Woj: Kawhi Wants Max Contract Extension; No Progress Made in Talks With Spurs

[BatManu20]

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As Kawhi Leonard (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4896/) holds firm on his desire for a maximum contract, extension talks with the San Antonio Spurs (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/sas/) have failed to gather traction despite a looming Friday deadline, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Leonard, the 2014 NBA Finals Most Valuable Player, would become a restricted free agent in July without an extension agreement by midnight Oct. 31 – the deadline for eligible extensions for the NBA's draft class of 2011.

Spurs president and general manager R.C. Buford and agent Brian Elfus have had several discussions in recent weeks, but no progress has been made, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Leonard, 23, is considered one of the NBA's rising young stars, and multiple league executives told Yahoo Sports he'll command a max offer sheet on the market next summer. The Spurs would assuredly match a sheet and retain Leonard, but there remains the risk of Leonard signing a similar offer sheet to Dallas Mavericks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/dal/) forward Chandler Parsons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4920/).

Parsons signed a three-year, $46 million offer sheet that included a player option on the third year. This way, Leonard could become an unrestricted free agent and potentially leave the Spurs in 2017.

San Antonio could sign Leonard to a five-year, $90 million-plus extension now, if the Spurs were willing to make him their designated player. San Antonio could also negotiate a four-year deal at the maximum contract level – or below – before the Friday deadline. As a restricted free agent next summer, the Spurs could also sign Leonard to a five-year extension at or below the maximum contract level.

Leonard has missed the preseason with an eye infection and is unlikely to be in the lineup on Tuesday for the Spurs opening night game against Dallas.

Leonard averaged 12.8 points, 6.2 rebounds, two assists and 1.7 steals a game in 29 minutes in the 2013-14 season. He averaged 14.3 points in the playoffs on the Spurs' way to the NBA title and a Finals MVP performance.

[BatManu20]

:lol Lakers fans on Twitter getting excited about the Lakers possibly luring him to LA

[Russo21]

No hate on Kawhi but if they give him the max and he becomes our best and most expensive player (post Duncan era) we'll be fighting to make the playoffs. Take a discount Kawhi you don't need/deserve a Max contract.

[Richie]

No hate on Kawhi but if they give him the max and once Ginobili and Duncan leave and he is our best and most expensive player, we'll be fighting to make the playoffs. Take a discount Kawhi you don't need/deserve a Max contract.

With the direction the cap is going, he's definitely going to be worth the 2015 max in 2017 and beyond.

[Russo21]

Yes but Duncan, Parker and Ginobili were all worth the max in their primes. How many max contracts did those guys sign combined?

[itzsoweezee]

In this league, he's definitely a max level player. Do the Spurs save money if they sign him now rather than next summer? The Spurs are simply not going to let him walk. San Antonio is not going to be luring any big name free agents. So I don't see the upside of not signing just to retain cap money that they won't be able to use.

[Richie]

Yes but Duncan, Parker and Ginobili were all worth the max in their primes. How many max contracts did those guys sign combined?

Kawhi earning $20m when the cap is $92m+ would eat less of the cap than Manu did when he was earning $14m and the cap was $58m a few years ago. It's actually about equivalent to Parker earning $12.5m from 09-14.

A max at 2015 money is a discount come 2017 and beyond.

[Russo21]

Thought the cap was something like 63 million this year? What's it going up to in future seasons?

[hyhy]

i like leonard, but 12.8ppg and 6.2rpg doesnt deserve a max, especially a fourth option.
Until he consistently plays like his final few games.

[KL2]

Wouldn't be surprised if he bolts to LA, it's near his home town and he grew up watching Kobe-Shaq, SA will be in rebuild mode.

[ElNono]

The Spurs don't have to pay right now... they can wait another season, take a better look at Kawhi's progression and eventually match anything thrown at him when he's a RFA if they want to keep him.

Then again, the Spurs can't stop saying he's the future of the franchise, so now it's time to show him the money.

[Hoops Czar]

The Spurs don't have to pay right now... they can wait another season, take a better look at Kawhi's progression and eventually match anything thrown at him when he's a RFA if they want to keep him.

Then again, the Spurs can't stop saying he's the future of the franchise, so now it's time to show him the money.

It's the time to show him the money when he becomes consistent on both ends of the floor. as of this moment, he's only shown glimpses of his overall potential. purs would only be foolish to offer him the max until he proves himself.

[KL2]

i like leonard, but 12.8ppg and 6.2rpg doesnt deserve a max, especially a fourth option.
Until he consistently plays like his final few games.

Those stats are misleading though. He rested the entire off season to heal his knee, he came back and was really off. But when he came back from his broken hand he came back strong, leading SA on that 18 or 19 game winning streak. His offense often coming early, he did after all only play just 29 MPG this year. He brought the intensity on both sides of the ball early, by halftime most games were already over, no need to play him by then. I don't think a single starter went over 30 MPG this year.

If the Spurs are truly serious about him being the 1st option he needs better spacing out there or something, Splitter/TD may not workout. It takes away too many facets of Leonard's game, rebounding, put backs, floaters, post ups, dunks, etc. really high % shots, his biggest strengths. The majority of his offense comes off what he creates for himself on defense and what the defense gives him. With proper spacing and consistent play calling, I have no doubt Leonard will produce as he did in the Finals with Diaw starting next to TD.

Furthermore getting a SF that can play defense as well as he can on LBJ/KD is rare, but getting one as offensively gifted as him is even rarer. You need that sort of defender, especially considering LBJ/KD are almost always going to be in some sort of Finals, whether it's the NBA Finals or the WCF, they're the two best scorers in the league.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to relive those years of old man Finley, Udoka, Bogans, RJ, etc. whoever the hell they tried out at that position (ugh bad memories). Took SA a long ass time to get a SF, they're not exactly a top destination for FA's (something else to consider), couldn't even get scrubs like J-Howard to sign a contract for years.

[Ice009]

If it's going to help the Spurs sign another good player next year and also give Kawhi the max, I'd wait. If it makes no difference to next year's plans, then they may as well do it now because he's going to get that from some other team anyway. If they can get a good free agent next off-season to add to the team, they might be able to convince him to take less so that they can sign that player.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs don't have to pay right now... they can wait another season, take a better look at Kawhi's progression and eventually match anything thrown at him when he's a RFA if they want to keep him.

Then again, the Spurs can't stop saying he's the future of the franchise, so now it's time to show him the money.
the worry is if he just signs a 1 year tender and becomes UFA

[BatManu20]

He's only 23. Sign him now and save some cash.

[polandprzem]

He is not worth max contract and everybody knows this

What the heck? He is a spurs so calm down Leo.

[Richie]

the worry is if he just signs a 1 year tender and becomes UFA

There's no way that happens, he'd be giving up $10m+ in year one alone, not to mention the risk of injury. If he really gets annoyed and wants to leave, he'd likely sign a Parsons-like deal, 2 years with a third year as player option.

[Richie]

Thought the cap was something like 63 million this year? What's it going up to in future seasons?

With the new TV deal the cap is likely to go over $90m from 2017 and beyond.

[Malik Hairston]

Of course he's going to ask for the max when a glorified 3&D guy like Klay Thompson is going to get it:lol..

Let alone an average player like Gordon Hayward, tbh..

[Mugen]

Pay the kid. Scrubs like Jodie Meeks got paid this summer. Parsons is getting 15mil/year. Of course, the Finals MVP is worth the max.

[Ice009]

The market is going to say he's worth the max, so all of you guys saying that he's not....WAKE THE FUCK UP.

Not everyone will take discounts just because the Spurs ask them to.

[Juggity]

anyone who thinks he won't get offered the max (either by the spurs or some other team) is delusional. The only question is whether he's willing to take slightly less than that in order to play on a better spurs team with more money to spend on other stars (post-manu and TD), which is probably what the spurs are trying to negotiate. It's a tenuous rope to walk — Harden chose slightly more money in Houston instead of slightly less on a better team in OKC. Intuition points to Kawhi staying with the spurs unless they grievously offend him or something, and ultimately if Kawhi wants the max and isn't willing to go any lower, the spurs will pay him. He's worth it.

[Baam]

While there's doubt that Kawhi can be a max player on a contender I think the addition of Anderson makes it even more important that he stays in SA. Anderson is gonna need an elite defender as his sidekick, imagine 2 6"8 guys playing the PnR...

And a great point was made earlier in this thread, when you call someone the face of the franchise in every other interview you're pretty much driving yourself in a corner, not the kid's fault if he believes it...

[mkurts]

So ... rather than taking a discount the Spurs way, and play with good players, he would rather take the max and play for a shit team like Joe Johnson did with the Hawks before. I hope this is not true as the Spurs were the ones who made him into what he is today. The next Kevin Love ?

[outmap]

I'd be very happy if he'd sign a contract similar to Parker at an average of 14M a year. A 5 year 70M would really make the team competitive in signing other free agents.

[Uriel]

One crucial distinction people seem to be missing is the max contract and the max extension. Max contracts are in the $20M/yr range, and are typically awarded to franchise players. Max extensions, like the Kawhi is asking for, are typically less than that, and their value is calculated based on the player's previous year's salary. For instance, Tony Parker received a max extension this offseason, yet he'll only be making $13M/yr.

[scanry]

$75-80 mil/5 yrs would be ideal for the Spurs, but if he's adamant the Spurs should cough up $90 mil/5yrs. Kawhi has been unbelievable these past 3 seasons tbh. He's the reason the Spurs became title favorites overnight.

The Lakers will lead the Come Home campaign and you never know he may bolt.

[scanry]

One crucial distinction people seem to be missing is the max contract and the max extension. Max contracts are in the $20M/yr range, and are typically awarded to franchise players. Max extensions, like the Kawhi is asking for, are typically less than that, and their value is calculated based on the player's previous year's salary. For instance, Tony Parker received a max extension this offseason, yet he'll only be making $13M/yr.

That's cause Tony never signed a Max till date. I think Tim only signed the Max once (in 2000). If Tim had actually signed a Max extension in 2007 & 2012, he'd probably be making more than what Kobe did last season.

[Tuddy]

His agent will want the max as badly as him. His only other client are fringe NBA players so he'll be chasing his first pay day.

[100%duncan]

His play is not yet max caliber but if scrubs like parsons and hayward are paid that much then why would kawhi take less??? The market dictates the player's worth, not his play.

[mudyez]

pay this man! he can take a discount when he is on his second deal (not counting the rookie deal).

[CGD]

Not surprising. KL is getting the max now or next summer, but make no mistake barring an injury or some goodwill on KL's side, he's getting it. It's the current state of the market, so Forget notions of salary pegged to talent level. Like any good negotiator RC is probing for any softness from the otherside.

The spurs may be OK with matching a shorter RfA Chandler Parson type deal, as referenced by WOJ. Sure there is a risk of losing KL in the future, but The spurs are going to be in suck mode by 2017. From Leonard's point of view, again barring injury as well as any lockout shenanigans, it's also not a bad outcome. By that point you'd expect teams can pay a top flight player more given the cap projections.

Lastly, by 2017 TP will probably join the rest of the big three in retirement, so who knows where the spurs will be in the rebuild/reload process. If KL doesn't take the leap into the top 10 nba players, do you really want a quasi-star earning the max as you try to rebuild?

[wildchild]

Lastly, by 2017 TP will probably join the rest of the big three in retirement, so who knows where the spurs will be in the rebuild/reload process. If KL doesn't take the leap into the top 10 nba players, do you really want a quasi-star earning the max as you try to rebuild?
With the new TV deal, Kawhi max 2014 contract won't be a really max next years.
The cap in 2017 will allow the Spurs rebuild and sign two great FA even if they sign the Leonard contract extension this year.

[wildchild]

There's no way that happens, he'd be giving up $10m+ in year one alone, not to mention the risk of injury. If he really gets annoyed and wants to leave, he'd likely sign a Parsons-like deal, 2 years with a third year as player option.

