LOL consoles PC Master Race FTW

[baseline bum]

Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox One Already Hitting a Performance Wall (http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Sony-PS4-and-Microsoft-Xbox-One-Already-Hitting-Performance-Wall)

A couple of weeks back a developer on Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed Unity was quoted that the team had decided to run both the Xbox One and the Playstation 4 variants of the game at 1600x900 resolution "to avoid all the debates and stuff." Of course, the Internet exploded in a collection of theories about why that would be the case: were they paid off by Microsoft?
For those of us that focus more on the world of PC gaming, however, the following week an email into the Giantbomb.com weekly podcast (http://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/giant-bombcast-10-14-2014/1600-1034/) from an anonymous (but seemingly reliable) developer on the Unity team raised even more interesting material. In this email, despite addressing other issues on the value of pixel count and the stunning visuals of the game, the developer asserted that we may have already peaked on the graphical compute capability of these two new gaming consoles. Here is a portion of the information:
The PS4 couldn’t do 1080p 30fps for our game, whatever people, or Sony and Microsoft say. ...With all the concessions from Microsoft, backing out of CPU reservations not once, but twice, you’re looking at about a 1-2 FPS difference between the two consoles.
What's hard is not getting the game to render but getting everything else in the game at the same level of performance we designed from the start for the graphics. By the amount of content and NPCs in the game, from someone who witnessed a lot of optimizations for games from Ubisoft in the past, this is crazily optimized for such a young generation of consoles. This is really about to define the next-generation unlike any other game beforehand.
We are bound from the CPU because of AI. Around 50% of the CPU is used for the pre-packaged rendering parts..
So, if we take this anonymous developers information as true, and this whole story is based on that assumption, then have learned some interesting things.


The PS4, the more graphically powerful of the two very similarly designed consoles, was not able to maintain a 30 FPS target when rendering at 1920x1080 resolution with Assassin's Creed Unity.
The Xbox One (after giving developers access to more compute cycles previously reserved to Kinect) is within a 1-2 FPS mark of the PS4.
The Ubisoft team see Unity as being "crazily optimized" for the architecture and consoles even as we just now approach the 1 year anniversary of their release.
Half of the CPU compute time is being used to help the rendering engine by unpacking pre-baked lighting models for the global illumination implementation and thus the game is being limited by the 50% remaining performance power the AI, etc


It would appear that just as many in the media declared when the specifications for the new consoles were announced, the hardware inside the Playstation 4 and Xbox One undershoots the needs of game developers to truly build "next-generation" games. If, as this developer states, we are less than a year into the life cycle of hardware that was planned for an 8-10 year window and we have reached performance limits, that's a bad sign for game developers that really want to create exciting gaming worlds. Keep in mind that this time around the hardware isn't custom built cores or using a Cell architecture - we are talking about very basic x86 cores and traditional GPU hardware that ALL software developers are intimately familiar with. It does not surprise me one bit that we have seen more advanced development teams hit peak performance.


If the PS4, the slightly more powerful console of the pair, is unable to render reliably at 1080p with a 30 FPS target, then unless the Ubisoft team are completely off the rocker in terms of development capability, the advancement of gaming on consoles would appear to be somewhat limited. Remember the specifications for these two consoles:



PlayStation 4
Xbox One


Processor
8-core Jaguar APU
8-core Jaguar APU


Motherboard
Custom
Custom


Memory
8GB GDDR5
8GB DDR3


Graphics Card
1152 Stream Unit APU
768 Stream Unit APU


Peak Compute
1,840 GFLOPS
1,310 GFLOPS


The custom built parts from AMD both feature an 8-core Jaguar x86 architecture and either 768 or 1152 stream processors. The Jaguar CPU cores aren't high performance parts: single-threaded performance of Jaguar is less than the Intel Silvermont/Bay Trail designs by as much as 25%. Bay Trail is powering lots of super low cost tablets today and even the $179 ECS LIVA palm-sized mini-PC (http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Systems/ECS-LIVA-Windows-Based-Mini-PC-Review-Palm-Sized-Desktop-Computer)we reviewed this week. And the 1152/768 stream processors in the GPU portion of the AMD APU provide some punch, but a Radeon HD 7790 (http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-HD-7790-Review-Sea-Islands-and-Bonaire-Make-Appearance) (now called the R7 260X), released in March of 2013, provides more performance than the PS4 and the Radeon R7 250X is faster than what resides in the Xbox One.


If you were to ask me today what kind of performance would be required from AMD's current GPU lineup for a steady 1080p gaming experience on the PC, I would probably tell you the R9 280, a card you can buy today for around $180. From NVIDIA, I would likely pick a GTX 760 (around $200).
Also note that if the developer is using 50% of the CPU resources for rendering computation and the remaining 50% isn't able to hold up its duties on AI, etc., we likely have hit performance walls on the x86 cores as well.
Even if this developer quote is 100% correct that doesn't mean that the current generation of consoles is completely doomed. Microsoft has already stated that DirectX 12, focused on performance efficiency of current generation hardware, will be coming to the Xbox One (http://gamingbolt.com/devs-react-to-dx-12-doubling-xbox-one-gpu-speed-ps4-ice-programmer-be-suspicious-of-claims) and that could mean additional performance gains for developers. The PS4 will likely have access to OpenGL Next (http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/11/khronos-group-starts-working-on-the-next-generation-of-its-opengl-3d-specs/)that is due in the future. And of course, it's also possible that this developer is just wrong and there is plenty of headroom left in the hardware for games to take advantage of.


