Spurs @ Cavs discussion thread

[Brazil]

Not sure where to post thoughts about last night game... so I thought a post game discussion thread could be useful when no game grades thread are on




Discuss tbh

[100%duncan]

I approve of this thread however I need to rewatch the game first since my feed was shit earlier

[Venti Quattro]

Kyrie Irving looks lost in Cleveland. He needs to be traded for two lesser but more system-fit players for LeBron.

[midnightpulp]

Rewatching. "The Beautiful Game" is still alive and well. 35 made field goals on 26 assists, and the offense is still generating a lot of open looks. Only reason we can't break games open this year (and why the offense looks "ugly") is because the Spurs are in a shooting slump from 3 and missing two 3 point shooting specialists. The only blemishes offensively this game is when they 4-downed Duncan in the post and he let the ball stick. Duncan seemed to have a '03 flashback and got somewhat selfish this game, wanting to take Love and Varejao on the block.

Leonard is going to be a very strong offensive player. He is a beast on the block, has a very quick first step, great at leading the break from a d-board, and is showing flashes of being a solid penetrator. Just needs to improve his handles a bit and get more comfortable with his larger offensive role.

Diaw was great tonight. Hopefully this game grows his confidence and he becomes a legitimate 2nd or 3rd option when Manu or Tony is off their game.

And the defense was, once again, elite. Per the stats, the Spurs now have the best overall defense in the league (98.1 DRTG and an 80% defensive rebounding percentage, both NBA bests).

Scary to think the defense will probably get better once Tiago returns.

When the offense rounds into form, the Spurs could go on a terror. All the numbers look good, so once the shooting regresses to the mean, watch out.

[Fireball]

Its astounding how the Spurs are winning right now. The offense is a complete mess (inconsistent aggressiveness by Parker, Kawhi trying too much in the wrong situations, Duncans TOs, etc etc) ... watching how other teams in the league are hitting threes in bunches and one of the better shooting teams in the league just cannot get it started. I mean, a thread like "will the Spurs ever score 120 points again?" will be opened soon. Thankfully the defense is very solid despite Tiagos absence, especially defensive rebounding looks supreme. Remember how Kevin Love punished the Spurs when he was with the Wolves. Now he stands so far outside the Spurs have no problem getting most of the rebounds.

It really pays off having all players back on board this season. Despite the good defense I still think Anderson "Tingletangle Bob" Varejao should not score so many points on you.

[Hemotivo]

The only blemishes offensively this game is when they 4-downed Duncan in the post and he let the ball stick. Duncan seemed to have a '03 flashback and got somewhat selfish this game, wanting to take Love and Varejao on the block.



the cavs don't have good interior defense

[100%duncan]

the cavs don't have good interior defense

And Duncan is 38...

[midnightpulp]

the cavs don't have good interior defense

Sadly, he just can't finish like he used to off an array of post moves.

He's best when he flashes, catches deep, and quickly finishes.

[Raven]

Rewatching. "The Beautiful Game" is still alive and well. 35 made field goals on 26 assists, and the offense is still generating a lot of open looks. Only reason we can't break games open this year (and why the offense looks "ugly") is because the Spurs are in a shooting slump from 3 and missing two 3 point shooting specialists. The only blemishes offensively this game is when they 4-downed Duncan in the post and he let the ball stick. Duncan seemed to have a '03 flashback and got somewhat selfish this game, wanting to take Love and Varejao on the block.

Leonard is going to be a very strong offensive player. He is a beast on the block, has a very quick first step, great at leading the break from a d-board, and is showing flashes of being a solid penetrator. Just needs to improve his handles a bit and get more comfortable with his larger offensive role.

Diaw was great tonight. Hopefully this game grows his confidence and he becomes a legitimate 2nd or 3rd option when Manu or Tony is off their game.

And the defense was, once again, elite. Per the stats, the Spurs now have the best overall defense in the league (98.1 DRTG and an 80% defensive rebounding percentage, both NBA bests).

Scary to think the defense will probably get better once Tiago returns.

