Cavs fans feel the refs cost them the game

[Thebesteva]

I didn't watch the game, just the highlights. The majority of the Cavs fans are saying not to worry, that the refs cost them the game.

http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?threads/game-10-san-antonio-spurs-6-4-cleveland-cavaliers-5-4-november-19-2014-7-00pm-est.45089/page-27

Quotes from realcavsfans


http://realcavsfans.com/community/data/avatars/m/4/4569.jpg?1408851704 (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?members/kyrieville.4569/)Kyrieville (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?members/kyrieville.4569/)In the RotationJoined:Feb 13, 2009Messages:1,505 (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?search/member&user_id=4569)Likes Received:653



The refs sucked tonight. Cost Cleveland the game.




Rob (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?members/rob.9897/)Best of the LandJoined:Dec 14, 2011Messages:10,262 (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?search/member&user_id=9897)Likes Received:5,373Location:DFW (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?misc/location-info&location=DFW)



kevin02 said: ↑ (http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?goto/post&id=2009157#post-2009157)

The "quick two" is my least favorite decision in basketball. You have the ball down three with a chance to tie it. Take the three and don't create the potential for the chaos that was that last play. Give yourself a chance.

ESPECIALLY in our situation when we had no timeouts left.

God dammit. Refs blew it in the 4th but we blew it ourselves in the final two minutes.








brownsbuck6 said: ↑
(http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?goto/post&id=2009175#post-2009175)Two can play this game. LeBron lost his dribble, but the Spurs made plenty of mistakes too. One FG in 8 minutes proves that. The refs undoubtedly kept them in this game. I'm shocked that any impartial observer, much less a Cavs fan, would dispute that


The refs undoubtedly kept them in this game. I'm shocked that any impartial observer, much less a Cavs fan, would dispute that.

[RD2191]

:lol

[100%duncan]

Well well, that offensive foul on TD almost cost us the game too. :lol


:lol cleveland
:lol city of faggots

[Thebesteva]

Well well, that offensive foul on TD almost cost us the game too. :lol


:lol cleveland
:lol city of faggots


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

[100%duncan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

#neverforget

:lmao

[Sean Cagney]

Typical homers on a damn message board, which is why I could give two fucks less :lol

[Mikeanaro]

Dont like it? burn the refs jerseys you god damn trash.

[SupremeGuy]

lol cleveland sports fan

[KaiRMD1]

These guys sound like Miami fans circa late 2010- early 2014

[Thebesteva]

These guys sound like Miami fans circa late 2010- early 2014

Most of them are those Miami 'fans'. However, I remember now why I couldnt stand those winey faggots in 2010

[Mr. Body]

The offensive foul on Duncan was the worst call I've seen in a while. If anything the refs favored the Cavs.

[hyhy]

Calling a normal layup by Duncan an offensive foul, den callin the Anderson flop, den not calling the pushofff on manu, then calling the all-ball block on kyrie by Duncan..

More like refs trying to save the cavs down the stretch

[spurs1990]

I'm guessing the loss had the oompf of an uppercut from a bus driver.

[BanditHiro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

[benstanfield]

Lebron should've been T'd up twice so it evens out

[Thebesteva]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

I always get a kick out of this guy @1:22 and find his near tear speech to be more pathetic and hilarious than those infamous Cleveland videos. I wonder how hard he was jizzing when Lebum returned


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTgNlIEY_fw

[Legacy]

:cry LeBron is back but the refs messed up our debut. :cry

[Legacy]

The offensive foul on Duncan was the worst call I've seen in a while. If anything the refs favored the Cavs.


Calling a normal layup by Duncan an offensive foul, den callin the Anderson flop, den not calling the pushofff on manu, then calling the all-ball block on kyrie by Duncan..

More like refs trying to save the cavs down the stretch


Agreed. Things were getting ridiculously ticky-tacky.

