Why do working-class Americans vote Republican?

[Uriel]

Don't you people understand what the Republican Party is all about? These people aren't interested in ordinary Americans. They want to cut tax rates for the very richest people, to the point where they would pay even less than blue-collar workers. They want to cut social services—health, education, welfare. They want to rig the game in their favor, so they can keep all the wealth for themselves, while leaving everyone else to fend for scraps.

These people don't care about you; they only care about themselves. So why in the world would you want to vote Republican?

[Jacob1983]

3rd party in 2012 for me

[TheSanityAnnex]

Don't you people understand what the Republican Party is all about? These people aren't interested in ordinary Americans. They want to cut tax rates for the very richest people, to the point where they would pay even less than blue-collar workers. They want to cut social services—health, education, welfare. They want to rig the game in their favor, so they can keep all the wealth for themselves, while leaving everyone else to fend for scraps.

These people don't care about you; they only care about themselves. It's the Democrats, NOT the Republicans, that want to help ordinary Americans. So why in the world would you want to vote Republican?
Don't you understand neither party gives a fuck about the people?

[Clipper Nation]

Don't you people understand what the Republican Party is all about? These people aren't interested in ordinary Americans. They want to cut tax rates for the very richest people, to the point where they would pay even less than blue-collar workers. They want to cut social services—health, education, welfare. They want to rig the game in their favor, so they can keep all the wealth for themselves, while leaving everyone else to fend for scraps.

These people don't care about you; they only care about themselves. It's the Democrats, NOT the Republicans, that want to help ordinary Americans. So why in the world would you want to vote Republican?
:lmao at actually thinking there is any significant difference between the two major parties besides rhetoric and slogans....

[Uriel]

Oh, please. At least the Democratic Party at least pretends to care by supporting universal health care, raising the minimum wage, expanding social services, and the like. Republicans, on the other hand, are shameless in their desire to cut all these programs, while protecting the interests of the wealthy.

How can you even support these people?

[spurraider21]

Don't you people understand what the Republican Party is all about? These people aren't interested in ordinary Americans. They want to cut tax rates for the very richest people, to the point where they would pay even less than blue-collar workers. They want to cut social services—health, education, welfare. They want to rig the game in their favor, so they can keep all the wealth for themselves, while leaving everyone else to fend for scraps.

These people don't care about you; they only care about themselves. So why in the world would you want to vote Republican?
i agree that the republican party doesn't care about the average joe shmoe, but i dont get is why you insinuate that the democratic party does. its the same with minority groups. black voters are overwhelmingly democrat (even before Obama), but its not like the black man necessarily does any better under a democratic presidency. heck, its not like the black man has seen any significant gains from the obama administration

i would just assume joe shmoe votes republican because they tend to slash taxes, for better or worse

[Wild Cobra]

-double post-

[Wild Cobra]

Don't you understand neither party gives a fuck about the people?
This is the truth of the matter.

At least republicans aren't trying to redistribute my money, raise usage fees, etc.

Republicans don't care about me any more than democrats, but at least they don't lie, pretending to.

[Clipper Nation]

Oh, please. At least the Democratic Party at least pretends to care

"Pretending to care" =/= caring... both parties are all about more government, more wars, more of the nanny state, more fiat money, and less freedoms for us... until that changes, it's all just the same bullshit in a red or blue package....

[Winehole23]

trope goes back ten years at least: http://www.tcfrank.com/books/whats-the-matter-with-kansas/

[Blizzardwizard]

Probably because they're opposed to Obama rather than being in favour of Republicans. Can't see why working-class would vote in guys who only cater to the wealthy though. Conservatives and their brainwashing powers I guess.

[Uriel]

i agree that the republican party doesn't care about the average joe shmoe, but i dont get is why you insinuate that the democratic party does. its the same with minority groups. black voters are overwhelmingly democrat (even before Obama), but its not like the black man necessarily does any better under a democratic presidency. heck, its not like the black man has seen any significant gains from the obama administration

i would just assume joe shmoe votes republican because they tend to slash taxes, for better or worse

Oh, please. At least the Democratic Party at least pretends to care by supporting universal health care, raising the minimum wage, expanding social services, and the like. Republicans, on the other hand, are shameless in their desire to cut all these programs, while protecting the interests of the wealthy.

How can you even support these people?





At least republicans aren't trying to redistribute my money, raise usage fees, etc.

Republicans don't care about me any more than democrats, but at least they don't lie, pretending to.
So you're saying that you'd rather support the guy who openly wants to screw you than the guy who at least pretends to want to help you? What a brilliant defense.


Don't you understand neither party gives a fuck about the people?

:lmao at actually thinking there is any significant difference between the two major parties besides rhetoric and slogans....
How can you people be so cynical about politics? Regardless of whether politicians are sincere in their desire to help ordinary people or not, the fact remains that they write laws and implement policies that are at least intended to do so. Therefore, what political party you support happens to matter a lot.

[spurraider21]

well, the super poor do vote democrat. the ones that living off minimum wage, welfare, etc. this poll is pretty dated, about 8 years or so, but i dont think the numbers have shifted so drastically that the it would be completely inapplicable


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-etGndwrXG_E/T0VsyVn8yDI/AAAAAAAAAk0/jSAvBfaB9QA/s1600/maxwell.png



people who make so little money that they aren't paying federal income tax will vote democrat, since they get more foodstamps and they dont care about tax rates, since they're not in the taxpayer pool. low income earners do vote republican for more favorable tax rates. people who are so poor that they're struggling, but not so poor where they receive foodstamps. the government programs dont benefit them, and they feel the every fractional percent of income tax increases

[spurraider21]

How can you people be so cynical about politics? Regardless of whether politicians are sincere in their desire to help ordinary people or not, the fact remains that they write laws and implement policies that are at least intended to do so. Therefore, what political party you support happens to matter a lot.
you go off on other people's cynicism but your OP sounds a lot like you just gobble up the rhetoric that is thrown at you.

[Uriel]

well, the super poor do vote democrat. the ones that living off minimum wage, welfare, etc. this poll is pretty dated, about 8 years or so, but i dont think the numbers have shifted so drastically that the it would be completely inapplicable


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-etGndwrXG_E/T0VsyVn8yDI/AAAAAAAAAk0/jSAvBfaB9QA/s1600/maxwell.png



people who make so little money that they aren't paying federal income tax will vote democrat, since they get more foodstamps and they dont care about tax rates, since they're not in the taxpayer pool. low income earners do vote republican for more favorable tax rates. people who are so poor that they're struggling, but not so poor where they receive foodstamps. the government programs dont benefit them, and they feel the every fractional percent of income tax increases
Yes, I'm aware of those statistics. But those numbers account for the American population at large. But if you break it down by race, you'll find that working-class whites still lean Republican. To which I ask the question: why?


you go off on other people's cynicism but your OP sounds a lot like you just gobble up the rhetoric that is thrown at you.
I'm not cynical about either party--I believe that both are genuine in their desire to enact the policies they want. Which explains exactly why I'm so flabbergasted by Republican supporters. Democratic policies help the poor and middle class. Republican policies help the rich.

So I genuinely want to know why so many ordinary Americans are voting against their economic self-interest.

[spurraider21]

[FONT=Verdana]Yes, I'm aware of those statistics. But those numbers account for the American population at large. But if you break it down by race, you'll find that working-class whites still lean Republican. To which I ask the question: why?


I'm not cynical about either party--I believe that both are genuine in their desire to enact the policies they want. Which explains exactly why I'm so flabbergasted by Republican supporters. Democratic policies help the poor and middle class. Republican policies help the rich.

So I genuinely want to know why so many ordinary Americans are voting against their economic self-interest.
the non-working class benefits from democrat programs, while they dont suffer from tax increases since they dont pay tax... or at least its a very minuscule amount given their bracket

the working class is not entitled to these same benefits (at least not to the same extent) that come from such programs, and instead do suffer from the tax increases that come along with them


of course we are oversimplifying it and its also absurd to suggest people only vote based on economics. "how can poor people vote republican??!?" doesn't take into account the non-economic aspects of politics

[Uriel]

the non-working class benefits from democrat programs, while they dont suffer from tax increases since they dont pay tax... or at least its a very minuscule amount given their bracket

the working class is not entitled to these same benefits (at least not to the same extent) that come from such programs, and instead do suffer from the tax increases that come along with them


of course we are oversimplifying it and its also absurd to suggest people only vote based on economics. "how can poor people vote republican??!?" doesn't take into account the non-economic aspects of politics
Maybe so, but consider this: Democrats also support policies like universal health care, raising the minimum wage, cutting taxes for the middle class (while raising taxes on the rich), and the like. These are all policies that help working-class Americans. The fact remains that the Democratic platform does far more to help ordinary people than the Republican platform does. So why would anyone other than the ultra-rich want to support Republicans?

That's precisely my issue--people have this delusion that non-economic issues also matter. Who cares if you oppose gay marriage / abortion? That doesn't mean you should vote for your local Republican politician just because he or she does so too. It's not like they have the power to re-write federal legislation anyway. What they do have power over is the implementation of social programs in your local municipality. So why would you want to support Republicans, whose only interest is protecting the rich at your expense?

