at it. Initially, rather than own up to the stupidity of his statement, he contended that the media had misinterpreted his comments. Only after the media reported the precise context of Robertson's initial statements, and showed that he was full of crap in trying to pass the buck, did Robertson finally retract the statement and acknowledge that it was both asinine and immoral. And at that, his retraction was far from unconditional. I seriously doubt that Robertson thinks there was anything wrong with what he initially said.

More than that, Robertson repeatedly puts his foot in his mouth by openly advocating for harm to others. The one that strikes closest to home for me is the story about his 2003 "prayer offensive," which essentially prayed for worsening health of three Supreme Court justices (one who is old, one who has cancer, and one who has a heart condition), in the hope that it would cause them to retire from the Bench. Robertson was given sufficient rope to hang himself in that instance, and did it. I truly believe that Robertson is quite cool with harm befalling humans who disagree with his vision of a theocratic American state.

Maybe it's just me, but I find most of what Robertson says and preaches to be repugnant to the basic tenets of Christian religion . . . .

[boutons]

exacty. Grand Mullah Roberston has used his pulpit to spew so much inflammatory, outrageous bile that he way past excusing.

I put him in the same boat at Jean-Marie Le Pen, a right-wing rabble-rouser in France who, among many such comments, belittled the Nazi/Jewish Holocaust as a "small detail of history". Denying the Holocaust France is actually explicitly illegal.


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[whottt]

The funniest thing about Micheal Moore is that conservatives care so much more about him than liberals do.


Translation: The funniest thing about Michael Moore is that conservatives care so much more about getting elected than liberals do.




http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/mmoore2.jpg


You and Nbadan are full of shit...the Democrats tried to ride that film and it's rhetoric into the whitehouse and they failed at it...and now they have to deal with the reprecussions....


Don't even say that the Democrats weren't trying to ride this guy for everything he is worth in the last election...it's just a flat out lie to deny it.


And don't say the Republicans are the reason for this perception...sitting the guy next to an Ex-President at your convention is what is responsible for that appearance...

And not only was it a stupid thing to do imagewise...

But since the Carter era was just about the worst of the last 50 years...it wasn't like Carter conjured up fond memories for Joe Public.

[mookie2001]

The funniest thing about Micheal Moore is that conservatives care so much more about him than liberals do.
exactly
nobody would ever mention his ass if it wasnt for whottt

[whottt]

exactly
nobody would ever mention his ass if it wasnt for whottt


I don't blame the Democrats for trying to distance themselves from their mistakes, in fact I think it's the right thing to do...they just aren't doing a very good job of it. Why? Because the good Democrats are the minority...or gone.


And the majority of them now are people that got their knowledge of history from googling left wing blogs.


It's Michael Moore's party now...and you are his peasantry.

[Nbadan]

http://www.cagle.com/news/PatRobertson/images/horsey.gif

[Spurminator]

Uh, I think comparing Hugo Chavez to Jesus Christ is a bit of a stretch....

[Jelly]

Uh, I think comparing Hugo Chavez to Jesus Christ is a bit of a stretch....

no kidding :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Nbadan]

If you want to debate Hugo Chavez go ahead, but fair warning that much of the news we hear coming out of Venzuela these days has about the same level of credibility of the intelligence we were getting from Iraq after 911.

[whottt]

If you want to debate Hugo Chavez go ahead, but fair warning that much of the news we hear coming out of Venzuela these days has about the same level of credibility of the intelligence we were getting from Iraq after 911.



That's awfully non-commital on you Dan....


There are a lot of Democratic positives about Chavez...why aren't you on the Chavez bandwagon?

1.Hates America
2.Is Pro-Terrorist
3.Socialism is the only way
4.Celebrated the 911 attacks.
5.Helping Radical Muslims get passports.

Sounds like a good Democratic Presidential Candidate if you ask me.

And there's even some lesser reasons for a Democrat to like him...

6.Is taxing the crap out of big oil.
7.Breaking contracts with them.


And even some reasons you could be touting him to Republicans:

7.Pouring a ton of money into the educational system of Venezuela.
8.Rebuilding Venzuela's infrastructure.


