Eric Bledsoe signs a 5yr/$70 million extension

[Kawhi]

514893545384460289

[Xylus]

The Phoenix Suns training and medical staff better clench tight.

$14 mil/yr I'm fine with, but 5 years is a long time for a player with injury history.

[DPG21920]

Wow. GOAT agent

[Chinook]

It's not an extension. Woj needs to fix that. Still decent deal all around depending on the guarantees.

[Splits]

:lol Dale

[benefactor]

7:lol million for Bledsoe

[Xylus]

No player or team options attached to this deal, reportedly. Straight-up 5-year deal

[Mel_13]

7M per year for Thomas and 14M per year for Bledsoe. Dragic and his agent are celebrating right now.

[Xylus]

Goran gonna get paaaaaid

[DPG21920]

Suns are the new Minny. :lol dat front court

[Brunodf]

Wasting a 5yr deal on Bleadsoe... Really?:bang

[Mikeanaro]

Gud for Blednose, props to his agent.

[Chinook]

Contract is very tradeable this season, so there's that. Phoenix actually gains leverage now that he took less than the max.

[Dex]

Lot of shit been talked about Bledsoe, but he definitely drove his value up.

Problem is, he also drove up the value of every run-of-the-mill point guard in the league, too.

[Jeremy]

I said I would go to 5/65, but no higher due to injury history. This is probably the best option they had at this point, though.

[Thread]

He brought the Suns to their knees.

& just like that the cancer had sliced margins and was excised.

[spurraider21]

Im a bigger fan if Bledsoe than most here. He could end up being worth that kind of money

[baseline bum]

:lmao $70 million for a guy who plays half the season. :lmao

:cry If the franchise spent that money 10 years ago they'd have multiple championships :cry

[SupremeGuy]

Wow. GOAT agentThis. :lol

[Thread]

Gud for Blednose, props to his agent.

& here they called that agent everything but a black man. "retarded"-"He's no agent, he's just LeBron's friend."-"He no agent, he's just some guy LeBron found selling t-shirts out of his Pinto."-"How dare he try and break into the agent business.........on our dime."--"Not one thin dime more is he getting."

[DPG21920]

Im a bigger fan if Bledsoe than most here. He could end up being worth that kind of money

It's not a good risk to take on an injury prone player that even when healthy hasn't proven to be worth that much.

[baseline bum]

& here they called that agent everything but a black man. "retarded"-"He's no agent, he's just LeBron's friend."-"He no agent, he's just some guy LeBron found selling t-shirts out of his Pinto."-"How dare he try and break into the agent business.........on our dime."--"Not one thin dime more is he getting."

Aren't you glad they weren't throwing that kind of money around in the Joe Johnson or Andre Iguodala days? There'd be no O & 46.

[Thread]

Aren't you glad they weren't throwing that kind of money around in the Joe Johnson or Andre Iguodala days? There'd be no O & 46.

Joe Johnson & Iguodala are pie-in-the-sky POS. They'd still be O & 46. They're O & 46 because Barkley let MJ okey doke him in the Summer of '93 like Russell did Chamberlain.

They're O & 46 because it's always personal here,,,it is never business.

[Mikeanaro]

& here they called that agent everything but a black man. "retarded"-"He's no agent, he's just LeBron's friend."-"He no agent, he's just some guy LeBron found selling t-shirts out of his Pinto."-"How dare he try and break into the agent business.........on our dime."--"Not one thin dime more is he getting."
If I were a pro player I would love to have that kind of ¨retarded¨ agent representing me.

[AaronY]

Team now led by three point guards. DoK must be rolling over in his grave

[Splits]

Team now led by three point guards. DoK must be rolling over in his grave

4 if you count Ennis

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:lol 70 mill for a pg who cant shoot

[Thread]

:lol 70 mill for a pg who cant shoot

They'll have to match that for Dragic next June.

tee, hee.

[cd021]

Considering how fast the cap is rising (could be at $66.5 million after next season, $8.5 million increase in just two seasons) $14 million per is a pretty good deal for the Suns.

Still don't think they'll make the playoffs. as is next season though.

[Chinook]

Considering how fast the cap is rising (could be at $66.5 million after next season, $8.5 million increase in just two seasons) $14 million per is a pretty good deal for the Suns.

Still don't think they'll make the playoffs. as is next season though.

Eh, they'll probably get in over Memphis if they can stay reasonably healthy.

I agree, though, that the cap rising is going to change the way people see a lot of deals. As I said in another thread, the MLE in 2017 should be in the $30M/4 range. So Eric's deal will be closer to a $55M/5 in terms of impact on the cap.

The problem is obviously that if Bledsoe can't stay healthy or doesn't continue to improve, then he'll be a bad contract no matter how you want to look at it. That's why the Suns would be smart to trade him off to a team like Minny come the 15th of January.

[Chinook]

It's possible that a five-year contract is better than a four-year one. Coach Nick brought up the point that meniscus injuries tend to shorten careers rather than derail them. So Bledsoe doesn't project to be a very good player in his 30s. But during this contract, he shouldn't see many negative effects. So by giving out a longer deal, the Suns captured more of Bledsoe's prime while also giving themselves a chance to eject before the injuries catch up to him. The team that signs him in 2019 won't be as lucky.

[Thread]

It's possible that a five-year contract is better than a four-year one. Coach Nick brought up the point that meniscus injuries tend to shorten careers rather than derail them. So Bledsoe doesn't project to be a very good player in his 30s. But during this contract, he shouldn't see many negative effects. So by giving out a longer deal, the Suns captured more of Bledsoe's prime while also giving themselves a chance to eject before the injuries catch up to him. The team that signs him in 2019 won't be as lucky.

They swore up & they swore down here that they'd never give him that 5th year.

They gave him that 5th year.

[Chinook]

They swore up & they swore down here that they'd never give him that 5th year.

They gave him that 5th year.

You can probably safely make five more tallies in your "O & __" book.

[wanggi]

I predicted on another thread that the Suns would be possible to sign a 70 mil/5 yr contract extension with Bledsoul.
Taiwanese fans have better BBALL sense than Yankee's ?

tee, hee.

[Killakobe81]

I dont care what cap is jumping to, I wouldnt have given him that contract when no one else was willing to. The suns med staff is best in the business, so that helps ... but his agent got his client want he wanted with little leverage. Props.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Suns bid against themselves and when they inevitably pay Dragic next summer they'll have 35+ mil committed to 3 short guards. No matter how much the cap rises, this isn't good cap management. They'd be smart to trade him for a wing or a big in february if he's having a decent season.

[wanggi]

Suns bid against themselves and when they inevitably pay Dragic next summer they'll have 35+ mil committed to 3 short guards. No matter how much the cap rises, this isn't good cap management. They'd be smart to trade him for a wing or a big in february if he's having a decent season.
they very probably will trade Thomas, Goodwin, or Ennis later.

[Brazil]

:lmao

current Parker contract 4 years at $M 50 is a steal

[Killakobe81]

:lmao

current Parker contract 4 years at $M 50 is a steal

No shit. That is why I wouldnt have caved on this. Dude makes like 6-7 million less than Lebron. SMh ...

[wanggi]

current Parker contract 4 years at $M 50 is a steal

It's a steal in first two years but it's a waste in last two years.:bang

[ambchang]

Bledsoe is a $12M a year player, max, and that is factoring in his potential.

He's a two guard in a PG's body, somebody who's a scorer, and is not particularly good in involving his teammates. He's like a poor man's Westbrook in some regards. Great athlete, defends pretty well.

Problem is that Dragic and him both requires the ball in their hands to maximize their effectiveness. I see the Suns trading him in the near future, but it would be tough with that contract.