When the offense rounds into form, the Spurs could go on a terror. All the numbers look good, so once the shooting regresses to the mean, watch out.

can't be a coincidence that it happened with beli out.. now if danny and kawhi would make their open threes, everything would be great.

[Raven]

the cavs don't have good interior defense

that's actually making them look better than they actually are..

[Spur|n|Austin]

It's not necessary for the offense to score 120 a game with the defense playing the way they are.

I agree w/ Venti, Irving does not seem like a good fit with James (or the offense for that matter), at least at this point of the season. Hope to not have to eat crow about that later in the season though.

Solid win against a team who is still trying to find itself. The Spurs wins have not been big this season but they are wins nonetheless; being able to close out games the way they have will be solid come later this season if they can stay healthy.

[Uriel]

Leonard is ... showing flashes of being a solid penetrator.

Diaw was great tonight.
:lol

[wildchild]

...watching how other teams in the league are hitting threes in bunches and one of the better shooting teams in the league just cannot get it started.

When people talk about our "three point shooting specialists" I wonder who are those guys.
Danny is our best shooter but we know he goes from cold to hot and vice versa quicker than any shooter in the league.
Tony is working hard but he's still developing his shot.
Kawhi is battling with vision issues and his three point shot looks broken (last three games: 1-13 from three 7.6%, rest of his shots 12-21 57.1%).
I wouldn't say Manu and Boris are deadly three point shooters.
Maybe Marco's three-point shooting percentage in last regular season helped the team but he wasn't a reliable option in playoffs.

Anyway, last season the Spurs started off slow shooting behind the three point line, too. I have no doubt the Spurs will improve their three-point field goals field this season, just like they did last season.

[100%duncan]

Ok just done watching the replay, few of my ideas....


1. Boris Diaw should hold the basketball and be allowed to facilitate every time he's on the floor. The dude is the smartest on the team, respected player so he will surely get defensive attention giving guys much needed space and with Bobo's passing? Deadly.

2. Tim is most successful when he decides quick. Shoot the jumper? Go. Face up baby hook? Sure. Just don't spend 3 seconds with your back to the basket allowing the defender to set up.

3. Cory Joseph is actually a good back-up pg. Gives you solid minutes, improved midrange jumper and has the quickness to drive and penetrate to the hoop. Fearless.

4. Kawhi and DG might be two of the best wing defenders of all time. You don't notice it since DG's defense is outshined by his 3 pt shooting and Kawhi's D is outshined, ironically, by his steals. What makes both of these guys elite defenders is that they force players to dribble too much causing chaos and turnovers, again not necessarily steals. Lebron scored what, 15 pts on 6-17 shooting? There's a reason for that, thank god for these two niggas.

5. We truly are a deep team despite the poor offensive performance. On the road against one of the most talented teams in the league, missing your best defensive big, 2 elite 3 point shooters, with Manu and TP playing like shit the whole game, yet they managed to win. You can not be more satisfied with that.

[EVAY]

Diaw continues to impress more and more. He can be the MVP of the game on repeated occasions. The offense still looks broken, but I really do believe that a lot of that is the absence of Tiago, Marco and Patty - and last night Bonner too. I think that both Tony and Manu are purposely taking a back seat to trying to let others lead the offense, and I think that contributes to the awful looks occasionally. Neither Manu or Tony seem to know exactly what to do with themselves when they are not leading, so it will be interesting to see if the great experiment continues.

What I noticed in last night's game was how much better the offense looked when we started using known, set plays in the fourth. It was as if Pop said, "Okay, I've tried this and that and the other, but right now we are going back to the motion offense". Sets looked crisper and the shots were less contested. (Maybe it was Cav's defense breaking down from its earlier intensity, not sure). Thing is, even with the set offense working, the absence of our best three point shooters is obvious and it really holds down our scoring. I think we forget how much that contributed last year.

Parker looks a mess. I do think he is a step slower this year, and I think that Tiago's absence on the pnr offensive set is impacting us more than we realized. Tony did play a hell of a defensive game last night against Kyrie, but his offense - wow!

[wildchild]

:lol
Boris was great and Kawhi has improved considerably when attacking the rim through penetrations this season.

