Figuring out how to play with kawhi as a first/second option..Is the team struggling.

[apalisoc_9]

because of this?

The last 4 games kawhi had more possessions than Parker and duncan..

But at the same time, Parker has lost all signs of aggressiveness..doesn't want to shoot, stays on the corner etX..

Ginobili takes more shots than parker and he plays significantly less minutes than Tony...

I'm not saying it is a problem since the they beat the clippers with Kawhi dominating, but could it be a factor as why Tony and the other guys are struggling?

[mkurts]

Next thread by OP : Does Kawhi take a bigger shit than Parker?

[spurraider21]

maybe kawhi is trying too hard and is just looking out for himself

[DPG21920]

Despite the fact OP has started mostly terrible threads, I won't just dismiss all of them because of the OP. This is actually a legit question IMO.

I think anytime there is a transistion (going from different styles of play, changing focal points of offense, ect..) there will be some ups and downs. When you couple that with the fact it's new to Kawhi too and the injuries, you get some uneven play. The question is whether Kawhi is actually good enough to be a true focal point of an offense with championship aspirations. That is a gigantic if and having to figure out somewhat on the fly is very challenging.

[apalisoc_9]

Tony is the only guy who I feel like is struggling really bad..doesn't even look like Duncan even gives a shit at this point, and he still does benefit from Kawhi running PnR's...Manu plays most of his minutes with the bench guys so he is not affected.

Gotta find a middle ground here..Parker being a passive pussy who doesn't call his own "number" is concerning, specially against certain matchups.

He went from averaging 23 points a game to 16 PPG a game..I know it's a small sample size, but that's still a huge drop..it means he hasn't scored at all in the last 5 games.

Duncan went from 16 to 14..

Manu went from 15-12

kawhi went from 7 to 13

[wildchild]

Because of this? No.

As far as I know, the team play better when Kawhi is aggressive on offense taking the most of shots.
534335761189842946
The Kings game was the only game he forced it a bit but despite that 1-8 from 3, the rest of his shots weren't bad, in fact were very effective 6-8.

Like ElNono say, it's difficult to have patience, but it's a process.

[apalisoc_9]

Because of this? No.

As far as I know, the team play better when Kawhi is aggressive on offense taking the most of shots.
534335761189842946
The Kings game was the only game he forced it a bit but despite that 1-8 from 3, the rest of his shots weren't bad, in fact were very effective 6-8.

Like ElNono say, it's difficult to have patience, but it's a process.

the question I have is not whether the team is good with Kawhi being a first/second option, he clearly was in the LA road trip. The question I have is about Tony..I am all guns for kawhi taking as many shots as he wants, but Parker going from aggressive to being reduced to three point shooter and getting the ball to the other side of the court is concerning.

[EVAY]

because of this?

The last 4 games kawhi had more possessions than Parker and duncan..

But at the same time, Parker has lost all signs of aggressiveness..doesn't want to shoot, stays on the corner etX..

Ginobili takes more shots than parker and he plays significantly less minutes than Tony...

I'm not saying it is a problem since the they beat the clippers with Kawhi dominating, but could it be a factor as why Tony and the other guys are struggling?

I have said this in any number of threads. I think this is happening. Or at least they are trying to change the offense to get Kawhi more directly involved. I was here to watch Robinson change from dominance when Duncan came in and I was here to watch Pop put Manu in the second line-up understanding that his pnr offense was wasting the big three's talent trying to play all of them together for the whole game at the same time.

It was an odd change in each case, and it took a little bit to work out the kinks. I think this one will be even more difficult for everyone to adjust to because the team has rarely if ever run set plays for the three position. It has been 4-down or 1-4 p and r for years now. Tony is going to look odder than most in this situation because it is his role that changes more than others. I think that Parker is still trying to figure out where to go and what to do in a new offensive set (for all that matter, so is everyone else - look how turnovers have gone up this year), but they are all trying.

