Parker jealousy continues

[testies]

"Were you amazed that Patty Mills played so well in the finals with a torn rotator cuff?"

Enrique : "Uhh, not really, I've played with that injury before, its not that bad"

in some interview that I saw on espn

[Russo21]

bloody hell the spurs are imploding before our eyes lol

[MI21]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/Tony%20presse%20portrait%20doudoune%20valid.JPG

[100%duncan]

Uhhh k

[ceperez]

"Were you amazed that Patty Mills played so well in the finals with a torn rotator cuff?"

Enrique : "Uhh, not really, I've played with that injury before, its not that bad"

in some interview that I saw on espn

Well he's likely telling the truth... its a kind of injury that doesn't affect performance.

[boutons_deux]

Well he's likely telling the truth... its a kind of injury that doesn't affect performance.

it clearly didn't affect Patty's playoff work

[SupremeGuy]

Reminds me of when he sounded downright annoyed that Green was breaking NBA finals records 2 years ago, tbh.

:cry Pop says I'm the leader of the team now :cry
:cry please guys give me more credit :cry

[mudyez]

Truth be told: It wasn't TP9 that iced game 5 of the '14Finals...Ayers scored the last basket!

[mkurts]

Did anyone ask Parker how he was able to play so well in the playoffs with the grade 1 strain ?

[spurraider21]

"Were you amazed that Patty Mills played so well in the finals with a torn rotator cuff?"

Enrique : "Uhh, not really, I've played with that injury before, its not that bad"

in some interview that I saw on espn
6

[ElNono]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...

[exstatic]

Trolls just trollin'...

[Sean Cagney]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...

It is just flat out stupid IMO, your fave team has a HOF PG and you always hate on him. It is Manu fans at times that do it (You are a good one) as if it is some competition. I am guessing they are from another country alot of times and just have this chip on their shoulder? Either or this is our fave team and hating on a legend who will hang in the raptors one day and helped you to 4 titles is just flat out ridiculous. I can see if it were Ayers or even hell BONNER, but Tony? I don't get it.

[Mikeanaro]

Where is Bruno?

[Halberto]

Get a fuckin life OP

[HI-FI]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...
co-signed

[SpurPadre]

It is just flat out stupid IMO, your fave team has a HOF PG and you always hate on him. It is Manu fans at times that do it (You are a good one) as if it is some competition. I am guessing they are from another country alot of times and just have this chip on their shoulder? Either or this is our fave team and hating on a legend who will hang in the raptors one day and helped you to 4 titles is just flat out ridiculous. I can see if it were Ayers or even hell BONNER, but Tony? I don't get it.

I agree with everything except for the reluctance on Bonner, lol. Come on, that guy is easy to hate.

[Sean Cagney]

I agree with everything except for the reluctance on Bonner, lol. Come on, that guy is easy to hate.

I am not a fan of Bonner at all, some got mad at me before for voicing my opinion on that guy and said I was hating etc. I think he sucks and we went far the last few years because he was played minimal and only to his role, no doubt I agree with you there.

[Emperor]

We will all realize just how important this guy has been for us when he is finally retired. I too have taken him for granted sometimes.

[Brunodf]

We will all realize just how important this guy has been for us when he is finally retired. I too have taken him for granted sometimes.
I know right, thank god we re-signed him cheap, hopefully he will perform as well as last season when he comes back.

3yr/13mil will look like a bargain if he does tbh.

[BatManu20]

Parker-haters are tards. Any team would be happy to have him and his 4 rings. Be glad we do.

[Dex]

Best PG the Spurs have ever had.

[DesignatedT]

He's actually right. I currently have a partially torn rotator cuff going on three years now and have played basketball with it regularly. It's a little uncomfortable at times and during certain movements but it's not painful.

It does affect performance during other things though like bench press, push-ups, throwing a baseball etc... for whatever reason the shooting a basketball motion doesn't trigger it though.

[CitizenDwayne]

a legend who will hang in the raptors one day

[romain.star]

Parker = terminal team-cancer

[SpurSwag]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...

Exactly. The guy has shown time and time again that he really is a team player, yet everyone here spins it as if he's some narcissist that only cares about himself and not the team. He has signed for far less than he's been worth for years now, has never seriously considered leaving, and has played whatever role Pop and the team have needed of him. It amazes me that people can hate on our own starting PG, who has been on the team for over a decade and has been a star for years.

[SpurSwag]

FFS, the guy has either led or been close to leading the league in points in the paint (don't remember if he ever actually led), has vastly improved his midrange game and 3 point shot, has improved as a facilitator and played through injuries all year, but all people talk about is "he's not a great defender" "how dare the player Pop designates as the star of the team take a lot of shots" "give the ball to Kawhi more"

[lefty]

Where is Bruno?
:cry

[lefty]

But TBH, Parker has been a good 4th banana for us

We should be grateful

[jsandiego]

Exactly. The guy has shown time and time again that he really is a team player, yet everyone here spins it as if he's some narcissist that only cares about himself and not the team. He has signed for far less than he's been worth for years now, has never seriously considered leaving, and has played whatever role Pop and the team have needed of him. It amazes me that people can hate on our own starting PG, who has been on the team for over a decade and has been a star for years.
Exactly. And if you think about it, both Tim and Manu were closer to leaving the Spurs than Parker ever was. I don't get this trumped-up competition between Manu/Tony, like we have some Kobe/Shaq feud going on here.

