is kyrie a championship level 3rd option

[King Emmanuel]

discuss

[SpurSwag]

He's talented enough to be a great 2nd option on a championship team, if he plays his role well he will do incredibly as a 3rd/2nd option to Lebron. He's also the difference between me calling Cleveland favorites, if he fits in well and doesn't force things they will be really tough to beat

[illusioNtEk]

He is already a superstar in my book, should be matured by now, and with lebron leading the way he will shine

[Brunodf]

He is better than 2003 Parker

[Venti Quattro]

On paper, very much. Put him in the 2013 Spurs and they're B2B winners now

[baseline bum]

I get the feeling they're going to end up wanting to trade him later on. They need a shooting guard, but how are you ever going to get equal value for Irving at that position? Especially when Klay Thompson and Bradley Beal both play on teams with quality young point guards? Has Irving even played a second of competitive basketball where he wasn't the primary ball handler controlling every possession? I wonder if he can adapt to handling the ball mostly on the break and when LeBron is on the bench, and being a shooter playing off James in the halfcourt.

[DPG21920]

Kyrie being able to shoot and actually hanlde the ball is huge. Big difference in being able to pressure Lebron and dare Chalmers to beat you vs Kyrie on offense.

[Malik Hairston]

Obviously as a talent he's good enough to be a legit #2, but he's one of the worst defenders in the league and has minimal experience playing off the ball..to be fair, he's dealt with poor coaches and teammates so far in his career, but he still has a lot to prove in regards to style of play that's conducive to winning basketball..

[Venti Quattro]

I get the feeling they're going to end up wanting to trade him later on. They need a shooting guard, but how are you ever going to get equal value for Irving at that position? Especially when Klay Thompson and Bradley Beal both play on teams with quality young point guards? Has Irving even played a second of competitive basketball where he wasn't the primary ball handler controlling every possession? I wonder if he can adapt to handling the ball mostly on the break and when LeBron is on the bench, and being a shooter playing off James in the halfcourt.

Hopefully Kyrie took notes from Wade. The earlier he realizes that the better the chances of the Cavs winning will be. He not only has to adjust to LeBron, he also needs to adjust to Love.

[Malik Hairston]

Hopefully Kyrie took notes from Wade. The earlier he realizes that the better the chances of the Cavs winning will be. He not only has to adjust to LeBron, he also needs to adjust to Love.

Love is accustomed to playing off the ball, so he's probably going to fit perfectly..

The fit question will be mostly concerning Irving and LeCoon, not just from Irving's standpoint, but also LeCoon's..he's probably going to have to play more off the ball as he ages, which isn't something he did much of in Miami(or at any point of his basketball life)..

[Chinook]

Should have traded Irving for Love. They could have kept Wiggins and balanced out their payroll by finding a cheaper PG.

[DPG21920]

Should have traded Irving for Love. They could have kept Wiggins and balanced out their payroll by finding a cheaper PG.

Don't disagree, but they are trying to win now and in the real world, it's extremely rare for rookies to contribute (whether we agree or not with the win-now decision).

[Killakobe81]

Kyrie being able to shoot and actually hanlde the ball is huge. Big difference in being able to pressure Lebron and dare Chalmers to beat you vs Kyrie on offense.

I agree with Deeps, If Lebron is the beast we expect from the past two years ...absolutely. Wade had his moments in 2013 but was already heading towards TOSB status and Lebron led the Heat to a title. yes it took a Ray miracle and James at a elite level but if Lebron maintains a high level of play ...of course Kyrie can. Love should be able to provide Bosh's offense with better rebounding. too bad on defense he is not even close.

[Raven]

Should have traded Irving for Love. They could have kept Wiggins and balanced out their payroll by finding a cheaper PG.

solid take.

[Raven]

obviously it's too early to say no, he is still young and can still learn how to play, but the early part of his career is overwhelmingly strong. The 2014 cavs could be the next best thing when it comes to failures.

[Raven]

Don't disagree, but they are trying to win now and in the real world, it's extremely rare for rookies to contribute (whether we agree or not with the win-now decision).

if they can defend, it's not.

