Durant had a phenomenal year, even by MVP standards

[ambchang]

Durant hasn't been all that popular on these boards, with all the beta talk and the pimple face smack, but when you really look at what he did last year, it was phenomenal. Not only as compared to 13-14 players (which is pretty obvious because he won the MVP), but from a historical sense.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mvp.html

While different years have different rules, pace and oppositions, I think it's good to start off by looking at the basic statistics:
- Of all the MVP seasons, Durant's ranked 6th of all time. The only MVP player season that had a higher scoring average but was clearly worse than Durant's season was McAdoo's 74-75 season. That period was pretty much the worst in NBA history with the ABA, drugs and selfish play.
- He ranked low in rebounds, but it's only because the MVP was dominated by big guys, especially in the old days. The only non big men with higher rebounding numbers were Bird, Big O, Dr J, Lebron and Magic.
- For a forward, he ranked comparatively high in assists. Of course, it's also due to the fact that big men dominated the list, but the only non PG to top him was Wilt, Lebron, Bird and Jordan.
- He had one of the only 5 seasons where an MVP logged 30+/5+/5+ (3 of the others belongs to Jordan, 1 to Big O).

From an advanced stat perspective:
- He ranked 12 all time in WS, and 10th in WS/48
- Only Jabbar, Jordan and Lebron had higher WS/48 in MVP seasons.

On an unrelated note, of all the multiple MVP winners, I will rank them as follows:
1 - Jordan
2 - Kareem
3 - Wilt
4 - Duncan
5 - Magic
6 - Bird
7 - Wilt
8 - Russell
9 - Moses
10 - Pettit
11 - Pedo
12 - Nash

[lefty]

Still not impressed

Too many FT's for a jump shooter, scoring numbers inflated by the refs

Not the most versatile player either

[Killakobe81]

Over reliance on those stats kill that for me ... your rankings are OK from a numbers perspective but an MVP is more than imho.

But IDGAF to argue with you on this one AMb, the MVP has been a shitty award since the late 90's tbh ... they get it right about 50% of the time and only started to right the ship in the Lebron era.

[Clipper Nation]

Correction: "The refs had a phenomenal year, even by MVP standards"

[ambchang]

I know the refs angle will come up, but let's be real, almost all MVPs get referential treatment.

It is almost comical how many FTs Durant got compared to the number of jumpshots he took, but he still nailed the jumpshots at a spectacular rate, especially for a guy who's almost 7' tall.

His impact on the team was also undeniable. They team had horrible coaching, no interior offense, missed Westbrook for chunks of the season, no bench, but they still managed to finish with a great record, and posed the biggest challenge to the eventual champions in the playoffs (Thunder > Mavs). We have had way worse MVP seasons, those Nash onesa and Rose comes to mind.

Only a handful of MVP seasons were undeniably better than Durant's. Jordans', Bird's 86, and a couple of Jabbar's. Even Shaq's 00 and Duncan's 03 are "only" in the same level of Durant's based on impact alone

[Killakobe81]

I know the refs angle will come up, but let's be real, almost all MVPs get referential treatment.

It is almost comical how many FTs Durant got compared to the number of jumpshots he took, but he still nailed the jumpshots at a spectacular rate, especially for a guy who's almost 7' tall.

His impact on the team was also undeniable. They team had horrible coaching, no interior offense, missed Westbrook for chunks of the season, no bench, but they still managed to finish with a great record, and posed the biggest challenge to the eventual champions in the playoffs (Thunder > Mavs). We have had way worse MVP seasons, those Nash onesa and Rose comes to mind.

Only a handful of MVP seasons were undeniably better than Durant's. Jordans', Bird's 86, and a couple of Jabbar's. Even Shaq's 00 and Duncan's 03 are "only" in the same level of Durant's based on impact alone

Exactly.

[Clipper Nation]

I know the refs angle will come up, but let's be real, almost all MVPs get referential treatment.
LeBron didn't, Duncan didn't....