But honestly, based on my experience with these GPU and CPU cores, I don't think that's the case. If you look at screenshots of Assassin's Creed Unity and then look at the minimum and recommended specifications for the game on the PC (http://blog.ubi.com/assassins-creed-unity-pc-specs/), there is huge, enormous discrepancy. Are the developers just writing lazy code and not truly optimizing for the hardware? It seems unlikely that a company the size of Ubisoft would choose this route on purpose, creating a console game that runs in a less-than-ideal state while also struggling on the PC version. Remember, there is almost no "porting" going on here:the Xbox One and Playstation 4 share the same architecture as the PC now.
Of course, we might just be treading through known waters (http://techcrunch.com/2006/10/27/gears-of-war-to-push-xbox-360-to-its-max/). I know we are a bit biased, and so is our reader base, but I am curious: do you think MS and Sony have put themselves in a hole with their shortsighted hardware selections?
UPDATE: It would appear that a lot of readers and commentors take our editorial on the state of the PS4 and XB1 as a direct attack on AMD and its APU design. That isn't really the case - regardless of what vendors' hardware is inside the consoles, had Microsoft and Sony still targeted the same performance levels, we would be in the exact same situation. An Intel + NVIDIA hardware combination could just have easily been built to the same peak theoretical compute levels and would have hit the same performance wall just as quickly. MS and Sony could have prevented this by using higher performance hardware, selling the consoles at a loss out the gate and preparing each platform for the next 7-10 years properly. And again, the console manufacturers could have done that with higher end AMD hardware, Intel hardware or NVIDIA hardware. The state of the console performance war is truly hardware agnostic.

[DJR210]

This doesn't matter at all, because, any console player will tell you..graphics mean nothing.

[DJR210]

But of course it has hit a performance wall..the consoles are 400.00 lower tier budget PCs. In fairness, Ubisoft Kiev and with budget components = horrible outcome. Ubisoft Kiev with upper tier CPU and GPU is horrible as well, evident by a GTX 680 minimum. They suck as developers, they built a clunky ass engine that they can't figure out how to make more efficient.

[baseline bum]

But of course it has hit a performance wall..the consoles are 400.00 lower tier budget PCs. In fairness, Ubisoft Kiev and with budget components = horrible outcome. Ubisoft Kiev with upper tier CPU and GPU is horrible as well, evident by a GTX 680 minimum. They suck as developers, they built a clunky ass engine that they can't figure out how to make more efficient.

Short-sighted not to do something like stick a lower end i5 and take a loss on the hardware like they did in the previous generation when that 3 core XBox 360 CPU and the 7 core Cell in the PS3 were really nice processors for the time. Or shit, put a 6350 if an i5 4430 is too much cost. Can't believe you'd make a console without a legit gaming CPU.

[Reck]

Short-sighted not to do something like stick a lower end i5 and take a loss on the hardware like they did in the previous generation when that 3 core XBox 360 CPU and the 7 core Cell in the PS3 were really nice processors for the time. Or shit, put a 6350 if an i5 4430 is too much cost. Can't believe you'd make a console without a legit gaming CPU.

These faggots were more worried about making the consoles more social heavy. Yeah, lets focus on putting facebook and let all the douchebags in there know what I'm up to.

[DJR210]

These faggots were more worried about making the consoles more social heavy. Yeah, lets focus on putting facebook and let all the douchebags in there know what I'm up to.

Battlefield 3 on PC shitting on the console version was the last straw for me. On top of that, the Xbox Live casual-centric features were out of control when I stopped fucking with the 360 in 2012.

ESPN, YouTube, Facebook, 8 different streaming video providers, the music, and all this extra shit they focused on was a sign of the times to come. Trying to hard to replace everything in the living room instead of what it was intended to be used for. They tried to appeal so much to the casuals, now the person who bought a console for the games is stuck with weak 4-5 hundred dollar crap that can't run games the way the developers intended.

[baseline bum]

These faggots were more worried about making the consoles more social heavy. Yeah, lets focus on putting facebook and let all the douchebags in there know what I'm up to.

Television. Television. Television. Watch TV on your XBox One. Program Guide. Television. Television.

[baseline bum]

Battlefield 3 on PC shitting on the console version was the last straw for me. On top of that, the Xbox Live casual-centric features were out of control when I stopped fucking with the 360 in 2012.