[Thebesteva]

There's been an obvious agenda in the NBA for a few years, and that agenda is NOT pushing the Spurs. It's pushing Lebron as the GOAT when he's clearly not there and never will be. Still a top 10 though

[100%duncan]

There's been an obvious agenda in the NBA for a few years, and that agenda is NOT pushing the Spurs. It's pushing Lebron as the GOAT when he's clearly not there and never will be. Still a top 10 though

lol no. It was pushing that faggot ass OKC team to make a "rivalry" with them vs the Heat. Fortunately Durant is a pussy who would melt in crunch time.

[Thebesteva]

lol no. It was pushing that faggot ass OKC team to make a "rivalry" with them vs the Heat. Fortunately Durant is a pussy who would melt in crunch time.

Take a look at that 2010 game 2, not the statistics, watch that 2nd half. That was the day it was cemented to me that the NBA is rigged, no argument. I hate the Celtics and preferred facing the Cavs, but the Celts were winning and the refs made call after call after call on everything and ignored everything on the other end to make the Cavs win that game.

It was an obvious agenda.

[100%duncan]

Take a look at that 2010 game 2, not the statistics, watch that 2nd half. That was the day it was cemented to me that the NBA is rigged, no argument. I hate the Celtics and preferred facing the Cavs, but the Celts were winning and the refs made call after call after call on everything and ignored everything on the other end to make the Cavs win that game.

It was an obvious agenda.

So that one game is greater than every game of Durant and Westbrook driving into the hole not looking at the rim waiting for a foul?

[100%duncan]

Also, take a look at game 6 wcf 2012. If you want to talk about specific games...

[Thebesteva]

So that one game is greater than every game of Durant and Westbrook driving into the hole not looking at the rim waiting for a foul?

Im not denying the OKC agenda, I never really watched OKC games tbh. Westbrooks over acting and dramatization of everything was too hard to observe for me.
I seriously have no idea why that retard is not clocked in the face already


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hukksbbc2YE

[Venti Quattro]

If you have a chance to win or tie a ballgame and you dribble the ball off your foot and lose it to the opponent, you don't have a right to complain about the officiating.

[100%duncan]

Im not denying the OKC agenda, I never really watched OKC games tbh. Westbrooks over acting and dramatization of everything was too hard to observe for me.
I seriously have no idea why that retard is not clocked in the face already


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hukksbbc2YE

I hate durant more though :lol

[DJR210]

Only good thing to ever come out of Cleveland is and will always be Bone Thugs N Harmony IMHO

[DJR210]

If you have a chance to win or tie a ballgame and you dribble the ball off your foot and lose it to the opponent, you don't have a right to complain about the officiating.

This. The mere thought of Kawhi's monstrous hand was enough to make LeBron shit the bed and blow the game.

[baseline bum]

Only good thing to ever come out of Cleveland is and will always be Bone Thugs N Harmony IMHO

Those faggots suck

[DJR210]

Those faggots suck

Best rap group OOT bitch

[Legacy]

Only good thing to ever come out of Cleveland is and will always be Bone Thugs N Harmony IMHO


"Cleveland is the city where we come from so run run..." :lol

[DJR210]

"Cleveland is the city where we come from so run run..." :lol


Murda Murda Mo Murda Mo Murda Murda Mo Murda Mo Murda Mo Murda

[baseline bum]

Best rap group OOT bitch

Fuck that shit.

http://i.imgur.com/E9UpZnw.jpg

[Legacy]

Murda Murda Mo Murda Mo Murda Murda Mo Murda Mo Murda Mo Murda

:lmao

"That's what ouija said..."

Oh shit, now I'm jammin' to it. It's been fooorrreeevveerr!!!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Best rap group OOT bitch

If you like effeminate rap I guess.

[DJR210]

If you like effeminate rap I guess. :lol Only a legitimate homosexual uses the word "effiminate"

[mkurts]

The refs made Lebron lose the ball, via force push.

Strong in the force the refs are

[Trainwreck2100]

If you have a chance to win or tie a ballgame and you dribble the ball off your foot and lose it to the opponent, you don't have a right to complain about the officiating.
don't forget being out of timeouts,

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol Only a legitimate homosexual uses the word "effiminate"

:lol butthurt trying to make it about me.