[Brazil]

No shit. That is why I wouldnt have caved on this. Dude makes like 6-7 million less than Lebron. SMh ...

even parker extension 3 years $M 43 look reasonable in comparaison :lol

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao

current Parker contract 4 years at $M 50 is a steal
:lol As in, Enrique is stealing money from the Spurs organization....

[Killakobe81]

Bledsoe is a $12M a year player, max, and that is factoring in his potential.

He's a two guard in a PG's body, somebody who's a scorer, and is not particularly good in involving his teammates. He's like a poor man's Westbrook in some regards. Great athlete, defends pretty well.

Problem is that Dragic and him both requires the ball in their hands to maximize their effectiveness. I see the Suns trading him in the near future, but it would be tough with that contract.

this. The NBA salary structure is dumb. IF i was Lebron I would take a very different stance come next negotiations.

[Killakobe81]

Spurs come out on top again. I would take Parker over Bledsoe at more money but at less that's a steal. And I forget they signed thomas wtf is PHX doing?

[Mori Chu]

I'm not in love with the contract, but I'd rather have him back than lose him for nothing. If he doesn't suffer any serious injury, I think the deal will be a good value. Hopefully the top-notch Suns medical staff can keep tabs on him and help maximize his chance of staying on the court for all 5 years. No need to burn him out with heavy minutes since we have Dragic and Thomas there.

[JamStone]

this. The NBA salary structure is dumb. IF i was Lebron I would take a very different stance come next negotiations.


LeBron likely doesn't care that much about his NBA salary, so long as it's in the upper say 10% of the highest paid players or somewhere in that neighborhood.

There are NBA stars who get paid a lot of money to play basketball. Then there are NBA stars who are also media icons like LeBron, Durant. At least as far as last year, according to Forbes, LeBron made about $19 million from his NBA salary. He made about $53 million in endorsements. So his endorsement money made up over 2.5 times as much as his NBA salary was. Guys like Lebron and Durant and in the past guys like Iverson or Shaq and obviously the king of them all Michael Jordan made a financial killing off the court. I'm not suggesting LeBron or other highly popular athletes play for pennies, but a LeBron making a $20 million NBA salary when he probably deserves over $30 million isn't as big of a deal because of his endorsement dollars. For most of his prime years, Tiger Woods' endorsement money annually dwarfed his tour money. Instead of looking at it as LeBron making $20 million versus Bledsoe making $14 million, look it as LeBron really making over $70 million and Bledsoe making $14 million.

Now for some NBA superstars like Dirk (perhaps because he doesn't care or perhaps because marketers didn't want to use the German star) or Tim Duncan (perhaps because he doesn't care either or his perceived dry personality), they don't make the huge money in endorsements. Maybe it would be more appropriate to use them as examples of an unfair NBA salary structure. For LeBron, he'd be fine if his NBA salary was $5 million a year, let alone $20 million. As long as LeBron is still dominating on the basketball court, is on a winning team, and doesn't get into any major/serious trouble off the court (e.g. Kobe post rape case), he doesn't have to worry much about whether he's being paid enough by the Cavs.

[Thread]

I'm not in love with the contract, but I'd rather have him back than lose him for nothing. If he doesn't suffer any serious injury, I think the deal will be a good value. Hopefully the top-notch Suns medical staff can keep tabs on him and help maximize his chance of staying on the court for all 5 years. No need to burn him out with heavy minutes since we have Dragic and Thomas there.

He's bone-on-bone, Mori, right-this-second.

And you gave him the 5th year after you swore you wouldn't.

48 to 70, just-like-that.

[Killakobe81]

LeBron likely doesn't care that much about his NBA salary, so long as it's in the upper say 10% of the highest paid players or somewhere in that neighborhood.

There are NBA stars who get paid a lot of money to play basketball. Then there are NBA stars who are also media icons like LeBron, Durant. At least as far as last year, according to Forbes, LeBron made about $19 million from his NBA salary. He made about $53 million in endorsements. So his endorsement money made up over 2.5 times as much as his NBA salary was. Guys like Lebron and Durant and in the past guys like Iverson or Shaq and obviously the king of them all Michael Jordan made a financial killing off the court. I'm not suggesting LeBron or other highly popular athletes play for pennies, but a LeBron making a $20 million NBA salary when he probably deserves over $30 million isn't as big of a deal because of his endorsement dollars. For most of his prime years, Tiger Woods' endorsement money annually dwarfed his tour money. Instead of looking at it as LeBron making $20 million versus Bledsoe making $14 million, look it as LeBron really making over $70 million and Bledsoe making $14 million.

Now for some NBA superstars like Dirk (perhaps because he doesn't care or perhaps because marketers didn't want to use the German star) or Tim Duncan (perhaps because he doesn't care either or his perceived dry personality), they don't make the huge money in endorsements. Maybe it would be more appropriate to use them as examples of an unfair NBA salary structure. For LeBron, he'd be fine if his NBA salary was $5 million a year, let alone $20 million. As long as LeBron is still dominating on the basketball court, is on a winning team, and doesn't get into any major/serious trouble off the court (e.g. Kobe post rape case), he doesn't have to worry much about whether he's being paid enough by the Cavs.

I get your point. MJ is a great example. But still didnt stop him for making $25-$30 million (IIRC)near the end of his career. no one was making more than Mike off the court, but it is still a sign of disrespect that the best player in the sport and arguably the best player of ANY team sport is not getting a contract befitting that. And that a good not great player like Bledsoe makes 5 million less for on the court production...is crazy.

And I dont buy that he is not upset about it He has mentioned it several times. Remember he says he wants to be the first billionaire athlete. YOu dont get there by being raped by the CBA .... Click here (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/10690666/lebron-james-envious-miguel-cabrera-rues-nba-salary-cap)

[Thread]

They swore up & they swore down they wouldn't bid against themselves.

They bid against themselves.

[Chinook]

I get your point. MJ is a great example. But still didnt stop him for making $25-$30 million (IIRC)near the end of his career. no one was making more than Mike off the court, but it is still a sign of disrespect that the best player in the sport and arguably the best player of ANY team sport is not getting a contract befitting that. And that a good not great player like Bledsoe makes 5 million less for on the court production...is crazy.

And I dont buy that he is not upset about it He has mentioned it several times. Remember he says he wants to be the first billionaire athlete. YOu dont get there by being raped by the CBA .... Click here (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/10690666/lebron-james-envious-miguel-cabrera-rues-nba-salary-cap)

Lebron would be making significantly more money had he stayed with Cleveland and taken the max every year. He'd pretty much be getting what Melo is making. I don't think it's fair to use his salary to compare with Jordan. Kobe showed how much a tenured player can make when his team constantly maxes him out.

[JamStone]

I get your point. MJ is a great example. But still didnt stop him for making $25-$30 million (IIRC)near the end of his career. no one was making more than Mike off the court, but it is still a sign of disrespect that the best player in the sport and arguably the best player of ANY team sport is not getting a contract befitting that. And that a good not great player like Bledsoe makes 5 million less for on the court production...is crazy.

And I dont buy that he is not upset about it He has mentioned it several times. Remember he says he wants to be the first billionaire athlete. YOu dont get there by being raped by the CBA .... Click here (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/10690666/lebron-james-envious-miguel-cabrera-rues-nba-salary-cap)

Michael Jordan only made those big salaries in his final two seasons with the Bulls. Prior to those last two seasons, he wasn't cashing in those huge NBA salaries. Even out of retirement in the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons even with 3 NBA championships and 3 league MVPs already under his belt, he made $3.85 million and $3.8 million respectively. Among others, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Derrick Coleman, Penny Hardaway, and Shaquille O'Neal had higher salaries each of those seasons than Michael. Hakeem and Clyde had bigger salaries in the 95-96 season. The Bulls only decided to give a 33 year old Jordan the big bucks after he won the 4th championship after Jordan had already made the Bulls that money many times over.