ESPN, YouTube, Facebook, 8 different streaming video providers, the music, and all this extra shit they focused on was a sign of the times to come. Trying to hard to replace everything in the living room instead of what it was intended to be used for. They tried to appeal so much to the casuals, now the person who bought a console for the games is stuck with weak 4-5 hundred dollar crap that can't run games the way the developers intended.

XBox 360 was an amazing console. But XBox One, what a piece of shit. Like a 2013 version of the Wii.

[Cry Havoc]

This doesn't matter at all, because, any console player will tell you..graphics mean nothing.

That's why they buy PS4s and X1s. Because graphics don't matter. Oh wait.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, if graphics don't matter why am I paying $400 for a new console?

[baseline bum]

Now if the consoles were $250 I would have gotten one in a second. Or if they were $400 but had really nice hardware like the last generation.

[ElNono]

This generation sucks, tbh... only an ODDE would make them worth the money... eventually, they'll drop to $300 though.

I do hate all crowbarred social bullshit. Microsoft did the same shit with Win8.

If you don't really care that much about the fanciest graphics or net play, money-wise, it still likely the better deal though. Odds are you'll be paying more for your PC initially, and likely will put more money to upgrade it in a 3-4 year timespan.

[Bynumite]

Sony and Microsoft need to let piracy run rampant on their systems with absolutely no repercussions.

That's the only way to save this weak generation of consoles imho. Also free online subscriptions. In fact, they should pay me to play their shitty consoles.

[ElNono]

There's also the possibility that they don't want another 8 year cycle on the hardware, especially when they were losing money on it for the first 3-4 years. They're probably about cutting it even now with the budget hardware, and going to be making money on it in 2 years. That would put the next-gen 4 or 5 years away.

[TDMVPDPOY]

graphics dont mean shit

but goes out buying latest tv and shit

lol wankers

[baseline bum]

There's also the possibility that they don't want another 8 year cycle on the hardware, especially when they were losing money on it for the first 3-4 years. They're probably about cutting it even now with the budget hardware, and going to be making money on it in 2 years. That would put the next-gen 4 or 5 years away.

You think they're only breaking even? An equivalent GPU, the R7 260x, goes for $100 retail. I can't seem to find Jaguar prices, but slightly better quad core Intel Atom CPU's run $37 apiece OEM, so I can't imagine they're paying more than $160 on CPU + GPU. What's the power draw? Maybe 200 watts? Surely the power supply isn't costing them more than $30. Their 5400 RPM 500GB drive probably costs them no more than $40. I doubt the case costs more than $15. Controller sells retail for $50, so it maybe costs them $30 to make. Blue ray drive maybe $35. So that's $310, so they should turn a profit as long as motherboard + cardboard box + shipping totals less than $90.

[baseline bum]

Shit, the RAM probably costs them $60-$70 or so, so you're right Nono, they're probably somewhere around even money or losing $10-$20 each on their consoles.

[ElNono]

According to AllThingsD, the Xbox One costs MS $471 bucks... originally, it was priced $499, so it's basically break even. The $399 doesn't have Kinect, IIRC, so I bet they're breaking even there too.

http://allthingsd.com/20131126/microsofts-xbox-one-cost-90-more-to-build-than-sonys-ps4-teardown-shows/

[DJR210]

Dupe

[DJR210]

Sony and Microsoft need to let piracy run rampant on their systems with absolutely no repercussions.

That's the only way to save this weak generation of consoles imho. Also free online subscriptions. In fact, they should pay me to play their shitty consoles.

Let me know when you wanna build a PC.


There's also the possibility that they don't want another 8 year cycle on the hardware, especially when they were losing money on it for the first 3-4 years. They're probably about cutting it even now with the budget hardware, and going to be making money on it in 2 years. That would put the next-gen 4 or 5 years away.

Uh oh, another 32X for this generation of consoles?


graphics dont mean shit

but goes out buying latest tv and shit

lol wankers

:lol this


Shit, the RAM probably costs them $60-$70 or so, so you're right Nono, they're probably somewhere around even money or losing $10-$20 each on their consoles.

They're both losing money on each console, their plan was to make money on software from the jump. I don't see how the consoles will continue unless they can convince the casuals that a 700.00 console is acceptable.

Might as well build a Steam Box.

[ElNono]

They're both losing money on each console, their plan was to make money on software from the jump. I don't see how the consoles will continue unless they can convince the casuals that a 700.00 console is acceptable.

Might as well build a Steam Box.

The 'make money on software' worked on the previous generations when they didn't support indie games and every game sold was $40-$50 bucks and the economy was doing well. I think part of the reason they skimped on hardware is because that model isn't working now. You have a lot of cheap indie sales (through Live store, etc) cannibalizing the shitty full-price games and they don't get as big a cut on those because the prices are significantly smaller. Plus AAA sales have come down.

I think they're breaking even now, with plans to actually get small revenue in a couple years. It still works for them, all the social media bullshit is great for them to sell advertising and get demographics data they can resell.

