Currently, is there a better perimeter defender than kawhi leonard?

[apalisoc_9]

..............

[100%duncan]

Lebron if he doesn't coast. DG is a close one too, lucky he's wearing the same jersey.

[Venti Quattro]

Kevin Durant if he's not injured? Maybe not as well.

[Robz4000]

Not currently, no

[apalisoc_9]

Kevin Durant..:lmao

Lebron hasn't played a lixk of defense in the last 8345902348579325 games..Stop making him the best just because he has potential.

[100%duncan]

I think venti was joking

[100%duncan]

Kevin Durant..:lmao

Lebron hasn't played a lixk of defense in the last 8345902348579325 games..Stop making him the best just because he has potential.

Stop exaggerating also just because you love kawhi's dick

[apalisoc_9]

No one is exaggerating, stop making personal insults that's weak and Immature.

Lebron hasn't played any defense at all this year and that's not exaggerating.

[100%duncan]

:cry Corny spurs fans :cry

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Jimmy butler is up there

[apalisoc_9]

Jimmy butler is up there

Not better than Kawhi...

[MI21]

Kobe

[Uriel]

Currently, is there a bigger Kawhi fanboy than apolisoc_9?

[look_at_g_shred]

No but he'll never get the recognition that peice of shit overrated defender Paul George gets.

[spursparker9]

Nut case Tony Allen

[KaiRMD1]

I'm sure there is. Tony Allen is a pretty capable defender

[apalisoc_9]

No but he'll never get the recognition that peice of shit overrated defender Paul George gets.

I like Paul G. I think he is an elite defender.



I'm sure there is. Tony Allen is a pretty capable defender

Tony Allen :lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

Don't you have a combined thread for your Kawhi schtick? Also, why ask a question for discussion then laugh at posters' votes?

[Kawhi]

Saw players shoot 8% worse than they normally do when guarded by Tony Allen

[Mikeanaro]

Josh Smith.

[apalisoc_9]

Allen plays 26 minutes a game and decreasing, for a reason...

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Tony Allen is a good defender cause he gets away with a lot of shit. When thinking of Tony Allen though I always think about how Tony absolutely destroyed him in the 13 WCF.

[KaiRMD1]

Tony Allen is a good defender cause he gets away with a lot of shit. When thinking of Tony Allen though I always think about how Tony absolutely destroyed him in the 13 WCF.

Or this
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/tony-allen-flopping-vs-spurs1.gif

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Or this
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/tony-allen-flopping-vs-spurs1.gif:lol I had forgotten about that

[100%duncan]

Don't you have a combined thread for your Kawhi schtick? Also, why ask a question for discussion then laugh at posters' votes?

Yes and apparently, we are the immature and corny fans.

:cry

[apalisoc_9]

Tony Allen is a good defender cause he gets away with a lot of shit. When thinking of Tony Allen though I always think about how Tony absolutely destroyed him in the 13 WCF.

We will never see that Parker again...:cry

[testies]

Am I crazy to think Danny Green is better? Kawhi gets more flashy stuff like a big steal, but Green is more technically sound and I'd think he holds his opponents to lower FG%.

As much as people like to say Kawhi is a Lebron stopper, James still was shooting above 50% and basically carrying the Heat team by himself on that series, making 3s, doing everything. I think Spurs stopped Heat, not Kawhi stopped LeBron.

And btw, in the league there are plenty of better defenders than both DG and Kawhi on an individual level. Tony Allen, Jimmy Butler etc

[100%duncan]

Am I crazy to think Danny Green is better? Kawhi gets more flashy stuff like a big steal, but Green is more technically sound and I'd think he holds his opponents to lower FG%.

As much as people like to say Kawhi is a Lebron stopper, James still was shooting above 50% and basically carrying the Heat team by himself on that series, making 3s, doing everything. I think Spurs stopped Heat, not Kawhi stopped LeBron.

And btw, in the league there are plenty of better defenders than both DG and Kawhi on an individual level. Tony Allen, Jimmy Butler etc

Both no's. Lebron's ppg is bloated due to the fact that he was scoring while we were already up by double digits with Kawhi on the bench.