[JoeTait75]

50 or 60 years ago the Democratic Party was the party of the working class. Those days are long gone. These days progressives despise working-class people (especially working-class whites) considering them a "racist," "sexist" and "homophobic" reactionary impediment to the social agenda they push constantly. They look at working-class whites the same way the Bolsheviks looked at the kulaks.

It's kind of tough to get people to vote for you when you plainly hate their guts. "We despise the color of your skin, where you live and your values. By the way, could you please come out and vote for us in November?" Tough sell.

It's also more than a little bit cynical to claim that "social issues don't matter" when progressives are the ones obsessively pushing social issues. If social issues don't matter why do progressives act like the world is going to end whenever some state legislature passes a defense-of-marriage law?

You think Democrats are there for the working class? Youngstown, Cleveland and Detroit were and are Democratic strongholds. Where were they when the mills closed and the jobs left town? They didn't lift a finger. They didn't give a fuck.

The Republicans aren't any better. Both parties are for the plutocrats: globalists, Big Hollywood, Big Media, Big Business and Big Banks. Dems hate the working class for their values; Republicans hate the working class because they have the nerve to ask for a fair wage. Both parties are gung-ho in favor of mass immigration, which is terrible for the working class demographically, economically.

[Clipper Nation]

How can you people be so cynical about politics?
Because politicians have given us nothing but reasons to be cynical for decades now?

[boutons_deux]

well, the super poor do vote democrat. the ones that living off minimum wage, welfare, etc. this poll is pretty dated, about 8 years or so, but i dont think the numbers have shifted so drastically that the it would be completely inapplicable


people who make so little money that they aren't paying federal income tax will vote democrat, since they get more foodstamps and they dont care about tax rates, since they're not in the taxpayer pool. low income earners do vote republican for more favorable tax rates. people who are so poor that they're struggling, but not so poor where they receive foodstamps. the government programs dont benefit them, and they feel the every fractional percent of income tax increases

simplistic, and ridiculously DISHONEST

[CosmicCowboy]

You answered your question in your title.

Emphasis on working

[Wild Cobra]

Probably because they're opposed to Obama rather than being in favour of Republicans. Can't see why working-class would vote in guys who only cater to the wealthy though. Conservatives and their brainwashing powers I guess.
Maybe we just don't have childish jealousy of people who are better off than ourselves.

[Wild Cobra]

So you're saying that you'd rather support the guy who openly wants to screw you than the guy who at least pretends to want to help you? What a brilliant defense.


How do the republicans want to screw me?

Now if Elisabeth Hasselbeck wanted to screw me, I wouldn't resist!

[Wild Cobra]

Yes, I'm aware of those statistics. But those numbers account for the American population at large. But if you break it down by race, you'll find that working-class whites still lean Republican. To which I ask the question: why?

Maybe because we are too proud to be part of a group of people who claim to be victims.

I see most people who vote democrat as being selfish shitheads.

[Infinite_limit]

Don't you people understand what the Republican Party is all about? These people aren't interested in ordinary Americans. They want to cut tax rates for the very richest people, to the point where they would pay even less than blue-collar workers. They want to cut social services—health, education, welfare. They want to rig the game in their favor, so they can keep all the wealth for themselves, while leaving everyone else to fend for scraps.

These people don't care about you; they only care about themselves. So why in the world would you want to vote Republican?
I've always voted Democrat, including Obama in 2008

I agree the Republicans favor wealth. But I think they also reward people finishing college, having strong family structure and avoiding run ins with the law. Which I think is necessary incentive in a melting pot capitalistic system. As demographics change and more 3rd World immigrants stroll on in, I disagree with the USA backing Universal/Socialist services.

I also without a doubt believe Republicans care more about America and it's survival. Growing number of Democrats are immigrants or 1st generation Americans, so if shit hit the fan they would be on the next plane out. America should keep the equation simple: go to college, finish worthwhile degree and then cash in.

[Blizzardwizard]

Maybe we just don't have childish jealousy of people who are better off than ourselves.

Or that Conservatives don't give everybody a fair chance at wealth and just condemn certain people to the pits of society.

[Winehole23]

why do you still vote for Democrats, IL? still sore over the Civil War?

[angrydude]

If you're not cynical about politics you aren't paying enough attention.

[Infinite_limit]

Or that Conservatives don't give everybody a fair chance at wealth and just condemn certain people to the pits of society.
Fair chance?

1. Go to College
2. Take worthwhile Degree
3. Cash in

[Infinite_limit]

why do you still vote for Democrats, IL? still sore over the Civil War?
I've majorly changed my views in the past 5 years but Romney wasn't much of a choice. I fell for the white guilt and racial harmony rhetoric in 2008 plus McCain is a war monger.

I prefer Republican social & economic policies. Hate global politics

[Clipper Nation]

I've always voted Democrat, including Obama in 2008
:lol Liberal faggot

[Clipper Nation]

Or that Conservatives don't give everybody a fair chance at wealth and just condemn certain people to the pits of society.
:cry:cry:cry

[boutons_deux]

If you're not cynical about politics you aren't paying enough attention.

turning people, esp young PROGRESSIVE people, away from politics, is a Repug/VRWC strategy.

Fewer people vote, the more chances Repugs have in purple states to overcome their demographic disadvantage.

Obstruct EVERYTHING, shut down the govt, pass no useful laws, regs, defund/kill govt, make govt work worse for everyone, that's the VRWC/Repug strategy.

turn off Dems, turn off independents, turn off reasonable people

Repugs don't GAF that Congress approval is 11%. They rejoice!

Repugs know that their god/guns/gays/abortion/racist/xenophobe/redneck/rousable-rabble base is highly inflammable, so they continually throw dishonest gasoline on them.

[Blizzardwizard]

:cry:cry:cry

:lol

George Bush :lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

The two party system has lead to an unnecessary divide and our downfall as a society. The masses stupidity for siding with either amazes me, think for yourselves.

[Winehole23]

Emphasis on workinganyone not working obviously lacks brains and is a social parasite. what else could possibly explain Blue Team voters?

[boutons_deux]

The two party system has lead to an unnecessary divide and our downfall as a society. The masses stupidity for siding with either amazes me, think for yourselves.

There's nothing wrong with the 2 party system. It worked for 100+ years.

Up until the 80s when the VRWC got its Useful Idiot and his VRWC hitmen in the WH, polarization wasn't so extreme, then Gingrich got control in '94 and polarization became fatal.

When Repugs simply don't want to govern, actively try to make government fail, USA is fucked and in permanent decline.

[TheSanityAnnex]

There's nothing wrong with the 2 party system. It worked for 100+ years.

Up until the 80s when the VRWC got its Useful Idiot and his VRWC hitmen in the WH, polarization wasn't so extreme, then Gingrich got control in '94 and polarization became fatal.

When Repugs simply don't want to govern, actively try to make government fail, USA is fucked and in permanent decline.
Everything is wrong with the two party system. Both platforms are too structured and don't represent the wants of the common citizen as a whole.

[boutons_deux]

Everything is wrong with the two party system. Both platforms are too structured and don't represent the wants of the common citizen as a whole.

False equivalence.

Simple: look at all the Dem stuff that would have helped the 99%, helped America, and see ALL the Repug scorched-earth, constipated obstructions.

[m>s]

The republicans tax policies are all fucked up, but you're crazy if you think legalizing all the illegals and having an open borders policy isn't all out warfare against the working man..those immigrants come at a faster rate than we can create jobs.

an example of why the democrats are dangerous:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/gop-rep-at-least-ten-isis-fighters-have-been-caught-coming-across-the-mexican-border/

we have fucking ISIS crossing the border into this country. This is a way bigger problem than a small wealthy minority paying a little less tax.

[boutons_deux]

False equivalence.

Simple: look at all the Dem stuff that would have helped the 99%, helped America, and see ALL the Repug scorched-earth, constipated obstructions.

Here ya go: Repugs MISgovern by extortion, and no matter what the cost to the 99%

Republicans Threaten Another Shutdown Over Obamacare (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/10/08/3577518/republicans-threaten-another-shutdown-over-obamacare/)

A year after shutting down the government, a group of Senate Republicans are pressuring House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) to oppose (http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/republicans-obamacare-bailout-showdown/?SD) any funding bill in the lame duck session that includes appropriations for a small program contained in the Affordable Care Act, potentially triggering another showdown.

The group of 14 lawmakers, led by Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), have taken aim at the risk-corridor component of the health care exchanges, a temporary program designed to prevent premiums from skyrocketing during the early years of Obamacare implementation. Under this provision, the federal government will give insurers who under-estimated how much they’d have to pay out in claims a portion of the profits from insurers who overestimated their costs and set their premiums too high. The goal of the measure is to stabilize the health care market and keep premiums level.

In their letter to Boehner, however, the senators point to a government report finding that the administration “would need an additional appropriation in order to make payments in FY 2015 corresponding with the 2014 plan year” and argue that funding the initiative would “put taxpayers at risk of a large bailout if insurers systematically lose money on exchange plans.”

