Baynes Thinks He's Worth $2M a Year

[01Snake]

Money has kept Baynes and the Spurs from coming to an agreement, and it doesn't look like that gap will be closing soon. On the first day of free agency, the team extended a $1.1 million qualifying offer and made him a restricted free agent, but the 6'10" center believes his worth is closer to $2 million a year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-spurs-willing-sign-trade-011443102.html

[anakha]

The closest comparison might be Bonner's last and current contract.

Bonner at $3M was considered overpaid. Bonner at the minimum raised few eyebrows, if any.

Would Baynes at $2M be considered an overpay for a 4th/5th big?

[MarCowMar]

Seems a team like the Sixers could drop $2M on him and it wouldn't be such a bad deal.

[spursparker9]

Banes will be gone...

[Tuddy]

Get that in the Euroleague easy

[Robz4000]

:lol Errors fucking the Spurs over again

[KL2]

Fuck Ayres, he doesn't belong in the nba, Baynes should've been signed already. Give him consistent playing time and see what he can do.

[baseline bum]

You're fucking kidding me. $900,000 a year is stopping the Spurs from signing Baynes? Does he want a 4-5 year deal or something? The Spurs aren't even close to hitting the luxury tax since they're not using the MLE this year, so this makes no sense unless Baynes is asking for a long term contract.

[unforeseen]

Dude has a ring so now he is looking to get paidPERIOD

[cd98]

Hate to break it to him, but if no one has offered him $2 million, he's not worth that much. I guess this could be a Bledsoe deal on a smaller scale. Teams know Spurs will match $2 million so why bother. Spurs get him for $1.1 because no one else makes him an offer.

[Russo21]

He played 592 total minutes last year. The Spurs offered 1.1 million which would be $1858 per minute of court time. Baynes wants 2 million which would be $3378 per minute of court time. Baynes should just take the 1.1 offer and prove himself to get more $ next year. 1.1 million is a lot of coin either way you look at it. I don't even want to know what Ayres gets paid per minute of court time!

[ss1986v2]

I don't even want to know what Ayres gets paid per minute of court time!

About the same as Baynes, if we use his salary from last year. $1838 per minute.

[Cklbmk]

id give him 2mil a year for 2 years in a heart beat... If he wanted more years though.. idk

[Cklbmk]

About the same as Baynes, if we use his salary from last year. $1838 per minute.


I wish it was like 1mil per minute for Ayers tbh

[cd021]

The closest comparison might be Bonner's last and current contract.

Bonner at $3M was considered overpaid. Bonner at the minimum raised few eyebrows, if any.

Would Baynes at $2M be considered an overpay for a 4th/5th big?

Bonner signed that contract as a 4 year deal, the last year was $3.9 million (which was an overpay) For the vet. min he is fine. For $2 million its not really an overpay but it seems the Spurs just aren't that in love with him.

They may already have some one else in mind or prefer to keep the spot open for someone better.

[Mel_13]

Maybe he needs a new agent. His current agent hasn't been able to find any team that agrees with Aron's assessment of his value.

Or follow the example that Patty set for him last summer and actually earn a bigger payday.

[exstatic]

id give him 2mil a year for 2 years in a heart beat... If he wanted more years though.. idk

Why would you give him 2 mil when you can have him for 1.1M? No one is coming in with another offer. Why would you bid against yourself?

[Mikeanaro]

They should pay him I mean they slept with Errors...

[daslicer]

Nobody should be angry at Ayres for the current situation. Baynes is not worth 2 mil simply because nobody in the market has offered him that money. Spurs shouldn't offer him 2 mil let him pout and whine and then he will come crawling back when no team gives him the money he wants or he might go to Europe.

[Uriel]

Why would you give him 2 mil when you can have him for 1.1M? No one is coming in with another offer. Why would you bid against yourself?
Because he could bolt in favor of the more lucrative offers in the Euroleague, and the Spurs aren't going to get a better 4th / 5th big than Baynes in the current free agent market.


You're fucking kidding me. $900,000 a year is stopping the Spurs from signing Baynes? Does he want a 4-5 year deal or something? The Spurs aren't even close to hitting the luxury tax since they're not using the MLE this year, so this makes no sense unless Baynes is asking for a long term contract.
Exactly. :tu Just pay the man his $2M. He more than proved his worth in FIBA. If anything, just taking Errors' minutes in the regular season rotation already more than makes him worth the extra $900K.

[Ice009]

I think I said it weeks ago, but I think Baynes saw what Ayres is getting and he thinks he's worth at least that much. I think he feels like he's a better player and probably doesn't want to come back for less money while Ayres is getting paid more. Who knows, maybe he dominates Ayres in practice?

I hope he realizes Ayres is overpaid. If not, someone should tell him that.

[ElNono]

Maybe he needs a new agent. His current agent hasn't been able to find any team that agrees with Aron's assessment of his value.

I don't know about this. It's also plausible he has such an offer from an Euro team ($2m is, relatively speaking, pocket change), but would rather stay in the NBA if the Spurs are willing.

I always liked Baynes, tbh... I'm with baseline bum, penny-pinching a guy that was relatively useful in consecutive, deep playoff runs just doesn't look ok, IMO.

[exstatic]

Because he could bolt in favor of the more lucrative offers in the Euroleague, and the Spurs aren't going to get a better 4th / 5th big than Baynes in the current free agent market.


Who cares? Baynes is what is known as a 'replacement level player'. If the Spurs can take a 26 YO undrafted Aussie and turn him into an NBA roster player, there probably is 50 guys out there they can do that with. There is nothing special, basketball-wise, about Aron Baynes.

[exstatic]

I think I said it weeks ago, but I think Baynes saw what Ayres is getting and he thinks he's worth at least that much. I think he feels like he's a better player and probably doesn't want to come back for less money while Ayres is getting paid more. Who knows, maybe he dominates Ayres in practice?

Stephen Jackson got cut right before the 2013 playoffs for just that kind of thinking. Pop won't have any of it. Baynes had better recognize.

[Biernutz]

Good luck to Aron where ever he ends up. My big surprise is that the Mav's have not offered
him a contract yet...In the past years they have signed $$$$ our big's that we let go.

[wildcardX]

:lol Errors fucking the Spurs over again

I guess Baynes wants to get paid more than Ayres. I don't see why not. He was used more in the playoffs and played much better than Ayres this summer. I don't know what Ayres has done to deserve his contract.

[exstatic]

I guess Baynes wants to get paid more than Ayres. I don't see why not. He was used more in the playoffs and played much better than Ayres this summer. I don't know what Ayres has done to deserve his contract.
He was an unrestricted FA.

[SupremeGuy]

Errors screws us with his play during the season and now his contract is screwing us in the offseason. I'm going to be really disappointed if we go into the season paying and keeping Errors but not Baynes. Such a stupid decision, tbh.

[Biernutz]

Errors screws us with his play during the season and now his contract is screwing us in the offseason. I'm going to be really disappointed if we go into the season paying and keeping Errors but not Baynes. Such a stupid decision, tbh.

Not all contracts work out *RJ* but in time they all will go away......

[HI-FI]

hopefully they can keep Baynes. $2million a year don't seem like an overpayment, not with Errors on the team.

[baseline bum]

If the Spurs end up with Ryan Hollins as the fifth big over a $900,000 difference in contract terms... smh.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs end up with Ryan Hollins as the fifth big over a $900,000 difference in contract terms... smh.

I doubt they're even considering him. He's an idiot.

[Chinook]

I really don't think the Spurs want four centers on the roster. I think if they were okay with that, they would give him his money without problem. They can either not pay Baynes or pay him and then pay Ayres to go away. Despite what people think, they are pretty much the same player, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to spend and extra couple million bucks.

I do concede that it may be more about contract length, though. The Spurs still seem to be planning on having cap space next summer, and Baynes making $2 Million is a big deal. I also think the team wants to preserve Aron's RFA status for next season, and you know that's about the last thing he would want.

[scanry]

Baynes is one of those locker room/bench friendly guys. I would be pissed if Baynes bolts. He's needed now that Tim will play fewer minutes in the regular season. I just hope RC does the right thing.

[Mel_13]

I don't know about this. It's also plausible he has such an offer from an Euro team ($2m is, relatively speaking, pocket change), but would rather stay in the NBA if the Spurs are willing.

I always liked Baynes, tbh... I'm with baseline bum, penny-pinching a guy that was relatively useful in consecutive, deep playoff runs just doesn't look ok, IMO.

Just don't agree. I don't find it plausible that he's sitting on a $2M offer from a team in Europe, and I don't see the current offer as penny pinching. He's a restricted free agent. It's up to him and his agent to generate an offer that the Spurs will either match or let him go. That's the nature of the business. As it is, he has a standing offer that represents a 41% increase in salary over last year. Not bad for a guy who played less than 500 minutes last year and was making about 150K when the Spurs brought him to the NBA.

I like Baynes, but there's absolutely no reason for the Spurs to increase their offer.

[Chinook]

I like Baynes, but there's absolutely no reason for the Spurs to increase their offer.

Provided they're not trying to sign him long term, of course. If they are, then obviously he has a right to demand more money. Even if they aren't, but if some overseas team is, then he also has a right to ask for more. Like if some team in China is offering a $2.5M/3 deal, then he may want the Spurs to increase their one-year offer to make it worth it to him to stay.

[exstatic]

Baynes is one of those locker room/bench friendly guys. I would be pissed if Baynes bolts. He's needed now that Tim will play fewer minutes in the regular season. I just hope RC does the right thing.

He is doing the right thing.

People always marvel at how the Spurs keep such a clean cap sheet. This is exactly how you do that. You do NOT lock your self in a room and begin bidding yourself up.

[ElNono]

Just don't agree. I don't find it plausible that he's sitting on a $2M offer from a team in Europe, and I don't see the current offer as penny pinching. He's a restricted free agent. It's up to him and his agent to generate an offer that the Spurs will either match or let him go. That's the nature of the business. As it is, he has a standing offer that represents a 41% increase in salary over last year. Not bad for a guy who played less than 500 minutes last year and was making about 150K when the Spurs brought him to the NBA.

I like Baynes, but there's absolutely no reason for the Spurs to increase their offer.

I understand "the nature of the business". But he's a legitimate 7 footer, he doesn't have a Thabeet-type of personality, and physically, he can do some things against certain matchups that were useful for the Spurs. Even if he was the 5th big on the team (and I legitimately would place him as the 4th big when the playoffs rolled around), I thought he was an asset.

I know the Spurs don't have to offer a cent more, but if you ask me if he's worth $2m, I do think he's worth $2m. At least for another season. If he's asking for a longer-term deal and what not, then things would be different.

[Mel_13]

Provided they're not trying to sign him long term, of course. If they are, then obviously he has a right to demand more money. Even if they aren't, but if some overseas team is, then he also has a right to ask for more. Like if some team in China is offering a $2.5M/3 deal, then he may want the Spurs to increase their one-year offer to make it worth it to him to stay.

I don't believe that the Spurs are looking to sign him long term. I agree with your earlier post that they want him as an RFA next summer if they're to keep him at all.

As for an overseas offer such as the one you suggest, I believe the Spurs would wish him good luck. If he wants back into the NBA after that, he'll still be a restricted free agent until the Spurs renounce his rights.

[Mel_13]

I understand "the nature of the business". But he's a legitimate 7 footer, he doesn't have a Thabeet-type of personality, and physically, he can do some things against certain matchups that were useful for the Spurs. Even if he was the 5th big on the team (and I legitimately would place him as the 4th big when the playoffs rolled around), I thought he was an asset.

I know the Spurs don't have to offer a cent more, but if you ask me if he's worth $2m, I do think he's worth $2m. At least for another season. If he's asking for a longer-term deal and what not, then things would be different.

And I imagine he wants both more money and more years. For all we know, the Spurs may have offered him more on a one year deal, but he'll be a restricted free agent again next summer in that case. I'd guess he wants to avoid that.

That's why I find no reason to say that the Spurs are penny pinching. We have no idea what the Spurs may have offered above the QO. We only know that it's not enough for Baynes.

[Ice009]

My number for Baynes a couple of months ago was 1.7-1.8 million. That's a little bit of an increase to give him some incentive for his hard work (I'm sure he's worked hard in practice during his time with the Spurs). My thinking was to give him a slight pay rise to keep him happy, something like a 500K-600K pay increase. Nothing has changed for me, that is still the number I'd offer - around 1.8M max. If that's still not enough, then I'd probably try and trade him or let him go.