And Tony Allen is way past his prime, Jimmy Butler is good but not on DG or Kawhi's level.

One could argue that DG is better than Kawhi but I take the latter.

[marinoman]

off the top of my head I have
lebron when locked in
kawhi
tony allen

honarable mention
paul george
nic batum

[Splits]

wVYJULACcao

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/535539cd6da8119113c9e141/harden-pistons-d.gif

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/535539706da8118815c9e13f/james-harden-defense-lakers.gif

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/53553afa6bb3f77d58a35745/harden-swaggy-p.gif

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Danny Green is better in that he can guard a wider variety of players than Leonard. Haven't watched enough of Allen and Butler lately to compare, though.

[100%duncan]

Danny Green is better in that he can guard a wider variety of players than Leonard. Haven't watched enough of Allen and Butler lately to compare, though.

How can you say that? Kawhi can guard from 1-4. Danny, imho, only from 1-3.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

How can you say that? Kawhi can guard from 1-4. Danny, imho, only from 1-3.

Meh, Kawhi can't consistently guard 1s and 4s. Danny Green is better on 1s and on quick wings. Kawhi is better on the bulkier types. Great to have them both.

[anakha]

Who did a better job defending Westbrook in the 2014 WCF, Leonard or Green?

[100%duncan]

Who did a better job defending Westbrook in the 2014 WCF, Leonard or Green?

IIRC, DG was put on Durant.

:lol pussy didn't even warrant Kawhi in Pop's mind

[dabom]

Trying hard much?

[SnakeBoy]

Am I crazy to think Danny Green is better? Kawhi gets more flashy stuff like a big steal, but Green is more technically sound and I'd think he holds his opponents to lower FG%.


Green is impressive when he's impressive. The rest of the time he's getting yelled at as Pop sends him to the bench.

[Arcadian]

I don't think so. He has literally the biggest hands and longest arms of any perimeter player in the league. That alone makes him the most disruptive. Add to that his solid fundamentals, quickness and strength, and he's the best.

Hell, his signature move is the strip and steal leading to a dunk. Enough said.

[wildchild]

Who did a better job defending Westbrook in the 2014 WCF, Leonard or Green?

Leonard was on Westbrook Game 5, 6, the difference between their defensive performances become evident from the results, Kawhi's defense in game 5 was amazing.

They're -without doubt- the best perimeter defensive duo in the league. They complement each other, exercising their strengths and mitigating their weaknesses.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Who did a better job defending Westbrook in the 2014 WCF, Leonard or Green?

Green did. Throughout the series he was the best defender on the Spurs.

[wildchild]

As much as people like to say Kawhi is a Lebron stopper, James still was shooting above 50%...
Last game 3-11 27.2%


And btw, in the league there are plenty of better defenders than both DG and Kawhi on an individual level. Tony Allen, Jimmy Butler etc
Sure..."plenty of better defenders" but mention only two guys who, by the way, aren't better?

[wildchild]

Saw players shoot 8% worse than they normally do when guarded by Tony Allen

I read the same but Kawhi has better numbers.

Lebron
Season: 47%
vs Kawhi: 27%

Kobe
Season:38.6%
vs Kawhi: 0.7%

Rudy Gay
Season: 44%
vs Kawhi: 35%

Trevor Ariza
Season: 41.9%
vs Kawhi: 20.6%

Jamal Crawford
Season: 44.7%
vs Kawhi: 23.6%

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I read the same but Kawhi has better numbers.

Lebron
Season: 47%
vs Kawhi: 27%

Kobe
Season:38.6%
vs Kawhi: 0.7%

Rudy Gay
Season: 44%
vs Kawhi: 35%

Trevor Ariza
Season: 41.9%
vs Kawhi: 20.6%

Jamal Crawford
Season: 44.7%
vs Kawhi: 23.6%

1. Sample size is :lol
2. These are not the percentages of the possessions when guarded by Kawhi
3. Why only 5 players? Did he play 5 games? Where are Demarre Carroll, Tyreke Evans, Harrison Barnes ?