They could've done a lot better by designing some novel hardware instead of taking off the shelf shit, that's where consoles normally excelled (and as BB said, the prev gen was pretty good at that, 8 year longevity doesn't lie), but I don't think they want to put the money on R&D right now. The margins aren't quite there.

[Cry Havoc]

They could've done a lot better by designing some novel hardware instead of taking off the shelf shit, that's where consoles normally excelled (and as BB said, the prev gen was pretty good at that, 8 year longevity doesn't lie), but I don't think they want to put the money on R&D right now. The margins aren't quite there.

I think we're already seeing a huge market shift. No one wants to develop/code a game completely differently for Xbox AND PS4 AND PC. It costs too much.

[baseline bum]

I think we're already seeing a huge market shift. No one wants to develop/code a game completely differently for Xbox AND PS4 AND PC. It costs too much.

Is OpenGL that much of a performance bottleneck in comparison to DirectX, Mantle? Seems like you could hit all the consoles, Windows, and Steambox without as much difficulty just building the game from the ground up on OpenGL.

[ElNono]

I don't even think it's that. They rebuild entire catalogs for new platforms all the time (see iOS, Android). These days, you write the engine in C++, and then a thin layer to talk to the hardware (OpenGL/DirectX).

It's just that publishers are scared. A game that tanks, really tanks. They also need to make a huge investment in marketing. Social Media, TV, etc. You can't make it without some serious marketing behind you.

[DJR210]

The 'make money on software' worked on the previous generations when they didn't support indie games and every game sold was $40-$50 bucks and the economy was doing well. I think part of the reason they skimped on hardware is because that model isn't working now. You have a lot of cheap indie sales (through Live store, etc) cannibalizing the shitty full-price games and they don't get as big a cut on those because the prices are significantly smaller. Plus AAA sales have come down.

I think they're breaking even now, with plans to actually get small revenue in a couple years. It still works for them, all the social media bullshit is great for them to sell advertising and get demographics data they can resell.

They could've done a lot better by designing some novel hardware instead of taking off the shelf shit, that's where consoles normally excelled (and as BB said, the prev gen was pretty good at that, 8 year longevity doesn't lie), but I don't think they want to put the money on R&D right now. The margins aren't quite there.

Yeah, gone are the good old days of 360 launching and having better graphics than PC..I remember playing Oblivion and 2k6 and being blown away at that time.

[ElNono]

Yeah, gone are the good old days of 360 launching and having better graphics than PC..I remember playing Oblivion and 2k6 and being blown away at that time.

I don't know if it was much better... the main sell on that was HDR lightning, which you could get on the PC version with a decent graphics card. What the 360 and PS3 benefited the most from was that there was a switch to HDTV at the time. Even 720P looked gorgeous compared to the older gen. There's nothing like that going on now, as 4K won't be around en masse for at least a few more years.

There's a lot of areas where they could've innovated: custom dual GPU package, dedicated physics coprocessor... instead they skimped with the background download processor... adds nothing to actual gaming and it's tailored to impulse buying and "casual".
This is likely what happens when marketing and sales people start making these kind of decisions, tbh...

[DJR210]

I don't know if it was much better... the main sell on that was HDR lightning, which you could get on the PC version with a decent graphics card. What the 360 and PS3 benefited the most from was that there was a switch to HDTV at the time. Even 720P looked gorgeous compared to the older gen. There's nothing like that going on now, as 4K won't be around en masse for at least a few more years.

There's a lot of areas where they could've innovated: custom dual GPU package, dedicated physics coprocessor... instead they skimped with the background download processor... adds nothing to actual gaming and it's tailored to impulse buying and "casual".
This is likely what happens when marketing and sales people start making these kind of decisions, tbh...

In my opinion the consoles need to make their units customizable with optional hardware..keep everyone happy. Those who wish to drop more on hardware can if they choose.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, gone are the good old days of 360 launching and having better graphics than PC..I remember playing Oblivion and 2k6 and being blown away at that time.

God that, should I call it, macro stutter on Oblivion 360 though. :lol

If that was any other game I would have returned it for a refund ASAP and punched the store manager if I couldn't get my $60 back.

[DJR210]

God that, should I call it, macro stutter on Oblivion 360 though. :lol

If that was any other game I would have returned it for a refund ASAP and punched the store manager if I couldn't get my $60 back.

I wasn't as stuck up with graphics then, so I didn't really notice it at first. As I started slaughtering NPC's, and collecting shit for my house it got worse, but then clearing the 360 cache would help.

The PS3 version came out and didn't really stutter much, but for reason they decided to run it at 720p.

[baseline bum]

I wasn't as stuck up with graphics then, so I didn't really notice it at first. As I started slaughtering NPC's, and collecting shit for my house it got worse, but then clearing the 360 cache would help.

The PS3 version came out and didn't really stutter much, but for reason they decided to run it at 720p.