Edit : I should ask, what was he making last season? Is the QO much of an increase compared to what he made last season?

I hope that the Spurs aren't penny pinching for no reason. If they don't think he's worth more than the minimum, then fair enough (I guess I won't argue with that if that is their assessment of him), but if they do somewhat value him and are penny pinching just because they can, then that very unfortunate for Aron.

I also wonder if the Spurs want to upgrade his spot, or even use that roster spot for another position, so they're offering him the minimum cause they don't really want him back unless it's for a minimum contract?

[024]

I'd be surprised if the spurs are squabbling over 900k, especially since Duncan took that salary pay cut and the spurs are nowhere near the luxury tax. The only issue I can see is a roster spot. Spurs need to cut either Daye or find a sucker to take Ayres.

[Chinook]

Edit : I should ask, what was he making last season? Is the QO much of an increase compared to what he made last season?

A little less than $800k. So he's getting a raise. It seems more than appropriate considering he didn't play a lot an wasn't particularly proficient when he did play.

[benstanfield]

I don't love Ayres, but one of the two of them has to be the human victory cigar and you don't want to pay the human victory cigar much more than the minimum. Ayres is already on the books so...

[Mel_13]

My number for Baynes a couple of months ago was 1.7-1.8 million. That's a little bit of an increase to give him some incentive for his hard work (I'm sure he's worked hard in practice during his time with the Spurs). My thinking was to give him a slight pay rise to keep him happy, something like a 500K-600K pay increase. Nothing has changed for me, that is still the number I'd offer - around 1.8M max. If that's still not enough, then I'd probably try and trade him or let him go.

Edit : I should ask, what was he making last season? Is the QO much of an increase compared to what he made last season?

I hope that the Spurs aren't penny pinching for no reason. If they don't think he's worth more than the minimum, then fair enough (I guess I won't argue with that if that is their assessment of him), but if they do somewhat value him and are penny pinching just because they can, then that very unfortunate for Aron.

I also wonder if the Spurs want to upgrade his spot, or even use that roster spot for another position, so they're offering him the minimum cause they don't really want him back unless it's for a minimum contract?

The QO represents an increase of 327K over last season and is 200K above the league minimum for a player with Baynes' years of service.

[Chinook]

I'd be surprised if the spurs are squabbling over 900k, especially since Duncan took that salary pay cut and the spurs are nowhere near the luxury tax. The only issue I can see is a roster spot. Spurs need to cut either Daye or find a sucker to take Ayres.

Then you start to get into a much bigger financial discussion. Baynes may be worth an extra $900k, but he's not worth that AND the team having to eat someone else's contract or giving up an asset to move such a player to another team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Most people seem to have the impression he wants 2 mil on a 1 year contract, which is very unlikely. As already mentioned if he receives an increased one year offer he'll still be a RFA next summer and after what's happening in his first FA summer, it's no surprise he wouldn't want any more of that. The much more logical conclusion would be that he wants 2 mil per on a long term contract and this is why the Spurs are having none of it, not because they wouldn't give him a few hundred thousand more on a 1 year contract.

As he doesn't seem to have offers matching his own valuationif he wants to continue playing in the NBA he'd be smart to sign the QO and seek a payday next summer.

[100%duncan]

I'd demand that money too if a scrub is earning more than me.

[ChumpDumper]

What makes anyone think the Spurs want to get rid of Ayres aside from wishful thinking?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'd demand that money too if a scrub is earning more than me.

Stephen Jackson thought he was better than Danny Green too.

[wildchild]

So we'll lose Baynes but still keep Ayres? Kiwi Adams will eat Ayres alive...

At least Aron gave us 10/12 decent minutes in 3 or 4 consecutives games against OKC last playoffs

[100%duncan]

Stephen Jackson thought he was better than Danny Green too.

Meaning?

Are you implying that Ayres is better than Baynes?

Sjax also thought he was better than Manu, he's a knucklehead not deserving of a reference.

[ElNono]

And I imagine he wants both more money and more years. For all we know, the Spurs may have offered him more on a one year deal, but he'll be a restricted free agent again next summer in that case. I'd guess he wants to avoid that.

That's why I find no reason to say that the Spurs are penny pinching. We have no idea what the Spurs may have offered above the QO. We only know that it's not enough for Baynes.

Certainly there's plenty we don't know. I was merely speculating on the scenario where it's just one year extension. Under that scenario, I think he's worth the $2m, and I would certainly describe a potential Spurs move not to offer the difference as penny pinching. Obviously, we don't know, and not only it's just speculation, but also merely an opinion. Other scenarios (he wants more years, etc) would certainly change that outlook.

[T Park]

I'd be surprised if the spurs are squabbling over 900k, especially since Duncan took that salary pay cut and the spurs are nowhere near the luxury tax. The only issue I can see is a roster spot. Spurs need to cut either Daye or find a sucker to take Ayres.

Not really. you can have 15. they had 14 last year. Anderson makes it 15.

[Texas_Ranger]

Does it really matter if the Spurs sign him or not? He's the 5/6 big who isn't really that good and definitely not worth 2M a year. His International play doen't really show anything, cause a lot of guys play good for their country and then can't play in the NBA.... I just hope Hollins won't be signed. Damn, that would mean we have two Errors on the team.

[objective]

He's worth the 2 million.

He proved he could step up and perform in emergency situations, much better than Ayres. Considering the injury issues that usually plague splitter for bumps of the season, and the rest of Duncan, and the general terrible play of Ayres, Baynes is a good deal at $2 million.

It would be very disappointing without Baynes on the roster next season.

[mudyez]

Worth 2mio for 1year but not 1mio per 2years is what it comes down to.

I'd happily have him stay with the team as it would bring back the full band (+KA) but keeping the summer of '15 cap as clean as possible is a must do and the roster spot is highly valuable for a team like the Spurs.

That said: No sour grapes if he leaves for more money or a longer contract. Always liked that dude and you can't fault someone at his age trying to get the most out of his skills as long as they are avaluable.

[99 Problems]

What's the big deal? He plays in a league that overpays half the guys. Heck there's only 2 guys in the league worth max yet everyone thinks they deserve it. :lol

[mudyez]

What's the big deal? He plays in a league that overpays half the guys. Heck there's only 2 guys in the league worth max yet everyone thinks they deserve it. :lol

Guess the Spurs think they are smarter than the other teams.

[z0sa]

Major mistake by the FO is Baynes isn't resigned.

[jeebus]

Maybe he needs a new agent. His current agent hasn't been able to find any team that agrees with Aron's assessment of his value.

Or follow the example that Patty set for him last summer and actually earn a bigger payday.
I was thinking this too. I remember reading a couple months ago that Baynes was letting his agent handle all of the offseason stuff so it's all on the agent for not coming to an agreement with the Spurs.


I guess Baynes wants to get paid more than Ayres. I don't see why not. He was used more in the playoffs and played much better than Ayres this summer. I don't know what Ayres has done to deserve his contract.
This. Errors is getting paid over $1.8 million; it's not unreasonable for Baynes to get paid that much or $2 million. The FO fucked up when they kept Errors and Daye and now they're fucking up even more by penny pinching for a reasonable big man. Tim and Tiago are going to be in and out of the line up this season which leaves Diaw and 3 useless scrubs as our only other big men. Pretty pathetic.

[Mel_13]

Certainly there's plenty we don't know. I was merely speculating on the scenario where it's just one year extension. Under that scenario, I think he's worth the $2m, and I would certainly describe a potential Spurs move not to offer the difference as penny pinching. Obviously, we don't know, and not only it's just speculation, but also merely an opinion. Other scenarios (he wants more years, etc) would certainly change that outlook.

True enough that almost everything in this thread is speculation and opinion, so let's add a hypothetical.

One thing we actually know is that Baynes has been a free agent for about eleven weeks and has yet to sign an offer sheet. So, if we're to believe the report in the OP, Baynes has been unable to generate a multi-year dealing starting at 2M or higher. If he had been able to get such an offer, if we're to believe the report, he certainly would have signed it and presented it to the Spurs.

Absent an offer from an NBA team, Baynes' only leverage is an offer from an international team. Here's we go off into pure speculation, but we do know that many European teams have already begun their training camps, so we're getting late in the game for any lucrative offer.

So here's the hypothetical. In the absence of any actual offer superior to the QO, should the Spurs increase their offer to Baynes? I say no. What say you?

[hsxvvd]

Let him play on the qualifying offer. Play hungry and earn the pay day as an unrestricted FA.

[exstatic]

Meaning?

Are you implying that Ayres is better than Baynes?

Sjax also thought he was better than Manu, he's a knucklehead not deserving of a reference.

He's implying that the LAST guy who thought he was better than another Spurs player was given an invitation to the world on the eve of the 2013 playoffs. That, ALONE, would be a reason to wish Aron well with another team. Pop won't have that kind of dissent in the locker room.

[KL2]

Baynes has helped the Spurs in the playoffs a few times, most memorable for me was against OKC this year and LA last year. He brings toughness into the game, his hard screens (which free up the offense), boxing guys out, battling in the post making scoring hard, he's the type of guy to drain the other team of energy.

Plus he looks like he's got a lot of potential, his shots look GOOD, even his jumper looks decent, it's a matter of him getting more playing time, confidence, and experience. When that happens I think SA will have another gem.

[Dex]

True enough that almost everything in this thread is speculation and opinion, so let's add a hypothetical.

One thing we actually know is that Baynes has been a free agent for about eleven weeks and has yet to sign an offer sheet. So, if we're to believe the report in the OP, Baynes has been unable to generate a multi-year dealing starting at 2M or higher. If he had been able to get such an offer, if we're to believe the report, he certainly would have signed it and presented it to the Spurs.

Absent an offer from an NBA team, Baynes' only leverage is an offer from an international team. Here's we go off into pure speculation, but we do know that many European teams have already begun their training camps, so we're getting late in the game for any lucrative offer.

So here's the hypothetical. In the absence of any actual offer superior to the QO, should the Spurs increase their offer to Baynes? I say no. What say you?

I say meet him in the middle. Baynes' agent is obviously trying to haggle over his value, and any good negotiator knows you don't start with your final offer.

Baynes had a good season last year, considering his role, and played well with Australia. He fills an important part as our banger and enforcer, and he's young enough to still have potential upside.

Is he worth more than the $1.1M the Spurs have already put on the table? As you well pointed out, other teams don't seem to think so yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't the case. If Baynes truly doesn't have any other offers, then it would be bad play on his part to start bargaining with the Spurs.

Like I said...meet him somewhere in the middle at around $1.6M, and spend the extra $500k just to keep a potential prospect, good locker room guy, and big who already knows how to play in the system.

[100%duncan]

He's implying that the LAST guy who thought he was better than another Spurs player was given an invitation to the world on the eve of the 2013 playoffs. That, ALONE, would be a reason to wish Aron well with another team. Pop won't have that kind of dissent in the locker room.

So bitching and being a locker room cancer=asking for what you are actually worth? What did Jax do in the court during that time for Pop to grant him his foolish request? Nothing. On the other hand, Baynes is a decent back up C and has shown last playoffs that he can be a niche pick. And for just 900k more, it's not like there is someone better than him at this point in the market.

[Ice009]

Stephen Jackson thought he was better than Danny Green too.

Who the heck were the players that Pop asked Stephen if he thought he was better than? Was it both Danny and Manu? How about Kawhi?

I'm not too pleased anytime that I think about that situation. I also don't know the full story and what went on behind closed doors, so I haven't commented on it much.

[TheGreatYacht]

Baynes scored more in 1 game at the World Cup, than Ayres did in the whole summer league :lol If you're okay with keeping Errors over Baynes... Go check your brain for tumors.

Baynes vs Ayres:
Rebounding - Equal
Scoring - Baynes X1000
Hands - Baynes X1000000
Potential - Baynes
Defense - N/A
IQ - Baynes X10000000000
Energy - Baynes

The posters on here who don't care if Aron leaves are the same people who cussed at their TV when Blair raped all of our bigs tbh

[Mel_13]

I say meet him in the middle. Baynes' agent is obviously trying to haggle over his value, and any good negotiator knows you don't start with your final offer.

Baynes had a good season last year, considering his role, and played well with Australia. He fills an important part as our banger and enforcer, and he's young enough to still have potential upside.

Is he worth more than the $1.1M the Spurs have already put on the table? As you well pointed out, other teams don't seem to think so yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't the case. If Baynes truly doesn't have any other offers, then it would be bad play on his part to start bargaining with the Spurs.