LeBron cares about money obviously. But if he cared that much about it, he would have never signed with the Miami Heat in the first place 4 years ago and taken slightly less than the max. He would have demanded $30 million a year to return to Cleveland. He understands that most of the money he makes in the prime of his career will come from endorsements. Would he prefer that he also make $40 million a year from his NBA salary? I'm sure he would. But his NBA salary doesn't and won't prevent him from being one of the richest athletes in the world. Now, the media finding out that he raped a girl or beat his wife would do that. But as it stands, there are very few athletes in any sport in any country that makes as much money as LeBron as it is. I don't think he'll make a huge fit over his NBA salary.

[Killakobe81]

Michael Jordan only made those big salaries in his final two seasons with the Bulls. Prior to those last two seasons, he wasn't cashing in those huge NBA salaries. Even out of retirement in the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons even with 3 NBA championships and 3 league MVPs already under his belt, he made $3.85 million and $3.8 million respectively. Among others, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Derrick Coleman, Penny Hardaway, and Shaquille O'Neal had higher salaries each of those seasons than Michael. Hakeem and Clyde had bigger salaries in the 95-96 season. The Bulls only decided to give a 33 year old Jordan the big bucks after he won the 4th championship after Jordan had already made the Bulls that money many times over.

LeBron cares about money obviously. But if he cared that much about it, he would have never signed with the Miami Heat in the first place 4 years ago and taken slightly less than the max. He would have demanded $30 million a year to return to Cleveland. He understands that most of the money he makes in the prime of his career will come from endorsements. Would he prefer that he also make $40 million a year from his NBA salary? I'm sure he would. But his NBA salary doesn't and won't prevent him from being one of the richest athletes in the world. Now, the media finding out that he raped a girl or beat his wife would do that. But as it stands, there are very few athletes in any sport in any country that makes as much money as LeBron as it is. I don't think he'll make a huge fit over his NBA salary.

I dont disagree with any of this. But I do think he will (and should) push for a higher ceiling for top stars. Taking a small cut to get freedom to play wherever he wanted and to hit FA this past off-season. He did sacrifice some salary now but he won two titles and increased his off court earnings in the process. But no player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is. I think he should fight for it I guess we will see if he does. I dint think that makes him greedy. And I dont think despite his endorsements should let it go quietly either.

[Killakobe81]

They swore up & they swore down they wouldn't bid against themselves.

They bid against themselves.

this they cannot help themselves.

[Killakobe81]

Lebron would be making significantly more money had he stayed with Cleveland and taken the max every year. He'd pretty much be getting what Melo is making. I don't think it's fair to use his salary to compare with Jordan. Kobe showed how much a tenured player can make when his team constantly maxes him out.

Also true. But why should he have to sacrifice THAT much when like many of you have said Cavs couldnt build a proper team around him?

[spurraider21]

i just dont get what the suns are trying to build

[Thread]

i just dont get what the suns are trying to build

O & 1/2-a-100.

[JamStone]

But no player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is.

Tim Duncan did and did so happily. And he didn't have the type of endorsement dollars LeBron gets. Dirk did and did so willingly to allow Cuban to reconstruct the Mavs roster. Dustin Pedroia did and it was his idea to take considerably less than what his market value at the time was. Peyton Manning renegotiated his contract when he went to Denver and asked to take less than the Broncos were offering him. Let me say that again, he renegotiated to TAKE LESS than what they initially offered him.

Once you start talking about getting into the tens of millions of dollars, there are some star athletes that don't consider getting the most money possible as the most important thing, even if the money they do get might not be quite what they feel their value is.

[Killakobe81]

Tim Duncan did and did so happily. And he didn't have the type of endorsement dollars LeBron gets. Dirk did and did so willingly to allow Cuban to reconstruct the Mavs roster. Dustin Pedroia did and it was his idea to take considerably less than what his market value at the time was. Peyton Manning renegotiated his contract when he went to Denver and asked to take less than the Broncos were offering him. Let me say that again, he renegotiated to TAKE LESS than what they initially offered him.

Once you start talking about getting into the tens of millions of dollars, there are some star athletes that don't consider getting the most money possible as the most important thing, even if the money they do get might not be quite what they feel their value is.

Duncan Peyton and Dirk did so after they rang and after they both had max or near max deals. Dirk just finished a near max deal last year and I think the same applies to Peyton who was coming off serious injury in his last max type deal. Duncan was thought to be done from playing at an elite level just a few years ago so though I agree he too a substantial cut coming off back to back solid years (especially last one) none of those are where Lebron is NOW ... best player in the game still in his prime.

Pedroia was the only example you gave in his prime and although he is a very good player and one of the best 2nd basemen very out of place for this discussion. The other guys in this convo are first ballot HOF'ers. To go even further as nice as Dirk was he was never unquestioned as the best player in the game Timmy definitely was and when he was he was paid as such. Again I dont disagree with your entire rebuttal but I think we are looking at it from different perspectives.

Maybe you are right that MJ is not the perfect example since it was a different era ... but I think Lebron definitely deserves money Like Jordan those last couple Bull years. He probably deserves more. Maybe you are right he wont care and we can both can revisit this when they negotiate the next CBA ... but even if he does disagree he may not be vocal publicly because like you said, he makes so much off the court it could come across as greedy.

But he has already stated how jealous he was when Miggy and others signed big deals. I think he was being honest with those reactions which come soon after this new CBA kicked in. Maybe he makes no fuss publicly but I do believe it bothers him privately. Nothing you posted changes that for me and my posting his quotes are just as valid as you pointing out he could have stayed with Cavs and just taken a max deal. IMHO he wanted to win and it wasnt coming fast enough in Cleveland so he left some money on the table ... doesnt prove to me it did not matter. Are you telling me if he could get it he would not want that back?

After dirk re-signed. I heard dirk's interview with Ben & Skin (local DFW radio) he said he flat out "I dont want a Kobe type deal (LOL) but I expect a deal fair to both sides". At this point he he got that. Sure, he could get more ... I never said guys never take less. My point is they want an offer that is close to their value. All the examples used were guys with diminished value (save Pedrooia). Even if they are still good or great players, even Peyton.

Btw, I want to be Lebron's agent! I would not let this shit fly ... Jammy. You can spin all the koom-bya stuff you want. Other players should take cuts and make sacrifices to play with Bron not the other way around ...

[lefty]

No shit. That is why I wouldnt have caved on this. Dude makes like 6-7 million less than Lebron. SMh ...
Which makes sense tbh

[Chinook]

Also true. But why should he have to sacrifice THAT much when like many of you have said Cavs couldnt build a proper team around him?

What? Talk about entitled if he has that mindset. He chose winning over money, which is what he asked of quite a few of his teammates over the years. Kobe's constantly prioritized the opposite. Lebron as won more recently, and Kobe is getting paid more. That's just how it works.

[Killakobe81]

What? Talk about entitled if he has that mindset. He chose winning over money, which is what he asked of quite a few of his teammates over the years. Kobe's constantly prioritized the opposite. Lebron as won more recently, and Kobe is getting paid more. That's just how it works.

No. I am not critiquing him at all. He took less to ring because that was the choice forced by the new CBA and his lack of patience. I am just saying the very best player in his prime should NOT HAVE to take so much less than his vale or have it artificially capped. by Placing the provisons it did the middle class of the NBA is overpaid awhile the franchise guys are getting underpaid. Except Kobe, but that's another story.

[Killakobe81]

What? Talk about entitled if he has that mindset. He chose winning over money, which is what he asked of quite a few of his teammates over the years. Kobe's constantly prioritized the opposite. Lebron as won more recently, and Kobe is getting paid more. That's just how it works.

You also realize on the Cavs teams that get murdered on here for being sub-par Lebron wasnt even the highest paid player on THOSE teams?! Even in his MVP years? Does that make sense? Is that fair to him? Again I feel like I am being his agent and I know many support small market teams but would that be fair in corporate america. The highest salesman for example that makes the most money for his company being paid less than a mediocre salesman?