[resistanze]

On an unrelated note, of all the multiple MVP winners, I will rank them as follows:
1 - Jordan
2 - Kareem
3 - Wilt
4 - Duncan
5 - Magic
6 - Bird
7 - Wilt
8 - Russell
9 - Moses
10 - Pettit
11 - Pedo
12 - Nash

LeBron?

[JamStone]

LeBron didn't, Duncan didn't....

Free throws aren't the only way a player can get preferential treatment by the refs.

LeBron doesn't get called for fouls when he hacks. He also never gets called for travel (though you can argue many NBA players don't). Didn't LeBron recently have a long stretch of games where he didn't commit a foul? It was something pretty ridiculous.

In the same vein, Duncan got similar preferential treatment at the defensive end of the court. In his career, Tim Duncan has never had a season where he averaged 3 fouls per 36 minutes... never. Pretty surprising for a shot blocker. For reference and comparison, Hakeem never had a season where he didn't average at least 3 fouls per 36 minutes. Argue all you want that Duncan was just smarter about not taking fouls, but it's just surprising that Duncan never did it even one season.

There are other ways to get preferential treatment by the refs than getting a huge number of free throws like Durant and Kobe got. Patrick Ewing almost never getting called for a travel when he would do that 3-4 step runner in the lane. Allen Iverson never getting called for a carry even though that's all he did when he dribbled. Jordan not getting called for an offensive foul when he pushed off a defender to create space for a jumper. Those aren't missed calls that should lead to free throws. But they are calls resulting from preferential treatment by the refs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

he didnt do shit worth crediting man

got shit on by kawhi let alone td took a shit on him

[Clipper Nation]

Free throws aren't the only way a player can get preferential treatment by the refs.

LeBron doesn't get called for fouls when he hacks. He also never gets called for travel (though you can argue many NBA players don't). Didn't LeBron recently have a long stretch of games where he didn't commit a foul? It was something pretty ridiculous.

In the same vein, Duncan got similar preferential treatment at the defensive end of the court. In his career, Tim Duncan has never had a season where he averaged 3 fouls per 36 minutes... never. Pretty surprising for a shot blocker. For reference and comparison, Hakeem never had a season where he didn't average at least 3 fouls per 36 minutes. Argue all you want that Duncan was just smarter about not taking fouls, but it's just surprising that Duncan never did it even one season.
LeBron and Duncan are just disciplined and smart players, tbh, not much for the refs to call :lol

[Killakobe81]

Free throws aren't the only way a player can get preferential treatment by the refs.

LeBron doesn't get called for fouls when he hacks. He also never gets called for travel (though you can argue many NBA players don't). Didn't LeBron recently have a long stretch of games where he didn't commit a foul? It was something pretty ridiculous.

In the same vein, Duncan got similar preferential treatment at the defensive end of the court. In his career, Tim Duncan has never had a season where he averaged 3 fouls per 36 minutes... never. Pretty surprising for a shot blocker. For reference and comparison, Hakeem never had a season where he didn't average at least 3 fouls per 36 minutes. Argue all you want that Duncan was just smarter about not taking fouls, but it's just surprising that Duncan never did it even one season.

There are other ways to get preferential treatment by the refs than getting a huge number of free throws like Durant and Kobe got. Patrick Ewing almost never getting called for a travel when he would do that 3-4 step runner in the lane. Allen Iverson never getting called for a carry even though that's all he did when he dribbled. Jordan not getting called for an offensive foul when he pushed off a defender to create space for a jumper. Those aren't missed calls that should lead to free throws. But they are calls resulting from preferential treatment by the refs.