[heyheymymy]

3. Cory Joseph is actually a good back-up pg. Gives you solid minutes, improved midrange jumper and has the quickness to drive and penetrate to the hoop. Fearless.


did you see that cojo coast to coast with the slick behind the back and a finish on the reverse lay in? very polished. the mins will pay off huge, and by jan spurs will have mills to run with a upgraded cojo.

[wildchild]

Neither Manu or Tony seem to know exactly what to do with themselves when they are not leading, so it will be interesting to see if the great experiment continues.

Agree but they aren't getting any younger so they just need to adapt and evolve their games. I'm not concerned about this, all players have undergone this process in their careers.

[PingPong]

Tiago's absence has some negative impact in the offense too? Without his screens, they are struggling to shoot. Cavs didn't played their best by far, Love won't be so shy again, Le Bron was too passive, Irving looked lost. I think Yesterday game isn't a parameter for the Cavs.

[wildchild]

Lebron scored what, 15 pts on 6-17 shooting? There's a reason for that, thank god for these two niggas.
:tu

http://i.imgur.com/0yB5HMYl.jpg

[100%duncan]

Tiago's absence has some negative impact in the offense too? Without his screens, they are struggling to shoot. Cavs didn't played their best by far, Love won't be so shy again, Le Bron was too passive, Irving looked lost. I think Yesterday game isn't a parameter for the Cavs.

Yes and the spurs will not be unhealthy again in June.

[100%duncan]

:tu

http://i.imgur.com/0yB5HMYl.jpg

Not to mention 6 of those 15 pts came from 2 quick threes at the start of the game which didn't really matter in the long run. It's amazing how Leonard contains the best player of the planet tbh. Even in the finals, Bron's points came when we were already up by double digits.

[Mal]

Not to mention 6 of those 15 pts came from 2 quick threes at the start of the game which didn't really matter in the long run. It's amazing how Leonard contains the best player of the planet tbh. Even in the finals, Bron's points came when we were already up by double digits.

Hustle and natural ability to stay within

[Mr. Body]

The offense is struggling, but I assume the 3s will start falling at some point. Even if not to last year's levels, a higher percentage will blow many of these games open. Missing Belinelli and Mills hurts.

Ginobili isn't a factor to drive much anymore. That hurts to see, as a fan, but this does hurt the second unit a lot.

Daye is getting enough rope but right now he's not making it pay off.

Joseph is playing well. I'm liking his fearless attitude. His defense is fun to watch.

Leonard and Green are a luxury to have on defense. Superb players.

Cleveland will take a lot more time to get it together. Kevin Love is an empty-stat guy. I forgot he even played. Irving needs to change his mindset or get shipped off somewhere. I don't think LeBron expects to win this year at all, but some work needs to be done to get there.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Kawhi and Danny cant make a 3 right now. They'll snap out of their funk sooner than later no doubt. In the mean time i wished kawhi would handle the ball in a pick n roll situation more . I can remember last year in the golden state game (where the big 3 sat out) he handled the PnR fine. He looked real natural imo, he was creating, hitting a smooth pull up off it, etc etc.

[EVAY]

Kawhi and Danny cant make a 3 right now. They'll snap out of their funk sooner than later no doubt. In the mean time i wished kawhi would handle the ball in a pick n roll situation more . I can remember last year in the golden state game (where the big 3 sat out) he handled the PnR fine. He looked real natural imo, he was creating, hitting a smooth pull up off it, etc etc.

but Tiago was in that game, wasn't he?

I honestly think we are trying to assess team performance in the absence of the full team.

I think we have all learned how much Tiago has helped in the past.

I am glad to see Baynes getting the practice in with the first team...it helps him develop and he does seem to improve a bit from game to game. But we really miss Tiago.

[Brazil]

The lack of 3 pts shooting is not helping the spacing and the spacing was not very good imo this game...

As others said, winning games based on Defense overall very solid great at times with an O messy is a strong fundation. Defense is putting Spurs in a reasonable good shape in the W/L column.