[baseline bum]

I dont care what cap is jumping to, I wouldnt have given him that contract when no one else was willing to. The suns med staff is best in the business, so that helps ... but his agent got his client want he wanted with little leverage. Props.

Didn't Bledsoe want 5 years, $85 million?

[Killakobe81]

Didn't Bledsoe want 5 years, $85 million?

Good question but could have just been negotiations maybe that 70 was the target because once suns went there it came through quickly ...either way he is overpaid but God bless him ...

[Chinook]

You also realize on the Cavs teams that get murdered on here for being sub-par Lebron wasnt even the highest paid player on THOSE teams?! Even in his MVP years? Does that make sense? Is that fair to him? Again I feel like I am being his agent and I know many support small market teams but would that be fair in corporate america. The highest salesman for example that makes the most money for his company being paid less than a mediocre salesman?

It has nothing to do with market. Cleveland would have paid him whatever he wanted. But they only reason why they had bigger contracts is because they acquired stars who sign contracts when they were also incredibly successful (you can argue that Shaq's career is still better than Lebron's). That's what happens in a league with long-term guaranteed deals. In the NFL, there's no max, and contracts are constantly negotiable. So you have players holding out and an increasing disparity between the top salaries and the rest. And yet the teams with the most skew are not the ones who are most successful.

Honestly, I think it's debatable whether stars are really underpaid in the NBA. There are plenty of formulae which suggest that role-players are the ones who don't make enough. Like if you go by win-shares : salary ratio, Duncan's actually overpaid compared to some other Spurs.

[Killakobe81]

It has nothing to do with market. Cleveland would have paid him whatever he wanted. But they only reason why they had bigger contracts is because they acquired stars who sign contracts when they were also incredibly successful (you can argue that Shaq's career is still better than Lebron's). That's what happens in a league with long-term guaranteed deals. In the NFL, there's no max, and contracts are constantly negotiable. So you have players holding out and an increasing disparity between the top salaries and the rest. And yet the teams with the most skew are not the ones who are most successful.

Honestly, I think it's debatable whether stars are really underpaid in the NBA. There are plenty of formulae which suggest that role-players are the ones who don't make enough. Like if you go by win-shares : salary ratio, Duncan's actually overpaid compared to some other Spurs.

Not until he was free agent, IIRC there already was a max deal in the previous CBA tied to rookie wage scale and years vested. Cavs could only pay him a max deal after that time-frame IIRC. I am not knocking Lebron or even the Cavs to me the system was and is shitty. I dont want to go to MLB free-for-all but the NFL model maybe Lebron could get paid the average of the top 5 salaries so he could benefit as the star of the NBA from the deals given Kobe, Joe Johnson, Melo etc. that would seem fair. I am not crying for him. Lebron is uber rich and we go back to our regular lives as he eloquently put it ...

but love him hate him or indifferent if Hayward and Parson should get 15 Lebron deserves twice that I dont care what win shares says ...

[Brazil]

Spurs come out on top again. I would take Parker over Bledsoe at more money but at less that's a steal. And I forget they signed thomas wtf is PHX doing?

don't forget that on current contract only 41M was guaranteed

[JamStone]

Duncan Peyton and Dirk did so after they rang and after they both had max or near max deals. Dirk just finished a near max deal last year and I think the same applies to Peyton who was coming off serious injury in his last max type deal. Duncan was thought to be done from playing at an elite level just a few years ago so though I agree he too a substantial cut coming off back to back solid years (especially last one) none of those are where Lebron is NOW ... best player in the game still in his prime.

Pedroia was the only example you gave in his prime and although he is a very good player and one of the best 2nd basemen very out of place for this discussion. The other guys in this convo are first ballot HOF'ers. To go even further as nice as Dirk was he was never unquestioned as the best player in the game Timmy definitely was and when he was he was paid as such. Again I dont disagree with your entire rebuttal but I think we are looking at it from different perspectives.

Maybe you are right that MJ is not the perfect example since it was a different era ... but I think Lebron definitely deserves money Like Jordan those last couple Bull years. He probably deserves more. Maybe you are right he wont care and we can both can revisit this when they negotiate the next CBA ... but even if he does disagree he may not be vocal publicly because like you said, he makes so much off the court it could come across as greedy.

But he has already stated how jealous he was when Miggy and others signed big deals. I think he was being honest with those reactions which come soon after this new CBA kicked in. Maybe he makes no fuss publicly but I do believe it bothers him privately. Nothing you posted changes that for me and my posting his quotes are just as valid as you pointing out he could have stayed with Cavs and just taken a max deal. IMHO he wanted to win and it wasnt coming fast enough in Cleveland so he left some money on the table ... doesnt prove to me it did not matter. Are you telling me if he could get it he would not want that back?

After dirk re-signed. I heard dirk's interview with Ben & Skin (local DFW radio) he said he flat out "I dont want a Kobe type deal (LOL) but I expect a deal fair to both sides". At this point he he got that. Sure, he could get more ... I never said guys never take less. My point is they want an offer that is close to their value. All the examples used were guys with diminished value (save Pedrooia). Even if they are still good or great players, even Peyton.

Btw, I want to be Lebron's agent! I would not let this shit fly ... Jammy. You can spin all the koom-bya stuff you want. Other players should take cuts and make sacrifices to play with Bron not the other way around ...

You said, "no player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is."

You didn't say, "no superstar player in his prime who is the best player in his respective sport."

You said, "no player."

Each example I gave fits.

There is no spinning involved here.

[Killakobe81]

You said, "no player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is."

You didn't say, "no superstar player in his prime who is the best player in his respective sport."

You said, "no player."

Each example I gave fits.

There is no spinning involved here.

But my point Jam is that the examples you gave were players that value had diminished. I am asking you would those players take the deals they took in their prime. And I do stand by my statement as well. Yes players take money below market value ... there are plenty examples of ring chasers and stars like Pedroia that give hometown discounts. But they still in most cases take something that they feel is "fair". Maybe it's because they are older and have made plenty of money or to help a team. Maybe I phrased my response poorly, but the fact remains we were discussing Lebron in his prime taking what I believe is far below his value because of both the restrictions in the provision of the CBA and also because the market has pushed up salaries of players that are no where close to his value or production to his salary range. I still stand by that. Whether you feel he is overpaid, a saint for taking less I just feel it's a stupid system and I dont care how much he makes off the court. NBA is making so much more off him.

And the spin comment was directed at you per se, it was really meant at the thread with comments about his mentality or outlook (was that chinook). someone with leverage is never wrong to seek out their true worth imho

[baseline bum]

I just can't believe $70 million for Bledsoe. That's way too much based on only 1/2 a season of quality production even if you could guarantee me he'd have no more serious injuries. But factoring in his injury history that deal is ludicrous. I'd have let him walk for nothing before handing out that contract.

[JamStone]

But my point Jam is that the examples you gave were players that value had diminished. I am asking you would those players take the deals they took in their prime. And I do stand by my statement as well. Yes players take money below market value ... there are plenty examples of ring chasers and stars like Pedroia that give hometown discounts. But they still in most cases take something that they feel is "fair". Maybe it's because they are older and have made plenty of money or to help a team. Maybe I phrased my response poorly, but the fact remains we were discussing Lebron in his prime taking what I believe is far below his value because of both the restrictions in the provision of the CBA and also because the market has pushed up salaries of players that are no where close to his value or production to his salary range. I still stand by that. Whether you feel he is overpaid, a saint for taking less I just feel it's a stupid system and I dont care how much he makes off the court. NBA is making so much more off him.

