Where does Richard Jefferson rank all-time in the Spurs SF list?

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

He sucks during his stay with the Spurs but I have him in my top 10.

1. Gervin
2. Bowen
3. Sugar K
4 - 10. ??? (Willis, Turkoglu, Finley, RJ?)

Finley and Gervin are not even true SFs

what do you think guys?

[Dex]

Who?

[Joseph Kony]

On par with Melvin Sanders and Linton Johnson III

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

On par with Melvin Sanders and Linton Johnson III

can you list your top 10?

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

Who?

don't you know how to read?

[Joseph Kony]

can you list your top 10?

Does it matter? Aside from Leonard/Bowen who really cares. Jefferson was shit. He may not have literally been as shitty as those guys but for the expectations he brought, his laziness, lack of intensity, and general lackluster play from a 10m+ a season player he doesn't even deserve consideration as anything imo. Fuck R-Gay

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

Does it matter? Aside from Leonard/Bowen who really cares. Jefferson was shit. He may not have literally been as shitty as those guys but for the expectations he brought, his laziness, lack of intensity, and general lackluster play from a 10m+ a season player he doesn't even deserve consideration as anything imo. Fuck R-Gay

yes it matters, I'm conducting a study..

[Uriel]

This is actually a pretty subtle attempt at trolling, compared with more egregious threads in days past. :tu

[spursparker9]

At least RJ trolled Pop hard enough to make Pop says that Pop ought to be fired if they didn't win it all.

[elemento]

Statistically he wasn't that bad for a 4th option. Chip was able to fix his 3p shot and he was decent defensively (overrated but not bad). He is the typical case that you have to actually watch the game to see why he did not fit.

He simply wasn't a Spurs material player. He lacked the "fire" to play and win with guys like Timmy/Manu/Parker. It was like that Jefferson was there to get a paycheck and go home. His game shrank big time in the playoffs and he simply didn't care .

Bowen had that fire and SA was only able to find another player with that fire when they drafted Kawhi. Jefferson is a good guy and he was never a locker-room problem, but I hope to never see him again in a Spurs jersey.


.

[spursparker9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkKlygp8jzs



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XjDjpHpwJY



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4jdUFiyn8

[FromWayDowntown]

Does it matter? Aside from Leonard/Bowen who really cares.

Sean Elliott, Larry Kenon, and Mike Mitchell (RIP) are all just shaking their heads.

And Dominique Wilkins.

[spursparker9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMNtnKXYZNY

[Dex]

Thomas Jefferson was an American Founding Father, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence and the third President of the United States.

[FromWayDowntown]

Did someone ask about George Jefferson?

http://www.muddyingthewaters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ctm_jeffersons_725_480x360.jpg

[Joseph Kony]

Sean Elliott, Larry Kenon, and Mike Mitchell (RIP) are all just shaking their heads.

And Dominique Wilkins.

How did I forget Sean :bang

I'm not gonna pretend I'm old enough to remember Kenon and Mitchell. Nique was also old when he was here, def not the human highlight reel like he was in ATL.

[Joseph Kony]

I refuse to put RJ on any sort of top list of anything because I really want to forget he even played here, his tenure was a disaster that marked the dark period of the Duncan era.

Of players I've been old enough to watch:

1. Kawhi
2. Sean
3. Bruce
4. Old Manu playing SF
5. Hed:lol

[MolaMola790]

Does it matter? Aside from Leonard/Bowen who really cares. Jefferson was shit. He may not have literally been as shitty as those guys but for the expectations he brought, his laziness, lack of intensity, and general lackluster play from a 10m+ a season player he doesn't even deserve consideration as anything imo. Fuck R-Gay

what about Sean Elliott?

[MolaMola790]

RJ was nowhere near as bad as people here make him out to be.....

[baseline bum]

RJ was nowhere near as bad as people here make him out to be.....

Trading Jefferson to Golden State was the ultimate addition by subtraction move. Fuck Jefferson, amazing to be worse than 36 year-old Finley defensively.

[Bill_Brasky]

Our defense was in the worst shape of the Duncan era when he was here starting. Talk about a horrendous defender.

[team-work]

He might make the top-ten list. But he also ranked high (maybe top 3) in the worst "efficiency-price ratio" list.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I refuse to put RJ on any sort of top list of anything because I really want to forget he even played here, his tenure was a disaster that marked the dark period of the Duncan era.

Of players I've been old enough to watch:

1. Kawhi
2. Sean
3. Bruce
4. Old Manu playing SF
5. Hed:lol

Mike Mitchell and Larry Kenon (I ran into him a few years ago selling cars at North Park Ford on San Pedro) would have to be 4 and 5. Those guys could ball.