LOL though, as Oblivion and 2k6 were the exact games I bought the day I got my 360. :lol

But how could anyone not notice "Loading..." for 1.5 seconds every 20 seconds or so when you were out in the open world. I thought my 360 was broken or some shit. :lol

[DJR210]

LOL though, as Oblivion and 2k6 were the exact games I bought the day I got my 360. :lol

But how could anyone not notice "Loading..." for 1.5 seconds every 20 seconds or so when you were out in the open world. I thought my 360 was broken or some shit. :lol

Yeah, I remember that shit. Would drive me nuts if that happened on a game today. But det draw distance.. seeing the main city from a mountain top miles away reminded me of Ocarina of Time with much better graphics..

And yeah, those two games were the top choices in my opinion, they were great to show off the new capabilities. I had never even heard of Elder Scrolls at that time.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, I remember that shit. Would drive me nuts if that happened on a game today. But det draw distance.. seeing the main city from a mountain top miles away reminded me of Ocarina of Time with much better graphics..

And yeah, those two games were the top choices in my opinion, they were great to show off the new capabilities. I had never even heard of Elder Scrolls at that time.

LOL, yeah, first shit I did in that game was walk in the direction of Skyrim up in the mountains to get those crazy views of Imperial City. Still love playing this shit on PC now that I don't have to deal with all those pauses. Just wish the leveling system in Oblivion was as good as Skyrim. Still fun to go kill Umbra early on and then no one can fuck with you the rest of the game.

[DJR210]

LOL, yeah, first shit I did in that game was walk in the direction of Skyrim up in the mountains to get those crazy views of Imperial City. Still love playing this shit on PC now that I don't have to deal with all those pauses. Just wish the leveling system in Oblivion was as good as Skyrim. Still fun to go kill Umbra early on and then no one can fuck with you the rest of the game.

I have yet to finish the main storyline on Skyrim to this day. I may go back and download a different combination of mods and give it another go. I love running as an archer with the faster arrows, realistic rag dolls, and increased kill cam mods.. top that off with enhanced blood textures, and more blood and I'm set.

Maybe I'll try a dual wielding swordsman and go for the decaps this time around..

[ElNono]

In my opinion the consoles need to make their units customizable with optional hardware..keep everyone happy. Those who wish to drop more on hardware can if they choose.

They actually need to cut down on the fluff and epic failure that's the Kinect-type of devices, tbh... make it an optional for the children, don't try to shove it down our throats.

[DJR210]

They actually need to cut down on the fluff and epic failure that's the Kinect-type of devices, tbh... make it an optional for the children, don't try to shove it down our throats.

Yeah I agree.

[baseline bum]

They actually need to cut down on the fluff and epic failure that's the Kinect-type of devices, tbh... make it an optional for the children, don't try to shove it down our throats.

Thought XBone did dump that crap. LOL building a gaming system with the intention of its primary use being TV and Netflix.

[baseline bum]

I have yet to finish the main storyline on Skyrim to this day. I may go back and download a different combination of mods and give it another go. I love running as an archer with the faster arrows, realistic rag dolls, and increased kill cam mods.. top that off with enhanced blood textures, and more blood and I'm set.

Maybe I'll try a dual wielding swordsman and go for the decaps this time around..

Skyrim's main storyline is phenomenal. Don't know how anyone could pull themselves away from it, especially with how beautiful the game is.

[ElNono]

Thought XBone did dump that crap. LOL building a gaming system with the intention of its primary use being TV and Netflix.

IIRC, the initial release Xbox One REQUIRED the Kinect (which it included), you couldn't access some functions without it. Then they released a software update that untied it from the system, and now they sell a system $100 cheaper without the Kinect.

[The Reckoning]

Skyrim's main storyline is phenomenal. Don't know how anyone could pull themselves away from it, especially with how beautiful the game is.


especially once you get into the dragonborn dlc. it's a trip.

[Cry Havoc]

hmmm I need to play Skyrim again. :lol

[DJR210]

Skyrim's main storyline is phenomenal. Don't know how anyone could pull themselves away from it, especially with how beautiful the game is. So I went ahead and re-installed.. The main mods I'm going with this time around: Weather and Lighting - Realistic Lighting Overhaul, Minty Lightning Mod, More Rain, Splash of Rain Texture Mods - Apache Sky Hair, Bellyache HD Dragon Replacer, Enhanced Blood, Lush Trees and Grass, Skyrim HD, Static Mesh Improvement Mod, TreesHD, Ultimate HD Fire Effects, WATER ENB - Realvision ENB Misc Mods - Sky UI, SKSE, Dance of Death, Realistic Rag Dolls, The Sounds of Skyrim

[vander]

I don't remember much of Skyrim's main storyline, other than apparently I am descended of dragons therefore it's just my job to kill them, and there was some sort of spiritual world and a talking dragon involved. I liked the Civil war but what I really wanted to do was destroy that elf society who had headquarters up above Solitude, if there was a way to do that I never found it.

[Infinite_limit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvR_3OTxs8A

[DJR210]

PC Master Race FTW

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/44235139007471598/23F2280AF764CD2FF64FD38614BE8E70E9FAADE7/

Det grass:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/44235769677586692/A91E105625B469BB71B314A8539D3E260BC65C54/

[jeebus]

lol grass? I haven't played video games in a couple years but grass wasn't really high on my list of reasons to play a game when I did play. nor was a fire.