Regarding Diaw and Parker I'm not surprised by this game... It is quite clear that against Lebron Spurs like to go through Boris and let him handle the ball.

Offensively Parker was not good but I thought he played good defense especially in the fourth against Irving.

There are no reasons imo to be concerned by the Offensive struggle of this team, they will figure out soon enough.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

but Tiago was in that game, wasn't he?

I honestly think we are trying to assess team performance in the absence of the full team.

I think we have all learned how much Tiago has helped in the past.

I am glad to see Baynes getting the practice in with the first team...it helps him develop and he does seem to improve a bit from game to game. But we really miss Tiago.

Yeah him and tiago were ballin that game iirc

[ElNono]

can't be a coincidence that it happened with beli out.. now if danny and kawhi would make their open threes, everything would be great.

We were top 3 with Beli playing all year last season... you can't just pin that on only one player, IMO... I think what we're seeing is a team that know their rotations well, pays attention to detail (transition defense, etc), and lately has been turning the ball over much, much less... there's also the fact that other teams, outside of maybe Sacto, haven't really hit their stride yet...

[Cry Havoc]

I think it's a lot easier to go through a season with your defense in synch and to drag your offense along than to have an elite offense and try to shore the defense up later in the year.

Maybe it's good that Tiago's out. Keeps our guys active on the perimeter knowing they don't have the extra big to help shut down interior penetration.

[Beaverfuzz]

Not to mention 6 of those 15 pts came from 2 quick threes at the start of the game which didn't really matter in the long run. It's amazing how Leonard contains the best player of the planet tbh. Even in the finals, Bron's points came when we were already up by double digits.


Yep, in reality the one basket (and 1) by LBJ where he did fake out KL in the third and the last layup (which I can't remember if KL was on him or not) were Lebron's highlights. Well that and missing the inbounds pass and dribbling off his leg but who's counting?

[Mr Bones]

Kyrie Irving looks lost in Cleveland. He needs to be traded for two lesser but more system-fit players for LeBron.

I agree. His stock is high now, and they could get easily two good defenders who score 8-10 ppg each for him. A shoot first/no defense PG is not what that team needs.

[Old School 44]

Diaw was great tonight. Hopefully this game grows his confidence and he becomes a legitimate 2nd or 3rd option when Manu or Tony is off their game.

I sometimes think Diaw can be anything he wants to be on the basketball floor. He's that good. For whatever reason, he just chooses not too. He seems to be such a carefree guy. I wonder how he'd play if he was really angry with his opponent.

[Cry Havoc]

I agree. His stock is high now, and they could get easily two good defenders who score 8-10 ppg each for him. A shoot first/no defense PG is not what that team needs.

What teams need a 2nd tier PG and have a ton of stock to give?

Maybe Irving to Boston for Rondo? I feel like Rondo would fit in better to the Cavs system than Irving, although he's hardly an ideal player.

Irving for Beverly and Ariza?

[EVAY]

I sometimes think Diaw can be anything he wants to be on the basketball floor. He's that good. For whatever reason, he just chooses not too. He seems to be such a carefree guy. I wonder how he'd play if he was really angry with his opponent.

I agree with this. The guy looks positively serene most times on the floor. He is so unflappable, but so talented. The one thing he is NOT, apparently, is driven...which just makes it all the more interesting to watch him.

[Mr Bones]

What teams need a 2nd tier PG and have a ton of stock to give?

Maybe Irving to Boston for Rondo? I feel like Rondo would fit in better to the Cavs system than Irving, although he's hardly an ideal player.

Irving for Beverly and Ariza?

A guy like George Hill comes to mind... or Shabazz Napier/ Josh McRoberts for Irving + someone else?

[Splits]

Austin Daye made a 3 pointer. I almost shit myself.

[szkorhetz]

Leonard is bad as fuck on offense, TBH. He is forcing too much, always tries to post-up, even the bigger, stronger LBJ. That's not the kind of offense we need from him. I loved him in Finals Game 3-4-5, because he did not force anything just let it come for him. But now he is forcing and that makes him look garbage.