1. Bruce Bowen--longevity, 1st and 2nd team all-defense, 3 rings
2. Sean ******--longevity, all star appearances, winning a championship with a kidney transplant
3. Kawhi--will probably be #1 when all is said and done
4. Mike Mitchell--so smooth, great jumper
5. Larry Kenon--was close to 20/10 every year

[timtonymanu]

I still remember that one time RJ was wide open at the 3 point line for a good 3 seconds but didn't know what to do with the ball.

His best contribution to the Spurs was missing two free throws when he was with the Warriors.

[baseline bum]

I'd rank Dick #14 on the Spurs all-time starting SF list

TIER 1 - GREAT
1. Bruce Bowen
2. Kawhi Leonard

TIER 2 - GOOD
3. Sean Elliott
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell

TIER 3 - ADEQUATE
6. Micheal Finley
7. Gene Banks
8. Walter Berry

TIER 4 - SO-SO
9. Dale Ellis
10. Danny Ferry
11. Dominique Wilkins

TIER 5 - EPIC FAIL
12. Hedo Turkoglu
13. Jerome Kersey
14. Richard Jefferson
15. Chucky Brown
16. Alfrederick Hughes

[buttsR4rebounding]

I'd rank Dick #14 on the Spurs all-time starting SF list

TIER 1 - GREAT
1. Bruce Bowen
2. Kawhi Leonard

TIER 2 - GOOD
3. Sean Elliott
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell

TIER 3 - ADEQUATE
6. Micheal Finley
7. Gene Banks
8. Walter Berry

TIER 4 - SO-SO
9. Dale Ellis
10. Danny Ferry
11. Dominique Wilkins

TIER 5 - EPIC FAIL
12. Hedo Turkoglu
13. Jerome Kersey
14. Richard Jefferson
15. Chucky Brown
16. Alfrederick Hughes

Excellent list. Some notables you left off and it may be the blurring of SG and SF: Steven Jackson, Chuck Person, Alvin Robertson (is listed as S/F and would obviously be #4 on the list if considered a SF),Willie Anderson, James Anderson, David Wingate, Monte Williams, Rick Barry (played a lot of 3) and if you want to consider the organization and include Chaparrals you would have to include Cliff Hagen (5 time NBA AS and played in the first ABA all star game).

So if I may:

1. Bruce Bowen
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Sean Elliott
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell
Willie Anderson
Steven Jackson
6. Micheal Finley
7. Gene Banks
Chuck Person
8. Walter Berry
9. Dale Ellis
10. Danny Ferry
11. Dominique Wilkins
12. Jerome Kersey
David Wingate
13. Richard Jefferson
14. Chucky Brown
15. Alfrederick Hughes

[baseline bum]

Excellent list. Some notables you left off and it may be the blurring of SG and SF: Steven Jackson, Chuck Person, Alvin Robertson (is listed as S/F and would obviously be #4 on the list if considered a SF),Willie Anderson, James Anderson, David Wingate, Monte Williams, Rick Barry (played a lot of 3) and if you want to consider the organization and include Chaparrals you would have to include Cliff Hagen (5 time NBA AS and played in the first ABA all star game).

So if I may:

1. Bruce Bowen
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Sean Elliott
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell
Willie Anderson
Steven Jackson
6. Micheal Finley
7. Gene Banks
Chuck Person
8. Walter Berry
9. Dale Ellis
10. Danny Ferry
11. Dominique Wilkins
12. Jerome Kersey
David Wingate
13. Richard Jefferson
14. Chucky Brown
15. Alfrederick Hughes

Jack was the starting two here replacing Smith, so that's why I left him off. Willie played mostly two guard, except that first Larry Brown season when Alvin was there. I can never remember Alvin playing the 3.

[bigfan]

Jefferson was overpaid but nowhere near as bad as some above say. I would say he was at least one of the top ten we've had at that position. My top 5:
Elliott
Bowen
Mitchell
Leonard (sure to move up over the next year or two)
Banks

[Joseph Kony]

Kawhi is the default #1 imo as he is the only one with a FMVP

[Joseph Kony]

Also forgot about Jackson, although he didn't play too much here and his best season was as a SG.