Supporters of the law claim that the provision is one of several consumer protections (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-19/a-guide-to-obamacares-backstop-for-anxious-insurance-companies) that crafted to stabilize the health care market during Obamacare’s first three years, when insurers will have little historical data upon which to base health premiums for new customers. They argue that

should the senators succeed in shutting the program down, insurance companies could potentially pass on premium increases to millions of Americans

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/10/08/3577518/republicans-threaten-another-shutdown-over-obamacare/

health insurers have been fucking America for 35 years, ACA won't stop them, nor cause them to keep fucking America.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol

George Bush :lol
Dubya's in his 4th term right now, Obummer is just his stage name :lol

[boutons_deux]

Dubya's in his 4th term right now, Obummer is just his stage name :lol

bullshit

dubya and dickhead left off in Jan 2009, but the shit they spread around the USA and planet continues, will last for decades.

And how would YOU shovel the Repug shit now in the Middle East?

[DarrinS]

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BfkjgeVCcAAPmb8.jpg_large.jpeg

[boutons_deux]

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/BfkjgeVCcAAPmb8.jpg_large.jpeg

what's the date on the first quote?

[Slutter McGee]

Maybe because they can do basic math.

Slutter McGee

[Infinite_limit]

:lol Liberal faggot
It is true. I was.

[Spurminator]

http://i.imgur.com/boLgCoU.jpg

[spurraider21]

turning people, esp young PROGRESSIVE people, away from politics, is a Repug/VRWC strategy.

Fewer people vote, the more chances Repugs have in purple states to overcome their demographic disadvantage.

Obstruct EVERYTHING, shut down the govt, pass no useful laws, regs, defund/kill govt, make govt work worse for everyone, that's the VRWC/Repug strategy.

turn off Dems, turn off independents, turn off reasonable people

Repugs don't GAF that Congress approval is 11%. They rejoice!

Repugs know that their god/guns/gays/abortion/racist/xenophobe/redneck/rousable-rabble base is highly inflammable, so they continually throw dishonest gasoline on them.
very true. liberals know that their "we really DO love you" rhetoric works on young kids. its why obama did remarkably well in the election on voters from age 18-25. basically got a bunch of kids who don't pay taxes to agree to raise taxes.

just for reference i dont support the GOP either. i haven't been a fan of any presidential candidate since i was old enough to understand politics. just that living in socal i get a lot of liberal shit pushed down my throat so i naturally lash out against liberals more than conservatives

[spurraider21]

The two party system has lead to an unnecessary divide and our downfall as a society. The masses stupidity for siding with either amazes me, think for yourselves.
this^10

not to mention how polar the two parties have become. if an elected official ever has ONE view that aligns with the other party, he gets crucified by his own guys. this is why everybody saw mccain and romney as retreads of GWB, and Obama as a retread of Kerry

[FuzzyLumpkins]

5 figure republicans always amuse me. Buying into the two party illusion is one thing but if you aren't making $100k and are voting GOP because of fiscal policy then all i can do is shake my head.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

this^10

not to mention how polar the two parties have become. if an elected official ever has ONE view that aligns with the other party, he gets crucified by his own guys. this is why everybody saw mccain and romney as retreads of GWB, and Obama as a retread of Kerry

The current polarization was business as usual. GOP obstructionism is just the same as it was under Wilson as it was under Madison as it was under Bush as it was under Obama. The only time it hasn't been like the current climate was when one party was greatly diminished for a time a la the Democrats during reconstruction and again when the GOP tanked following Hoover and the great depression.

[spurraider21]

The current polarization was business as usual. GOP obstructionism is just the same as it was under Wilson as it was under Madison as it was under Bush as it was under Obama. The only time it hasn't been like the current climate was when one party was greatly diminished for a time a la the Democrats during reconstruction and again when the GOP tanked following Hoover and the great depression.
wasn't nearly as bad in the 80's and 90's

[boutons_deux]

wasn't nearly as bad in the 80's and 90's

As I said, the "modern" GOP extremism started with Gingrch's revolution, 1994

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/12/7-things-to-know-about-polarization-in-america/

Repugs, esp tea baggers/Kock Bros, have primaried moderates, have purged moderates, so the entire party has moved dramatically to the right, pulled by tea baggers.

Who can say the Dems have the same purging of moderates?

Who down the govt? Repugs. who repeatedly threatens to shut down the govt? Repugs

The Repugs have filibustered way much more under Obama?

http://www.tcf.org/assets/images/blog_images/20121130-graph-why-we-need-filibuster-reform.png

[spurraider21]

obama tries to ram everything through without getting a single GOP vote... the "reach across the aisle" rhetoric falls on deaf ears.

his party blindly supports him. i still remember when Pelosi said something along the lines of "we have to pass it to see what's in it" when it came to the ACA

[HI-FI]

50 or 60 years ago the Democratic Party was the party of the working class. Those days are long gone. These days progressives despise working-class people (especially working-class whites) considering them a "racist," "sexist" and "homophobic" reactionary impediment to the social agenda they push constantly. They look at working-class whites the same way the Bolsheviks looked at the kulaks.

It's kind of tough to get people to vote for you when you plainly hate their guts. "We despise the color of your skin, where you live and your values. By the way, could you please come out and vote for us in November?" Tough sell.

It's also more than a little bit cynical to claim that "social issues don't matter" when progressives are the ones obsessively pushing social issues. If social issues don't matter why do progressives act like the world is going to end whenever some state legislature passes a defense-of-marriage law?

You think Democrats are there for the working class? Youngstown, Cleveland and Detroit were and are Democratic strongholds. Where were they when the mills closed and the jobs left town? They didn't lift a finger. They didn't give a fuck.

The Republicans aren't any better. Both parties are for the plutocrats: globalists, Big Hollywood, Big Media, Big Business and Big Banks. Dems hate the working class for their values; Republicans hate the working class because they have the nerve to ask for a fair wage. Both parties are gung-ho in favor of mass immigration, which is terrible for the working class demographically, economically.
spot on.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

wasn't nearly as bad in the 80's and 90's

Yeah but that was when the worm turned. The GOP didn't win a chamber of the house until 1994 following the great depression. That was what I was saying about one of the parties being diminished. The Dems were much the same from 1860-1900 due to the Civil War.

You cannot obstruct if you only have ~1/3 the seats in Congress. In the current seesaw climate its a different story.

2 party system when equitable has not been a very functional system throughout history. Single member district and the financial and institutional entrenchment is a big problem.

[boutons_deux]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8452/7983998912_570021c5b4.jpg

[spurraider21]

there are a lot of flaws, single member districts, winner take all primaries, etc. its basically set up for gridlock but i hardly recall a period of time having the amount of disfunction that we have now

the system of 2 senators from each state is ridiculous.

California has a population of 38 million, wyoming has a population of about 580,000... so a california senator techincally represents 19 million american citizens while a wyoming senator represents 290 thousand, and they carry the same weight.

[spurraider21]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8452/7983998912_570021c5b4.jpg
since 92 we have had about 14 years of Democratic Presidency and 8 years of republican presidency. the fact that they filibustered only 40% more actually shows restraint :lol

edit: saw that chart only goes till 2012. so you have 12 years of democratic presidency and 8 years of republican presidency. a natural prediction even with those numbers would estimate republicans having 50% more filibusters

[boutons_deux]

obama tries to ram everything through without getting a single GOP vote... the "reach across the aisle" rhetoric falls on deaf ears.

his party blindly supports him. i still remember when Pelosi said something along the lines of "we have to pass it to see what's in it" when it came to the ACA

Obama started out naively, even though he had been in the Senate, thinking he could achieve bi-partisan progress. He found out very quickly the Repugs blocked every single Dem project.

WTF? the President can't "ram" through anything.

The Senate has reconciliation, which the Repugs used in 2001 a couple months after taking office, to RAM THROUGH the biggest tax cuts in US history.

[spurraider21]

Obama started out naively, even though he had been in the Senate, thinking he could achieve bi-partisan progress. He found out very quickly the Repugs blocked every single Dem project.

WTF? the President can't "ram" through anything.

The Senate has reconciliation, which the Repugs used in 2001 a couple months after taking office, to RAM THROUGH the biggest tax cuts in US history.
the president himself can't but as i said, his party bends over at his will.

"we have to pass it to see what's in it"

:lol http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y0aAdLguZa0/UKhQ0GokG3I/AAAAAAAAG0I/HmjhFqcQGto/s320/horse-and-carrot.jpg

[Uriel]

The xenophobia over immigrants in this thread is appalling. Many of these so-called "third world" immigrants are wealthier, more successful, and better educated than the average American.

For instance, Asian-Americans, on average, have a higher annual household income, higher educational attainment, higher IQ, and greater occupational prestige than the average American—including whites. Just look at all the Asians in Ivy League universities. These people are literally wealthier, smarter, and more educated (read: better) than you (working-class whites). And yet, you have the gall to be disgusted by their presence?

You people should consider yourselves lucky America is still able to attract top-tier talent from all over the world.

[JoeTait75]

The xenophobia over immigrants in this thread is appalling. Many of these so-called "third world" immigrants are wealthier, more successful, and better educated than the average American.

For instance, Asian-Americans, on average, have a higher annual household income, higher educational attainment, higher IQ, and greater occupational prestige than the average American—including whites. Just look at all the Asians in Ivy League universities. These people are literally wealthier, smarter, and more educated (read: better) than you (working-class whites). And yet, you have the gall to be disgusted by their presence?

You people should consider yourselves lucky America is still able to attract top-tier talent from all over the world.