[The Reckoning]

lol screenshots of a three year old game as justification

[The Reckoning]

i don't see why pc users keep fallating over graphics and performance. imo the reason to me why pc is better is because you can open multiple windows, play music in the background, and use a keyboard to hot key any and everything.

[jeebus]

i don't see why pc users keep fallating over graphics and performance. imo the reason to me why pc is better is because you can open multiple windows, play music in the background, and use a keyboard to hot key any and everything.
but the grass. what about the grass

[ElNono]

but the grass. what about the grass

I didn't inhale, tbh

[jeebus]

I didn't inhale, tbh
http://i.giphy.com/3rgXBLKe3lGpCR6Kje.gif

[baseline bum]

lol grass? I haven't played video games in a couple years but grass wasn't really high on my list of reasons to play a game when I did play. nor was a fire.

:lmao

[baseline bum]

Personally, I find Crysis 3 to have the most impressive grass in PC gaming.

4_WwYMFS8EM

[baseline bum]

I didn't inhale, tbh

I never exhaled

[DJR210]

:tu bringing up the release date when 3 years later it looks better than supposed "next gen" console crap released last week


i don't see why pc users keep fallating over graphics and performance. imo the reason to me why pc is better is because you can open multiple windows, play music in the background, and use a keyboard to hot key any and everything.

It's simple. Graphics help immerse you into a believable world. If you are a gamer, then how do you not appreciate visuals? If you are a casual gamer, then why do you own a PS4? What significant improvements does it give you over your PS3?

:lol brushing off graphics and performance as irrelevant but dropping 400.00+ on a new system to get better graphics and performance

[DJR210]

Personally, I find Crysis 3 to have the most impressive grass in PC gaming.

4_WwYMFS8EM

No way. It looks nice, but Far Cry 3 has better grass. The best grass IMO is the Grass Fields mod I installed from the screen above.

[baseline bum]

No way. It looks nice, but Far Cry 3 has better grass. The best grass IMO is the Grass Fields mod I installed from the screen above.

If you have an i7 you can ramp the system spec to very high to make Crysis 3 grass sway in the wind tbh

[DJR210]

If you have an i7 you can ramp the system spec to very high to make Crysis 3 grass sway in the wind tbh

:lol, you must not have played the games I mentioned.

Also, it doesn't take an i7 to get dense animated grass. I run Crysis 3 on ultra with an i5. The only setting I need to lower to stay at 60 is anti-aliasing.


lol grass? I haven't played video games in a couple years but grass wasn't really high on my list of reasons to play a game when I did play. nor was a fire.

The grass is one of probably 35 graphic mods I've installed. It combined with the lighting effects really makes certain scenes impressive. You need to see it in action.

[jeebus]

nigs, the grass looks fine. God himself was impressed.

:cry be friends :cry

[baseline bum]

The grass is one of probably 35 graphic mods I've installed. It combined with the lighting effects really makes certain scenes impressive. You need to see it in action.

This is the best Skyrim mod to see in action

qE4cBh1KJb0

[DJR210]

This is the best Skyrim mod to see in action

qE4cBh1KJb0

:lol I'll keep my fapping and Skyrim as seperate activities, thanks though.

[baseline bum]

:lol I'll keep my fapping and Skyrim as seperate activities, thanks though.

But I fap to to the Crysis 3 grass.

[DJR210]

But I fap to to the Crysis 3 grass.

:lol

[Cry Havoc]

:lol brushing off graphics and performance as irrelevant but dropping 400.00+ on a new system to get better graphics and performance

It's funny how this is routinely brought up but never responded to. :lol :lol :lol

Not to mention paying $60 for a game.

[ElNono]

I'll respond:

- You pay $400 because that's where the new games come out
- You don't pay for games

[DJR210]

:lol Damn, two things Nono will never miss an opportunity to defend..Manu, and console peasantry. Anyways, most of the top games are also released on Xbox and PS3, so might as well enjoy those versions seeing as how the graphics don't matter. While we're at it, dust off the old CRT's.

[ElNono]

:lol Damn, two things Nono will never miss an opportunity to defend..Manu, and console peasantry. Anyways, most of the top games are also released on Xbox and PS3, so might as well enjoy those versions seeing as how the graphics don't matter. While we're at it, dust off the old CRT's.

:lol I am... just finished COD: AW, now playing my career on 2k15, and anxiously awaiting for AC:Unity...

I'm not forking $400 for the PS4 until there's an ODDE available.

[ElNono]

:lol and you know I have no problem with PC gaming... it doesn't add up to me particularly, but if it works for other peeps, more power to them...

[The Reckoning]

i don't understand why PC users have to constantly defend their $1000 rig. i just prefer the console community because it's less hardcore. gaming should be a leisure activity, not a sport.

just as a competition. are y'all able to come up with a $400 build that's legal and does more than a ps4 with the same mobility? i see a lot of builds but they never include the price of an OS and other software...