Sorry but the guy still has the high alto voice that sounds like a girl. It is what it is.

[Venti Quattro]

don't forget being out of timeouts,

They didn't need the timeout; they had enough time to scramble a play and LeBron blew it. You know it, I know it and he knows it.

[DJR210]

Fuck that shit. http://i.imgur.com/E9UpZnw.jpg I would probably have gone with NWA too, but they were a few years before my time. There's a ton of old school rap groups that could take the title, but I went with Bone because the dark production on the earlier albums.

[Venti Quattro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf819zY7mck

[Thebesteva]

http://i.imgur.com/ScPdvKg.jpg

[FkLA]

lol at OP using this to garner support for his anti-Lebron campaign

To anyone who's analysis goes beyond 5>2, Bron still defecates all over Kirby Beanchuck. Hell be Top 3 when it's all said and done. Beanchuck will be lucky to end up Top 10.

[Venti Quattro]

To anyone who's analysis goes beyond 5>2, Bron still defecates all over Kirby Beanchuck. Hell be Top 3 when it's all said and done. Beanchuck will be lucky to end up Top 10.

He is top 10

[cd021]

I though the reffing was alright on both sides. Bad calls kind of evened out. the Spurs shot 25 FTs on the road while only 13 for the Cavs that have 3 all stars.

[cd021]

http://i.imgur.com/ScPdvKg.jpg

coping that on tpb :lol

[FkLA]

He is top 10

Nah. Beanchuck just misses the cut imo.

[scanry]

He is top 10

I think LeCoon will crack the top 5 when it's all said and done. Too much media $ invested in Lebron for it not to tbh.

[Venti Quattro]

I think LeCoon will crack the top 5 when it's all said and done. Too much media $ invested in Lebron for it not to tbh.

Duncan top 5. Kobe and Bron will play around 6-10 imo. Who'll be higher will depend on which reporter or company is ranking it

[Venti Quattro]

Nah. Beanchuck just misses the cut imo.

nope

[Thebesteva]

nope

Nah, he easily makes top 10. These guys will never admit it though.

[spurraider21]

a lot of it depends on where u rank the dinosaurs like Wilt/Russell/Baylor

[FkLA]

Nah, he easily makes top 10. These guys will never admit it though.

It's funny that you talk about the media propping up LBJ but don't mention what they've done for Kirby. There is no comparison between him and MJ yet it's always brought up. His clutchness is a myth. The fact that his first three rings were on Shaqs teams is always swept under the rug when they talk about him being a 5 time champion. His selfish and sociopathic behavior is constantly portrayed as a 'desire to win'.

Truth is the guy is a product of the Lakers franchise, which I have no problem admitting is a great and storied franchise. His 'greatness' wouldn't translate anywhere else bc no other franchise can attract stars, swing one sided trades or spend cash like LA does. And we've all seen what Beanchuck is made of when he doesn't have a perfectly constructed team with dominant frontlines. To make matters worse his style of play and sociopathic behavior has brought that same franchise to its knees.

You know how people wonder how great Duncan would've been for Boston if they would've won the lottery since they were the favorites? It's pretty much the consensus that he would've changed any franchise. Bron is the same. Anthony Davis looks like one. But Kirby, I think of him and I'm like...this chucker wouldn't have led those respective franchises to bigger heights if he was thrown into AI, Tmac or Carter's situation. He hasn't shown anything that would suggest that. He deserves props for longevity but he's never had the impact the true greats have. He can't get anything out of teammates that they didn't already have, bc the sociopath just isn't a team guy.

[FkLA]

Now in typical Kirby stan fashion reply with a simple 81 or 5 rings.

[Venti Quattro]

Now in typical Kirby stan fashion reply with a simple 81 or 5 rings.

:lmao like Spurfans' 5>1 rings faggots to Mavs fans?

Oh the hypocrisy...