If the Cavs don't get a shot blocking presence, they will lose in the second round, TBH. Their defense is so bad that our offense which was like at 35% of what it is best capable of, easily killed them.

[spurraider21]

Game would've been easier if Kyrie didn't go all Steph Curry at one point

[ElNono]

Game would've been easier if Kyrie didn't go all Steph Curry at one point

Lots of if's, tbh... if we hit 3s at a respectable rate, this is likely a blowout win too

[timtonymanu]

The Cavs have room for improvement but damn, the Spurs are a bad matchup for them. :lol

[Silver&Black]

Kyrie Irving looks lost in Cleveland. He needs to be traded for two lesser but more system-fit players for LeBron.

I agree with you that Kyrie looks lost in Cleveland. But...what trade proposal do you suggest? Cause I don't think too many teams are ready to take on that 90 million.

Well...not too many western conference teams imo.

[MI21]

Yep, in reality the one basket (and 1) by LBJ where he did fake out KL in the third and the last layup (which I can't remember if KL was on him or not) were Lebron's highlights. Well that and missing the inbounds pass and dribbling off his leg but who's counting?

The last layup was with Tim Duncan trying to defend him out at the 3pt line, so really, LeBron score what, 4 baskets on Leonard?

[Venti Quattro]

I agree with you that Kyrie looks lost in Cleveland. But...what trade proposal do you suggest? Cause I don't think too many teams are ready to take on that 90 million.

Well...not too many western conference teams imo.

Dragic + filler for Kyrie

Both parties remain in contention for the playoffs and they get the upgrade that they need.

[Silver&Black]

Dragic + filler for Kyrie

Both parties remain in contention for the playoffs and they get the upgrade that they need.

Suns would have to throw in a helluva "filler" to get Kyrie.

BTW...Is Kyrie really that big of an improvement over the Dragon? Don't see the Suns ever doing that deal....

[Venti Quattro]

Suns would have to throw in a helluva "filler" to get Kyrie.

BTW...Is Kyrie really that big of an improvement over the Dragon? Don't see the Suns ever doing that deal....

I tried the ESPN trade machine and every trade that worked is massively in favor of Phoenix. Basically it's Kyrie and Amundson for Goran and a bunch of scrubs whose names I didn't even take note of. There's another viable proposal out there somewhere, but Phoenix for me is out of the equation.

[100%duncan]

Dragic + filler for Kyrie

Both parties remain in contention for the playoffs and they get the upgrade that they need.

Why would phx want another ball dominany pg. Bledsoe thomas kyrie all chucking 3s in a do or die game in the playoffs, what a sight.

[Robz4000]

Dragic + filler for Kyrie

Both parties remain in contention for the playoffs and they get the upgrade that they need.

Dragic wants to play PG, not be a spot up shooter. Cleveland would be trading for the same kinda player they'd be trying to trade.

[Venti Quattro]

Dragic wants to play PG, not be a spot up shooter. Cleveland would be trading for the same kinda player they'd be trying to trade.

At first I thought about that. However, it looks like Cleveland really needs a point guard beside LeBron. He can't do everything. Dragic can play point guard, he can score and slash, and he doesn't shoot (nor does not have the penchant to chuck) as much as Kyrie does. Sounds good to me tbh. However, any PHX-CLE trade wouldn't work so it's kinda pointless.

[Venti Quattro]

Why would phx want another ball dominany pg. Bledsoe thomas kyrie all chucking 3s in a do or die game in the playoffs, what a sight.

That's why I also said that a PHX-CLE is out of the question. Forgot to mention that, my bad. Bledsoe and Kyrie alone would be hard-pressed to work because both need the ball to be effective. If anything, Phoenix is probably looking to trade for a shooting guard or center.

[Robz4000]

At first I thought about that. However, it looks like Cleveland really needs a point guard beside LeBron. He can't do everything. Dragic can play point guard, he can score and slash, and he doesn't shoot (nor does not have the penchant to chuck) as much as Kyrie does.

True, but if they trade Kyrie they'll be trading for a PG in the mold of Beverly who can play without the ball and give them some D on the perimeter. Besides, if Irving goes they can keep Waiters who can handle the ball a bit; they'll also have Delladova to cover some minutes.

