Sorry Kawhi fans, kawhi won't make the All-star this year.. [Archive]

Warlord23

11-04-2014, 07:27 AM

Look, we all want Kawhi to do extremely well and become a superstar, but the shortcomings in his game are easy to see.

- His dribbling is shaky and he is prone to travelling violations. Having him initiate an iso or a pick and roll will lead to more turnovers
- His post game is decent thanks to his size advantage over most players, but he doesn't have the scoring touch inside the paint even if he does back down the defender
- He doesn't have great court awareness yet, and would rather take an off-balance shot when he is in trouble than attempt a difficult pass

IMO he is still not polished enough offensively to be an efficient #1 or even #2 option. His best contribution will still be off the ball, whether cutting to the basket, finishing on the fast break, shooting the open jumper, crashing the offensive boards etc.

The Spurs offense is all about passing, motion and rhythm, but the starting point is most often a pick-and-roll (initiated by Manu or TP) or a high post catch (by Duncan or Diaw). That's why you will see those 4 players continue to make the key decisions on offense.

BG_Spurs_Fan

11-04-2014, 07:43 AM

IMO he is still not polished enough offensively to be an efficient #1 or even #2 option. His best contribution will still be off the ball, whether cutting to the basket, finishing on the fast break, shooting the open jumper, crashing the offensive boards etc.

The Spurs offense is all about passing, motion and rhythm, but the starting point is most often a pick-and-roll (initiated by Manu or TP) or a high post catch (by Duncan or Diaw). That's why you will see those 4 players continue to make the key decisions on offense.

This is all very true but I imagine Pop would try to incorporate more TP-Kawhi PnRs to start the season, especially with Tiago on the bench/injured. Having Bonner or Diaw there to spread the defense and provide spacing would do wonders for improving Kawhi's overall offensive impact. Otherwise, as you said, he'd be no more than 3rd option in any possible line-up until his dribbling and awareness improve dramatically.

exstatic

11-04-2014, 07:48 AM

Hoy crap grow up and quit being so obsessed. How old are you? 10?

apalisoc_9

Brazil

11-04-2014, 08:46 AM

Who gives a shit if he makes the ASG or not...

What matters is championship, dude delivered on the highest stage of a championship final, he will get paid ASG or not

not sure why OP fucking care about mpg, raw stats and ASG appearances... Spurs don't give a fuck, he hold mpg of all the roster for years (see Manu) now suddenly he should manage his players like Thib or Brooks ? gtfo

diego

11-04-2014, 09:12 AM

Kawhi is one of the greatest Finals performers of all-time, tbh..that means more than meaningless, raw numbers..

Except hes not. In fact he is one of the weakest fmvp ever. :lol 17.8 / 6.4 and " holding" lebron to
28.2 and 7.8.

Kool Bob Love

11-04-2014, 09:15 AM

seriously though, who is running OP's account? :lol

Canadianheat. Turn his back on Lebron so he'll ride KL's tip for now.

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 09:17 AM

Except hes not. In fact he is one of the weakest fmvp ever. :lol 17.8 / 6.4 and " holding" lebron to
28.2 and 7.8.

Weakest lol. Fuck outta here. Lol most of lebrons points were scored when they were up 20 already. Lol raw stats.

dabom

11-04-2014, 09:20 AM

19 turnovers 20 assist

diego

11-04-2014, 09:43 AM

Weakest lol. Fuck outta here. Lol most of lebrons points were scored when they were up 20 already. Lol raw stats.

OK name two weaker finals MVPs

Brazil

11-04-2014, 09:51 AM

OK name two weaker finals MVPs

in before Parker 2007

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 09:53 AM

OK name two weaker finals MVPs

DWade, Kobe, Parker. Sorry nigga Brazil tleast you were in before my dick

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 09:54 AM

And that one name that keeps on getting thrown around from the ancient days dont remember

Splits

11-04-2014, 09:57 AM

Cedric Maxwell...

Also, Billups, Dumars

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 10:04 AM

Cedric Maxwell...