Like I said...meet him somewhere in the middle at around $1.6M, and spend the extra $500k just to keep a potential prospect, good locker room guy, and big who already knows how to play in the system.

Giving him more on one year deal won't hurt the Spurs, but if truly has no other offers, then where's he going to go if the Spurs don't increase their offer? For me, his issues should be with his agent, not with the Spurs. That guy hasn't, to this point, done the job of creating a market for his client. As stated above, the Spurs have already offered him a 40% raise over last season. Without a legitimate offer from some other professional team, I still don't see any reason for the Spurs to bump up their offer.

[moisaenz]

Maybe he is worth it but nobody has offered him that

[313]

Ayers is making near 2 mil this year correct?
Aron > Ayers

Therefore, he is definitely worth 2 million.

Just sign the man.

[ElNono]

True enough that almost everything in this thread is speculation and opinion, so let's add a hypothetical.

One thing we actually know is that Baynes has been a free agent for about eleven weeks and has yet to sign an offer sheet. So, if we're to believe the report in the OP, Baynes has been unable to generate a multi-year dealing starting at 2M or higher. If he had been able to get such an offer, if we're to believe the report, he certainly would have signed it and presented it to the Spurs.

Absent an offer from an NBA team, Baynes' only leverage is an offer from an international team. Here's we go off into pure speculation, but we do know that many European teams have already begun their training camps, so we're getting late in the game for any lucrative offer.

So here's the hypothetical. In the absence of any actual offer superior to the QO, should the Spurs increase their offer to Baynes? I say no. What say you?

Bottom line, and this is just my opinion, if he's just looking for a one year extension, then I think $2m is a fair deal for what he brings. Yes, the Spurs don't "have to" offer a penny more, but between losing him and paying the difference, I personally think the latter would be more beneficial, basketball-wise, to the Spurs. He's obviously a marginal talent, so I can understand people that don't agree with that view.

I don't think he'll have a problem finding a deal that pays him that in Europe. I do think if things stretched this long it's mainly because he would like to stick in the NBA.

[ceperez]

Here's what doesn't make sense. Baynes did play well in the recent FIBA tournament. However, it indeed is strange that no other NBA team has made an alternative offer.

So it does seem like NBA teams aren't interested in Baynes. It's also interesting that there are a lot of other big men in free agency that aren't getting any interest. Raduljica is a legit 7 footer but nobody has signed him yet after being waived by the Clippers. So it seems that NBA teams aren't in dire need of traditional center.

[Mel_13]

Bottom line, and this is just my opinion, if he's just looking for a one year extension, then I think $2m is a fair deal for what he brings. Yes, the Spurs don't "have to" offer a penny more, but between losing him and paying the difference, I personally think the latter would be more beneficial, basketball-wise, to the Spurs. He's obviously a marginal talent, so I can understand people that don't agree with that view.

I don't think he'll have a problem finding a deal that pays him that in Europe. I do think if things stretched this long it's mainly because he would like to stick in the NBA.

:lol

It was a simple question. In the absence of any actual offer superior to the QO, should the Spurs increase their offer to Baynes?

You posit a scenario in which in can easily get a superior offer.

[boutons_deux]

REPORT: SPURS OPEN TO A SIGN AND TRADE INVOLVING ARON BAYNES (http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-spurs-open-to-a-sign-and-trade-involving-aron-baynes.html)



http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-spurs-open-to-a-sign-and-trade-involving-aron-baynes.html

[Mel_13]

Here's what doesn't make sense. Baynes did play well in the recent FIBA tournament. However, it indeed is strange that no other NBA team has made an alternative offer.

So it does seem like NBA teams aren't interested in Baynes. It's also interesting that there are a lot of other big men in free agency that aren't getting any interest. Raduljica is a legit 7 footer but nobody has signed him yet after being waived by the Clippers. So it seems that NBA teams aren't in dire need of traditional center.

Also Blatche.

[Mikeanaro]

REPORT: SPURS OPEN TO A SIGN AND TRADE INVOLVING ARON BAYNES (http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-spurs-open-to-a-sign-and-trade-involving-aron-baynes.html)



http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-spurs-open-to-a-sign-and-trade-involving-aron-baynes.html

They have been saying that since yersterday...
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/nba/rumors/post/_/id/29684/spurs-looking-to-move-baynes

[Brazil]

:lol @ He thinks he's worth

Based on what ? Until he has an offer of 2M he's worth the Spurs Q&O.

[MilesTeg]

Pretty sure he can make 2M in Europe, probably even more.

2 million is what a second tier player makes in the Euroleague. Baynes didn't play for very long over there, but when he did he was dominant. Add to that his performance at the WC, and you get the conclusion that he's really good with FIBA style. Someone is bound to give him an offer.

[Chinook]

Pretty sure he can make 2M in Europe, probably even more.

2 million is what a second tier player makes in the Euroleague. Baynes didn't play for very long over there, but when he did he was dominant. Add to that his performance at the WC, and you get the conclusion that he's really good with FIBA style. Someone is bound to give him an offer.

While players in Europe can certainly make more than $2 Million, it's not all that common. It's probably the equivalent of making $10 Million in the NBA. While it's not impossible for a team to give him that money, he'd have an exceptionally hard time getting in this late in the off-season.

[SnakeBoy]

You're fucking kidding me. $900,000 a year is stopping the Spurs from signing Baynes? Does he want a 4-5 year deal or something? The Spurs aren't even close to hitting the luxury tax since they're not using the MLE this year, so this makes no sense unless Baynes is asking for a long term contract.

The previous reports were that he wanted a longer term deal. The Spurs had said they would match any "reasonable" offer. I can't imagine it's just the extra $900k that the Spurs are finding unreasonable. I like Baynes but he's not going to be the difference between repeating or not so I don't really care if he comes back or not.

[Andthentherewas21]

I think a lot of people are confusing what Aron Baynes is worth versus what he's paid. Just because he hasn't gotten offers above his QO doesn't necessarily mean hes not worth more, it just means that the market isn't willing to pay him more. For instance, Danny Green is almost certainly worth more than the $4 million he is making this season, both to the Spurs and within the league at large (at least until he hits FA next season). However since the NBA is not an ideal market economy, people can't strictly point to a lack of offers as measure for his worth or value. Its definitely an indicator but its not an absolute measure for it.

The more important question is what is Baynes' inherent worth to the Spurs organization and does it exceed: (1) The $2 million/yr or whatever figure he is asking for, (2) Does it hamstring or somehow inhibit their long-term goals, (3) what do they value the flexibility of a roster spot (e.g. is it worth $2 million+ to sign Baynes and potentially get rid of Daye/Ayres), and so on.

From an advanced stat standpoint, Ayres actually has outplayed Baynes which conceivably justifies the current disparity in their salaries. Now given the sample sizes between the two there is an argument to be made that the size is too small. Personally I think Baynes is the better player and I wouldn't be opposed to paying him 2mil and yr for 2-3 years if that it took to keep him, especially if it was front-loaded. I think Baynes provides a role which the Spurs need given the age of Duncan and Splitters playing style, in that he is a more physical center who can match up well with many of the potential opponents the Spurs will face in the postseason next year (Rockets, Thunder, Portland, Dallas to some extent).

[Mel_13]

the NBA is not an ideal market economy

Correct. It's an economy regulated by an agreement collectively bargained between labor and management. In an ideal market economy, LeBron would make 50M a year. All the comments about the lack of offers and how they relate to Baynes' value are made within the context of the rules for restricted free agency specified in the CBA, rules which are mostly unfavorable for the players, but rules which Baynes accepted when he signed an NBA contract.

[Spurs Brazil]

Is there a deadline for Baynes to accept the qualifying offer?

[Chinook]

Is there a deadline for Baynes to accept the qualifying offer?

The Spurs can withdraw the offer on the first.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Ayers is making near 2 mil this year correct?
Aron > Ayers

Therefore, he is definitely worth 2 million.

Just sign the man.

The reason the Spurs won't pay is because they don't have to. They are not in the business of giving "goodwill" money to end-of-the-benchers. When they sign someone to a contract and then their production fades they don't get to take back any money. Everyone knows it is a business. Baynes has no incentive to sign the QO until the last day. Since the Spurs are evidently open to a sign-and-trade for Baynes the agent would serve Baynes well by finding a team with redundant small forwards making a salary that would get Baynes the deal he wants. The Spurs would probably be very open to paying a serviceable back up forward $2 million as opposed to Baynes.

[ceperez]

Also Blatche.

I guess he hasn't signed with the Miami Heat yet.

[jeebus]

Ayers is making near 2 mil this year correct?
Aron > Ayers

Therefore, he is definitely worth 2 million.

Just sign the man.
Errors is making a bit over 1.8 million this year, which is mind numbingly stupid. throw in the milion or so that Daye is making and that's $3 million that the spurs are literally burning in a barrel.

As Duncan/Splitter injury and rest insurance and the fact that he was actually productive in the playoffs (I don't think he would've been scared of Blair in the playoffs), I think he's worth the money. And if he actually got regular minutes during the season instead of Penderfag, I think he would develop even more. But no...spurs wanna sign and trade him so they can continue sucking off Errors, Daye, and Boner

[spurraider21]

He was an unrestricted FA.
who did the spurs bid against to acquire Ayres? its not like he got vet min

[spurraider21]

Errors is making a bit over 1.8 million this year, which is mind numbingly stupid. throw in the milion or so that Daye is making and that's $3 million that the spurs are literally burning in a barrel.

As Duncan/Splitter injury and rest insurance and the fact that he was actually productive in the playoffs (I don't think he would've been scared of Blair in the playoffs), I think he's worth the money. And if he actually got regular minutes during the season instead of Penderfag, I think he would develop even more. But no...spurs wanna sign and trade him so they can continue sucking off Errors, Daye, and Boner
:lol they could have been off the hook from a majority of Daye's contract but they kept him to see him suck in summer league

[wildcardX]

Baynes has helped the Spurs in the playoffs a few times, most memorable for me was against OKC this year and LA last year. He brings toughness into the game, his hard screens (which free up the offense), boxing guys out, battling in the post making scoring hard, he's the type of guy to drain the other team of energy.

Plus he looks like he's got a lot of potential, his shots look GOOD, even his jumper looks decent, it's a matter of him getting more playing time, confidence, and experience. When that happens I think SA will have another gem.

I don't know how much more of a upside Baynes does have but he is a serviceable big man for limited minutes. I much rather see him replace Duncan on his rest days or Splitter/Diaw should they get injured than putting Ayres, Daye, and Bonner in that rotation. I won't mind if the Spurs go after another big man like Ayon but Baynes has a year under the Spurs system and would rather have him out there, unless the big man they sign is a lot better than Baynes. If they do bring in someone new, it may take him the year to learn the system and he may not be any use really this year.

[DJR210]

So at one point does Baynes officially part ways with the team other than somebody sign him or him sign here?

[jeebus]

:lol they could have been off the hook from a majority of Daye's contract but they kept him to see him suck in summer league

Picture Pop and RC, sucking off Boner and drinking wine.

"Man, these guys are great. Errors claps whenever he drops the ball, Daye still only shows up against the worst teams who don't want to defend him. Exstatic must be blowing loads.."

[exstatic]

Some of you people have very bright futures with the Knicks front office...

[TD 21]

I understand "the nature of the business". But he's a legitimate 7 footer, he doesn't have a Thabeet-type of personality, and physically, he can do some things against certain matchups that were useful for the Spurs. Even if he was the 5th big on the team (and I legitimately would place him as the 4th big when the playoffs rolled around), I thought he was an asset.

I know the Spurs don't have to offer a cent more, but if you ask me if he's worth $2m, I do think he's worth $2m. At least for another season. If he's asking for a longer-term deal and what not, then things would be different.

No, he's not. I remember hearing when they signed him that he's 6-10.5 barefoot, but the truth is, he's lucky if he's that in shoes. Duncan was towering over him in the Western Conference championship presentation.

I doubt any of the four candidates for fourth big claim the spot outright, since there's little separation among them and it all depends on whether they can play Duncan and Splitter together. If they can, they'll need a backup center. If they can't, they'll need a backup power forward.


Here's why Ayres got what he got and why the Spurs are unwilling to give Baynes more . . .

1) Ayres was a UFA, not an RFA and given that they signed him via the non-taxpayer MLE, we know they weren't bidding against themselves, as they would be by giving Baynes $2M.