[100%duncan]

That's why I also said that a PHX-CLE is out of the question. Forgot to mention that, my bad. Bledsoe and Kyrie alone would be hard-pressed to work because both need the ball to be effective. If anything, Phoenix is probably looking to trade for a shooting guard or center.

Yep. They got 3 already decent to great pg's and trading Dragic for Kyrie might be even worse than a lateral move. Although for Cleveland, I think it would be an upgrade obviously. One can say that Dragic wants to facilitate well he can in Cleveland. Lebron running point-forward at this point of his career is not so efficient anymore, having a pg like will not only improve the team but help Lebron ease out a bit.

[Silver&Black]

I tried the ESPN trade machine and every trade that worked is massively in favor of Phoenix. Basically it's Kyrie and Amundson for Goran and a bunch of scrubs whose names I didn't even take note of. There's another viable proposal out there somewhere, but Phoenix for me is out of the equation.

It's going to be an Eastern conference team.....if anything.

Too many quality PGs in the west tbh. No Western Conference team would make that deal. It's not because Kyrie sucks (I'm not saying that at all)...it's because the salaries don't add up. You would have to give up a King's ransom to get Kyrie......

[Venti Quattro]

Besides, if Irving goes they can keep Waiters who can handle the ball a bit; they'll also have Delladova to cover some minutes.

Let's be honest here homie.

If you're a championship-contending team, or you say you want a championship NOW...

And you trust your ball-handling and other point guard chores to Dion Waiters and Matthew Dellevadova....

:lol :lol :lol

I wouldn't.

[Robz4000]

Let's be honest here homie.

If you're a championship-contending team, or you say you want a championship NOW...

And you trust your ball-handling to Dion Waiters and Matthew Dellevadova....

:lol :lol :lol

They'd be third/fourth options obviously. The PG they trade for would handle ball handling duties when Lebron isn't.

[Venti Quattro]

They'd be third/fourth options obviously. The PG they trade for would handle ball handling duties when Lebron isn't.

That's why I think Goran Dragic fits well. Too bad both teams won't find an amicable trade unless they try to hose each other. Although I agree with you, Pat bev would be a very great point guard for LeBron. Would Houston let him go? Probably not. He's the only thing keeping opposing backcourts from dropping 30 on the Rockets backcourt every game.

[Robz4000]

That's why I think Goran Dragic fits well. Too bad both teams won't find an amicable trade unless they try to hose each other. Although I agree with you, Pat bev would be a very great point guard for LeBron. Would Houston let him go? Probably not. He's the only thing keeping opposing backcourts from dropping 30 on the Rockets backcourt every game.

Morey might just be dumb enough to. Lets not forget he gave Jeremy Rin a $30 mil contract...

[scanry]

That's why I think Goran Dragic fits well. Too bad both teams won't find an amicable trade unless they try to hose each other. Although I agree with you, Pat bev would be a very great point guard for LeBron. Would Houston let him go? Probably not. He's the only thing keeping opposing backcourts from dropping 30 on the Rockets backcourt every game.

Nah dude. Ball dominant players like Lebron, MJ & Kobe never won sh!t with ball dominant PGs. They need a Johnny Pax or a Derek Fish type of pg to thrive. What the Cavs need right now is a Roy Hibbert who can protect the paint and settle their offense when Kyrie, Lebron & Waiters start to iso teams to death.

Iso ball never won championships not counting DK's Bulls tbh.

[100%duncan]

Nah dude. Ball dominant players like Lebron, MJ & Kobe never won sh!t with ball dominant PGs. They need a Johnny Pax or a Derek Fish type of pg to thrive. What the Cavs need right now is a Roy Hibbert who can protect the paint and settle their offense when Kyrie, Lebron & Waiters start to iso teams to death.

Iso ball never won championships not counting DK's Bulls tbh.

Roy Hibbert would be a terrible fit... Imagine the vacation the bigs on the other team are going to take when two of your bigs can't shoot for crap. (Varejao and Hibbert) And I think Lebron and hibbert hate each other