Also, Billups, Dumars

That maxwell dude. Could argue for chauncey too, sheed and rip could have won it aswell iirc

Brazil

11-04-2014, 10:08 AM

And that one name that keeps on getting thrown around from the ancient days dont remember

:tu

I have no problem with that take tbh

in 2007, Duncan should have won it anyway like by the way in 2014 but thing is Duncan does not give a shit, like he does not give a shit about ASG presence

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 10:13 AM

:tu

I have no problem with that take tbh

in 2007, Duncan should have won it anyway like by the way in 2014 but thing is Duncan does not give a shit, like he does not give a shit about ASG presence

Its just that we really werent afraid or supposed to lose in 07 tbh. For all we care if oberto played great the whole series he coulda won fmvp since that team didnt have any business being in the finals. I kinda disagree with 2014, if there was a playoffs mvp (which I think is a very good award to make) it would be Tim. But the finals was a tossup between a lot of players and they gave it to the person who really shined the most and unlike in 07, we were facing the b2b champs.

Brazil

11-04-2014, 12:31 PM

Its just that we really werent afraid or supposed to lose in 07 tbh. For all we care if oberto played great the whole series he coulda won fmvp since that team didnt have any business being in the finals. I kinda disagree with 2014, if there was a playoffs mvp (which I think is a very good award to make) it would be Tim. But the finals was a tossup between a lot of players and they gave it to the person who really shined the most and unlike in 07, we were facing the b2b champs.

Because it has been a toss up between let's say tim, kawhi and manu I would have given it to Tim who is with no contest the playoff mvp

FireMicoHalili

11-04-2014, 01:45 PM

Is kawhi banging you tbh?
is kawhi banging him to be honest? what?

FireMicoHalili

11-04-2014, 01:46 PM

it's established that Kawhi's finals numbers weren't a fluke? Or is that still a point of contention? I mean the guy did come through when you needed him to. All you could ever ask for in a player.

daslicer

11-04-2014, 02:44 PM

it's established that Kawhi's finals numbers weren't a fluke? Or is that still a point of contention? I mean the guy did come through when you needed him to. All you could ever ask for in a player.

The problem is that a lot of fans think Kawhi is a superstar when he isn't close to being one. The truth is Kawhi is slightly above average player that is capable of getting you around 12-16 points a game, good rebounder along with being pretty good defensively. Kawhi had 3 great games in the finals but that is no reason to give him a max player designation. He's never had a dominant playoff run like Duncan had in his prime or even Tony Parker. I know the Kawhi supporters will scream that that this is only the case because he's always been the third or fourth option but we also don't know if he would step up to the plate consistently as a number 1 or 2 option. Historically the playoffs are filled with guys getting hot for a series or two that look like superstars. Jaren Jackson looked like an all-star back in 99 during the Lakers series. Fisher looked great against the spurs in the '01 sweep but clearly he wasn't a great player just a guy who got hot at the right time.

Just asses Kawhi's playoff run from last year. He had moments where he looked good and moments where he was invisible. In the first round against Dallas he was sub par. Against the Blazers he was great. Against the Thunder the first two games he was good and then the next two games he struggled. Even against the Heat the first two games he was terrible but the next 3 games he was on fire. Kawhi hasn't proven to me that he's consistent enough to get the max but unfortunately there will be teams that will throw it at him during FA.

Malik Hairston

11-04-2014, 03:16 PM

Chomag

11-04-2014, 03:18 PM

Good. Gives his agent less leverage when we he seeks contracts from other teams in the open market.
So you want KL to be lowballed? Does hes deserve it?

Malik Hairston

11-04-2014, 03:21 PM

Klay Thompson and Chandler Parsons have both been colossal chokers in the playoffs, especially Thompson, yet there are Spurs fans that don't want to pay a player that has proven to elevate his game to new levels in the playoffs:lol..

Players that elevate their games in the playoffs are rare, we're fortunate that Leonard has proven that the pressure and more thorough game-planning doesn't affect him, at all..

