Was Kevin Love really worth Andrew Wiggins and huge chunk of cap space?

[RsxPiimp]

Sure its early in the season, but some things wouldn't change. Love is marginalized in Cleveland, just like Bosh in Miami. All numbers are down as expected but Love's shooting has been atrocious and he still doesn't play defense which has been one of the Cavs biggest issues, at least Bosh held down the fort.

Wiggins is so raw but as far as I can see, he's been very active on the defensive end. On a team full of chuckers, I thought Wiggins would've been perfect since he does't mind doing the dirty work and he could make up for Waiters' and Irving's lack of effort on that end.


That and a $15 mil cap could also get them a big man next season (Gasol, Deandre, Hibbert, Duncan)

[PingPong]

Love have been their highest scorer. He just had a bad game.

[Mal]

That and a $15 mil cap could also get them a big man next season (Gasol, Deandre, Hibbert, Duncan)

Oh, I can see Duncan going to Cleveland, I can see how spending 15 mil on Hibbert or Jordan is better than signing Love. Yeah, all make sense to me

[RsxPiimp]

I was kidding with the mention of Duncan. I knew over sensitive Spursfan would take the bait.

[SupremeGuy]

http://melem1.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/lol-i-troll-you1.png

[Chomag]

Keven isnt the issue he has been one of the most consistant players they have. Irving is the problem imo. He either just doesn't get it or doesn't want to try get it. I'm not sure how they thought a volume shooting, ball dominant pg would fit in well with Bron. So yes I think the trade was worth it it just was the wrong player lol

[RsxPiimp]

Oh, I can see Duncan going to Cleveland, I can see how spending 15 mil on Hibbert or Jordan is better than signing Love. Yeah, all make sense to me

Actually, yes, a big man would be better than Love and his no defense and 39% shooting form. It's a matter of fit. Hibbert is possibly a bad fit but I could see Deandre or Gasol fitting there.

[RsxPiimp]

Love have been their highest scorer. He just had a bad game.

Scoring isn't the issue:lol

[100%duncan]

Yes but doesnt say much. Regular season stat padder

[Mal]

Actually, yes, a big man would be better than Love and his no defense and 39% shooting form. It's a matter of fit. Hibbert is possibly a bad fit but I could see Deandre or Gasol fitting there.

Jordan sucks, not worth 15 mil, and they have Varejao. Marc Gasol will be hot FA

[jag]

As unimpressive as Love has been so far, Wiggins is has been worse defensively, worse offensively and overall a negative contributor when on the floor.

[RsxPiimp]

Jordan sucks, not worth 15 mil, and they have Varejao. Marc Gasol will be hot FA

Yeah but Varejao is unreliable.

[AaronY]

Have you watched Wiggins? He's years away. Maybe they could have gotten a better player for him but the idea of getting a guy who could contribute now was a good one with how raw and inconsistent Wiggins has looked.

[Raven]

Oh, I can see Duncan going to Cleveland, I can see how spending 15 mil on Hibbert or Jordan is better than signing Love. Yeah, all make sense to me

wiggins and hibbert with lebron and varejao? that's some scary shit right there..

[Floyd Pacquiao]

They need a shot blocking presence to bail out their bad defenders, tbh.

[Raven]

Have you watched Wiggins? He's years away. Maybe they could have gotten a better player for him but the idea of getting a guy who could contribute now was a good one with how raw and inconsistent Wiggins has looked.

that's how bad teams are created tbh..

[AaronY]

that's how bad teams are created tbh..
Trading away raw players who may never amount to anything for all stars? Ask Dallas fans if they wish they had taken any of those offers for Roddy B right now or Detroit if they had taken any of the offers for Amir Johnson.

[DMC]

With Lebron on a 2 year deal, they weren't in rebuilding mode. It's gotta be win now, go for broke. They did.

[Raven]

Trading away raw players who may never amount to anything for all stars? Ask Dallas fans if they wish they had taken any of those offers for Roddy B right now or Detroit if they had taken any of the offers for Amir Johnson.

i don't see how is that related tbh.. selling high yes, but if you have to take in players that do not defend selling high is debatable..