[Venti Quattro]

a lot of it depends on where u rank the dinosaurs like Wilt/Russell/Baylor

You can't move Russell out of the top 5 because someone who wins 11 rings is transcendent. Wilt can be pulled down because, although winning two rings, he is a career choker and got traded two times. He is like Malone with rings. Elg doesn't even make it in the top 10 because he doesn't have a ring.

Larry Legend can be pulled down for Duncan. Big O makes room for LeBron.

[spurraider21]

:lmao like Spurfans' 5>1 rings faggots to Mavs fans?

Oh the hypocrisy...
Duncan got to a team that had never even made the finals, though. He turned them into 5 time champions. How long do you think the gap will be until their next ring after Duncan retires? Indefinite.

If Kobe never got traded to the Lakers and instead was on the Charlotte Hornets, you really think the guy would have won championships? Would he have pushed his Hornets ahead of Shaq's Lakers, Duncan's Spurs? lol

[Venti Quattro]

Duncan got to a team that had never even made the finals, though. He turned them into 5 time champions. How long do you think the gap will be until their next ring after Duncan retires? Indefinite.

If Kobe never got traded to the Lakers and instead was on the Charlotte Hornets, you really think the guy would have won championships? Would he have pushed his Hornets ahead of Shaq's Lakers, Duncan's Spurs? lol

If SA didn't tank they wouldn't have gotten Duncan. We all make sly moves to put ourselves in a better position. It's human nature. It turned out well; each franchise concerned is 5 titles richer

[spurraider21]

You can't move Russell out of the top 5 because someone who wins 11 rings is transcendent. Wilt can be pulled down because, although winning two rings, he is a career choker and got traded two times. He is like Malone with rings. Elg doesn't even make it in the top 10 because he doesn't have a ring.

Larry Legend can be pulled down for Duncan. Big O makes room for LeBron.
I've got:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic/Duncan
Shaq/LeBron
Larry
Hakeem
Kobe

its not that i dont think Russell/Wilt should be that high, but i literally have no way to measure them up tbh. i just put them aside, and if somebody REALLY wants to argue for one of them being top 2 or the other top 5, i wont complain

[spurraider21]

If SA didn't tank they wouldn't have gotten Duncan. We all make sly moves to put ourselves in a better position. It's human nature. It turned out well; each franchise concerned is 5 titles richer
if by tanked you mean they injured D-Rob on purpose (?) then fine

but whether or not they tanked is irrelevant to my point. how long do you think Kobe would have lasted on the Hornets. seriously

[Venti Quattro]

but whether or not they tanked is irrelevant to my point. how long do you think Kobe would have lasted on the Hornets. seriously

Not a lot of years. Kobe isn't known as someone who will stand pat and tolerate mediocrity even if it makes him the villain. That's how I define his career. Sure they would've won some playoff series but not a championship. Charlotte isn't exactly known as a championship haven

[Venti Quattro]

I've got:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic/Duncan
Shaq/LeBron
Larry
Hakeem
Kobe

Here's my 10.

Mike
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Tim
Larry
Kobe
LeBron
Hakeem
Jerry

[FkLA]

:lmao like Spurfans' 5>1 rings faggots to Mavs fans?Oh the hypocrisy...Wut? Team and player, learn the difference. If a mavfan wants to sit there and argue which franchise is better rings are sufficient to shut them up. Doesn't take a genius to realize a little more analysis has to go into it for players since they don't win rings all by themselves.
If SA didn't tank they wouldn't have gotten Duncan. We all make sly moves to put ourselves in a better position. It's human nature. It turned out well; each franchise concerned is 5 titles richerAgain you're comparing a team to a player. Guys like Duncan, Bron and Davis make those tanking franchise relevant. For Kirby, the greatness of the Lakers franchise made him more than just another AI. :lol

[spurraider21]

Here's my 10.

Mike
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Tim
Larry
Kobe
LeBron
Hakeem
Jerry
i can respect that. like i said, stick russell wherever u want i won't really fuss about it. i had magic/duncan in the same tier, so having them 3 and 5 doesn't bug me at all, i think it fair. i do think shaq should be in the top 10.

i just realized my list only gave 9 names... i'll throw in Oscar #10

[spurraider21]

TMac + Lakers franchise - injuries = ?