Chomag

11-04-2014, 03:29 PM

His points are very low because he plays with the 1st unit mostly and he is pretty ignored in the offence, Thankfully KL does not need to dominant the ball to be effective.

benstanfield

11-04-2014, 03:56 PM

Of course not, how the fuck is he gonna get voted ahead of Kobe, KD, and Jeremy Lin?

Brazil

11-04-2014, 04:00 PM

bottom line playing the ASG or not, dude, in today's market, deserves the max extension and will likely get it

look_at_g_shred

11-04-2014, 04:20 PM

seriously though, who is running OP's account? :lol
The second poster in this thread.

dabom

11-04-2014, 04:21 PM

Only in ST is a guy crucified for wanting more fucking minutes. Lol Especially when he actually deserves in and we Nt HV bakP sf

KL2

11-04-2014, 05:00 PM

Spurs fans should be begging for that all star appearance, he'll finally get the respect of the refs, he can just bowl everyone over in the lane (he has the size to do so) like WB and draw fouls all day long. We all know stars get treated differently than your average role player.

daslicer

11-04-2014, 05:12 PM

^^ This is silly, tbh..

Back-to-back playoff runs with a 19 PER and was #1 in both playoff runs for the Spurs in advanced on/off metrics..

Those are rare feats for any player in today's league, calling him a "slightly above average player" is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this forum, tbh(not surprised coming from that poster, though)..

Per is a good stat indicator but doesn't always tell hundred percent of the story behind a player. Going by your logic Chris Paul,Barkley,Wade, Neil Johnston,Pettit are all better players than Tim Duncan career wise since their career PER averages are higher. Yes I believe Kawhi is an above average player and I will stick to that until he proves me wrong. Answer the question was I wrong with my assessment when I said he's 12-16 point scorer, good re bounder, and defensive player? I really do hope to eat some crow but I'm not convinced he will be able to carry this team once the big 3 is retired. In my eyes his ceiling is a being great number 2 guy on a team. Do you honestly believe he's a max player that can lead a team to the playoffs as the number 1 guy?

KL2

11-04-2014, 05:25 PM

Per is a good stat indicator but doesn't always tell hundred percent of the story behind a player. Going by your logic Chris Paul,Barkley,Wade, Neil Johnston,Pettit are all better players than Tim Duncan career wise since their career PER averages are higher. Yes I believe Kawhi is an above average player and I will stick to that until he proves me wrong. Answer the question was I wrong with my assessment when I said he's 12-16 point scorer, good re bounder, and defensive player? I really do hope to eat some crow but I'm not convinced he will be able to carry this team once the big 3 is retired. In my eyes his ceiling is a being great number 2 guy on a team. Do you honestly believe he's a max player that can lead a team to the playoffs as the number 1 guy?

He's always been a 15ppg player, it's around his career average, and would've been higher if hasn't been so injury prone these few seasons (luckily nothing serious) and if he played more than 30mpg. 15ppg, now that's primarily off of his defense, fast breaks, corner 3's, and the few post ups he gets, mostly things he has to create for himself.

Now imagine if they added plays for him, ran him off multiple screens freeing him up like they do Parker all game long, exposing the constant mismatches further developing his already good post game, actually getting him into a rhythm instead of him just touching the ball every 3 minutes or so, giving him those extra mins, and not under 30.

This guy could easily be a 20+ppg scorer, he's always played fantastic when the big 3 were out or when they played like shit like Manu/TP did in 2013.

People act like Pop threw Parker out there and he was already developed, when in reality it took him YEARS just to develop a single offensive move other than a floater/layup. Players need time they need experience, Pop isn't giving it to Leonard, 29 mpg last year as the 4th option.

Leonard can get SO much better from here, this is just the beginning. It's up to his coach/team to bring it out.