[spurs10]

As an over the top fan of this team I feel extremely grateful to Tony Parker. He is a legendary Spurs player whose name will one day be hanging from the rafters!

[ElNono]

hating on a legend who will hang in the raptors one day

[ColinB]

Wonder who we will get in that trade with the Raptors, tbh?

[Cry Havoc]

Parker will go down, fairly easily, as the 4th best Spurs player of all-time, after DRob, Iceman, and Duncan, respectively.

Haters got their jimmies all aflutter just thinking about it.

[DAF86]

testies is an underrated poster, tbh.

[Kool Bob Love]

Parker will go down, fairly easily, as the 4th best Spurs player of all-time, after DRob, Iceman, and Duncan, respectively.Haters got their jimmies all aflutter just thinking about it.

20>9

and "fairly easily".....how about no.

[Malik Hairston]

Parker will go down, fairly easily, as the 4th best Spurs player of all-time, after DRob, Iceman, and Duncan, respectively.

Haters got their jimmies all aflutter just thinking about it.

Why Parker over Manu, tbh? Just a friendly debate that we've never had here on ST..

I take it that you're only going by regular season, which I could agree with, Tony is a beast regular season player..

[CitizenDwayne]

Why Parker over Manu, tbh?

Something tells me this one is always gonna come down to subjective opinion.

[apalisoc_9]

Something tells me this one is always gonna come down to subjective opinion.

Meh, Manu was always the better Playoff performer, even this year he was better.

Kawhi will probably be the fourth best spur once it's all said and done

[SpurPadre]

The hate on TP is not as bad as the Manu hate, tbh. But they both need to stop, tbh.

[SpurPadre]

Parker will go down, fairly easily, as the 4th best Spurs player of all-time, after DRob, Iceman, and Duncan, respectively.

Haters got their jimmies all aflutter just thinking about it.

Manu can easily make fourth best Spur of all-time argument, too. Iceman himself has vocally called The Big Three and Da Admiral as the four best Spurs players of all-time.

[SpurPadre]

I am not a fan of Bonner at all, some got mad at me before for voicing my opinion on that guy and said I was hating etc. I think he sucks and we went far the last few years because he was played minimal and only to his role, no doubt I agree with you there.

Crazy world we live in where TP and Manu can be hated on by the very same fans who are Bonner apologists.

[Cry Havoc]

Manu can easily make fourth best Spur of all-time argument, too. Iceman himself has vocally called The Big Three and Da Admiral as the four best Spurs players of all-time.

I think a lot of this will come down to the fact that Parker will end up playing ~20 years with the Spurs. He will end up as the #1 assist man in Spurs history by 1600+ assists. Will certainly end as a #3 or higher scorer of all-time, possibly 2nd or even 1st, and was absolutely the best player on the Spurs for several years.

[SpurPadre]

I think a lot of this will come down to the fact that Parker will end up playing ~20 years with the Spurs. He will end up as the #1 assist man in Spurs history by 1600+ assists. Will certainly end as a #3 or higher scorer of all-time, possibly 2nd or even 1st, and was absolutely the best player on the Spurs for several years.

Can't argue with that but it's also important to acknowledge that Pop has held Manu's numbers back by having him off the bench for several years. I know why Pop did it but it still needs to be said.

[illusioNtEk]

Fans for years wanted a scoring point guard.... Now that we do you fucks talk shit.

Comon spurs fans... STFU and enjoy what we got

[Sean Cagney]

Crazy world we live in where TP and Manu can be hated on by the very same fans who are Bonner apologists.

It is a country pride thing I think IMO, some hate the other because they feel the other gets more love or some other crap like he took away from so and so in his career or Tony did not pass enough to him. Sometimes it is some simple dumb crap like that which causes the hate and most of them are from the other country or vice versa as the so called more loved player. I know it is sad and pathetic but thats the way it is and I have seen it or heard it even off this board personally! Other sites as well. It shows you some are more of a fan of the PLAYER rather than the team and probably won't be around or fans when their fave player is retired, infact I would bet on it.
Fans for years wanted a scoring point guard.... Now that we do you fucks talk shit.

Comon spurs fans... STFU and enjoy what we got
I agree and for some ODD reason they can't enjoy what we have at times! I never will get it.
Can't argue with that but it's also important to acknowledge that Pop has held Manu's numbers back by having him off the bench for several years. I know why Pop did it but it still needs to be said.

Hell, it worked though didn't it? Do not forget either he came into the league at 24 years old or so, Parker came into the league at 19 years old so of course his numbers will be alot higher in the end.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

People need drama, its dumb, even when everything goes right, people will find things to bitch about

[CGD]

Hangning in the raptors, huh?

[SupremeGuy]

Parker will go down, fairly easily, as the 4th best Spurs player of all-time, after DRob, Iceman, and Duncan, respectively.

Haters got their jimmies all aflutter just thinking about it.It's really close between him and Gino, tbh. Not as easy as you make it sound. Also, Parker/Gino are just keeping Kawhi's spot warm.