And the spin comment was directed at you per se, it was really meant at the thread with comments about his mentality or outlook (was that chinook). someone with leverage is never wrong to seek out their true worth imho

It's not a matter of whether the value of those players had diminished. It's whether they believed they were worth more than what they took. Now neither you nor I can get into the heads of these players to truly say with any certainty what they believe their true value is/was at the time of those contract signings, but I can say with certainty that each of my examples were ones with players who could have gotten more money. So it's about them taking less than what they could have gotten.

I can acquiesce to disregard the Peyton Manning example because he was coming off of the neck injury. However, it is fact that he could have gotten more from the Broncos because they offered more. And while it's just my opinion, I am fairly certain Peyton had full faith in his ability and that he was worth any amount of money the Broncos were willing to pay. I believe they threw out an obnoxious salary at him and he went back to Elway and said something to the effect that they can just pay him the same exact salary as Tom Brady and not a penny more. I believe that's what I did.

With Tim Duncan, I'm not talking about his current contract where he's getting something like $10 million a year. Back in 2007, after the Spurs had just won their 4th title with Duncan winning another Finals MVP, Duncan and the Spurs agreed on an extension. This was when Duncan was still 31 years old and very much in his prime, and again coming off a championship. He left something like $11 million on the table to enable the Spurs some financial flexibility for future free agents. He took a lot less money, while still in his prime.

Dirk's current situation may be more of a stretch since he's already 36 years old. But then again, we're talking about a guy who is still a superstar and who last year put up per minute production that was right in line with his MVP season statistics with the exception of his rebounding. And when you look at how much less he took, it's dramatic. Even at Dirk's advanced age, is he really only worth $8 million a year? That's taking a ginormous paycut. You don't think he could have gotten more? You don't think he thinks he could have gotten more? You don't think he's worth more than $8 million a year?

"No player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is." Well, those players did imo. Not about being in their prime. Not about being the best player in the game. It's about players taking less than what they think they're worth. And there are examples.

Could LeBron make more money? Sure. Should LeBron make more money when we see the money guys like Eric Bledsoe get? Sure. But you're also talking about a guy in LeBron who has made over $130 million in NBA salary already and who's made that many times over in endorsement deals. The flaws in the NBA salary structure and the stupidity of owners handing out contracts like these and others like the Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas contracts doesn't really affect a media, cultural megastar icon like LeBron. It just doesn't. It's not really his fight.

[Killakobe81]

It's not a matter of whether the value of those players had diminished. It's whether they believed they were worth more than what they took. Now neither you nor I can get into the heads of these players to truly say with any certainty what they believe their true value is/was at the time of those contract signings, but I can say with certainty that each of my examples were ones with players who could have gotten more money. So it's about them taking less than what they could have gotten.

I can acquiesce to disregard the Peyton Manning example because he was coming off of the neck injury. However, it is fact that he could have gotten more from the Broncos because they offered more. And while it's just my opinion, I am fairly certain Peyton had full faith in his ability and that he was worth any amount of money the Broncos were willing to pay. I believe they threw out an obnoxious salary at him and he went back to Elway and said something to the effect that they can just pay him the same exact salary as Tom Brady and not a penny more. I believe that's what I did.

With Tim Duncan, I'm not talking about his current contract where he's getting something like $10 million a year. Back in 2007, after the Spurs had just won their 4th title with Duncan winning another Finals MVP, Duncan and the Spurs agreed on an extension. This was when Duncan was still 31 years old and very much in his prime, and again coming off a championship. He left something like $11 million on the table to enable the Spurs some financial flexibility for future free agents. He took a lot less money, while still in his prime.

Dirk's current situation may be more of a stretch since he's already 36 years old. But then again, we're talking about a guy who is still a superstar and who last year put up per minute production that was right in line with his MVP season statistics with the exception of his rebounding. And when you look at how much less he took, it's dramatic. Even at Dirk's advanced age, is he really only worth $8 million a year? That's taking a ginormous paycut. You don't think he could have gotten more? You don't think he thinks he could have gotten more? You don't think he's worth more than $8 million a year?

"No player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is." Well, those players did imo. Not about being in their prime. Not about being the best player in the game. It's about players taking less than what they think they're worth. And there are examples.

Could LeBron make more money? Sure. Should LeBron make more money when we see the money guys like Eric Bledsoe get? Sure. But you're also talking about a guy in LeBron who has made over $130 million in NBA salary already and who's made that many times over in endorsement deals. The flaws in the NBA salary structure and the stupidity of owners handing out contracts like these and others like the Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas contracts doesn't really affect a media, cultural megastar icon like LeBron. It just doesn't. It's not really his fight.

Fair points, but like I said in my reply above ... I never meant to imply there are never player like Tim or Pedroia that offer hometown discounts ... I should have added the term "fair value" to illustrate that better. But even without "fair" are you telling me that Tim duncan if he could have gotten more but also helped the team he would not have taken that route? I think we all agree he is unselfish and a team and community guy again I am just saying that to me it doesnt make sense for Ducan in the deal you mentioned having to sacrifice while a guy that joined a few seasons later like RJ gets what he does for producing much less?

For me it all comes back to the stupidity of the owners. Every CBA negotiations in all sports they argue that they need to control costs for the good of the league. And so they put in provisions to do so. But right after they throw out huge contracts to non superstars like candy. Maybe some of this is a bit personal because I went through a layoff in the banking industry a few years back, but i just strongly feel that a player like James or prime duncan no matter how much he made previously or makes off the courts shouldnt have to suffer (relative) and sacrifice so owners can pay cats like Bledsoe. Just like in corporate america they tell you that budgets are tight but pay CEO golden parachutes and woo client in expensive ways. It's all bullshit. I just dont trust them greedy bastards so I guess when I feel a player like James is getting an unfair deal I side with them.

Good news is the Spurs have mostly avoided most of this they win but are careful with spending. And that's because they have great ownership and leadership. But they still made the RJ trade/Signing so even they are not perfect. Maybe Tim is so self-less that it does not bother him a scrub like RJ was making bank but I have no shame admitting that it would bother me.

Back to Lebron I also stand by statement it bothers James despite him leaving the max deal structure to go to Miami. the comments about Miggy, even the comments floated through his camp about him never being the highest paid player on the team ...that is just voicing what I believe to be his thoughts. Will he make that fight? No because he will look like an ass. But he should even if not for himself but for the next superstar who is getting taken advantage of by that system. I know it's crazy to say that when the NBA platform is a big part of why he is famous but I still feel it is unfair to him.

I Appreciate you keeping it classy as always Jam, and even though we disagree some here, I always appreciate your insight. And again I freely admit I could have worded my thought better.


Oh by the way (not at you) I am so "salty" about Lebron calling him a GOAT arguing he is being screwed over by league ... Im such a hater!!!! so insecure, so threatened!!!

[cd021]

Eh, they'll probably get in over Memphis if they can stay reasonably healthy.

I agree, though, that the cap rising is going to change the way people see a lot of deals. As I said in another thread, the MLE in 2017 should be in the $30M/4 range. So Eric's deal will be closer to a $55M/5 in terms of impact on the cap.

The problem is obviously that if Bledsoe can't stay healthy or doesn't continue to improve, then he'll be a bad contract no matter how you want to look at it. That's why the Suns would be smart to trade him off to a team like Minny come the 15th of January.

I disagree on Memphis missing the postseason over Phoenix.

I still think Memphis will make the postseason over Phoenix. I don't think Phoenix is a bad team but i'm skeptical that they can repeat their success from last season. I could see them missing the postseason by 3 or 4 games.

They went 36-15 in 2014 and 32-13 (.711) after Gasol came back in mid-January. They struggled a bit early on with several new rotation players and a new coach but played very well after that.

I think Houston missing the postseason is more of a possibility of any of the western conference playoffs teams from last season.

Not much scoring punch or a bench. Also Howard just hasn't been the same player he was during the 10'-'11 season on either sides of the ball.