I think Parker's new-found focus on three pointers is a way to incorporate scoring from that area from him, where we used to get that from Kawhi. Kawhi wants more, Tony is being a good team player by trying out the new role.

I think Pop will see how this works out and decide after the all-star break whether or not to go back to last year's roles, and just force Kawhi to create the shots for himself, like he did in the playoffs last year.

The is still Pop-the-mad-chemist-time, imo. And the whole team is going along with it.

[wildchild]

the question I have is not whether the team is good with Kawhi being a first/second option, he clearly was in the LA road trip. The question I have is about Tony..I am all guns for kawhi taking as many shots as he wants, but Parker going from aggressive to being reduced to three point shooter and getting the ball to the other side of the court is concerning.

I'm not worried about Tony, he'll be fine.
I don't know where you have got this idea from but he isn't limited to just being a shooter in the corner...This season he had great games against Mavs, Warriors, etc.
After a long road trip, he looks tired and needs to recover. Nothing more than that.

[wildchild]

I think Parker's new-found focus on three pointers is a way to incorporate scoring from that area from him, where we used to get that from Kawhi. Kawhi wants more, Tony is being a good team player by trying out the new role.

The Spurs aren't there yet and Tony doesn't have a new role.

Only 10 games of the regular season and Pop is experimenting how to involve Kawhi, but that doesn't mean that Parker will change his role.
Obviously, he needs to add new weapons to his game like the three point shot but it isn't because of Kawhi's emergence, it's just because the passage of time.

[spurraider21]

i think Tony's improved 3 point shot is a positive sign that he's willing to be part of a more kawhi-centric offense than we've previously seen

[apalisoc_9]

Good things to come IMO..I just wonder how things will work with tiago on the floor instead of Boris...

[hyhy]

Its good that we try out all these options in the regular season.
Come playoffs, when teams gameplan against tony, we can go to kawhi.
When they gameplan against kawhi, we go to timmy.
When they gameplan against timmy, we go to manu.
At best, we go to our motion offense. So many weapons. I think whats important now is letting them all try it out and experience how to be the number one option.
You call it a problem when tony stands in the corner and kawhi post up. But when tony is the first option, kawhi stands in the corner too. Its the same thing. Thats spacing.
As long as come playoffs, everything is balanced, we will be good.

[SpurSwag]

I kind of agree with this, and honestly I think we're better as a team with Tony being a scorer and Kawhi having the same role as last year than with Kawhi getting more iso opportunities and parker being relegated to a spot up shooter. I'm just not sure how much I trust Kawhi as a primary option right now, whereas tony has proven that he can make the right play and really clutch plays deep in the playoffs.

[apalisoc_9]

I kind of agree with this, and honestly I think we're better as a team with Tony being a scorer and Kawhi having the same role as last year than with Kawhi getting more iso opportunities and parker being relegated to a spot up shooter. I'm just not sure how much I trust Kawhi as a primary option right now, whereas tony has proven that he can make the right play and really clutch plays deep in the playoffs.

kawhi has been the most clutch player for the spurs in the both finals, and both western conference finals in the last two years. Go watch the 2013 finals, 2013 western conference finals, 2014 Finals, 2014 western conference finals.

Not even fuxking close.

Remeber he's the FMVP for a reason

[spurraider21]

Good things to come IMO..I just wonder how things will work with tiago on the floor instead of Boris...
We've been really missing Tiago's defense tbh... the clippers were abusing us in the paint in the first half of that game, Demarcus Cousins never faced too much resistance, and Anthony Davis was able to get a game winning layup while being defended by the slow-footed Baynes. Dirk was also scoring in Diaw effortlessly in the 4th of the opener.

Despite your man-crush on Kawhi and his offense, defense is more valuable

[apalisoc_9]

SMH..

This concerns not only kawhi but everyone else.

Tony losing speed means he needs more space..

depending on how Parker is playing, Tiago might start of the bench from now on...