It isn't about the immigrants and why they want to come here, it's about why the elites want them here. Why does the U.S. Chambers of Commerce want millions of Mexican laborers coming here? Why does Jeffrey Zuckerberg want to import foreign programmers on H1B visas?

Cheap votes and cheap labor. That's why the elites want them here.

You talk about the working class... how does it benefit the working class to flood the labor market with millions of foreigners during a shit job market? It doesn't. In fact, it's a disaster for the working class. But as long as the elites can leverage immigrants for power and money that's all they care about.

[spurraider21]

Uriel what city u from, and are u american born?

scratch that: just saw your "you people" comment :lol... where u from?

[z0sa]

Both parties disgust me.

[m>s]

Another huge reason to never vote democrat: gun rights. I'm pretty much a 2 issue voter these days.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The xenophobia over immigrants in this thread is appalling. Many of these so-called "third world" immigrants are wealthier, more successful, and better educated than the average American.

For instance, Asian-Americans, on average, have a higher annual household income, higher educational attainment, higher IQ, and greater occupational prestige than the average American—including whites. Just look at all the Asians in Ivy League universities. These people are literally wealthier, smarter, and more educated (read: better) than you (working-class whites). And yet, you have the gall to be disgusted by their presence?

You people should consider yourselves lucky America is still able to attract top-tier talent from all over the world.
There's quite a difference between illegal immigrants and the ones you are mentioning. Quite a difference.

[m>s]

lol Uriel stop trying to piggyback the success of Asians if you're not Asian.

[Infinite_limit]

"You people should consider yourselves lucky America is still able to attract top-tier talent from all over the world."

Attraction would vanish if America was no longer a safe haven for wealthy.

[Uriel]

Uriel what city u from, and are u american born?

scratch that: just saw your "you people" comment :lol... where u from?

lol Uriel stop trying to piggyback the success of Asians if you're not Asian.
I am Asian. But I'm currently residing in Australia.

[spurraider21]

I am Asian. But I'm currently residing in Australia.
same boat as tdmvpdpoy :lol

[tim_duncan_fan]

The working class white people who vote Republican do so chiefly and solely because they fear other races, the gay menace, and the end of belief in the Christian religious myth.

Most working-class conservative white people think Barry Hussein Obungo is about to enlist neggers\s to terrorist fist-jab their grandmothers to death with their huge negger penises while their gay homeboys sodomize their pure, white sons. They think Obungo is going to let all the Mexicans in to take all the jobs at the factories and coal mines for half the accepted pay rate. They think all the pure, white daughters of the United States are going to stop following Jesus, start smoking weed and get pregnant by Tyrone (all by the SAME Tyrone) if one more governmental seat anywhere is taken by a librul. They think Obungo is going to have a mural of Allah fucking Jesus up the ass painted on outside of the White House if he makes it to his last official day in office.

They think libruls want to take all their guns and forcibly abort their pure, white fetuses.

They think Mitt Romney, Jamie Dimon and Sam Walton's kids are going to come together and ensure that their kids grow up to be pure, white billionaires...but only if libruls like Obungo are kept out of the way, their secret terrorist plots to destroy America foiled.


Meanwhile, here in reality, Democrat and Republican politicians pretend to be fighting while they scheme together to rile up the Republican base to distract the Democrat base with stupid non-arguments like "Gay sex is eviiiiillll. Jesus said it!" With the distractions over no-brainer social issues in place, the politicians and economic elite can buy time and hoard resources with relatively no one noticing in preparation to ditch this country and its tribalistic, mostly uneducated populace just before the final economic collapse occurs.

Here in reality, there are no "terrorist fist-jabs". There are no death panels for grandma. Factory work has been and will continue to be shipped overseas where people not raised in a first-world country will work for $2 a day. I guess you just can't pass up labor that cheap, even if it means selling out your soul and your country.

Here in reality, gay dudes don't want to fuck the Rascal Scooter Society. I'm not even gay, but I know this because it goes without saying to everyone with a properly functioning brain.

Here in reality, people like weed because it's a drug that doesn't get people killed and they don't get why it's illegal when alcohol isn't.

Here in reality, young people are quitting religion because they've realized their parents were full of shit and that religion kinda makes you do stupid things like pretending to eat a guy's body (or worse, like blowing up a clinic) if you take it too far.

Here in reality...yeah...some white girls will fuck Tyrone. That's true, but it's no big deal.

Here in reality, no one is going to take away the guns...but those guns won't save the populace if the military is loyal to the government.

Here in reality, no one is going to force abortions....for at least another 65 years. At some point, the overpopulation vs resources thing will be addressed. It will be too little too late, but a policy of limiting families will come into play and it won't be Obungo doing it.

And lastly, here in reality, rich people don't give a fuck about you or your kids and the richest of the rich people will be getting the fuck out of the States long before their voting base has realized shit has really and truly hit the fan.



But anyway, there is the answer to this thread's question. Your average, working-class Republican voter is operated, ruled and controlled by unsubstantiated and unmitigated fear, which is ginned up as a distraction from a dying economy and the intention of those in power to escape certain death alone, when the time is right.

[spurraider21]

^its this sort of mentality that holds american politics back.

it has literally boiled down to 2 sides that basically say the same shit...

"the people on the other side are mental midgets and can't accept reality. they're dumb and have bought into brainwashing propaganda!"

the hilarious thing is both sides view it JUST like that

[Th'Pusher]

It isn't about the immigrants and why they want to come here, it's about why the elites want them here. Why does the U.S. Chambers of Commerce want millions of Mexican laborers coming here? Why does Jeffrey Zuckerberg want to import foreign programmers on H1B visas?

Cheap votes and cheap labor. That's why the elites want them here.

You talk about the working class... how does it benefit the working class to flood the labor market with millions of foreigners during a shit job market? It doesn't. In fact, it's a disaster for the working class. But as long as the elites can leverage immigrants for power and money that's all they care about.
Immigrants on visas can vote?

[JoeTait75]

Immigrants on visas can vote?

It isn't necessarily about the next election. There's a longer game being played here.

[TeyshaBlue]

I am Asian. But I'm currently residing in Australia.

Love Australia. :tu

[boutons_deux]

Economist Intelligence Unit likes AU

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertypicturegalleries/9477990/The-worlds-10-best-cities-to-live-in.html?frame=2311083

[DarrinS]

The working class white people who vote Republican do so chiefly and solely because they fear other races, the gay menace, and the end of belief in the Christian religious myth.

Most working-class conservative white people think Barry Hussein Obungo is about to enlist neggers\s to terrorist fist-jab their grandmothers to death with their huge negger penises while their gay homeboys sodomize their pure, white sons. They think Obungo is going to let all the Mexicans in to take all the jobs at the factories and coal mines for half the accepted pay rate. They think all the pure, white daughters of the United States are going to stop following Jesus, start smoking weed and get pregnant by Tyrone (all by the SAME Tyrone) if one more governmental seat anywhere is taken by a librul. They think Obungo is going to have a mural of Allah fucking Jesus up the ass painted on outside of the White House if he makes it to his last official day in office.

They think libruls want to take all their guns and forcibly abort their pure, white fetuses.

They think Mitt Romney, Jamie Dimon and Sam Walton's kids are going to come together and ensure that their kids grow up to be pure, white billionaires...but only if libruls like Obungo are kept out of the way, their secret terrorist plots to destroy America foiled.


Meanwhile, here in reality, Democrat and Republican politicians pretend to be fighting while they scheme together to rile up the Republican base to distract the Democrat base with stupid non-arguments like "Gay sex is eviiiiillll. Jesus said it!" With the distractions over no-brainer social issues in place, the politicians and economic elite can buy time and hoard resources with relatively no one noticing in preparation to ditch this country and its tribalistic, mostly uneducated populace just before the final economic collapse occurs.

Here in reality, there are no "terrorist fist-jabs". There are no death panels for grandma. Factory work has been and will continue to be shipped overseas where people not raised in a first-world country will work for $2 a day. I guess you just can't pass up labor that cheap, even if it means selling out your soul and your country.

Here in reality, gay dudes don't want to fuck the Rascal Scooter Society. I'm not even gay, but I know this because it goes without saying to everyone with a properly functioning brain.

Here in reality, people like weed because it's a drug that doesn't get people killed and they don't get why it's illegal when alcohol isn't.

Here in reality, young people are quitting religion because they've realized their parents were full of shit and that religion kinda makes you do stupid things like pretending to eat a guy's body (or worse, like blowing up a clinic) if you take it too far.

Here in reality...yeah...some white girls will fuck Tyrone. That's true, but it's no big deal.

Here in reality, no one is going to take away the guns...but those guns won't save the populace if the military is loyal to the government.

Here in reality, no one is going to force abortions....for at least another 65 years. At some point, the overpopulation vs resources thing will be addressed. It will be too little too late, but a policy of limiting families will come into play and it won't be Obungo doing it.

And lastly, here in reality, rich people don't give a fuck about you or your kids and the richest of the rich people will be getting the fuck out of the States long before their voting base has realized shit has really and truly hit the fan.



But anyway, there is the answer to this thread's question. Your average, working-class Republican voter is operated, ruled and controlled by unsubstantiated and unmitigated fear, which is ginned up as a distraction from a dying economy and the intention of those in power to escape certain death alone, when the time is right.