Jam on the proverbial roll ...
Man this place used to be great when it was you, Deeps, Mono, thread etc. posting regular. I used to lurk way before I joined. Pistons vs. spurs was the best rivalry on here from a posting stand-point outside of Mavs vs. Spurs

[RsxPiimp]

Jam on the proverbial roll ...
Man this place used to be great when it was you, Deeps, Mono, thread etc. posting regular. I used to lurk way before I joined. Pistons vs. spurs was the best rivalry on here from a posting stand-point outside of Mavs vs. Spurs
Jamstone definitely needs to post more. It was a great environment back then with Allanon, Jamstone, Harlem, DOK etc dominating the general board. They also had laker trolls during those days (cobbler for one) :lol

[Killakobe81]

Jamstone definitely needs to post more. It was a great environment back then with Allanon, Jamstone, Harlem, DOK etc dominating the general board. They also had laker trolls during those days (cobbler for one) :lol

Yes Allanon, DOK Harlem pre-Lebron fetish those were great times ... the Cobbler wars were funny to and Guiseppe even with the parrot stuff made this place funny as hell.

[RsxPiimp]

Yes Allanon, DOK Harlem pre-Lebron fetish those were great times ... the Cobbler wars were funny to and Guiseppe even with the parrot stuff made this place funny as hell.

Word:toast

Cobbler and ChrisRichards and MiamiHeat feud was worth the admission too

[AlexJones]

Was ChrisRichards actually HH?

[ambchang]

LeBron?

Crap, how could I left that out.

Lebron is probably in the Duncan to Bird range all time. But his MVP seasons would probably be top 3, I would rank him #2 behind Jordan.

[ambchang]

LeBron didn't, Duncan didn't....

To a degree, they did. Probably not as much as Durant or Jordan did during their days, but it was there.

[Killakobe81]

To a degree, they did. Probably not as much as Durant or Jordan did during their days, but it was there.

Appreciate your honesty here it's what separates you from CN ....

[RsxPiimp]

Was ChrisRichards actually HH?

Nope. CR was actually a die hard Kobe fan :lol

[Aztecfan03]

On an unrelated note, of all the multiple MVP winners, I will rank them as follows:
1 - Jordan
2 - Kareem
3 - Wilt
4 - Duncan
5 - Magic
6 - Bird
7 - Wilt
8 - Russell
9 - Moses
10 - Pettit
11 - Pedo
12 - Nash

WHy is Wilt listed twice?

[Aztecfan03]

LeBron?

I think one of the Wilts is supposed to be Lebron

[ambchang]

I think one of the Wilts is supposed to be Lebron

Yes. You're right.

[mudyez]

autocorrect is a bitch

[JamStone]

Jam on the proverbial roll ...
Man this place used to be great when it was you, Deeps, Mono, thread etc. posting regular. I used to lurk way before I joined. Pistons vs. spurs was the best rivalry on here from a posting stand-point outside of Mavs vs. Spurs

'preciate it. But sometimes it's better to just let go of something that's good before it goes bad. Some of us talk about the golden age of basketball in the 80s with Magic and Bird and pre-championship Jordan. And some of us wish we could go back and have that type of basketball in the NBA again. But it would be like living in the present and having 50+ year olds Magic and Bird and Jordan playing in today's NBA. It wouldn't be fun to watch. At some point, we had to let it go and we can't just simply go back to how it was. Don't think this place can recapture that magic. We got older and out of prime basketball shape.

Last couple years, for the most part, I stopped posting on all forums. I used to post daily on 3-4 different boards. Now, it's rare when I post on any. Needed a break. But also, I've sadly lost interest in the NBA. Maybe it's because the Pistons have sucked going on 6-7 years now. Maybe it was the superfriends teams or simply the lack of quality basketball played in the league now. I just have lost interest. There aren't really any players left I really root for or really like. My favorite players like KG and Manu are all but done. I've kind of lost my like for CP3 more or less. Not a really big fan of young stars like Durant or Rose or Harden. The players I have left that I like are probably Steph Curry and Lance Stephenson. And now Stephenson is playing for Charlotte. Honestly, as much as I used to despise him, LeBron James might be one of the only guys left in the league I would really look forward to watching still.