[wildchild]

1. Sample size is :lol
2. These are not the percentages of the possessions when guarded by Kawhi
3. Why only 5 players? Did he play 5 games? Where are Demarre Carroll, Tyreke Evans, Harrison Barnes ?

It can be sample size but Allen numbers aren't his all seasons.

About the other three players, I rewatched possessions of Cavs, Lakers, Kings, Rockets and Clippers games. (IIRC, Barnes was shooting great but I didn't re-watch that game).

Edit: But maybe you're right about point 2, Kobe was guarding by Green, Leonard and Joseph but didn't score over Leonard and it should be 0% instead of 0.7%.
Green defended Gay but only two possessions and that didn't change the percentage, Lebron was 3-11 over Leonard and 3-6 over the other guys, so 27% against Kawhi, etc.

[ElNono]

Tony Allen... Ariza has been doing a good job too...

[SupremeGuy]

I read the same but Kawhi has better numbers.

Lebron
Season: 47%
vs Kawhi: 27%

Kobe
Season:38.6%
vs Kawhi: 0.7%

Rudy Gay
Season: 44%
vs Kawhi: 35%

Trevor Ariza
Season: 41.9%
vs Kawhi: 20.6%

Jamal Crawford
Season: 44.7%
vs Kawhi: 23.6%Holy fuck... :lol

That's defensive MVP shit right there. Speaking of, it's pretty shitty that Timmy never got one.

[Raven]

DG is the best guard stopper in the league and kawhi is the best F stopper in the league. And honestly, it's not even close.

[testies]

Those numbers are absolutely wrong

Lebron 27%? Did yo uwatch the finals?

[superbigtime]

Or this
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/tony-allen-flopping-vs-spurs1.gif

Hilarious. The fish out of water routine is one of a kind.

[mercos]

Danny Green and Tony Allen are both on that level. I think Tiago Splitter is quietly moving up the ranks of elite defenders in the NBA as well.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Josh Smith.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/vGV0TYTiINi4enNOhbtKABNSHSg=/700x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2474774/smithsmall.0.gif

[024]

Eh, I think Spurstalk tend to overrate Leonard and Green's defense. They both are very good defenders in the right situation but still have their flaws. None of them comes close to Bowen's "never give an inch, fight through every screen, contest every shot with a hand directly in their face" defense. They might be able to do it against certain players in certain stretches but only Bowen can guard explosive point guards, Lebron and everyone in between. I haven't watched Tony Allen play this season but I would say Tony Allen is a better defender than either Leonard or Green and has that Bowen quality with added flopping.

And no one on the Spurs can guard Westbrook. I don't know where that came from. Westbrook blew past every defender and got basically any shot he wanted in the playoffs, especially down the stretch. Spurs are just fortunate Westbrook is not as talented as Durant so many of those open pull up long jumpers didn't go in.

[100%duncan]

How can you conclude that Allen is better than both if yo had not watched him recently?

[Malik Hairston]

Well, they're unquestionably the best duo by any metric you use, tbh..

The Spurs' defense has ranked in the top 2-3 in both regular season and playoffs of 2012/2013 and 2013/2014, along with the playoffs in both years, and so far in the short sample size of the 2014-15 regular season(essentially since Green and Leonard became full-time starters)..

They have also completely eliminated virtually every notable wing player in a playoff series since 2012/2013 outside of 2014 Lebron(which is skewed, since you could argue a lot of it was stat-padding), maybe 2014 Westbrook(he was inefficient, but had his moments) and maybe Monta Ellis(great moments, but extremely inefficient, and Pop didn't put Green on him until late, opting for more shooting from Belinelli, which he quickly altered in the next round:lol)..