[Raven]

With Lebron on a 2 year deal, they weren't in rebuilding mode. It's gotta be win now, go for broke. They did.

meh, i don't agree in the slightest..

[RsxPiimp]

Saw the game live yesterday, Kevin Love was absolutely horrible defensively :lmao I mean, that was the first time I've seen him live so I know its nothing new, but goodness gracious he was atrocious :lol


In a penetration heavy league, the Cavs need a rim protector and not an offensive threat PF who will be used as a 3rd option :lol


Maybe it's just one game, but his stats also shows he gives up as much points if nor more than he scored, ala Kobe :lol

[mavsfan1000]

Maybe Kevin Love needs to come off the bench in a 6th man role.

[313]

Maybe Kevin Love needs to come off the bench in a 6th man role.
Kyrie should come off the bench imo

[StrengthAndHonor]

Most Cavs fans aren't too fond of Love I think, but they don't necessarily regret the Wiggins/Bennett for Love trade. They know what Love brings on the table and managements prerogative is to win now.


They can still deal Waiters if they really need a big man. It may not be the quality of Gasol or Hibbert or even Jordan but if they can keep the same trio plus another rim protector, they'll be alright.

[Aztecfan03]

Oh, I can see Duncan going to Cleveland, I can see how spending 15 mil on Hibbert or Jordan is better than signing Love. Yeah, all make sense to me

but would you rather have Love than one of those PLUS Wiggins?

[StrengthAndHonor]

but would you rather have Love than one of those PLUS Wiggins?

If we're guaranteed another big man in the off-season, I'd definitely keep Wiggins and use that cap space to address our deficiencies.

[Thread]

^Bend over. I'll address your fuckin' deficiencies.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Aww, Dale. show some class.

[StrengthAndHonor]

In a penetration heavy league, the Cavs need a rim protector and not an offensive threat PF who will be used as a 3rd option :lol


Maybe it's just one game, but his stats also shows he gives up as much points if nor more than he scored, ala Kobe :lol

The Cavaliers' roster exacerbates Love's defensive limitationsThere's no denying it: Love is one of the worst big men in the league at protecting the rim, allowing a 67.2 percent field goal percentage within six feet. Part of Love's struggles comes down to physical limitations -- he doesn't have the length or the quickness to cover ground -- but there are also bad habits in play, as he doesn't even try to contest shots at times. Other poor defensive big men have the benefit of sharing the court with teammates that mask their flaws. Love doesn't have that luxury.
Anderson Varejao (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21848/anderson-varejao) and Tristan Thompson (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/149911/tristan-thompson) are both good defensive big men, but it's asking quite a lot of them to defend their own position and also help out Love. The only plus defender in the perimeter is LeBron James. The team's defensive scheme isn't helping, either. If the Cavs settle into a more conservative approach by dropping their big men in the pick-and-roll, it could potentially hide some of Love's limitations.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/22/7267901/kevin-love-role-cleveland-cavaliers

[Chris]

No shotblockers. Elliott was dead on

[LkrFan]

Kyrie should come off the bench imo

Stupid comment. Not only he's #2, he's their closer.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Stupid comment. He's their closer.

Lebron?

[LkrFan]

Lebron?

Did you watch his 2 Finals "wins?" He's no closer.

[jimbo]

Trading away raw players who may never amount to anything for all stars? Ask Dallas fans if they wish they had taken any of those offers for Roddy B right now or Detroit if they had taken any of the offers for Amir Johnson.

Yeah, you should probably look at the #1 picks who have busted vs the ones who haven't. The likelihood of success between the #1 pick and a late lottery pick is probably huge.

:lol comparing Roddy B to Wiggins

[jimbo]

and the Cavs are retarded as fuck anyways. The Great Satan wanted to coast this season which is why he wanted Kevin Love to do all of the heavy lifting. He didn't realize that he put together a fucking terrible defensive team.

:lol bidding against yourself to get Kevin Love
:lol not keeping Wiggins and getting a defensive anchor
:lol giving up on Bennett after a year on a shitty team
:lol drafting Bennett in the first place

[StrengthAndHonor]

Did you watch his 2 Finals "wins?" He's no closer.