2) Ayres was closer to a more proven commodity and despite the limited sample size, it wasn't unreasonable to think he was on the verge of establishing himself as a fourth big. There's nothing to suggest Baynes is.

3) Since Blair was gone and Baynes was virtually completely unproven, they needed another big. They no longer do.

[ElNono]

:lol

It was a simple question. In the absence of any actual offer superior to the QO, should the Spurs increase their offer to Baynes?

You posit a scenario in which in can easily get a superior offer.

I'm convinced he can get a superior offer somewhere else. Legitimate 7 footers are a premium, and if Nando can cash in his 2 year NBA experience for $2m a season in Europe, then I don't see why Baynes couldn't, especially now that his stock is high.
Sorry, I'm not avoiding your premise, I'm just not buying it.

The question is, if he doesn't sign the QO, does he just becomes a free agent? Anybody can pick him up?

[Mel_13]

I'm convinced he can get a superior offer somewhere else. Legitimate 7 footers are a premium, and if Nando can cash in his 2 year NBA experience for $2m a season in Europe, then I don't see why Baynes couldn't, especially now that his stock is high.
Sorry, I'm not avoiding your premise, I'm just not buying it.

The question is, if he doesn't sign the QO, does he just becomes a free agent? Anybody can pick him up?

:lol

Of course you're avoiding it.

As to your question, the QO expires on October 1st unless the Spurs choose to extend it, which they almost certainly will not. At that point he remains a restricted free agent unless the Spurs renounce their right of first refusal.

[ElNono]

No, he's not. I remember hearing when they signed him that he's 6-10.5 barefoot, but the truth is, he's lucky if he's that in shoes. Duncan was towering over him in the Western Conference championship presentation.

He's a legit center with in a known quantity. We threw him out there against Dwight, and he responded. We threw him out there against Lopez, and he gave us solid minutes. He matches up well against other 7 footers.

I told you before the playoffs started that Baynes was going to be the 4th big, and he largely was. When Tiago gets in foul trouble, and we need an actual big, that's our guy. Ayres or Bonner just don't match up well against other tall centers.

[ElNono]

:lol

Of course you're avoiding it.

As to your question, the QO expires on October 1st unless the Spurs choose to extend it, which they almost certainly will not. At that point he remains a restricted free agent unless the Spurs renounce their right of first refusal.

:lol sorry Mel, not avoiding it. I don't think the Spurs should offer a cent more unless there's an actual possibility he might bolt. I suspect that possibility is real. Pure speculation, obviously.

So by becoming a RFA, he basically fast-forwards his situation one year. Thanks.

[benefactor]

Prediction...Bayes will realize there is no market for him. He takes the QO and is with the Spurs before the first of the month.

[Mel_13]

So by becoming a RFA, he basically fast-forwards his situation one year. Thanks.

He is an RFA now and will remain an RFA after October 1st if he remains unsigned. I'm not sure what you mean by fast-forwarding his situation.

Part of the problem for Baynes is that if he signs a one year deal, he'll be an RFA again next summer. If he goes to Europe next season, he'll be an RFA if he wants to come back to the NBA. Restricted free agency generally sucks for the players, but they have Billy Hunter to thank for that.

[TD 21]

He's a legit center with in a known quantity. We threw him out there against Dwight, and he responded. We threw him out there against Lopez, and he gave us solid minutes. He matches up well against other 7 footers.

I told you before the playoffs started that Baynes was going to be the 4th big, and he largely was. When Tiago gets in foul trouble, and we need an actual big, that's our guy. Ayres or Bonner just don't match up well against other tall centers.

But not a legit 7 foot one. He played well in game one against the Trail Blazers and people wet their pants and acted as if that encompassed the entire playoffs. Overall, his playoff numbers were still poor though.

He was only the fourth big when they could get away with playing Duncan and Splitter together. When they couldn't, Bonner was.

Look, he's fine as a third center, particularly when the top two are of the quality of Duncan and Splitter. But what Ayres has going for him that Baynes doesn't is, he already has a contract and they have two starting centers, plus three power forwards. If it were the other way around, I'd be saying the same things about Ayres.

[exstatic]

:lol sorry Mel, not avoiding it. I don't think the Spurs should offer a cent more unless there's an actual possibility he might bolt. I suspect that possibility is real. Pure speculation, obviously.

So by becoming a RFA, he basically fast-forwards his situation one year. Thanks.

If the Spurs pull the QO, nothing changes except their responsibility to pay him a guaranteed deal this season. If he signs an offer sheet, they can still match. If they ultimately offer him some kind of one year contract, he's STILL a RFA next year. If he goes overseas, he's still their asset, and would be matchable if he were to want to come back to the NBA.

[ElNono]

He is an RFA now and will remain an RFA after October 1st if he remains unsigned. I'm not sure what you mean by fast-forwarding his situation.

Part of the problem for Baynes is that if he signs a one year deal, he'll be an RFA again next summer. If he goes to Europe next season, he'll be an RFA if he wants to come back to the NBA. Restricted free agency generally sucks for the players, but they have Billy Hunter to thank for that.


If the Spurs pull the QO, nothing changes except their responsibility to pay him a guaranteed deal this season. If he signs an offer sheet, they can still match. If they ultimately offer him some kind of one year contract, he's STILL a RFA next year. If he goes overseas, he's still their asset, and would be matchable if he were to want to come back to the NBA.

Thanks, I got things mixed up. Makes sense.

[ElNono]

But not a legit 7 foot one. He played well in game one against the Trail Blazers and people wet their pants and acted as if that encompassed the entire playoffs. Overall, his playoff numbers were still poor though.

He was only the fourth big when they could get away with playing Duncan and Splitter together. When they couldn't, Bonner was.

Look, he's fine as a third center, particularly when the top two are of the quality of Duncan and Splitter. But what Ayres has going for him that Baynes doesn't is, he already has a contract and they have two starting centers, plus three power forwards. If it were the other way around, I'd be saying the same things about Ayres.

I get your point. I do understand that Ayres having a contract makes him expendable. I would add he gave us solid minutes against the Lakers the previous playoffs, and he gave us solid minutes against OKC in the WCF these playoffs too.

IMO, it's not about wetting pants, he's a marginal talent after all. It's about the versatility of having a big man that matches up well against tall, physical centers. Tiago normally takes on that role, but when he's in foul trouble, that's Baynes. Neither Bonner or Ayers fit that bill. Bonner's role is completely different, he's a floor spacer, he's a natural backup to Boris. We're talking $2m for marginal talent that's a good fit for our roster. If it's more than $2m or more than one year, then sure, the equation changes.

It's not like the Spurs are tiptoeing the luxury tax or anything like that. I also think, in a vacuum, he would be more valuable than Ayres or Daye.

[BackHome]

Get rid of Errors and Austin and sign the boy!

[TD 21]

I get your point. I do understand that Ayres having a contract makes him expendable. I would add he gave us solid minutes against the Lakers the previous playoffs, and he gave us solid minutes against OKC in the WCF these playoffs too.

IMO, it's not about wetting pants, he's a marginal talent after all. It's about the versatility of having a big man that matches up well against tall, physical centers. Tiago normally takes on that role, but when he's in foul trouble, that's Baynes. Neither Bonner or Ayers fit that bill. Bonner's role is completely different, he's a floor spacer, he's a natural backup to Boris. We're talking $2m for marginal talent that's a good fit for our roster. If it's more than $2m or more than one year, then sure, the equation changes.

It's not like the Spurs are tiptoeing the luxury tax or anything like that. I also think, in a vacuum, he would be more valuable than Ayres or Daye.

Duncan and Splitter are going to play the vast majority of meaningful minutes (and even more in the playoffs, obviously) against those and every other kind of center, though. If they need a third center for five mpg against Howard or whoever you want to name, in the playoffs, whether it's Ayres or Baynes isn't going to make a difference. You act like Ayres is Daye when it comes to strength.

It's not about the money, so much as it is the principal. You don't bid against yourself, especially for minimal talent, who's similar to a player already under contract.

[anakha]

I told you before the playoffs started that Baynes was going to be the 4th big, and he largely was.

According to BBR, Baynes was the 4th big only in MPG (and the difference between Bonner and him was literally only 1 MPG). Bonner played in more games during the playoffs and logged more minutes total.

[superbigtime]

Spurs are going to play it cool. He'll either be signed at or close to QO or go somewhere else, who knows maybe Europe.

[ElNono]

Duncan and Splitter are going to play the vast majority of meaningful minutes (and even more in the playoffs, obviously) against those and every other kind of center, though. If they need a third center for five mpg against Howard or whoever you want to name, in the playoffs, whether it's Ayres or Baynes isn't going to make a difference. You act like Ayres is Daye when it comes to strength.

It's not about the money, so much as it is the principal. You don't bid against yourself, especially for minimal talent, who's similar to a player already under contract.

Pop has been actually trying to get Tim away from having to deal with the grind of matching up with physical centers. That's Tiago's job. Sure, Tim can do it, but you want to avoid him spending energy on that end.

About the money/principle, that's why I said "I understand the nature of the business". I understand the Spurs are on the driver's seat in this negotiation and they don't have to offer a single extra dime. I'm just saying that, in a vacuum, Baynes is worth $2m (for our team, I don't know the equation works as well for other teams).


According to BBR, Baynes was the 4th big only in MPG (and the difference between Bonner and him was literally only 1 MPG). Bonner played in more games during the playoffs and logged more minutes total.

That's because Pop eventually went with the "starting Bonner" gimmick after Game 4 of the WCF. They have very distinct roles. Bonner plays because Pop thinks he's a mismatch against shot blockers with limited inside offense (Ibaka/Birdman), Baynes plays largely to match up with sturdy centers (Dwight/Lopez/Adams).

Both matchups are fine with me, and we still have Bonner (and Diaw, which IMO fills up Bonner's role even better). But against teams like the Rockets or the Blazers, Baynes value becomes much more apparent, especially when Tiago is in foul trouble.

[TheyCallMePro]

Baynes is clunky on both ends. He can get physical with other bigs, but that's pretty much it. Sometimes all it takes is for Baynes to stand in front of a jump shooting Aldridge, but otherwise he's a liability on D and on offense he just struggles outside of 2 feet, both with his shot andt his ball handling.

If we lose him, good riddance. If we don't, whatever. But 2 mil a year is NOTHING for a decent big man, which Baynes absolutely is considering the god-awful pool of big men currently in the NBA.

[spurraider21]

He is an RFA now and will remain an RFA after October 1st if he remains unsigned. I'm not sure what you mean by fast-forwarding his situation.

Part of the problem for Baynes is that if he signs a one year deal, he'll be an RFA again next summer. If he goes to Europe next season, he'll be an RFA if he wants to come back to the NBA. Restricted free agency generally sucks for the players, but they have Billy Hunter to thank for that.
he hasn't even gotten an offer. its not like if he was unrestricted he'd have significantly more offers :lol. RFA's worthy of contracts tend to get contracts if they want them.

I also think, in a vacuum, he would be more valuable than Ayres or Daye.
Vacuum, basketball arena, etc. etc.

[ElNono]

Vacuum, basketball arena, etc. etc.

:wakeup

[mudyez]

Holy shit, we won a ship, kept Mills, signed Diaw, may have gotten a nice Rookie, got one of the best Euro coaches, own the first female NBA coach.
And now we have a 4 site post about our 5th big which won't make a difference anyway.

Not that I'm not guilty of that too (my reason beeing the nostalgic thought of bringing 100% of the champs back). :)

[313]

Errors is making a bit over 1.8 million this year, which is mind numbingly stupid. throw in the milion or so that Daye is making and that's $3 million that the spurs are literally burning in a barrel.

As Duncan/Splitter injury and rest insurance and the fact that he was actually productive in the playoffs (I don't think he would've been scared of Blair in the playoffs), I think he's worth the money. And if he actually got regular minutes during the season instead of Penderfag, I think he would develop even more. But no...spurs wanna sign and trade him so they can continue sucking off Errors, Daye, and Boner

B-b-but we have the best FO in the league

[ChumpDumper]

B-b-but we have the best FO in the leagueWhich one is better?

[313]

Which one is better?
I was kidding :lol even on our worst days, our front office does more with less.

[ChumpDumper]

I think the Spurs would like to keep Baynes if possible but a lot of it depends on Duncan IMO. If they knew Duncan plans to retire after this coming season, they would probably be much hotter on keeping Baynes and less worried about what to pay him. If Duncan stays on, even at a reduced price, cap space becomes much more of an issue so they have to act as if Duncan will be back at this point. I think they would be fine with Baynes' taking the QO and kick the can down the road until Duncan makes up his mind. They might be just as happy to sign someone like Ayon if they are willing to sign a one-year deal.