[lefty]

The hate on TP is not as bad as the Manu hate, tbh. But they both need to stop, tbh.
We dont hate TP


We all aknowledge his contribution as the 4th banana tbh

:bobo

[Cry Havoc]

:lol You guys sure are optimistic. Don't get me wrong, Kawhi has all the tools but for every superstar out there that start strong in the NBA there are 50 or 100 Darius Miles'.

[look_at_g_shred]

We dont hate TP


We all aknowledge his contribution as the 4th banana tbh

:bobo

[spurspokesman]

Came here to read the comments:downspin:

[Brazil]

oh look another testies retarded thread


damn... what a surprise

[SupremeGuy]

:lol You guys sure are optimistic. Don't get me wrong, Kawhi has all the tools but for every superstar out there that start strong in the NBA there are 50 or 100 Darius Miles'.Why do you hate Kawhi? :cry

[DAF86]

:lol You guys sure are optimistic. Don't get me wrong, Kawhi has all the tools but for every superstar out there that start strong in the NBA there are 50 or 100 Darius Miles'.

Winning finals MVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 3,54 >>>>>>> "starting strong on the NBA"

[Prose]

Did anyone ask Parker how he was able to play so well in the playoffs with the grade 1 strain ?
but he had to pick and chose when he turned it on. It swells up the next day

[NASpurs]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...

:lol

[Diego20]

20 > 9

[Johnny RIngo]

I think a lot of this will come down to the fact that Parker will end up playing ~20 years with the Spurs. He will end up as the #1 assist man in Spurs history by 1600+ assists. Will certainly end as a #3 or higher scorer of all-time, possibly 2nd or even 1st, and was absolutely the best player on the Spurs for several years.

Manu shits all over Parker when it comes to impacts stats though. Much better in the post-season too.

[Diego20]

It is a country pride thing I think IMO, some hate the other because they feel the other gets more love or some other crap like he took away from so and so in his career or Tony did not pass enough to him. Sometimes it is some simple dumb crap like that which causes the hate and most of them are from the other country or vice versa as the so called more loved player. I know it is sad and pathetic but thats the way it is and I have seen it or heard it even off this board personally! Other sites as well. It shows you some are more of a fan of the PLAYER rather than the team and probably won't be around or fans when their fave player is retired, infact I would bet on it.
I agree and for some ODD reason they can't enjoy what we have at times! I never will get it.

Hell, it worked though didn't it? Do not forget either he came into the league at 24 years old or so, Parker came into the league at 19 years old so of course his numbers will be alot higher in the end.

Actually it didn't work so well for Manu (yes it worked for the team), the only time Manu averaged more than 30 minutes per game was in his best SEASON, 19,5 points per game and he was already 31 years old. What makes me wonder what would have happened if Manu averaged 30 minutes per game in every single season he played with the Spurs. And please don't come with a "Manu is made of glass" stuff. Not even TD averaged 19,5 points per game in a season with more than 31 years old.

[Cry Havoc]

Winning finals MVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 3,54 >>>>>>> "starting strong on the NBA"

Okay, but if we're being completely honest, Kawhi wasn't very good against Dallas or Portland, and was only great in a few games against OKC, if memory serves. It wasn't like he just beasted through the playoffs. Duncan and Parker were better throughout until we got to the Finals.

[Cry Havoc]

Manu shits all over Parker when it comes to impacts stats though. Much better in the post-season too.

Again, in 15 years Parker's numbers will look more impressive than we see them now.

[Sean Cagney]

Actually it didn't work so well for Manu (yes it worked for the team), the only time Manu averaged more than 30 minutes per game was in his best SEASON, 19,5 points per game and he was already 31 years old. What makes me wonder what would have happened if Manu averaged 30 minutes per game in every single season he played with the Spurs. And please don't come with a "Manu is made of glass" stuff. Not even TD averaged 19,5 points per game in a season with more than 31 years old.
So you are more worried about Manus numbers than his 4 rings and helping the team achieve those titles? He got less minutes off the bench yes, but it worked for the TEAM is what I meant and that is what it is about.
Hangning in the raptors, huh?

Yes, right next to Chris Bosh!!!!!!!! :toast

[Malik Hairston]

Okay, but if we're being completely honest, Kawhi wasn't very good against Dallas or Portland, and was only great in a few games against OKC, if memory serves. It wasn't like he just beasted through the playoffs. Duncan and Parker were better throughout until we got to the Finals.

:lol Parker had the 2nd worst on/off metrics of any rotation Spur in the playoffs outside of Belinelli, tbh..

[Brazil]

:lol

one thing is sure, if you want create trafic on a thread, you insert Parker then whatever negative term (content does not matter)

at the opposite if you want a slow mo thread, you insert Parker then positive stuff (here also content does not matter)

[EVAY]

:lol

one thing is sure, if you want create trafic on a thread, you insert Parker then whatever negative term (content does not matter)

at the opposite if you want a slow mo thread, you insert Parker then positive stuff (here also content does not matter)

Pretty much sums up the dynamic of the forum, tbh.

[InRareForm]

f u op

[Diego20]

So you are more worried about Manus numbers than his 4 rings and helping the team achieve those titles? He got less minutes off the bench yes, but it worked for the TEAM is what I meant and that is what it is about.