Oh, I agree. But on a team with Kyrie and Love, I'd probably pick Lebron by default.

[LkrFan]

Oh, I agree. But on a team with Kyrie and Love, I'd probably pick Lebron by default.

LeHype wants Kyrie to be his Kerr at the end of games. Kyrie is much more than that. Kyrie can make LeHype virtually unstoppable at the end of games with his play making, but LeHype is putrid without the ball in his hands. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Baam]

They should have traded for a defensive minded big instead of Love tbh, trading Wiggins wasn't the issue...

[RsxPiimp]

and the Cavs are retarded as fuck anyways. The Great Satan wanted to coast this season which is why he wanted Kevin Love to do all of the heavy lifting. He didn't realize that he put together a fucking terrible defensive team.

:lol bidding against yourself to get Kevin Love
:lol not keeping Wiggins and getting a defensive anchor
:lol giving up on Bennett after a year on a shitty team
:lol drafting Bennett in the first place
So much truth in this post:lol

[Baam]

Honestly I'm not sure they're a trade out there that makes them title contenders... It's gonna be an headache and I think they may end up trading Irving...

PG stars have the lowest influence in the POs so that's probably the smartest move in that shitty situation...

Maybe Kyrie + complementary players for Sanders Mayo and Knight... A defensive anchor, a starting SG (kinda) and a PG who could play off the ball...

[AaronY]

Yeah, you should probably look at the #1 picks who have busted vs the ones who haven't. The likelihood of success between the #1 pick and a late lottery pick is probably huge.

:lol comparing Roddy B to Wiggins

He was drafted on potential in a weak draft. Off the top of my head guys like that in terms of potential based on a very small sample size like Olowokandi, Bargnani, and Kwami have been busts and of course were not talking about no brainers number ones like Anthony Davis or Lebron or he would still be in Cleveland.

[AaronY]

Plus if Embiid doesn't break his foot dude goes third in a shit draft since reports are Milwaukee was still taking Parker.

[Chinook]

I do think that trade was a mistake. They probably could have gotten both Asik and Ryan Anderson with their non-Wiggins assets, which would have made their roster much stronger than it is now. Then, Andrew would start as the two-guard, and his only task would be to defend the opposing team's best perimeter threat. That's a role I think he would have excelled in while everything else came. He doesn't have that luxury on the Wolves.

[Clipper Nation]

Did you watch his 2 Finals "wins?" He's no closer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30b8RM4XqNI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFl8KUq3By0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRUzPVBh64Y

Meanwhile, your "closer" Kyrie is a cancer who's never even made the playoffs.

[100%duncan]

Stupid comment. Not only he's #2, he's their closer.

If he's not a closer then Kobe isn't too.

Both mythical sons of bitches

[Raven]

^Bend over. I'll address your fuckin' deficiencies.

:lol good one

[Thread]

If he's not a closer then Kobe isn't too.

Both mythical sons of bitches

But, those 7 close outs in '10 came in mighty handy when Pierce's pants caught a fire skidding to a stop out at LAX.

tee, hee.

[Thread]

But, those 7 close outs in '10 came in mighty handy when Pierce's pants caught a fire skidding to a stop out at LAX.

tee, hee.

P.S., but wtf do you care you treat an NBA Title like a loan on a nearly paid off car.

[100%duncan]

But, those 7 close outs in '10 came in mighty handy when Pierce's pants caught a fire skidding to a stop out at LAX.

tee, hee.

Bend over and I'll show ya what's on fire

[StrengthAndHonor]

LeBron: "We're a very fragile team right now ... And this isn't even the lowest it can get"


GM Lebron is mad. Someone is gonna get shipped.

[StrengthAndHonor]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3GXhhdCIAADg6e.jpg

[StrengthAndHonor]

This guy is so soft tbh. He's easily discouraged by the slightest challenge.

[Thread]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3GXhhdCIAADg6e.jpg

Or, have it in the gd case, counting your money selling the shit on the tv and all the sudden here comes the law wanting it back.