Never go full boutons-level retard.

[boutons_deux]

The entire Repug "appeal" is fear, anger, emotions: god/guns/gays/abortion/xenophobia/racism/Christian-hating/hate-govt.

The entire Repug govt policy range: cut taxes for wealthy/corps, screw up govt so people hate it, cut regulation so corporations and finance can loot people, the planet, environment, and of course bomb the shit out of anybody with oil.

[DarrinS]

The entire Repug "appeal" is fear, anger, emotions: god/guns/gays/abortion/xenophobia/racism/Christian-hating/hate-govt.

The entire Repug govt policy range: cut taxes for wealthy/corps, screw up govt so people hate it, cut regulation so corporations and finance can loot people, the planet, environment, and of course bomb the shit out of anybody with oil.


smh

[tim_duncan_fan]

lol Do people around here think the average working-class Republican voter is informed?

They don't know much of anything, least of all what's going on in their government. They literally get told that Democrats want to set up special councils to choose which Republican old white woman is going to be killed off and so they freak the fuck out.

It's retarded.

[DarrinS]

L
lol Do people around here think the average working-class Republican voter is informed?

They don't know much of anything, least of all what's going on in their government. They literally get told that Democrats want to set up special councils to choose which Republican old white woman is going to be killed off and so they freak the fuck out.

It's retarded.


You're smart

[Infinite_limit]

lol Do people around here think the average working-class Republican voter is informed?

They don't know much of anything, least of all what's going on in their government. They literally get told that Democrats want to set up special councils to choose which Republican old white woman is going to be killed off and so they freak the fuck out.

It's retarded.
And Democrats get told the rest of the Globe is open to homosexuality, multiculturalism and feminism. When in reality the Democrats represent one of the most left leaning parties on this Globe and their ideals are extremes.

[tim_duncan_fan]

L

You're smart

So...nothing of value to say?


And Democrats get told the rest of the Globe is open to homosexuality, multiculturalism and feminism. When in reality the Democrats represent one of the most left leaning parties on this Globe and their ideals are extremes.

I imagine most (read: all) Democrat voters know that the entire world isn't all about freedom. The funny thing about that though is that American Democrat voters tend to live in the U.S.

You're the same guy from the other day who was butthurt about athlete salaries...

I assumed this was where the bright people of Spurstalk hung out.

[101A]

The xenophobia over immigrants in this thread is appalling. Many of these so-called "third world" immigrants are wealthier, more successful, and better educated than the average American.

For instance, Asian-Americans, on average, have a higher annual household income, higher educational attainment, higher IQ, and greater occupational prestige than the average American—including whites. Just look at all the Asians in Ivy League universities. These people are literally wealthier, smarter, and more educated (read: better) than you (working-class whites). And yet, you have the gall to be disgusted by their presence?

You people should consider yourselves lucky America is still able to attract top-tier talent from all over the world.


...and these wealthy Asians generally vote Democratic, ostensibly against their own economic self interest. Odd. Can you explain that?

[angrydude]

There are lots of dumb Asians. The thing is, they're all still in Asia.

[Spurminator]

People don't always vote for self interest, and when they do, it's not always monetary self-interest. The desire to conserve tradition is also self-interest, to some extent, as is the desire to break tradition.

[TheSanityAnnex]

lol Do people around here think the average working-class Republican voter is informed?


I'd say they are more informed than average non-working Democratic voter.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

^its this sort of mentality that holds american politics back.

it has literally boiled down to 2 sides that basically say the same shit...

"the people on the other side are mental midgets and can't accept reality. they're dumb and have bought into brainwashing propaganda!"

the hilarious thing is both sides view it JUST like that

I agree that the christian right holds politics back by getting people to vote against their apparent self interests in the name of social values that are never addressed and have no basis in objective reality to begin with.

[Infinite_limit]

I imagine most (read: all) Democrat voters know that the entire world isn't all about freedom. The funny thing about that though is that American Democrat voters tend to live in the U.S.

You're the same guy from the other day who was butthurt about athlete salaries...

I assumed this was where the bright people of Spurstalk hung out.
I said favor homosexuality, multiculturalism and feminism. Said nothing about "freedom"

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'd say they are more informed than average non-working Democratic voter.
The non-working Democrat voter? Well, that's not a very high bar is it? And I wouldn't trust that your average working-class Republican voters are any better informed than those folks who vote Democrat and don't work.

They believe themselves to be more informed than the average non-working voter, that's for sure, but the majority of non-working and working-class Republican voters can't really be considered informed if they have been mislead and purposefully given "information" that is false.

I'd also argue that there aren't many non-working folks that vote on either side of the aisle. 43% of eligible Americans decline to vote. It stands to reason that a good percentage of these people are part of the group that doesn't go to work every day.

[Uriel]

...and these wealthy Asians generally vote Democratic, ostensibly against their own economic self interest. Odd. Can you explain that?
I can, because I'm one of them. We have a vision of an egalitarian society—one that will treat all people equally, regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor that only serves to divide people. As Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream that one day, people will be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." To that end, we're willing to vote for economic policies that will further that vision. And the Democrats, when they support the raising of the minimum wage, pay equality for men and women, and tax rates that ask people from various income levels to pay their fair share, all help to realize that vision. In other words, we're willing to vote against our economic self-interest in order to achieve a fairer and more just society for everyone.

Which is why I can't understand why working-class Republicans would want to vote for a society that disproportionately favors the wealthy at their expense.

[Infinite_limit]

I can, because I'm one of them. We have a vision of an egalitarian society—one that will treat all people equally, regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor that only serves to divide people. As Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream that one day, people will be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." To that end, we're willing to vote for economic policies that will further that vision. And the Democrats, when they support the raising of the minimum wage, pay equality for men and women, and tax rates that ask people from various income levels to pay their fair share, all help to realize that vision. In other words, we're willing to vote against our economic self-interest in order to achieve a fairer and more just society for everyone.

Which is why I can't understand why working-class Republicans would want to vote for a society that disproportionately favors the wealthy at their expense.
Utopian fantasy centered around unlimited resources. And oblivious to human natures tendency to divide and conquer.

Why not go all the way and tomorrow reel in 100 Million global refugees and house, feed and educate them? Judgmental to favor immigrants with the money & connections to fly over with a Visa isn't it?

MLK's dream is already happening. College degree, work experience and networking has no skin color bias

[Uriel]

Utopian fantasy centered around unlimited resources. And oblivious to human natures tendency to divide and conquer.

Why not go all the way and tomorrow reel in 100 Million global refugees and house, feed and educate them? Judgmental to favor immigrants with the money & connections to fly over with a Visa isn't it?

MLK's dream is already happening. College degree, work experience and networking has no skin color bias
You can choose to be cynical about this "utopian" vision for all I care. That's your choice. But at least the Democrats are working to realize it. The Republicans, on the other hand, in supporting right-winged economic policies, seem to be doing the opposite.

[Uriel]

How do the republicans want to screw me?
They want to deprive millions of Americans of health insurance by repealing Medicare. They don't want to help the poor by opposing the raising of the minimum wage. They want to make sure millionaires and billionaires pay a lower tax rate than your mom and pop.

If that isn't screwing you, I don't know what is.

[Infinite_limit]

You can choose to be cynical about this "utopian" vision for all I care. That's your choice. But at least the Democrats are working to realize it. The Republicans, on the other hand, in supporting right-winged economic policies, seem to be doing the opposite.
I use to believe in your paragraph. And to an extent I still do which is why I'm moving to Europe. But "socialism" doesn't work in a Multicultural nation. You need it to remain a cut throat place that makes or breaks people.

[m>s]

They want to deprive millions of Americans of health insurance by repealing Medicare. They don't want to help the working-class by opposing the raising of the minimum wage. They want to make sure millionaires and billionaires pay a lower tax rate than your mom and pop.

If that isn't screwing you, I don't know what is.

immigration hurts the working class a lot harder than a few rich guys paying less tax but you wouldn't care about that because you're a shillbot and you've been told what to think. I'm just hoping for both sides to be hung and shot in mass during a national revolution

[DarrinS]

They want to deprive millions of Americans of health insurance by repealing Medicare. They don't want to help the working-class by opposing the raising of the minimum wage. They want to make sure millionaires and billionaires pay a lower tax rate than your mom and pop.

If that isn't screwing you, I don't know what is.


You think working class is making min wage?

:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

You can choose to be cynical about this "utopian" vision for all I care. That's your choice. But at least the Democrats are working to realize it. The Republicans, on the other hand, in supporting right-winged economic policies, seem to be doing the opposite.

The DNC needs to hire better shills, this one is too obvious....

[Uriel]

You think working class is making min wage?

:lmao
Sorry, I meant the poor. I'm distracted since I'm browsing SpursTalk in the middle of a university lecture. :lol

[Uriel]

The DNC needs to hire better shills, this one is too obvious....
I challenge you to come up with a cogent argument that contradicts my reasoning.

[m>s]

university lecture. :lol
Posted from a leftist indoctrination camp

Smh you're not supposed to take the bait, just get in hide your power level get your piece of paper and get out.

[Clipper Nation]

I challenge you to come up with a cogent argument that contradicts my reasoning.