Ghjkll

11-04-2014, 05:33 PM

Leonard is becoming a bit overrated. He is a very good young player, but far away to even being considered an All-Star. In the playoffs, Kawhi posted this averages: 14.3 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.7 asst, 1.7 steals and 0.6 blks, with a TS of .606 and 18.7 PER. To make a comparison, an old shooting guard from the same team, posted this averages in the playoffs: 14.3 points, 3.3 rebounds, 4.1 assts and 1.6 steals, with a TS of .593 and 20.3 PER. In the finals, he had a great explosion and played amazing, but let´s not overreact. Let´s wait before he can even outperform a 36 years old shooting guard from his own team and considered merely a role player at this stage of his career, before crowning him as the next great thing. Kawhi still has a couple of serious flaws about his game and it´s doubtfull he can turn himself a franchise player in the future, let alone a one around whom you can build a winning team. Just my two cents.

manufan10

11-04-2014, 06:49 PM

seriously though, who is running OP's account? :lol
timvp

:cry it still hurts :cry

:lol

diego

11-04-2014, 07:33 PM

^^ This is silly, tbh..

Back-to-back playoff runs with a 19 PER and was #1 in both playoff runs for the Spurs in advanced on/off metrics..

Those are rare feats for any player in today's league, calling him a "slightly above average player" is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this forum, tbh(not surprised coming from that poster, though)..

what on/off metrics? Only stats Ive seen that kawhi lead the team in last year advanced or otherwise are steals per game and DWS, Manu had the highest plus minus for the spurs in the PO (and finals) this year. Leonard is good, but idiots like apasiloc are terribly overrating him. Ill also add that playing less than 30 mpg and coming off the bench didnt stop manu from making all star games and all nba teams.

and :lol wade, kobe, and even parker compared to leonard in 14. rank these players' finals series:

34.7 pts, 7.8 reb, 3.8 ast, 2.7 stl, 1 blk
17.7 pts, 9.5 reb, 2.8 ast, .2 stl 1 blk
32.4 pts, 5.6 reb, 7.4 ast, 1.4 stl 1.4 blk
24.5 pts, 5 reb, 3.3 ast, .8 stl 0 blk
17.8 pts, 6.4 reb, 2 ast, 1.6 stl, 1.2 blk
28.6 pts, 8.0 reb, 3.9 ast, 2.1 stl, .7 blk

dabom

11-04-2014, 07:38 PM

Manu is not going to fucking guard lebron or play 40 fucking minutes. Lets not act like the offense revolves around kawhi either.

diego

11-04-2014, 07:49 PM

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 08:05 PM

Hey diego I just named more than 2 fmvps that are weaker than Whiwhi. I just woke up from last nigt and still I havent recieved your response... :lol

KL2

11-04-2014, 08:45 PM

when did leonard play 40 minutes? was he the only spur who guarded lebron? Are we really going to continue this narrative that lebron had a bad series against us? It was the rest of the heat that fell apart, not lebron. If anyone was a huge defensive difference maker in that series it was green shutting down wade.

Leonard on Lebron was huge, especially considering Lebron was THE GUY on that team, the main offensive weapon getting touch after touch. He didn't allow Lebron to get in a rhythm, everything was contested, everything Lebron got was difficult, even shots he usually takes he didn't because they'd be too difficult, effectively eliminating MANY scoring opportunities. Spurs didn't have to break their defense doubling him either, that alone was fucking huge.

wildchild

11-04-2014, 10:04 PM

was he the only spur who guarded lebron?
No, but Lebron scored the most of his point when Leonard wasn't defending him.

Kawhi was the guy who guarded Lebron better than the others.
http://i.imgur.com/cufd9tql.jpg

100%duncan

11-04-2014, 10:16 PM

No, but Lebron scored the most of his point when Leonard wasn't defending him.

Kawhi was the guy who guarded Lebron better than the others.
http://i.imgur.com/cufd9tql.jpg

Bbbbut he average 28 points!!!! :cry

SanDiegoSpursFan

11-04-2014, 10:31 PM

As long as he makes another all-defensive team, preferably 1st team it doesn't really matter. He'd be on the inside track for the award for the next 5 years.

wildchild

11-04-2014, 10:45 PM

Against the Thunder the first two games he was good and then the next two games he struggled.
Like all team in those two games.
So the Spurs played only four games against the Thunder last playoffs...I think the games were six, Leonard's defense changed the game 5 and his game 6 was pretty good 17 points 11 rebounds 4 ast and 1 steal which was worth the series.

wildchild

11-04-2014, 10:57 PM

Leonard is becoming a bit overrated. He is a very good young player, but far away to even being considered an All-Star

If a player averaged only 14.7 points in his NBA career (regular season 14.7 ppg playoffs 15.4 ppg) he can be considered an All-Star?