Ranking defensive ability by just a couple of metrics is flawed and extremely difficult, you need to view the entire picture, but just using a few metrics for comparisons's sake:

Def xRAPM 2014(among players that played significant minutes against rotation players):

Iguodala- 4.6
D. Green- 2.2
Allen- 2.2
Shumpert- 1.5
Ariza- 0.9
Leonard- 1
Batum- -1
George- 1.7
Lebron - -0.8

Opponent's PER from 82games.com:
Iguodala- 11.7
Green- 10
Allen- 16.6
Shumpert- 16.6
Ariza- 15.6
Leonard- 14.7
Batum- 13.2
George- 14.1
Lebron- 14

These metrics are flawed, especially the latter, since it doesn't consider cross-matchups, and there's the obvious factor of teammates/paint anchors, too..you could also apply Synergy numbers, but those are flawed, as well..they do help paint an image of defensive impact, though..

[Cry Havoc]

Last game 3-11 27.2%


Sure..."plenty of better defenders" but mention only two guys who, by the way, aren't better?

testies might be the worst poster in the entire upstairs and that's saying a LOT.

[Mikeanaro]

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/vGV0TYTiINi4enNOhbtKABNSHSg=/700x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2474774/smithsmall.0.gif
:lol

[Mikeanaro]

Eh, I think Spurstalk tend to overrate Leonard and Green's defense. They both are very good defenders in the right situation but still have their flaws. None of them comes close to Bowen's "never give an inch, fight through every screen, contest every shot with a hand directly in their face" defense. They might be able to do it against certain players in certain stretches but only Bowen can guard explosive point guards, Lebron and everyone in between. I haven't watched Tony Allen play this season but I would say Tony Allen is a better defender than either Leonard or Green and has that Bowen quality with added flopping.

And no one on the Spurs can guard Westbrook. I don't know where that came from. Westbrook blew past every defender and got basically any shot he wanted in the playoffs, especially down the stretch. Spurs are just fortunate Westbrook is not as talented as Durant so many of those open pull up long jumpers didn't go in.
Please, nobody can guard Westbrook because refs want to keep it like that, that chimp doesnt have a 10 foot vertical leap, he doesnt run like 3000 mph or any fantastic shit people loves to say about chimp.
He is a just a clown that goes free to the rim looking for cheap calls.

[dabom]

Please, nobody can guard Westbrook because refs want to keep it like that, that chimp doesnt have a 10 foot vertical leap, he doesnt run like 3000 mph or any fantastic shit people loves to say about chimp.
He is a just a clown that goes free to the rim looking for cheap calls.

:lol

[dabom]

But seriously, DG did guard steph great, but KL did a better job of guarding Klay. Kawhi pretty much guards everyone else including point guards.
Green can't defend the bigger 3s like lebron or blockout some legit 4s like Kawhi. Kawhi even out rebounds some 4s and 5s.
That's defense the last time I heard. Anyone seriously debating green as a better perimeter defender than Kawhi is a fucking twat..

[SpurSwag]

No there isn't. I didn't think he was the best until that steal against CP3, that was just such a ridiculous play for him to make. The best point guard in the game handling beyond the 3 point line on a make or break position, and he couldn't even start the play because Kawhi just took it from him. Pretty amazing.

[SpurSwag]

I think spurstalk tends to overrate DG a little defensively, and as many have said he's either pretty amazing or essentially average. With that being said, he played some of the best defense I've seen against DWade in the finals. Sure, some of that was Dwade falling off, but Danny really locked him up completely

[elemento]

Not, but there're some good young defenders in the league as well, especially Butler. Boy is a pest defensively, just like Kawhi.

[313]

I think spurstalk tends to overrate DG a little defensively, and as many have said he's either pretty amazing or essentially average. With that being said, he played some of the best defense I've seen against DWade in the finals. Sure, some of that was Dwade falling off, but Danny really locked him up completely

Danny's defensive awareness on the fast break >>>

[#2!]

testies might be the worst poster in the entire upstairs and that's saying a LOT.

Challenge accepted:


Please, nobody can guard Westbrook because refs want to keep it like that, that chimp doesnt have a 10 foot vertical leap, he doesnt run like 3000 mph or any fantastic shit people loves to say about chimp.
He is a just a clown that goes free to the rim looking for cheap calls.