Yes, right next to Chris Bosh!!!!!!!! :toast

edit nvm

[pikkiwoki]

"Were you amazed that Patty Mills played so well in the finals with a torn rotator cuff?"

Enrique : "Uhh, not really, I've played with that injury before, its not that bad"

in some interview that I saw on espn

Here's the full quote to give it more context:

Reporter: "Can you talk a little bit about Cory and the fact that he's had to get more work in, and with Patty, how important that is?"

TP: "Patty, very sad, you know, his injury, but that's part of basketball, and so we have a lot of confidence in Cory to step up and play big."

Reporter: "Were you kind of amazed at what Patty was able to do in the Finals with a torn rotator cuff?"

TP: "Uhh, but not really, 'cause I've played with bad shoulders before, but I didn't know it was that bad, you know what I mean? So he shot the ball very well to have a bad shoulder like that."

Skip to around 3:42:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spurs/sites/default/files/styles/news_block_medium/public/tonythumb.jpg?itok=N-rSluPC (http://www.nba.com/spurs/training-camp-day-3-tony-parker)
Training Camp Day 3 - Tony Parker (http://www.nba.com/spurs/training-camp-day-3-tony-parker)

[lefty]

:lol Parker had the 2nd worst on/off metrics of any rotation Spur in the playoffs outside of Belinelli, tbh..
:lol oye

[TheGreatYacht]

Manu shits all over Parker when it comes to impacts stats though. Much better in the post-season too.
Show me these stats you speak of... *waits to see usual 2005 stat*

[TheGreatYacht]

Parker has been the best in his position atleast once in his career... Can Turnobili say that? The guy can't play 30MPG without pulling a hammy tbh

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Show me these stats you speak of... *waits to see usual 2005 stat*

07? 11? 06?

Do you even Spur bro?

[DAF86]

Okay, but if we're being completely honest, Kawhi wasn't very good against Dallas or Portland, and was only great in a few games against OKC, if memory serves. It wasn't like he just beasted through the playoffs. Duncan and Parker were better throughout until we got to the Finals.

Parker wasn't better than Kawhi throughout the playoffs. In fact Parker was pretty subpar during most of the PO's, tbh.

[Macca76]

Here's the full quote to give it more context:

Reporter: "Can you talk a little bit about Cory and the fact that he's had to get more work in, and with Patty, how important that is?"

TP: "Patty, very sad, you know, his injury, but that's part of basketball, and so we have a lot of confidence in Cory to step up and play big."



Reporter: "Were you kind of amazed at what Patty was able to do in the Finals with a torn rotator cuff?"

TP: "Uhh, but not really, 'cause I've played with bad shoulders before, but I didn't know it was that bad, you know what I mean? So he shot the ball very well to have a bad shoulder like that."

Skip to around 3:42:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spurs/sites/default/files/styles/news_block_medium/public/tonythumb.jpg?itok=N-rSluPC (http://www.nba.com/spurs/training-camp-day-3-tony-parker)
Training Camp Day 3 - Tony Parker (http://www.nba.com/spurs/training-camp-day-3-tony-parker)


We knew OP had certainly selected the words he wanted so thank you for giving the context.

[mkurts]

:lol Parker had the 2nd worst on/off metrics of any rotation Spur in the playoffs outside of Belinelli, tbh..

Really that bad ? Where is the proof ? Is Manu bad too ?

[Malik Hairston]

Really that bad ? Where is the proof ? Is Manu bad too ?

Manu had the best on/off numbers of any Spurs player in the playoffs IIRC..I haven't checked them since after the Finals, though, I'd have to look it up to confirm..

Pretty sure it was 1. Manu 2. Kawhi 3. DG or Mills

Splitter was #1 through the 1st 2 rounds IIRC, but he wasn't as effective in the final 2 rounds..

[Perry Mason]

Manu had the best on/off numbers of any Spurs player in the playoffs IIRC..I haven't checked them since after the Finals, though, I'd have to look it up to confirm..

Pretty sure it was 1. Manu 2. Kawhi 3. DG or Mills

Splitter was #1 through the 1st 2 rounds IIRC, but he wasn't as effective in the final 2 rounds..

Those stats say far more about lineups and matchups than an individual player's performance. TP had some very good performances in the playoffs, but inconsistent only by his MVParker standards. He was always the floor general and opened up games to get the Spurs in rhythm. Guys like DG don't supernova without Parker and his penetration and initiation of the offense.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Best PG the Spurs have ever had.

Absolutely. It has been painful to watch some of our guard play over the decades. And, we get a fucking ringer, and people nit-pick his flaws.

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol Parker had the 2nd worst on/off metrics of any rotation Spur in the playoffs outside of Belinelli, tbh..

He definitely didn't have playoff runs like he could have. Year before last he was on fire and in MVP talk with LeBron and Durant. We have never had a PG that was good enough to generate that kind of respect. His injuries the last two years have been annoying, but I can live with them vs. not having him.