I'm not sure, if a player gets annoyed and wants to leave the best way for him is taking the qualifying offer and becomes UFA. If he is losing money now, he will ultimately double that money in next contract.

[benefactor]

Gonna be a lot of meltdown in this thread.:lol

Relax...they will pay him.

[exstatic]

I'm not sure, if a player gets annoyed and wants to leave the best way for him is taking the qualifying offer and becomes UFA. If he is losing money now, he will ultimately double that money in next contract.

Almost no one ever does that, and for some reason, it's usually a center. Rasho, Olowokandi, and Monroe are the only ones I remember over a decade. That's ~300 first round picks, and 3 guys.

[Old School 44]

Gonna be a lot of meltdown in this thread.:lol

Relax...they will pay him.

What if Kawhi's really not injured, and it's all an agreed upon smoke screen to cover up a hold out while both sides sit down and try to work it out?

[VBM]

Kawhi put SA over the top and got Duncan to 5 http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/what.png

Some of y'all are acting like he's Richard Jefferson status all of a sudden http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/scust.png

Besides, y'all act like some top flight FA is going to choose SA one of these years. We aren't going to lose out on LeBron or Melo if Kawhi gets a max extension...if anything, it'll keep us from overpaying some overhyped system-made player down the road.

[hooperflash]

What if Kawhi's really not injured, and it's all an agreed upon smoke screen to cover up a hold out while both sides sit down and try to work it out?

First it was 2centsworth's daughter, then it was NBA TV, and now ultimately the Spurs will offer a contract to Kawhi and will turn it down.

[Cklbmk]

One thing people are missing.

Theres talk of the cap scaling up with 2 medium jumps instead of 1 huge jump.

Kawhi signing a max contract isn't 25% of the 2014 cap, its 25% of the 2015 cap.

So say it does 15mil jump each year instead of 1 30mil jump.
that means
Kawhi gets a deal around 20-21mil a year.

No incentive to do it now unless he takes even a dollar below the max so its not based in percentages

[wildchild]

Almost no one ever does that, and for some reason, it's usually a center. Rasho, Olowokandi, and Monroe are the only ones I remember over a decade. That's ~300 first round picks, and 3 guys.
Well, the market rules change every year. If a player wants to hit the market as UFA -particularly in 2017-, we could see more players accepting qualifying offers next summer.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

$75-80 mil/5 yrs would be ideal for the Spurs, but if he's adamant the Spurs should cough up $90 mil/5yrs. Kawhi has been unbelievable these past 3 seasons tbh. He's the reason the Spurs became title favorites overnight.

The Lakers will lead the Come Home campaign and you never know he may bolt.

They can't give him that - either the max for 5 years ( around $90 mil ) or a 4-year contract.

[baseline bum]

Yes but Duncan, Parker and Ginobili were all worth the max in their primes. How many max contracts did those guys sign combined?

Duncan signed max deals. Parker and Ginobili didn't.

[baseline bum]

That's cause Tony never signed a Max till date. I think Tim only signed the Max once (in 2000). If Tim had actually signed a Max extension in 2007 & 2012, he'd probably be making more than what Kobe did last season.

Tim signed a max deal in 03 also.

[baseline bum]

Anyone who thinks Leonard is getting anything less than 4 years at max is crazy. It's a lot of money for someone who isn't a franchise player, but no way the Spurs can let him take a QO next summer. No chance the deal gets done this year, but they have to give it to him next summer. With the TV deal kicking in for 2016 it might even make financial sense to give him that fifth year since his base salary would still be based on the 2015 cap instead of the much higher 2016 cap.

[Mel_13]

Just pay the man.


Yes but Duncan, Parker and Ginobili were all worth the max in their primes. How many max contracts did those guys sign combined?

Duncan received the maximum possible salary for the first 13 years of his career.


There's no way that happens, he'd be giving up $10m+ in year one alone, not to mention the risk of injury. If he really gets annoyed and wants to leave, he'd likely sign a Parsons-like deal, 2 years with a third year as player option.

Nice to see you come around on this.

[DPG21920]

Spurs are absolutely doing the right thing by waiting. No reason to bid against themselves. With their track record of history and success and not overpaying the "others", despite how good they are, there is no difference with Kawhi.

It's very tough to do what guys like Parsons did. To turn down that extra 4th year at max level. It's an investement in yourself, but risky. Worst case, the Spurs pay him less than they would by matching a 3 year max, and have 3 years to see him "earn" that bigger, longer deal. If he does, the Spurs would be fine paying that money and I'm sure Kawhi would be more than happy to except that from the Spurs.

Hopefully what happens is Kawhi agrees to a 4 year deal with the Spurs before hitting RFA. But if not, no biggie. Those using the logic of " so and so got a big deal and they aren't as good" doesn't mean Kawhi automatically should get that. Just because other teams are foolish, doesn't mean the Spurs should be. The fact the Spurs aren't like other teams in that regard is a big reason they have sustained the success they have.

[MI21]

He will get paid. The Spurs could give him 48.5 and I wouldn't care.

[z0sa]

Spurs are gambling a bit... but I think it is long odds Kawhi goes anywhere else.

[wildchild]

...but no way the Spurs can let him take a QO next summer. No chance the deal gets done this year, but they have to give it to him next summer...

I know, this is pure speculation but play the "what if" game...
What if Leonard won't receive the max offer/4y next summer, other teams know the Spurs'll match any offer -and offers eat their cap space for three days-, so the Spurs propose a deal less than the max (just because they sign no one but two big name FA, or R.C./Pop leave the Spurs, or whatever crazy reason) why Kawhi won't take his QO and wait to 2007?

[100%duncan]

Spurs are absolutely doing the right thing by waiting. No reason to bid against themselves. With their track record of history and success and not overpaying the "others", despite how good they are, there is no difference with Kawhi.

It's very tough to do what guys like Parsons did. To turn down that extra 4th year at max level. It's an investement in yourself, but risky. Worst case, the Spurs pay him less than they would by matching a 3 year max, and have 3 years to see him "earn" that bigger, longer deal. If he does, the Spurs would be fine paying that money and I'm sure Kawhi would be more than happy to except that from the Spurs.

Hopefully what happens is Kawhi agrees to a 4 year deal with the Spurs before hitting RFA. But if not, no biggie. Those using the logic of " so and so got a big deal and they aren't as good" doesn't mean Kawhi automatically should get that. Just because other teams are foolish, doesn't mean the Spurs should be. The fact the Spurs aren't like other teams in that regard is a big reason they have sustained the success they have.

But the market dictates the player's worth even if he's not supposed to get paid that much. The Spurs have been lucky with the big 3 but don't act like they've made other "superstars" (past spurs players) take less because there have been no superstars other than the big 3 in the era of TD so you are overrating the "superstars always take less for the spurs" card since the truth is that the organization have only been saving bucks for role players before but they have not yet faced a situation like the situation at hand right now with Kawhi, again with the exception of the big 3.

[Russ]

:lol Lakers fans on Twitter getting excited about the Lakers possibly luring him to LA

I've been thinking about this for over a year and I still haven't heard word one about it here in LA.

It's quiet, too quiet.

It makes way too much sense -- Kawhi as a Laker.

The Lakers are desperate and they'll offer the max (and every other inducement they can think of).

[Mel_13]

I know, this is pure speculation but play the "what if" game...
What if Leonard won't receive the max offer/4y next summer, other teams know the Spurs'll match any offer -and offers eat their cap space for three days-, so the Spurs propose a deal less than the max (just because they sign no one but two big name FA, or R.C./Pop leave the Spurs, or whatever crazy reason) why Kawhi won't take his QO and wait to 2007?

Because some team will be willing to give him a three year deal with a player option for year three. That gets him two years at the max and makes him an unrestricted FA in the summer of 2017. No reason to take the QO just to get to free agency one year earlier. The Parsons scenario is the risk that the Spurs assume by not reaching an extension agreement this summer.

[wildchild]

Worst case, the Spurs pay him less than they would by matching a 3 year max, and have 3 years to see him "earn" that bigger, longer deal. If he does, the Spurs would be fine paying that money and I'm sure Kawhi would be more than happy to except that from the Spurs.
I don't know why he would be interested in staying in San Antonio rebuild mode without Pop/Tim/Manu after those three years if he can sign with a contender team for the same or more money in 2018.

[Mel_13]

But the market dictates the player's worth even if he's not supposed to get paid that much. The Spurs have been lucky with the big 3 but don't act like they've made other "superstars" (past spurs players) take less because there have been no superstars other than the big 3 in the era of TD so you are overrating the "superstars always take less for the spurs" card since the truth is that the organization have only been saving bucks for role players before but they have not yet faced a situation like the situation at hand right now with Kawhi, again with the exception of the big 3.

+1

The situations of Tony and Manu in 2004 are really not comparable to Kawhi in 2014. And remember that Tony fought for every penny he got in the extension he signed that summer.

[wildchild]

Because some team will be willing to give him a three year deal with a player option for year three.
Just for the record, I said what if Leonard won't receive that offer...

[Mel_13]

Just for the record, I said what if Leonard won't receive that offer...

Actually you said:


I know, this is pure speculation but play the "what if" game...
What if Leonard won't receive the max offer/4y next summer, other teams know the Spurs'll match any offer -and offers eat their cap space for three days-, so the Spurs propose a deal less than the max (just because they sign no one but two big name FA, or R.C./Pop leave the Spurs, or whatever crazy reason) why Kawhi won't take his QO and wait to 2007?

The Parsons deal was 2 yrs plus a player option for a third.

[Spursfanfromafar]

With the salary cap set to grow quite soon.. giving up the max for Leonard doesn't seem such a bad idea for the Spurs.

[wildchild]

Actually you said:
Sorry, you're right.
I mean whatever offer, after all the teams know the Spurs will match any offer.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Just pay the man.



Duncan received the maximum possible salary for the first 13 years of his career.



Nice to see you come around on this.

Mel, what financial advantage is there to signing him to the extension? I am not sure I've heard of any. At the poker table, you know what they say about "scared money".

Leonard =\= Tim Duncan. I am not sure he's even a Manu Ginobili. He's more than we expected, but I don't know that he's a franchise player. Pop has flattered him, to be sure. But, do you build around him like a Robinson, or a Duncan? I am glad they are not negotiating out of fear of losing him next year. He is a great player, but if we are going to be in rebuilding mode, I don't want to be hamstrung by him, either. I am sure they will pay him, but on their schedule. If the extension screws up their rebuilding plans, I totally understand their hesitance.

Make him earn his walking papers this year by carrying us to 6. If he does, and out of spite wants to spurn us next year by walking, so be it. If he can't make the expected leap this year, then all the better we didn't commit.

Lastly:

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/14937350/quadriceps-tendonitis-physioadvisor.htm

I'm not sure that's a thing of the past, and won't be surprised to see it get worse. I don't think we'll be seeing him play the kind of minutes that Tim had as a youngster. I think Pop may always have to monitor his minutes like he has done with Tim as an old man. Except, well, he's a kid. You would like to be able to run him out there 40 minutes a game like Parker did/does sometimes. I just don't feel we'll be able to do that with him without him breaking down, but who knows. I'm probably very wrong.

[scanry]

Tim signed a max deal in 03 also.

You're right. Tim signed a $122 mil/7 yr contract in 03.

[Budkin]

The Spurs don't have to pay right now... they can wait another season, take a better look at Kawhi's progression and eventually match anything thrown at him when he's a RFA if they want to keep him.

Then again, the Spurs can't stop saying he's the future of the franchise, so now it's time to show him the money.

This. They need to not fuck around and take care of Kawhi.

[Mel_13]

Mel, what financial advantage is there to signing him to the extension?

First, I wasn't comparing him to Duncan, merely replying a posted comment.

As to your question. There is no financial advantage, at least for the first three years of his new deal, for the Spurs to sign him to an extension this summer rather than a new contract next summer. There are, as has been discussed in many previous threads on this subject, significant advantages for the team to wait until next summer. My point, in those threads and this one, is that waiting comes with risks. Many choose to dismiss those risks, but I believe that they're real and that the Spurs would be well served to avoid those risks. I said so long before the details of the new TV deal were known, and I feel even more strongly now that we know the actual numbers.