Kobe - Lakers franchise = ?

[FkLA]

Fucking lol at Beanchuck 7th and over Bron. Explain it to me in more than one sentence, please. I want to hear about the impact he's had on games and his teammates.

[Venti Quattro]

Fucking lol at Beanchuck 7th and over Bron. Explain it to me in more than one sentence, please. I want to hear about the impact he's had on games and his teammates.

The same effect LeBron has. The media just sucks Bron's dick more because he's more media-friendly and less an asswipe than Kobe.

How many past teammates of Kobe aside from Shaq, Malone, Payton, Dwight and Nash could you say have flourished in a leading role before and after being teammates with him?

Please let's not even debate the impact he's had on games. The 5 championships speak for themselves.

[spurraider21]

I think there's a myth that LeBron makes everybody better. It's mainly spot up shooters, really. Wade and Bosh took steps back in their game. Kevin Love so far looks so out of place. Kyrie isn't really benefitting.

there's no doubt LeBron makes a team better, but its different to make the players around you better.

[Venti Quattro]

For Kirby, the greatness of the Lakers franchise made him more than just another AI. :lol

Excuse me, Kobe takes practice very seriously.

[Chomag]

Lebron is such an overrated player. Honestly he should only have 1 ring at this point. Hes is a great player yes but no where near one of top player of all time list.

Most on the top list stayed with their teams all career and not jump ship to a super team when things get tough...just saying.

[MultiTroll]

Sorry to interrupt the GOAT discussion.

Anyone got a .gif of Sugarpuff Irving being *fouled* when Duncan blocked his shot?

[heyheymymy]

Calling a normal layup by Duncan an offensive foul, den callin the Anderson flop, den not calling the pushofff on manu, then calling the all-ball block on kyrie by Duncan..

More like refs trying to save the cavs down the stretch

dead on :bobo

[SupremeGuy]

Wherever Pippen ranks, kirby is right behind him, tbh.

[unleashbaynes]

top 10 all time players dont miss playoffs.

[spurraider21]

top 10 all time players dont miss playoffs.
so naturally that rules out hakeem and kareem

[Biernutz]

I'm surprised that testies didn't pile on with the Cav's fans......

[SnakeBoy]

I always get a kick out of this guy @1:22 and find his near tear speech to be more pathetic and hilarious than those infamous Cleveland videos. I wonder how hard he was jizzing when Lebum returned


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTgNlIEY_fw

:lol I never paid attention to "The Decision" or the fallout but damn...

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l52/shaka1213/B2/Blog%20pics/thats-gold-jerry.png

[Venti Quattro]

so naturally that rules out hakeem and kareem

Mike and Magic as well, and LeBron's future inclusion would be barricaded.

[Splits]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN0WqSeCKW8

[FromWayDowntown]

When Ed Malloy is on the whistle, nobody wins; someone just survives.

[MultiTroll]

When Ed Malloy is on the whistle, nobody wins; someone just survives.
Can you help rustle up a gif of the play of Duncan with the clutch block on Sugarpuff Irving only to be rung up by Ed and krew?

[FromWayDowntown]

http://www.giyf.com

[Shastafarian]

When Ed Malloy is on the whistle, nobody wins; someone just survives.

http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/timberwolves-radio-announcer-goes-nuts-over-no-call.html

I've really never laughed as hard at a play-by-play call as I did listening to this...over and over again.

[hater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTgNlIEY_fw

:lmao holy shit :wow

:lol :lol and these losers are probably in line to suck off Lebum once again :lol pathetic

[tholdren]

The offensive foul on Duncan was the worst call I've seen in a while. If anything the refs favored the Cavs.

yep, that was an and one. not to mention the Baynes straight up foul.

Good thing they have Kevin Love, he, not the refs, kept us in the game

[FlAVaK]

http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/timberwolves-radio-announcer-goes-nuts-over-no-call.html

I've really never laughed as hard at a play-by-play call as I did listening to this...over and over again.