[spurraider21]

Obviously as a talent he's good enough to be a legit #2, but he's one of the worst defenders in the league and has minimal experience playing off the ball..to be fair, he's dealt with poor coaches and teammates so far in his career, but he still has a lot to prove in regards to style of play that's conducive to winning basketball..
well put. had similar thoughts but you already put it out there

[DPG21920]

if they can defend, it's not.

Name the rookies that played a significant role on a team that won a title in recent years.

[Raven]

Name the rookies that played a significant role on a team that won a title in recent years.

rondo, but that's mostly because contenders don't get lottery picks...

[Chinook]

rondo, but that's mostly because contenders don't get lottery picks...

Rondo wasn't a rookie.

[kobe4life]

I can't say he is since he's playing with the Great Satan. The Great Satan will hurt his game since both are ball dominant players. With the Great Satan controlling the ball I can't Kyrie being good at playing off the ball. Kyrie will have the same problems Wade had playing with the Great Satan.

[Chinook]

Don't disagree, but they are trying to win now and in the real world, it's extremely rare for rookies to contribute (whether we agree or not with the win-now decision).

Then they could have trade Wiggins for something else, like a proven championship defender or an elite center. The issue is that the Cavs will probably need next season to adjust to each other. After that, they'll have three max deals on their books and three key players looking for new deals in Anderson, Waiters and Thompson. They'll be forced to either go DEEP into the tax to keep their team together or let corish guys go and only have the MLE to replace them. They'd pretty much have no tax problems if they moved Irving's max deal, even if they took a large contract back besides Love.

It's obvious Cleveland is in win-now mode due to James' contract and general age. But they shouldn't be in championship-or-bust mode yet. They're too young overall and had too much talent to have a one- or two-year window. Their window is about the same length as the Spurs'. That's pretty disturbing for a team that has had three of the last four first-overall picks.

[Raven]

Rondo wasn't a rookie.

norris cole i guess?

[Chinook]

Ginobili is pretty much what you're looking for.

[Raven]

Ginobili is pretty much what you're looking for.

not sure it counts tbh :lol

[DPG21920]

Then they could have trade Wiggins for something else, like a proven championship defender or an elite center. The issue is that the Cavs will probably need next season to adjust to each other. After that, they'll have three max deals on their books and three key players looking for new deals in Anderson, Waiters and Thompson. They'll be forced to either go DEEP into the tax to keep their team together or let corish guys go and only have the MLE to replace them. They'd pretty much have no tax problems if they moved Irving's max deal, even if they took a large contract back besides Love.

It's obvious Cleveland is in win-now mode due to James' contract and general age. But they shouldn't be in championship-or-bust mode yet. They're too young overall and had too much talent to have a one- or two-year window. Their window is about the same length as the Spurs'. That's pretty disturbing for a team that has had three of the last four first-overall picks.

Well, I don't disagree with any of that, but Love is a top 10 talent and CLE is a place (even with Lebron) that has had trouble attracting that level of talent. They made a move for something unproven (Wiggins) to get something that is known and immediately (even with chemistry issues at first) makes them a legit contender. Hard not to do that.

Love is a damn good fit IMO and they can always try and find a complimentary piece defensively easier than they could get a Love (they had to trade for someone and those types aren't always available). In theory I agree and I have the feeling (unless it's just works perfectly as is) they will trade Kyrie. So they aren't dead yet.

But their ownership better be ready to pay up if this works and they plan on keeping everyone together. They still have plenty of youth and much of it will need to be paid a lot more than they currently are in the upcoming years.

[DPG21920]

norris cole i guess?

This kind of makes my point.

[Raven]

This kind of makes my point.

i don't think so, it's more about good teams not getting good rookies than about good rookies not performing.

[DPG21920]

i don't think so, it's more about good teams not getting good rookies than about good rookies not performing.

Disagree, but the proof is there. Rookies, for whatever reason, haven't helped title teams in reality. It's exceedingly rare to have a major impact, let alone any impact. Plenty of good teams (playoff teams) have gotten good rookies.

