Speaking Out

[Nbadan]

http://images.fotop.net/albums/Sean84106/Protest/DSCF2565.jpg


Anyone who was worried that Monday's Pioneer Park anti-war protest would embarrass either the visiting Veterans of Foreign Wars or their special guest, President Bush, can relax. For all the president was able to see or hear of the contrarian event, the protest may as well have been on Mars.

http://images.fotop.net/albums/Sean84106/Protest/DSCF2538.jpg

The only worrisome aspect of the well-attended protest, which doubtless drew both more supporters and more ire once it became known that Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson was among its backers, was the suggestion heard here and there that there is something wrong with protesting a president, a war or a president's policy toward a war.

There isn't. And, as long as this is the kind of nation that was worth the sacrifice of VFW members, there won't be.

http://images.fotop.net/albums/Sean84106/Protest/DSCF2542.jpg

Patriotism does not mean blind loyalty to whoever happens to be in power at the moment. Support for the troops does not mean uncritical support for the mission they have been given. Not in a democracy.

Patriotism means people taking their responsibility as citizens seriously, looking at the facts, searching their hearts and deciding what course their nation should follow. Those who thoughtfully support the president and his policies, and say so, are being no more or less patriotic than those who oppose him, and say so.

Support for the troops means taking responsibility for what is happening to them by insisting that they receive the best leadership, the best equipment and weaponry, the best medical care and, perhaps, a rapid end to a war that, in many patriotic minds, was ill-conceived and now risks becoming a prolonged and fruitless death trap.

The need for this true form of patriotism is not less important in time of war. It is more important.

Because the actual bleeding and dying is being done by a small fraction of the population, and because the rest of us are not being asked to sacrifice in any way, too many of us may be lulled into a sense that the war doesn't matter to us.

But a war fought in our name, paid for by our taxes (or, more precisely these days, our national debt), endangering the lives of our fellow citizens, if not our near and dear, is the very thing that should move Americans away from apathy and toward some level of involvement.

Mayor Anderson was correct to speak out for the right as he sees it. Citizenship in a free society does not just allow it. It demands it.

Salt Lake City Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2964573)

Amen Brother, Amen.

:hat

[Ocotillo]

Here is the next target for the right wing smear machine:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/bsprotect.jpg


Bill Moyer, 73, wears a "Bullshit Protector" flap over his ear while President George W. Bush addresses the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

link (http://www.dailykos.com/)

[whottt]

"The GRU and KGB helped fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad... What will be a great surprise to the American people is that GRU and KGB had a larger budget for antiwar propaganda in the United States than it did for economic and military support to the Vietnamese." - Russian defector Staanislov Lunev in 'Through the Eyes of the Enemy'(page 78).






The term "useful idiots" has been attributed to Lenin, as a description of those mindless people in the Western democracies who would always find ways to excuse whatever the Soviet Union did.





Quote Usama Bin Laden:

I ask the American people to force their government to give up anti-Muslim policies. The American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam. They must do the same today.


Go libs go....

[Ocotillo]

We will prevail.

[whottt]

Helpful links for you fine folks:

Communist party of America (http://www.cpusa.org/article/archive/11/)



Why YOU Should join the Communist Party.

The Communist Party USA is an organization of activists in labor and all the people's movements with three main political aims:

Defeating the right-wing agenda of the Bush Administration.

Winning a wide-ranging program of reforms that put the well being of the people before private profits.

Eventually replacing big business with labor and its allies as the dominant power so as to insure that the rights, economic security and expanding needs of the people become the overriding concern of society.

The purpose of this pamphlet is to explain these goals and ask you to join us in working to achieve them.


Antiwar argument from the Socialist Party of America:

http://sp-usa.org/platform/terrorism.html

SOCIALIST PARTY PLATFORM

"War On Terrorism"


The Socialist Party condemns the so-called War on Terrorism as a crime against humanity. The U.S. Government has been using
the fear and grief of September 11 to enact the right wing political agenda of September 10.

1- We condemn the crusade (George W. Bush's word) against Islam as racist.
2- We call for the immediate repeal of the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts and the Anti-Terrorism & Death Penalty Act.
3- We oppose the Homeland Security department with its sweeping police powers.
4- We demand the exclusion of the military from domestic law enforcement.
5- The United Nations Charter permits member nations to defend themselves only if attacked. The U.S. government policy of attacking first, on the grounds that the target nation is (in Washington 's sole opinion) a threat, is plainly criminal, and we condemn it.

[Ocotillo]

Isn't there a John Birch Society meeting for you to attend somewhere?

[whottt]

Just remember...the people most easily corrupted by money are those that don't have it...hence the failure of communism time and time again.