[Mel_13]

Sorry, you're right.
I mean whatever offer, after all the teams know the Spurs will match any offer.

Everyone believed that Houston would match any offer for Parsons. It just takes one team, the Lakers come to mind, that's willing to tie up their cap space for 72 hours.

[skut_farkus]

Kawhi getting max? :lmao

[DPG21920]

+1

The situations of Tony and Manu in 2004 are really not comparable to Kawhi in 2014. And remember that Tony fought for every penny he got in the extension he signed that summer.

The biggest difference is that Kawhi is no where as close, IMO, to Tim/Manu/TP from a "centerpiece" perspective. There is infinitely more risk with him than those 3. That's where I don't get people saying its automatic. Especially when the Spurs don't have to bid against themselves.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

First, I wasn't comparing him to Duncan, merely replying a posted comment.

As to your question. There is no financial advantage, at least for the first three years of his new deal, for the Spurs to sign him to an extension this summer rather than a new contract next summer. There are, as has been discussed in many previous threads on this subject, significant advantages for the team to wait until next summer. My point, in those threads and this one, is that waiting comes with risks. Many choose to dismiss those risks, but I believe that they're real and that the Spurs would be well served to avoid those risks. I said so long before the details of the new TV deal were known, and I feel even more strongly now that we know the actual numbers.

Perhaps the stumbling block could be the still undecided smoothing mechanism of the salary cap raise. If they decide to do so, which is likely, then Kawhi's max extension would be based on the 2015 max ( right? ) and thus - bigger than the expected 5 years/90 mil, which would also make it quite significant even in the new post-TV deal salary cap world for a player who's not projected as a franchise type even by his greatest admirers.

[Darius McCrary]

We're gonna lose him.

[100%duncan]

The biggest difference is that Kawhi is no where as close, IMO, to Tim/Manu/TP from a "centerpiece" perspective. There is infinitely more risk with him than those 3. That's where I don't get people saying its automatic. Especially when the Spurs don't have to bid against themselves.

Because those three had each other, while Kawhi is already proclaimed as the future of the franchise. The pressure in signing Tony or Manu are nowhere close to reclaiming and making sure Kawhi stays.

[Mel_13]

Perhaps the stumbling block could be the still undecided smoothing mechanism of the salary cap raise. If they decide to do so, which is likely, then Kawhi's max extension would be based on the 2015 max ( right? ) and thus - bigger than the expected 5 years/90 mil, which would also make it quite significant even in the new post-TV deal salary cap world for a player who's not projected as a franchise type even by his greatest admirers.

Any extension Kawhi gets this summer will be based on the 2015 cap, regardless of any smoothing agreement. While it's true that we don't know what the 2015 numbers will be, they will certainly be less than they will be in 2017 or 2018

[DPG21920]

Because those three had each other, while Kawhi is already proclaimed as the future of the franchise. The pressure in signing Tony or Manu are nowhere close to reclaiming and making sure Kawhi stays.

There is absolutely 0 pressure to make sure Kawhi stays. At worst, they have him this year and he signs a QO (not happening). So real worst case scenario he signs a Parsons deal next year and the Spurs match so they have him this year, plus 2 more years and then can easily sign him later too if he earns it.

[Mel_13]

The biggest difference is that Kawhi is no where as close, IMO, to Tim/Manu/TP from a "centerpiece" perspective. There is infinitely more risk with him than those 3. That's where I don't get people saying its automatic. Especially when the Spurs don't have to bid against themselves.

Kawhi is nowhere close to any previous version of Duncan, but 2014 Kawhi compares quite favorably IMO, to 2004 Tony and 2004 Manu when those two were negotiating their first post-rookie deals.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs don't have to pay right now... they can wait another season, take a better look at Kawhi's progression and eventually match anything thrown at him when he's a RFA if they want to keep him.

Then again, the Spurs can't stop saying he's the future of the franchise, so now it's time to show him the money.
don't expect anything to get done. our FO is just a bunch of gutless worms

[wildchild]

Make him earn his walking papers this year by carrying us to 6. If he does, and out of spite wants to spurn us next year by walking, so be it.

If a team sign a player extension contract is not only because they want locking him up for the longest possible length of time, they want to make him feel comfortable with the franchise, keep him happy/motivated, they want him to focus only on his game and winning.
It makes sense to lose the best SF in the league after Lebron/KD/Melo ...

[dabom]

We are probably making a bigger deal about this than Kawhi or the Spurs FO.

[Cry Havoc]

I want to see dude perform a little more consistently before making him a max guy.

He might be 38, but Tim Duncan was better in the playoffs last year than Kawhi, Leonard just had a better Finals.

[wildchild]

For the guys who say he doesn't worth the max, just rembember that in last 10 years, only 20 first round picks have produced as many win shares as Leonard through three seasons, when they became eligible for contract extensions.
15 of those 20 have received max deals, 14 by extension.
Only Brook Lopez had to wait until FA, and Greg Monroe.

[Blizzardwizard]

Kawhi sure as hell ain't worth the max yet. But if Klay Thompson is potentially worth a max contract then I guess anyone is.

[dabom]

Kawhi sure as hell ain't worth the max yet. But if Klay Thompson is potentially worth a max contract then I guess anyone is.

Please stop.

[dabom]

Can someone post the lowest 4 year extension Kawhi can get?

[Russ]

Two reasons I wanted Tim to get Finals MVP last summer:

1. TD would be only player to win it in three different decades; and

2. This.

[SupremeGuy]

Kawhi isn't worth the max, but since this past summer shows that teams are throwing around max contracts at almost every young start with potential, then we might as well come to the realization that we're going to have to pay him the max; maybe not this year, but definitely next year. Kawhi is doing the smart thing, tbh. The Spurs just won the championship and he got a finals MVP. He's trying to strike while the iron is hot.

[InRareForm]

lol people talking like its their wallet

[scanry]

Two reasons I wanted Tim to get Finals MVP last summer:

1. TD would be only player to win it in three different decades; and

2. This.

Can't blame Kawhi's agent for cashing in tbh. When players like Thomson, Gordon & Parsons are getting the max, his agent wants nothing else.

I just hope Kawhi plays just as hard this season if they don't come to an understanding.

[ElNono]

Can't just sit back and wait until next year. There will be many teams giving him the 4 year max. Spurs only chance to sign him for less is 6 days.


the worry is if he just signs a 1 year tender and becomes UFA

There's not going to be a 'signing him for less', I don't think. He knows he's going to get a max offer next summer. The Spurs have a full year to asses the situation and either match or let him walk.

All I'm saying is, if you're calling him the "future of the franchise", then now it's the time to put up.

[ElNono]

Those stats are misleading though. He rested the entire off season to heal his knee, he came back and was really off. But when he came back from his broken hand he came back strong, leading SA on that 18 or 19 game winning streak.

This is an underrated concern, tbh... he has missed an average of 16 games per season with various injuries every year he's been here.

[wildchild]

:lol Lakers fans on Twitter getting excited about the Lakers possibly luring him to LA
Trending right now...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B092IIpCAAAxFiX.png

[dabom]

:lol at people thinking Kawhi ain't the real deal.

[wildchild]

This is an underrated concern, tbh... he has missed an average of 16 games per season with various injuries every year he's been here.
Maybe isn't an average of 16 games per season.
Sorry but I don't remember, he played three seasons, he missed games for tendonitis and hand broken last season. Two injuries, what was his injury in the other season?

[ElNono]

Maybe isn't an average of 16 games per season.
Sorry but I don't remember, he played three seasons, he missed games for tendonitis and last season hand broken. Two injuries, what was his injury in the other season?

IIRC, the other one was when he got hurt with a loose nail in his knee.

[Raven]

The problem with giving kawhi the max, is it makes greens market a lot bigger. There is really not much difference between the two.

[timtonymanu]

Two reasons I wanted Tim to get Finals MVP last summer:

1. TD would be only player to win it in three different decades; and

2. This.

He's been referred to as the future of the franchise many times by Pop. Finals MVP or not, he's gonna get paid big.

[RD2191]

It's risky. I'd take it though. Do some posters even watch the Spurs? We won't see Kawhi average all star numbers while Duncan and Manu are still here. That is just not how the team is constructed. Is he capable? Not sure. But unless Pop changes the system it's going to take a good while to find out. I've said many times before though that I wouldn't be surprised if he went back to Cali.

[timtonymanu]

:lol Spurs fans expecting Kawhi to take a paycut.

They aren't reeling in any superstar as much as we want to believe.

[DPG21920]

The reality is that while there is risk in waiting, IMO the risk of him not living up to a max offer is greater. When you combine some injury risk, with level of play, I firmly believe the risk of paying him too much is greater than anything else. While there is risk of him taking a QO (very low risk) and of him doing a Parson's (good chance), the Spurs have time and can evaluate his level.

Basically, to me, the risk of overpaying him is higher and the risk of losing him or having to pay him more if he performs well during his Parson's deal is much, much less. Is it a risk? Sure, but no reason to over pay when you hold most of the leverage (RFA and Time).

[Dre_7]

Pay the man!

[wildchild]

IIRC, the other one was when he got hurt with a loose nail in his knee.
Well, you can't call a player is injury prone for a nail on the floor -on 76ers court- gashed his knee...

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi wants something fair and more security (especially since he's had some injuries) he should take a 4 year deal at less than max. If he wants to bet on himself, he should wait until this off season and do a Parsons deal. Either way the Spurs win and the risk is low.

I highly doubt Kawhi will have sour grapes if he somehow proves over the next 3 years he's worth a max deal since the Spurs will be able to pay that then. No need to pay it now when you have questions about performance and don't have to compete with anyone who can offer more than 4 years (with less raises than the Spurs can offer).

[Clipper Nation]

Sorry Spurfan, but Ballmer will be opening up his wallet :downspin:

[024]

5 yr / $90 million is $18 million per year. That is a crap load of money. Neither Parker nor Manu has ever earned that much money per year. I guess there will be no patented Spurs discount. It's probably also his agent convincing him he's worth that much. Leonard's agent did trot him out to the public after the finals and try to put his name out there as much as possible. The agent planned this throughout the summer and tried to hype up Leonard's name.

Is Leonard worth $18 million a year? Probably not.. true he played 3 spectacular games in the finals but Leonard is a weaker finals MVP like Billups and Parker. The Spurs won through teamwork but Leonard was definitely the best Spurs on the floor. But with the new CBA, $18 million a year might be the new $14 million a year so it might be worth it. Either way, the Spurs should wait and see how this season plays out. If Leonard makes it to the all star game and/or all NBA team, then the Spurs should have no problem giving Leonard the max. If Leonard doesn't improve, the Spurs can just match whatever in the offseason.

[wildchild]

The problem with giving kawhi the max, is it makes greens market a lot bigger. There is really not much difference between the two.

Yeah...but maybe that's not the only problem.
Confusing an amazing 3D guy with an elite two-way player could be a real issue, too.

[ElNono]

Well, you can't call a player is injury prone for a nail on the floor -on 76ers court- gashed his knee...

I didn't call him injury prone... just something that can be a concern. When a team is looking to hand out a max deal, everything gets taken into account, especially for such a young player.

[hyhy]

should have given manu the finals mvp

[wildchild]

I didn't call him injury prone... just something that can be a concern. When a team is looking to hand out a max deal, everything gets taken into account, especially for such a young player.
But you can't worry for a nail on court...

[TheGreatYacht]

"Take a discount Kawhi, it's the Spurs way"

... Just look what that did to Parker, these grumpy ass dudes blame everything on him. Even though he never got the Max contract once in his career.

GET PAID KAWHI, DONT LISTEN TO THESE HOMERS

[Cry Havoc]

There's not going to be a 'signing him for less', I don't think. He knows he's going to get a max offer next summer. The Spurs have a full year to asses the situation and either match or let him walk.

All I'm saying is, if you're calling him the "future of the franchise", then now it's the time to put up.