[Raven]

Disagree, but the proof is there. Rookies, for whatever reason, haven't helped title teams in reality. It's exceedingly rare to have a major impact, let alone any impact. Plenty of good teams (playoff teams) have gotten good rookies.

well you said won, that narrows the target by a huge margin tbh.. There's plenty who contributed and almost won, and most of the time they were good defenders.

[Galileo]

Kyrie = overrated.

Love = overrated

Lebron = overrated

A. Bennett = underrated

Cavs = overrated

[DAF86]

Should have traded Irving for Love. They could have kept Wiggins and balanced out their payroll by finding a cheaper PG.

I came to say exactly that. For many things:

1) It's a lot easier to get talented PGs that can contribute to a chamipnship than wings. I would have rather keep a 6'8'' guy with great potential that at worst can become a solid D and 3 guy, than a talented PG that plays no D. You keep Wiggins and then sign someone to handle the rock, be adecuate on defense and hit the occasional open jumper, ex: Steve Blake, Darren Collinson, Ramon Sessions, Mario Chalmers (proving he isn't done), Aaron Brooks, Mo Williams, Bayless, etc, etc, etc. the talent pool on the PG position is way deeper.

2) The money. If Wiggins turns out to be somewhat close to what everyone expects having him signed on a rookie contract for a couple of years gives you great cap space flexibility.

3) I really wanted to see Lebron and Wiggins playing toghether.

[DPG21920]

Well, why would the Wolves want Kyrie over Wiggins? That changes the variable easily and other offers were better than Maxed Out Kyrie (plus they have Rubio).

[Chinook]

Well, I don't disagree with any of that, but Love is a top 10 talent and CLE is a place (even with Lebron) that has had trouble attracting that level of talent. They made a move for something unproven (Wiggins) to get something that is known and immediately (even with chemistry issues at first) makes them a legit contender. Hard not to do that.

Love is a damn good fit IMO and they can always try and find a complimentary piece defensively easier than they could get a Love (they had to trade for someone and those types aren't always available). In theory I agree and I have the feeling (unless it's just works perfectly as is) they will trade Kyrie. So they aren't dead yet.

But their ownership better be ready to pay up if this works and they plan on keeping everyone together. They still have plenty of youth and much of it will need to be paid a lot more than they currently are in the upcoming years.

I can't see both Varejao and Thompson back in 2015. It just won't make sense to have that many highly paid front-court players on the same team. I also don't see Waiters back if James is serious about getting a max deal with the new 2016 cap. So to me, it's not so much a Wiggins vs Love thing as it is an Irving vs Wiggins, Bennett, Thompson and Waiters thing.

It's also sad that they're going to end up wasting their dust chip because they won't be able to acquire a player in a S&T next season.

[Chinook]

Well, why would the Wolves want Kyrie over Wiggins? That changes the variable easily and other offers were better than Maxed Out Kyrie (plus they have Rubio).

Could have easily sent him to a third team with assets like Sacramento or Orlando.

[DPG21920]

Could have easily sent him to a third team with assets like Sacramento or Orlando.

I just doubt that out of the reported offer, any other asset outside of Wiggins would be more appealing to Minny.

[Chinook]

I just doubt that out of the reported offer, any other asset outside of Wiggins would be more appealing to Minny.

More appealing than what, though? The Cavs just had to beat Golden State's offer. Minny had no real leverage.

[DPG21920]

More appealing than what, though? The Cavs just had to beat Golden State's offer. Minny had no real leverage.

This is where I disagree with many who say that. If Love was the apple of CLE's eye (which appears to be the case right or wrong) Minny had plenty of leverage. If CLE wanted Love, their only chance was to trade. They could not attain him in FA. There were plenty of teams who wanted Love (GS, CHI, PHX) that had nice assets.

No 3rd party team assets in a deal moving Kyrie landed Minny their favorite target: Wiggins. If they couldn't get Wiggins, then I think the reported deals probably would also interest Minny more than either landing Kyrie or the assets from moving Kyrie to a third team.