Amy

[StrengthAndHonor]

Or, have it in the gd case, counting your money selling the shit on the tv and all the sudden here comes the law wanting it back.

Amy

No bend over jokes this morning?

[Thread]

No bend over jokes this morning?

No, I'm half asleep, tryin' to get this coffee to kick in.

[StrengthAndHonor]

No, I'm half asleep, tryin' to get this coffee to kick in.

:lol

[RsxPiimp]

This guy is so soft tbh. He's easily discouraged by the slightest challenge.

you don't win back2back if you're soft.

[LkrFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30b8RM4XqNI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFl8KUq3By0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRUzPVBh64Y

Meanwhile, your "closer" Kyrie is a cancer who's never even made the playoffs.

Mike Miller bailed him out. Then Ray Allen followed suit. Otherwise he's an 0-fer, like Phillip Rivers. :lol

[LkrFan]

If he's not a closer then Kobe isn't too.

Both mythical sons of bitches
For better (5 Finals wins) or for worst (2 Finals losses), Kobe has been our closer since he was 21. 5-2 >>>>>>>>>> 2**-3.



** denotes a bailout by Mike Miller and Ray Allen in consecutive years.

:lol

[100%duncan]

For better (5 Finals wins) or for worst (2 Finals losses), Kobe has been our closer since he was 21. 5-2 >>>>>>>>>> 2**-3.



** denotes a bailout by Mike Miller and Ray Allen in consecutive years.

:lol

Also more misses during crunch time. -25 points son! :lol

[LkrFan]

Also more misses during crunch time. -25 points son! :lol

:lol

[Chinook]

LeBron: "We're a very fragile team right now ... And this isn't even the lowest it can get"


GM Lebron is mad. Someone is gonna get shipped.

GM Lebron is what keeps messing up the Cavs in the first place. It's hard to blame him too much, though. Any team built around him is going to be extremely flawed.

[RsxPiimp]

GM Lebron is what keeps messing up the Cavs in the first place. It's hard to blame him too much, though. Any team built around him is going to be extremely flawed.

how so

[Chinook]

how so

He's an SF who plays in the post and insists on being the PG. It's all well and good that he can do so much for a team, but that really marginalizes the rest of the lineup. He can't play next to traditional bigs anymore, which is why Love and Bosh had to give up so much. That's also why his teams can't protect the paint, since they give up so much size in return for spacing. He can't let the PG handle the ball, so Irving is pretty much shooting whenever he touches the ball. That's also what encourages them to play Waiters at the one even though he's not good at it.

The only reason why Wade and James worked together is because they are pretty much the same player and just took turns trading off. But even with that, the Heat were weak when they weren't winning their gambles. Until Lebron moves to the four full time and gives up the ball, his teams can't hope to play traditional lineups.

[Baam]

Good read :

http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/11/23/cavonometry-games-11-12-6-9-exposes-pine/ (http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/11/23/cavonometry-games-11-12-6-9-exposes-pine/)



Deja’ View: Cavs of 2014-15 vs. Heat of 2010-11 (thru 12 games)


Miami 8-4 (+10.8 margin average)


Cleveland 5-7 (-0.9 margin average)


The well-remembered benchmark was Miami going 9-8 in its first 17 games with James-Wade-Bosh and company…just before going on a 21-1 rampage. Cleveland still has a chance to get to 9-8 with a 4-1 run. But there is very little in the stats or eye test that would suggest greatness is just a couple of weeks away.


Cleveland did have that fantastic game vs. Atlanta last week. In 2010-11, Miami had four wins of 23 points or more in its first 11 games.


Let’s note though that running into the best two teams in the current Eastern standings on the heels of defending World Champion San Antonio at the end of a brutal fatigue stretch is creating a polluted read. What’s ahead for a fresher team is going to be much easier.

[Raven]

finding similarities between miami and cleveland is pretty hard, miami could defend lights out and were getting most of their points out of transition baskets. That is never going to happen in cleveland with love, waiters and irving..