[illusioNtEk]

in Baynes is smart.... he would stick with the spurs till Timmy retires then we can pay him what he wants.

To bad his agent sucks to realize this

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He is an RFA now and will remain an RFA after October 1st if he remains unsigned. I'm not sure what you mean by fast-forwarding his situation.

Part of the problem for Baynes is that if he signs a one year deal, he'll be an RFA again next summer. If he goes to Europe next season, he'll be an RFA if he wants to come back to the NBA. Restricted free agency generally sucks for the players, but they have Billy Hunter to thank for that.

4 years of control is pretty universal in leagues without an antitrust exemption.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

he hasn't even gotten an offer. its not like if he was unrestricted he'd have significantly more offers :lol. RFA's worthy of contracts tend to get contracts if they want them.

Vacuum, basketball arena, etc. etc.

How do you know what offers he has or has not had? It's not like all negotiations are done via twitter and ESPN.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd pay him $2MM. I like having a Will Perdue/Kevin Willis enforcer on the roster. Baynes is a big body to throw in to tire out the other team's big man.

That said, the Spurs will sign him for less I think.

[TD 21]

Pop has been actually trying to get Tim away from having to deal with the grind of matching up with physical centers. That's Tiago's job. Sure, Tim can do it, but you want to avoid him spending energy on that end.

About the money/principle, that's why I said "I understand the nature of the business". I understand the Spurs are on the driver's seat in this negotiation and they don't have to offer a single extra dime. I'm just saying that, in a vacuum, Baynes is worth $2m (for our team, I don't know the equation works as well for other teams).

No, it isn't. It's Splitter's job to guard stretch/mobile power forwards. Duncan is the primary defender against low post centers and though he can occasionally be physically overwhelmed (mainly due to his weight loss in recent seasons), he's still among the best straight up low post defenders in the league.

Diaw did struggle mightily guarding Aldridge, but despite that, Baynes never defended him. He is useful against Howard, but like I said, if they play the Rockets in a series, Duncan and Splitter (in that order) will get the Howard assignment and if they have to buy a few minutes here or there with Diaw or Ayres on him, so be it. That's not going to decide the series.

[Chomag]

2 mil is a bit high but it does seem fair, especialy with the amount of money Errors is getting. Wouldnt you not want more then errors?

But yea keeping Errors glued to the bench is worth 2 mil imo

[ChumpDumper]

2 mil is a bit high but it does seem fair, especialy with the amount of money Errors is getting. Wouldnt you not want more then errors?

But yea keeping Errors glued to the bench is worth 2 mil imoWhat makes you think Ayers is going to be glued to the bench all season?

[jeebus]

But yea keeping Errors glued to the bench is worth 2 mil imo
Common sense says due to his extremely poor season and even shittier summer league showing, he wouldn't get any playing time. But we all know Pop is going to play his pathetic retarded ass because of some favor he owes Boylen.

[exstatic]

Common sense says due to his extremely poor season and even shittier summer league showing, he wouldn't get any playing time. But we all know Pop is going to play his pathetic retarded ass because of some favor he owes Boylen.

Bashes Ayres but reps one of the biggest pussies/underperformers in the NFL in his avi. Go figure.

[ChumpDumper]

lol "common sense"

[look_at_g_shred]

How is he not?

[Uriel]

Who cares? Baynes is what is known as a 'replacement level player'. If the Spurs can take a 26 YO undrafted Aussie and turn him into an NBA roster player, there probably is 50 guys out there they can do that with. There is nothing special, basketball-wise, about Aron Baynes.
Baynes has made tremendous strides this offseason, as was clearly on display in the FIBA World Cup. There's a reason why the Spurs are so "determined" to re-sign him--he's gotten that much better. Given all that, what is an extra $900K to the Spurs' front office when we're millions below the luxury tax?

Besides, would you rather have Errors taking 4th big minutes in the regular season rotation?

[ElNono]

Diaw did struggle mightily guarding Aldridge, but despite that, Baynes never defended him. He is useful against Howard, but like I said, if they play the Rockets in a series, Duncan and Splitter (in that order) will get the Howard assignment and if they have to buy a few minutes here or there with Diaw or Ayres on him, so be it. That's not going to decide the series.

Baynes defended Lopez, he matched up well against him. You're overlooking that those teams will play those guys 40+ mpg, and when you get one of Tim or Tiago in foul trouble, you're going to need a fallback guy. That's the reason Baynes received minutes in the playoffs at all. You could throw Diaw, Ayres and Bonner at them, and you'll be right back at Spurs circa 2011: red carpet under the rim. You could argue it might just cost you a single game in a series, but is $2m insurance that high a price to pay?

To Dwight and Lopez you gotta tack on Marc Gasol, ZBo, Adams, etc... Now, I understand he's not a 'key' piece. He's just a luxury to have as insurance. I just think he would be more useful to us than, say, Daye...

[ElNono]

Ayres is a regular season minute burner, much like Blair was, and thus, he's going to play a lot of regular season minutes. That's his role and we managed to win 60+ games last season 'despite' him, so don't expect that to really change. The real season starts in the playoffs, and unless Ayres shows some major improvement, I doubt he'll be part of that rotation.

[exstatic]

Baynes has made tremendous strides this offseason, as was clearly on display in the FIBA World Cup. There's a reason why the Spurs are so "determined" to re-sign him--he's gotten that much better. Given all that, what is an extra $900K to the Spurs' front office when we're millions below the luxury tax?

Besides, would you rather have Errors taking 4th big minutes in the regular season rotation?

FIBA ball is fool's gold in this case. Their rules/refs allow a LOT more contact and banging in the paint.

[TD 21]

Baynes defended Lopez, he matched up well against him. You're overlooking that those teams will play those guys 40+ mpg, and when you get one of Tim or Tiago in foul trouble, you're going to need a fallback guy. That's the reason Baynes received minutes in the playoffs at all. You could throw Diaw, Ayres and Bonner at them, and you'll be right back at Spurs circa 2011: red carpet under the rim. You could argue it might just cost you a single game in a series, but is $2m insurance that high a price to pay?

To Dwight and Lopez you gotta tack on Marc Gasol, ZBo, Adams, etc... Now, I understand he's not a 'key' piece. He's just a luxury to have as insurance. I just think he would be more useful to us than, say, Daye...

:lol As if Lopez is his brother and as if he plays 40+ mpg at any time. Like I said, they have fallback guys. I don't know why you seem to think Ayres lacks strength. Any way you slice it, Ayres and Baynes are redundant.

M. Gasol is an overrated pussy, that routinely allows teams to get away with defenders on him who he should punish. The Spurs got away with Diaw defending him down the stretch of a game two seasons ago.

Randolph isn't nearly the threat he was since his knee injury a couple of years back and is the rare big any of the Spurs bigs (with the exception of Daye) could conceivably guard in stretches.

:rollinAdams, a lesser version of the lesser Lopez.

Daye, like Ayres has a contract and on a team with three centers, offers more balance.

[BackHome]

What makes you think Ayers is going to be glued to the bench all season?

Cause He Sucks...

[ChumpDumper]

Cause He Sucks...Why?

[exstatic]

Cause He Sucks...

Pop must be a bad coach, then. Ayres played 20 more games and damn near double the minutes last year.

[Random5843]

He's worth at least 2 Ayers. So, 4 million?

[ElNono]

:lol As if Lopez is his brother and as if he plays 40+ mpg at any time. Like I said, they have fallback guys. I don't know why you seem to think Ayres lacks strength. Any way you slice it, Ayres and Baynes are redundant.
...
Daye, like Ayres has a contract and on a team with three centers, offers more balance.

Well, we certainly disagree. Outside of garbage time, I never, ever would like to see Ayres or Daye in a playoff game for the Spurs (at least with what they've shown so far). Baynes, in spot minutes, he's done it, and done it well. As I said, known quantity.

[Baynes]

people acting like Baynes is asking for huge numbers lol. That's $2M a year. Very low considering Baynes strengths and potential

[SupremeGuy]

Why?You didn't watch any games last year?

[ChumpDumper]

You didn't watch any games last year?I did.

So why?

[SupremeGuy]

Cause he sucks...

[ChumpDumper]

Cause he sucks...Hey, circular reasoning. :tu

lol SpursTalk

[jeebus]

Cause he sucks...
It's like talking to a 5 year old, isn't it?

[ChumpDumper]

It's like talking to a 5 year old, isn't it?You're like a room full of them tbh.

Now stamp your feet and pout.

[SupremeGuy]

If someone needs to explain to you why Errors sucks, then no one can help you, tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

Now stamp your feet and pout.


If someone needs to explain to you why Errors sucks, then no one can help you, tbh.lol

[Sean Cagney]

If someone needs to explain to you why Errors sucks, then no one can help you, tbh.

Dead on.

[pgardn]

I just want Baynes signed.

The season is so long. We need to sit Duncan for series of games. We know Baynes, he knows what we need from him.
He is a guy who can help alleviate wear and tear on Duncan, Diaw and Splitter. The familiarity factor is very important as well. Just sign him.

[ChumpDumper]

Now stamp your feet and pout.


Dead on.

[ismael-robert]

Give him 1.9 million which is closer to the 1.5 mil euros he wanted and call it a day...everyone's happy

[exstatic]

Give him 1.9 million which is closer to the 1.5 mil euros he wanted and call it a day...everyone's happy

If your electric bill is $200, do you send them $300? Why do you want the Spurs to bid against themselves when they're holding 4 aces?

[wildcardX]

Maybe it's old school thinking that a team should have one big physical player that's difficult to bully in the paint(even if he doesn't get much minutes). I know the game is changing from that but it's still difficult to let those type of guys go. Maybe it would be better for the Spurs to go after another SF to back up Kawhi.

[SupremeGuy]

To make sure we keep Baynes from going to Europe...

[ismael-robert]

I guess just to appease the guy n reward him for great summer n get this dang waiting game to end...employee appreciation, make guy feel valued

[exstatic]

I guess just to appease the guy n reward him for great summer n get this dang waiting game to end...employee appreciation, make guy feel valued

Almost DOUBLE his offer to 'appease' him? If he even needs 'appeasing', he's probably not Spurs material.

The wait is now working against him. If he lets it go to the first of October, SA can pull the offer, but he's still restricted. No other NBA team was willing to sign him to an offer sheet. A bit of patience will bring this to an end, one way or another.

[ismael-robert]

He's human. We have egos. Make the guy feel like he's worth more than scraps that's all. You take care of ur peeps they take care of you. Spurs media day is 26th...maybe yet another get off the pot or we're starting without you move? So this actually needs resolution by then.

[Nero5]

yep great thinking and to paraphrase: 'we have lots of money, everyone knows we have lots of money, we've nullified your market appeal with an offer that everyone knows about, it doesn't metter that you had a great summer and stayed in touch because...tadaa! we hold all the aces! BOOM!" strutts around the room looking like a right smug wanker.

jeesus it's like watching a kid at a special school try to work out how a doorknob works.

He fulfills a role that so one else at his pay scale on the squad can do or others so far worked out can do even at $2 million, he has good chemistry with the other guys, he works hard, stays out of trouble, is respectful of the organisation, is health and fairly rugged, clearly works with the coach and has been improving. OK he's no all star but if splitter has a slump or injury for 6-8 weeks are you going to sit of your arse looking at the TV and say 'thank god we saved $500,000 and didn't get baynes'.
An injury to Duncan and splitter without coverage is worth how much?
That's the regular season.
Playoffs - Portland/OKC etc and a seven games series. Duncan/splitter had to work their arse off banging all season, little rest and then have a seven game series ... oh wait, yay! we saved $500,000 on Baynes! Yay! Let's pu in our defensive god errors!

[ismael-robert]

An ego isn't necessarily a good thing but to have your boss spit on your ego just hurts...even if u are a big banger

[ChumpDumper]

Man, spurfan can't help but read way too much into every situation.

[exstatic]

The drama, cliff jumping and imaginary deadlines are getting very entertaining. The only deadline isn't media day, its 1 October, and on that date, Aron will find himself on the outside looking in.

The Spurs plucked him from overseas, a 26 YO never drafted big guy, who NEVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A SHOT IN THE NBA WITHOUT A BRET BROWN CONNECTION. He brings a little no-skill banging to the table. Guess what? The Spurs can, and I assure you, WILL find someone else to carry that water. They find guys, over and over again. Filling the #13 or 14 spot on the roster isn't rocket science. Finding a guy who can set a pick, roll to the hoop, and grab some boards for minimum isn't like finding the Hope Diamond. There is more than one out there, many more than one.