Let´s wait before he can even outperform a 36 years old shooting guard from his own team...
2013 Finals Leonard>>>>Manu

Uriel

11-04-2014, 11:59 PM

So you want KL to be lowballed? Does hes deserve it?
I want what's best for the team. And what's best for the team is for players to take less money than what they can get in the open market so the front office has more money to sign better players.

unforeseen

11-05-2014, 01:40 AM

:bobo MAX player.

daslicer

11-05-2014, 02:18 AM

Interesting debate in this thread. I get the vibe there is a lot of spur fans that are hoping that Kawhi can be a superstar while there are others who don't believe he can reach that level. I don't feel Kawhi is a max player in the sense that he can be a franchise player that can carry your team to the playoffs as the number 1 option. I know some will argue that he's only the third or fourth option on offense or that he's not getting over 30 plus minutes. Even with that being said its still not a given Kawhi can be a 20 point scorer even with those restrictions lifted. Nobody knows how Kawhi will react to team defenses gearing to stop him if he is the number 1 option on offense. You can also make an argument that he has also benefited at times by not being the number 1 focus of opposing defenses. There is no doubt that Kawhi will get the max on the open market due to guys like Hayward, Parsons, Kemba Walker getting overpaid.

One thing I would like to ask the OP what do you believe is Kawhi's ceiling is career wise? Do you believe he can be a 20+ scorer if given the chance. Should the spurs make him the number 1 option on offense?

mkurts

11-05-2014, 02:58 AM

I want what's best for the team. And what's best for the team is for players to take less money than what they can get in the open market so the front office has more money to sign better players.

That pretty much sums it up. But Kawhi fanatics want him to get the max at any cost, Kobe-wise which is deeply disturbing to say the least ...

PingPong

11-05-2014, 08:55 AM

LOL @ people thinking that FMVP means shit.

Jimcs50

11-05-2014, 02:15 PM

At this stage, Trevor Ariza is a lock to be the starter

Jimcs50

11-05-2014, 02:19 PM

:bobo MAX player.

Who the fuck is that girl in your sig??? She is smoking hot.:eyebrows

TheGreatYacht

11-05-2014, 11:46 PM

- not going to get the same amount of minutes as his rivals..

- not as much offensive freedom..

30mpg won't get you anywhere...

Thinking about it now, kawhi has sacrificed the most in terms of touches just to get the team rolling...Its funny how all of a sudden he is better than a certain player come WCF and Finals time...Hmm
I'm guessing you'd drink his bath water, with all the 30 threads you've started about the same topic

unforeseen

11-06-2014, 12:34 AM

Who the fuck is that girl in your sig??? She is smoking hot.:eyebrows

I wish I knew. Maybe someone here will recognize her. ;)

MI21

11-06-2014, 01:36 AM

:lol @ Spurs fans arguing about Leonard after his performances in the last 2 NBA FINALS

It's one thing to put up stats against Boston in mid-November - it's another to perform under intense pressure against the best teams in the league. Some of you are fucking blind. I'm not sure Kawhi will ever average more than 16-18PPG over an entire season, but I do know he can be the best player on the court when shit matters.

TheGreatYacht

11-06-2014, 10:52 PM

Hoops Czar

11-06-2014, 10:53 PM

Well, to make the All-Star team, you have to be an All-Star or popular. Kawhi's neither.

daslicer

11-06-2014, 10:58 PM

Well, to make the All-Star team, you have to be an All-Star or popular. Kawhi's neither.

But he's the Finals MVP :lol

wildchild

11-06-2014, 11:58 PM

Well, to make the All-Star team, you have to be an All-Star or popular. Kawhi's neither.

But he's the Finals MVP :lol

As Spurs fans we should be concerned if he can't reach that level, instead happy like you guys.