:lol at the idea that the Democrats give a fuck about "utopia," "egalitarianism," or anything other than maintaining power....

[Uriel]

:lol at the idea that the Democrats give a fuck about "utopia," "egalitarianism," or anything other than maintaining power....
See, I knew you couldn't do it. :lol All you could do was evade the argument entirely and lodge an ad hominem attack. Assuming you even know what that is.

[Infinite_limit]

See, I knew you couldn't do it. :lol All you could do was evade the argument entirely and lodge an ad hominem attack. Assuming you even know what that is.
You are a liberal arts Major huh?

[Uriel]

You are a liberal arts Major huh?
Political science. Pre-law.

[Infinite_limit]

Political science. Pre-law.
It's okay (even admirable) to be liberal now (I was at your age) but to be taken seriously in your field down the line you have to be more of a realist. If you are a minority, going conservative is a slam dunk to success.

[Uriel]

It's okay (even admirable) to be liberal now (I was at your age) but to be taken seriously in your field down the line you have to be more of a realist. If you are a minority, going conservative is a slam dunk to success.
If that's the case, then I'm saddened to hear you've lost your idealism. As one matures into adulthood, it's easy to become cynical about the political system and any prospects for change, as you and many other posters in this thread seem to have fallen into.

However, the liberal democracies that thrive in the Western world today are byproducts of student-led radical movements in the French, and later, American revolutions. The aristocracy in France and the U.S. viewed the instigators of these events as hopeless idealists, as you do with me. But these people were eventually able to bring about the change that built the foundation upon which the modern-day Western world is built. Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité—these principles may be viewed as delusions of grandeur by disenchanted adults. But if everyone thought that way, then change would never be possible.

By no means am I a student radical. But the point I'm making is that it was the liberal idealism of the people and their overarching desire for change that made the Western world's way of life even possible.

[Infinite_limit]

If that's the case, then I'm saddened to hear you've lost your idealism. As one matures into adulthood, it's easy to become cynical about the political system and any prospects for change, as you and many other posters in this thread seem to have fallen into.

However, the liberal democracies that thrive in the Western world today are byproducts of student-led radical movements in the French, and later, American revolutions. The aristocracy in France and the U.S. viewed the instigators of these events as hopeless idealists, as you do with me. But these people were eventually able to bring about the change that built the foundation upon which the modern-day Western world is built. Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité—these principles may be viewed as delusions of grandeur by disenchanted adults. But if everyone thought that way, then change would never be possible.

By no means am I a student radical. But the point I'm making is that it was the liberal idealism of the people and their overarching desire for change that made the Western world's way of life even possible.
I agree with your perspective but IMO present day USA is in the stage of decadence and pushing further Left is dangerous especially considering the forced influence USA has overseas. When I was young I backed legalizing marijuana, homosexuality, multiculturalism because I was not yet ready for a family. After experiencing or being around those aspects, I question whether the USA is moving too far left too quickly in relation to the rest of the globe. And ultimately it is a large reason why I no longer see myself raising a family in America.

I am okay with sacrificing my earnings for the benefit of my neighbor/co worker/stranger I meet on the subway...... if they share my values and ideals. And this is where culture and ultimately race factors in for me. Socialism works in Europe and Asia because these are homogeneous regions.

IMO if you plan on living and having family in the USA then Republican ideology is the safe bet. Democrats are pushing and you could argue forcing by in some cases non-elected judges, social changes that will be irreversible.

In terms of economy or foreign policy, I think the differences in the two parties is splitting hairs. I prefer Republicans argument of "Work and you shall receive" instead of "We are born with benefits"

[tim_duncan_fan]

Uriel, all the Dems want is to stay in power and help the rich get richer as well. They can talk about better economic policy, but they don't have to actualize anything because their partners, the Republicans, are playing the bad cop, obstructionist act really well.

In reality, both parties have things pretty much where both parties want them to be economically.

[spurraider21]

the democratic party currently has a better marketing campaign that attracts minorities despite not really doing much for minorities

[101A]

I can, because I'm one of them. We have a vision of an egalitarian society—one that will treat all people equally, regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor that only serves to divide people. As Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream that one day, people will be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." To that end, we're willing to vote for economic policies that will further that vision. And the Democrats, when they support the raising of the minimum wage, pay equality for men and women, and tax rates that ask people from various income levels to pay their fair share, all help to realize that vision. In other words, we're willing to vote against our economic self-interest in order to achieve a fairer and more just society for everyone.

Which is why I can't understand why working-class Republicans would want to vote for a society that disproportionately favors the wealthy at their expense.

What is a person's "Fair Share"? Tax rate does not affect income disparity, after all. Disparity is calculated before taxes are collected, after all.

[z0sa]

Why do working class americans vote for either party?

[Wild Cobra]

Why do working class americans vote for either party?

I think they are usually voting against the other party, therefore a third party vote is a spoiler. At least I do it that way. I very rarely vote for a candidate, but in opposition of the worse ideas a candidate wants to impose.

[Uriel]

What is a person's "Fair Share"? Tax rate does not affect income disparity, after all. Disparity is calculated before taxes are collected, after all.
"Fair share" is asking those who are more well-off to pay a bigger share of taxes. The money of multibillionaires is better spent on financing health and education for the general public, instead of private yachts and vacation homes in island resorts. Don't you agree?

[Uriel]

Why do working class americans vote for either party?
Aren't you an atheist? Democrats support secularism.

[z0sa]

Aren't you an atheist? Democrats support secularism.

the vast majority of democrats are christians.

[Clipper Nation]

I think they are usually voting against the other party, therefore a third party vote is a spoiler. At least I do it that way. I very rarely vote for a candidate, but in opposition of the worse ideas a candidate wants to impose.
Which only serves to keep the fraud two-party system entrenched....

[Clipper Nation]

"Fair share" is asking those who are more well-off to pay a bigger share of taxes. The money of multibillionaires is better spent on financing health and education for the general public, instead of private yachts and vacation homes in island resorts. Don't you agree?

I think it's better spent on what the multibillionaires want to spend it on because a.) they earned it, b.) you're not entitled to it, and c.) it's a free country....

You are a shill, and your posts are the text equivalents of those annoying robocalls that both parties send out during election cycles....

[Wild Cobra]

"Fair share" is asking those who are more well-off to pay a bigger share of taxes. The money of multibillionaires is better spent on financing health and education for the general public, instead of private yachts and vacation homes in island resorts. Don't you agree?
They pay their fair share just by making more. To keep squeezing the rich because you hate them is stupid. Besides, their buying things with their extra money pays for jobs. Their investments provide capitol for borrowing.

[Wild Cobra]

the vast majority of democrats are christians.

At least they claim. Very, very few practice the beliefs.

[Wild Cobra]

Which only serves to keep the fraud two-party system entrenched....
Yes, it does. We need a runoff system to stop this practice.

[Wild Cobra]

I think it's better spent on what the multibillionaires want to spend it on because a.) they earned it, b.) you're not entitled to it, and c.) it's a free country....

You are a shill, and your posts are the text equivalents of those annoying robocalls that both parties send out during election cycles....

This is so true.

I guess to the populous that wants handouts, they don't understand how working provides more wealth. Wealth is not a fixed size that when one person gets more, someone else gets less. Those getting less are because they are not motivated to try to get more.

[Nbadan]

They pay their fair share just by making more. To keep squeezing the rich because you hate them is stupid. Besides, their buying things with their extra money pays for jobs. Their investments provide capitol for borrowing.

Bills have to be paid...either the rich pay them or you do....plus corporations pay little in actual taxes, many none at all, yet they want the same rights as you and I...

[Nbadan]

At least they claim. Very, very few practice the beliefs.

"practice their beliefs"....spoken like a Republican....

[Nbadan]

I guess to the populous that wants handouts, they don't understand how working provides more wealth. Wealth is not a fixed size that when one person gets more, someone else gets less. Those getting less are because they are not motivated to try to get more.

I don't think people want 'handouts' that's a cop-out....they just want a bigger piece of the pie...and to spend more time with family...

[tim_duncan_fan]

the democratic party currently has a better marketing campaign that attracts minorities despite not really doing much for minorities

lol there's no marketing necessary when people know that the majority of folks that don't like minorities on principle are part of the Republican party.

American politics is much simpler and less sophisticated than some people might be willing to believe.

You can't win minority votes if your party only talks about blowing up Arabs and uses code language to diss blacks, Mexicans and women.

There's no "marketing" to it when one side trots out minstrel show retards like Herman Cain and Sarah Palin.



What we need is a new party that is locked to the left socially and strictly responsible fiscally...but that's not what the government wants and the American citizenry is too stupid to demand it.

So we'll continue to fight over stupid shit like whether to acknowledge the relationship of 2 fags on a federal level (an obvious "sure, why not?") and nothing will change for the vast majority of this country in terms of the economy and education.

[spurraider21]

lol there's no marketing necessary when people know that the majority of folks that don't like minorities on principle are part of the Republican party.
eh, there's the mindset that has been embedded that if you're a minority you'll be better off under democratic leadership even though there's nothing that really indicates that at all

[tim_duncan_fan]

eh, there's the mindset that has been embedded that if you're a minority you'll be better off under democratic leadership even though there's nothing that really indicates that at all

There is a slight difference:

People that vote Democrat are more likely to not despise you as a minority on principle.

When it comes to social issues of choice, liberty and equality regardless of race, sex and sex preferences, there really is only one party to pick.

That social difference is purposefully retained in order to maintain the mostly false dichotomy.


If we we ever stop fighting Republicans over whether to let fags marry or whether to arrest people for insignificant shit like weed, we might actually start paying attention to important shit like our falling behind as a nation in terms of education and the need to rectify our economy and thing things our economy is based on.

And relatively nobody in government wants the people paying attention to things that actually matter.

[spurraider21]

There is a slight difference:

People that vote Democrat are more likely to not despise you as a minority on principle.
all this mumbo jumbo aside is there any definitive evidence that minorities do better under democratic leadership than republican?

[HI-FI]

I think it's better spent on what the multibillionaires want to spend it on because a.) they earned it, b.) you're not entitled to it, and c.) it's a free country....

You are a shill, and your posts are the text equivalents of those annoying robocalls that both parties send out during election cycles....
if he's a shill it would make a lot more sense than what he's writing. when they pull the plug on this site, it will be nothing but trolls and shills left.

[DarrinS]

There is a slight difference:

People that vote Democrat are more likely to not despise you as a minority on principle.




lol

Liberal cities are bad for blacks
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-09/why-are-liberal-cities-bad-for-blacks


lol, white "progressives" economically segregating themselves from blacks


http://youtu.be/PKGfnPoRWUw

[tim_duncan_fan]

all this mumbo jumbo aside is there any definitive evidence that minorities do better under democratic leadership than republican?

No.

That's what I'm telling you.

The difference between the parties is in the social issues. It's not "mumbo jumbo". Blacks and hispanics don't feel welcome in the Republican party and as a result of that, neither do young, inclusive types of folks.

Get over the tribalism and pay attention. I'm not advocating for either party beyond saying the Republican voting block is decidedly more racist (in addition to gay-hating and women-fearing).


I'm saying that in terms of economics and trying to improving the status of the average Aemerican, neither party gives a shit as both are focused on firming their grip on power and adding onto the money piles of the rich people that funded the politicians of said parties into their leadership positions.


Goals of American Politicians both Dem and Republican:

1. Retain cushy leadership job that provides notoriety, power and an easy living situation

2. Pay back the people that funded you by pushing policies that benefit them

3. Maybe set up your offspring to be in roughly the same position of power and notoriety you are in or better



The end.

You're trying hard to score points for the red team and I'm not even defending the goal.

Both teams are shit and yet they are running up the score on the sheeple.


lol

Liberal cities are bad for blacks
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-09/why-are-liberal-cities-bad-for-blacks


lol, white "progressives" economically segregating themselves from blacks


http://youtu.be/PKGfnPoRWUw

Rich people move away from poor neighborhoods, period. I lock my car doors in sketchy hoods like any other person.

Brilliant analysis, Mr. Sheep!

[spurraider21]

No.
:tu that's why its marketing. they dont actually benefit minorities, they just have them believing they do

im not on either team, i'm just an observer. as i've said before, i despise both parties. but i live in SoCal which is superduper liberal so thats the stuff i get shoved down my throat on a daily basis

[tim_duncan_fan]

:tu that's why its marketing. they dont actually benefit minorities, they just have them believing they do

And you're under the impression that Republicans would actually serve minorities better.


Again, it's not marketing if one team says "we don't want you".

It's not as sophisticated as "marketing" lol.

[spurraider21]

And you're under the impression that Republicans would actually serve minorities better.


Again, it's not marketing if one team says "we don't want you".

It's not as sophisticated as "marketing" lol.
lol its not like republicans actually say "we don't like minorities"

if you dont like the "marketing" term thats fine, but you see what i mean by it.

[DarrinS]

Rich people move away from poor neighborhoods, period. I lock my car doors in sketchy hoods like any other person any other person.

Brilliant analysis, Mr. Sheep!


Hmmm, "sketchy hoods". I see.

[Winehole23]

fits here, if awkwardly: http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/10/09/72290.htm

[HI-FI]

:tu that's why its marketing. they dont actually benefit minorities, they just have them believing they do

im not on either team, i'm just an observer. as i've said before, i despise both parties. but i live in SoCal which is superduper liberal so thats the stuff i get shoved down my throat on a daily basis
i've never understood that. do people in Cali not realize that liberals own that state and have caused a lot of the problems, or do the people and illegals continue to vote Democrat regardless? are there many conservatives there or have they fled?

[Uriel]

They pay their fair share just by making more. To keep squeezing the rich because you hate them is stupid. Besides, their buying things with their extra money pays for jobs. Their investments provide capitol for borrowing.
First of all, it's "capital" and not "capitol." Second, it's pretty obvious you're not an economist, because you're merely regurgitating the myths that are so pervasive on the right. In an IMF report, real economists debunked the notion that tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs for people at the bottom.


I think it's better spent on what the multibillionaires want to spend it on because a.) they earned it, b.) you're not entitled to it, and c.) it's a free country....

You are a shill, and your posts are the text equivalents of those annoying robocalls that both parties send out during election cycles....
I find it so ironic that you would label me a "shill" considering you're the one who's merely subscribing to the Republican Party's modus operandi, while being unable to display any capacity for independent critical thinking.

I've read numerous books, journals, and academic articles on a wide-range of social, political, and economic treatises. I've engaged in discourse and debate with various people from all walks of life, and have formulated my political views through logic and reason.

You, on the other hand, merely regurgitate whatever is said on Fox News. Please read a book for once (or at least attend an Economics class), instead of getting all your information from Fox News, since you clearly don't have sufficient background knowledge to engage in reasoned discussion. You're way out of your league in this debate. Step outside of your narrow universe.

[spurraider21]

i've never understood that. do people in Cali not realize that liberals own that state and have caused a lot of the problems, or do the people and illegals continue to vote Democrat regardless? are there many conservatives there or have they fled?
most conservatives in Cali are in orange county, and in the middle of the state like Fresno. but yeah, i dont get some people's mindset. i think they believe bush fucked over california... i'm in further disbelief that they actually brought back jerry brown :lol... but to be fair the alternative was meg whitman. its just a terrible state, politically speaking. then everybody pretends to be liberal but they actually voted down Prop 8 a few years ago to legalize gay marriage

i dont think electing a bunch of conservatives will necessarily fix anything here though. at this point the state might be best off just filing for BK and hitting the restart button

[Infinite_limit]

most conservatives in Cali are in orange county, and in the middle of the state like Fresno. but yeah, i dont get some people's mindset. i think they believe bush fucked over california... i'm in further disbelief that they actually brought back jerry brown :lol... but to be fair the alternative was meg whitman. its just a terrible state, politically speaking. then everybody pretends to be liberal but they actually voted down Prop 8 a few years ago to legalize gay marriage

i dont think electing a bunch of conservatives will necessarily fix anything here though. at this point the state might be best off just filing for BK and hitting the restart button
San Diego is actually quite conservative given the military & wealthy suburban areas

When Bush ran for re-election, I was usually the only White person siding for Kerry in my classrooms. Poor Republicans are in the South and thus Californians don't see that. They simply look at which supporters resemble them physically and also who they want to emulate career wise.

Poor Republicans are usually involved religiously. Poor Democrats are wide ranging and cross many racial, cultural and career lines

[HI-FI]

most conservatives in Cali are in orange county, and in the middle of the state like Fresno. but yeah, i dont get some people's mindset. i think they believe bush fucked over california... i'm in further disbelief that they actually brought back jerry brown :lol... but to be fair the alternative was meg whitman. its just a terrible state, politically speaking. then everybody pretends to be liberal but they actually voted down Prop 8 a few years ago to legalize gay marriage

i dont think electing a bunch of conservatives will necessarily fix anything here though. at this point the state might be best off just filing for BK and hitting the restart button
agree with that. i don't know if conservatives would fix anything either, i just find it strange how much liberals have bankrupted that state yet people keep voting for them. i figure the elites want to emulate that model in Texas, bring a shitload of illegals here and convert it blue, regardless of the outcome. Texas is naturally more conservative and quite a bit different so I'm hoping the results won't be the same.

I don't know how to fix California tbh. I've never been to SoCal but need to check it out once and also to visit the Bay area again, see the new Levi Stadium.

[101A]

"Fair share" is asking those who are more well-off to pay a bigger share of taxes. The money of multibillionaires is better spent on financing health and education for the general public, instead of private yachts and vacation homes in island resorts. Don't you agree?

What does it matter what I agree? It's not my money. Who am I to judge how someone spends theirs; how they live their lives? I would think as a Democrat, you would not be in favor of such moral condemnations. Or is it only certain behaviors that you are open minded about? The top income tax rate is back to where Bill Clinton set it; 39%. Most states have income taxes on top of that.

Again, what is "fair"?

Or are you more concerned with accumulated wealth, and not income per se?

I would start, by the way, by eliminating the discrepancy between income and capital gains tax rates. It seems like a natural place to begin. The Democrats controlled the entire government not so many years ago - this was not proposed. They, however, did get rid of the "Bush Tax Cuts" (but only for the top earners - everyone else kept their lower rates). Despite those evil rates being repealed, income disparity has continued, and continues to trend upward...that's not what we were told would happen.

What gives?