[baseline bum]

Jefferson was overpaid but nowhere near as bad as some above say. I would say he was at least one of the top ten we've had at that position. My top 5:
Elliott
Bowen
Mitchell
Leonard (sure to move up over the next year or two)
Banks

So is he over Kenon, Finley, Ellis, Wilkins, Turkoglu, Berry? Pick two.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Kenon was a 3 time all-star. Twice in the NBA. He was part of the core that was considered strong enough to merge. IMO he has to be on the Top 5 list. I loved Mitchell, but I can't put him over Kenon. Banks played at a time I lived elsewhere so I didn't see him much in person. I don't remember his game. I believe the time a player spent with the organization means something as well. Turkolu was here one year. If a guy is here one year only he better have done more than Turkalu did. Heck Glen Robinson was here for a championship run. I don't think he ever unpacked his bags, but he played the 3.

[Dex]

Wait, are you guys talking about the Starship?

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf4jdUFiyn8

wow..I love that vid, did they won the game?

[Tuddy]

I don't know how much you can blame the FO for re-signing him. He fell of a cliff faster than any player in NBA history without injuries

[Gagnrath]

I don't know how much you can blame the FO for re-signing him. He fell of a cliff faster than any player in NBA history without injuries
Not sure on that unless you count injuries to the head look at how fast Marburry and Iverson fell.

[mudyez]

Below Kyle Anderson!

[32fastest]

OP is Richard Jefferson tbh

[mkurts]

Overhyped - overrated - overpaid loser ranks last

[Chinook]

wow..I love that vid, did they won the game?

Yes.

[Chinook]

Bowen is pretty overrated on this board. Kawhi is already better than Bruce ever was. Jefferson wasn't a bad player, but the Spurs weren't the same team they are now when they had him. They still depended on their Big Three so much that they put too much hope into Jefferson being part of a Big Four. Had the team not traded him for Jackson, I think they would have still gone on their run, provided Pop appropriately benched him for Kawhi.

Trading for him was a mistake, though. They should have just moved Oberto for Johnson like Milwaukee did and thrown the MLE at Tony Allen instead of McDyess.

[Beaverfuzz]

Third from the bottom.

[The Reckoning]

last

[z0sa]

Somewhere in the vicinity of "Spurs FO rules" and "we traded BB for who?"

[pjjrfan]

Sean Elliott, Larry Kenon, and Mike Mitchell (RIP) are all just shaking their heads.

And Dominique Wilkins.
Amen!!!!!

[spurraider21]

Wait, are you guys talking about the Starship?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXmrMMYpQL4

[Das Texan]

I'd rank Dick #14 on the Spurs all-time starting SF list

TIER 1 - GREAT
1. Bruce Bowen
2. Kawhi Leonard

TIER 2 - GOOD
3. Sean Elliott
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell

TIER 3 - ADEQUATE
6. Micheal Finley
7. Gene Banks
8. Walter Berry

TIER 4 - SO-SO
9. Dale Ellis
10. Danny Ferry
11. Dominique Wilkins

TIER 5 - EPIC FAIL
12. Hedo Turkoglu
13. Jerome Kersey
14. Richard Jefferson
15. Chucky Brown
16. Alfrederick Hughes



Hughes is way too high on that list.

:lol

[scanry]

I'd rank Dick #14 on the Spurs all-time starting SF list

TIER 1 - GREAT
1. Bruce Bowen
2. Kawhi Leonard

TIER 2 - GOOD
3. Sean Elliott
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell

TIER 3 - ADEQUATE
6. Micheal Finley
7. Gene Banks
8. Walter Berry

TIER 4 - SO-SO
9. Dale Ellis
10. Danny Ferry
11. Dominique Wilkins

TIER 5 - EPIC FAIL
12. Hedo Turkoglu
13. Jerome Kersey
14. Richard Jefferson
15. Chucky Brown
16. Alfrederick Hughes

Aren't you forgetting Mario Ellie? That Nig was the vocal leader the Spurs lacked in the 90's. He's still one of my favorite Spurs. He was more of a SF than SG tbh. ****** became our SG once we acquired Ellie in 97.

[ajh18]

Would include Chuck "The Rifleman" Person on that list. Also, I'm not sure I can rank Kawhi ahead of prime Elliott yet, though the potential is definitely there.

[baseline bum]

Aren't you forgetting Mario Ellie? That Nig was the vocal leader the Spurs lacked in the 90's. He's still one of my favorite Spurs. He was more of a SF than SG tbh. ****** became our SG once we acquired Ellie in 97.

???

Elie strictly played the two in 1999 and the Spurs landed him about two weeks before the 1999 season. The SF rotation in 1999 was Elliott/Kersey, and occasional minutes for Jaren Jackson at the three when Elie and Jackson were on the floor together. He played some spot minutes at SF in 2000 between Elliott's retirement and return, but Chucky Brown and Jerome Kersey were the starting SFs.