Leonard playing at an all star level -like game 5 and 6 WCF and game 3, 5, 6 in the Finals- was the reason the Spurs have been able to win again.
We find the guy who can play on both ends against Lebron and Durant and we won, the Spurs would have not won those series without Kawhi...
So you better pray he gets his form again.

Hoops Czar

11-07-2014, 12:18 AM

As Spurs fans we should be concerned if he can't reach that level, instead happy like you guys.

Leonard playing at an all star level -like game 5 and 6 WCF and game 3, 5, 6 in the Finals- was the reason the Spurs have been able to win again.
We find the guy who can play on both ends against Lebron and Durant and we won, the Spurs wouldn't win those series without Kawhi...
So you better pray he gets his form again.

Don't be obtuse. Who's laughing? Do you think people are taking pleasure in watching Leonard fail? He's shown flashes of all-star ability but, not consistently enough to move the needle. When the Spurs get finished paying off Leonard and Green this offseason, nobody's going to be laughing. I'm tired of hearing how it's everybody else's fault why Kawhi isn't thriving. "Pop's not running plays for him", "TP isn't looking in Leonard's direction", "He's not getting enough touches to be effective", etc. Leonard stand in the corner waiting for a pass. If he has the bal in his hands, he takes two dribbles and passes it. If he shoots it, he'll settle for jumpers instead of using his athleticism to get to the rim.

dabom

11-07-2014, 12:35 AM

2 games back from no preseason and people thinks that's how he plays all the time. I guess they missed his entire playoff performances since his rookie year.

daslicer

11-07-2014, 12:39 AM

As Spurs fans we should be concerned if he can't reach that level, instead happy like you guys.

I have been a spursfan for 20 year so I don't take joy in seeing Kawhi struggle but I will laugh at his retarded fan base because they are not spur fans. The Kawhi fanatics as I call them are a delusional bunch that I have no respect for. I have the same views as Hoops Czar on Kawhi which is its time to stop making excuses for his failures to be a star. If he clearly was a star he would find a way show it on the court consistently which he doesn't do. Paker and Manu struggled to be consistent players their first few years within the spurs system but eventually by years 3 and 4 they broke out and starting consistently playing at a high level. This is Kawhi's 4th year with the spurs if he can't breakthrough this year its never going to happen.

TBH Kawhi strikes me a player in the same type of mold as Andre Iguodala. Just like Iguodala he doesn't have the aggressive nature to be a consistent scorer every game. I remember George Karl tried to make Iguodala into a 20 point scorer by telling him to take 20 shots a game and Iguodala replied "Its not in my nature to take that many shots its not who I'am". I just have a feeling Kawhi is the same way.

hater

11-07-2014, 12:49 AM

Only true spurs fans will realize this team can only go as far as MVParker takes it.

mark my words. MvParker has a good season and good post season ILOVE OUR CHANCES

wildchild

11-07-2014, 12:51 AM

Don't be obtuse. Who's laughing? Do you think people are taking pleasure in watching Leonard fail?
Yes.
"I'm actually grateful for nights like these"..."But he's the Finals MVP :lol " ...

He's shown flashes of all-star ability but, not consistently enough to move the needle. When the Spurs get finished paying off Leonard and Green this offseason, nobody's going to be laughing. I'm tired of hearing how it's everybody else's fault why Kawhi isn't thriving. "Pop's not running plays for him", "TP isn't looking in Leonard's direction", "He's not getting enough touches to be effective", etc. Leonard stand in the corner waiting for a pass. If he has the bal in his hands, he takes two dribbles and passes it. If he shoots it, he'll settle for jumpers instead of using his athleticism to get to the rim.
You are the guy who said Leonard is similar Bruce, right?
Leonard was the 2nd most effective post up player in the league last season, he receives the ball in the post? no. He runs -at least once- the pick and roll? no. How you think the Spurs are developing his offensive game?

Hoops Czar

11-07-2014, 01:15 AM

Yes.
"I'm actually grateful for nights like these"..."But he's the Finals MVP :lol " ...