[baseline bum]

i don't understand why PC users have to constantly defend their $1000 rig. i just prefer the console community because it's less hardcore. gaming should be a leisure activity, not a sport.

just as a competition. are y'all able to come up with a $400 build that's legal and does more than a ps4 with the same mobility? i see a lot of builds but they never include the price of an OS and other software...

If the Steambox takes off in 2015 then yes, you will be able to build a legal $400 system that will be much stronger than a PS4, as Linux is free. Right now the $100 for Windows makes that impossible though. You could make the argument that the lower cost of games off Steam could justify the extra $100 spent. One thing you have to factor in though is the PS4 isn't $400. It's $435 because you have to pay tax, which you don't building a computer with parts bought out of state.

[Cry Havoc]

just as a competition. are y'all able to come up with a $400 build that's legal and does more than a ps4 with the same mobility?

I was unaware that carrying your 52" LED TV with you places counted as "mobile".

I'm on a 15" MSI laptop that will run almost any game on high (and laugh at consoles while doing so) and weighs 7 pounds.

Nothing about a console is "portable", but yes, you can make a fragbox that's nearly the same size, AND upgrade-able down the line.

I built this rig 2 years ago for $550.

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/9st6Mp

[Cry Havoc]

If the Steambox takes off in 2015 then yes, you will be able to build a legal $400 system that will be much stronger than a PS4, as Linux is free. Right now the $100 for Windows makes that impossible though. You could make the argument that the lower cost of games off Steam could justify the extra $100 spent. One thing you have to factor in though is the PS4 isn't $400. It's $435 because you have to pay tax, which you don't building a computer with parts bought out of state.

You also have to pay a yearly subscription for online access.

[ElNono]

If the Steambox takes off in 2015 then yes, you will be able to build a legal $400 system that will be much stronger than a PS4, as Linux is free. Right now the $100 for Windows makes that impossible though. You could make the argument that the lower cost of games off Steam could justify the extra $100 spent. One thing you have to factor in though is the PS4 isn't $400. It's $435 because you have to pay tax, which you don't building a computer with parts bought out of state.

Would love a Steambox-style of PC that you just plug and play out of the box, without the Steam subscription. But then I guess you would call it a console?

[baseline bum]

Would love a Steambox-style of PC that you just plug and play out of the box, without the Steam subscription. But then I guess you would call it a console?

I meant the Linux game support so you don't have to pay the $100 Windows tax which is the biggest thing separating gaming PCs from the PS4 when it comes to value for your dollar.

[Cry Havoc]

Would love a Steambox-style of PC that you just plug and play out of the box, without the Steam subscription. But then I guess you would call it a console?

Maybe if the console was open source for development, had humble bundles that promoted indie games for almost no cost for hundreds of hours of gameplay, an open driver system that allowed for compatibility with any USB device or peripheral, would allow you to upgrade it so that you aren't playing games on extremely limited hardware, and had cloud based syncing AND full backwards compatibility with every other console you ever own, sure, then it might be the equal of a PC that you could call a console.

[ElNono]

I meant the Linux game support so you don't have to pay the $100 Windows tax which is the biggest thing separating gaming PCs from the PS4 when it comes to value for your dollar.

I know what you were talking about. It just made me think what would it be the perfect gaming PC for somebody like me.

Convenience (AKA laziness) is a big factor for me. I already loathe the rare occasions when I sit down to play a game and the 360 wants to install a dashboard update.

I think a big selling point of the Steambox is to retain that convenience. Turn it on, goes straight to Steam, play your games. If it needs any driver/opengl/directx updated, it gets taken care for you, nothing external you have to deal with/messing up your gaming experience (anti-virus, the chinese hacker flooding your SMB ports, etc). I wanna turn it on, pick a game and play. I want that out of the box, I don't want to put the time to configure a PC like that. I don't really care for "upgradeable" either if it's only $400 and has a 4+ year lifespan/support. Obviously, needs to have the AAA titles supported, otherwise it's not worth it.

But then I look at that description, and it's really what we call a console these days.

[ElNono]

Maybe if the console was open source for development, had humble bundles that promoted indie games for almost no cost for hundreds of hours of gameplay, an open driver system that allowed for compatibility with any USB device or peripheral, would allow you to upgrade it so that you aren't playing games on extremely limited hardware, and had cloud based syncing AND full backwards compatibility with every other console you ever own, sure, then it might be the equal of a PC that you could call a console.

I don't really care for all that, except having potentially a bigger catalog. I'll just be playing games, not doing work on it.

[NASpurs]

Maybe if the console was open source for development, had humble bundles that promoted indie games for almost no cost for hundreds of hours of gameplay, an open driver system that allowed for compatibility with any USB device or peripheral, would allow you to upgrade it so that you aren't playing games on extremely limited hardware, and had cloud based syncing AND full backwards compatibility with every other console you ever own, sure, then it might be the equal of a PC that you could call a console.