[DMC]

It's borderline retarded to think that, because Miami did it a certain way, when you see that way again it's going to have the same outcome or that it should. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, huge fallacy that's overused by media and fans alike. "In Miami, they lost blah blah blah before they won" but guess what, other teams lost blah blah blah and didn't win shit, so to think a team is going to suddenly turn it around because Miami did is just basically retarded thinking. It's possible they do, there's precedence, but losing is not a pattern for winning.

That said, the idea that Lebron is taking time off while employed is not far fetched, but I don't see his ego allowing him to keep losing games. Eventually he's going to turn to the coaching staff and say "fix this shit" and they will and that will be that, but it's not like Miami by a long shot because Wade was seeing the playoffs yearly when he was healthy, Irving, not so much.

[jimbo]

He was drafted on potential in a weak draft. Off the top of my head guys like that in terms of potential based on a very small sample size like Olowokandi, Bargnani, and Kwami have been busts and of course were not talking about no brainers number ones like Anthony Davis or Lebron or he would still be in Cleveland.


Plus if Embiid doesn't break his foot dude goes third in a shit draft since reports are Milwaukee was still taking Parker.

Lol this isn't a shit draft, not even close. Not even remotely close. It's a raw draft.

and three guys out of the entirety of #1 picks that you can think of. Great job proving my point man. Either you've got a shit memory or #1 picks don't bust often.

[jimbo]

The only reason why Wade and James worked together is because they are pretty much the same player and just took turns trading off. But even with that, the Heat were weak when they weren't winning their gambles. Until Lebron moves to the four full time and gives up the ball, his teams can't hope to play traditional lineups.

They didn't do this much after 2011, not nearly enough to warrant mentioning it

[Quadzilla99]

Lol this isn't a shit draft, not even close. Not even remotely close. It's a raw draft.

and three guys out of the entirety of #1 picks that you can think of. Great job proving my point man. Either you've got a shit memory or #1 picks don't bust often.

Draft had depth but the top was weak after EMbiid broke his foot and Wiggins is raw as hell and a total risk/reward home run pick regardless of where he was drafted. Especially considering how much he coasted/disappointed scouts at KU.

[jimbo]

Draft had depth but the top was weak after EMbiid broke his foot and Wiggins is raw as hell and a total risk/reward home run pick regardless of where he was drafted. Especially considering how much he coasted/disappointed scouts at KU.

Embiid was even more raw than Wiggins, top was the same regardless of Embiid breaking his foot. He wouldn't have been a meaningful contributor this year in any possible circumstance. The 76ers are trying to lose games, not win them.

Wiggins is definitely raw, literally everyone in the lotto was. That doesn't make it a bad draft, just one that you have to wait a few years to see the results of.

[AaronY]

Lol this isn't a shit draft, not even close. Not even remotely close. It's a raw draft.

and three guys out of the entirety of #1 picks that you can think of. Great job proving my point man. Either you've got a shit memory or #1 picks don't bust often.
So let me get this straight Embiid doesn't break his foot, Wiggins goes third and then he's not a cant miss prospect. Now he goesfirst and is a can't miss prospect despite being the same player?

Good point. Makes sense.

[Quadzilla99]

Embiid was even more raw than Wiggins, top was the same regardless of Embiid breaking his foot. He wouldn't have been a meaningful contributor this year in any possible circumstance. The 76ers are trying to lose games, not win them.

Wiggins is definitely raw, literally everyone in the lotto was. That doesn't make it a bad draft, just one that you have to wait a few years to see the results of.

Embiid was the consensus number one before breaking his foot. Plus if he didnt break his foot he'd probably be in Cleveland seeing as to how their biggest need is a rim protector. But maybe Lebron makes them trade him for Love, I dunno.

[Quadzilla99]

I do think that trade was a mistake. They probably could have gotten both Asik and Ryan Anderson with their non-Wiggins assets, which would have made their roster much stronger than it is now. Then, Andrew would start as the two-guard, and his only task would be to defend the opposing team's best perimeter threat. That's a role I think he would have excelled in while everything else came. He doesn't have that luxury on the Wolves.

Why would NO trade Asik or Anderson though? They're awesome role players and relatively young. Plus Davis is awesome right now so there is no need to be build for the far off future. They can compete in the next few years with that core and a little tinkering.