[Mikeanaro]

PAY HIM!!!! Sell assets but get this guy! PAY HIM!!!

[exstatic]

PAY HIM!!!! Sell assets but get this guy! PAY HIM!!!

They're trying!!! He won't fucking sign the paper!!!

:lol:rollin

[bluebellmaniac]

I don't think $18M over 4 years is over valuing Baynes... Pull the trigger Pop!

[Mikeanaro]

They're trying!!! He won't fucking sign the paper!!!

:lol:rollin

:lmao

[illusioNtEk]

Spurs can maybe offer 1.5 mill and promise to resign him to a bigger contract next year when Tim retires.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs can maybe offer 1.5 mill and promise to resign him to a bigger contract next year when Tim retires.

1. He won't sign for 1.5 mil for one year because he'll be a RFA again next summer
2. They can't promise him shit
3. Tim isn't retiring next year

[Nero5]

The drama, cliff jumping and imaginary deadlines are getting very entertaining. The only deadline isn't media day, its 1 October, and on that date, Aron will find himself on the outside looking in.

The Spurs plucked him from overseas, a 26 YO never drafted big guy, who NEVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A SHOT IN THE NBA WITHOUT A BRET BROWN CONNECTION. He brings a little no-skill banging to the table. Guess what? The Spurs can, and I assure you, WILL find someone else to carry that water. They find guys, over and over again. Filling the #13 or 14 spot on the roster isn't rocket science. Finding a guy who can set a pick, roll to the hoop, and grab some boards for minimum isn't like finding the Hope Diamond. There is more than one out there, many more than one.

sure...they've worked out a whole heap of them and that has worked so well so far.
I think that for you this thread and discussion has become more about whether your opinion is right or not.
Baynes has value and in some situations that has been very valuable for the Spurs. Spurs have made an minimal offer of less than half of the red rocket, baynes has countered that within the rules set by the NBA, we will see what happens in due course.

[exstatic]

sure...they've worked out a whole heap of them and that has worked so well so far.
I think that for you this thread and discussion has become more about whether your opinion is right or not.
Baynes has value and in some situations that has been very valuable for the Spurs. Spurs have made an minimal offer of less than half of the red rocket, baynes has countered that within the rules set by the NBA, we will see what happens in due course.

Matt Bonner has signed for $900K next year, with no drama and taking a large pay cut, because he decided he wants to stay in SA. Spurs just waiting for Baynes to decide that HE wants to remain, and sign his $1.1M offer. He can counter for $2M or $10M. It doesn't matter. Spurs won't come off their qualifying offer because they don't have to. If he keeps this going to 1 October, they'll pull their offer and move on.

Yes, I have an opinion, and it's an informed one based on 15 years of watching the Spurs deal with stars, near stars, starters, role players, and marginal end of bench players. It is not based on wishful thinking and ideas of "fairness". They treat each group very differently.

[littlecoyotecoin]

sure...they've worked out a whole heap of them and that has worked so well so far.
I think that for you this thread and discussion has become more about whether your opinion is right or not.
Baynes has value and in some situations that has been very valuable for the Spurs. Spurs have made an minimal offer of less than half of the red rocket, baynes has countered that within the rules set by the NBA, we will see what happens in due course.

The implication that them "working out a whole heap of them" has been some sort of failure is absurd. 1) They've actually offered Ayon a deal, presumably contingent on Baynes not signing October first, as an outcome of these workouts and this search process you're denigrating. 2) He declined, and it isn't customary to offer multiple dudes a deal for a spot that is already spoken for, so they'll refocus on the next dude given Ayon signing with Madrid, while waiting on 10/1 to arrive. 3) these workouts are standard practice. Par for the course. I guess they fail every year because they workout a bunch of guys every year that they don't sign. Or, maybe it's just due dilligence, scouting, and good contingency planning and investing? 4) As Exstatic points out, Baynes was plucked from obscurity for cheap, and there is no reason to believe that The Spurs don't have their eye on a couple, or even a handfull of other prospects that they would like to explore by having them on the end of the bench. I like Baynes for his role, but it's not a complicated one. If they aren't afraid of losing him to a pay increase, I can't be too afraid of it, either. I like Daye's upside potential, but it's based on what we've got him for, which is next to nothing, and for one year - unless he somehow breaks out. If he contributes as little as Baynes did, and asks for double the money, I would have to politely show him the door, too. Next year. Baynes is a known commodity, and The Spurs just don't value that commodity as high as Baynes does. He got a 41% raise. If he wants a bigger raise than that he's got to bring some offers to the table. It's pretty simple. I would like to have him back just because he's familiar with the system, good in certain matchups, but he's not got much more upside than we've seen, and he is replaceable. And he and Ayers are somewhat redundant except for guarding a Howard. Spurs don't seem too worried about him guarding Howard.

[TD 21]

Well, we certainly disagree. Outside of garbage time, I never, ever would like to see Ayres or Daye in a playoff game for the Spurs (at least with what they've shown so far). Baynes, in spot minutes, he's done it, and done it well. As I said, known quantity.

Neither would I. What I'm saying is, if spot minutes in certain match-ups go from Baynes to Ayres, it's not going to make a difference.

[ElNono]

Neither would I. What I'm saying is, if spot minutes in certain match-ups go from Baynes to Ayres, it's not going to make a difference.

Well, all I'm saying is, why risk it over $900k?

[TD 21]

Well, all I'm saying is, why risk it over $900k?

Like I said, it's about logic, the principal and the fact that, at least positionally (even if you want to claim there's a marked difference between him and Ayres), they don't need him.

If, by the highly unlikely chance they do at some point, they can sign him when his season ends in Europe or China or sign a player of similar ilk.

[Galileo]

Baynes is worth $ 2 million and in a year or two will be worth a lot more than that.

[ElNono]

Like I said, it's about the principal and the fact that, at least positionally (even if you want to claim there's a marked difference between him and Ayres), they don't need him.

It's 'principle', and if the team deemed both to be useful last season, I don't see anything that says such assessment has changed. If anything, the Spurs have said they would want him back.

[littlecoyotecoin]

It's 'principle', and if the team deemed both to be useful last season, I don't see anything that says such assessment has changed. If anything, the Spurs have said they would want him back.

Yes, they want him back so badly and need him so desperately, they've let it be known they'd be interested in possible sign and trade deals. They value him greatly.

[TD 21]

It's 'principle', and if the team deemed both to be useful last season, I don't see anything that says such assessment has changed. If anything, the Spurs have said they would want him back.

Yeah, I know. I never said I was perfect . . . but I am damn close.

As I said, they wanted something closer to a more proven commodity than Baynes last season. Also, they clearly thought Ayres was a more versatile player than he showed. Buford specifically mentioned his 18 footer, meaning they thought he could credibly play both big positions. They found out that wasn't the case, which made him redundant with Baynes.

Sure, he provides competition for Ayres, but I think they want (wanted?) him back more for chemistry and continuity purposes than anything.

[exstatic]

Yes, they want him back so badly and need him so desperately, they've let it be known they'd be interested in possible sign and trade deals. They value him greatly.

Exactly. There's nothing that says a player has "jumped the shark" with a team like being offered on the trade market.

I think they wanted him back...right up to the point where he showcases himself at the WC, his team is eliminated, the WC ends, and he STILL won't sign that fucking QO.

[ElNono]

Yes, they want him back so badly and need him so desperately, they've let it be known they'd be interested in possible sign and trade deals. They value him greatly.

The only thing we know for sure is that the Spurs tendered him a QO. They don't offer a contract to a player they don't want back.

[Chinook]

The only thing we know for sure is that the Spurs tendered him a QO. They don't offer a contract to a player they don't want back.

They did so with Neal last year. They wouldn't tender a player whom they wanted back under no circumstances, but they certainly wouldn't let an asset go to waste if they didn't have to.

[ElNono]

They did so with Neal last year. They wouldn't tender a player whom they wanted back under no circumstances, but they certainly wouldn't let an asset go to waste if they didn't have to.

I thought they wanted Neal back too, at a certain price.

[exstatic]

I thought they wanted Neal back too, at a certain price.

The "wanting back" part was qualified, just like with Baynes.

[ElNono]

The "wanting back" part was qualified, just like with Baynes.

I just think Neal was much more expendable than Baynes (my opinion, obviously). I wouldn't want the Spurs to break the bank on Aron, but $2m? He's worth that (again, just my opinion).

[littlecoyotecoin]

Nono, you like to talk about what we know for sure (earlier post), but not in this case? We don't know for sure that he's worth 2 million. We know for sure he's worth 1.1 million because that is currently what someone is willing to pay. Baynes and you think he's worth 2, but you guys aren't writing any checks. Again, he's been given a raise, if he wants a windfall, that's up to him and his agent. That's what free agency is all about. I much rather they put Baynes in the hot seat to save a million and not play hardball with Kawhi, etc. If they save a million here and there over the years it adds up to real money that they can give to players that we can't live without. We would like to have him back, but we can live without him. I don't think most of us care if they pay him 2 million, but only if there is a serious offer from someone else. It's been mentioned over and over, but why bid against yourself, and why start a negotiation at your extreme offer? It usually doesn't work that way for me, but I don't deal with such large numbers. Maybe the art of negotiation is different for you and you find bidding against yourself and starting at your extreme price a successful strategy. (I am assuming that The Spurs wouldn't be interested in him for much more than that.) But, I find that when I bid against myself I get buyer's remorse in addition to lost profit, and when I start at my extreme, I lose deals because the other party never takes me at my word that max means max or min means min, instead interpreting my offer as weakness or beginning for negotiation, then when they counter my max/min, and I refuse to go higher/lower, they see me as being recalcitrant and unwilling to negotiate. What The Spurs have done is just fine. Offered him a raise, and said that if he gets any other offers they would be interested in trying to be competetive with those offers, to a point. A maxim that I have found very useful is this: "The first person to give a number loses." As with all maxims, it's not perfect, but this one has been helpful to me on more occasions than any other I can remember. So, when I am forced to name a number first, as sometimes it can't be avoided, I always name as ridiculous a number I can that will still be in the realm of negotiation. Essentially, I attempt to follow the maxim, still. Give a number without giving a number. (Let's get in that boat and fight on that island over there.) You attempt to elicit a response from the other party. The Spurs have done even better than that, as his offer is above the minimum for his years of experience, I believe. They're showing respect. They're not totally playing hardball with him. All he has to do is bring in another offer. What's the problem? The problem is he either doesn't have one, or he doesn't want to live in China for three years, etc. I suspect that's the case. He has an offer, but doesn't like what it entails, and is being resentful of the fact that if he wants more money he's going to have to live in an environment that he maybe doesn't feel he'll enjoy as much. Tough titties. In those scenarios why do I have to pay you another million? You want it? Take your newlywed wife and go earn it in China for a year or three. Oh, wait, those Chinese offers come with the stipulation that you have to live in China? Fuck. Didn't realize that. You mean every Sheila MIGHT NOT want to live in China for 1-3 years? Tell her to not be such a Xenophobe and pack her suitcases and her pocket Mandarin dictionary. Internet isn't totally restricted over there, with the right government documents, she should still be able to use Skype to communicate with you and family and friends, and there may be an ex-pat community she can knit with while you're away on the road. Or, she can stay back in Australia, and you can see her on occasions and the offseason. It's cool. Just mail her back that extra 900k, it smooths over the wrinkles in those long distance relationships. At my day job, I don't make as much as I could 90 miles south of San Antonio as an engineer in the oil fields. I am sure that's true for a lot of people on these boards. We take less money because fuck that. That's Baynes decision. I won't blame him one bit if he leaves, but fuck him for being what I think was a 300lb. bitch, beginning several months ago, with a whiny comment in the media. Ball's in his court until October 1. Otherwise we find another bruiser that can't shoot, dribble, or pass, even though I like the bruiser he is and want to keep him.

