Greatest holiday in the world for the greatest country in the history of the universe

[Splits]

How will you spend your Veterans Day honoring the FREEDOM that the TROOPS give you as an inalienable right? How will you honor the brave men and women that sacrifice so much to allow you to participate on SpursTalk, which you would otherwise not be able to do if we didn't spend $650 billion a year?

http://i.imgur.com/1gJ5VQZ.gif

[lefty]

:lol

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

:lol

[200 miles]

How will you spend your Veterans Day honoring the FREEDOM that the TROOPS give you as an inalienable right? How will you honor the brave men and women that sacrifice so much to allow you to participate on SpursTalk, which you would otherwise not be able to do if we didn't spend $650 billion a year?

http://i.imgur.com/1gJ5VQZ.gif

650 mil? Is that right? Hmm. I thought it was slightly more than that, say in the neighborhood of 3/4 billion?

[Splits]

^ get your b's and m's straight

[midnightpulp]

How will you spend your Veterans Day honoring the FREEDOM that the TROOPS give you as an inalienable right? How will you honor the brave men and women that sacrifice so much to allow you to participate on SpursTalk, which you would otherwise not be able to do if we didn't spend $650 billion a year?

http://i.imgur.com/1gJ5VQZ.gif

I used to be a hardcore dove that wanted to slash defense spending by at least 50% or more.

But the unfortunate truth is were are basically the defacto national defense for many of our allies. I know this might sound like simplistic, "conservatard" reasoning, but we'd alienate many of our allies in the Western World if we closed up shop and went home.

Also, a US led global hegemony has worked out pretty well. Statistically speaking, this is the most peaceful time in human history. When Europe was in charge, more blood spilled on their lands than rain.

[200 miles]

^ get your b's and m's straight

I'll be sure to do that. Thanks.

[lefty]

I used to be a hardcore dove that wanted to slash defense spending by at least 50% or more.

But the unfortunate truth is were are basically the defacto national defense for many of our allies. I know this might sound like simplistic, "conservatard" reasoning, but we'd alienate many of our allies in the Western World if we closed up shop and went home.

Also, a US led global hegemony has worked out pretty well. Statistically speaking, this is the most peaceful time in human history. When Europe was in charge, more blood spilled on their lands than rain.

And that's coming from someone who firmly believe CP3 is the greatest closer post MJ

[Splits]

I used to be a hardcore dove that wanted to slash defense spending by at least 50% or more.

But the unfortunate truth is were are basically the defacto national defense for many of our allies. I know this might sound like simplistic, "conservatard" reasoning, but we'd alienate many of our allies in the Western World if we closed up shop and went home.

Also, a US led global hegemony has worked out pretty well. Statistically speaking, this is the most peaceful time in human history. When Europe was in charge, more blood spilled on their lands than rain.

That had to be the worst take I've ever read from you. Our country is bankrupt because 1 out of every 5 $$ goes to military while our "allies" spend their money making sure their people don't suffer from poverty, homelessness, malnutrition, or lack of health care. We subsidize the entire western world with "security" while our own people suffer. It's not "dovish" to spend a reasonable amount of taxpayer dollars to ensure a foreign military can't invade your borders, which should cost no more than a 1/4 of the current military budget. Instead, we choose to waste our money being the world's police while our "allies" make sure all of their citizens are taken care of.

[Splits]

And that's coming from someone who firmly believe CP3 is the greatest closer post MJ

:lmao www.truthbombs.gov

[midnightpulp]

That had to be the worst take I've ever read from you. Our country is bankrupt because 1 out of every 5 $$ goes to military while our "allies" spend their money making sure their people don't suffer from poverty, homelessness, malnutrition, or lack of health care. We subsidize the entire western world with "security" while our own people suffer. It's not "dovish" to spend a reasonable amount of taxpayer dollars to ensure a foreign military can't invade your borders, which should cost no more than a 1/4 of the current military budget. Instead, we choose to waste our money being the world's police while our "allies" make sure all of their citizens are taken care of.

Have you looked at any of the relevant statistics?

Our "out of control" defense spending is only 1 to 2% higher (relative to GDP) than many of those "progressive" European countries that supposedly feed and educate their populace where we do not.


Making sure their people don't suffer from poverty

http://b-i.forbesimg.com/timworstall/files/2013/06/inequality.png

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

Furthermore, the US poverty rate is lower than such "democratically socialist" countries like the United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html

And our current unemployment rate is lower than a good majority of OECD countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

Shaving off a couple hundred billion wouldn't do much to alleviate our budget crisis. It would likely cause more economic devastation, because the first "cuts" would be the domestic closing of military bases, which are an important part of many local economies (San Antonio's included).

Read these articles by Krugman:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/realism-on-defense-spending/?_r=0

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/more-on-defense/

Sure there's waste in defense spending (especially that bullshit war in Iraq), but there's waste in ALL government programs. My main point is that a wholesale cut in defense spending and then throwing that difference at social programs won't do much to eliminate the issues you're referring to.