I really don't understand why you aren't embracing him more fully...

Afraid of what the future holds in store for the Venzuelan People and the rest of South America, perhaps?


Commit Dan...let's see you lay your political acumen on the line here...


"Socialism is the only way"(to pave the way for a communist dictatorship)

[Nbadan]

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[Nbadan]

Chavez to seek legal action against Pat Robertson and may even seek legal extradition. Wouldn't it be something to see Robertson wheeled to Venezuela if he was found guilty.


CARACAS, Venezuela, Aug 28 (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Sunday his government would take legal action against Pat Robertson and potentially seek his extradition after the U.S. evangelist called for Washington to assassinate the South American leader.

Robertson, who later apologized for the remark, said he was expressing his frustration with Chavez's constant accusations against the administration of President George W. Bush.

"I announce that my government is going to take legal action in the United States ... to call for the assassination of a head of state is an act of terrorism." Chavez said in a televised speech.

Alertnet (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N2886425.htm)

"We could offer him free psychiatric treatment ... but he could be a lost case" Chavez said sarcastically of Robertson and controversial statements the conservative commentator has made in the past.

:lol

[Jelly]

Chavez to seek legal action against Pat Robertson and may even seek legal extradition. Wouldn't it be something to see Robertson wheeled to Venezuela if he was found guilty.



Alertnet (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N2886425.htm)

"We could offer him free psychiatric treatment ... but he could be a lost case" Chavez said sarcastically of Robertson and controversial statements the conservative commentator has made in the past.

:lol

extradite Roberts? :lmao :lmao Is this Chavez guy a clown or what? I guess he doesn't realize that the United States is not a dictatorship. The whole 'free speech thing' must be lost on poor Hugo. (and maybe even you Dan)

[Nbadan]

I'm all for free speech, just not threatening people while millions of people are watching and then later issueing a less than sincere apology for having done so.

Chavez has huge huevos.

[smeagol]

Chavez has huge huevos.
Yeah sure, Chavez is the man! :depressed

[cecil collins]

6.Is taxing the crap out of big oil.
7.Breaking contracts with them.
Fuck Yeah. I'm sure the contracts were much to the favor of big oil. These multinational corporations make a killing off the resources of the poorer countries, and sometimes you need someone to step up and put a stop to it. How are these countries going to thrive when the resources are all being exploited by the big bullies.


And even some reasons you could be touting him to Republicans:

7.Pouring a ton of money into the educational system of Venezuela.
8.Rebuilding Venzuela's infrastructure.



Actually, as far as I know, Bush's administration gives less funding(more BS jibber jabber) to public education. If Bush had his way, charter schools would be predominant: what a douche.

[Jelly]

I'm all for free speech, just not threatening people while millions of people are watching and then later issueing a less than sincere apology for having done so.

Chavez has huge huevos.

eggs?
:lol

[Spurminator]

If Chavez isn't careful, he's gonna make himself look like the bad guy again.

[Nbadan]

Yeah sure, Chavez is the man! :depressed

On again, we didn't vote for him. Venezuela did.

[smeagol]

On again, we didn't vote for him. Venezuela did.
What does the Venezuelans voting for Chavez have to do with anything?

You keep giving this idiot props and I keep telling you he is an ignorant guy who happens to be lucky enough to run a country full of oil with oil at $70.

[Jelly]

I still want to know what Dan means when he says Chavez has huge "huevos".
Dan, did you mean to say "cahones"?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I still want to know what Dan means when he says Chavez has huge "huevos".
Dan, did you mean to say "cahones"?

Huge balls, or guts (according to Dan...)

[Bandit2981]

I still want to know what Dan means when he says Chavez has huge "huevos".
Dan, did you mean to say "cahones"?
Same difference.

[Jelly]

Same difference.

No man. One means eggs and the other means balls. Big difference. Does Chavez have huge eggs or huge balls? Attention to detail people.

[whottt]

Balls are called huevos in Spanish too...I am not sure if that is the way the word is spelled though. It's pronounced wevos...