What if the regular season starts and he's still averaging 12 and 6. I'm as big a proponent of defense as anyone on this forum, but is a 12 and 6 guy a max deal player?

[TheGreatYacht]

should have given manu the finals mvp
In 2013, yes.

[RD2191]

How the fuck is Kawhi going to improve? He does what he can with the role and touches he is given. Some people are fucking retarded. Should Pop run the offense through Kawhi? Is that what you all want to see?

[wildchild]

GET PAID KAWHI, DONT LISTEN TO THESE HOMERS
Trust me, they -R.C.-Kawhi- don't read this forum/ST.

[ElNono]

But you can't worry for a nail on court...

I don't worry about anything. But the Spurs will question whether he's too fragile, whether that tendonitis could be a concern long term (ie: will it require surgery at some point?). It's stuff teams will try to use as leverage when you're talking about a max deal.

[TheGreatYacht]

Trust me, they don't read this forum/ST.
So that wasn't Timmy who posted on here that one time? :(

[ElNono]

What if the regular season starts and he's still averaging 12 and 6. I'm as big a proponent of defense as anyone on this forum, but is a 12 and 6 guy a max deal player?

I think the Spurs are a franchise that will look past raw stats, and look into on-off metrics, the kind of person they have, etc. But regardless, Kawhi's value is driven by the market. If a team thinks 12 and 6 warrants a max deal, then that's his value.

The Spurs can choose to agree with that or not.

[wildchild]

I don't worry about anything. But the Spurs will question whether he's too fragile, whether that tendonitis could be a concern long term (ie: will it require surgery at some point?). It's stuff teams will try to use as leverage when you're talking about a max deal.

Tendonitis could be a concern -last season he seems/was completely recovered from that injury- but not the games he missed for a nail on the court...so I'm just saying that 16 missed games for season isn't a real number.

[Cry Havoc]

I think the Spurs are a franchise that will look past raw stats, and look into on-off metrics, the kind of person they have, etc. But regardless, Kawhi's value is driven by the market. If a team thinks 12 and 6 warrants a max deal, then that's his value.

The Spurs can choose to agree with that or not.

It'll be interesting to see (if his numbers don't go up drastically, which obviously might happen) if teams are as high on Kawhi as they are now, fresh off his FMVP performance.

[baseline bum]

The biggest difference is that Kawhi is no where as close, IMO, to Tim/Manu/TP from a "centerpiece" perspective. There is infinitely more risk with him than those 3. That's where I don't get people saying its automatic. Especially when the Spurs don't have to bid against themselves.

Kawhi's obviously not Duncan, but I think he's right there with what Ginobili and Parker were in their early to mid 20s. He's a really strong two way player who can shoot the jumper, go to the post, and finish in transition. I think that translates more to maybe a $13-$14 million a season player instead of an $18 million a season guy, but I could swallow the max extension knowing there is about to be a huge inflation in player contracts from the new TV deal.

[EVAY]

Duncan received the maximum possible salary for the first 13 years of his career.



.

This. The team keeps saying he is the future of the franchise. Tim was the franchise and got the max. Kawhi's agent will tell him to expect no less. Tony and Manu never got max contracts - as someone else pointed out - max extensions are based on percentage increases over prior contract - not absolute money.

This will be interesting to see because not only will Kawhi be the only one left from this terrific team, he will be playing for a coach he doesn't yet know. Money is about the only certain thing the guy can have at this point.

[TheGreatYacht]

2010: Swept by the Suns
2011: Lose to an 8th seed as the 1st seed

*trade for Kawhi*

2012: get happy. Lose in the WCF after a 20 game win streak
2013: SA have #5 on the grasp, but lose to the Heat thanks to unfortunate events (Kawhi in Game 6. 22pts, 11reb) (Kawhi in Game 7. 19pts, 16reb)
2014: Spurs rape the Heatles, Kawhi wins Finals MVP (Games 3, 4, & 5 averages. 23.7ppg, 9.3rpg, 2spg, 68.6fg%, 53.8 3P%)

See a pattern?

[ElNono]

Tendonitis could be a concern -last season he seems/was completely recovered from that injury- but not the games he missed for a nail on the court...so I'm just saying that 16 missed games for season isn't a real number.

The real, hard number is that he's never played over 66 games in a regular season. That's less than Duncan in the last 3 seasons (rest included). Granted, some of that has been rest for him too. Now, you can say he's been unlucky for 3 years, and some of those were freak injuries, but I think any team (not just the Spurs) will take a hard look at that before putting the money on the table, or at least, in the case of the Spurs, to use it as leverage.

[ElNono]

FWIW, I' would be much more at peace with Kawhi getting the max, than when we gave RJ that albatross extension, tbh...

[ElNono]

Plus the Spurs can't be too choosy... Big name FA's coming this way are rare, and once the big 3 is no more, it's going to be an even more difficult pull, IMO.

[baseline bum]

The real, hard number is that he's never played over 66 games in a regular season. That's less than Duncan in the last 3 seasons (rest included). Granted, some of that has been rest for him too. Now, you can say he's been unlucky for 3 years, and some of those were freak injuries, but I think any team (not just the Spurs) will take a hard look at that before putting the money on the table, or at least, in the case of the Spurs, to use it as leverage.

It's not like we're talking about Eric Bledsoe though.

[ElNono]

It's not like we're talking about Eric Bledsoe though.

Not at all. Plus Bledsoe didn't have a FMVP to throw into the conversation.

[RD2191]

Has Chinook weighed in yet? :lol

[BatManu20]

I've been thinking about this for over a year and I still haven't heard word one about it here in LA.

It's quiet, too quiet.

It makes way too much sense -- Kawhi as a Laker.

The Lakers are desperate and they'll offer the max (and every other inducement they can think of).

I live in LA also and you're right, it does make a lot of sense but I don't see any way the Spurs let him go. They'll match any offer, even if they have to break the bank imo.

[BatManu20]

Lakers fans on Twitter claiming Westbrook and Kawhi will both be Lakers next year after KD bolts for DC. Then they'll sign Klay Thompson too :lol

[moisaenz]

Lakers fans on Twitter claiming Westbrook and Kawhi will both be Lakers next year after KD bolts for DC.

Like if Kawhi would play with westbrook, if he complains he does not get the ball from parker, imagine him complaining about westbrook.

[look_at_g_shred]

Like if Kawhi would play with westbrook, if he complains he does not get the ball from parker, imagine him complaining about westbrook.
Lol

[look_at_g_shred]

This is as much drama you'll hear about the spurs :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

They'll come to an agreement by the 31st . No way the spurs want attention from the media with questions regarding Leonard's future with the team all season long.

[Chinook]

Has Chinook weighed in yet? :lol

First time touching Spurstalk (on a computer) in like four days. Been really busy.

As strange as this may sound, I've been a huge fan of maxing out Kawhi for a long time. The only issue is that it doesn't make financial sense for the Spurs to do it now, for all the reasons we've been discussing over the past year or so. I am concerned about the potential of Kawhi throwing a hissy fit for not getting an extension. If he pulls a Parsons to spite the Spurs, I will be pretty annoyed with him. Kawhi is not a franchise player; the Spurs have to be able to bring in more players to even make the post-season.

Extending Kawhi pretty much kills 2015 cap space. There'd still be enough to sign an O'Quinn, so it wouldn't be all that bad from my perspective. But if Tim and Manu retire next season and Kawhi forces the Spurs to give him the max, I definitely think the window is completely shut until at least 2017. That would be a huge shame if it happened simply because Kawhi didn't trust the Spurs to give him a max deal next summer.

[SupremeGuy]

We should just give him the max this year and get this shit out of the way, tbh. We're going to have to end up doing it next summer either way. I mean, yeah keep pushing him to take less than the max up until the deadline, but if he doesn't bend then we might as well agree to it. Tim and Manu are on the way out very soon, and Tony isn't getting any younger either. Keeping Kawhi and Green on the team together is important to our future.

[DPG21920]

Kawhi's obviously not Duncan, but I think he's right there with what Ginobili and Parker were in their early to mid 20s. He's a really strong two way player who can shoot the jumper, go to the post, and finish in transition. I think that translates more to maybe a $13-$14 million a season player instead of an $18 million a season guy, but I could swallow the max extension knowing there is about to be a huge inflation in player contracts from the new TV deal.

I agree and I bet so do the Spurs. He's probably a 12M guy. The reason I said he's not comparable with Tim (obvious) or even TP/Manu is role on the team and ball handling. I have a difficult time outside of a big man like Tim, Shaq ect...paying max to a guys who's not clear with an expanded role can be a centerpiece on a playoff team & thst can't handle the rock like a guard.

[Brazil]

We should just give him the max this year and get this shit out of the way, tbh. We're going to have to end up doing it next summer either way. I mean, yeah keep pushing him to take less than the max up until the deadline, but if he doesn't bend then we might as well agree to it. Tim and Manu are on the way out very soon, and Tony isn't getting any younger either. Keeping Kawhi and Green on the team together is important to our future.

I don't disgree with that tbh

thing is whatever Kawhi is signing could a factor also on Green expectations plus management of future cap space so its quite normal Spurs FO is thinking a bit.


also people (not directed to you Supreme) should not compare with what Manu or Tony got. Using Manu or TP never got $M 18 in their prime is not a good argument as market is totally different now without even starting considering inflation impact.


I do hope Spurs and Kawhi find a deal soon to avoid any kind of unresolved topics during the season, after the comments about getting more touches and such, a frustrated Kawhi and/or Spurs FO would be annoying.

[wildchild]

So that wasn't Timmy who posted on here that one time? :(

Maybe not :(

I don't want to disappoint you about Tim posting here, the FO/Kawhi reading ST, and other things, but Christmas is coming and maybe you should know that Santa...isn't real. :depressed

[littlecoyotecoin]

Has Chinook weighed in yet? :lol

Max for Green!

[Sean Cagney]

Lakers fans on Twitter claiming Westbrook and Kawhi will both be Lakers next year after KD bolts for DC. Then they'll sign Klay Thompson too :lol

We hear the same thing every year from those jackasses when someone becomes a FA. They don't have the money and nobody seems to want to go there, when will they get it?

[Chomag]

:lol Lakers fans on Twitter getting excited about the Lakers possibly luring him to LA

Not far fetched honestly. If KL doesn't get more minutes and implemented more in the offence he just might walk.

[Chomag]

Can't just sit back and wait until next year. There will be many teams giving him the 4 year max. Spurs only chance to sign him for less is 6 days.
Agreed he will be allot more expensive if they wait to long

[Dex]

Well, this thread should go 50 pages by Friday.

[wildchild]

The real, hard number is that he's never played over 66 games in a regular season.

But he played 64 of all the 66 games in his rookie 2011 season (lockout)

[apalisoc_9]

But he played 64 of all the 66 games in his rookie 2011 season (lockout)

nono :lol

[urunobili]

First time touching Spurstalk (on a computer) in like four days. Been really busy.

As strange as this may sound, I've been a huge fan of maxing out Kawhi for a long time. The only issue is that it doesn't make financial sense for the Spurs to do it now, for all the reasons we've been discussing over the past year or so. I am concerned about the potential of Kawhi throwing a hissy fit for not getting an extension. If he pulls a Parsons to spite the Spurs, I will be pretty annoyed with him. Kawhi is not a franchise player; the Spurs have to be able to bring in more players to even make the post-season.

Extending Kawhi pretty much kills 2015 cap space. There'd still be enough to sign an O'Quinn, so it wouldn't be all that bad from my perspective. But if Tim and Manu retire next season and Kawhi forces the Spurs to give him the max, I definitely think the window is completely shut until at least 2017. That would be a huge shame if it happened simply because Kawhi didn't trust the Spurs to give him a max deal next summer.

I think alike this. Awesome take :tu

[ElNono]

But he played 64 of all the 66 games in his rookie 2011 season (lockout)

IIRC, he had a calf strain that season that made him sit out the Rising Stars Challenge...