:lmao that was great, thanks for sharing!

[MI21]

When Ed Malloy is on the whistle, nobody wins; someone just survives.

He just looks inept, tbh.

[FkLA]

The same effect LeBron has. The media just sucks Bron's dick more because he's more media-friendly and less an asswipe than Kobe.

How many past teammates of Kobe aside from Shaq, Malone, Payton, Dwight and Nash could you say have flourished in a leading role before and after being teammates with him?

Please let's not even debate the impact he's had on games. The 5 championships speak for themselves.

Bwahaha. LeBron makes the right basketball play every time, even is labeled as not having a killer instinct by Kirby stans bc of it. Yet you're really gonna compare him to a guy who's selfish play has cost the Lakers championships and has made a place where stars once flocked to undesirable? You suck at analyzing basketball tbh.



I think there's a myth that LeBron makes everybody better. It's mainly spot up shooters, really. Wade and Bosh took steps back in their game. Kevin Love so far looks so out of place. Kyrie isn't really benefitting.

there's no doubt LeBron makes a team better, but its different to make the players around you better.

It's not his job to make those kind of guys better, they don't need him in that way since they can get points on their own. With them it's more of a balancing act...make sure they eat and have their moments as the focal point too. Bron is willing to do that, meanwhile Beanchuck feels the need to say and 'show' people that the Lakers are still his team.

As far as shooters and guys like Sideshow Bob go, Bron is king at making those kind of players better. Kirby OTOH would rather put up 40 shots than pass it to them.

[FkLA]

Excuse me, Kobe takes practice very seriously.

And AI knows how to win playoff series without HOF bigman.

Gotta love the bball intelligence of Kirby fan though. It's like your incapable of writing more than 3-4 sentences.

[Venti Quattro]

Bwahaha. LeBron makes the right basketball play every time, even is labeled as not having a killer instinct by Kirby stans bc of it. Yet you're really gonna compare him to a guy who's selfish play has cost the Lakers championships and has made a place where stars once flocked to undesirable? You suck at analyzing basketball tbh.
Damn, Kobe is so great that he won 5 titles and 2 FMVPs despite his selfish, beanchuck and cancerous play. Thanks for reinforcing my point. :tu


And AI knows how to win playoff series without HOF bigman.
Let's give AI a Won A Series Without A HOF Big Man Championship? :tu

[FkLA]

I would continue the discussion if your arguments didn't should like they were made by a 10 year old fanboy. You're horrible at talking basketball and at understanding simple things tbh.

[FkLA]

I wanna have a good discussion with an intelligent, reasonable Kirby fan just once. It seems like all of them are retarded. I think I might get through to an intelligent one. Then again chances are the smart Laker fans are the ones that see through Beanchuck...so smart Kirby fans probably don't exist tbh. :(

[FromWayDowntown]

That sounds a whole lot like you want to have a good discussion with someone who agrees with you.

Venti Quattro's arguments for Kobe don't seem unreasonable to me. You just disagree with him and seem to be disappointed that you can't change his mind -- as if there is an objectively correct answer.

It's not a particularly unreasonable position to argue that -- at this moment -- Kobe Bryant has had a better NBA career than Lebron James.

[FkLA]

There is no argument on his part. Hes just throwing out ring count and how 'they speak for themselves'. I think some of what I brough up and spurraider too are legit questions about Kirby yet they're just side stepped bc 5 rings. Not much different than the typical Kirby stan tbh.

[cd021]

Fuck that shit.

http://i.imgur.com/E9UpZnw.jpg

If you're calling N.W.A the best rap group then that's a joke its Outkast or the Wu

[FkLA]

It's not a particularly unreasonable position to argue that -- at this moment -- Kobe Bryant has had a better NBA career than Lebron James.

If you look past ring count, which is a team accomplishment anyway, its not even all that close. 4-5 MVPs and under 30 years old is ridiculous.

[Venti Quattro]

I am hardly a Kirby stan, vato. It's more like you can't argue any matter regarding without your predisposed bias against The Mamba.