[bigzak25]

so that's what a group of fuckin idiots looks like.


'send jenna'


wow, that is some fucking brilliant commentary right there...

where's the guy jumping around in a red white and blue bodybag? :pctoss

[Spurminator]

I like the backwards "N" on the "Peace Now" sign.

[samikeyp]

Patriotism does not mean blind loyalty to whoever happens to be in power at the moment. Support for the troops does not mean uncritical support for the mission they have been given. Not in a democracy.

Actually...I have no problem with this part. Do I like that fact that American troops are in harm's way? No but as long as they are, they have my support. I also think that if you disagree with the government you should speak up. The constitution provides you avenues to do this.

[bigzak25]

Patriotism does not mean blind loyalty to whoever happens to be in power at the moment. Support for the troops does not mean uncritical support for the mission they have been given. Not in a democracy.


fuck the president. this is not about bush. this is about our soldiers being in the shit and we owe it to them as AMERICANS to root for success of the mission. All of them are HEROES and some of them are DYING for us. when will these zombies snap the FUCK out of it???? WHEN?

[exstatic]

All of them are HEROES and some of them are DYING for us.

Actually, this is one of my sore points. They are dying for a bunch of people who DGAF. I would much rather we leave, and let them get back to their business of the last millenia or so: killing each other. This, to me, is the preferrable path. Call me crazy. Better them than us.

when will these zombies snap the FUCK out of it???? WHEN?

When will you snap out of it, and stop drinking the Bush koolaid that success is just around the corner if we stay the course? These people are violent and hateful, and all of Bush's beauty pageant naievete about why can we all just get along isn't going to change that. Yes, I think every life lost over there has been wasted, and any more lost will be wasted. On the other hand, Bush seems to be more than willing to flush more lives down the crapper rather than admit that this was a mistake of monumental proportions. Even Reagan was smarter after Lebanon. I'm sure he sat down with his advisors and said something like "You know, these people just don't get it, and I'll be damned if they'll take another US serviceman's life. We're outta there." Did we lose face withdrawing after that Marine Barracks bombing? How about a more recent event, the missiles fired at the ships in Jordan? Shouldn't we have stayed there, and "Showed 'em"?

Folks, this is about pride, nothing more. Someone else will be left to clean up the mess in 3+ years, because it will still be going full tilt. Bank on that.

[Ocotillo]

Zak you're a pretty passionate guy.

Tell you what, tonight before bed say three "Ditto Rush" and read a chapter for Ann Coulter's "Treason", get a good night's sleep and then in the morning go to your local recruiting office and sign up to help keep "freedom on the march"

[Trainwreck2100]

I'm really tired of the Send Jenna crap, how could he possibly send one that isn't in any form of armed service?

[boutons]

"I'm really tired of the Send Jenna crap"

... hit the point very painfully, huh?

"how could he possibly send one that isn't in any form of armed service?"

ah, you have, in you laser-like brilliance, illuminated a highly technical reason why shrub can't sent his bimbos to Iraq. They aren't fucking enlisted in the military. Briliant, absolutely brilliant, as if enlisting warm body was an impossible hurdle.

The whole point is why isn't shrub and other rich Repugs pushing their kids to enlist, fight, and die in a purely Repug war? Because they won't put their own blood on the line. That's left to anybody near the bottom of the socio-economic shit pile.

[Clandestino]

"I'm really tired of the Send Jenna crap"

... hit the point very painfully, huh?

"how could he possibly send one that isn't in any form of armed service?"

ah, you have, in you laser-like brilliance, illuminated a highly technical reason why shrub can't sent his bimbos to Iraq. They aren't fucking enlisted in the military. Briliant, absolutely brilliant, as if enlisting warm body was an impossible hurdle.

The whole point is why isn't shrub and other rich Repugs pushing their kids to enlist, fight, and die in a purely Repug war? Because they won't put their own blood on the line. That's left to anybody near the bottom of the socio-economic shit pile.

do you have kids? do you think you will honestly be able to force them to do things they don't want to after they turn 18? especially picking a career for them. grow the fuck up.

[Spurminator]

Boutons, it's become painfully obvious that you are not only the most hateful person on this forum, but also the dumbest.

Have you ever had an 18 year old "kid"? Have you been one yet? Why can't you get it through your thick fucking skull that parents, even those filthy rich and evil Republican ones (since those are the only people who vote Republican, certainly not your lower class white religious families in rural areas and small towns) cannot enlist their sons and daughters into the armed forces?