[Johnny RIngo]

Show me these stats you speak of... *waits to see usual 2005 stat*

Manu career playoff stats:
19.9 - PER
58.2 - TS%
111 - ORtg
103 - DRtg
.170 - WS/48

Parker career playoff stats:
17.2 - PER
51.8 - TS%
103 - ORtg
107 - DRtg
.089 - WS/48

[EVAY]

Manu career playoff stats:
19.9 - PER
58.2 - TS%
111 - ORtg
103 - DRtg
.170 - WS/48

Parker career playoff stats:
17.2 - PER
51.8 - TS%
103 - ORtg
107 - DRtg
.089 - WS/48

Some of the above stats are a function of different positions (pg vs. sg), and some are a function of whether they are playing in the first rotation (and therefore against the stars and best players of the opposing team) or in the second squad, in which until this last year at least, Manu was essentially the ONLY offense for the spurs and did not face the very best defensive player on the opposing team, which Parker often did. I think the more relevant stats are comparing tp with other pgs and Manu with other sgs in the playoffs.

I am a huge fan of Manu, so I don't want my comments to be used as a Parker vs. Manu argument. My only point in these is that the Spurs system and the roles each of the players have had impacts these numbers. Raw data often does not reflect the entire picture.

I know that you hate Parker, Johnny, and I don't want or need to take that away from you. It is fine with me. I only wanted to point out some explanation for some of the differences.

[ElNono]

(and therefore against the stars and best players of the opposing team) or in the second squad, in which until this last year at least, Manu was essentially the ONLY offense for the spurs and did not face the very best defensive player on the opposing team, which Parker often did.

Dunno where this canard originated, but if anyone actually takes the time to look up the numbers, they'll quickly find out it's not only not true when it comes to the playoffs, but it's also way off when you look at it career wise.

Overall, there shouldn't be a need to sink one player to prop up another, but it's done all the time around here, tbh (both ways, and I know you're a standup guy EVAY, so it's not directed necessarily at you)

[EVAY]

Dunno where this canard originated, but if anyone actually takes the time to look up the numbers, they'll quickly find out it's not only not true when it comes to the playoffs, but it's also way off when you look at it career wise.

Overall, there shouldn't be a need to sink one player to prop up another, but it's done all the time around here, tbh (both ways, and I know you're a standup guy EVAY, so it's not directed necessarily at you)

E-N, I know that Manu normally plays the end of halves with the first team, including in the regular season. I sometimes feel that it is impossible to just try to put some context around anything regarding either Manu or TP without someone taking offense.

And I don't think that you were directing a negative comment to me; I didn't take it that way at all. And, as I said, when I posted what I did it was intended more contextually than
as a direct comparison between the two players.

I am pretty much on record any number of times saying that I believe that Manu's talents are frankly superior to TP's and that I would rather watch Manu play than any other Spur, and that pretty much includes Duncan. But saying that someone has more basketball talent than the other guy does NOT, in my mind, begin and end a discussion regarding the relative value of both players.

The thing is that BOTH players are important to the team in their respective positions. I rarely comment at all any more in the gazillionth posting "this is why Parker is shit" or "this is why either TP or Manu is better than either Manu or TP." When I was typing that post I thought to myself "Why are you even talking to Johnny Ringo about this when you know he is irrational about it". I knew that there were contextual arguments to be made about Manu's playing etc.

Parker plays the way that Pop wants the Spurs system to play. Manu does as well. They are asked to different things and they each do them well. That is all we should be focusing on.

[ElNono]

I'm 100% in agreement, two different guys that bring their own championship pedigree to the team. Glad we have them, and we'll miss them when they're gone

[Diego20]

Some of the above stats are a function of different positions (pg vs. sg), and some are a function of whether they are playing in the first rotation (and therefore against the stars and best players of the opposing team) or in the second squad, in which until this last year at least, Manu was essentially the ONLY offense for the spurs and did not face the very best defensive player on the opposing team, which Parker often did. I think the more relevant stats are comparing tp with other pgs and Manu with other sgs in the playoffs.

I am a huge fan of Manu, so I don't want my comments to be used as a Parker vs. Manu argument. My only point in these is that the Spurs system and the roles each of the players have had impacts these numbers. Raw data often does not reflect the entire picture.

I know that you hate Parker, Johnny, and I don't want or need to take that away from you. It is fine with me. I only wanted to point out some explanation for some of the differences.

But Manu plays with our second unit most of the time, he doesn't play with the best spurs player. TP play with the starters. TP should have 99999999 assists (for example) because he's playing with TD, KL, green, etc.

And Manu always had better stats in terms of PER, ORTG, etc even when he was A STARTER.

[Johnny RIngo]

Some of the above stats are a function of different positions (pg vs. sg), and some are a function of whether they are playing in the first rotation (and therefore against the stars and best players of the opposing team) or in the second squad, in which until this last year at least, Manu was essentially the ONLY offense for the spurs and did not face the very best defensive player on the opposing team, which Parker often did. I think the more relevant stats are comparing tp with other pgs and Manu with other sgs in the playoffs.

Point guards typically do very well well in ORtg(they're the player running the offense most of the time so it makes sense). Parker's ORtg being so low in the post-season pretty much confirms he's not a very good playmaker. Just compare his career playoff ORtg to other great PGs.