You can't deny the positive and effect he's had on his games on his teammates when the end result is numerous playoff series won, 5 championships and 2 FMVPs. Sure, he's been blessed with quality teammates but that's the work of the front office which he works for. He was given the tools and he went out and made it work. How can you antagonize that? Sure, he's not good now but you knew he was money when he had the quality around him to compete.

A lot of stars who were blessed with the same talent weren't even able to win the championship. That's what makes him one of the 10 best players in NBA league history.

[FromWayDowntown]

The 5 titles are a pretty significant argument; Jordan's 6 and Russell's 11 are generally noted as the premier accomplishments of their careers and the fundamental bona fides for their inclusion in any historical Top 5. Tim Duncan's 5th all but ensured that he will retire as a Top 10 all-time player.

I'm not going to try to spell out Kobe's resume, but I will say again that I don't think an argument that Kobe Bryant has had a better career than Lebron James at this juncture is in any way unreasonable. Kobe's got hardware that Lebron can't match; Kobe's got production that Lebron hasn't matched yet; Kobe's got monstrous performances in big games and big moments that are indelibly a part of his NBA legacy -- and, arguably, he has far more of those kinds of performances than Lebron does (and most of the time, he's had to get through a difficult Western Conference without the cushion of getting a couple of walkovers to get him into the latter rounds of the playoffs; and when he was younger, his teams ran that gauntlet with some consistency).

It's all a matter of taste and subjective evaluations, but there's ample room to argue that Kobe Bryant's resume is among the very best ever.

Ranking him, at the end of his career, slightly ahead of Lebron in the middle of his career is pretty reasonable.

[FkLA]

I am hardly a Kirby stan, vato. It's more like you can't argue any matter regarding without your predisposed bias against The Mamba.

You can't deny the positive and effect he's had on his games on his teammates when the end result is numerous playoff series won, 5 championships and 2 FMVPs. Sure, he's been blessed with quality teammates but that's the work of the front office which he works for. He was given the tools and he went out and made it work. How can you antagonize that? Sure, he's not good now but you knew he was money when he had the quality around him to compete.

A lot of stars who were blessed with the same talent weren't even able to win the championship. That's what makes him one of the 10 best players in NBA league history.

He's probably Top 5 ever at getting his own shot. And it's not like I'm calling him a scrub, I have him atleast Top 15. But his selfishness is a legit weakness of his. The frontlines and squads he had during title years allowed him to just focus on what he does best which is why the Lakers enjoyed success during his tenure. We've all seen the result the 4-5 years were he doesn't have dominant players by his side though. The results aren't any different than what Tmac, AI or VC did in similar situations. I mean thats a fact not just an opinion of mine.

[FkLA]

The 5 titles are a pretty significant argument; Jordan's 6 and Russell's 11 are generally noted as the premier accomplishments of their careers and the fundamental bona fides for their inclusion in any historical Top 5. Tim Duncan's 5th all but ensured that he will retire as a Top 10 all-time player.

I'm not going to try to spell out Kobe's resume, but I will say again that I don't think an argument that Kobe Bryant has had a better career than Lebron James at this juncture is in any way unreasonable. Kobe's got hardware that Lebron can't match; Kobe's got production that Lebron hasn't matched yet; Kobe's got monstrous performances in big games and big moments that are indelibly a part of his NBA legacy -- and, arguably, he has far more of those kinds of performances than Lebron does (and most of the time, he's had to get through a difficult Western Conference without the cushion of getting a couple of walkovers to get him into the latter rounds of the playoffs; and when he was younger, his teams ran that gauntlet with some consistency).

It's all a matter of taste and subjective evaluations, but there's ample room to argue that Kobe Bryant's resume is among the very best ever.

Ranking him, at the end of his career, slightly ahead of Lebron in the middle of his career is pretty reasonable.

That type of comparison suggests both have been in comparable situations when that couldn't be further from the truth.. LA has a huge advantage over every NBA franchise, or atleast did until Kobe ran everyone off. Cleveland sports on the other hand had a stink surrounding them prior to Bron. I'm not give a guy the nod just bc he forced his way to an infinitely better position.