[spurraider21]

Tiago might be eased back, with his first few games being off the bench, but I fully expect him to be the starter down the line, maybe with Bobo starting for very specific matchups only

If the plan was to make Diaw a full time starter, he would be starting now, not Bonner

[Beaverfuzz]

Just win baby! Go Spurs Go :flag:

[apalisoc_9]

That's why it would be interesting to see how if tony still has the game to have two bigs in the floor and If Kawhi is able to play with two bigs on the floor...

If both can't, that's scary.

[Malik Hairston]

It's definitely one of the primary reasons, and it's only going to get worse when Splitter returns, as Leonard's offense has been much better with Diaw on the floor, rather than Tiago..it's going to be a tough transition..

The primary reason for the offensive struggles is the lack of shooting, primarily Danny Green, tbh..Green going from a 40%+ 3-point shooter on high volume to a 30% 3-point shooter on the same volume is an offense-killer..offensively, it's arguable that Green's jump shot is the most important factor for the Spurs, they're virtually unstoppable when he's making his 3s(which is backed up by the numbers)..

It's a necessary evil, though..Leonard has to learn how to be a go-to option more often, it's worth the growing pains, as the Spurs are going to have to prepare for the inevitable Tony Parker playoff letdown..Manu took over for him last year, but at his age, it's obviously not a given anymore..

[ElNono]

It's definitely one of the primary reasons, and it's only going to get worse when Splitter returns, as Leonard's offense has been much better with Diaw on the floor, rather than Tiago..it's going to be a tough transition..

The primary reason for the offensive struggles is the lack of shooting, primarily Danny Green, tbh..Green going from a 40%+ 3-point shooter on high volume to a 30% 3-point shooter on the same volume is an offense-killer..offensively, it's arguable that Green's jump shot is the most important factor for the Spurs, they're virtually unstoppable when he's making his 3s(which is backed up by the numbers)..

It's a necessary evil, though..Leonard has to learn how to be a go-to option more often, it's worth the growing pains, as the Spurs are going to have to prepare for the inevitable Tony Parker playoff letdown..Manu took over for him last year, but at his age, it's obviously not a given anymore..

Valid concerns, tbh... on the other hand, we have to see how it all changes with Patty returning... Kawhi had some good moments in the Finals last year when Patty was running the offense (that put back dunk, 3s in transition, etc).

[EVAY]

Valid concerns, tbh... on the other hand, we have to see how it all changes with Patty returning... Kawhi had some good moments in the Finals last year when Patty was running the offense (that put back dunk, 3s in transition, etc).

You may be right, E-N, but your examples are not going to indicate how right or wrong you are. Each of the examples you gave of Kawhi having 'some good moments...when Patty was running the offense" had absolutely nothing to do with whoever was running the offense. The big dunk put back was a carom off of a wayward three point shot that Kawhi just happened to be able to slip up behind the Heat, jump as high as the rafters and slam down a resounding dunk. That was all Kawhi and whoever missed the shot, but it had nothing to do with who the pg was.

Similarly, the transition three was off of a Kawhi steal which he brought up by himself, and stopped at the top of the key and popped a three pointer with not one single Spur under the basket in case it didn't go in. I remember being astounded that he would even try, and thanking all the stars above that the ball actually went in the basket because if it had not, Kawhi would probably have been screamed at and possibly pulled by Pop.

Neither of those plays had anything whatsoever to do with a point guard. They were actually the two plays that probably did more to solidify Kawhi's MVP position than anything else did.

[SnakeBoy]

All of the early struggles the Spurs have had are due to poor shooting and more importantly turnovers. Kawhi's role hasn't had anything to do with it.

[ElNono]

You may be right, E-N, but your examples are not going to indicate how right or wrong you are. Each of the examples you gave of Kawhi having 'some good moments...when Patty was running the offense" had absolutely nothing to do with whoever was running the offense. The big dunk put back was a carom off of a wayward three point shot that Kawhi just happened to be able to slip up behind the Heat, jump as high as the rafters and slam down a resounding dunk. That was all Kawhi and whoever missed the shot, but it had nothing to do with who the pg was.