You are the guy who said Leonard is similar Bruce, right?
Leonard was the 2nd most effective post up player in the league last season, he receives the ball in the post? no. He runs -at least once- the pick and roll? no. How you think the Spurs are developing his offensive game?

Does he have enough touches to qualify for being 2nd most effective post up player in the league? Are you doubting the leagues greatest coaching staff? The 2nd greatest coach of all time? Are you saying they're incompetent? Maybe, just maybe the Spurs coaching staff has a behind the scenes view of Leonard that isn't as appealing to the naked eye. Pop isn't into holding hands. If Leonard wants to show the coaching staff that he deserves more of an opportunity on the offensive end, he needs to take it upon himself to be more assertive and aggressive when he does have the ball by shooting it or taking it strong to the basket. His value right now is strictly on the defensive end. Oh, and his defense tonight was far less than stellar.

wildchild

11-07-2014, 01:15 AM

I have been a spursfan for 20 year so I don't take joy in seeing Kawhi struggle but I will laugh at his retarded fan base because they are not spur fans. The Kawhi fanatics as I call them are a delusional bunch that I have no respect for.
I'm Spurs fan since I was born but I don't call retarded or disrespect any new Spurs fan. Instead, I celebrate that Leonard attracted new guys because a small market team like the Spurs need new fans to expand.

If he clearly was a star he would find a way show it on the court consistently which he doesn't do. Paker and Manu struggled to be consistent players their first few years within the spurs system but eventually by years 3 and 4 they broke out and starting consistently playing at a high level.
How can compare Tony and Manu in their fourth year (2006)? Pop called a lot of plays for them and they didn't have a Big 3 above them like Leonard has now.

TBH Kawhi strikes me a player in the same type of mold as Andre Iguodala. Just like Iguodala he doesn't have the aggressive nature to be a consistent scorer every game. I remember George Karl tried to make Iguodala into a 20 point scorer by telling him to take 20 shots a game and Iguodala replied "Its not in my nature to take that many shots its not who I'am". I just have a feeling Kawhi is the same way.
Leonard said he wants to be that guy, it's not the same situation.

wildchild

11-07-2014, 01:28 AM

Does he have enough touches to qualify for being 2nd most effective post up player in the league?
Since when a player needs a lot of touches for those post up stats? A minimum required doesn't mean get enough touches on a team.

Are you doubting the leagues greatest coaching staff? The 2nd greatest coach of all time? Are you saying they're incompetent? Maybe, just maybe the Spurs coaching staff has a behind the scenes view of Leonard that isn't as appealing to the naked eye. Pop isn't into holding hands. If Leonard wants to show the coaching staff that he deserves more of an opportunity on the offensive end, he needs to take it upon himself to be more assertive and aggressive when he does have the ball by shooting it or taking it strong to the basket.
He didn't show that in two last playoffs? He didn't prove he can be aggressive and effective if he can have more playing time?? And the team run the same way, again.

His value right now is strictly on the defensive end
Right now? When? After his third game? Sure, three games and he forgot his game...Who's the "obtuse" now?

Hoops Czar

11-07-2014, 01:58 AM

Since when a player needs a lot of touches for those post up stats? A minimum required doesn't mean get enough touches on a team.

He didn't show that in two last playoffs? He didn't prove he can be aggressive and effective if he can have more playing time?? And the team run the same way, again.

Right now? When? After his third game? Sure, three games and he forgot his game...Who's the "obtuse" now?

Nope. He's not going to be as bad as he's looked in his first three games. However, he has a long way to go before he has the right to be talking max contract with the Spurs. A max player has the ability to carry his team to victory night in and night out. I don't see that trait in Leonard thus far. You can hide behind those finals appearances for only so long. When Duncan and Ginobili retire and Max Leonard is double teamed on every possession, what happens then. More importantly, just how screwed will the Spurs be?

unforeseen

11-07-2014, 02:23 AM

"Max Player" doing work this season.