[Killakobe81]

But my point Jam is that the examples you gave were players that value had diminished. I am asking you would those players take the deals they took in their prime. And I do stand by my statement as well. Yes players take money below market value ... there are plenty examples of ring chasers and stars like Pedroia that give hometown discounts. But they still in most cases take something that they feel is "fair". Maybe it's because they are older and have made plenty of money or to help a team. Maybe I phrased my response poorly, but the fact remains we were discussing Lebron in his prime taking what I believe is far below his value because of both the restrictions in the provision of the CBA and also because the market has pushed up salaries of players that are no where close to his value or production to his salary range. I still stand by that. Whether you feel he is overpaid, a saint for taking less I just feel it's a stupid system and I dont care how much he makes off the court. NBA is making so much more off him.

And the spin comment was directed at you per se, it was really meant at the thread with comments about his mentality or outlook (was that chinook). someone with leverage is never wrong to seek out their true worth imho

Well, well well ...

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11654868/lebron-james-wants-nba-players-taken-care-now-new-tv-deal-place

1. Lebron is rightfully hinting just like I said not just fighting for himself (though I am sure that is part of it) but all players.
2. I told yall the comments about the max contacts signed in other sports Lebron had noticed ...
3. Sure he makes plenty on endorsements but why should he take less when owners getting huge TV money and overpaying scrubs
4. He signed a short deal so he could benefit from new TV deal
5. Again he has ever right to feel the above ... he by far the best player in the game he is not Dirk, Tim or even Kobe ...

[Killakobe81]

Fair points, but like I said in my reply above ... I never meant to imply there are never player like Tim or Pedroia that offer hometown discounts ... I should have added the term "fair value" to illustrate that better. But even without "fair" are you telling me that Tim duncan if he could have gotten more but also helped the team he would not have taken that route? I think we all agree he is unselfish and a team and community guy again I am just saying that to me it doesnt make sense for Ducan in the deal you mentioned having to sacrifice while a guy that joined a few seasons later like RJ gets what he does for producing much less?

For me it all comes back to the stupidity of the owners. Every CBA negotiations in all sports they argue that they need to control costs for the good of the league. And so they put in provisions to do so. But right after they throw out huge contracts to non superstars like candy. Maybe some of this is a bit personal because I went through a layoff in the banking industry a few years back, but i just strongly feel that a player like James or prime duncan no matter how much he made previously or makes off the courts shouldnt have to suffer (relative) and sacrifice so owners can pay cats like Bledsoe. Just like in corporate america they tell you that budgets are tight but pay CEO golden parachutes and woo client in expensive ways. It's all bullshit. I just dont trust them greedy bastards so I guess when I feel a player like James is getting an unfair deal I side with them.

Good news is the Spurs have mostly avoided most of this they win but are careful with spending. And that's because they have great ownership and leadership. But they still made the RJ trade/Signing so even they are not perfect. Maybe Tim is so self-less that it does not bother him a scrub like RJ was making bank but I have no shame admitting that it would bother me.

Back to Lebron I also stand by statement it bothers James despite him leaving the max deal structure to go to Miami. the comments about Miggy, even the comments floated through his camp about him never being the highest paid player on the team ...that is just voicing what I believe to be his thoughts. Will he make that fight? No because he will look like an ass. But he should even if not for himself but for the next superstar who is getting taken advantage of by that system. I know it's crazy to say that when the NBA platform is a big part of why he is famous but I still feel it is unfair to him.



I Appreciate you keeping it classy as always Jam, and even though we disagree some here, I always appreciate your insight. And again I freely admit I could have worded my thought better.


Oh by the way (not at you) I am so "salty" about Lebron calling him a GOAT arguing he is being screwed over by league ... Im such a hater!!!! so insecure, so threatened!!!

I may have done a poor job of expressing to Jam all of this a few weeks back ... here are some highlights:

1. LeBron James might not hold an official title within the National Basketball Players Association, but his standing as the league's best player put him in an important position to speak about the new television rights deal.

"I am kind of the guy that has the power, I guess, without even having to put a name on it," James said Monday after the league announced a nine-year extension of its TV deal with ESPN and TNT that begins in 2016-17. "I'm very educated and I will use what I have to make sure our players are taken care of."

2. James said that the new TV deal, along with a spate of teams being sold for unprecedented sums (the Los Angeles Clippers went for $2 billion in July), will cause the players to dig in for their rightful portion of the profits this time around.

"The whole thing that went on with the last negotiation process was the owners was telling us that they were losing money. There's no way they can sit in front of us and tell us that right now after we continue to see teams selling for billions of dollars, being purchased for $200 million, [selling] for 550 [million], 750 [million], $2 billion," James said. "And now [Mikhail] Prokhorov is possibly selling his majority stake in the Nets for over a billion. So, that will not fly with us this time."

3. While the current CBA seems to be skewed in the owners' favor, James said that getting a deal done in order to salvage a 66-game shortened season in 2010-11 led to the explosion in revenue the league is seeing today.

"I think it was a good deal," James said. "I think you can always want more and give less. But I think both sides kind of benefited from it, as you see in this new TV deal. Both sides continue to grow it, but there's some things that we'd like to see changed as players going forward."

One of those changes could be the NBPA pursuing the abolition of max contracts. James would not comment on his stance on the subject; however, reporters including ESPN's Brian Windhorst have intimated that the increase or removal of max contracts is indeed on James' agenda for the next CBA.

"I don't even really get into speculation conversations in my name," James said.


Like I said in this thread of course he doesnt want to come off as greedy and I do believe he cares about his fellow players. But of course he got screwed in the last deal and he expects to get taken care of properly in the next one.

[Killakobe81]

It's not a matter of whether the value of those players had diminished. It's whether they believed they were worth more than what they took. Now neither you nor I can get into the heads of these players to truly say with any certainty what they believe their true value is/was at the time of those contract signings, but I can say with certainty that each of my examples were ones with players who could have gotten more money. So it's about them taking less than what they could have gotten.

I can acquiesce to disregard the Peyton Manning example because he was coming off of the neck injury. However, it is fact that he could have gotten more from the Broncos because they offered more. And while it's just my opinion, I am fairly certain Peyton had full faith in his ability and that he was worth any amount of money the Broncos were willing to pay. I believe they threw out an obnoxious salary at him and he went back to Elway and said something to the effect that they can just pay him the same exact salary as Tom Brady and not a penny more. I believe that's what I did.

With Tim Duncan, I'm not talking about his current contract where he's getting something like $10 million a year. Back in 2007, after the Spurs had just won their 4th title with Duncan winning another Finals MVP, Duncan and the Spurs agreed on an extension. This was when Duncan was still 31 years old and very much in his prime, and again coming off a championship. He left something like $11 million on the table to enable the Spurs some financial flexibility for future free agents. He took a lot less money, while still in his prime.

Dirk's current situation may be more of a stretch since he's already 36 years old. But then again, we're talking about a guy who is still a superstar and who last year put up per minute production that was right in line with his MVP season statistics with the exception of his rebounding. And when you look at how much less he took, it's dramatic. Even at Dirk's advanced age, is he really only worth $8 million a year? That's taking a ginormous paycut. You don't think he could have gotten more? You don't think he thinks he could have gotten more? You don't think he's worth more than $8 million a year?

"No player wants to get paid below what they feel their value is." Well, those players did imo. Not about being in their prime. Not about being the best player in the game. It's about players taking less than what they think they're worth. And there are examples.

Could LeBron make more money? Sure. Should LeBron make more money when we see the money guys like Eric Bledsoe get? Sure. But you're also talking about a guy in LeBron who has made over $130 million in NBA salary already and who's made that many times over in endorsement deals. The flaws in the NBA salary structure and the stupidity of owners handing out contracts like these and others like the Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas contracts doesn't really affect a media, cultural megastar icon like LeBron. It just doesn't. It's not really his fight.