Similarly, the transition three was off of a Kawhi steal which he brought up by himself, and stopped at the top of the key and popped a three pointer with not one single Spur under the basket in case it didn't go in. I remember being astounded that he would even try, and thanking all the stars above that the ball actually went in the basket because if it had not, Kawhi would probably have been screamed at and possibly pulled by Pop.

Neither of those plays had anything whatsoever to do with a point guard. They were actually the two plays that probably did more to solidify Kawhi's MVP position than anything else did.

tbh, it was not a knock on Tony (one of my favorite players). I was talking about the transition 3 in Game 3 or 4 in Miami... don't remember which one... we just seem to have a much higher pace with Patty out there, more ball movement and obviously, Boris helps with all that.

Again, not a knock on Tony, we have to just play different with the bench guys, considering the limitations (Manu is old, Boris is more of a passer/stretch 4, etc). I think it's easier for Kawhi to find his offense when we're playing in that kind of system, than the highly choreographed offense the starters run, especially when Tiago is out there. Now, this is an observation on what could be better for Kawhi, but that doesn't necessarily means it's best for the team (at least all the time).

[EVAY]

tbh, it was not a knock on Tony (one of my favorite players). I was talking about the transition 3 in Game 3 or 4 in Miami... don't remember which one... we just seem to have a much higher pace with Patty out there, more ball movement and obviously, Boris helps with all that.

Again, not a knock on Tony, we have to just play different with the bench guys, considering the limitations (Manu is old, Boris is more of a passer/stretch 4, etc). I think it's easier for Kawhi to find his offense when we're playing in that kind of system, than the highly choreographed offense the starters run, especially when Tiago is out there. Now, this is an observation on what could be better for Kawhi, but that doesn't necessarily means it's best for the team (at least all the time).

I really wasn't talking about Tony either...I was talking about Kawhi responding within an offensive set to a missed three pointer, and to his own defensive aggressiveness in the transition three. And to tell you the truth, I don't think that Tiago is as slow as Tim. We all love Time, he is the GOAT, but he is no longer quick.

Regarding what is better for Kawhi, the point I was trying to make in my response to you was that those particular plays you cited were ALL Kawhi. His aggressiveness was the key in both situations.

I agree entirely that the first team's set offense is slower and more choreographed. Let's just leave it as I started my response...you may well be right. But sometimes, it is just Kawhi being the best he can be on his own that defines his best contribution. And tbh, his best contribution is made easier for him by the exertions required by the opposing teams' defenders on our entire group of players.

Not really trying here to argue or bring up pg arguments - I was simply trying to point out to you that your examples were not the best you might have used to support your point. No biggie, really.

[spurraider21]

noticing this today too. there are a lot of times on offense where they seemingly disrupt the flow because they are trying to make it a priority to get the ball to kawhi.

a lot of times when he ends up with the ball, he feels pressure to create something all by himself. he lost his balance on the drive a couple of times, and sometimes just forces a play/shot instead of resetting

its an adjustment period for sure, but it does seem like times are changing

[apalisoc_9]

Again, Parker standing in the corner..Called it many nights ago tbh...

[wildchild]

Again, Parker standing in the corner..Called it many nights ago tbh...
Tony took only one shot from that.

He was aggressive early in the game but missed a couple shots and then...well, I still wonder what-happened-"then".

[testies]

how many times did Kawhi mishandle the ball or get stripped while penetrating yesterady? Sorry, Kawhi has to get shots on the flow of the offense, not be a focal point. He can be a focal point in some scrub team like Bucks or Nuggets, not here.

[wildchild]

He can be a focal point in some scrub team like Bucks or Nuggets, not here.
Good job!
I expect nothing less from the guy who said that there are plenty of better defenders than Kawhi and the Spurs should trade him for Papanikolaou.