Coincidental or not, the fall of the NBA section on SpursTalk has followed the degradation of the NBA itself the last few years.

[scanry]

Allanon was a good poster back in the days. Whatever happened to him?

[Jenks]

From an advanced stat perspective:
- He ranked 12 all time in WS, and 10th in WS/48
- Only Jabbar, Jordan and Lebron had higher WS/48 in MVP seasons.
Too bad Robinson didn't win MVP in 94, he'd be on that list (Hakeem wasn't even close to 20 WS that or any other season)

[Venti Quattro]

Allanon was a good poster back in the days. Whatever happened to him?
DrHouse is better than any of these trolls lingering in the forum. Also Rappin' Shaq needs to make a cameo

[scanry]

DrHouse (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14624) is better than any of these trolls lingering in the forum. Also Rappin' Shaq (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13571) needs to make a cameo

Isn't Rappin Jam's troll?

[Venti Quattro]

Isn't Rappin Jam's troll?

Shit seriously? Didn't really know that. He had one troll though named LeCrab which he loaned to me

[Killakobe81]

'preciate it. But sometimes it's better to just let go of something that's good before it goes bad. Some of us talk about the golden age of basketball in the 80s with Magic and Bird and pre-championship Jordan. And some of us wish we could go back and have that type of basketball in the NBA again. But it would be like living in the present and having 50+ year olds Magic and Bird and Jordan playing in today's NBA. It wouldn't be fun to watch. At some point, we had to let it go and we can't just simply go back to how it was. Don't think this place can recapture that magic. We got older and out of prime basketball shape.

Last couple years, for the most part, I stopped posting on all forums. I used to post daily on 3-4 different boards. Now, it's rare when I post on any. Needed a break. But also, I've sadly lost interest in the NBA. Maybe it's because the Pistons have sucked going on 6-7 years now. Maybe it was the superfriends teams or simply the lack of quality basketball played in the league now. I just have lost interest. There aren't really any players left I really root for or really like. My favorite players like KG and Manu are all but done. I've kind of lost my like for CP3 more or less. Not a really big fan of young stars like Durant or Rose or Harden. The players I have left that I like are probably Steph Curry and Lance Stephenson. And now Stephenson is playing for Charlotte. Honestly, as much as I used to despise him, LeBron James might be one of the only guys left in the league I would really look forward to watching still.

Coincidental or not, the fall of the NBA section on SpursTalk has followed the degradation of the NBA itself the last few years.

IT's all good. I will stop posting on the regular as well though I doubt I will be missed on that level. TBh, and I know it's stupid but I hate the thought of leaving this place as the Lakers suck. I know it shouldnt matter since I dont know anyone on here personally ...but I guess it's some misplaced pride thing. I would rather see the Lakeshow become respectable ...before I bounce. But if this place stays in the shitter, I may have no choice. My job and family responsibilities have gotten deeper, so the free time I have has gotten rare. Though I admit, since I never cared for self policing my grammar or sentence structure your posts probably take more time than mine. I just right or wrong felt it was just a place to get out thoughts and wasnt worried about the quality of the prose. Only the message. And sometimes I was just shooting out shit something inbetween meetings or during the break in a training class.

As for the current NBA, it's funny but my Bron fanship has changed over the years. I was impressed with him early but could not stand the third person speech or the chosen one tattoo. But when he put on that performance in the playoffs against your guys I became "witness" and thought he was a legit GOAT candidate. The he turned tail, left the cavs with The Decision crap and I started to dislike him and the hype from the media and especially the protection he got on this site. He was NEVER the blame for his team's failures even though this site had clowned Dirk, KArl Malone, Kobe and even KG for theirs prior to winning. I know it's common to look for flaws in players you dislike but I just expect some consistency but it's hive of scum and vilaainy so why whould I expect more? Then Lebron had his run in 2012-013 (amazing) and I would say I admire his game but not a fan. Again I dont think he should have ever left the cavs so I support him returning ... if only to see what REAL fans Miami has left. But leaving one stacked team to join another not sure if I will root for or against James this year or remain neutral. The coach in me should really root for dem Spurs (outside my Lakers) but their fans are such big haters It makes that hard. I like Russ and KD so maybe I will root that way I just cant see that coach leading them anywhere. So maybe I will root for James he is the best player in the game only KD is close imho ...