I know you WANT to see these people lose family members to the war you hate so much. I know you feel it is Natural Selection as you so eloquently put it (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=446365&postcount=402) in one of the most offensive diatribes I've ever seen in this forum.

But figure it out. Pull your head out of your ass, spit the shit out of your mouth, take a deep breath, and get over the fact that (beyond a Draft), your mortal enemies on the Right will never be "forced" to enlist and die so you can dance on their Repug-votin graves.

Asshole.

[Clandestino]

my mother flipped out when i signed up for the military, but she couldn't do anything about it.

[boutons2]

"cannot enlist their sons and daughters into the armed forces?"

OF COURSE, I know shrub can't sign up his bimbos. You people are standing on technicalities, playing cheapshot gotcha shit games.

But why, if they and rummy's/rice's/powell's/wolfy's/dickhead's/perl's familiies really believe their parents' war is as important as advertized, why aren't their kids over there fighting and dying in their parents' war? Is there even one administration child fighting over there? The admin people are in their late 40 to early 60s, there must be some fightin-age kids in there willing to die for their parents bullshit war, no?

[boutons]

Who TF is "boutons2" ? That's my post, but why the "2"?

hey, red-staters, 2 boutons are much better than 1 !

[mookie2001]

clans a rebel!

[Spurminator]

"cannot enlist their sons and daughters into the armed forces?"

OF COURSE, I know shrub can't sign up his bimbos. You people are standing on technicalities, playing cheapshot gotcha shit games.

But why, if they and rummy's/rice's/powell's/wolfy's/dickhead's/perl's familiies really believe their parents' war is as important as advertized, why aren't their kids over there fighting and dying in their parents' war? Is there even one administration child fighting over there? The admin people are in their late 40 to early 60s, there must be some fightin-age kids in there willing to die for their parents bullshit war, no?

Well, hell, if you believe in stopping crime, why don't you join the police department?

If you believe in stem cell research, why don't you become a scientist and study it?

If you believe in God, why don't you become a preacher?

If you don't believe in welfare, why don't you join a food bank?

Bumper Sticker Logic. It sounds good in blogs and on protest signs, but it's completely incompatable with the reality we live in.


Besides, how do you know all of their kids are on board? If they're old enough to enlist, they're also old enough to think for themselves. Maybe they don't agree with the war, or maybe they don't care either way. That doesn't somehow negate the policy. Unless of course you want it to...

You know what would be funny? What if Jenna Bush suddenly became an outspoken critic of the War in Iraq? Wouldn't it be funny to watch her metamorphasis from anti-Bush crowd punch line to Hero of Dissent? I would pay to see that happen, I hope she does it.


People don't join the Military because they don't have to. Same reasons they don't join the police force, the school board, or the U.S. Postal Service. Welcome to the concept of voluntary service. Don't like it? Write your congressman and tell him to fight for a Draft.

[whottt]

Now that is what you call.........

Owned!

[gtownspur]

boutons is now consulting Michael Moores miraculous silhoutte on a pumpernickel loaf for advice on how to counter a well typed post. Will he pull something out of the hat. We dont know. .. But stay tuned for another episode of "Your are the Weakest Twink"

[Murphy]

The Military agrees with Bush, over 70% voted for him

[Nbadan]

http://www.freep.com/voices/edit_art/082505_mt.jpg

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/05/27/98/image_1798275.gif

http://www.cagle.com/working/050824/plante.gif

http://www.milbrathdraws.com/archives/2005/08/25.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

Besides, how do you know all of their kids are on board? If they're old enough to enlist, they're also old enough to think for themselves. Maybe they don't agree with the war, or maybe they don't care either way. That doesn't somehow negate the policy. Unless of course you want it to...

Were that true, the Administration's puppets would have to label them anti-American and unpatriotic, right?

or would they get a pass because their Daddy is President?

[Spurminator]

No, they would just hide their opinions the way they hide the Cheneys' opinions on gay marriage.

[Duff McCartney]

Just remember...the people most easily corrupted by money are those that don't have it...hence the failure of communism time and time again.

Communism fails because people by their inherit nature are greedy bastards. They'll never be content being just part of the crowd.

[Duff McCartney]

Personally, I think if you support the war, then get eurass to the nearest recruiting station and go fight.

If you don't support the war then stay here and protest.

[scott]

Just don't send Barbara... she's too hot for war.

[Spurminator]

Personally, I think if you support the war, then get eurass to the nearest recruiting station and go fight.

If you don't support the war then stay here and protest.


So who works?

[FromWayDowntown]

Personally, I think if you support the war, then get eurass to the nearest recruiting station and go fight.

If you don't support the war then stay here and protest.

so much for ambivalence.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol