What does this play say about Kawhi and Tony's relationship as teammates?

[apalisoc_9]

http://i.imgur.com/IbqbsXx.jpg

wildchild
KL2

[weeks]

that tony's short and there's like two dudes directly between him and KL?

[TheyCallMePro]

It's actually very concerning. Parker tends to ignore Kawhi more than anyone else on the team, and also seems to be the most annoyed Spur when the media asks about how great Kawhi is.

TP usually closes games for us, but he failed miserably today missing 2 FT'S in the final minute. I think Pop is okay with the ball in his hands late, but the fact that TP seems unwilling to give it up is concerning, and I think he's personally very jealous of all the attention Kawhi in particular gets.

[HI-FI]

:lol
when everyone did that Hand Signal in the Alamodome celebration, Parker was the only one who didn't. my advice for Kawhi, stay single.

[100%duncan]

That you're all faggots

[Kool Bob Love]

:lol
when everyone did that Hand Signal in the Alamodome celebration, Parker was the only one who didn't. my advice for Kawhi, stay single.

Stay single wtf?

[HI-FI]

Stay single wtf?
i don't want to see that nig get Barry'd.

[apalisoc_9]

Fyi, Parker missed the shot

:lmao

[mkurts]

Parker needs to respect the open teammate despite his inclination to go MJ iso mode without the skillset ...

At this point in time the team needs a play making facilitator PG for others, not Westbrook the second.

[Spur|n|Austin]

:lol OP is a try-hard faggot

[100%duncan]

Parker pls :'(
Manu pls :'(



soon this faggot will complain about Duncan not passing to Kawhi in a blowout game

[Prose]

OMG! I thought I was the only one to notice this play and over analyze it! Bit concerning if Leonard's role in the offense play calling doesn't increase. Or if tony dosent pass the rock!

[Prose]

Parker needs to respect the open teammate despite his inclination to go MJ iso mode without the skillset ...

At this point in time the team needs a play making facilitator PG for others, not Westbrook the second.

he just won the award so he was trying to put a show on haha

[Spurs 4 The Win]

guys please stop, we won 5, its the preseason, dont go full retard

[ChumpDumper]

:lol
when everyone did that Hand Signal in the Alamodome celebration, Parker was the only one who didn't.False.

[phxspurfan]

That Tony was running a high PnR.

[DJR210]

OP reads teen gossip mags

[jhfenton]

guys please stop, we won 5, its the preseason, dont go full retard

Too late.

[Brazil]

What does this picture say about Kawhi and Tony's relationship as teammates ?

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/USATSI_79560461.jpg

[Brazil]

What does this play in the clutch for the win say about Kawhi and Tony's relationship as teammates ?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j225/SCSnare/kawhi-3_01_zpse94b3ab9.gif

[Brazil]

What about this pic tbh ?

http://redrockbasketball.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/032614-SW-NBA-Tony-Parker-Kawhi-Leonard-PI.jpg

[Brazil]

or this play ?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/828/300/KawhiLobParkerLakers_original.gif?1366860468

[Brazil]

OP is indeed a faggot

[lefty]

lol only posting GIF of Tony passing the ball :lol

Where did you find them TBH ?

You guys seem to forget al those plays where his teammates are wide open for 3 in the corners, but Tony decides to go to the basket anyway, gets his ass grounded to the floor, and from there he can see the other team scoring on the break

[Spur|n|Austin]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2013/05/spurs-TNRS108-AP.jpg

[lefty]

omg high 5s :lol

That changes everything

[Diego20]

What does this play in the clutch for the win say about Kawhi and Tony's relationship as teammates ?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j225/SCSnare/kawhi-3_01_zpse94b3ab9.gif

That TP wasn't able to make a shot and had to pass the ball? 5 seconds left, of course he was going to pass the ball?

[Brazil]

lol only posting GIF of Tony passing the ball :lol

Where did you find them TBH ?

You guys seem to forget al those plays where his teammates are wide open for 3 in the corners, but Tony decides to go to the basket anyway, gets his ass grounded to the floor, and from there he can see the other team scoring on the break

you are better than that tbh

OP is using one pic to wonder what this pic is telling us about their relationship... which is obviously a big faggotry and stupidity... as I demonstrated also using a pic or a random gif

same for your post you seem to forget all those plays where his teammates are wide open for 3 because attention he is getting and Tony decides to assist the open 3 guy... a dude like Matt has a career spoon fed by Parker drive to the rim...

I wish parker haters like manu haters could be a bit more subtil and clever with their trolling tbh

[Diego20]

you are better than that tbh

OP is using one pic to wonder what this pic is telling us about their relationship... which is obviously a big faggotry and stupidity... as I demonstrated also using a pic or a random gif

same for your post you seem to forget all those plays where his teammates are wide open for 3 because attention he is getting and Tony decides to assist the open 3 guy... a dude like Matt has a career spoon fed by Parker drive to the rim...

I wish parker haters like manu haters could be a bit more subtil and clever with their trolling tbh

You always have to pay attention to who has the ball, and TP always has the ball 16 seconds out of 24 in every play.

[lefty]

:lol Brazil on a rant

[Daniel Sedin]

Don't worry this is the same guy that thinks Kawhi has passed Manu and TP :lmao

[SupremeGuy]

:lol Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) on a rantlol getting trolled and doesn't afraid of nothing

[ChumpDumper]

you are better than that tbhlol no he's not

[Chinook]

Kawiso had plenty of touches yesterday. I hope that particular type of offense doesn't become the norm. Spurs don't need a poor man's Melo (offensively) out there.

[I. Hustle]

What does this picture say about Kawhi and Tony's relationship as teammates ?

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/USATSI_79560461.jpg

Look at how Tony is only really giving a hlaf hug. You can tell in his facial expression that he isn't fully into it. Judging by Kawhi's half chub, he is going full bro on Tony.

[spurspokesman]

As long as we are winning i have no beefs, i think they are cool with each other tbh

[wildchild]

OP is using one pic to wonder what this pic is telling us about their relationship...

I don't give a shit about the relationship between NBA players. The game is a business, we're Spurs fans and we can think is about family but we're wrong.

I don't expect that Tony'll be Kawhi's mentor or something like that, I just hope he can recognize a good matchup for Leonard and pass him the ball when he's wide open.
That's all I hope for.

Leonard can become an amazing player, he has incredible O/D skills and the desire to be a great...and sometimes needs the ball in his hands to be aggressive, at least needs the ball when a small guard defending him or when he's open.

The images/screenshots/etc don't tell the whole story but could show some players/coaches/teams tendencies.
Regular season 2013/14
http://i.imgur.com/3vPoOak.jpg

Playoffs 2014
http://i.imgur.com/rd1jp9O.jpg

IMO there are more than only one reason why these things happen. Tony is great, the best in many areas of the games, but in the strict sense of the playmaker word he doesn't reach Nash or Stockton level, he doesn't have their court vision or their passing skills.

On the other hand, Pop doesn't find the way to adapt his system and involve Kawhi on the offense. (or just he doesn't want)
Talking about coincidences, Leonard scored +20 in games Parker was injured or tired. It may be a sign of the lack of new-gun inclusion into the system.

[Brazil]

You always have to pay attention to who has the ball, and TP always has the ball 16 seconds out of 24 in every play.

sure Diego

BTW funny to see one of the best team ever at sharing the ball, finding open teammates and being a well oiled offensive machine with a ballhog PG 30 min per game on the floor having the ball 16 seconds out of 24 that does not pass to his teammates whether Manu or Kawhi... :lol

[Brazil]

:lol Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) on a rant

mid season form tbh :lol

[Brazil]

lol getting trolled and doesn't afraid of nothing

like I'm not aware of the trolling :lol even mentioned in my post

just think this troll is quite poor

[Brazil]

I don't give a shit about the relationship between NBA players. The game is a business, we're Spurs fans and we can think is about family but we're wrong.

I don't expect that Tony'll be Kawhi's mentor or something like that, I just hope he can recognize a good matchup for Leonard and pass him the ball when he's wide open.
That's all I hope for.

Leonard can become an amazing player, he has incredible O/D skills and the desire to be a great...and sometimes needs the ball in his hands to be aggressive, at least needs the ball when a small guard defending him or when he's open.

The images/screenshots/etc don't tell the whole story but could show some players/coaches/teams tendencies.
Regular season 2013/14


IMO there are more than only one reason why these things happen. Tony is great, the best in many areas of the games, but in the strict sense of the playmaker word he doesn't reach Nash or Stockton level, he doesn't have their court vision or their passing skills.

On the other hand, Pop doesn't find the way to adapt his system and involve Kawhi on the offense. (or just he doesn't want)
Talking about coincidences, Leonard scored +20 in games Parker was injured or tired. It may be a sign of the lack of new-gun inclusion into the system.


For the number of pics showing TP not recognizing a missmatch, I can find the same number of him doing it well

He is obviously not perfect and has his flaws, I just laugh at the idea of dude does not want to pass to Kawhi... never ending story... it started with Manu now Kawhi tomorrow Mills or Green

For the rest, as Parker is/was the primary offense weapon quite normal others score more when he is out so yeah no shit... that's an astonishing coincidence

[wildchild]

Kawiso had plenty of touches yesterday. I hope that particular type of offense doesn't become the norm. Spurs don't need a poor man's Melo (offensively) out there.

Explore new offensive variations in preseason games isn't a big problem.

I know, we saw Tony was going iso alot in last playoffs and the Spurs didn't have success in many of those iso situations, but I don't worry about Kawhi or another player iso because the Spurs played great ball movement last finals, with a more pass oriented offense.
I just hope that wasn't the direct results of Parker's injuries and the Spurs can continue playing in that way even with Tony healthy or playing at his peak.

[wildchild]

For the rest, as Parker is/was the primary offense weapon quite normal others score more when he is out so yeah no shit... that's an astonishing coincidence

I don't have any problem with Tony as the first offensive option, but if Pop wants to develop Leonard and take his game to an All-Star level, he needs add Kawhi into the offensive system.

I mean, I don't have problem if Tony scores 28 points but I want Leonard scores 18 in the same game, because he can be that 18-8 guy.

[100%duncan]

I don't give a shit about the relationship between NBA players. The game is a business, we're Spurs fans and we can think is about family but we're wrong.

I don't expect that Tony'll be Kawhi's mentor or something like that, I just hope he can recognize a good matchup for Leonard and pass him the ball when he's wide open.
That's all I hope for.

Leonard can become an amazing player, he has incredible O/D skills and the desire to be a great...and sometimes needs the ball in his hands to be aggressive, at least needs the ball when a small guard defending him or when he's open.

The images/screenshots/etc don't tell the whole story but could show some players/coaches/teams tendencies.
Regular season 2013/14
http://i.imgur.com/3vPoOak.jpg

Playoffs 2014
http://i.imgur.com/rd1jp9O.jpg

IMO there are more than only one reason why these things happen. Tony is great, the best in many areas of the games, but in the strict sense of the playmaker word he doesn't reach Nash or Stockton level, he doesn't have their court vision or their passing skills.

On the other hand, Pop doesn't find the way to adapt his system and involve Kawhi on the offense. (or just he doesn't want)
Talking about coincidences, Leonard scored +20 in games Parker was injured or tired. It may be a sign of the lack of new-gun inclusion into the system.

Brazil can also cherry pick Parker passes to Leonard tbh. Basically, if you base conclusions on screenshots, you're not worth the argument.

[BatManu20]

That they're lovers

[Brazil]

I don't have any problem with Tony as the first offensive option, but if Pop wants to develop Leonard and take his game to an All-Star level, he needs add Kawhi into the offensive system.

I mean, I don't have problem if Tony scores 28 points but I want Leonard scores 18 in the same game, because he can be that 18-8 guy.

I think we all agree with this except I don't think Leonard has to score 18 like Parker does not need to score 28. The key point is to establish the good balance among the team to win games. Only that matters: win games, players value more team wins than personnal stats, spurs fans should do the same.

[ElNono]

Tony just doesn't have the court vision, tbh... It's not personal or anything like that. Every player has positives and negatives in their game, that doesn't mean anything really, they just prefer to go with their strengths and Tony is a great finisher around the basket and supremely confident in his floater. His court vision isn't all that great, his glass shard dodging skills might suck, and you might need to inspect your wife's cellphone when he's around, but he consistently goes to his strengths and gets it done, so it's a lot easier to overlook plays like in the OP, IMO

[ElNono]

Kawiso had plenty of touches yesterday. I hope that particular type of offense doesn't become the norm. Spurs don't need a poor man's Melo (offensively) out there.

Shades of Kobe Leonard, tbh... I suspect Pop will let him test the waters early, at least until he signs an extension...

[Chinook]

Explore new offensive variations in preseason games isn't a big problem.

No, it's not a big deal. But if that's what Leonard wants from the Spurs in order to stay around long term, he can go on to another team. No way anyone wins consistently with him playing that way.


I know, we saw Tony was going iso alot in last playoffs and the Spurs didn't have success in many of those iso situations, but I don't worry about Kawhi or another player iso because the Spurs played great ball movement last finals, with a more pass oriented offense.

Parker ISOs are much better than Leonard's, since Parker's goal is to penetrate, which almost has to force a rotation. Kawhi should be able to become a great post player, but that won't force the same type of consistent movement of the defense.


I just hope that wasn't the direct results of Parker's injuries and the Spurs can continue playing in that way even with Tony healthy or playing at his peak.

I agree that Parker taking a back seat last year may have helped the Spurs discover their ball-movement. But MVParker is/was a better scorer than Kawhi can every hope to be. I see nothing wrong with mixing in Parker ISOs into the offense. I also don't see a problem with giving Leonard ISOs once he learns how to handle them. He won't consistently have the same hot-shooting streak he had the Finals.

[Chinook]

Shades of Kobe Leonard, tbh... I suspect Pop will let him test the waters early, at least until he signs an extension...

I want Leonard to go after mismatches. But I'm really hoping he passes a lot more in games that matter. He was shooting out of his mind during the Finals and scrimmage, and some of those shots he made were ones he shouldn't have taken under normal circumstances.

[wildchild]

Brazil can also cherry pick Parker passes to Leonard tbh. Basically, if you base conclusions on screenshots, you're not worth the argument.

I'm not worth...damn, you really hurt me.

As old as the concept of counting, people can look some usage rate about these situations, assist stats, close touches per game, elbow tocuches per game, etc.
But like I've said before, screenshots, stats, they're only indicators of some situation but don't fully describe the situation.

We can form different opinions, make different conclusions based on the same numbers or images. Maybe say IMO is a good thing after all...

[ElNono]

I want Leonard to go after mismatches. But I'm really hoping he passes a lot more in games that matter. He was shooting out of his mind during the Finals and scrimmage, and some of those shots he made were ones he shouldn't have taken under normal circumstances.

The regular season will be a good testbed. I trust Pop knows how long the leash needs to be.

[Chinook]

The regular season will be a good testbed. I trust Pop knows how long the leash needs to be.

I do, too. Pop likes Leonard a lot and wants him to develop into a franchise player. He'll make sure Kawhi grows at a good pace. However, I'm more worried that Kawhi will be upset with his place on the team. He certainly didn't seem content during media day, and that kind of stuff might wear on a locker room.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I do, too. Pop likes Leonard a lot and wants him to develop into a franchise player. He'll make sure Kawhi grows at a good pace. However, I'm more worried that Kawhi will be upset with his place on the team. He certainly didn't seem content during media day, and that kind of stuff might wear on a locker room.

Jesus, we are one game into the preseason and yall are already talking about locker room problems. The spurs are a class organization not a bunch of middle school cheerleaders. STFU

[Chinook]

Jesus, we are one game into the preseason and yall are already talking about locker room problems. The spurs are a class organization not a bunch of middle school cheerleaders. STFU

Yeah, because the Spurs have never had locker-room problems at all. :rolleyes

People have to get off this idea that the Spurs are saints. They have their issues just like anyone else. But they are better at keeping it in house. I'm not saying anything's going to happen. But I don't like Leonard's attitude, and I'll like it even less if his shot-selection goes south.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Yeah, because the Spurs have never had locker-room problems at all. :rolleyes

People have to get off this idea that the Spurs are saints. They have their issues just like anyone else. But they are better at keeping it in house. I'm not saying anything's going to happen. But I don't like Leonard's attitude, and I'll like it even less if his shot-selection goes south.

You just went full retard, never go full retard

[Chinook]

You just went full retard, never go full retard

Great to see you're bringing worthwhile takes.

[lefty]

I dont understand the Parker hate tbh



















He is a good 5th banana

[KL2]

I've always seen Leonard try to make an attempt at making friends with TP but it seems like TP never embraces him, and it reflects in their play. Leonard gets ignored a lot by TP, I know, I watch Leonard almost every single play lmao. TP does show a bias towards Diaw, he always makes an effort to get him the ball, so it makes it obvious when you see pics like this, proof. TP feels threatened by Leonard, it's pretty obvious. Parker wants to be the guy in SA, Leonard is a threat to that.

Parker can put up all kinds of points, doesn't mean it's going to be productive. We've seen time and time again in the NBA even when a player is scoring, it doesn't always help a team.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Great to see you're bringing worthwhile takes.

Look, if you want to commit suicide over some screencaps the faggot OP posted, some quotes you are over-analyzing, and a preseason game that is fucking meaningless.... then go ahead. Clearly you need drama in your life or something because this is the preseason and you are already losing it. Get a hobby dude, come back and talk about this shit if something of substance ever happens (spolier: it wont)

[KL2]

Parker ISOs are much better than Leonard's, since Parker's goal is to penetrate, which almost has to force a rotation. Kawhi should be able to become a great post player, but that won't force the same type of consistent movement of the defense.

Are they really? Leonard has shown an ability to penetrate and finish strong, the man is 6'7 230+, he's deadly in the paint and he's not intimidated by shot blockers like Parker is. He can grill a defender like Ibaka, he's got floaters, a post game with elite size few can guard, turn around jumpers etc. Usually a player playing well on offense also plays well on defense, Leonard can take over there, TP can't. Parker's passes are nothing Leonard can't do, it's nothing special, kick out to the wide open player.

Leonard has also shown an ability to draw fouls consistently (and make them at a decent %), as well as finish strong with contact. Against OKC he was bowling through Perkins, against MIA it was Bosh and others, he's a power player.




I agree that Parker taking a back seat last year may have helped the Spurs discover their ball-movement. But MVParker is/was a better scorer than Kawhi can every hope to be. I see nothing wrong with mixing in Parker ISOs into the offense. I also don't see a problem with giving Leonard ISOs once he learns how to handle them. He won't consistently have the same hot-shooting streak he had the Finals.

That's still up for debate. Leonard is already a more complete offensive player than Parker was at this stage of his career, Parker was a very 1 dimensional, didn't develop a jumper for years. Leonard is one of the most complete offensive players on the team, and scores with his defense as well. He's very hard to guard as well, whereas you could always put a lengthy defender on TP to lock him down, or a shot blocker in the paint to scare him away (if his jumper wasn't falling he was done).

[Chinook]

Look, if you want to commit suicide over some screencaps the faggot OP posted, some quotes you are over-analyzing, and a preseason game that is fucking meaningless.... then go ahead. Clearly you need drama in your life or something because this is the preseason and you are already losing it. Get a hobby dude, come back and talk about this shit if something of substance ever happens (spolier: it wont)

Goods.

I'm not worried about the Spurs. But I don't like the way Kawhi's acting. That you don't know the difference between panic and making an observation says more about you than it does about me.

[Brazil]

I've always seen Leonard try to make an attempt at making friends with TP but it seems like TP never embraces him, and it reflects in their play. Leonard gets ignored a lot by TP, I know, I watch Leonard almost every single play lmao. TP does show a bias towards Diaw, he always makes an effort to get him the ball, so it makes it obvious when you see pics like this, proof. TP feels threatened by Leonard, it's pretty obvious. Parker wants to be the guy in SA, Leonard is a threat to that.



link ?

way to speak out of your ass tbh

[peacemaker885]

Look, if you want to commit suicide over some screencaps the faggot OP posted, some quotes you are over-analyzing, and a preseason game that is fucking meaningless.... then go ahead. Clearly you need drama in your life or something because this is the preseason and you are already losing it. Get a hobby dude, come back and talk about this shit if something of substance ever happens (spolier: it wont)

Unfortunately Spurstalk is laced with these. Just add them to your ignore list.

[Brazil]

I had a look on basketball reference to see to whom Parker dished his 388 assists during regular season

Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=duncati01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 105
Boris Diaw (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=diawbo01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 53
Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=leonaka01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 52
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=greenda02&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 48
Marco Belinelli (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=belinma01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 39
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=ginobma01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 31
Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=splitti01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 23
Matt Bonner (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bonnema01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 14
Jeff Ayres (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=pendeje02&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 10
Patrick Mills (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=millspa02&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 4

So .14 of his assists go to Kawhi same than Boris... now yes Parker played more minutes with Leonard than Boris so per min ratio Kawhi is behind Boris. If you look month after month % for Kawhi increased after Kawhi had a rough start with his address.

Now look at the POs

he gave 20 of his assists out of 111 to Kawhi wich is a notable increase in %. To compare Boris received half of what Leonard got while minutes played with Boris increased vs. RS. So when it matters, Parker gave 1/3 of his assists to Tim, second feeded was Kawhi with .18 then Dany then Tiago (with low minutes played together) then Boris.

As a conclusion in POs :lol at the notion TP shows bias towards Boris, Kawhi is the second preferred option and TP game (big surprise) is made of P&R with Tim / Tiago and find the open 3 guy (Danny / Kawhi / Beli) and definitely TP does not like Manu :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

I had a look on basketball reference to see to whom Parker dished his 388 assists during regular season

Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=duncati01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 105
Boris Diaw (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=diawbo01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 53
Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=leonaka01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 52
Danny Green (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=greenda02&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 48
Marco Belinelli (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=belinma01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 39
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=ginobma01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 31
Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=splitti01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 23
Matt Bonner (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bonnema01&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 14
Jeff Ayres (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=pendeje02&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 10
Patrick Mills (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/event_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=millspa02&event_code=fg&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=N) 4

So .14 of his assists go to Kawhi same than Boris... now yes Parker played more minutes with Leonard than Boris so per min ratio Kawhi is behind Boris. If you look month after month % for Kawhi increased after Kawhi had a rough start with his address.

Now look at the POs

he gave 20 of his assists out of 111 to Kawhi wich is a notable increase in %. To compare Boris received half of what Leonard got while minutes played with Boris increased vs. RS. So when it matters, Parker gave 1/3 of his assists to Tim, second feeded was Kawhi with .18 then Dany then Tiago (with low minutes played together) then Boris.

As a conclusion in POs :lol at the notion TP shows bias towards Boris, Kawhi is the second preferred option and TP game (big surprise) is made of P&R with Tim / Tiago and find the open 3 guy (Danny / Kawhi / Beli) and definitely TP does not like Manu :lol
Got em

[wildchild]

Not sure if I should laugh or feel bad...
We was talking all regular season about Kawhi wasn't enough aggressive, who can be with that assist rate?

In playoffs, second preferred option on only 100/110 assist when 1/3 of them are Tim plays...

Really, they aren't good numbers for a young player who wants a bigger role on offense, even they aren't good for an elite PG like Parker. A low, low percentage.

[Brazil]

Not sure if I should laugh or feel bad...
We was talking all regular season about Kawhi wasn't enough aggressive, who can be with that assist rate?

In playoffs, second preferred option on only 100/110 assist when 1/3 of them are Tim plays...

Really, they aren't good numbers for a young player who wants a bigger role on offense, even they aren't good for an elite PG like Parker. A low, low percentage.

:lol what's your point tho ?

tp should give less touches to Duncan and privileged Kawhi ? I'm fine with TP feeding Duncan tbh after him next target is Kawhi not sure what is wrong here. p&r and open 3s are the bread and butter on Spurs offense, Duncan and splitter are elite on that but why not trying some with Kawhi ala Lebron.

at the end what matters is winning games

[RD2191]

Yeah, because the Spurs have never had locker-room problems at all. :rolleyes

People have to get off this idea that the Spurs are saints. They have their issues just like anyone else. But they are better at keeping it in house. I'm not saying anything's going to happen. But I don't like Leonard's attitude, and I'll like it even less if his shot-selection goes south.
Lol, the fuck outta here. You usually bring good takes but I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Leonard's attitude? Really?:lol

[wildchild]

:lol what's your point tho ?

tp should give less touches to Duncan and privileged Kawhi ?

No. I said these stats are low/ low porcentage.

If Tony increases his assists rate, Kawhi would benefit from new numbers

[Chinook]

Lol, the fuck outta here. You usually bring good takes but I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Leonard's attitude? Really?:lol

I think Kawhi is frustrated with his contract situation, riding a high from the Finals. That's all understandable. But I also think he feels he deserves more minutes/touches. But those things are relative. Every minute/touch he gets is one less someone else gets. It's not going to go over well with teammates if anyone is complaining about their usage, since they're ALL sacrificing, and some have sacrificed for years, for the good of the whole.

I think Leonard's ego is creeping out a bit. In some ways, that's a good and even necessary thing for his long-term progression. But his shot-selection will be telling. If he jacks up a bunch a jumpers like he did in the last game (which is pre-season and is not a reliable indicator of what will end up happening), then I will officially begin to worry about this. He has the potential to be a very good scorer, but his Finals performance (offensively) was almost as flukey as Green's the year before. That Leonard (again, offensively) isn't going to help the team win consistently.

It's been a long time since Pop has had to groom a "star". We'll see how the situation with Leonard plays out.

[KL2]

link ?

way to speak out of your ass tbh

It's pretty obvious if you've ever watched a spurs game, there is a reason Parker isn't getting Leonard the ball. You can just tell by his attitude

[Brazil]

No. I said these stats are low/ low porcentage.

If Tony increases his assists rate, Kawhi would benefit from new numbers

I don't follow you... What is low ? Parker total number of assists ?

[Brazil]

It's pretty obvious if you've ever watched a spurs game, there is a reason Parker isn't getting Leonard the ball. You can just tell by his attitude

When you will back up what you are saying with facts and numbers... Come back to me

attitude :rolleyes

[spurraider21]

Parker ISOs are much better than Leonard's, since Parker's goal is to penetrate, which almost has to force a rotation. Kawhi should be able to become a great post player, but that won't force the same type of consistent movement of the defense.
yep. a post play should be the result of the offense, not the initiation of the offense. unless you have a legendary post player who is also a great passer, like prime Duncan, just running postups for an iso player will stagnate an offense. we see this with melo and past-prime kobe.

but if you run a play/set which generates movement/rotation that is able to free up Kawhi for good post position to finish, thats different

[Chinook]

We was talking all regular season about Kawhi wasn't enough aggressive, who can be with that assist rate?

Those two things don't equal each other. For all they show, Kawhi could have been passing up open shots whenever he got the ball, which would drive down his assist rate. Or he could have immediately gone into the post and taken five seconds to shoot, which would also drive down the assist rate.

Duncan and Splitter are bigs, and Green is a shooter. Of course they are going to have high assist rates, since they usually shoot whenever they touch the ball (and are very efficient at doing so). Leonard and especially Ginobili are more likely to drive when they catch the ball, which will often result in the passer losing an assist opportunity.

Plus, when you're talking about running a PnR, Leonard would probably be the worst option to pass it to (besides perhaps the non-screening big). The roll-man has a shot at the basket while Green is one of the best three-point shooters in the league. Unless Kawhi's in big-head mode, you almost have to go to those guys when they're open before passing it to Leonard, especially early in the year when he couldn't shoot.

[Chinook]

yep. a post play should be the result of the offense, not the initiation of the offense. unless you have a legendary post player who is also a great passer, like prime Duncan, just running postups for an iso player will stagnate an offense. we see this with melo and past-prime kobe.

but if you run a play/set which generates movement/rotation that is able to free up Kawhi for good post position to finish, thats different

Indeed, and I think we'll see that occur more often. No reason why Leonard should be ignored when he has a mismatch, and that obviously happened a lot last year. But the Spurs need to stay away from making Leonard another Melo on offense, at least until they're rebuilding.

[DesignatedT]

Leonard is his own person with his own personality. Can't believe people are complaining about him. Do people want him to just be quiet and run corner to corner ala RJ or something? Leonard wants the ball more and that's a sign of a winner. He hasn't caused any rift by saying he wants the ball. Does it appear he has a different personality than lets say Tim? Sure, but he's the future and to see that he isn't afraid of the spotlight and pressure is a very welcoming sight. Does this mean he gets a pass at bad shot selection? No, but lets not act like he's the only one who takes bad shots on the team. Criticism for Leonard is not warranted at all right now but Chinook has never liked Kawhi. That's pretty obvious if you have been keeping up with these boards the last three years.

Kawhi needs and deserves just as many shots as anyone on the team this year. Him and Parker should be 1a and 1b in shot attempts. It is up to Pop to find him shots. If anything, Pop will deserve more criticism if Kawhi is forcing up shots because that means Pop is not utilizing him correctly and still hasn't incorporated him into the offense which would be a huge mistake. I think they will all figure it out and be fine though.

[Baam]

Yeah the situation is more fragile than it looks on the outside.

Pop will probably start Boris to give Kawhi more room and then he should run the 1-3 PnR which he never does for some reason...

Boris is the one guy that doesn't give a fuck about his shots and who you can trust to make the "right" pass so in a (my) perfect world Pop would run everything through him and everyone else would be OK with his bball instinct distributing the shots between everyone else.

[Chinook]

Criticism for Leonard is not warranted at all right now but Chinook has never liked Kawhi. That's pretty obvious if you have been keeping up with these boards the last three years.

I've had little problem with Kawhi himself. I've just never liked people anointing him the future of the franchise. I don't think he's good enough, at least by himself. What I don't like is him saying multiple times in one interview how much he wants the ball/ playing time, especially when he mentioned how the Spurs said they were going to make him a bigger part of the offense last year and didn't. That completely ignored the slump that Leonard began the year in, during which Pop tried giving Kawhi and Green more touches in more dynamic situations.

Kawhi has to get better before he deserves minutes. I understand that his splits show he's a better player as he gets more time (which almost no one even mentions surprisingly). But qualitatively speaking, he needs to be more consistent and better able to score in situations that don't require him to use so many possessions. I think he is already a great player, and he'll be even better. But it's hard to side with him complaining about minutes when the Spurs have four starting-caliber wings and one of the better three-big rotations, AND play in so many blowouts that everyone's MPG is relatively small.

[Baam]

Leonard is his own person with his own personality. Can't believe people are complaining about him. Do people want him to just be quiet and run corner to corner ala RJ or something? Leonard wants the ball more and that's a sign of a winner. He hasn't caused any rift by saying he wants the ball. Does it appear he has a different personality than lets say Tim? Sure, but he's the future and to see that he isn't afraid of the spotlight and pressure is a very welcoming sight. Does this mean he gets a pass at bad shot selection? No, but lets not act like he's the only one who takes bad shots on the team. Criticism for Leonard is not warranted at all right now but Chinook has never liked Kawhi. That's pretty obvious if you have been keeping up with these boards the last three years.

Kawhi needs and deserves just as many shots as anyone on the team this year. Him and Parker should be 1a and 1b in shot attempts. It is up to Pop to find him shots. If anything, Pop will deserve more criticism if Kawhi is forcing up shots because that means Pop is not utilizing him correctly and still hasn't incorporated him into the offense which would be a huge mistake. I think they will all figure it out and be fine though.

I think youre overrating his ability to create his shot at this point.

[wildchild]

I don't follow you... What is low ? Parker total number of assists ?

If I respond...then you'll talk about hockey assists or some shit like that and I've said before I gonna kill myself if people continue mentioning those things.

[RD2191]

If I respond...then you'll talk about hockey assists or some shit like that and I've said before I gonna kill myself if people continue mentioning those things.
:lol

[Chinook]

I think youre overrating his ability to create his shot at this point.

I agree. I think what people are overrating most is the level to which Kawhi is a mismatch. Leonard's a good physical specimen, but the only elite tanglible he has for his position is wingspan. (He's a great player because he has tremendous intanglibles.) Most SFs should be able to do a pretty good job at checking Kawhi unless he goes into big-head mode like he did in the Finals.

Leonard's strong enough to the point that he can score in the post. He's fast enough and can handle well enough to where he can score off the dribble. But are Leonard post-ups against guys his on size or Leonard pull-ups with the defense in his face good shots? Not by the Spurs' standards. What Kawhi excels at are shots that are only really efficient when he has a mismatch (a small in the post or a big on the perimeter), which is something that can only be game-planned for so much.

[RD2191]

I think Kawhi is frustrated with his contract situation, riding a high from the Finals. That's all understandable. But I also think he feels he deserves more minutes/touches. But those things are relative. Every minute/touch he gets is one less someone else gets. It's not going to go over well with teammates if anyone is complaining about their usage, since they're ALL sacrificing, and some have sacrificed for years, for the good of the whole.

I think Leonard's ego is creeping out a bit. In some ways, that's a good and even necessary thing for his long-term progression. But his shot-selection will be telling. If he jacks up a bunch a jumpers like he did in the last game (which is pre-season and is not a reliable indicator of what will end up happening), then I will officially begin to worry about this. He has the potential to be a very good scorer, but his Finals performance (offensively) was almost as flukey as Green's the year before. That Leonard (again, offensively) isn't going to help the team win consistently.

It's been a long time since Pop has had to groom a "star". We'll see how the situation with Leonard plays out.
If he starts taking more shots then you can bet your ass pop will be on it. Pop controls his team like no one else. Pop will tell Kawhi if he's taking too many shots, not enough, or just right. Which is why I don't understand why players like Parker used to get shit for taking too may shots. That's what Pop wanted and that's what Pop got.

[DesignatedT]

Kawhi has to get better before he deserves minutes. I understand that his splits show he's a better player as he gets more time (which almost no one even mentions surprisingly). But qualitatively speaking, he needs to be more consistent and better able to score in situations that don't require him to use so many possessions. I think he is already a great player, and he'll be even better. But it's hard to side with him complaining about minutes when the Spurs have four starting-caliber wings and one of the better three-big rotations, AND play in so many blowouts that everyone's MPG is relatively small.


I think it's understandable to a degree that he is a bit frustrated when Pop himself admitted he called a whopping 2 plays for him all season long. Especially when he sees Tony and Manu get an abundance of plays called for them every game. It's still up to Pop to find ways to get him the ball in spots where he can be successful. If Leonard start to miss all his attempts and the team ends up being worse off than criticism would be warranted. He's young and obviously doesn't have the best interpersonal skills and some things might have been better unsaid to media outlets but that's a part of a young player growing as well. Like I said earlier, the fact that he wants the ball and clearly isn't at a lack of confidence is a great sign for his future development. Winners want the ball.

[DesignatedT]

I think youre overrating his ability to create his shot at this point.

I am not asking to give the ball to him and get out of the way every play but it doesn't hurt to put him in that situation at some points. That's how you get better as a player. Pop needs to figure out ways to get him the ball where he can be effective. Moving him around the court and creating a mismatch is key instead of sitting him in the corner. He's clearly shown flashes in the post, especially when he has a smaller defender on him.

[Chinook]

If he starts taking more shots then you can bet your ass pop will be on it. Pop controls his team like no one else. Pop will tell Kawhi if he's taking too many shots, not enough, or just right. Which is why I don't understand why players like Parker used to get shit for taking too may shots. That's what Pop wanted and that's what Pop got.

That's where I feel a potential problem would occur. It doesn't make a ton of sense to pencil Kawhi in for touches, because he doesn't force a rotation with his style of play (unless there's already a mismatch). It makes a lot more sense to let Parker drive and kick when the defense collapses on him. I honestly feel that it's extremely hard to run a successful offense through a wing, which is both why James is so incredible and why the Thunder can't seem to keep Durant involved consistently when Westbrook's on the floor. If Leonard can't move the defense, then his possessions are either going to end in isolations or in a PnR, which Parker would be better at doing.

I've really wanted Kawhi to set more PnR screens, since that could easily force the type of switch necessary to get him a mismatch in the post. Also, since Leonard can shoot well, he could pop to keep the defense honest. I think using him that way makes a lot more sense than giving him the ball at the beginning of plays.

[wildchild]

Those two things don't equal each other. For all they show, Kawhi could have been passing up open shots whenever he got the ball, which would drive down his assist rate. Or he could have immediately gone into the post and taken five seconds to shoot, which would also drive down the assist rate.
Or just he couldn't get the ball, he couldn't have received the ball...That could be the simple and logical reason (even more if you look his usage rate).


Plus, when you're talking about running a PnR, Leonard would probably be the worst option to pass it to (besides perhaps the non-screening big). The roll-man has a shot at the basket while Green is one of the best three-point shooters in the league. Unless Kawhi's in big-head mode, you almost have to go to those guys when they're open before passing it to Leonard, especially early in the year when he couldn't shoot.
An open three-point isn't the only way to finish the pick-and-roll...

[Chinook]

I agree with the heart of your post. I think that it's a good thing for Kawhi to want the ball more. But I imagine everyone on the team wants that. They're all better players than the roles they play. It's a zero-sum game when it comes to dolling out minutes/touches. A consistent and vocal campaign for the ball is not a good thing for a team where everyone at least tries to leave their egos at the door. I don't think it's bad yet, and don't assume it's going to get bad, but we'll see. The last time the Spurs had a young-ish FMVP, he became the star of the team rather quickly. That may not happen with Leonard.


It's still up to Pop to find ways to get him the ball in spots where he can be successful.

As I said to Rob, I think running a 1/3 PnR would be the best way to get Leonard the touches he wants. It would require a stretch-four be on the floor to give the proper spacing, but it should force the PG to switch onto Leonard in the high-post area. Then all Kawhi has to do is establish position can call for the pass, provided Parker hasn't scored or kicked the ball out to a shooter.

[Chinook]

Or just he couldn't get the ball, he couldn't have received the ball...That could be the simple and logical reason (even more if you look his usage rate).

Usage rate only talks about ended possessions. So if Kawhi is tentative and passes the ball off for a non-assist, it wouldn't be counted in his usage rate. Anyway, if Kawhi isn't open, why is that Parker's problem?


An open three-point isn't the only way to finish the pick-and-roll...

No. It's the third option. The first is the PG scoring, which Parker is about the best in the league at doing. The second is the roll-man finishing, and Splitter and Duncan are very good at both scoring and putting themselves in position to receive the pass. A kick-out is probably going to be to a shooter beyond the arc. If you had a choice on who you wanted to shoot from distance, it would probably be Green. More importantly, Green is more likely to generate an assist from a Parker kick-out, both because Leonard is not as good of a shooter and because Leonard is more likely to kill the assist opportunity by driving.

[wildchild]

I think it's understandable to a degree that he is a bit frustrated when Pop himself admitted he called a whopping 2 plays for him all season long. Especially when he sees Tony and Manu get an abundance of plays called for them every game. It's still up to Pop to find ways to get him the ball in spots where he can be successful. If Leonard start to miss all his attempts and the team ends up being worse off than criticism would be warranted. He's young and obviously doesn't have the best interpersonal skills and some things might have been better unsaid to media outlets but that's a part of a young player growing as well. Like I said earlier, the fact that he wants the ball and clearly isn't at a lack of confidence is a great sign for his future development. Winners want the ball.
I couldn't have said it any better...

[wildchild]

Usage rate only talks about ended possessions. So if Kawhi is tentative and passes the ball off for a non-assist, it wouldn't be counted in his usage rate. Anyway, if Kawhi isn't open, why is that Parker's problem?
All thread is about why Kawhi doesn't receive the ball when he's open...


No. It's the third option. The first is the PG scoring, which Parker is about the best in the league at doing. The second is the roll-man finishing, and Splitter and Duncan are very good at both scoring and putting themselves in position to receive the pass. A kick-out is probably going to be to a shooter beyond the arc. If you had a choice on who you wanted to shoot from distance, it would probably be Green. More importantly, Green is more likely to generate an assist from a Parker kick-out, both because Leonard is not as good of a shooter and because Leonard is more likely to kill the assist opportunity by driving.
Well, that's what we are talking about...those aren't permanent or no way fixed options. I expect Pop finds another variations to involve Kawhi.

[Chinook]

All thread is about why Kawhi doesn't receive the ball when he's open...

It happened a lot, more than was necessary. No one's debating that. The issue most were talking about is whether it was intentional on Parker's part, which the stats don't suggest. I was talking about whether Kawhi deserves to be a first option, which sort of became a side issue.


Well, that's what we are talking about...those aren't permanent or no way fixed options. I expect Pop finds another variations to involve Kawhi.

I mean options to be in a progression, not as things to choose among equally. Leonard is about the last person Parker should pass it to on a PnR. He's just not going to be all that efficient unless he's parked in a corner (and even then, he was terrible to start last season shooting). Threes and shots at the rim are the best ones to get in basketball.

Again, the goal of involving Kawhi should be to improve the team. Right now, Leonard's go-to shots aren't really as good as the ones most other players take. If you can get a Duncan touch in the paint or an open Green three, you do that before you give it to Leonard at the elbow. I think there are ways to get Leonard in good position, but by no means is that an automatic improvement to the offense.

[Brazil]

That's what lm saying...TP / manu with Duncan or splitter run one of the most efficient P&R of the league. That's a huge part of Spurs offense, from there when defense collapse whether guards or bigs kick out to open 3 pts shooter where Danny is lethal. To get more touches for Kawhi without running isos solution could be ito involve Kawhi on those P&R.
This has nothing to do with parker not willing to give a freaking assist to Leonard.

We all agree Kawhi needs more touches, team must find ways without disrupting what make Spurs so successful.

[wildchild]

It happened a lot, more than was necessary. No one's debating that. The issue most were talking about is whether it was intentional on Parker's part, which the stats don't suggest. I was talking about whether Kawhi deserves to be a first option, which sort of became a side issue.
It's good to know we're talking about different things...Intentional isn't related to a lack of passing skills or court vision.


I mean options to be in a progression, not as things to choose among equally. Leonard is about the last person Parker should pass it to on a PnR. He's just not going to be all that efficient unless he's parked in a corner(and even then, he was terrible to start last season shooting). Threes and shots at the rim are the best ones to get in basketball.

Again, the goal of involving Kawhi should be to improve the team. Right now, Leonard's go-to shots aren't really as good as the ones most other players take. If you can get a Duncan touch in the paint or an open Green three, you do that before you give it to Leonard at the elbow. I think there are ways to get Leonard in good position, but by no means is that an automatic improvement to the offense.

Sometimes improvement is a matter of trial and error, he needs the oportunities to learn from mistakes because he's the only true two-way wing player on the team, the younger with the highest ceiling.
Kawhi's development should be a priority to improve the team and the key to the Spurs future (just remember that we won't sign a superstar next summer)

I add "unless he's parked in a corner" to "hockey assists" like the things I never want to read again.

[ElNono]

Tony needs to pull a DRob when Tim came around, tbh... Realize he'll win more prioritizing the future of the franchise over his own ego. Pop already started to work the psychological angle during the Finals with the "good leadership" babble, it's clear they expect the torch to be passed, we just gotta hope Tony understands the not so subliminal message...












/bluefont

[Chinook]

It's good to know we're talking about different things...Intentional isn't related to a lack of passing skills or court vision.

What does that have to do with anything? We know Parker can pass.


Sometimes improvement is a matter of trial and error, he needs the oportunities to learn from mistakes because he's the only true two-way wing player on the team, the younger with the highest ceiling.
Kawhi's development should be a priority to improve the team and the key to the Spurs future (just remember that we won't sign a superstar next summer)

The only part I agree on is that Leonard needs to develop. Everything else is Kawhi-homer talk.


I add "unless he's parked in a corner" to "hockey assists" like the things I never want to read again.

So?

[apalisoc_9]

What does that have to do with anything? We know Parker can pass.

So why doesn't he pass when Kawhi is wide open or against a 6'0 while he has a wing defender on him?

[Chinook]

So why doesn't he pass when Kawhi is wide open or against a 6'0 while he has a wing defender on him?

Why did Leonard jack up a contested jumper from the short corner when he had four open teammates?

[wildchild]

Everything else is Kawhi-homer talk

Well, if you think the Spurs have other true two-way wing and all around wing player or think they have a better option to develop and build the future, maybe you're talking about another team.

[Chinook]

Well, if you think the Spurs have other true two-way wing and all around wing player or think they have a better option to develop and build the future, maybe you're talking about another team.

What the hell does most of that even mean? What's a "true two-way wing"? Do you just mean a wing who can score and defend? Spurs have three of those. What do you mean by "all around wing player"? Same thing as before? Again, the Spurs have three of those. As far as option to build around, that's not saying much. The Spurs' best chance of staying competitive is to try for a free agent. If that doesn't happen, the team is done. Building around Leonard is like Philly building around Iggy a few years ago. They couldn't consistently make the playoffs, and they eventually had to blow it up anyway.

[wildchild]

/bluefont

We all see you...and don't buy the bluefont.






^ bluefont

[wildchild]

The Spurs' best chance of staying competitive is to try for a free agent. If that doesn't happen, the team is done.

So the team is done. Just tank for the next Duncan.

I mean, I don't believe that but in your opinion the FA is our best chance...or just tank.

[Chinook]

So the team is done. Just tank for the next Duncan.

I mean, I don't believe that but in your opinion the FA is our best chance...or just tank.

Yep. Spurs have a championship core. But they'll need a new star PF or two high-caliber players to replace some of what Tim and Manu bring.

[HI-FI]

False.
Be more specific.

[wildchild]

What the hell does most of that even mean? What's a "true two-way wing"? Do you just mean a wing who can score and defend? Spurs have three of those. What do you mean by "all around wing player"? Same thing as before? Again, the Spurs have three of those.
Really? On Spurs roster? They don't have three wings who can score and defend at elite level like Leonard, and don't have three all around wings...(a two-way wing/all around wing not the same).

[Venti Quattro]

This is the same op who said that advanced stats would've made the Heat win the Finals last June. :lmao

[Chinook]

Really? On Spurs roster? They don't have three wings who can score and defend at elite level like Leonard, and don't have three all around wings...(a two-way wing/all around wing not the same).

Differentiate them, then.

Anyway, being two-way doesn't mean you have to be the best at both. Green is the team's best defender in most categories, but he's also a very efficient offensive option who can pretty much take over a series when he gets hot. Leonard is the best defender in the other categories, and he's efficient enough on offense to make the defense accountable, and he's great at exploiting mismatches. Manu is a capable defender who can still scrap with the best of them despite being old, and he's easily the best offensive wing on the team. Those are three two-way wings. Non two-way wings are players like Harden or Tony Allen, who excel at one side of the ball while being liabilities on the other side.

[wildchild]

Differentiate them, then.

Anyway, being two-way doesn't mean you have to be the best at both.

But it means they have to be great on both ends.
I still love to see Manu play but he isn't defensive great now like Kawhi, and Danny isn't offensive great like him. Danny isn't a really two-way player, he's an amazing 3-D guy...so the team don't have three of them, just have Leonard.

You know exactly what's an all around player I don't need explain.

[Chinook]

But it means they have to be great on both ends.

No, it doesn't. Green is an elite shooter, and probably the most efficient per-shot scorer on the team. Ginobili will still make key defensive plays to win games or bang with players much better than him. Manu is significantly better on offense than Kawhi. Compared to him, Leonard is not "great" offensively. Really, you're trying to split hairs to elevate Leonard on some pedestal. The Spurs have only a couple of one-way players, and perhaps only one or two more who allow one side to slip outside of big moments. That's the reason why they're so good.


You know exactly what's an all around player I don't need explain.

Dodged the hell out of that, eh?

[wildchild]

No, it doesn't. Green is an elite shooter, and probably the most efficient per-shot scorer on the team. Ginobili will still make key defensive plays to win games or bang with players much better than him. Manu is significantly better on offense than Kawhi. Compared to him, Leonard is not "great" offensively.
Green isn't a versatile scorer, he's a three point elite shooter, so he's a 3D guy. And Manu still can make some defensive play but you don't put him on the opposing team's best player all game, they aren't two-way player like Leonard.


Dodged the hell out of that, eh?
Not really. I just don't want to spend my time explaining things which don't need to be explained.

[Chinook]

Just a poor attempt to narrowly frame things to make Leonard seem unique. And your unwillingness to define does your point no favors.

[ChumpDumper]

Be more specific.He made the same sign as all the others.

[Man In Black]

The OP needs to get off their knees.
Seriously...I've been watching Kawhi since he was down the street at SDSU and I love the player that he's become....he will be the future, but I ain't building a shrine the way the OP does. Its bordeline OCD.

[HI-FI]

He made the same sign as all the others.
eh not so sure, check around the 1:27 mark. maybe you have a Special Edition version where they CGI in the hand sign though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE2BZoa-40A

[ChumpDumper]

eh not so sure, check around the 1:27 mark. maybe you have a Special Edition version where they CGI in the hand sign though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE2BZoa-40AThought we were talking about the actual award presentation.

lol spurfan is so sensitive.

[ChumpDumper]

Holy shit! One of the white guys in the back didn't do the sign either!

Somebody track that guy down!

[HI-FI]

Thought we were talking about the actual award presentation.

lol spurfan is so sensitive.
that's why I mentioned the Alamodome Celebration. lol shill made a mistake.

[ChumpDumper]

that's why I mentioned the Alamodome Celebration. lol shill made a mistake.What do you mean by shill?

lol you're so sensitive

Seriously, who was the other guy who didn't do the sign?

WHO WILL NOT WEAR THE RIBBON???

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Lol some people are crazy! Come on now, if this problem really exists then Duncan would put an end to it immediately. Everyone know this always has been Duncan's team and will be until he retires.

[ohmwrecker]

I think it says, "TP is more likely to pass to Kawhi if he's open."

[exstatic]

you are better than that tbh



No he's not.

[mathbzh]

We've seen time and time again in the NBA even when a player is scoring, it doesn't always help a team.
:tu
It's not like the Spurs have won anything with Parker.

[romain.star]

you are better than that tbh

Better than what?

[romain.star]

I dont understand the Parker hate tbh



















He is a good 5th banana

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:sleep

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's actually very concerning. Parker tends to ignore Kawhi more than anyone else on the team, and also seems to be the most annoyed Spur when the media asks about how great Kawhi is.

TP usually closes games for us, but he failed miserably today missing 2 FT'S in the final minute. I think Pop is okay with the ball in his hands late, but the fact that TP seems unwilling to give it up is concerning, and I think he's personally very jealous of all the attention Kawhi in particular gets.

This is not true. In the second half of last season, Parker, a starter, would not let him defer. he would repost and otherwise force feed him the ball. Duncan was the same. its the preseason and they are polishing their game and not trying to exploit mismatches.

[KL2]

:tu
It's not like the Spurs have won anything with Parker.

Never with him ball hogging.

It's been that way for the past few years, people wonder how the Spurs magically turn on their offense, when the truth is it's simply guys sharing the ball more. The big 3 do ball hog at times, and it all starts with Parker. Dribble dribble dribble, penetrate, see shot blocker, pass out to TD/Manu (ball only touches their hands cause they only trust each other), end up with a low % jump shot, which they sometimes do make because they're so good. Meanwhile Leonard is getting ignored on a post up, the ball is moving but only touching 3 guys hands, everybody else isn't really involved. Then people wonder, why isn't SA blowing them out? It happens time and time again lol, people don't see it, even during games, practically every 3rd quarter collapse is due to this.

Can the Spurs win games like that? Yes. A championship? No, they never have. What do they look like playing this ball? Watch the Dallas series, then watch the rest of the playoffs when TP was injured. Stats always look good on paper, but they never show how a player affected the flow of the offense. Numerous examples of this ranging from Kobe to George.


The more Parker becomes a distributor the better the Spurs are, the problem is he's not very good at it and shows obvious bias against Leonard. He went what, 40 games without double digit assists this year? That's with a stacked offense and being the primary ball handler being set up for success, inexcusable.

[KL2]

Lol some people are crazy! Come on now, if this problem really exists then Duncan would put an end to it immediately. Everyone know this always has been Duncan's team and will be until he retires.

The funny thing is Duncan knows this is going on and has been involved in this.

I'll never forget the time where TP ignored Leonard on a post play and Duncan got frustrated, that's when I finally knew something was up. Leonard had prime post position for something like 10 seconds against a guard, the entire time Parker was doing his dribble BS, 0 ball movement, he was clearly ignoring Leonard.

TD saw the match up the entire time and was waiting for TP to get him the ball (I think he was even pointing out the mismatch), instead Parker passed to TD at the top of the key. Duncan then immediately passed to KY and he scored, Duncan had this angry look on his face after that like "pass him the fucking ball TP!". I wish I had the video but I forget which game it was.

[ontheraise]

you must all be right, parker is terrible. you should send letters to pop who made him a starter at19 , to all those coaches who selected him 6 times as an all stars, to all those journalist and coaches who gave him all those awards, to rc who renew is contract for 3 more years and to those 4 larry o'brien trophy he won, they are so blind an incompetent they still didn't realise after 13 years that tony is bad as fuck..
you should apply to spurs staff and bring them all that science off the game you got.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll never forget....I forgetcrofl

[PingPong]

Kawhi lovers...

:D

[TheGreatYacht]

Tony Parker - 22pts, 7reb, 7ast, 1TO, 7-12fg

Manu Turnobili - 12pts, 7reb, 4ast, 4TO, 2-7fg










Fucking Manu would rather give Andrew Goudelock the ball instead of his teammates smfh

[wildchild]

you must all be right, parker is terrible. you should send letters to pop who made him a starter at19 , to all those coaches who selected him 6 times as an all stars, to all those journalist and coaches who gave him all those awards, to rc who renew is contract for 3 more years and to those 4 larry o'brien trophy he won, they are so blind an incompetent they still didn't realise after 13 years that tony is bad as fuck..
you should apply to spurs staff and bring them all that science off the game you got.

Well, I don't interpret his post -or the thread- in this way...we all know Tony is one of the best PG in the league.

The people here don't question Parker, just question why Parker doesn't pass the ball to Leonard when he's wide open or when he has a favorable matchup. They ask if it is an intentional thing or just is a Tony's game weakness.

Some guys chose the Parker's ego option, they said it's a chemistry issue based on games observations, body language, low % assists Parker to Leonard...

Other guys -like me- think the court vision, passing skills, aren't Tony strengths.
IMO the assists/playmaker issue is one of the reasons why the media and other fans don't give Parker the credit he deserves.

Obviously, Pop plays big role in these situations, these things will keep happening until he finds ways to involve Leonard offensively more.

[wildchild]

Fucking Manu would rather give Andrew Goudelock the ball instead of his teammates smfh

I don't know what Manu or you would rather...but I certainly would have preferred that Beli played better defense on Goudelock.

[ontheraise]

leonard will be more involve in the offense when pop will decide to run more system for him, that won't necessary result in more assist from parker, on e base of the spurs system is the extra pass, tony is often antepenultimate assist , in spurs system tony's role is to initiate the play,penetrate most of the time and kick the ball out or find a big close to the basket,. i don't think tony decide not to pass the ball to kawhi that bullshit is hilarious even at 31 the man does and run the play pop decide to run.
Leonard is good, really good and i believe even really really good but thos leonard balls sucker must realize one thing is not duncan at least not yet, and the context is not the same that when duncan enter the spurs team. the spurs are run by the big 3 for more than ten years you have to respect that, and if they were realy honest they 'll realize that the kid got a fair share of the action and that the spurs game is a lot more balance and open today than during the early days of the big three.
So just wait, the time when kawhi will be the face of the franchise is 2 or 3years away max.
Just stop hating on parker or ginobili those dude gave more than 10 years to your team and bring you 4 titles , so just enjoy as much as you can until it stop cause it won't last for ever and the 10years after their retirement are not guarantee as bright as the past 10 you're not even sure you'll see such beautifull basket ever again.


take a good look at those spurs, take a good look at tim, manu, tony think well at those 15years, you 'll need those souvenirs, those moment of joy and perfection 10years from now when the spurs won't have a wining record anymore.
professional sport are cyclical the perfection and greatness won't last for ever so instead of using your energy on hating on your player use it to remember this greatness, you 'll be proud to tell to your grand children the story of this legendary team, his coach and the big three.

[ontheraise]

edit

[unforeseen]

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/307/files/2014/08/tim-duncan-manu-ginobili-tony-parker-kawhi-leonard-nba-finals-miami-heat-san-antonio-spurs.jpg

[wildchild]

Leonard is good, really good and i believe even really really good but thos leonard balls sucker must realize one thing is not duncan at least not yet, and the context is not the same that when duncan enter the spurs team. the spurs are run by the big 3 for more than ten years you have to respect that, and if they were realy honest they 'll realize that the kid got a fair share of the action and that the spurs game is a lot more balance and open today than during the early days of the big three.
So just wait, the time when kawhi will be the face of the franchise is 2 or 3years away max.
Just stop hating on parker or ginobili those dude gave more than 10 years to your team and bring you 4 titles , so just enjoy as much as you can until it stop cause it won't last for ever and the 10years after their retirement are not guarantee as bright as the past 10 you're not even sure you'll see such beautifull basket ever again.

I understand what you say but nobody who wants Kawhi offensive development is rush to bury the Big 3.

Most of fans know Tony and Kawhi will carry the team when Tim and Manu are gone. The Spurs don't have a great history luring stars FA, they aren't willing to pay tax, and people don't want to believe the team is done without Tim, so they want Parker and Leonard look comfortable playing together and be a great scoring pair in the league.
If people expect Kawhi to improve his game to all star level, get more touches, play more minutes, it doesn't mean they hate Tony/Manu or Pop, just means they think Leonard's improvement is the Spurs best chance to continue being a competitive team after Duncan Era.
Even with the Big 3 still playing, Leonard needs to increase his role because you can't develop a player in one only day, the next day after Tim/Manu retirements.

I've been a Spurs fan since I was born, it's a family thing, my dad, uncle, cousins (I registered here when Kawhi was 15 years old and never dreamed to play in SA) so I'm not Spurs fan for Leonard, but I celebrate he attracted new fans and I welcome these guys.

The analysis of one game's situation doesn't mean you don't appreciate the team's history, or stop to show your loyalty/love for the team.

Under this criteria to post, nobody could say nothing about plays, players, coaches, because the criticism would be immediately confused with hate.
I expect we can realize the difference between the two things.

[r0drig0lac]

I understand what you say but nobody who wants Kawhi offensive development is rush to bury the Big 3.

Most of fans know Tony and Kawhi will carry the team when Tim and Manu are gone. The Spurs don't have a great history luring stars FA, they aren't willing to pay tax, and people don't want to believe the team is done without Tim, so they want Parker and Leonard look comfortable playing together and be a great scoring pair in the league.
If people expect Kawhi to improve his game to all star level, get more touches, play more minutes, it doesn't mean they hate Tony/Manu or Pop, just means they think Leonard's improvement is the Spurs best chance to continue being a competitive team after Duncan Era.
Even with the Big 3 still playing, Leonard needs to increase his role because you can't develop a player in one only day, the next day after Tim/Manu retirements.

I've been a Spurs fan since I was born, it's a family thing, my dad, uncle, cousins (I registered here when Kawhi was 15 years old and never dreamed to play in SA) so I'm not Spurs fan for Leonard, but I celebrate he attracted new fans and I welcome these guys.

The analysis of one game's situation doesn't mean you don't appreciate the team's history, or stop to show your loyalty/love for the team.

Under this criteria to post, nobody could say nothing about plays, players, coaches, because the criticism would be immediately confused with hate.
I expect we can realize the difference between the two things.

great post

[ontheraise]

I understand what you say but nobody who wants Kawhi offensive development is rush to bury the Big 3.

Most of fans know Tony and Kawhi will carry the team when Tim and Manu are gone. The Spurs don't have a great history luring stars FA, they aren't willing to pay tax, and people don't want to believe the team is done without Tim, so they want Parker and Leonard look comfortable playing together and be a great scoring pair in the league.
If people expect Kawhi to improve his game to all star level, get more touches, play more minutes, it doesn't mean they hate Tony/Manu or Pop, just means they think Leonard's improvement is the Spurs best chance to continue being a competitive team after Duncan Era.
Even with the Big 3 still playing, Leonard needs to increase his role because you can't develop a player in one only day, the next day after Tim/Manu retirements.

I've been a Spurs fan since I was born, it's a family thing, my dad, uncle, cousins (I registered here when Kawhi was 15 years old and never dreamed to play in SA) so I'm not Spurs fan for Leonard, but I celebrate he attracted new fans and I welcome these guys.

The analysis of one game's situation doesn't mean you don't appreciate the team's history, or stop to show your loyalty/love for the team.

Under this criteria to post, nobody could say nothing about plays, players, coaches, because the criticism would be immediately confused with hate.
I expect we can realize the difference between the two things.

i completly agree with that, i don't say you can't make critics on spurs.
i just don't get the point on saying parker doesn't like kawhi, that he makes sure kawhi don't get the ball on purpose cause is jealous. i just don't understand that.
i was just sayin the realationship parker-kawhi will grow with pop designing more plays for kawhi.
during parker debut all the play run by SA were going through duncan so basicaly tony was almost exclusively giving the ball to tim, does that means parker hated the 3 other player on the floor.