[Mikeanaro]

Im a fag

[Cry Havoc]

I think spurstalk tends to overrate DG a little defensively, and as many have said he's either pretty amazing or essentially average. With that being said, he played some of the best defense I've seen against DWade in the finals. Sure, some of that was Dwade falling off, but Danny really locked him up completely

Wade was dominant in the previous rounds. Doubtful he just happened to run out of gas in the FINALS for no reason. If he would have put up great numbers in a couple of games then yeah, you could maybe say he was tired. But he went from a monster to "is he done?" in the course of one round.

[SpurSwag]

Danny's defensive awareness on the fast break >>>

I'll give you that, he might be the best in the league defensively on breaks. It's pretty amazing to see actually.

[DMC]

KL is the best perimeter defender in the league. Danny is good too, but he's easy as hell to get off his feet with a pump fake.

[mkurts]

ESPN says Klay Thompson

[Chinook]

Yes. Green's been a significantly better defender this season. I know it's just a standard line from some folks that Green is overrated on ST, but that's not true at all. It's hard to understand just how much he does for a team on that end until you chart every possession.

Danny's part in the OKC series was the finest piece of defensive work I've ever seen. He didn't just hold Westbrook and Durant to lower PPPs than Kawhi. He held Jackson in check; he switched onto Ibaka. He pretty much single-handedly removed Fisher as a factor after the first half of Game One and Butler after the first half of Game Two. Say what you want about Kawhi's ability to guard 1-4, but Danny often has his assignments change several times in one series (the gap between subs/timeouts).

Also, Green is probably the only two-guard who's a legit rim-protector, meaning he weakside rotation has the defensive impact of a big man's. A madly underrated part of the Finals was how Green's rotations in the paint negated the Heat running with two shooting bigs.

In short, Green is like the defensive version of Matt Bonner: He's so good on that end that people don't even know how and just assume he's overrated.

[HI-FI]

Yes. Green's been a significantly better defender this season. I know it's just a standard line from some folks that Green is overrated on ST, but that's not true at all. It's hard to understand just how much he does for a team on that end until you chart every possession.

Danny's part in the OKC series was the finest piece of defensive work I've ever seen. He didn't just hold Westbrook and Durant to lower PPPs than Kawhi. He held Jackson in check; he switched onto Ibaka. He pretty much single-handedly removed Fisher as a factor after the first half of Game One and Butler after the first half of Game Two. Say what you want about Kawhi's ability to guard 1-4, but Danny often has his assignments change several times in one series (the gap between subs/timeouts).

Also, Green is probably the only two-guard who's a legit rim-protector, meaning he weakside rotation has the defensive impact of a big man's. A madly underrated part of the Finals was how Green's rotations in the paint negated the Heat running with two shooting bigs.

In short, Green is like the defensive version of Matt Bonner: He's so good on that end that people don't even know how and just assume he's overrated.
The Return

and i agree about both Bonner and especially Green being underrated.

[apalisoc_9]

I don't if it's a standard, i have made several threads about how danny is better in certain matchups and how super underrated he is..I share this opinion with many other ST...Not sure what xhinook is talking about. 9/10 of people believe Green is super underrated and a better 1-2 defender than kawhi.

[Chinook]

The Return

Lol. These 70-hour workweeks are a killer. Completely sapped my desire to do anything other than rest when I get home.

[apalisoc_9]

Heck I edited my players in 2k14 and Danny has a 98 overall defense, kawhi 93, Tiago 93

:lol

[Chinook]

I don't if it's a standard, i have made several threads about how danny is better in certain matchups and how super underrated he is..I share this opinion with many other ST...Not sure what xhinook is talking about. 9/10 of people believe Green is super underrated and a better 1-2 defender than kawhi.

Trying to figure out how me saying that some people think Green's defense is overrated automatically means I'm saying you think that.

[apalisoc_9]

Still, with limited defensive prospects, I value defensive versatility more than anything.

[apalisoc_9]

Trying to figure out how me saying that some people think Green's defense is overrated automatically means I'm saying you think that.

not about me, but "some folks...Standard line in ST that Danny is overrated"

I hardly ever see people in ST talk about danny being overrated..I probably haven't even talked to anyone here that thinks Danny is overrated.