Jam, I also dont like the superfriend era I guess we will see how long this lasts ...

[ambchang]

Too bad Robinson didn't win MVP in 94, he'd be on that list (Hakeem wasn't even close to 20 WS that or any other season)

Robinson was one of the more unappreciated superstars in his era, and it has since just gotten worse. He carried a horrible Spurs team to the playoffs year after year, only to have their weaknesses exploited year after year. It doesn't help that he had back and leg issues that essentially ended his prime, and there was no room for redemption.

Give Robinson a team similar to his rookie season team, a team with a rugged rebounding PF who can score in the low blocks, a PG who could shoot some what, and a couple of perimeter guys who can shoot from outside, and the Spurs go deep in the playoffs with Robinson putting up numbers similar or better than his regular season numbers every time.

Any coincidence his FG% starting to suck when the Spurs had a line up like that of the 92-93 Spurs? I mean, Lloyd Daniels and Del Negro getting 20 mpg? Sean Elliott was basically the only good player who can create his own shot other than Robinson on that team. And it went down hill from there.

In the 93-94 season, Robinson had WS numbers that are about the same as the next three best Spurs player. Willie Anderson, who came back from devastating leg injuries, was one of those players. No one on that Spurs team other than Robinson could create their own shots. It was so bad, Robinson, a center, led the team in assists that season. He also led the team in FGM, FGA, FTM, FTA, STL, BLKS and PTS.

[Killakobe81]

Robinson was one of the more unappreciated superstars in his era, and it has since just gotten worse. He carried a horrible Spurs team to the playoffs year after year, only to have their weaknesses exploited year after year. It doesn't help that he had back and leg issues that essentially ended his prime, and there was no room for redemption.

Give Robinson a team similar to his rookie season team, a team with a rugged rebounding PF who can score in the low blocks, a PG who could shoot some what, and a couple of perimeter guys who can shoot from outside, and the Spurs go deep in the playoffs with Robinson putting up numbers similar or better than his regular season numbers every time.

Any coincidence his FG% starting to suck when the Spurs had a line up like that of the 92-93 Spurs? I mean, Lloyd Daniels and Del Negro getting 20 mpg? Sean Elliott was basically the only good player who can create his own shot other than Robinson on that team. And it went down hill from there.

In the 93-94 season, Robinson had WS numbers that are about the same as the next three best Spurs player. Willie Anderson, who came back from devastating leg injuries, was one of those players. No one on that Spurs team other than Robinson could create their own shots. It was so bad, Robinson, a center, led the team in assists that season. He also led the team in FGM, FGA, FTM, FTA, STL, BLKS and PTS.

Robinson was an amazing player. Advanced stats and the eye test both validate what an amazing player he was . Tremendous player and just a superb athlete. Truly a SF trapped in a center's body. Look at his physique though chiseled, it reminded one of Scottie Pippen more than Shaq or even Ewing. As good as Dwight has been defensively I think Robinson was much better especially as pnr defender I may be wrong but that is what my eyes tell me.

All that being said David came up short much too often for me. One of my issues with advanced metrics it sometimes allows supporters to make excuses ...when great players fall short of expectations.Every great player needs help, no one not even MJ wins on their own. But Robinson was not a leader of men in the way Duncan is assumed to be and it's more than just a "team accomplishment". God bless him for stepping aside for Tim as his game "aged" ,but he just did not seem like alpha type to lead a title team. Maybe with the right cast he could have won like dirk who had those same questions ... but we will never know. I think it's great you go through these lengths to credit underrated players like David and Pau but truth is both were beta players that needed Duncan and Kobe to lead them to a title.