Issues like this are more pressing:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/09/08/815951/california-spends-more-on-jails-than-higher-education/

[Uriel]

I used to be a hardcore dove that wanted to slash defense spending by at least 50% or more.

But the unfortunate truth is were are basically the defacto national defense for many of our allies. I know this might sound like simplistic, "conservatard" reasoning, but we'd alienate many of our allies in the Western World if we closed up shop and went home.

Also, a US led global hegemony has worked out pretty well. Statistically speaking, this is the most peaceful time in human history. When Europe was in charge, more blood spilled on their lands than rain.
Wow, I never thought I'd see the word "hegemony" or an allusion to Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of our Nature here on SpursTalk. Well done. :tu

[RoyerReptiles]

Have you looked at any of the relevant statistics?

Our "out of control" defense spending is only 1 to 2% higher (relative to GDP) than many of those "progressive" European countries that supposedly feed and educate their populace where we do not.



http://b-i.forbesimg.com/timworstall/files/2013/06/inequality.png

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

Furthermore, the US poverty rate is lower than such "democratically socialist" countries like the United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html

And our current unemployment rate is lower than a good majority of OECD countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

Shaving off a couple hundred billion wouldn't do much to alleviate our budget crisis. It would likely cause more economic devastation, because the first "cuts" would be the domestic closing of military bases, which are an important part of many local economies (San Antonio's included).

Read these articles by Krugman:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/realism-on-defense-spending/?_r=0

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/more-on-defense/

Sure there's waste in defense spending (especially that bullshit war in Iraq), but there's waste in ALL government programs. My main point is that a wholesale cut in defense spending and then throwing that difference at social programs won't do much to eliminate the issues you're referring to.

Issues like this are more pressing:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/09/08/815951/california-spends-more-on-jails-than-higher-education/

While I'm sure the effort put into compiling these statistics will be overlooked by the OP regardless of how compelling they are, the thing that always blows my mind is the apparent inability by people like the OP to separate the individual that sacrifices their life in service of their country from the douchebag politicians that abuse that sacrifice. Veterans Day isn't about celebrating entering pointless wars and wasting countless dollars, it's a celebration of the sacrifices made by individuals that put their country ahead of themselves....a type of unselfishness that should always be celebrated. But hey, keep on with the trolling, you may get more lurkers like myself to reply to the drivel.

[midnightpulp]

While I'm sure the effort put into compiling these statistics will be overlooked by the OP regardless of how compelling they are, the thing that always blows my mind is the apparent inability by people like the OP to separate the individual that sacrifices their life in service of their country from the douchebag politicians that abuse that sacrifice. Veterans Day isn't about celebrating entering pointless wars and wasting countless dollars, it's a celebration of the sacrifices made by individuals that put their country ahead of themselves....a type of unselfishness that should always be celebrated. But hey, keep on with the trolling, you may get more lurkers like myself to reply to the drivel.

I have to disagree on this point, since blind nationalism (see: Nazi Germany, of course) can lead to all sorts of evil.

My contention with the OP is that he's oversimplifying the argument and not considering the unintended consequences of his proposal.

[RD2191]

Wanna thank all US soldiers for my freedoms.:lol

[Perry Mason]

I have to disagree on this point, since blind nationalism (see: Nazi Germany, of course) can lead to all sorts of evil.

My contention with the OP is that he's oversimplifying the argument and not considering the unintended consequences of his proposal.

No, he's really not. Also, you have cherry picked statistics based on GDP, a hilariously flawed measurement. There is no such thing as GDP. It is, and always has been, a socialist planner's fiction to measure "output". The US spends more than half the world on "defense", i.e. transparently aggressive warmongering.

Adam Smith had the warfare state figured out long ago, and why so many civilians fall for it:

"In great empires the people who live in the capital, and in the provinces remote from the scene of action, feel, many of them, scarce any inconveniency from the war; but enjoy, at their ease, the amusement of reading in the newspapers the exploits of their own fleets and armies. To them this amusement compensates the small difference between the taxes which they pay on account of the war, and those which they had been accustomed to pay in time of peace. They are commonly dissatisfied with the return of peace, which puts an end to their amusement, and to a thousand visionary hopes of conquest and national glory from a longer continuance of the war. (Book V, Chapter 3 of The Wealth of Nations.)

[baseline bum]

I used to be a hardcore dove that wanted to slash defense spending by at least 50% or more.

But the unfortunate truth is were are basically the defacto national defense for many of our allies. I know this might sound like simplistic, "conservatard" reasoning, but we'd alienate many of our allies in the Western World if we closed up shop and went home.

Also, a US led global hegemony has worked out pretty well. Statistically speaking, this is the most peaceful time in human history. When Europe was in charge, more blood spilled on their lands than rain.

But all that blood spilled in Europe is what made us the most powerful nation on Earth after us and the Soviets (well, mostly the Soviets) mopped the floor with those Nazi homosexuals.

[baseline bum]

And that's coming from someone who firmly believe CP3 is the greatest closer post MJ

Allahu akbar!