[Baam]

Great post until the Bonner comparison :/...

[100%duncan]

The only people that think Danny is overrated are the ones who don't actually watch every game. If you follow this dude you would know why tbh. Like common sense.

[Chinook]

not about me, but "some folks...Standard line in ST that Danny is overrated"

I hardly ever see people in ST talk about danny being overrated..I probably haven't even talked to anyone here that thinks Danny is overrated.

Try control-Fing 'overrate' in this thread, or any thread talking about defense and Green. You'll get a good number of hits.

[wildchild]

9/10 of people believe....Green is ...better....than Kawhi.

9/10. I'm glad, I'm the only one who thinks Kawhi is better. Exclusive circle of people.

[siraulo23]

Green and Kawhi are both damn good, both are elite versatile defenders who can contain opp players without fouling

Green is probably a little better defending quicker type players like ellis, barea, curry etc... but he can guard 3 positions well. Kawhi can guard 1 through 4 well and is a probably a little bit better help defender. Obviously so far, kawhi's been taking more gambles swiping at the ball a little too much but you know when the games matter he'll be more disciplined.

[apalisoc_9]

9/10. I'm glad, I'm the only one who thinks Kawhi is better. Exclusive circle of people.

I'm with you bro...:lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Which are these mythical 4s and 1s that Kawhi has guarded so well? Pop very rarely puts him on such players, except in short stints. Is this bullshit triggered by that one steal on Paul?

[taps]

OP

God

[Brazil]

Green is absolutely terrific for the Spurs by his capacity to knock down 3s and so open the floor and of course on the defensive end (see chinook post) and he is our best guy on transition, that element is overlooked a lot, with Green on the floor, opponent needs to think twice on transition, against Spurs there are no easy points...

Nevertheless Kawhi is more valuable because of his size and capacity to guard the two best league players KD and LBL (Green can have a look at them but he is too short to be efficient during a whole game).

[wildchild]

Which are these mythical 4s and 1s that Kawhi has guarded so well? Pop very rarely puts him on such players, except in short stints.

We saw Leonard playing so well against those guys for long minutes (against PG's like Wall, Kemba, against hybrid SF/PF like Lebron, Morris twins, etc) but even if he plays in short stints he makes a huge impact on the defensive end since he can deny the ball, play the passing lanes, and shut down his man in those low minutes.



Is this bullshit triggered by that one steal on Paul?

I don't think so, maybe this comes from his college days, the stories about his verstile/lockdown defense stand out from his college days.

Kawhi was a game-changing player in so many ways for San Diego State and one of most exciting thing to watch was Leonard playing D against those teams with a one-man show.
For an example, Aztec fans can say how epic were those games against Fredette and BYU in Leonard's SDSU last season.
Even if San Diego had Tapley, White and Franklin to put on this guy, they expected that Kawhi could slow down Jimmer.
In one of those BYU-SDSU rivalry nights, Kawhi suffered the effects of flu symptoms and received two bags of IV before the game, while he was warning up, Leonard vomited twice.
However, he still played very well under the circumstancess (22 points and 15 rebounds) but he got tired as the game went on and Jimmer scored +40.
SDSU played three times BYU that year, they lost the first two games but won when it mattered most, the last game, they won their second MWC title.

Anyway, why criticize Kawhi's instincts for raiding passing lanes against Paul, Lin, Irving, etc? I wouldn't blame Leonard's steals, one of those steals won last WCF for us.

[MI21]

I can't be bothered making a long post about this but I just want to say that it's nice that the Spurs have a pair of perimeter defenders that between them are the best at ripping the ball directly from the opposition, the best at defending in transition and the best at shotblocking from a perimeter position.

Sure beats the days of Roger Mason, Richard Jefferson and Michael Finley.

[wildchild]

Nevertheless Kawhi is more valuable because of his size and capacity to guard the two best league players KD and LBL (Green can have a look at them but he is too short to be efficient during a whole game).

PPP isn't the only truth on defense.
Leonard's defensive ability must be properly evaluated in terms of denying the ball, rebounding, stripping the ball, playing the passing lanes, too.