And no please dont make it a Kobe thread for my one mention. I only brought it up because you do the same things with David and to a lessor degree Pau.

[JamStone]

Isn't Rappin Jam's troll?

No. Rappin' Shaq is/was mono.

GOAT troll tbh.

[JamStone]

IT's all good. I will stop posting on the regular as well though I doubt I will be missed on that level. TBh, and I know it's stupid but I hate the thought of leaving this place as the Lakers suck. I know it shouldnt matter since I dont know anyone on here personally ...but I guess it's some misplaced pride thing. I would rather see the Lakeshow become respectable ...before I bounce. But if this place stays in the shitter, I may have no choice. My job and family responsibilities have gotten deeper, so the free time I have has gotten rare. Though I admit, since I never cared for self policing my grammar or sentence structure your posts probably take more time than mine. I just right or wrong felt it was just a place to get out thoughts and wasnt worried about the quality of the prose. Only the message. And sometimes I was just shooting out shit something inbetween meetings or during the break in a training class.

As for the current NBA, it's funny but my Bron fanship has changed over the years. I was impressed with him early but could not stand the third person speech or the chosen one tattoo. But when he put on that performance in the playoffs against your guys I became "witness" and thought he was a legit GOAT candidate. The he turned tail, left the cavs with The Decision crap and I started to dislike him and the hype from the media and especially the protection he got on this site. He was NEVER the blame for his team's failures even though this site had clowned Dirk, KArl Malone, Kobe and even KG for theirs prior to winning. I know it's common to look for flaws in players you dislike but I just expect some consistency but it's hive of scum and vilaainy so why whould I expect more? Then Lebron had his run in 2012-013 (amazing) and I would say I admire his game but not a fan. Again I dont think he should have ever left the cavs so I support him returning ... if only to see what REAL fans Miami has left. But leaving one stacked team to join another not sure if I will root for or against James this year or remain neutral. The coach in me should really root for dem Spurs (outside my Lakers) but their fans are such big haters It makes that hard. I like Russ and KD so maybe I will root that way I just cant see that coach leading them anywhere. So maybe I will root for James he is the best player in the game only KD is close imho ...

Jam, I also dont like the superfriend era I guess we will see how long this lasts ...

This place could get better and maybe it will. I just think it's unrealistic to try to get it back to when it was at its best in the mid 2000s.

I'm not a big fan of LeBron now. I was merely stating that out of any of the stars in today's NBA, he's probably one of the few players I actually look forward to watching. He's a beast on the basketball court. But I don't root or cheer for him or his team.

[Trainwreck2100]

This place could get better and maybe it will. I just think it's unrealistic to try to get it back to when it was at its best in the mid 2000s.

I'm not a big fan of LeBron now. I was merely stating that out of any of the stars in today's NBA, he's probably one of the few players I actually look forward to watching. He's a beast on the basketball court. But I don't root or cheer for him or his team.

It would be much worse if registration was open.

[ambchang]

Robinson was an amazing player. Advanced stats and the eye test both validate what an amazing player he was . Tremendous player and just a superb athlete. Truly a SF trapped in a center's body. Look at his physique though chiseled, it reminded one of Scottie Pippen more than Shaq or even Ewing. As good as Dwight has been defensively I think Robinson was much better especially as pnr defender I may be wrong but that is what my eyes tell me.

All that being said David came up short much too often for me. One of my issues with advanced metrics it sometimes allows supporters to make excuses ...when great players fall short of expectations.Every great player needs help, no one not even MJ wins on their own. But Robinson was not a leader of men in the way Duncan is assumed to be and it's more than just a "team accomplishment". God bless him for stepping aside for Tim as his game "aged" ,but he just did not seem like alpha type to lead a title team. Maybe with the right cast he could have won like dirk who had those same questions ... but we will never know. I think it's great you go through these lengths to credit underrated players like David and Pau but truth is both were beta players that needed Duncan and Kobe to lead them to a title.