[ElNono]

nono :lol

:lol I like Kawhi, I would want the Spurs to extend him regardless of any injury concerns... not my money, tbh

[lurker23]

Kawhi will get the max for at least 4 years. Everyone knows this, including the Spurs. As has been mentioned before, this is all about the first year of that max contract vs. the significantly lower cap hold that Kawhi would have next summer as a RFA. Spurs need to plan for a post Duncan and Manu era, and this slight risk is part of that.

In truth, the only risk is the personal relationship between the Spurs and Kawhi souring. If Kawhi remains happy with the Spurs, he'll agree to the max contract the Spurs offer him at the beginning of next offseason, he'll sign it whenever it's beneficial cap-wise to the Spurs, and neither side has to deal with any real aspect of restricted free agency.

[BatManu20]

526708732814565376

[timtonymanu]

Well, this thread should go 50 pages by Friday.

Not with the season starting tomorrow but it should go at least 15. :lol

[BillMc]

Pardon me being late to the discussion, but isn't there a financial reason to wait on Leonard, in case Manu and Timmy decide to keep going? I thought someone made the case that it would be better re-sign TD and Manu first, and then extend Kawhi rather than the other way around. If so, I don't want anything to impede Timmy and Manu coming back if they wish to, even as much as I like Leonard. In this later case, Kawhi would just have to wait.

[Baam]

I foresaw that it would be a problem for Buford to significantly more money to Kawhi than to TP, it'd be just very hard to justify.

[Baam]

The biggest problem is Pop saying one thing (hes the face of the franchise) and doing another (not even putting him in the PnR with TP)...

[littlecoyotecoin]

I think alike this. Awesome take :tu

Agreed. I have trust in Chinook's take on the cap space. Kawhi isn't good enough to carry the load by himself, so if his extension sabotages our bottom line and we can't bring in decent talent to help him, he becomes a very good player on a mediocre team for several years. If that's the case, and he won't accept our match offer next summer, let him walk, and just be bad for a few years and try to rebuild and save some cash.

Demarcus Ware was a very good player. Even with Demarcus Ware, the Cowboys were mediocre for years and years. How much of a loss would it have been if he walked 5 years ago vs recently? No loss at all.

Hopefully it works out, and he trusts The Spurs to take care of him next year. Hopefully the way they've handled the big three can instill some faith in him that they'll take care of him. It would actually be sad to watch him on a crap team he helped create by removing some of their flexibility for the next 2-3 years.

And, to those saying we are acting like it's "our wallet" and the like: It is not that we care about the money, it is whether or not giving him the extension significantly impairs us bringing in another player when/if Manu and/or Tim retires nex year, re-signing Danny, etc. Who cares about Holt's pocket? No one. It's about being able to try to rebuild on the fly and having the cap space to do it when you lose two key pieces, maybe, next summer.

[ElNono]

Agreed. I have trust in Chinook's take on the cap space. Kawhi isn't good enough to carry the load by himself, so if his extension sabotages our bottom line and we can't bring in decent talent to help him, he becomes a very good player on a mediocre team for several years. If that's the case, and he won't accept our match offer next summer, let him walk, and just be bad for a few years and try to rebuild and save some cash.


If the Spurs match an offer he receives next summer, he can't refuse. If the Spurs turn out to be terrible, he can always try to force a trade later on, which would help the Spurs in acquiring picks or rebuilding talent. That's why I think the Spurs will eventually do hand him the max.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If the Spurs match an offer he receives next summer, he can't refuse. If the Spurs turn out to be terrible, he can always try to force a trade later on, which would help the Spurs in acquiring picks or rebuilding talent. That's why I think the Spurs will eventually do hand him the max.

Max contract next year or max extension?

[Mel_13]

Max contract next year or max extension?

Anything next summer is a new contract. The window for an extension closes on Friday.

[wildchild]

If he pulls a Parsons to spite the Spurs, I will be pretty annoyed with him.

Sorry but I don't understand what's the problem with Parsons decision.
We know what was the Rockets proposal before/after Mavs offer? He refused a trade previous years in order to stay in Houston and then he signed with other team? His contract didn't have a no-trade clause but I mean informal talks about some trade?
I didn't read it but maybe the negotiations between the Rox and Parsons became public after he leaves Houston.

I don't like the way that Parsons deal sets a precedent inflating salaries for next wings contracts, but if he was paid like a superstar in Dallas, if a crazy guy like Cuban offered him that, why he should reject it?.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Anything next summer is a new contract. The window for an extension closes on Friday.

I meant eventually offer him the max on his extension (this week) or eventually offer him a max contract (this coming summer), I was just not sure what Nono was suggesting.

Seems clear that he means next summer, but has also seemed pro-extension. Just trying to clarify.

[Mel_13]

I meant eventually offer him the max on his extension (this week) or eventually offer him a max contract (this coming summer), I was just not sure what Nono was suggesting.

Seems clear that he means next summer, but has also seemed pro-extension. Just trying to clarify.

He was responding to you suggesting that Kawhi might not accept a matching offer from the Spurs next summer. Nono correctly pointed out that he won't have that choice.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He was responding to you suggesting that Kawhi might not accept a matching offer from the Spurs next summer. Nono correctly pointed out that he won't have that choice.

Yes. Appreciate that correction.

[ElNono]

I meant eventually offer him the max on his extension (this week) or eventually offer him a max contract (this coming summer), I was just not sure what Nono was suggesting.

Seems clear that he means next summer, but has also seemed pro-extension. Just trying to clarify.

I mean if they don't get to an agreement until next summer, when he's a RFA. At that point, the Spurs can match any offer other teams make, and Kawhi doesn't have any say on that.

[hater]

Well Spurs gave 15 million to the Heats Finals MVP so imo Kawhi is more dan deservingly imhoo

[DPG21920]

Even if the Spurs were willing to do a 4 year max extension, they would be better served to wait. Not only financially (other teams signing him to a 4 year max and Spurs matching is cheaper than the Spurs signing him to a 4 year max extension) but cap-wise since they can keep Kawhi's cap hold which will undoubtedly be lower than his contract on the books, sign other players then use their Bird Rights to exceed the cap to sign Kawhi.

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

3) Kawhi in order to get security, is willing to take a 4 year extension at less than max (even then, Spurs would have to believe that savings in doing an extension now outweigh the benefits of waiting and having cap flexibilty next year).

[littlecoyotecoin]

I mean if they don't get to an agreement until next summer, when he's a RFA. At that point, the Spurs can match any offer other teams make, and Kawhi doesn't have any say on that.

I hope we can all live with that.

[Chinook]

Sorry but I don't understand what's the problem with Parsons decision.
We know what was the Rockets proposal before/after Mavs offer? He refused a trade previous years in order to stay in Houston and then he signed with other team? His contract didn't have a no-trade clause but I mean informal talks about some trade?
I didn't read it but maybe the negotiations between the Rox and Parsons became public after he leaves Houston.

I don't like the way that Parsons deal sets a precedent inflating salaries for next wings contracts, but if he was paid like a superstar in Dallas, if a crazy guy like Cuban offered him that, why he should reject it?.

From what I gather, the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them. Parsons, feeling slighted that Houston didn't consider him a third star, promptly signed a max offer sheet with Dallas. That essentially forced Houston to pick between the chance at Bosh or keeping Parsons, when they would have been able to keep both. Of course, they ended up with neither.

The fear is that Leonard would do something similar to what Parsons did if he doesn't get a max extension. From a standpoint of securing the most cash he can, it makes sense for Kawhi to sign with the Spurs next summer for a five-year max deal. That would help both sides. But if he feels disrespected by the Spurs prioritizing future cap space over allaying Leonard's concern over a new deal, Kawhi may go for a short-term deal with a new team. The Spurs could and would match (provided the other team didn't have a hell of a S&T package to offer), but it would both put a constraint on how long they had cap space next summer and make 2017 a year where they have to appease Leonard in order to convince him to stay. The Spurs could end up in a situation where Kawhi walks in 2017 because the team isn't competitive, where the main reason why the team wasn't competitive is because Leonard took his money a few months too early.

The obstacle/thing to watch here is not the money; the Spurs will give Kawhi his. It's all about how Leonard handles these negotiations. In my opinion, he simply isn't good enough for the Spurs to kowtow for. If he plays this like we expect Spurs to do (have a team-first approach even though he's going to still get a max deal), then things will be fine for everyone. However, if he ends up being a diva about this like Parsons did, it's possible that it won't really matter if he walks or not.

[DPG21920]

People keep forgetting the Spurs are different than everyone else and no one is above the team (outside of Duncan/Robinson). Spurs have shown they take care of their own long-term and have the best front office when it comes to winning.

If players don't buy into that, especially non-Duncan type players, then perhaps they don't belong.

[DPG21920]

Basically, what I mean by that, is if Kawhi would have sour grapes for the Spurs paying him a lot of money and asking him to earn more, then he's probably a dummy and doesn't understand the Spurs model of success.

[Chinook]

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

Even that doesn't make sense. They can give Kawhi a new five-year deal next summer if they want to. The only reason an extension makes sense is if he's Davis caliber, where even the Rose-max is less than he's worth.


2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

QOs are weird. The Spurs would probably offer an mQO, which would prevent such a scenario, I believe. It'd also prevent a Parsons scenario, although only in the sense that the contract would have to be a year longer.

I agree with 3). There's very little reason to extend any player for the max. Leonard has to realize that if he wants the Spurs to give up financial flexibility, he has to give up something to make it worthwhile.

[Mel_13]

From what I gather, the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them. Parsons, feeling slighted that Houston didn't consider him a third star, promptly signed a max offer sheet with Dallas. That essentially forced Houston to pick between the chance at Bosh or keeping Parsons, when they would have been able to keep both. Of course, they ended up with neither.

The fear is that Leonard would do something similar to what Parsons did if he doesn't get a max extension. From a standpoint of securing the most cash he can, it makes sense for Kawhi to sign with the Spurs next summer for a five-year max deal. That would help both sides. But if he feels disrespected by the Spurs prioritizing future cap space over allaying Leonard's concern over a new deal, Kawhi may go for a short-term deal with a new team. The Spurs could and would match (provided the other team didn't have a hell of a S&T package to offer), but it would both put a constraint on how long they had cap space next summer and make 2017 a year where they have to appease Leonard in order to convince him to stay. The Spurs could end up in a situation where Kawhi walks in 2017 because the team isn't competitive, where the main reason why the team wasn't competitive is because Leonard took his money a few months too early.

The obstacle/thing to watch here is not the money; the Spurs will give Kawhi his. It's all about how Leonard handles these negotiations. In my opinion, he simply isn't good enough for the Spurs to kowtow for. If he plays this like we expect Spurs to do (have a team-first approach even though he's going to still get a max deal), then things will be fine for everyone. However, if he ends up being a diva about this like Parsons did, it's possible that it won't really matter if he walks or not.

Or, having assumed the risk of waiting a year so that the team had a more favorable cap situation in 2015, Leonard goes for a shorter term deal next summer simply to maximize his potential earnings. Choosing that path does not have to result from feeling disrespected or acting like a diva.

[BillMc]

Even if the Spurs were willing to do a 4 year max extension, they would be better served to wait. Not only financially (other teams signing him to a 4 year max and Spurs matching is cheaper than the Spurs signing him to a 4 year max extension) but cap-wise since they can keep Kawhi's cap hold which will undoubtedly be lower than his contract on the books, sign other players then use their Bird Rights to exceed the cap to sign Kawhi.

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

3) Kawhi in order to get security, is willing to take a 4 year extension at less than max (even then, Spurs would have to believe that savings in doing an extension now outweigh the benefits of waiting and having cap flexibilty next year).




The obstacle/thing to watch here is not the money; the Spurs will give Kawhi his. It's all about how Leonard handles these negotiations. In my opinion, he simply isn't good enough for the Spurs to kowtow for. If he plays this like we expect Spurs to do (have a team-first approach even though he's going to still get a max deal), then things will be fine for everyone. However, if he ends up being a diva about this like Parsons did, it's possible that it won't really matter if he walks or not.