[ElNono]

I'm just devastated my Wiggins2Lebron troll idea isn't going to pan out... I thought it had great potential, tbh..

[Chinook]

This is where I disagree with many who say that. If Love was the apple of CLE's eye (which appears to be the case right or wrong) Minny had plenty of leverage. If CLE wanted Love, their only chance was to trade. They could not attain him in FA. There were plenty of teams who wanted Love (GS, CHI, PHX) that had nice assets.

No 3rd party team assets in a deal moving Kyrie landed Minny their favorite target: Wiggins. If they couldn't get Wiggins, then I think the reported deals probably would also interest Minny more than either landing Kyrie or the assets from moving Kyrie to a third team.

Did we even hear about any other offers? We heard about interested teams, but the most I heard was Chicago trying to trade scraps or Golden State being unwilling to part with Thompson. Phoenix offered Bledsoe (worse than Irving) and mid-first-rounders. The Cavs deal was the best by far.

Minny had no leverage. The whole "You really want this guy," thing isn't leverage at all. Cleveland had two All-Stars; the Wolves had a disgruntled star who told them he was definitely leaving if they didn't trade him to the team of his choice. Sure, Minny could have decided to take a worst package just to spite Cleveland, but if that's the case, it's pretty much hopeless anyway. And the Cavs could have easily made the room to sign Love next summer had they been willing to move Irving. It's his max deal that would have made it difficult to get enough cap space together.

This is just like the Chandler situation. The Cavs paid a price they could live with, even though they paid significantly more than they had to. It's up to them to make sure it's worth it in the end. But constantly losing the value game is how you end up squandering assets over and over. Minny knows all about that.

[Raven]

More appealing than what, though? The Cavs just had to beat Golden State's offer. Minny had no real leverage.

if you put it that way, cleveland had no reason to trade for love in the first place.. also they had no reason to sign irving to a max that soon either.

[LkrFan]

If healthy, yes. But he's been an injury waiting to happen. Has he ever played a full season since high school? Gotta be dependable. Oh and he's a playoff virgin - much like Love. :lol

[100%duncan]

i don't think so, it's more about good teams not getting good rookies than about good rookies not performing.

You count cole but not manu lmfao

[Raven]

You count cole but not manu lmfao

Well manu was a top 5 player in the world even before coming to SA, so it's a bit unfair.

[lefty]

He is better than 2003 Parker
He is better than any year Parker

This is not B:lol:lolbie Gibs:loln

[100%duncan]

Well manu was a top 5 player in the world even before coming to SA, so it's a bit unfair.
No he was not.

But, he did more shit than Cole to win the 'ship in his rookie year.

[jimbo]

Should have traded Irving for Love. They could have kept Wiggins and balanced out their payroll by finding a cheaper PG.

Lol didn't realize you'd said this. This is exactly what I've been saying. Those rookie deals are way too good to pass up on. A 17-18 million PG ain't worth it unless they're a complete difference maker anyways... (or if you have no other choice, like what they thought when they signed that contract)

[z0sa]

Well manu was a top 5 player in the world even before coming to SA, so it's a bit unfair.

if by world you mean all those places 'MERICA polices, it's debatable

[Killakobe81]

I'm just devastated my Wiggins2Lebron troll idea isn't going to pan out... I thought it had great potential, tbh..

How many trolls do you still use, El? I havent seen many good ones lately and I would expect big things if it was yours.

[Silver&Black]

Voted no....

But I will say he's not that far off. Give him a couple years...maybe a couple deep playoff runs...and I might change my mind.

[Silver&Black]

Hell...is Kevin Love championship level 2nd option??? idk

[ElNono]

How many trolls do you still use, El? I havent seen many good ones lately and I would expect big things if it was yours.

I actually have no troll accounts...

[spurraider21]

no time as he pushes for 100k. marcus bryant looking over his shoulder and shit

[ElNono]

no time as he pushes for 100k. marcus bryant looking over his shoulder and shit

:lol