Here's some legendary ones:

122 ORtg - Magic Johnson
116 ORtg - Stockton
110 ORtg - Isiah Thomas
107 ORtg - Payton

Here's some of Parker's contemporaries:

118 ORtg - Billups
116 ORtg - Nash
117 ORtg - Paul

Sad thing is Parker is pretty damn good in the regular season(109 ORtg). He just seem unable to translate that into the playoffs. Not that surprising the Spurs have suffered some legendary choke jobs in the post-season when they have a point guard that's unable to find opportunities for his teammates.

[Diego20]

Point guards typically do very well well in ORtg(they're the player running the offense most of the time so it makes sense). Parker's ORtg being so low in the post-season pretty much confirms he's not a very good playmaker. Just compare his career playoff ORtg to other great PGs.

Here's some legendary ones:

122 ORtg - Magic Johnson
116 ORtg - Stockton
110 ORtg - Isiah Thomas
107 ORtg - Payton

Here's some of Parker's contemporaries:

118 ORtg - Billups
116 ORtg - Nash
117 ORtg - Paul

Sad thing is Parker is pretty damn good in the regular season(109 ORtg). He just seem unable to translate that into the playoffs. Not that surprising the Spurs have suffered some legendary choke jobs in the post-season when they have a point guard that's unable to find opportunities for his teammates.


:cry but but TP has one FINALS MVP he's our best player :cry


that's what they are going to say..

[TheGreatYacht]

Not that surprising the Spurs have suffered some legendary choke jobs in the post-season when they have a point guard that's unable to find opportunities for his teammates.
Parker isn't the only one to blame for the choke jobs. Manu's been responsible for more choke jobs in the playoffs than any player on the team. TP isn't perfect, but he's also been clutch as fuck ever since he became the guy. Has bailed out some turnover/stupid shot prone SG coming off the bench...

-2013 Warriors Game 1: led The Comeback. Scoring and playmaking for Green, Leonard, and Diaw
-2013 Finals Game 1: The shot
-2013 Finals Game 6: Put spurs up five with 28sec left
-2014 Game 7 vs Dallas

[jag]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...

:lol

[EVAY]

Point guards typically do very well well in ORtg(they're the player running the offense most of the time so it makes sense). Parker's ORtg being so low in the post-season pretty much confirms he's not a very good playmaker. Just compare his career playoff ORtg to other great PGs.

Here's some legendary ones:

122 ORtg - Magic Johnson
116 ORtg - Stockton
110 ORtg - Isiah Thomas
107 ORtg - Payton

Here's some of Parker's contemporaries:

118 ORtg - Billups
116 ORtg - Nash
117 ORtg - Paul

Sad thing is Parker is pretty damn good in the regular season(109 ORtg). He just seem unable to translate that into the playoffs. Not that surprising the Spurs have suffered some legendary choke jobs in the post-season when they have a point guard that's unable to find opportunities for his teammates.

I don't challenge your Ortg stats. But some additional ones might be relevant:

Parker is fifth among all point guards in NBA history in post season assists.

The four point guards in NBA history with more post season assists than Parker are:

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Nash

Added to being 5th in post season assists, he is also the leading scorer among ALL pgs in the NBA in post season history.

Not bad company for a 'post season choker'.

[Diego20]

I don't challenge your Ortg stats. But some additional ones might be relevant:

Parker is fifth among all point guards in NBA history in post season assists.

The four point guards in NBA history with more post season assists than Parker are:

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Nash

Added to being 5th in post season assists, he is also the leading scorer among ALL pgs in the NBA in post season history.

Not bad company for a 'post season choker'.


That's because he played too many games. You can say the same with Manu, he's probably top 5 SG in some stats too, for example 3PFG and others..

[Cry Havoc]

That's because he played too many games. You can say the same with Manu, he's probably top 5 SG in some stats too, for example 3PFG and others..

Except your criticism was that Parker doesn't get 99999999 assists. When he's 5th all-time in assists in the playoffs. You don't get to that level by being a scrub player. Especially on a team like the Spurs that have historically ran setups like 4 down and utilize so much off-ball movement for players.

And forgive me for laughing at you. Parker is a score-first point guard. Not a primary distributor. His job is to penetrate and begin to break down the defense. If hockey assists were a thing in the NBA, Parker would have 3x as many assists as he does now. But NO ONE in the Spurs history racks up assists very quickly because every guy is willing to make the extra pass than force a bad shot. Duncan is a top 5 passing big of all-time, honestly, and maybe the best outlet passer the game has ever seen who's over 6'8", and yet he only gets 3-4 dimes per. It's. The. System. Get it through your skull.

This is the 8 millionth time this has been discussed on the site and it always ends the same way. You recycle the same arguments about why Parker is terrible in the face of all statistics that say otherwise. So go ahead and bang that drum, it just clues people into how little basketball you are actually able to watch objectively without an agenda.

[Diego20]

Except your criticism was that Parker doesn't get 99999999 assists. When he's 5th all-time in assists in the playoffs. You don't get to that level by being a scrub player. Especially on a team like the Spurs that have historically ran setups like 4 down and utilize so much off-ball movement for players.