So, let's wait. It's better for getting Timmy, maybe Manu and Green back too. Leonard's going to have to trust in the Spurs and handle it like a pro and then he'll get his.

[Galileo]

Leonard is the only players in NBA history with a 70% win percentage in playoffs. And he is the only player with a 75% win percentage in regular season. He is the best player in the NBA and just dominated LeBron James. Give him a max deal. The cap is going way up anyway, and many lesser players are getting hug contracts.

[Chinook]

Because some team will be willing to give him a three year deal with a player option for year three. That gets him two years at the max and makes him an unrestricted FA in the summer of 2017. No reason to take the QO just to get to free agency one year earlier. The Parsons scenario is the risk that the Spurs assume by not reaching an extension agreement this summer.

I've been saying this as well, but I realize that this fear is unfounded. The Spurs can step up with a Maximum Qualifying Offer, which would prevent teams from signing Leonard to a 2+1 kind of deal. Would stop them from offering a 3 or 3+1, however.

[ElNono]

People keep forgetting the Spurs are different than everyone else and no one is above the team (outside of Duncan/Robinson). Spurs have shown they take care of their own long-term and have the best front office when it comes to winning.

If players don't buy into that, especially non-Duncan type players, then perhaps they don't belong.

Most players actually don't really buy into that, IMO... those that do are the exception, not the rule...

[Chinook]

Or, having assumed the risk of waiting a year so that the team had a more favorable cap situation in 2015, Leonard goes for a shorter term deal next summer simply to maximize his potential earnings. Choosing that path does not have to result from feeling disrespected or acting like a diva.

Well, as I've mention in a post just now, Leonard probably won't be able to choose a two-year deal anyway if the Spurs don't want him to.

As far as reasons to extend, it's also possible that Kawhi will accept a Durant-style five-year deal with no options, whereas next summer, he'll want a PO. That may be worth the Spurs getting a deal now.

[BillMc]

From what I gather, the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them. Parsons, feeling slighted that Houston didn't consider him a third star, promptly signed a max offer sheet with Dallas.

Wasn't that also what happened with Boozer all those years ago in Cleveland? It seems like every time a team lets a player out of his contract with "an understanding" they bolt.

[DPG21920]

Even that doesn't make sense. They can give Kawhi a new five-year deal next summer if they want to. The only reason an extension makes sense is if he's Davis caliber, where even the Rose-max is less than he's worth.

QOs are weird. The Spurs would probably offer an mQO, which would prevent such a scenario, I believe. It'd also prevent a Parsons scenario, although only in the sense that the contract would have to be a year longer.

I agree with 3). There's very little reason to extend any player for the max. Leonard has to realize that if he wants the Spurs to give up financial flexibility, he has to give up something to make it worthwhile.

I agree with what you said, I was just assuming that the Spurs value Kawhi like you just described (which they shouldn't/won't) and that if they do value him like that have a legit fear he would throw a tantrum and leave (which in that case, they should S&T him).

[Dverde]

The money and years is already agreed upon...the item holding up the deal is the clause for how many daughters Kawhi gets turn down over the course of the contract. Kawhi wants a set number with numbered cards to hand out to daughters, Spurs only willing to give unlimited daughters at HEB and Academy Sports.

[UZER]

Pay the man! *John malkovich rounders voice*



KL is they perfect sidekick for a superstar player. But they'll have to Max him out to keep him.

[DPG21920]

*John malkovich rounders voice*



KL is they perfect sidekick for a superstar player. But they'll have to Max him out to keep him.

If that is true, then they should wait and allow him to become a RFA and give him his max contract next year.

[wildchild]

It is not that we care about the money, it is whether or not giving him the extension significantly impairs us bringing in another player when/if Manu and/or Tim retires nex year, re-signing Danny, etc. Who cares about Holt's pocket? No one.

He was willing to invest in other leagues, why the franchise can't pay tax only for a year to get competitive quickly after Duncan era?

Even if they don't extend Leonard this week, they won't have cape space enough in 2015 to maintain Leonard and Green, and sign a FA big name.
We can't sign a star like Aldridge and match Leonard max offer/sign Green new deal.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Or, having assumed the risk of waiting a year so that the team had a more favorable cap situation in 2015, Leonard goes for a shorter term deal next summer simply to maximize his potential earnings. Choosing that path does not have to result from feeling disrespected or acting like a diva.

I wouldn't begrudge him that.

[Mel_13]

I've been saying this as well, but I realize that this fear is unfounded. The Spurs can step up with a Maximum Qualifying Offer, which would prevent teams from signing Leonard to a 2+1 kind of deal. Would stop them from offering a 3 or 3+1, however.


Well, as I've mention in a post just now, Leonard probably won't be able to choose a two-year deal anyway if the Spurs don't want him to.

As far as reasons to extend, it's also possible that Kawhi will accept a Durant-style five-year deal with no options, whereas next summer, he'll want a PO. That may be worth the Spurs getting a deal now.

That's not my understanding of the consequences of a max QO. Maybe DPG can tweet Coon for clarification.

The relevant portion from Coon's FAQ:

To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has five options:

He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
He can sign an offer sheet with another team through March 1, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

As I read that, a max QO from the Spurs would not prevent Kawhi from accepting a Parsons-like offer sheet from another team.

Edit: You're right about the Parsons deal. He could sign, as you say, a 3yr deal or a 3+1.

So he couldn't get to free agency before 2018.

[SupremeGuy]

Even if the Spurs were willing to do a 4 year max extension, they would be better served to wait. Not only financially (other teams signing him to a 4 year max and Spurs matching is cheaper than the Spurs signing him to a 4 year max extension) but cap-wise since they can keep Kawhi's cap hold which will undoubtedly be lower than his contract on the books, sign other players then use their Bird Rights to exceed the cap to sign Kawhi.

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

3) Kawhi in order to get security, is willing to take a 4 year extension at less than max (even then, Spurs would have to believe that savings in doing an extension now outweigh the benefits of waiting and having cap flexibilty next year).You've convinced me, tbh. Next year it is. It's all about being able to use the Bird Rights to our advantage.

[SupremeGuy]

He was willing to invest in other leagues, why the franchise can't pay tax only for a year to get competitive quickly after Duncan era?

Even if they don't extend Leonard this week, they won't have cape space enough in 2015 to maintain Leonard and Green, and sign a FA big name.
We can't sign a star like Aldridge and match Leonard max offer/sign Green new deal.Well, that depends who retires and whatnot, tbh.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He was willing to invest in other leagues, why the franchise can't pay tax only for a year to get competitive quickly after Duncan era?

Even if they don't extend Leonard this week, they won't have cape space enough in 2015 to maintain Leonard and Green, and sign a FA big name.
We can't sign a star like Aldridge and match Leonard max offer/sign Green new deal.

I'm not so sure about any of that as you are. If Manu and Tim both retire, maybe Bonner comes off the books, we will have quite a bit of cash...what are they? About 10 million for Tim and 7 million for Manu? Belli, Bonner, Daye, Ayers, and Baynes are all off the books as well. I don't understand a lot of contract stuff and cap space rules, but as long as they don't mess it up right now, I believe they are as well structured to bring someone in in 2015 if Manu and/or Tim retires as they can reasonably be expected to be.

[Chinook]

That's not my understanding of the consequences of a max QO. Maybe DPG can tweet Coon for clarification.

The relevant portion from Coon's FAQ:

To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has five options:

He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
He can sign an offer sheet with another team through March 1, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

As I read that, a max QO from the Spurs would not prevent Kawhi from accepting a Parsons-like offer sheet from another team.

Edit: You're right about the Parsons deal. He could sign, as you say, a 3yr deal or a 3+1.

So he couldn't get to free agency before 2018.

Yeah, meant "Wouldn't stop them..."

Of course, giving Leonard a mQO defeats the purpose of not extending him, since it should take up more cap space than his hold would. I guess the team could always agree to a deal with a free agent (and Leonard), then waive the mQO before using Bird rights to reup Kawhi. But obviously, that exposes the team to the same risks of Kawhi bolting as soon as he gets the chance only without the security of having right of first refusal. Still, if Leonard plays well but seems absolutely unhappy with the Spurs' FO (the way Parsons seemed last season), then an mQO is a good way to keep Kawhi on the team for at least three more years.

[Chinook]

Well, that depends who retires and whatnot, tbh.

And whether the cap does a minijump next summer. It's really going to be interesting to see that from the Spurs' perspective. On one hand, that jump would give them the space to sign a max player and reup Lock-n-Lock. On the other hand, the max contracts Leonard and the FA receive will be a lot bigger than the ones they'd receive if the cap doesn't jump. That affects 2017 cap space in a big way.

[Mel_13]

I'm not so sure about any of that as you are. If Manu and Tim both retire, maybe Bonner comes off the books, we will have quite a bit of cash...what are they? About 10 million for Tim and 7 million for Manu? Belli, Bonner, Daye, Ayers, and Baynes are all off the books as well. I don't understand a lot of contract stuff and cap space rules, but as long as they don't mess it up right now, I believe they are as well structured to bring someone in in 2015 if Manu and/or Tim retires as they can reasonably be expected to be.

There are plenty of unknowns about next summer's cap situation. One certain thing is that a Kawhi extension this summer could reduce potential cap space next summer by 8M or so. Probably fair to assume that accounts for much of the team's reluctance to max out Kawhi right now.

[RD2191]

People keep forgetting the Spurs are different than everyone else and no one is above the team (outside of Duncan/Robinson). Spurs have shown they take care of their own long-term and have the best front office when it comes to winning.

If players don't buy into that, especially non-Duncan type players, then perhaps they don't belong.
Okay, so Spurs fuck around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

Okay, so Spurs fuck around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

:lol No need to panick. When was the last time a key FA "bolted" the Spurs? Have the Spurs not had the best FO over the past 12 years? You really think they can't survive Kawhi leaving especially with the mechanisms in place to compenstate teams for their own FA?

[RD2191]

What star is coming here? Spurs couldn't even land big names after winning the title.:lol

[RD2191]

:lol No need to panick. When was the last time a key FA "bolted" the Spurs? Have the Spurs not had the best FO over the past 12 years? You really think they can't survive Kawhi leaving especially with the mechanisms in place to compenstate teams for their own FA?
As I said, what's the plan? Tbh.

[wildchild]

the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them

Thanks!! I understand now.


The Spurs could and would match (provided the other team didn't have a hell of a S&T package to offer), but it would both put a constraint on how long they had cap space next summer and make 2017 a year where they have to appease Leonard in order to convince him to stay. The Spurs could end up in a situation where Kawhi walks in 2017 because the team isn't competitive, where the main reason why the team wasn't competitive is because Leonard took his money a few months too early
IMO the main reason for that will be the Spurs won't convince another star to play in SA rebuilding mode and a new coach who will have his head coach rookie season in 2017...

However, the Rockets lost Parsons for want to cap space to sign Parsons and "possible" Bosh deal, so the Spurs don't extend Leonard to have cap space in 2015 taking the risk to lose him, then they can't sign a FA star and will overpaid mid talent..It doesn't sound good

[Diego20]

He doesn't even deserve more than 6 mill a year, unless this season he has stats like 20 points per game, 8/10 rebounds per game, etc. But then I see that TS earns like 9 mill a year WTF? What's wrong with Spurs??

[ElNono]

Okay, so Spurs fuck around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

Build around Cojo...

[SupremeGuy]

As I said, what's the plan? Tbh.You're right, the end is nigh.

http://gifshost.com/1234443297_ken_park_suicide.gif

[RD2191]

Build around Cojo...
I like the way you think. :bobo

[RD2191]

You're right, the end is nigh.

http://gifshost.com/1234443297_ken_park_suicide.gif
Bonner's son?

[DPG21920]

Well, as aweome as I am, I personally don't have a plan laid out for this Class 5 Level Orange Emergency. I am sure with some thought, I could outline a feasible plan A, B, C. The fact is, the Spurs will be the Spurs if Kawhi bolts. May hurt, may set things back some, but they will survive.