And no please dont make it a Kobe thread for my one mention. I only brought it up because you do the same things with David and to a lessor degree Pau.

I believe Robinson would have won a championship with the right team around him, just like Dirk did. He wasn't a team leader nor the versatile player like Duncan, he doesn't really take over games no matter what like Jordan could (he doesn't have the handles nor the space, or the moves of Hakeem), but he was good enough to be an alpha on a championship team.

Robinson was like a predecessor of Garnett, in some ways. He didn't have the same range or handles, but Robinson was the superior low post player, penetrator, and defender (that's saying a lot). Robinson would really benefit from today's game, in which he can stretch the defense out to about 20 feet, drive and gets hammered to the way to the FT line. His passing would be a huge asset in the game (though he's more of a kick out passer than an interior passer like Diaw), and his quick reflex and recovery would be a great asset to have for him to defend a stretch 4 and still have the ability to recover and disrupt a shot at the rim.

As for MVPau, he has alpha skills and beta mindset.

[ambchang]

This place could get better and maybe it will. I just think it's unrealistic to try to get it back to when it was at its best in the mid 2000s.

I'm not a big fan of LeBron now. I was merely stating that out of any of the stars in today's NBA, he's probably one of the few players I actually look forward to watching. He's a beast on the basketball court. But I don't root or cheer for him or his team.

I personally see this downfall as a function of the demise of the Spurs after a few years of success.

Success brought new fans who are not overly knowledgeable about the game to the forum.
This place is infested with trolls who feast on those new comers.
A culture of trolling manifests.
Spurs starting to suck, which left the good posters from the Spurs and also the primary rivals with little to talk about. Leaving only the trolls.
Spurs starts to get good again, but the trolls have already dominated the boards.

[Jenks]

Robinson was one of the more unappreciated superstars in his era, and it has since just gotten worse. He carried a horrible Spurs team to the playoffs year after year, only to have their weaknesses exploited year after year. It doesn't help that he had back and leg issues that essentially ended his prime, and there was no room for redemption.

Give Robinson a team similar to his rookie season team, a team with a rugged rebounding PF who can score in the low blocks, a PG who could shoot some what, and a couple of perimeter guys who can shoot from outside, and the Spurs go deep in the playoffs with Robinson putting up numbers similar or better than his regular season numbers every time.

Any coincidence his FG% starting to suck when the Spurs had a line up like that of the 92-93 Spurs? I mean, Lloyd Daniels and Del Negro getting 20 mpg? Sean Elliott was basically the only good player who can create his own shot other than Robinson on that team. And it went down hill from there.

In the 93-94 season, Robinson had WS numbers that are about the same as the next three best Spurs player. Willie Anderson, who came back from devastating leg injuries, was one of those players. No one on that Spurs team other than Robinson could create their own shots. It was so bad, Robinson, a center, led the team in assists that season. He also led the team in FGM, FGA, FTM, FTA, STL, BLKS and PTS.
Preaching to the choir. It's so depressing that history just looks at the box score of one series to determine a player's legacy. Yes Hakeem had superior stats that series, and Robinson couldn't guard Hakeem one on one. The ignored fact is that Hakeem had no chance of guarding Robinson one on one, either. The difference is Hakeem was surrounded with fantastic shooters and a guy who would become a legendary stretch 4, while Robinson had an offensive dud for a 4 and a team of pretty poor shooters all around. Hakeem had spacing Robinson could only dream of, while the Rockets didn't have to respect anyone and just swarmed Robinson. They still might have won that series if his best help (Elliott) didn't single handedly choke away game 1.