[heyheymymy]

Nono, you like to talk about what we know for sure (earlier post), but not in this case? We don't know for sure that he's worth 2 million. We know for sure he's worth 1.1 million because that is currently what someone is willing to pay. Baynes and you think he's worth 2, but you guys aren't writing any checks. Again, he's been given a raise, if he wants a windfall, that's up to him and his agent. That's what free agency is all about. I much rather they put Baynes in the hot seat to save a million and not play hardball with Kawhi, etc. If they save a million here and there over the years it adds up to real money that they can give to players that we can't live without. We would like to have him back, but we can live without him. I don't think most of us care if they pay him 2 million, but only if there is a serious offer from someone else. It's been mentioned over and over, but why bid against yourself, and why start a negotiation at your extreme offer? It usually doesn't work that way for me, but I don't deal with such large numbers. Maybe the art of negotiation is different for you and you find bidding against yourself and starting at your extreme price a successful strategy. (I am assuming that The Spurs wouldn't be interested in him for much more than that.) But, I find that when I bid against myself I get buyer's remorse in addition to lost profit, and when I start at my extreme, I lose deals because the other party never takes me at my word that max means max or min means min, instead interpreting my offer as weakness or beginning for negotiation, then when they counter my max/min, and I refuse to go higher/lower, they see me as being recalcitrant and unwilling to negotiate. What The Spurs have done is just fine. Offered him a raise, and said that if he gets any other offers they would be interested in trying to be competetive with those offers, to a point. A maxim that I have found very useful is this: "The first person to give a number loses." As with all maxims, it's not perfect, but this one has been helpful to me on more occasions than any other I can remember. So, when I am forced to name a number first, as sometimes it can't be avoided, I always name as ridiculous a number I can that will still be in the realm of negotiation. Essentially, I attempt to follow the maxim, still. Give a number without giving a number. (Let's get in that boat and fight on that island over there.) You attempt to elicit a response from the other party. The Spurs have done even better than that, as his offer is above the minimum for his years of experience, I believe. They're showing respect. They're not totally playing hardball with him. All he has to do is bring in another offer. What's the problem? The problem is he either doesn't have one, or he doesn't want to live in China for three years, etc. I suspect that's the case. He has an offer, but doesn't like what it entails, and is being resentful of the fact that if he wants more money he's going to have to live in an environment that he maybe doesn't feel he'll enjoy as much. Tough titties. In those scenarios why do I have to pay you another million? You want it? Take your newlywed wife and go earn it in China for a year or three. Oh, wait, those Chinese offers come with the stipulation that you have to live in China? Fuck. Didn't realize that. You mean every Sheila MIGHT NOT want to live in China for 1-3 years? Tell her to not be such a Xenophobe and pack her suitcases and her pocket Mandarin dictionary. Internet isn't totally restricted over there, with the right government documents, she should still be able to use Skype to communicate with you and family and friends, and there may be an ex-pat community she can knit with while you're away on the road. Or, she can stay back in Australia, and you can see her on occasions and the offseason. It's cool. Just mail her back that extra 900k, it smooths over the wrinkles in those long distance relationships. At my day job, I don't make as much as I could 90 miles south of San Antonio as an engineer in the oil fields. I am sure that's true for a lot of people on these boards. We take less money because fuck that. That's Baynes decision. I won't blame him one bit if he leaves, but fuck him for being what I think was a 300lb. bitch, beginning several months ago, with a whiny comment in the media. Ball's in his court until October 1. Otherwise we find another bruiser that can't shoot, dribble, or pass, even though I like the bruiser he is and want to keep him.

holy fucking great wall of text!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

^ Missing an Enter button there.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Last time, you and HeyHey said it was TL;DR, so I took out the page breaks to make it shorter for you, and now you're complaining that there aren't enough paragraphs.

There's just no pleasing some people.

[ElNono]

Nono, you like to talk about what we know for sure (earlier post), but not in this case? We don't know for sure that he's worth 2 million.

:lol I said throughout my posts that him being worth $2m for one season is just my opinion. If you don't agree, that's fine. Like I said twice before, I understand the Spurs don't have to offer a penny more.

I like the bruiser too, I think he's a good fit for our roster, and hope the Spurs don't lose him over a mere $900k or so difference.

EDIT: I read your post, BTW.

[benefactor]

Nono, you like to talk about what we know for sure (earlier post), but not in this case? We don't know for sure that he's worth 2 million. We know for sure he's worth 1.1 million because that is currently what someone is willing to pay. Baynes and you think he's worth 2, but you guys aren't writing any checks. Again, he's been given a raise, if he wants a windfall, that's up to him and his agent. That's what free agency is all about. I much rather they put Baynes in the hot seat to save a million and not play hardball with Kawhi, etc. If they save a million here and there over the years it adds up to real money that they can give to players that we can't live without. We would like to have him back, but we can live without him. I don't think most of us care if they pay him 2 million, but only if there is a serious offer from someone else. It's been mentioned over and over, but why bid against yourself, and why start a negotiation at your extreme offer? It usually doesn't work that way for me, but I don't deal with such large numbers. Maybe the art of negotiation is different for you and you find bidding against yourself and starting at your extreme price a successful strategy. (I am assuming that The Spurs wouldn't be interested in him for much more than that.) But, I find that when I bid against myself I get buyer's remorse in addition to lost profit, and when I start at my extreme, I lose deals because the other party never takes me at my word that max means max or min means min, instead interpreting my offer as weakness or beginning for negotiation, then when they counter my max/min, and I refuse to go higher/lower, they see me as being recalcitrant and unwilling to negotiate. What The Spurs have done is just fine. Offered him a raise, and said that if he gets any other offers they would be interested in trying to be competetive with those offers, to a point. A maxim that I have found very useful is this: "The first person to give a number loses." As with all maxims, it's not perfect, but this one has been helpful to me on more occasions than any other I can remember. So, when I am forced to name a number first, as sometimes it can't be avoided, I always name as ridiculous a number I can that will still be in the realm of negotiation. Essentially, I attempt to follow the maxim, still. Give a number without giving a number. (Let's get in that boat and fight on that island over there.) You attempt to elicit a response from the other party. The Spurs have done even better than that, as his offer is above the minimum for his years of experience, I believe. They're showing respect. They're not totally playing hardball with him. All he has to do is bring in another offer. What's the problem? The problem is he either doesn't have one, or he doesn't want to live in China for three years, etc. I suspect that's the case. He has an offer, but doesn't like what it entails, and is being resentful of the fact that if he wants more money he's going to have to live in an environment that he maybe doesn't feel he'll enjoy as much. Tough titties. In those scenarios why do I have to pay you another million? You want it? Take your newlywed wife and go earn it in China for a year or three. Oh, wait, those Chinese offers come with the stipulation that you have to live in China? Fuck. Didn't realize that. You mean every Sheila MIGHT NOT want to live in China for 1-3 years? Tell her to not be such a Xenophobe and pack her suitcases and her pocket Mandarin dictionary. Internet isn't totally restricted over there, with the right government documents, she should still be able to use Skype to communicate with you and family and friends, and there may be an ex-pat community she can knit with while you're away on the road. Or, she can stay back in Australia, and you can see her on occasions and the offseason. It's cool. Just mail her back that extra 900k, it smooths over the wrinkles in those long distance relationships. At my day job, I don't make as much as I could 90 miles south of San Antonio as an engineer in the oil fields. I am sure that's true for a lot of people on these boards. We take less money because fuck that. That's Baynes decision. I won't blame him one bit if he leaves, but fuck him for being what I think was a 300lb. bitch, beginning several months ago, with a whiny comment in the media. Ball's in his court until October 1. Otherwise we find another bruiser that can't shoot, dribble, or pass, even though I like the bruiser he is and want to keep him.
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[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol I said throughout my posts that him being worth $2m for one season is just my opinion. If you don't agree, that's fine. Like I said twice before, I understand the Spurs don't have to offer a penny more.

I like the bruiser too, I think he's a good fit for our roster, and hope the Spurs don't lose him over a mere $900k or so difference.

EDIT: I read your post, BTW.

I know you don't think The Spurs are obligated. I know it was your opinion, and I realize you stated as much, but you did just politely hold someone's feet to the fire for asserting an unknown. Baynes' value of 2 million is not known, and can't be asserted. Can't use it. That's your rule. :) 1.1 million. That's known. If he gets a real offer for 2 million, they probably try to appease him. They aren't in the habbit of making enemies. Even waived guys like Jackson still hold The Spurs in high regard. And, they've really been soft with Baynes in my opinion.

1) They could have offered the minimum. Instead they bid against themselves once already and gave him a raise.

2) They've said they'll pay him more than what they've offered, if necessary. Definitely not hardball. An admission that he's worth something more to them. That doesn't strengthen their position.

If he would have handled it right he might have already gotten a better offer from The Spurs than what he got. He is the one playing hardball with them. If he would have taken 1.5, for example, he may already be signed, but he wanted to pursue the open market, stating what he was worth, and so The Spurs said: Have at it. We'll give you 1.1 to start, see if you can improve on that. But, they sound weak, to me. They sound as if they might have paid a little more if he had forgone his courting on the market. He didn't forego that, so they are simply following protocol. See what you can get above 1.1, we'll see if we can match. Problem is, it just doesn't appear to be going as well as Aron thought it would. It turns out that 1.1 isn't as lowball an offer as he thought, because maybe there isn't a flood of offers coming in for 2+. And the one he may have is in China, and he doesn't fit in the chairs over there. Maybe now he wishes he would have told them: I don't want to play anywhere else. I'll play here for 1.8. (Ayers' salary) and see what they counter with from the very beginning. But, he ain't got a time machine to go back to the very beginning.

He didn't do that. He got adversarial with them, they let Shane ride. You can't homestead Shane. He's wild. Come back Shane! Come back!

Did Shane die from his wound? Does the tombstone read October, 1st?

And, I'm flattered that you read. I do know it's long. ;) Luckily I've got people to point that out for me.

[ElNono]

It's a contract negotiation, I expect both sides to play hardball, more or less. He obviously isn't a franchise great like Tim, Tony or Manu, where the Spurs will just hand out a blank check.

I just hope it ends up with the banger back as a Spur... I liked his attitude and play, even if limited, with us last season.

[littlecoyotecoin]

It's a contract negotiation, I expect both sides to play hardball, more or less. He obviously isn't a franchise great like Tim, Tony or Manu, where the Spurs will just hand out a blank check.

I just hope it ends up with the banger back as a Spur... I liked his attitude and play, even if limited, with us last season.

I think we're all in general agreement, there.

[bluebellmaniac]

If we did a sign and trade for him, what would you take? Any 2nd rounder? Probable mid-second rounder? In terms of trading for picks, what do you think is equitable?

[spurraider21]

I'd take a top 61 protected pick for Ayres

[bluebellmaniac]

I'd take a top 61 protected pick for Ayres

True, but what about Baynes?

[spurraider21]

True, but what about Baynes?
The only thing we'd ever get is a protected 2nd and a small trade exception. Certainly better than just having him walk. I'd rather resign him for 2 mil than facilitate such a deal though

[Splits]

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[BackHome]

Austin and Errors need to go.....keep Baynes.