[RD2191]

:wakeup

[wildchild]

I'm not so sure about any of that as you are. If Manu and Tim both retire, maybe Bonner comes off the books, we will have quite a bit of cash...what are they? About 10 million for Tim and 7 million for Manu? Belli, Bonner, Daye, Ayers, and Baynes are all off the books as well. I don't understand a lot of contract stuff and cap space rules, but as long as they don't mess it up right now, I believe they are as well structured to bring someone in in 2015 if Manu and/or Tim retires as they can reasonably be expected to be.

Tony Parker $13,400,000
Tiago Splitter $8,500,000
Boris Diaw $7,000,000
Patty Mills $3,578,947
Kyle Anderson $1,142,879
Kawhi Leonard $4,045,894 (if they don't extend him it counts as his qualifying offer)

If salary cap is 66/68M that mean 27/28M in cap space.

The Spurs can't sign Aldridge or another FA star caliber talent and sign Green (Kawhi max deal will be on the books in 2016 season) with that space.
Only Aldridge/Marc Gasol/etc deal is 20M (max contract for players that have been in the league for more than six years is 30% of the cap, which would amount to $19.95 million)
And whatever the cap expected to be in 2016, they obviously would pay tax that year if they sign those three players.

But don't worry they won't pay tax, we know they won't sign Aldridge or Gasol or any FA star...

[littlecoyotecoin]

Okay, so Spurs fuck around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

You sign whichever ones you can and build through the draft. What else can you do? You can extend him now and be even more sure you can't get a FA to sign here as you'll have 8 million less cap space to offer. Then buy your tickets to watch Kawhi be the leading scorer on a bad team for several years, maybe.

[littlecoyotecoin]

What star is coming here? Spurs couldn't even land big names after winning the title.:lol

Mainly because:

C) We didn't have a lot of money to offer a big name. We had the MLE and the BAE, IIRC.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Build around Cojo...

Well, he did dunk on Abaka once. Franchise player.

[Richie]

Tony Parker $13,400,000
Tiago Splitter $8,500,000
Boris Diaw $7,000,000
Patty Mills $3,578,947
Kyle Anderson $1,142,879
Kawhi Leonard $4,045,894 (if they don't extend him it counts as his qualifying offer)

If salary cap is 66/68M that mean 27/28M in cap space.

The Spurs can't sign Aldridge or another FA star caliber talent and sign Green (Kawhi max deal will be on the books in 2016 season) with that space.
Only Aldridge/Marc Gasol/etc deal is 20M (max contract for players that have been in the league for more than six years is 30% of the cap, which would amount to $19.95 million)
And whatever the cap expected to be in 2016, they obviously would pay tax that year if they sign those three players.

Kawhis cap hold isn't his qualifying offer, it's 250% of his previous salary which is around $7m

[wildchild]

Kawhis cap hold isn't his qualifying offer, it's 250% of his previous salary which is around $7m

Well, less cap space. 24/25M

20 for a max FA and Danny won't sign a 4/5M deal again

[littlecoyotecoin]

Tony Parker $13,400,000
Tiago Splitter $8,500,000
Boris Diaw $7,000,000
Patty Mills $3,578,947
Kyle Anderson $1,142,879
Kawhi Leonard $4,045,894 (if they don't extend him it counts as his qualifying offer)

If salary cap is 66/68M that mean 27/28M in cap space.

The Spurs can't sign Aldridge or another FA star caliber talent and sign Green (Kawhi max deal will be on the books in 2016 season) with that space.
Only Aldridge/Marc Gasol/etc deal is 20M (max contract for players that have been in the league for more than six years is 30% of the cap, which would amount to $19.95 million)
And whatever the cap expected to be in 2016, they obviously would pay tax that year if they sign those three players.

But don't worry they won't pay tax, we know they won't sign Aldridge or Gasol or any FA star...

I don't know that all of that salary applies to the cap. I will take your word for it. Tax line is at around 77, this year and should be much higher next year. With Bird rights and cap holds, etc, I am, again, not so confident they won't have some wiggle room. Although, I never said that they would necessarily be able to afford another max player, just that they are doing their best to keep as much space available next year as possible.

Also, as a one off year to rebuild, etc, I would not preclude them from paying a tax if they found the right player and situation. And, there might be a difference between a 1 million dollar tax and a 7 million dollar tax, etc, being a yes vs a no from Holt, et al. You act as if no FA has ever come, and/or The Spurs have never been willing to pay the tax.

http://data.shamsports.com/media/TAX2013final.jpg

But, they've paid tax before, and when they have money to spend, you never know what free agent would be willing to come because we usually DON'T have money to spend. When Manu and/or Tim retire, their fan base will expect them to fill those holes within reason. Someone will come. Maybe they get railroaded with another Richard Jefferson, or maybe this FA works out a little better. Who knows.

[hitmantb]

There is very little question KL is worth a max contract. Just look at Parsons. Also if you lock him in now before the TV deal you are probably getting a bargain. LeBron delayed his max deal because he will get more money two years from now in his last big contract.

KL has no obligations to take a pay cut at such a young age and he already paid Spurs in full with three break out games to turn a 1-1 series and what looked like a Utah Jazz 1998 situation into a 4-1 blow out and the best sports story ever. He completely canceled out LeBron on both ends of the floor, in the NBA finals when it mattered, how many players can do this, Manu and Parker included, in their primes?

And how do you know he can not get better? His first three seasons in the NBA have been WC finals and two finals. He experienced more than even Duncan did at the same age. Until Pop gives him consistent minutes and play calling, his stats will not look pretty against other max players, but it doesn't mean he will take less money.

It is not about the money, it is about respect. Remember in the championship video, the first thing KL said to Pop was "thank you for trusting me, OMG!". And the way he lost his father, trust is very important.

And I will always be grateful to him no matter what happens, because he gave Duncan's career a happy ending.

[wildchild]

Well, that depends who retires and whatnot, tbh.

You're right about retirements.
If Tim/Manu stay next year and the Spurs don't extend Kawhi make it worse, they just annoyed him for nothing

[DPG21920]

There is very little question KL is worth a max contract. Just look at Parsons. Also if you lock him in now before the TV deal you are probably getting a bargain. LeBron delayed his max deal because he will get more money two years from now in his last big contract.

KL has no obligations to take a pay cut at such a young age and he already paid Spurs in full with three break out games to turn a 1-1 series and what looked like a Utah Jazz 1998 situation into a 4-1 blow out and the best sports story ever. He completely canceled out LeBron on both ends of the floor, in the NBA finals when it mattered, how many players can do this, Manu and Parker included, in their primes?

And how do you know he can not get better? His first three seasons in the NBA have been WC finals and two finals. He experienced more than even Duncan did at the same age. Until Pop gives him consistent minutes and play calling, his stats will not look pretty against other max players, but it doesn't mean he will take less money.

It is not about the money, it is about respect. Remember in the championship video, the first thing KL said to Pop was "thank you for trusting me, OMG!". And the way he lost his father, trust is very important.

And I will always be grateful to him no matter what happens, because he gave Duncan's career a happy ending.

You can't on one hand look at the Spurs history of taking care of their guys and even cite how the Spurs showed faith in him and gave him his shot, then say it's about respect.

[Richie]

Well, less cap space. 24/25M

20 for a max FA and Danny won't sign a 4/5M deal again

True. Pretty sure Gasol and Aldridge will be staying put, I don't think theres even a max guy going to be available. Lets be honest though, if we've got a shot at Gasol or Aldridge we'd let Danny walk in order to sign them, you can't pass on a star just to bring back a role player.

If Timmy and Manu come back for one more after this year, I'd happily see us offer Amare a $10m/1yr deal. That lets us bring back Danny and Timmy, give Manu the Room Exception ($2.5m) then extend Kawhi. We then have big cap space for an excellent 2016 free agency class.

[littlecoyotecoin]

There is very little question KL is worth a max contract. Just look at Parsons. Also if you lock him in now before the TV deal you are probably getting a bargain. LeBron delayed his max deal because he will get more money two years from now in his last big contract.

KL has no obligations to take a pay cut at such a young age and he already paid Spurs in full with three break out games to turn a 1-1 series and what looked like a Utah Jazz 1998 situation into a 4-1 blow out and the best sports story ever. He completely canceled out LeBron on both ends of the floor, in the NBA finals when it mattered, how many players can do this, Manu and Parker included, in their primes?

And how do you know he can not get better? His first three seasons in the NBA have been WC finals and two finals. He experienced more than even Duncan did at the same age. Until Pop gives him consistent minutes and play calling, his stats will not look pretty against other max players, but it doesn't mean he will take less money.

It is not about the money, it is about respect. Remember in the championship video, the first thing KL said to Pop was "thank you for trusting me, OMG!". And the way he lost his father, trust is very important.

And I will always be grateful to him no matter what happens, because he gave Duncan's career a happy ending.

No one has said he can't get better. Just about everyone agrees he should get a max offer. Just about everyone in here loves Kawhi.

Most of those things are pretty much givens. The rest of the discussion is a little more nuanced than that.

[tholdren]

Meh... sign and trade

[r0drig0lac]

just pay the man

[TheyCallMePro]

I'm really getting sick of hearing that Kawhi is a max player. He's a good role player playing for a great team. I'm glad the Spurs scoffed at the notion of maxing him, and I hope they always do. Kawhi just isn't and never will be a superstar. And right now he's the 4th or 5th option for the Spurs on a nightly basis. Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.

Seriously, who does Kawhi (or more accurately, his agent) think he is? He's a 8-12 mil/year player max.

[RD2191]

I'm really getting sick of hearing that Kawhi is a max player. He's a good role player playing for a great team. I'm glad the Spurs scoffed at the notion of maxing him, and I hope they always do. Kawhi just isn't and never will be a superstar. And right now he's the 4th or 5th option for the Spurs on a nightly basis. Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.

Seriously, who does Kawhi (or more accurately, his agent) think he is? He's a 8-12 mil/year player max.
Lol. Worst take of all time.

[Holden_Caulfield]

as much as i love kawhi as a player, this isnt the spurs way...

[SupremeGuy]

I'm really getting sick of hearing that Kawhi is a max player. He's a good role player playing for a great team. I'm glad the Spurs scoffed at the notion of maxing him, and I hope they always do. Kawhi just isn't and never will be a superstar. And right now he's the 4th or 5th option for the Spurs on a nightly basis. Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.

Seriously, who does Kawhi (or more accurately, his agent) think he is? He's a 8-12 mil/year player max.In a perfect World, you're right. But, we're living in a World where Parsons and Hayward got the max so Kawhi will undoubtedly want the same.

[timtonymanu]

Lol. Worst take or all time.

I'm convinced that poster is a troll.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I'm really getting sick of hearing that Kawhi is a max player. He's a good role player playing for a great team. I'm glad the Spurs scoffed at the notion of maxing him, and I hope they always do. Kawhi just isn't and never will be a superstar. And right now he's the 4th or 5th option for the Spurs on a nightly basis. Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.

Seriously, who does Kawhi (or more accurately, his agent) think he is? He's a 8-12 mil/year player max.

I hope the rest of the NBA feels the way you do. Unfortunately, they'll probably disagree with you. Pop has brought him along slowly. We had the luxury of doing that. He's been somewhat sheltered and protected under the umbrella of the big three. But, after winning the FMVP, and all sorts of inferior players getting over-payed, his value has sky-rocketed. He would have put up bigger numbers on a team that needed him to do so.

[Robz4000]

True. Pretty sure Gasol and Aldridge will be staying put, I don't think theres even a max guy going to be available. Lets be honest though, if we've got a shot at Gasol or Aldridge we'd let Danny walk in order to sign them, you can't pass on a star just to bring back a role player.