That entire series could be summed up in two gifs, but ESPN has written history to only remember one:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/tumblr_mii2vquvkv1r99k95o1_500-gif.23838/

http://giant.gfycat.com/RecklessJadedGrunion.gif

[JamStone]

I personally see this downfall as a function of the demise of the Spurs after a few years of success.

Success brought new fans who are not overly knowledgeable about the game to the forum.
This place is infested with trolls who feast on those new comers.
A culture of trolling manifests.
Spurs starting to suck, which left the good posters from the Spurs and also the primary rivals with little to talk about. Leaving only the trolls.
Spurs starts to get good again, but the trolls have already dominated the boards.

The NBA section thriving on ST didn't really rely on the success or lack of success of the Spurs though. It's more tied into two other fan bases, the Lakers and the Mavs. When the Lakers got good again after they added Pau, Laker fans and trolls came out in droves and instigated a shitload of discussion, sometimes bad but plenty of good or at least interesting discourse. And before the Mavs won their championship, the Mavs fans basically ruled these boards with not only an eagerness to get their team some proper due and props, but also with intelligent though sometimes combative basketball discussion.

It actually feels like the ST NBA section has gotten worse with the demise of the Lakers and somewhat with the Mavs winning it all and their fans becoming content and complacent after finally winning a title as opposed to whatever the Spurs were doing.

[ambchang]

The NBA section thriving on ST didn't really rely on the success or lack of success of the Spurs though. It's more tied into two other fan bases, the Lakers and the Mavs. When the Lakers got good again after they added Pau, Laker fans and trolls came out in droves and instigated a shitload of discussion, sometimes bad but plenty of good or at least interesting discourse. And before the Mavs won their championship, the Mavs fans basically ruled these boards with not only an eagerness to get their team some proper due and props, but also with intelligent though sometimes combative basketball discussion.

It actually feels like the ST NBA section has gotten worse with the demise of the Lakers and somewhat with the Mavs winning it all and their fans becoming content and complacent after finally winning a title as opposed to whatever the Spurs were doing.

Likely biased on my part, but the NBA board has gone downhill ever since the Pistons demise. Laker and Mavs trolls were over eager for recognition, and the amount of trolling just went overboard and killed most healthy discussions.

[Brazil]

The NBA section thriving on ST didn't really rely on the success or lack of success of the Spurs though. It's more tied into two other fan bases, the Lakers and the Mavs. When the Lakers got good again after they added Pau, Laker fans and trolls came out in droves and instigated a shitload of discussion, sometimes bad but plenty of good or at least interesting discourse. And before the Mavs won their championship, the Mavs fans basically ruled these boards with not only an eagerness to get their team some proper due and props, but also with intelligent though sometimes combative basketball discussion.

It actually feels like the ST NBA section has gotten worse with the demise of the Lakers and somewhat with the Mavs winning it all and their fans becoming content and complacent after finally winning a title as opposed to whatever the Spurs were doing.

Spurs success have less influence on nba forum than mavs or lakers indeed... too bad heat successes don't get us some new blood, same with OKC btw...

[Trainwreck2100]

The NBA section thriving on ST didn't really rely on the success or lack of success of the Spurs though. It's more tied into two other fan bases, the Lakers and the Mavs. When the Lakers got good again after they added Pau, Laker fans and trolls came out in droves and instigated a shitload of discussion, sometimes bad but plenty of good or at least interesting discourse. And before the Mavs won their championship, the Mavs fans basically ruled these boards with not only an eagerness to get their team some proper due and props, but also with intelligent though sometimes combative basketball discussion.

It actually feels like the ST NBA section has gotten worse with the demise of the Lakers and somewhat with the Mavs winning it all and their fans becoming content and complacent after finally winning a title as opposed to whatever the Spurs were doing.

It has everything to do with the Lakers demise. Once they went to shit. The uber troll Lakers fans went on the defensive and so they just went after the low hanging fruit of gnsf.