And forgive me for laughing at you. Parker is a score-first point guard. Not a primary distributor. His job is to penetrate and begin to break down the defense. If hockey assists were a thing in the NBA, Parker would have 3x as many assists as he does now. But NO ONE in the Spurs history racks up assists very quickly because every guy is willing to make the extra pass than force a bad shot. Duncan is a top 5 passing big of all-time, honestly, and maybe the best outlet passer the game has ever seen who's over 6'8", and yet he only gets 3-4 dimes per. It's. The. System. Get it through your skull.

This is the 8 millionth time this has been discussed on the site and it always ends the same way. You recycle the same arguments about why Parker is terrible in the face of all statistics that say otherwise. So go ahead and bang that drum, it just clues people into how little basketball you are actually able to watch objectively without an agenda.

Except that TP played like 30 more games than Nash however he has less assists. We all know TP is a score-first point guard HOWEVER THERE ARE OTHERS SCORE-FIRST POINTS GUARD that averages the same points as TP but averages MORE ASSISTS THAN TP, you understand that bro?

[lefty]

Except that TP played like 30 more games than Nash however he has less assists. We all know TP is a score-first point guard HOWEVER THERE ARE OTHERS SCORE-FIRST POINTS GUARD that averages the same points as TP but averages MORE ASSISTS THAN TP, you understand that bro?
They can't handle the truth

:bobo

[Dex]

So wait, is red font now used for truth? Like the blue font is for sarcasm?

Green font for tbh?

This place is gonna turn into fucking bag of Skittles before all is said and done.

[lefty]

So wait, is red font now used for truth? Like the blue font is for sarcasm?

Green font for tbh?

This place is gonna turn into fucking bag of Skittles before all is said and done.
:lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Except that TP played like 30 more games than Nash however he has less assists. We all know TP is a score-first point guard HOWEVER THERE ARE OTHERS SCORE-FIRST POINTS GUARD that averages the same points as TP but averages MORE ASSISTS THAN TP, you understand that bro?

So Tony isn't the best point guard in history. Is that what you're trying to prove? If so, man, give yourself a huge pat on the back.

I'm also betting that no point guard has ever been in such a self-less system like the Spurs. NO ONE passes the ball like this team does. The 2014 Spurs are the best passing team in the history of the NBA and it isn't close. 1 pass on another team is 4 passes in our offense. Focusing on raw stats is absurd when we have a team. Parker fits into the system beautifully because he forces the defense to adjust to his constant threat of penetrations. Green, Leonard, Marco, and Manu don't get "magically" wide open from beyond the arc 47 times per game. It's because defenses have to constantly shift to deal with our disruptive offense, and Parker is probably the best disruptor we have (save for Manu when he's shooting lights out). Hopefully Kawhi can step into more of a role in that offense now that he's gaining confidence and getting better at handling the ball. For the past 6-8 years though, Parker has been the start of a lot of our offense. Pop is just enough of a genius that our starting point is far, far away from our end point in most sets.

[Johnny RIngo]

I don't challenge your Ortg stats. But some additional ones might be relevant:

Parker is fifth among all point guards in NBA history in post season assists.

The four point guards in NBA history with more post season assists than Parker are:

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Nash

Let's organize that same group of players by playoff assists per game:

12.3 - Magic
10.1 - Stockon
8.8 - Nash
8.0 - Kidd
5.2 - Parker

Parker's not in the same tier as those guy as a playmaker.


Added to being 5th in post season assists, he is also the leading scorer among ALL pgs in the NBA in post season history.

Not bad company for a 'post season choker'.

Parker's a good scorer in the regular season but he's terribly inefficient in the playoffs. A career .518 TS% in the post-season. Compare that to other great PGs past and present:

.595 - Magic
.568 - Stockton
.583 - Nash
.578 - Billups
.575 - Paul

2004, 2006, 2013 were all winnable years for the Spurs but Parker's inefficient series against the '04 Lakers, '06 Mavs, and '13 Heat probably cost the Spurs a few titles.

[spurraider21]

Parker isn't the only one to blame for the choke jobs. Manu's been responsible for more choke jobs in the playoffs than any player on the team. TP isn't perfect, but he's also been clutch as fuck ever since he became the guy. Has bailed out some turnover/stupid shot prone SG coming off the bench...

-2013 Warriors Game 1: led The Comeback. Scoring and playmaking for Green, Leonard, and Diaw
-2013 Finals Game 1: The shot
-2013 Finals Game 6: Put spurs up five with 28sec left
-2014 Game 7 vs Dallas
when did parker put the spurs up 5 in game 6? he put them up 2. chill...

keep in mind in games 6 and 7 he combined for 9-35 from the field :lol

[lefty]

when did parker put the spurs up 5 in game 6? he put them up 2. chill...

keep in mind in games 6 and 7 he combined for 9-35 from the field :lol

That's Kobe-esque

[spurs10]

Pretty funny being blamed because he has won more playoff games. All those people with wonderful stats and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. It's not like fencing, it's a team sport about winning. TP is looking pretty damn good.

[mkurts]

when did parker put the spurs up 5 in game 6? he put them up 2. chill...

keep in mind in games 6 and 7 he combined for 9-35 from the field :lol

He needed more than 35 FGA to get going hot. That was on Pop. Should have just let him keep the ball and go to work

[EVAY]

when did parker put the spurs up 5 in game 6? he put them up 2. chill...

keep in mind in games 6 and 7 he combined for 9-35 from the field :lol

He scored a three pointer and then a two pointer (the last Spurs points) in game six, at which point we were up 5 with 28 seconds left, before Miami scored three. Left us up two.