[cecil collins]

Wow, if this is attention to detail, I'd rather not. You know what he means, so can we stop this slippage into to shit river.

[Jelly]

Wow, if this is attention to detail, I'd rather not. You know what he means, so can we stop this slippage into to shit river.

Please. This whole thread is nothing but shit river. I'm just having some fun with Dan (who by the way, takes himself way too seriously.) Who gives a rat's ass what Pat Robertson says? Is there one person on this forum who defends Pat Robertson. Was this thread ever meant to be thought inspiring or provocative in any way? Give me a break.
:shootme

[cecil collins]

I think conservatives are just trying to distance themselves with him. Someones gotta like him, or why the hell is he on TV 3 times a day with a show.

[Useruser666]

I think conservatives are just trying to distance themselves with him. Someones gotta like him, or why the hell is he on TV 3 times a day with a show.

Because you, Dan and others are tuning into him so you can use him to bash others that don't agree with you through guilt by association. I can't believe this thread is still going. Has anyone defended what he said? Does anyone like him here? No? Then STFU about him. You only fuel people like him by constantly bringing up such a dead issue.

[smeagol]

Huevos=balls=cojones=pelotas=nuts=bolas=testiculos =saco de huevas

Everybody clear now?

[Nbadan]

Like I said before, Hugo Chavez has huge huevos.


CARACAS (AFP) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send food and fuel to the United States after the powerful Hurricane Katrina pummeled the US south, ravaging US crude production.

The leftist leader, a frequent critic of the United States and a target himself of US disapproval, said Venezuela could send aid workers with drinking water, food and fuel to US communities hit by the hurricane.

"We place at the disposition of the people of the United States in the event of shortages -- we have drinking water, food, we can provide fuel," Chavez told reporters.

Yahoo News

The US should take him up on his offer. Lets start with cheap gas at all Citgo stores in the area.

[cecil collins]

Because you, Dan and others are tuning into him so you can use him to bash others that don't agree with you through guilt by association. I can't believe this thread is still going. Has anyone defended what he said? Does anyone like him here? No? Then STFU about him. You only fuel people like him by constantly bringing up such a dead issue.

Conservatives continue to say that he is irrelevant, but that is hooey. Just admit he holds some influence, and you will be right that there is no debate. People are not fueled by being bashed unless someone likes them. Name one time that a guy who nobody supported or liked, and was consistently made fun of and bashed, had his own show, on TV 3 times a day.

[Useruser666]

Conservatives continue to say that he is irrelevant, but that is hooey. Just admit he holds some influence, and you will be right that there is no debate. People are not fueled by being bashed unless someone likes them. Name one time that a guy who nobody supported or liked, and was consistently made fun of and bashed, had his own show, on TV 3 times a day.

Uh, who said I'm a conservative? How about Jerry Springer? You are promoting him in the same ways. Why talk about people who's opinions mean jack shit, and whose soul source of power is grown from media exposure.

[cecil collins]

Jerry Springer does have a following, sad but true.

[Useruser666]

Jerry Springer does have a following, sad but true.

Exactly, and I take the things he says with the same grain of salt.

[whottt]

User...just in case you aren't familiar with Cecil's posts...

This is guy is an admitted pinko commie motherfucker...who thinks the world would be a better place if Castro ruled us all...

Basically, if you make money he resents you...he thinks that since he isn't able to figure out how to use the opportunities afforded to him by this country, that you shouldn't be able too either.....

So you might as well save your breath...unless you want to go and nationalize all the industry in this country, thus stealing it from the those who built it and slaughtering them in the process...You two are probably not going to find much common ground.

He's an unabashed commie...

[cecil collins]

And also an American, who has differing opinions, and you don't sound too respectful...unless being a motherfucker is a good thing where you come from. Why so angry Whott, are you still scared of the big bad commies?

[whottt]

Why so angry Whott, are you still scared of the big bad commies?



Not scared of individual commies like yourself....only when there are a bunch of them....

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

[cecil collins]

Hence the danger of the US government.

[whottt]

Okay...you do scare me...