[boutons_deux]

"What gives?"

the top rates are not high enough, the 1000s of tax avoidance loopholes and criminal tax evasion (eg, Mitt Romney) exist. I think the income inequality is past a tipping point where wealth accumulation, esp with the corrupt politicians on the take from that accumulated wealth, will continue. Also, job and wage suppression has kept the 99%'s incomes flat, even a real decline by 10%+ since 2000.

The rich are getting richer, the non-rich are getting poorer, and it's due to the rich gaming govt policies, and criminal tax evasion.

[russellgoat]

I can, because I'm one of them. We have a vision of an egalitarian society—one that will treat all people equally, regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any other factor that only serves to divide people. As Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream that one day, people will be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." To that end, we're willing to vote for economic policies that will further that vision. And the Democrats, when they support the raising of the minimum wage, pay equality for men and women, and tax rates that ask people from various income levels to pay their fair share, all help to realize that vision. In other words, we're willing to vote against our economic self-interest in order to achieve a fairer and more just society for everyone.

Which is why I can't understand why working-class Republicans would want to vote for a society that disproportionately favors the wealthy at their expense.

:lmao You chinks are the most racist people on earth, you don't like treating other races equally. You gooks are everywhere but you only allow a very small fraction of immigrants to your countries. I'm 100% sure that when you become the majority in Canada and Australia the immigration laws will be way more strict than they are today.

[101A]

"What gives?"

the top rates are not high enough, the 1000s of tax avoidance loopholes and criminal tax evasion (eg, Mitt Romney) exist. I think the income inequality is past a tipping point where wealth accumulation, esp with the corrupt politicians on the take from that accumulated wealth, will continue. Also, job and wage suppression has kept the 99%'s incomes flat, even a real decline by 10%+ since 2000.

The rich are getting richer, the non-rich are getting poorer, and it's due to the rich gaming govt policies, and criminal tax evasion.





Actually, I think it's primarily because, due to automation, individual worker productivity has skyrocketed in the past few decades. The business owners have reaped several lion's shares from that increase - without sharing it with the worker themselves. Compound that, now, with globalization in manufacturing, and consolidation in many other industries, and the middle-management and well-compensated labor jobs are evaporating, as well. We are left with a slide into two distinct classes: the owners, and the workers. (Exceptions are high-skilled positions; Dr's, Lawyers, Engineers, IT and Scientists) - these more and more, are making up the "upper middle class" - where they derive their incomes from actual compensation for work performed.

They, in turn, get punished the most when the "War on the Rich" gets waged. They don't have accumulated wealth, they have income; which is what is targeted. The truly rich, those with accumulated wealth, then, personify the war, but don't take the brunt of the shots in it. The news reports show the massive wealth of the bankers on Wal-Street, and then the politicians punish the Dr.'s and Lawyers on main street for that wealth.

By design.

[Blizzardwizard]

"Fair share" is asking those who are more well-off to pay a bigger share of taxes. The money of multibillionaires is better spent on financing health and education for the general public, instead of private yachts and vacation homes in island resorts. Don't you agree?

This x100.

Right on brother.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't think people want 'handouts' that's a cop-out....they just want a bigger piece of the pie...and to spend more time with family...

If that's true, they are most certainly stupid to vote democrat!

[Clipper Nation]

Yes, it does. We need a runoff system to stop this practice.
What we need is a voting populace of people who aren't too scared to put a checkmark next to a third-party candidate :lol

I've heard the "voting for the lesser of two evils" rationale a million times before and it never makes sense.... no matter how much you hold your nose, your vote counts the same as everyone else's, and all those votes are what keeps the two-party fraud in place....

[boutons_deux]

"We need a runoff system to stop this practice."

bullshit.

We need the Repugs to govern in good faith.

We need to get money out of politics.

We need to get vote-districting out of politicians. control.

The entire system is 100% corrupt. 2+ parties and your bullshit runoffs would be just as corrupt.

[Clipper Nation]

I find it so ironic that you would label me a "shill" considering you're the one who's merely subscribing to the Republican Party's modus operandi, while being unable to display any capacity for independent critical thinking.

I've read numerous books, journals, and academic articles on a wide-range of social, political, and economic treatises. I've engaged in discourse and debate with various people from all walks of life, and have formulated my political views through logic and reason.

You, on the other hand, merely regurgitate whatever is said on Fox News. Please read a book for once (or at least attend an Economics class), instead of getting all your information from Fox News, since you clearly don't have sufficient background knowledge to engage in reasoned discussion. You're way out of your league in this debate. Step outside of your narrow universe.
Nice meltdown, but I'm a registered Libertarian and far from a shill for the neocon GOP.... I can't stand the Republicans' warmongering and surveillance state, and feel they are just as bad as Democrats when it comes to shoving wedge issues down our throats, wasting taxpayer money, and reducing our freedoms.... I also do not watch any cable news at all....

The reality is that you are the one in the narrow partisan bubble, and you can't comprehend that there is a growing number of people like me who are fed up with the two-party bullshit and see it for what it is....

[boutons_deux]

"Libertarian"

:lol and hugely fraudulent (bowel) movement

[Clipper Nation]

:cry I'm a lib :cry

:cry Gary needs to redistribute the Stanley Cup to the Sharts. The Kings are too wealthy while we're poor and unfortunate. :cry
:lol

[Blizzardwizard]

:lol

Lib? Christ no :lol

I'm a centre-left socialist, the Libs in this country are a joke :lol



4-0 on banner night


:downspin:some more

[Clipper Nation]

It was 3-0 last April.

:downspin: that shitttt!

:lol Socialism
:lol Still tried, but never works
:lol Much like how the Sharts keep trying to win a Cup with Jumbo Choke and Marchoke

[Blizzardwizard]

It was 3-0 last April.

:downspin: that shitttt!

:lol Socialism
:lol Still tried, but never works
:lol Much like how the Sharts keep trying to win a Cup with Jumbo Choke and Marchoke

Hey man I can't disagree with that one :lol

[Wild Cobra]

What we need is a voting populace of people who aren't too scared to put a checkmark next to a third-party candidate :lol

I've heard the "voting for the lesser of two evils" rationale a million times before and it never makes sense.... no matter how much you hold your nose, your vote counts the same as everyone else's, and all those votes are what keeps the two-party fraud in place....
I agree, but having runoff elections will insure things like Clinton winning with under 50% in 1992 won't happen. Any idea how many people think Bush would have won if Perot didn't take so many votes? Many are scared shitless to vote 3rd party because of things like that.

[boutons_deux]

"Bush would have won if Perot didn't take so many votes"

Gore would have won FL and Presidency w/o Nader. All the Repug nightmares, from 2001 and well into the future, would have been avoided.

[Wild Cobra]

"Bush would have won if Perot didn't take so many votes"

Gore would have won FL and Presidency w/o Nader. All the Repug nightmares, from 2001 and well into the future, would have been avoided.


You start with a lie by changing the context of my quote. Why must you do such despicable things? I did not say bush would have won you idiot. I said "Any idea how many people think Bush would have won if Perot didn't take so many votes.

As for the 2000 election, maybe Gore would have won if not for Nadar.

My point is you have people who want to vote third party, but are afraid their vote will put their last choice in office instead of their second choice.

We need runoff elections. Bush should have never won Florida with less than 50%+1 of the vote.

[boutons_deux]

3rd parties MUST be the same corrupt whores as the 1st and 2nd parties, or they won't have enough $Bs to run elections.

so your 3rd-party-as-pure-white-knight fantasy delivering your Repug/Libertarian dystopia is hilarious, ridiculous, but that's you.

[Uriel]

:lmao You chinks are the most racist people on earth, you don't like treating other races equally. You gooks are everywhere but you only allow a very small fraction of immigrants to your countries. I'm 100% sure that when you become the majority in Canada and Australia the immigration laws will be way more strict than they are today.
First of all, "chink" is a racist slur. It's pretty ironic that you would condemn a group of people for racism even as you engage in that practice yourself.

Second, just because I said I was Asian doesn't mean I'm automatically of Chinese / Japanese / Korean descent. Asia is far too big a continent to be compartementalized like that.

[Aztecfan03]

What we need is a voting populace of people who aren't too scared to put a checkmark next to a third-party candidate :lol

I've heard the "voting for the lesser of two evils" rationale a million times before and it never makes sense.... no matter how much you hold your nose, your vote counts the same as everyone else's, and all those votes are what keeps the two-party fraud in place....

It depends on the candidate for me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What we need is a voting populace of people who aren't too scared to put a checkmark next to a third-party candidate :lol

I've heard the "voting for the lesser of two evils" rationale a million times before and it never makes sense.... no matter how much you hold your nose, your vote counts the same as everyone else's, and all those votes are what keeps the two-party fraud in place....

No what we need is a system that allows for viable candidates that don't rely on parties to function or at the very least allow for more than a handful of parties. Pluralism is dead.

[DarrinS]

. (Wrong thread)

[spurraider21]

No what we need is a system that allows for viable candidates that don't rely on parties to function or at the very least allow for more than a handful of parties. Pluralism is dead.
yeah, this is why i'm pretty apathetic when it comes to elections nowadays. no matter who the candidates are, you are simply voting for the party platforms, and i'm not a fan of either of the 2 parties