If Timmy and Manu come back for one more after this year, I'd happily see us offer Amare a $10m/1yr deal. That lets us bring back Danny and Timmy, give Manu the Room Exception ($2.5m) then extend Kawhi. We then have big cap space for an excellent 2016 free agency class.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg?1315930535

[Richie]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg?1315930535

Look at the free agency class, assuming Aldridge and Gasol don't move it's tragically bad. There's no point in giving someone multiple years as it would hamstring us for the 2016 class, and even then there isn't anyone worth it. Bring him off the bench against the other teams backups, playing pick and roll with Manu would be great to watch.

[Robz4000]

Look at the free agency class, assuming Aldridge and Gasol don't move it's tragically bad. There's no point in giving someone multiple years as it would hamstring us for the 2016 class, and even then there isn't anyone worth it. Bring him off the bench against the other teams backups, playing pick and roll with Manu would be great to watch.

:lol I'd rather just stand pat than sign him, much less for that money. Just because it's there doesn't mean you should spend money.

[TheyCallMePro]

In a perfect World, you're right. But, we're living in a World where Parsons and Hayward got the max so Kawhi will undoubtedly want the same.

It's ridiculous to have to succumb to giving Kawhi a ridiculous and undeserved max contract just because two other bad organizations chose to do so for their scrub-ass players. I remember when other teams used to laugh at teams like the Knicks when they handed out horrible contracts left and right. Seriously, what has the NBA come to? If a few teams are run badly and hand out terrible contracts, that shouldn't mean the rest of the NBA has to succumb to the market pressure and follow suit. If they all did that, you'd have 30 badly run organizations.

[Silver&Black]

I'm really getting sick of hearing that Kawhi is a max player. He's a good role player playing for a great team. I'm glad the Spurs scoffed at the notion of maxing him, and I hope they always do. Kawhi just isn't and never will be a superstar. And right now he's the 4th or 5th option for the Spurs on a nightly basis. Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.

Seriously, who does Kawhi (or more accurately, his agent) think he is? He's a 8-12 mil/year player max.

:bang

[FireMicoHalili]

Leonard is the only players in NBA history with a 70% win percentage in playoffs. And he is the only player with a 75% win percentage in regular season. He is the best player in the NBA and just dominated LeBron James. Give him a max deal. The cap is going way up anyway, and many lesser players are getting hug contracts.
I agree, that winning percentage was not at all because Leonard was playing with the Big Three or because he played for Pop. He certainly deserves a hug contract after winning FMVP. All the hugs in the world for this man right here.

[FireMicoHalili]

On a more serious note though, the waiting is beneficial for the Spurs (solely, I guess). Forces Leonard to up his game and gives them an opportunity to pay a lower price in case no one scoops him up for the max next year (highly unlikely).

[r0drig0lac]

I'm really getting sick of hearing that Kawhi is a max player. He's a good role player playing for a great team. I'm glad the Spurs scoffed at the notion of maxing him, and I hope they always do. Kawhi just isn't and never will be a superstar. And right now he's the 4th or 5th option for the Spurs on a nightly basis. Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.

Seriously, who does Kawhi (or more accurately, his agent) think he is? He's a 8-12 mil/year player max.

wrong

[RD2191]

I'm convinced that poster is a troll.
:lol

[ElNono]

I might open a can of worms with this question, but would you guys say Kawhi > Paul George?

Because if you think he is, then I think a max deal should be automatic, if you don't think he is, then it's probably more debatable...

[wildchild]

Seriously, you can't give someone 20 mil per year to just stand in the corner and wait for Tony Parker to penetrate and kick out to you for an open 3.
They didn't win the last finals with him just standing in the corner.

But you're right he should sign with another team, he should force a trade.
After all being a 5th options as you said, the Spurs won't lose nothing if he leaves, just the only guy on the team who can to play successfully on both ends against the best player in the league.
Agree with you, I can't wait to watch Leonard defending Manu or Beli next playoffs, or being part of some next Big 3 in a Cali team.


Seriously, what has the NBA come to? If a few teams are run badly and hand out terrible contracts, that shouldn't mean the rest of the NBA has to succumb to the market pressure and follow suit.
Supply and demand dictate the salaries, that's how the market works, but you're right other teams aren't the NBA market, only the Spurs.

Seriously...

[SupremeGuy]

George can create for himself on offense and will avg ~25ppg for a majority of his career, and I can't say that Leonard is better than George until I see a lot more out of him on offense.

[Richie]

I might open a can of worms with this question, but would you guys say Kawhi > Paul George?

Because if you think he is, then I think a max deal should be automatic, if you don't think he is, then it's probably more debatable...

George is giving up a little on defence but George is a much better offensive player at this point. They're both easily max players.

I hate the term 'max' because people seem to get confused. Would Kawhi be worth a $125m/5yr max that Bosh or Melo got? I'd argue probably not, but he's absolutely worth $90m/5yr

[wildchild]

True. Pretty sure Gasol and Aldridge will be staying put, I don't think theres even a max guy going to be available.
Agree, but I said that because guys here acting like the 2015 cap space will be a sort of miracle which will allow the Spurs to sign every FA they want.

[cjw]

His max would be set to the cap next year, right (with 7.5% annual raises)? So assuming it goes to $66.5mm, that would mean a year one salary of $16.625mm and a final year number at $22.2mm (five years / $96.6mm) even if it were agreed to now - it would be set based on next year's cap. If the cap were to jump even more the following year, it would be more team-friendly.

Either way, he's earned max money and guys like this don't grow on trees. Give it to him, even if you wait until you see how FA plays out next year first to try to keep his lower cap number.

[Mel_13]

George is giving up a little on defence but George is a much better offensive player at this point. They're both easily max players.

I hate the term 'max' because people seem to get confused. Would Kawhi be worth a $125m/5yr max that Bosh or Melo got? I'd argue probably not, but he's absolutely worth $90m/5yr

True. Max contracts and max extensions mean different things depending on the situation. I think when people say that Kawhi isn't a max player, they really mean that he isn't a franchise player. He's not a franchise player, there are very few of those in the NBA at any given time and they earn that designation by performing at the very highest level for a very long time.

Max players are created every summer by the economic circumstances of a league with rapidly rising revenues, the distribution of which is governed by the current CBA. Under those circumstances, Kawhi is a max player.

[benefactor]

I swear...threads like this bring out some tragically bad takes. Worst and best of ST, tbh.

[wildchild]

I might open a can of worms with this question, but would you guys say Kawhi > Paul George?

Because if you think he is, then I think a max deal should be automatic, if you don't think he is, then it's probably more debatable...

What's about Leonard=George? They should extend him or not?

I don't like Paul George as centerpice of any offense, we all know what happend last season. I think the same about Leonard, I see them like a part of a power perimeter duo or a part of some big 3 like James/Wade/Bosh max players all of them.

[Malik Hairston]

Tough position for the Spurs to be in, tbh..

Kawhi isn't as bad as many people in this thread have stated(posting raw numbers:lol, claiming he's a spot-up shooter, saying he can't be a #2 guy on a title team, etc), and he isn't as good as others have claimed(ranking him by individual winning %:lol, saying he was the clear-cut best player in the title run, etc)..he's somewhere in the middle, obviously..

He does still have to prove himself, but it's very difficult to do so in Pop's system, especially since his style of play isn't a natural fit with the Spurs..as Pop himself has said, most of Leonard's contributions, even offensively, are improvised, rather than running plays for him through the system..

OTOH, it would be virtually impossible to replace him..the Spurs are the most team-oriented squad in the history of the NBA, you can point to many individual attributes as the most important, but IMO, the perimeter defense combination of Leonard/Green is the most valuable part of the Spurs' roster..even if Leonard isn't necessarily worth the max extension, it doesn't make any sense to let him walk if you're still planning on contending(which the Spurs are for the next 2-3 seasons)..

Then there's the obvious factor of the market being set..Chandler Parsons' style of play will never win a championship as a top 3 option(he's not good enough offensively, yet doesn't possess the attributes of a high-end role player), yet he's getting paid a ton of money..Gordon Hayward is the same..

Klay Thompson is a glorified 3&D guy, much inferior to Leonard according to virtually all metrics, yet he's easily going to receive a max deal and kill a team's franchise for the future..

Signing Leonard to a max deal may be risky, but at least unlike guys like Parsons and Hayward, worst-case scenario is that even if Kawhi fails as a top 2 option, he can still give you elite defense and rebounding, along with already knowing how to excel in the system at the highest level..

[Malik Hairston]

Also, more importantly, the Spurs are a different case, they have already proven that they can win a title without a conventional/traditional "#1/2/3" option..

The Spurs signing Leonard to a huge deal is not the same as virtually any other team doing the same..like Splitter, they would be paying him what he's worth to play his role, whatever Pop wants it to be..on another team, they'll be signing Leonard to be a #1 or #2 guy on a title team, which is obviously much riskier..

[BatManu20]

^ what he said.

[Mikeanaro]

This thread is getting weirder and weirder.

[spurraider21]

as much as i love kawhi as a player, this isnt the spurs way...
bruh the spurs way has been to luckily stumble upon a top 15 all time player and just ride their ass for 35+ years :lol

it will be amazing how long the "spurs way" will last when duncan/manu hangem up.

keep kawhi tbh... small market teams cant afford to let that kind of talent get away. its been said that signing him to a max now wont be so bad when the new cba kicks in

[ducks]

with cap going up max is what he will get paid

he is worth more then love with the cavs

could you imagine him and james on the same team

[wildchild]

Tough position for the Spurs to be in, tbh..

Kawhi isn't as bad as many people in this thread have stated(posting raw numbers:lol, claiming he's a spot-up shooter, saying he can't be a #2 guy on a title team, etc), and he isn't as good as others have claimed(ranking him by individual winning %:lol, saying he was the clear-cut best player in the title run, etc)..he's somewhere in the middle, obviously...

I don't want to take literally this but he could rank above every SF in the league no named Lebron/Durant.
Harrison Barnes is there, not the best or worst wing in the league, so basically they'are the same player if Leonard is just in the middle.

[Malik Hairston]

I don't want to take literally this but he could rank above every SF in the league no named Lebron/Durant.
Harrison Barnes is there, not the best or worst wing in the league, so basically they'are the same player if Leonard is just in the middle.

No, I meant Kawhi is somewhere in the middle of the extremes in this thread..posters on ST tend to describe him using extremes IMO..

He's easily in the top 5 SFs in the NBA, arguably #3 now that Paul George is finished as a star IMO..

[AFBlue]

Leonard doesn't strike me as a guy that will hold it against the Spurs next summer if they don't reach a deal this offseason. I don't think there's any financial incentive for them to give him a max deal this year as opposed to next. As such, I doubt anything happens before Friday. Either way I don't see the Spurs screwing this one up. Kawhi will be a well paid Spur for a long while. It's just a matter of when, not if.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I might open a can of worms with this question, but would you guys say Kawhi > Paul George?

Because if you think he is, then I think a max deal should be automatic, if you don't think he is, then it's probably more debatable...

I think Kawhi has a leg up on George.

[AFBlue]

I think Kawhi has a leg up on George.

:lol

Well played

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol

Well played

I thought it was low hanging fruit. I was a little ashamed. :toast

[DPG21920]

Well, HH's argument is tough to make in a linear fashion. Sure, the Spurs have proven they can win without a traditional big 3 and as a team, but the questions are two-fold:

1) While the Spurs have won that way, how sustainable is that? It's incredibly rare and almost never been done before.

2) With #1 in mind, did the Spurs system work because of the players they currently have being superstars who were able to unselfishly shift their games to make the system work?

So I don't think it's at all safe to assume that SA, with Tim/TP/Manu gone that they can go on winning with the same strategy because it doesn't seem at all likely you can get a DPG combo again to make that work. Just really tough. Kawhi should be a Spur, but just because other dumb teams make dumb decisions, does not make that market value.

Spurs have to avoid stupid decisions in a small market with their stars on their way out. That would be like saying me buying a 200K house for 1M sets the market for the entire neighborhood. Sure, some idiots may buy the houses at that value, but it doesn't make it a good finanical decision or that every house will go for that much. I understand that some team will make that offer and that's fine - the right thing to do is wait and match that offer then.