It's not?!

[Killakobe81]

this. The NBA salary structure is dumb. IF i was Lebron I would take a very different stance come next negotiations.

Bump

[angrydude]

The suns aren't trying to win anything. They're trying to be competitive to sell season tickets.

[baseline bum]

this. The NBA salary structure is dumb. IF i was Lebron I would take a very different stance come next negotiations.

Good luck with that, since there are a lot of well paid midlevel players with lots of union votes who don't want to see their money going to LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Stephen Curry, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, LaMarcus Aldridge, and James Harden.

[Killakobe81]

Good luck with that, since there are a lot of well paid midlevel players with lots of union votes who don't want to see their money going to LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Stephen Curry, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, LaMarcus Aldridge, and James Harden.

Yes but you thinking small. There are plenty of mid level guys that think they are worth top level money. Who wants to get max capped if they breakout? And how can they look LeBron in the face when he has to sacrifice for them when owners making money hand over fist?

[Killakobe81]

Trust me the guys you mentioned will have more voice than the bottom union guys who many don't attend union meetings and are barely hanging on.

[Chinook]

Yes but you thinking small. There are plenty of mid level guys that think they are worth top level money. Who wants to get max capped if they breakout? And how can they look LeBron in the face when he has to sacrifice for them when owners making money hand over fist?

No max = the end of the middle class. Look at the NFL. No way players let that happen because they feel sorry for James.

And Lebron isn't "sacrificing" for players any more than they're sacrificing for him. No one on the Lebron Heat made market value except maybe Haslem. Some players took contracts with half the APY other teams offering. James already showed he couldn't do it by himself, so it makes little sense to argue that he should get more of the cap from any team that wants to win. We just saw a team of players on mid-level contracts beat a team with high income disparity. If anything, that might encourage the lowering of the max (relatively speaking) to force teams to have more balanced rosters.


Trust me the guys you mentioned will have more voice than the bottom union guys who many don't attend union meetings and are barely hanging on.

Their votes still count for the same.

[Killakobe81]

No max = the end of the middle class. Look at the NFL. No way players let that happen because they feel sorry for James.

And Lebron isn't "sacrificing" for players any more than they're sacrificing for him. No one on the Lebron Heat made market value except maybe Haslem. Some players took contracts with half the APY other teams offering. James already showed he couldn't do it by himself, so it makes little sense to argue that he should get more of the cap from any team that wants to win. We just saw a team of players on mid-level contracts beat a team with high income disparity. If anything, that might encourage the lowering of the max (relatively speaking) to force teams to have more balanced rosters.



Their votes still count for the same.

1. I doubt we see end of max ceiling, but I do think it goes up.
2. I guess many here don't see it but yes he is.They dont have the power like he said in the interview, he does. In a free market system everyone knows Lebron would get paid A LOT more money. Yes I agree it could hurt the middle class to pay stars more but we just saw how dumb owners have overpaid the middle class like the upper class. Hayward, bledsoe etc. SO again those guys are getting inflated contracts and he is getting a deflated one. Yes that is great for those guys, Parsons etc but why should the money not go to the top level producers? System is broken when those guys are getting overpaid and Lebron is under paid.
3. yes, votes are all the same but it's a star driven league. some players have taken short-term deals to see how TV money shakes out. Most of these guys wanna get paid like stars so why would they be against having the salary roof for stars raised?

[Killakobe81]

And you can disagree with it ... I just told you scros where Lebron's head was at maybe he doesnt get his way and Union /Owners asks him to "take one" for the good of the league ...

But he already proved my point by voicing his thoughts on the matter.
And you guys bought all that oh he doesnt care about money all he wants to do is ring. and his endorsements are enough ....bullshit. He is being denied his full earning potential and he knows it. He wants to win they ALL do. But he also wants fair value for his talent.

[Chinook]

1. I doubt we see end of max ceiling, but I do think it goes up.

The max is pretty much where it's been for 10 years, save for the addition of the Rose-max. The difference is that the size of raises is smaller now than it was in the 2005 CBA. That may go back up, but it's also possible that that would happen in conjunction with lowering the max, which would further encourage players to re-sign with their current teams.


2. I guess many here don't see it but yes he is.They dont jabe the power like he said in the interview, he does. In a free market system everyone knows Lebron would get paid A LOT more money. Yes I agree it could hurt the middle class to pay stars more but we just saw how dumb owners have overpaid the middle class like the upper class. Hayward, bledsoe etc. SO again those guys are getting inflated contracts and he is getting a deflated one. Yes that is great for those guys, Parsons etc but why should the money not go to the top level producers? System is broken when those guys are getting overpaid and Lebron is under paid.

And his teams would lose. So he's not worth it from a basketball perspective. We can talk about stars all we want, but you need middle-class players to win. Giving stars more money at the expense of solid role-players would just further the advantage teams like the Spurs would have over the rest of the league.

And James needs to keep his eyes on his own team. That's the only thing that should determine if he's overpaid or underpaid. A team like Dallas simply had the money to give Parsons a max deal. They weren't going to spend it anywhere else. NBA contracts (and indeed any type of budgeting) is about opportunity cost. Parsons' making $14 Million a year was not prohibitive to Dallas, which is why he got it. James making $35 Million a year would be extremely prohibitive to his teams, which is why owners won't let him get it, AND why James himself shouldn't demand it.


3. yes, votes are all the same but it's a star driven league. some players have taken short-term deals to see how TV money shakes out. Most of these guys wanna get paid like stars so why would they be against having the salary roof for stars raised?

The NBA is the least star-driven league in the country from a salary perspective. That's because players don't want to get rid of the MLE in order to raise the max. It simply doesn't make sense for the average player to give up $20 Million now in hopes of earning an extra $10-20 Million if they happen to become stars in a few years. That's completely different from what players like Stephenson did. Those players are banking on the increased cap leading to players of their caliber getting a raise (like Lance's $9M APY under this CBA may be a $12M APY under the next one). Those players are absolutely not interested in giving up their paydays to increase the max.

Simply put, higher APYs mean fewer large contracts. Fewer large contracts mean smaller percentage of players getting life-time financial security. No way any non-elite player is going to vote for that, not even the Bledsoes or Stephensons of the league.

[Killakobe81]

The max is pretty much where it's been for 10 years, save for the addition of the Rose-max. The difference is that the size of raises is smaller now than it was in the 2005 CBA. That may go back up, but it's also possible that that would happen in conjunction with lowering the max, which would further encourage players to re-sign with their current teams.



And his teams would lose. So he's not worth it from a basketball perspective. We can talk about stars all we want, but you need middle-class players to win. Giving stars more money at the expense of solid role-players would just further the advantage teams like the Spurs would have over the rest of the league.

And James needs to keep his eyes on his own team. That's the only thing that should determine if he's overpaid or underpaid. A team like Dallas simply had the money to give Parsons a max deal. They weren't going to spend it anywhere else. NBA contracts (and indeed any type of budgeting) is about opportunity cost. Parsons' making $14 Million a year was not prohibitive to Dallas, which is why he got it. James making $35 Million a year would be extremely prohibitive to his teams, which is why owners won't let him get it, AND why James himself shouldn't demand it.



The NBA is the least star-driven league in the country from a salary perspective. That's because players don't want to get rid of the MLE in order to raise the max. It simply doesn't make sense for the average player to give up $20 Million now in hopes of earning an extra $10-20 Million if they happen to become stars in a few years. That's completely different from what players like Stephenson did. Those players are banking on the increased cap leading to players of their caliber getting a raise (like Lance's $9M APY under this CBA may be a $12M APY under the next one). Those players are absolutely not interested in giving up their paydays to increase the max.