[baseline bum]

Would include Chuck "The Rifleman" Person on that list. Also, I'm not sure I can rank Kawhi ahead of prime Elliott yet, though the potential is definitely there.

I didn't put Person because although he's one of my favorite Spurs ever, he was a bench guy. That was the one thing I felt bad about in 99, was Person not being there to get a ring too.

I guess I should also remove Hughes since he wasn't a starter (I could swear he was early on, but looking up the stats says no) and Turkoglu since he was the starting SG in 04.

[hyhy]

What about Paul George?

[JTSD]

IMHO, Kawhi is already number one and I am the biggest Sean supporter around. Leonard has the first step and shooting touch Ninja has, but he plays defense like Bowen, and is a better rebounder and creates more steals than either of them.

1. Kawhi Leonard
2. Sean Elliott
3. Bruce Bowen
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell
6. Dale Ellis
7. Dominique Wilkins (best player his only season on team with hurt DRob.)
8. Willie Anderson
9. Richard Jefferson
10. Hedo Turkoglu

To answer your question, Jefferson is ranked below Anderson just above Turkoglu in ninth. Sure wish I knew more about Rich Jones and Cincinnatus Powell, though. :wink

[baseline bum]

IMHO, Kawhi is already number one and I am the biggest Sean supporter around. Leonard has the first step and shooting touch Ninja has, but he plays defense like Bowen, and is a better rebounder and creates more steals than either of them.

1. Kawhi Leonard
2. Sean Elliott
3. Bruce Bowen
4. Larry Kenon
5. Mike Mitchell
6. Dale Ellis
7. Dominique Wilkins (best player his only season on team with hurt DRob.)
8. Willie Anderson
9. Richard Jefferson
10. Hedo Turkoglu

To answer your question, Jefferson is ranked below Anderson just above Turkoglu in ninth. Sure wish I knew more about Rich Jones and Cincinnatus Powell, though. :wink

Leonard isn't as good as Bowen defensively, come on. And no way I'd take Jefferson over Banks, Berry, Finley, or even Ferry. Banks and Berry were pretty efficient scorers, Finley while being misused by Pop still hit some huge shots in the playoffs, Ferry was a better shooter who played pretty well in the 01 playoffs in the first two rounds against Minnesota and Dallas, not to mention a season saving performance in Game 2 of the 03 playoffs vs Phoenix when Robinson was hurt and Willis suspended. What is Jefferson? A guy who can hit threes in November?

[JTSD]

Leonard isn't as good as Bowen defensively, come on. And no way I'd take Jefferson over Banks, Berry, Finley, or even Ferry. Banks and Berry were pretty efficient scorers, Finley while being misused by Pop still hit some huge shots in the playoffs, Ferry was a better shooter who played pretty well in the 01 playoffs in the first two rounds against Minnesota and Dallas, not to mention a season saving performance in Game 2 of the 03 playoffs vs Phoenix when Robinson was hurt and Willis suspended. What is Jefferson? A guy who can hit threes in November?

Cannot comment on Banks or Berry although Walter Berry was a power forward, no? Didn't see or hear of these guys doing anything for San Antonio. As for Finley, he was more a backup shooting guard than small forward. Also, I forgot to mention Derek Anderson besides Willie Anderson. I would rank Derek above Willie because he played well in 01 for SA, but just did not see eye to eye on his value with RC. Where is Derek now? (Rhetorical).
Danny Ferry was just limited. Yes, Danny had the chutzpah to take big shots, but physically he was just outquicked in every series loss against the lakers... Still, there is some merit in that Ferry still helped the team against every other team not yellow and purple, so I'll make him my new #10.
My revise is as follows:
8. Derek Anderson
9. Willie Anderson
10. Danny Ferry
11. Richard Jefferson
12. Glenn Robinson, had to add him after watching 05 video. Dude helped Spurs win a title playing limited minutes.
13. Hedo Turkoglu

As for defense, Kawhi in three years has already been in the Bowen role since his rookie year albeit in fewer minutes because of Pop, and only gets better against the best perimeter players year after year. IMHO, Leonard is better. He is better than Elliott too and I'm the biggest Ninja backer around... I stand by my comments.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-21/Spurs-coach-Rookie-Kawhi-Leonard-more-gifted-than-Bruce-Bowen/54460516/1

Spurs coach: Rookie Leonard 'more gifted' than Bowen

"Kawhi guards the toughest perimeter player on the other team. He's got great length. A great body. Has an inclination to do it. He enjoys the role. He's more gifted than Bruce, skillwise," Popovich said.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/09/11/summer-dreaming-first-time-all-stars/

"Kawhi Leonard, Spurs – Go figure. He’s got the Bill Russell Trophy for being named MVP of the NBA Finals sitting on his mantle, yet Leonard has not yet been named to an All-Star team in three years in the league. Of course, a big part of that is the cap that coach Gregg Popovich puts on the minutes of all of the Spurs. That doesn’t allow for those eye-popping stats that get the attention of voters. But you’d think the coaches would recognize all the things he does at both ends of the floor and add him as a reserve."