33% FG%
20% 3P%

dg7md

11-07-2014, 02:27 AM

He will never have a slick offensive game. He is an amazing defender but as I've said before, his offense is very one dimensional most of the time.

sook

11-07-2014, 02:31 AM

he pissed me off this game letting those shitty rockets play it all up like that.

wildchild

11-07-2014, 02:58 AM

A max player has the ability to carry his team to victory night in and night out.
Parsons doesn't carry his team every night and the market said he's a max player.
You are not talking about max players, you talk about superstars. Lebron, Durant, Duncan/Kobe in their prime are those type of players who can win a game alone.

When Duncan and Ginobili retire and Max Leonard is double teamed on every possession, what happens then. More importantly, just how screwed will the Spurs be?
What happens?
a-If the Spurs developed his game, we'll watch an all around offensive player in action.
He has a nice mid-jump and strong post-up game, he has developed a fadeaway but he needs to work those things.

b-If the Spurs thought he'll turn into star magically in only one day -the next day post Duncan era- and didn't want to spend the regular season to increase his role, we'll watch a guy who can get a few opportunistic buckets or some 3's.

Malik Hairston

11-07-2014, 02:59 AM

:lol it's fucking November, damn..every single year, 90% of NBA fans overanalyze the first 2 months of the season, tbh..

These games are completely meaningless, the players have barely warmed up, some of them aren't even awake yet..

Malik Hairston

11-07-2014, 03:06 AM

FYI, Leonard's last 2 games without the big 3, prior to tonight:

vs. a fully healthy Golden State team last year: 21 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists and a Win
vs. Bulls with everybody but Rose: 26 points, 4 rebounds and a W

What does it mean? absolutely nothing, they are meaningless regular season games + a miniscule sample size..

The nigga missed most of preseason and has barely touched the ball since returning to the lineup..only Spurs fans would question the fucking Finals MVP:lol..

wildchild

11-07-2014, 03:18 AM

Only true spurs fans will realize this team can only go as far as MVParker takes it.

Don't get me wrong, I really want to watch Tony playing at his peak, but this team won the WCF and the Finals without MVParker...

Hoops Czar

11-07-2014, 04:06 AM

Parsons doesn't carry his team every night and the market said he's a max player.
You are not talking about max players, you talk about superstars. Lebron, Durant, Duncan/Kobe in their prime are those type of players who can win a game alone.

So another teams wrong makes a right? Dallas isn't a small market team and they have an owner willing to press up against the cap and beyond. The Spurs don't function that way. They want a contract equal to the production on the court. The Spurs don't just hand out max deals. In many aspects, the RJ trade set them back light years. The FO is more frugal than ever in terms of spending. They'd rather pay some foreign dude pennies on the dollar for cheap labor than overpay an American to do the same job, only better. Parson's is the anti-Leonard. He has the ability to win games with his offense but, conversely has the ability to drag the team down with his defense. It would be unreasonable to expect Leonard to be a superstar, but not an all-star.

What happens?
a-If the Spurs developed his game, we'll watch an all around offensive player in action.
He has a nice mid-jump and strong post-up game, he has developed a fadeaway but he needs to work those things.

b-If the Spurs thought he'll turn into star magically in only one day -the next day post Duncan era- and didn't want to spend the regular season to increase his role, we'll watch a guy who can get a few opportunistic buckets or some 3's.

You keep repeating yourself. "If the Spurs..." No, if Kawhi develops his game. The balls in Leonard's court. He's the one who needs to take the initiative to take that next step in the learning curve. The Spurs can assist him but it's ultimately going to be up to Leonard. Tiago went through the same exact thing his first couple of seasons.

wildchild

11-07-2014, 04:37 AM

So another teams wrong makes a right?
It doesn't matter if you like or not, I've mentioned who are max player in the league.

You keep repeating yourself. "If the Spurs..." No, if Kawhi develops his game. The balls in Leonard's court He's the one who needs to take the initiative to take that next step in the learning curve. The Spurs can assist him but it's ultimately going to be up to Leonard.

And how do you think a team "assist" a player to improve? Putting him in position to succeed.
There are no miraculous recipes, just more playing time and more the ball in his hands.