[Venti Quattro]

He's probably Top 5 ever at getting his own shot. And it's not like I'm calling him a scrub, I have him atleast Top 15. But his selfishness is a legit weakness of his. The frontlines and squads he had during title years allowed him to just focus on what he does best which is why the Lakers enjoyed success during his tenure. We've all seen the result the 4-5 years were he doesn't have dominant players by his side though. The results aren't any different than what Tmac, AI or VC did in similar situations. I mean thats a fact not just an opinion of mine.

He was selfish at times during his career, yes, and he was one of the factors that cost the Lakers the 2004 title. Also he's an ass wipe. These are the facts that I won't even try to deny.

But how many title teams aside from Jordan's Bulls and Bron's Heat were able to win without a dominant post and inside presence? Even Isiah needed Laimbeer and Rodman, Jordan needed Horace Grant and Rodman, and LeBron has been already beaten thrice by teams with a legitimate post presence. The odds of winning a championship in the NBA without a HOF (or at least really dominant) guard-big man combination are low, and it's even lower in the Wild Wild West. These are facts you can't deny as well.

Also, that's the Lakers formula of success. West and Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar and Johnson, O'Neal and Bryant, Gasol and Bryant. Kobe has been blessed and, thankfully, patient enough to be given two HOF big men by the Lakers front office. At the end of the day he did his part despite his obvious flaws.

[FromWayDowntown]

That type of comparison suggests both have been in comparable situations. LA has a huge advantage over every NBA franchise, or atleast did until Kobe ran everyone off. Cleveland sports on the other hand had a stink surrounding them prior to Bron. I'm not give a guy the nod just bc he forced his way to an infinitely better position.

All Cleveland sports has to show for itself is that Lebron won 2 MVPs while playing there and got swept in the Finals while his teams underperformed their seed in the playoffs in both 2009 and 2010.

Also, Lebron can't seriously be in the conversation without the 2 rings he won in Miami, which he got -- oh by the way -- by "forcing his way to an infinitely better position."

[apalisoc_9]

That type of comparison suggests both have been in comparable situations when that couldn't be further from the truth.. LA has a huge advantage over every NBA franchise, or atleast did until Kobe ran everyone off. Cleveland sports on the other hand had a stink surrounding them prior to Bron. I'm not give a guy the nod just bc he forced his way to an infinitely better position.

Yup..

[FkLA]

All Cleveland sports has to show for itself is that Lebron won 2 MVPs while playing there and got swept in the Finals while his teams underperformed their seed in the playoffs in both 2009 and 2010.

Also, Lebron can't seriously be in the conversation without the 2 rings he won in Miami, which he got -- oh by the way -- by "forcing his way to an infinitely better position."

Which is a whole lot more than what LA can say when Kobe has had comparable talent.

So basically, Bron proved that his 'failures' in Cleveland had more to do with the situation he was in? Put him in a great situation and it's 4 finals appearances, 2 titles and 2 FMVPs.

[Barfunk]

Those faggots suck

Lol no

E.1999 Eternal

[FromWayDowntown]

Put him in a great situation [in the Eastern Conference] and it's 4 finals appearances, 2 titles and 2 FMVPs.

Yup.

[baseline bum]

Lol no

E.1999 Eternal

You respond by citing an album where they sing like a bunch of homos? Only good album they ever made was Creepin. It's sad, when Thuggish Ruggish dropped they were poised to be the best hardcore crew since NWA but then they went soft in Eternal. Only good song off that piece of shit album was Shotz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wufMFnglE4A). Only hard song on that tape.

[MI21]

This thread is weird, :lol

We have people discussing gangsta rap, Spurs fans defending Kobe and discussions about LeBron's greatness all from a thread about Cavs fans and referees.

[heyheymymy]

This thread is weird, :lol

We have people discussing gangsta rap, Spurs fans defending Kobe and discussions about LeBron's greatness all from a thread about Cavs fans and referees.

feels like a party everyones here and 4 different conversations going on.