Keep in mind that he had a grade two hamstring strain in games 5, 6 and 7.

[EVAY]

Let's organize that same group of players by playoff assists per game:

12.3 - Magic
10.1 - Stockon
8.8 - Nash
8.0 - Kidd
5.2 - Parker

Parker's not in the same tier as those guy as a playmaker.



Parker's a good scorer in the regular season but he's terribly inefficient in the playoffs. A career .518 TS% in the post-season. Compare that to other great PGs past and present:

.595 - Magic
.568 - Stockton
.583 - Nash
.578 - Billups
.575 - Paul

2004, 2006, 2013 were all winnable years for the Spurs but Parker's inefficient series against the '04 Lakers, '06 Mavs, and '13 Heat probably cost the Spurs a few titles.

Johnny, please believe me, I don't try to suggest that Parker is anywhere nearly as talented as the guards you list as having better career TS%. I have said repeatedly that Parker's talent level is not as good as several of his teammates with respect to court vision, passing ability and bball i.q. In terms of ball handling, passing and court vision, he is at least third behind Manu and Boris. It is precisely because I believe he is not as talented as some of his OWN teammates (not to mention the all-time stars you listed) that he should be given credit for what he has done for this team. He has had to put in the work to become what Pop wanted him to become. And he has done that work. He hears it from Pop when he doesn't attempt enough baskets, and he hears it from Pop when he attempts too many.

Given all of that, what Parker has accomplished is all the more impressive, imo. If you had your choice of a point guard who was ALMOST as good year in and year out as Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Steve Nash, etc., on a team that also sports (and pays) Tim Duncan and Many Ginobili, wouldn't YOU be thrilled to do that?

That is what I don't understand. Why people blame a talented but by far less talented guy who plays his heart out virtually every night for CHOKING, when his stats are admittedly not better than, but comparable to some of the greatest players of all time at his position?!! And, regarding Paul - Tony has beat Paul straight up in virtually every game they play. And Paul has not yet gotten his team to the championships. Parker has run Pop's offense better than any other guard we have ever had, and when he is gone we will miss him immensely. Could Chis Paul have run Pop's offense better than Tony? I don't know. But WOULD Paul have been willing to take less money in a smaller market and play behind the best PF in history, always being at least second fiddle if not third? I'm not sure about that.

[spurraider21]

He scored a three pointer and then a two pointer (the last Spurs points) in game six, at which point we were up 5 with 28 seconds left, before Miami scored three. Left us up two.

Keep in mind that he had a grade two hamstring strain in games 5, 6 and 7.
3 pointer tied the game and two pointer put us up two

[itzsoweezee]

I don't challenge your Ortg stats. But some additional ones might be relevant:

Parker is fifth among all point guards in NBA history in post season assists.

The four point guards in NBA history with more post season assists than Parker are:

Magic Johnson
John Stockton
Jason Kidd
Nash

Added to being 5th in post season assists, he is also the leading scorer among ALL pgs in the NBA in post season history.

Not bad company for a 'post season choker'.


The stats you are using to support your assertion are simply less useful than the ones cited by Johnny Ringo. No one looks at absolute numbers anymore because they distort relative impact.

[EVAY]

The stats you are using to support your assertion are simply less useful than the ones cited by Johnny Ringo. No one looks at absolute numbers anymore because they distort relative impact.

My only assertion, if you read it closely, was that some additional stats might be relevant. I didn't claim that they were more or less 'useful'. Interesting that the same folks who don't want to note relevant stats for some players don't mind noting that Tim has as many rings as Kobe, or that he has more rebounds in the PO than anyone else in NBA history, or any other number of 'less useful' stats. Or that Kawhi was the second-youngest Finals MVP in NBA playoff history.

This is, admittedly, all in the "wasted words" category, so I am going to stop wasting mine in this thread, promise.

[itzsoweezee]

My only assertion, if you read it closely, was that some additional stats might be relevant. I didn't claim that they were more or less 'useful'. Interesting that the same folks who don't want to note relevant stats for some players don't mind noting that Tim has as many rings as Kobe, or that he has more rebounds in the PO than anyone else in NBA history, or any other number of 'less useful' stats. Or that Kawhi was the second-youngest Finals MVP in NBA playoff history.

This is, admittedly, all in the "wasted words" category, so I am going to stop wasting mine in this thread, promise.


Honestly, I don't care. I'm a fan of all of the Spurs' players - an unusual position on this forum.

[Mikeanaro]

Just face it.

[mkurts]

Parker the legend returns to be the head of the snake.

Bow down you Kawhi and Manu

[will_spurs]

The hate on Tony on this board is unbelievable, tbh... as a person that has always supported Parker, I find this kind of chatter offensive and unnecessary. He's one of our guys, not the enemy...

QFT.

[mathbzh]

The stats you are using to support your assertion are simply less useful than the ones cited by Johnny Ringo. No one looks at absolute numbers anymore because they distort relative impact.

And you think looking only at TS% is better? That Dwight Howard is more efficient than DRob? David Lee more than Duncan?