[TampaDude]

Nono, you like to talk about what we know for sure (earlier post), but not in this case? We don't know for sure that he's worth 2 million. We know for sure he's worth 1.1 million because that is currently what someone is willing to pay. Baynes and you think he's worth 2, but you guys aren't writing any checks. Again, he's been given a raise, if he wants a windfall, that's up to him and his agent. That's what free agency is all about. I much rather they put Baynes in the hot seat to save a million and not play hardball with Kawhi, etc. If they save a million here and there over the years it adds up to real money that they can give to players that we can't live without. We would like to have him back, but we can live without him. I don't think most of us care if they pay him 2 million, but only if there is a serious offer from someone else. It's been mentioned over and over, but why bid against yourself, and why start a negotiation at your extreme offer? It usually doesn't work that way for me, but I don't deal with such large numbers. Maybe the art of negotiation is different for you and you find bidding against yourself and starting at your extreme price a successful strategy. (I am assuming that The Spurs wouldn't be interested in him for much more than that.) But, I find that when I bid against myself I get buyer's remorse in addition to lost profit, and when I start at my extreme, I lose deals because the other party never takes me at my word that max means max or min means min, instead interpreting my offer as weakness or beginning for negotiation, then when they counter my max/min, and I refuse to go higher/lower, they see me as being recalcitrant and unwilling to negotiate. What The Spurs have done is just fine. Offered him a raise, and said that if he gets any other offers they would be interested in trying to be competetive with those offers, to a point. A maxim that I have found very useful is this: "The first person to give a number loses." As with all maxims, it's not perfect, but this one has been helpful to me on more occasions than any other I can remember. So, when I am forced to name a number first, as sometimes it can't be avoided, I always name as ridiculous a number I can that will still be in the realm of negotiation. Essentially, I attempt to follow the maxim, still. Give a number without giving a number. (Let's get in that boat and fight on that island over there.) You attempt to elicit a response from the other party. The Spurs have done even better than that, as his offer is above the minimum for his years of experience, I believe. They're showing respect. They're not totally playing hardball with him. All he has to do is bring in another offer. What's the problem? The problem is he either doesn't have one, or he doesn't want to live in China for three years, etc. I suspect that's the case. He has an offer, but doesn't like what it entails, and is being resentful of the fact that if he wants more money he's going to have to live in an environment that he maybe doesn't feel he'll enjoy as much. Tough titties. In those scenarios why do I have to pay you another million? You want it? Take your newlywed wife and go earn it in China for a year or three. Oh, wait, those Chinese offers come with the stipulation that you have to live in China? Fuck. Didn't realize that. You mean every Sheila MIGHT NOT want to live in China for 1-3 years? Tell her to not be such a Xenophobe and pack her suitcases and her pocket Mandarin dictionary. Internet isn't totally restricted over there, with the right government documents, she should still be able to use Skype to communicate with you and family and friends, and there may be an ex-pat community she can knit with while you're away on the road. Or, she can stay back in Australia, and you can see her on occasions and the offseason. It's cool. Just mail her back that extra 900k, it smooths over the wrinkles in those long distance relationships. At my day job, I don't make as much as I could 90 miles south of San Antonio as an engineer in the oil fields. I am sure that's true for a lot of people on these boards. We take less money because fuck that. That's Baynes decision. I won't blame him one bit if he leaves, but fuck him for being what I think was a 300lb. bitch, beginning several months ago, with a whiny comment in the media. Ball's in his court until October 1. Otherwise we find another bruiser that can't shoot, dribble, or pass, even though I like the bruiser he is and want to keep him.

Dude...lay off the meth... :lol

[littlecoyotecoin]

God forbid some of you should ever be confronted in a dark alley by an actual book.

[benefactor]

God forbid some of you should ever be confronted in a dark alley by an actual book.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10626617_799670300055585_4928375917623759575_n.jpg ?oh=c1f1c4113d98bb327a26207ea312211f&oe=54C03E14&__gda__=1418983202_57a440d1ab98e9f49c69dfe7e27ab96 2

[mkurts]

Let it go, Baynes obviously thinks himself better than a Spurs reserve. He can go to China and be the starting PF on their crap teams.

[RD2191]

Nono, you like to talk about what we know for sure (earlier post), but not in this case? We don't know for sure that he's worth 2 million. We know for sure he's worth 1.1 million because that is currently what someone is willing to pay. Baynes and you think he's worth 2, but you guys aren't writing any checks. Again, he's been given a raise, if he wants a windfall, that's up to him and his agent. That's what free agency is all about. I much rather they put Baynes in the hot seat to save a million and not play hardball with Kawhi, etc. If they save a million here and there over the years it adds up to real money that they can give to players that we can't live without. We would like to have him back, but we can live without him. I don't think most of us care if they pay him 2 million, but only if there is a serious offer from someone else. It's been mentioned over and over, but why bid against yourself, and why start a negotiation at your extreme offer? It usually doesn't work that way for me, but I don't deal with such large numbers. Maybe the art of negotiation is different for you and you find bidding against yourself and starting at your extreme price a successful strategy. (I am assuming that The Spurs wouldn't be interested in him for much more than that.) But, I find that when I bid against myself I get buyer's remorse in addition to lost profit, and when I start at my extreme, I lose deals because the other party never takes me at my word that max means max or min means min, instead interpreting my offer as weakness or beginning for negotiation, then when they counter my max/min, and I refuse to go higher/lower, they see me as being recalcitrant and unwilling to negotiate. What The Spurs have done is just fine. Offered him a raise, and said that if he gets any other offers they would be interested in trying to be competetive with those offers, to a point. A maxim that I have found very useful is this: "The first person to give a number loses." As with all maxims, it's not perfect, but this one has been helpful to me on more occasions than any other I can remember. So, when I am forced to name a number first, as sometimes it can't be avoided, I always name as ridiculous a number I can that will still be in the realm of negotiation. Essentially, I attempt to follow the maxim, still. Give a number without giving a number. (Let's get in that boat and fight on that island over there.) You attempt to elicit a response from the other party. The Spurs have done even better than that, as his offer is above the minimum for his years of experience, I believe. They're showing respect. They're not totally playing hardball with him. All he has to do is bring in another offer. What's the problem? The problem is he either doesn't have one, or he doesn't want to live in China for three years, etc. I suspect that's the case. He has an offer, but doesn't like what it entails, and is being resentful of the fact that if he wants more money he's going to have to live in an environment that he maybe doesn't feel he'll enjoy as much. Tough titties. In those scenarios why do I have to pay you another million? You want it? Take your newlywed wife and go earn it in China for a year or three. Oh, wait, those Chinese offers come with the stipulation that you have to live in China? Fuck. Didn't realize that. You mean every Sheila MIGHT NOT want to live in China for 1-3 years? Tell her to not be such a Xenophobe and pack her suitcases and her pocket Mandarin dictionary. Internet isn't totally restricted over there, with the right government documents, she should still be able to use Skype to communicate with you and family and friends, and there may be an ex-pat community she can knit with while you're away on the road. Or, she can stay back in Australia, and you can see her on occasions and the offseason. It's cool. Just mail her back that extra 900k, it smooths over the wrinkles in those long distance relationships. At my day job, I don't make as much as I could 90 miles south of San Antonio as an engineer in the oil fields. I am sure that's true for a lot of people on these boards. We take less money because fuck that. That's Baynes decision. I won't blame him one bit if he leaves, but fuck him for being what I think was a 300lb. bitch, beginning several months ago, with a whiny comment in the media. Ball's in his court until October 1. Otherwise we find another bruiser that can't shoot, dribble, or pass, even though I like the bruiser he is and want to keep him.
:lol

[Dex]

God forbid some of you should ever be confronted in a dark alley by an actual book.

Books use paragraphs, too.

[RD2191]

God forbid some of you should ever be confronted in a dark alley by an actual book.
:lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

God forbid some of you should ever be confronted in a dark alley by an actual book.
It's the internet bruh. No one comes here to read novels. They come here for tits and ass tbh..

[Splits]

It's the internet bruh. No one comes here to read novels. They come here for tits and ass tbh..


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[SupremeGuy]

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[spurraider21]

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where can i order one of these?

[littlecoyotecoin]

Books use paragraphs, too.

You should be thanking me. My lack of formatting which gave you such cause for whining, has spawned the eye-candy we all prefer anyway. Of course, you could just scroll on past the text if it's so fucking hard to read, and we can all do Google image searches for the boobies, but what fun would that be? A whiny circle-jerk is always more fun.

[Nero5]

The implication that them "working out a whole heap of them" has been some sort of failure is absurd. 1) They've actually offered Ayon a deal, presumably contingent on Baynes not signing October first, as an outcome of these workouts and this search process you're denigrating. 2) He declined, and it isn't customary to offer multiple dudes a deal for a spot that is already spoken for, so they'll refocus on the next dude given Ayon signing with Madrid, while waiting on 10/1 to arrive. 3) these workouts are standard practice. Par for the course. I guess they fail every year because they workout a bunch of guys every year that they don't sign. Or, maybe it's just due dilligence, scouting, and good contingency planning and investing? 4) As Exstatic points out, Baynes was plucked from obscurity for cheap, and there is no reason to believe that The Spurs don't have their eye on a couple, or even a handfull of other prospects that they would like to explore by having them on the end of the bench. I like Baynes for his role, but it's not a complicated one. If they aren't afraid of losing him to a pay increase, I can't be too afraid of it, either. I like Daye's upside potential, but it's based on what we've got him for, which is next to nothing, and for one year - unless he somehow breaks out. If he contributes as little as Baynes did, and asks for double the money, I would have to politely show him the door, too. Next year. Baynes is a known commodity, and The Spurs just don't value that commodity as high as Baynes does. He got a 41% raise. If he wants a bigger raise than that he's got to bring some offers to the table. It's pretty simple. I would like to have him back just because he's familiar with the system, good in certain matchups, but he's not got much more upside than we've seen, and he is replaceable. And he and Ayers are somewhat redundant except for guarding a Howard. Spurs don't seem too worried about him guarding Howard.

meh! You are prjecting a little or simply misreading as I was not denigrating. They have sought to see what is in the market, it keeps pressure on Baynes and they look to options. THey have not found an option so far.

[spurraider21]

he was right. got 2.1

[SupremeGuy]

he was right. got 2.1:toast

[Galileo]

Baynes is worth $ 2 million and in a year or two will be worth a lot more than that.


Galileostradamus nailed this one!!!!

:owned

:idiot

:stfu

:fro

[Ice009]

I said it all along that he should get a raise.

lol, people said no way the Spurs do that.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I said it all along that he should get a raise.

lol, people said no way the Spurs do that.

Let's be real. Almost no one said they wouldn't pay or that he wasn't worth it. The Spurs publicly admitted they were willing to up their offer if need be. We said they shouldn't bid against themselves, which there is no indication that they did. There was always a very good chance they would reach some agreement, eventually.

Work on something with long odds.

[Ice009]

Did I say that no-one said they wouldn't pay or that he wasn't worth it? No, I didn't.

A lot of the posters here said they won't bid against themselves and up the offer at all. They said the Spurs would move on if he didn't sign the QO.

Where's the proof of those other offers that the Spurs matched? If you don't have any proof of those offers, then for now, we'll just say you guys were wrong.

[SupremeGuy]

I said it all along that he should get a raise.

lol, people said no way the Spurs do that.Exactly. I'm looking at you exstatic and cumdumper.

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly. I'm looking at you exstatic and cumdumper.I said it makes sense to overpay him to keep it a one-year deal.

[cjw]

The amount really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things given they're well below the tax. In a way, having several guys on one year deals that make a decent amount (Bonner over $1mm, Baynes $2mm, Ayres and Daye still around) would allow for a trade if needed in which they take back salary. Those four make $6 million on their own, which means $9 million could come back in a trade and that doesn't include the Anderson / Cojo piece that would also have to be shipped out as an asset. Not saying a big contract coming back has a real chance of happening, but they certainly have the contracts to do it if needed. Just please don't let it be an RJ again.

That combined with still having the full MLE to pursue buyouts is one of the more underrated parts of the offseason - maintaining flexibility.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I said it all along that he should get a raise.

lol, people said no way the Spurs do that.

"...people said no way The Spurs do that..."?!

Again, The Spurs said PUBLICLY that they were willing to give him a raise, if it came to that. Almost no one said they would not, because The Spurs admitted they would very early on. And, if you want to deny the reported offer(s) out of Asia existed so you can claim a moral victory, more power to you, but it just looks like business as usual to me. The Spurs did what they said they would do...match any reasonable offer. Or, in this case, come close enough that it outweighed moving to China for a few years. Offers go unpublicized all the time, Baynes wasn't going to NOT PLAY vs. play for 1.1 million, so the only reasonable conclusion is that he had some kind of better offer on the table, or The Spurs would have gotten him for 1.1.

[littlecoyotecoin]

The amount really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things given they're well below the tax. In a way, having several guys on one year deals that make a decent amount (Bonner over $1mm, Baynes $2mm, Ayres and Daye still around) would allow for a trade if needed in which they take back salary. Those four make $6 million on their own, which means $9 million could come back in a trade and that doesn't include the Anderson / Cojo piece that would also have to be shipped out as an asset. Not saying a big contract coming back has a real chance of happening, but they certainly have the contracts to do it if needed. Just please don't let it be an RJ again.

That combined with still having the full MLE to pursue buyouts is one of the more underrated parts of the offseason - maintaining flexibility.

I'm pretty sure they want to keep the team in tact. They put all their ducks in a row toward that end. I doubt they did it just to pull off a trade, but I guess it could happen. However, continuity is a big deal to them.

[wildcardX]

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Well I read Harry Potter and :wow:wow:wow HOLY SHIT!!!! How does her leg.......and her back folding........


I'll be back in 10 minutes

[cjw]

I'm pretty sure they want to keep the team in tact. They put all their ducks in a row toward that end. I doubt they did it just to pull off a trade, but I guess it could happen. However, continuity is a big deal to them.

Right - in the end, there's a 90% chance it doesn't matter. But a little extra cash going into a one year deal provides for flexibility. Let's just hope it's Ayers on his way out instead.