Why is this so serious for you?

[baseline bum]

I know what you were talking about. It just made me think what would it be the perfect gaming PC for somebody like me.

Convenience (AKA laziness) is a big factor for me. I already loathe the rare occasions when I sit down to play a game and the 360 wants to install a dashboard update.

I think a big selling point of the Steambox is to retain that convenience. Turn it on, goes straight to Steam, play your games. If it needs any driver/opengl/directx updated, it gets taken care for you, nothing external you have to deal with/messing up your gaming experience (anti-virus, the chinese hacker flooding your SMB ports, etc). I wanna turn it on, pick a game and play. I want that out of the box, I don't want to put the time to configure a PC like that. I don't really care for "upgradeable" either if it's only $400 and has a 4+ year lifespan/support. Obviously, needs to have the AAA titles supported, otherwise it's not worth it.

But then I look at that description, and it's really what we call a console these days.

Upgradability is the whole point of the Steambox. If I want a just plug it in and play system that I don't need to change anything on for 5-6 years of course I'm getting a PS4.

[ElNono]

Upgradability is the whole point of the Steambox. If I want a just plug it in and play system that I don't need to change anything on for 5-6 years of course I'm getting a PS4.

That's basically the same conclusion I reached. The potentially larger catalog would be tempting though.

[Darius McCrary]

Cool story bro. Wish I was rich enough to buy and upgrade a new computer every year. :tu
If only mom and dad hooked me up that much or I had no other financial obligations but gaming :tu

[jeebus]

Cool story bro. Wish I was rich enough to buy and upgrade a new computer every year. :tu
If only mom and dad hooked me up that much or I had no other financial obligations but gaming :tu
Truth.

If I want to see HD grass and fire, I have to go outside. :cry

[ElNono]

AC Rogue out on the 360... f yeah

[Cry Havoc]

Why is this so serious for you?

I enjoy gaming and enjoy talking about it. Why are you on spurstalk?

[leemajors]

Cool story bro. Wish I was rich enough to buy and upgrade a new computer every year. :tu
If only mom and dad hooked me up that much or I had no other financial obligations but gaming :tu

I don't see how people shell out $60 for games every other month myself, I still play TF2 that I bought 7 years ago, still pretty fun tbh. I haven't upgraded anything on my PC besides the GFX card and more HDD space in 4 years and I can play most games.

[Cry Havoc]

I don't really care for all that, except having potentially a bigger catalog. I'll just be playing games, not doing work on it.

Cheap, well made games are awesome.

Being able to use a kb+m or switch to a controller/wheel/joystick is awesome as well. Not to mention being able to watch an NBA game on the 2nd monitor while you're fragging noobs on the first.

Graphics are obviously a push, you care about them or you don't.

Backwards compatibility -- you don't care about that? Because the Ps3/360 war nearly revolved around it. The 60gb PS3 on release was awesome because it could play Ps2 games as well. You don't see that anymore -- except on PC.

[ElNono]

Cheap, well made games are awesome.

Being able to use a kb+m or switch to a controller/wheel/joystick is awesome as well. Not to mention being able to watch an NBA game on the 2nd monitor while you're fragging noobs on the first.

I play a lot of those "cheap, well made" games on my core 2 duo (although I'll probably upgrade to a i3 or i5 soonish, this machine is from 2009 after all). I'm a big fan of Time Management games (Build a Lot, etc). Those games don't really need a controller, nor a demanding system. I mean, the really good ones end up on consoles anyways, like Plants vs Zombies, The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, etc... I already have the multi-screen setup, tbh... have a sammy 46" with a hopper for the TV, and I use a 26" monitor for the 360/mini.


Graphics are obviously a push, you care about them or you don't.

Backwards compatibility -- you don't care about that? Because the Ps3/360 war nearly revolved around it. The 60gb PS3 on release was awesome because it could play Ps2 games as well. You don't see that anymore -- except on PC.

I play most of the games all the way through, so I'm not a guy that goes back and re-plays too much stuff. I don't do online, so once the main story/missions are done, there's not a lot of replay value for me. The only game I recall playing all the way through twice is Just Cause 2 (all time underrated game). Truth be told, I had a lot more fun writing emulators than actually playing them :lol I do sometimes fire up Super Mario on a Nintendo 64 emu, but that doesn't need a killer system either.

[Darius McCrary]

I don't see how people shell out $60 for games every other month myself, I still play TF2 that I bought 7 years ago, still pretty fun tbh. I haven't upgraded anything on my PC besides the GFX card and more HDD space in 4 years and I can play most games.

I've only bought a handful. Most games I play have come out free on Xbox gold.

[phyzik]

Did not read the thread.

did not have to.

PC wins.

[DMC]

PC games took a huge leap forward when Steam came around. Now you can have all your games on Steam, and buy/download games from them without needing to leave your home. If you're in your mom's basement trying to get your jaw to move so the slop can go down your throat, you need that aspect.