Simply put, higher APYs mean fewer large contracts. Fewer large contracts mean smaller percentage of players getting life-time financial security. No way any non-elite player is going to vote for that, not even the Bledsoes or Stephensons of the league.

Some great points but you give the owners too much credit. No matter what the structure is Owners have shown time and time again they will overpay players. stars get franchise type contracts and role players get paid like stars. How does the current system work in a team's favor? I would rather overpay Bledsoe than pay more of that money to Lebron?

Again the Spurs have done a great job of paying the right guys. The heat may have lost to the Spurs but was not their big 3 system a success? they won 2 titles and made 4 finals in a row ... And beat the spurs the previous season .. so If I have a choice Im taking the Heat way, even if building the spur way is more conducive to long-term success. From a basketball perspective it makes sense to bolster the middle class, but to me no system makes sense when you are overpaying role players at the expense of stars. And I dont get how it's not a star driven league salary or otherwise. the contracts are guaranteed so the true stars or even the role players that are paid like one dominate the majority of most team's salary caps.

[Killakobe81]

The max is pretty much where it's been for 10 years, save for the addition of the Rose-max. The difference is that the size of raises is smaller now than it was in the 2005 CBA. That may go back up, but it's also possible that that would happen in conjunction with lowering the max, which would further encourage players to re-sign with their current teams.



And his teams would lose. So he's not worth it from a basketball perspective. We can talk about stars all we want, but you need middle-class players to win. Giving stars more money at the expense of solid role-players would just further the advantage teams like the Spurs would have over the rest of the league.

And James needs to keep his eyes on his own team. That's the only thing that should determine if he's overpaid or underpaid. A team like Dallas simply had the money to give Parsons a max deal. They weren't going to spend it anywhere else. NBA contracts (and indeed any type of budgeting) is about opportunity cost. Parsons' making $14 Million a year was not prohibitive to Dallas, which is why he got it. James making $35 Million a year would be extremely prohibitive to his teams, which is why owners won't let him get it, AND why James himself shouldn't demand it.



The NBA is the least star-driven league in the country from a salary perspective. That's because players don't want to get rid of the MLE in order to raise the max. It simply doesn't make sense for the average player to give up $20 Million now in hopes of earning an extra $10-20 Million if they happen to become stars in a few years. That's completely different from what players like Stephenson did. Those players are banking on the increased cap leading to players of their caliber getting a raise (like Lance's $9M APY under this CBA may be a $12M APY under the next one). Those players are absolutely not interested in giving up their paydays to increase the max.

Simply put, higher APYs mean fewer large contracts. Fewer large contracts mean smaller percentage of players getting life-time financial security. No way any non-elite player is going to vote for that, not even the Bledsoes or Stephensons of the league.

The trouble for the Mavericks is that Parsons, like two of the other top-five targets on Dallas' list, was a dreaded restricted free agent, which put them at great risk to strike out again. But they went into July anyway with the plan to chase Melo and LeBron for as long as it made sense ... and then to zero in on the most gettable of the three restricteds they coveted.

Those three: Gordon Hayward, Eric Bledsoe and the kid from Casselberry, Florida, who says he used to "wear Dirk jerseys to Orlando games" as a kid whenever the Mavs were in town.

"LeBron and Melo, those are long shots," Cuban concedes. "But you do 'em because you have to run things out. People give you a hard time when you don't get this person or that person, but you never win any games you don't play. And in the worst case you develop a relationship for the next time something comes up. It's as much about trying to develop relationships as it is about trying to hit the home run.

"When it comes to restricted free agency, you look at what it takes to get the player away and you can't pay less than that. We went through and looked at all the numbers and all the permutations, and we realized that the pricing for free agents in this market was going to be far more than anybody expected, just because of how cap room was playing out and who the free agents were." Via ESPN


No, Cubes was going to pay someone. He Wanted to pay Lebron and like most owners do overpay someone else less deserving when they strike-out.

[Chinook]

How does the current system work in a team's favor? I would rather overpay Bledsoe than pay more of that money to Lebron?

Yes. Bledsoe at $14 Million and James at $20 Million is much better than Bledsoe at $3 Million and James at $31 Million. Even if you disregard everything else, it allows teams to keep more good players. Eric is worth more than $3 Million (probably in the $7 Million range), so some other team was going to give it to him. James may (or may not) be worth $31 Million, but since no one could give him that, a team could afford to sign him and Bledsoe.


The heat may have lost to the Spurs but was not their big 3 system a success?

The Heat system is not what a max-less league would go toward. Everyone on the Heat took less, especially the non-stars. That's why they had a few mid-level contracts on their books. No way the Heatles happen if there were no max salaries, because then the stars would have been giving up $50 Million as opposed to $10 Million or so.


No, Cubes was going to pay someone. He Wanted to pay Lebron and like most owners do overpay someone else less deserving when they strike-out.

Exactly the reason why James can't judge his value based on what other teams do. The NBA is not a free market in a lot of ways, and most of those ways have nothing to do with players' earning rights. Players get overpaid because the league is an association of 30 separate businesses with their own budgets and expectations. Dallas wanted to spend the money, so they did. That would have been the case no matter how much James got.

The only people who could affect how much James gets is his own teammates (although they didn't affect him this year for obvious reasons) with whom his has to split the salary cap/apron. But while there's an argument that James is worth $35 Million, there's little argument that he's worth more than half a team's salary cap.

[Killakobe81]

Yes. Bledsoe at $14 Million and James at $20 Million is much better than Bledsoe at $3 Million and James at $31 Million. Even if you disregard everything else, it allows teams to keep more good players. Eric is worth more than $3 Million (probably in the $7 Million range), so some other team was going to give it to him. James may (or may not) be worth $31 Million, but since no one could give him that, a team could afford to sign him and Bledsoe.



The Heat system is not what a max-less league would go toward. Everyone on the Heat took less, especially the non-stars. That's why they had a few mid-level contracts on their books. No way the Heatles happen if there were no max salaries, because then the stars would have been giving up $50 Million as opposed to $10 Million or so.



Exactly the reason why James can't judge his value based on what other teams do. The NBA is not a free market in a lot of ways, and most of those ways have nothing to do with players' earning rights. Players get overpaid because the league is an association of 30 separate businesses with their own budgets and expectations. Dallas wanted to spend the money, so they did. That would have been the case no matter how much James got.

The only people who could affect how much James gets is his own teammates (although they didn't affect him this year for obvious reasons) with whom his has to split the salary cap/apron. But while there's an argument that James is worth $35 Million, there's little argument that he's worth more than half a team's salary cap.

Chinook. I dont disagree with your team building philosophy. Based on the current rules your mind-set makes sense. But as the absolutely best player in the game, those rules are unfair to Lebron. In reality a team should be able to go over the cap to pay a legit franchise star like Lebron that is the only thing we disagree on here. and As James says in the article through his flunky Windhorst he has an issue with that as well ... right or wrong.

And if the by-product is no Heatles ...is that a bad thing? With no Heatles Spurs probably sitting on 6 titles right now ...

[Chinook]

In reality a team should be able to go over the cap to pay a legit franchise star like Lebron that is the only thing we disagree on here.

We do. It simply does not make sense to take out the max in a salary-cap era. Lebron may feel slighted, but he's also selfish if he can serious look his teammates in the eyes and say they should give some of their money to him. He's the best player in the world by far, but he's still not good enough to sacrifice several key role-players just to make him a little more happy.


And if the by-product is no Heatles ...is that a bad thing? With no Heatles Spurs probably sitting on 6 titles right now

The Spurs would be working on a four-peat if there was no max. Although it's possible that Tim would have taken so much in 2000/2003 that Parker and Ginobili left (to get huge contracts with other teams as well), which would have completely busted this Spurs era. There wouldn't be multi-superstar teams in a maxless league. There'd be more teams like the Knicks with a single star surrounded by crap or ephemeral teams with star players on rookie deals.