[jimbo]

So let me get this straight Embiid doesn't break his foot, Wiggins goes third and then he's not a cant miss prospect. Now he goesfirst and is a can't miss prospect despite being the same player?

Good point. Makes sense.


And in any world this is a better comparison than comparing the risk/reward of drafting or trading Wiggins to Roddy Beaubois.

When I'm competing with a comparison that bad I could literally take a shit on a piece of paper, upload the picture and still come out looking pretty. If you want to make me work harder, you're gonna have to do the same.



Embiid was the consensus number one before breaking his foot. Plus if he didnt break his foot he'd probably be in Cleveland seeing as to how their biggest need is a rim protector. But maybe Lebron makes them trade him for Love, I dunno.

Well breaking his foot added onto the already existing questions about his back. Apparently his physical with the Cavs was the tipping point behind not drafting him. If that was the case, his foot might have not even mattered.

And do you really think you can predict how the Cavs are going to draft? I'm betting you didn't see them picking Tristan Thomspon in the lotto a few years ago or Bennett last year. It's a lot more rare nowadays to draft based on need. Most teams are just grabbing who they think is the most "can't miss" prospect. (although overall fit and attitude plays into it also. I think that's why the Bucks picked Parker. Sanders is definitely not good enough to avoid drafting Embiid over had they thought he was that good. Parker actually wants to be there.)

The other problem is that the Cavs really really love Varejao. They should have traded him a few years ago when he had that monster start to open up the season but they refused to. I don't know who the hell they would draft that would overcome their love for him tbh....

& Bron was making them trade for Love regardless imo. He left Miami because he was tired of carrying his team, he'd have to do that even more had they drafted Embiid.

[Quadzilla99]

And in any world this is a better comparison than comparing the risk/reward of drafting or trading Wiggins to Roddy Beaubois.

When I'm competing with a comparison that bad I could literally take a shit on a piece of paper, upload the picture and still come out looking pretty. If you want to make me work harder, you're gonna have to do the same.




Well breaking his foot added onto the already existing questions about his back. Apparently his physical with the Cavs was the tipping point behind not drafting him. If that was the case, his foot might have not even mattered.

And do you really think you can predict how the Cavs are going to draft? I'm betting you didn't see them picking Tristan Thomspon in the lotto a few years ago or Bennett last year. It's a lot more rare nowadays to draft based on need. Most teams are just grabbing who they think is the most "can't miss" prospect. (although overall fit and attitude plays into it also. I think that's why the Bucks picked Parker. Sanders is definitely not good enough to avoid drafting Embiid over had they thought he was that good. Parker actually wants to be there.)

The other problem is that the Cavs really really love Varejao. They should have traded him a few years ago when he had that monster start to open up the season but they refused to. I don't know who the hell they would draft that would overcome their love for him tbh....

& Bron was making them trade for Love regardless imo. He left Miami because he was tired of carrying his team, he'd have to do that even more had they drafted Embiid.

Embiid was the consensus number one according to every news outlet before breaking his foot. You can stick your head in the sand pretend this isn't the case but it is. Wiggins freshman season was seen as a disappointment by pretty much everyone and raised red flags about him. He's raw and a big gamble so it would have been flat out stupid to keep him given Lebron's age when they could have gotten an all star in his prime. Love just looks like he is a lot worse than everyone thought he would be.

[jimbo]

Embiid was the consensus number one according to every news outlet before breaking his foot. You can stick your head in the sand pretend this isn't the case but it is. Wiggins freshman season was seen as a disappointment by pretty much everyone and raised red flags about him. He's raw and a big gamble so it would have been flat out stupid to keep him given Lebron's age when they could have gotten an all star in his prime. Love just looks like he is a lot worse than everyone thought he would be.

Hey, I'm the one dealing in reality, you're the one dealing in mock drafts.