[MANUNG-Ginobili]

why this thread suddenly became Bowen vs Leonard debate? I was asking about RJ..

[baseline bum]

Cannot comment on Banks or Berry although Walter Berry was a power forward, no? Didn't see or hear of these guys doing anything for San Antonio. As for Finley, he was more a backup shooting guard than small forward.

Nah, Berry was the starting SF. David Greenwood was the Spurs starting PF at the time. Finley was the starting SF in the Roger Mason era. Only time I can ever recall DA playing as starting SF was the last two games of the 01 WCF when he came back from injury and Pop didn't want to pull Daniels' offense.

[dunkman]

RJ was only a serviceable player, paid as all-star. Would rank Kawhi, Bowen, past prime ****** and 'Nique ahead of him.

[Das Texan]

Nah, Berry was the starting SF. David Greenwood was the Spurs starting PF at the time. Finley was the starting SF in the Roger Mason era. Only time I can ever recall DA playing as starting SF was the last two games of the 01 WCF when he came back from injury and Pop didn't want to pull Daniels' offense.


David Greenwood, name I havent heard in years!

[baseline bum]

David Greenwood, name I havent heard in years!

I was glad to see Greenwood ring in Detroit since the Spurs had fallen apart by that time once Alvin showed he was no Iceman and Wes Matthews and Johnny Dawkins couldn't replace Johnny Moore.

[MI21]

Boris Diaw, Manu Ginobili and Danny Green are also better SF's than Dick.

When San Antonio started Duncan, Robinson and Perdue against Indiana in 98, Duncan was a better a SF also.

[Diego20]

Money he earned:

2001-02New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2002.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html) $1,379,400
2002-03New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2003.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html) $1,482,840
2003-04New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2004.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2004.html) $1,586,280
2004-05New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2005.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html) $2,266,794
2005-06New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2006.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html) $10,200,000
2006-07New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2007.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2007.html) $11,200,000
2007-08New Jersey Nets (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NJN/2008.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html) $12,200,000
2008-09Milwaukee Bucks (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2009.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html) $13,200,000
2009-10San Antonio Spurs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2010.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html) $14,200,000 <---- More than Manu and Tony.
2010-11San Antonio Spurs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2011.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html) $8,400,000
2011-12San Antonio Spurs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2012.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html) $9,282,000
2012-13Golden State Warriors (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2013.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html) $10,164,000 (paid to make 3 points per game). <--- More than Manu.
2013-14Utah Jazz (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2014.html)NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014.html) $11,046,000 <---- More than Manu and TD.
Career $106,607,314

the fuck? Manu earned $101,225,615 and RJ $106,607,314 :lol

[Agloco]

He sucks during his stay with the Spurs but I have him in my top 10.

1. Gervin
2. Bowen
3. Sugar K
4 - 10. ??? (Willis, Turkoglu, Finley, RJ?)

Finley and Gervin are not even true SFs

what do you think guys?

Where is Elliott?

[JTSD]

why this thread suddenly became Bowen vs Leonard debate? I was asking about RJ..
I ranked RJ at 11. Believe me... I am a fan of the Univ of Arizona basketball program, responsible for Elliott, Kerr, and RJ for the Spurs organization.. I wanted him to do well and on paper when he first joined the Spurs, it looked like a good fit. It was hard to realize for everyone that he was mostly a square peg in a round hole... Good luck to RJ, but his time in SA didn't bring SA very much luck at all...

[Capt Bringdown]

RJ should be ranked below one of Kevin Restani's late 1970's bowel movements.

[TheGreatYacht]

569686596167081986

[Amarelooms]

^. Nasty son

[szkorhetz]

569686596167081986
That Hornets bench. :lmao

[Sean Cagney]

569686596167081986
First dunk like that in years, when he actually tries he can play with some fire! Also it did not count either, got waved off I believe so........... Offensive foul.
That Hornets bench. :lmao

Yeah man that shit had my dying.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XjDjpHpwJY

Despite all the hates, this is a top 10 dunk by a Spur