[LkrFan]

He's an SF who plays in the post and insists on being the PG. It's all well and good that he can do so much for a team, but that really marginalizes the rest of the lineup. He can't play next to traditional bigs anymore, which is why Love and Bosh had to give up so much. That's also why his teams can't protect the paint, since they give up so much size in return for spacing. He can't let the PG handle the ball, so Irving is pretty much shooting whenever he touches the ball. That's also what encourages them to play Waiters at the one even though he's not good at it.

The only reason why Wade and James worked together is because they are pretty much the same player and just took turns trading off. But even with that, the Heat were weak when they weren't winning their gambles. Until Lebron moves to the four full time and gives up the ball, his teams can't hope to play traditional lineups.
Truth.com

[Quadzilla99]

Hey, I'm the one dealing in reality, you're the one dealing in mock drafts.

In your reality Wiggins is a can't miss prospect who has better value than what was considered a top 10-15 player in the league so must be some sort of bizarro reality that can only be seen by sticking your head up your ass.

[jimbo]

In your reality Wiggins is a can't miss prospect who has better value than what was considered a top 10-15 player in the league so must be some sort of bizarro reality that can only be seen by sticking your head up your ass.

He alone doesn't have better value than Kevin Love, but Wiggins + Bennett + the Miami 1st rounder + cap space > Kevin Love. They'd lose a year waiting to use that cap space, but hey it's not like they're the championship favorites this year anyways... I've been pretty consistent with this opinion since before the trade happened.

And damn bro you're getting mad. I'm sorry reality didn't align up with the mock drafts. Can't change that, but if you wanna go ahead and regale me with tales of Embiid before he broke his foot--do it.

[Chinook]

They didn't do this much after 2011, not nearly enough to warrant mentioning it

They did it in the Finals this past season. If you meant that as a shot a Wade's production, that's a different thing. The point is that Wade and James didn't really fit together on offense as much as they just stayed out of each other's way.

[Chinook]

Why would NO trade Asik or Anderson though? They're awesome role players and relatively young. Plus Davis is awesome right now so there is no need to be build for the far off future. They can compete in the next few years with that core and a little tinkering.

Well, they didn't have Asik until later in the off-season. The Rockets were looking for some type of compensation, and they probably would have taken some of Cleveland's haul over the NO pick. New Orleans had apparently been considering trading Anderson for a while already. I could totally see a package around Thompson as having been enough for the Pelicans to move him had they not gotten Asik.

[jimbo]

They did it in the Finals this past season. If you meant that as a shot a Wade's production, that's a different thing. The point is that Wade and James didn't really fit together on offense as much as they just stayed out of each other's way.

I mean now that you're saying it I can see it, but I feel like it's disingenuous to say that because the Lebron Heat teams that won championships relied on Dwyane Wade's off ball movement. They did fit together, and that's how they won championships. When they didn't play together well, they won nothing. Lebron might have gotten his numbers in last year's finals but the offense overall wasn't anything amazing. (esp in comparison to the Spurs')


There's better articles and videos out there, but this is the basic idea...I'll find you some better examples if you want.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qKOtGR20SA

[Chinook]

I mean now that you're saying it I can see it, but I feel like it's disingenuous to say that because the Lebron Heat teams that won championships relied on Dwyane Wade's off ball movement. They did fit together, and that's how they won championships. When they didn't play together well, they won nothing. Lebron might have gotten his numbers in last year's finals but the offense overall wasn't anything amazing. (esp in comparison to the Spurs')


There's better articles and videos out there, but this is the basic idea...I'll find you some better examples if you want.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qKOtGR20SA

I think that shows that Wade can play off the ball, not that he was a good fit with James. Bosh can shoot threes, but he really didn't fit well with Lebron and Wade, because he bread was buttered in the high post. In the same way that Bosh's spacing was critical to the Heat's success, Wade's off-ball movement allowed the Heat's offense to work. But Wade was only really Wade when he got the ball at the elbow and was allowed to go to work, which didn't happen very much when James was on the floor.

I appreciate the analysis, though. I do agree that the two played off each other more than I implied. I think that was the result of teamwork (effort on their parts to make it work), though, rather than them being complimentary in their skill-sets. It's similar to how Duncan and Splitter can play together even though neither one can maximize their play if they're together.