[Brazil]

PPP isn't the only truth on defense.
Leonard's defensive ability must be properly evaluated in terms of denying the ball, rebounding, stripping the ball, playing the passing lanes, too.

I don't disagree... just saying what makes Leonard more valuable for the team than DG is his capacity to defend long athletic super stars SF things DG cannot do and very few in the league can.

[Phenomanul]

I don't disagree... just saying what makes Leonard more valuable for the team than DG is his capacity to defend long athletic super stars SF things DG cannot do and very few in the league can.

Certainly better than Klay Thompson who somehow gets everybody's love in this regard...

[wildchild]

Certainly better than Klay Thompson who somehow gets everybody's love in this regard...

Everytime I hear "Klay's dogged defense" :shootme

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I can't be bothered making a long post about this but I just want to say that it's nice that the Spurs have a pair of perimeter defenders that between them are the best at ripping the ball directly from the opposition, the best at defending in transition and the best at shotblocking from a perimeter position.

Sure beats the days of Roger Mason, Richard Jefferson and Michael Finley.

Truth.

[Chinook]

PPP isn't the only truth on defense.
Leonard's defensive ability must be properly evaluated in terms of denying the ball, rebounding, stripping the ball, playing the passing lanes, too.

As does Green's. Most of those things are covered in PPP anyway. Leonard's rebounding is awesome, but that is the only metric that give him the nod over Green. If rebounds weren't part of DRtg, Green would be much higher.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Green is a great defender and i am glad that Green & Leonard are on the same team.

But Leonard is probably the better on the ball defender and the better one-on-one defender. His footwork is what Zach Lowe calls, the "lock step" - locked in with the footwork of the offensive player, mirroring every step that the offensive player takes. The only good comparison in the league right now is probably Tony Allen and Jimmy Butler. Green has still aways to go to reach that level of one-on-one defense.

Leonard gambles (and succeeds & fails) a bit more than Green, who is more solid. And Danny Green is possibly the best transition defender on the planet among wings right now. So there.

[DesignatedT]

They are both great defenders and compliment eachother well in that regard as well. If the game is on the line though and Lebron or Durant or whoever have the ball with 10 seconds left, I would choose Leonard to put on an island. JMO.

I do like Danny defending the guys who are a little quicker though like CP3, Curry, etc.

[loveforthegame]

We're lucky to have both. I'd rather not think of one or both on another team.

We've had lively debates about these two. I'd be interested in seeing who the GM's would build around. Not that they're always right but it would be interesting to see what other GM's/Coaches prefer.

[timtonymanu]

Going from the days of RJ + Bogans/Finley/Mason to Leonard and Green is my favorite Spurs move of the last few years. Hopefully both of them come back next year.

[100%duncan]

Going from the days of RJ + Bogans/Finley/Mason to Leonard and Green is my favorite Spurs move of the last few years. Hopefully both of them come back next year.

I remember of dreaming of a bowen type player each and everyday those faggots play no defense. Now we have two and way better on the other side of the court.

[hater]

nig please neither Kawhi nor Danny come close to Bowen perimeter defense

let's move along

[100%duncan]

nig please neither Kawhi nor Danny come close to Bowen perimeter defense

let's move along

it aint 2005 anymore mofo

[hater]

it aint 2005 anymore mofo

no shit. nobody disputed this mofo

[100%duncan]

no shit. nobody disputed this mofo

yall need to move on from bowen son, we got 2 of his sons right now

[hitmantb]

Bowen looked good because he had prime Duncan, one of the best team defenders of all time.

Kwahi and Danny have to defend in Duncan's twilight years, and like previous poster side are far stronger on offense, their net effect is much higher.

Kwahi is best at defending power players, Green is best at defending speed players.

[Chinook]

nig please neither Kawhi nor Danny come close to Bowen perimeter defense

let's move along

Don't think there's any way to really justify that line of reasoning anymore.

[Drom John]

FWIW, B-ref's defensive box/plus minus
3rd Tony Allen
5th Kawhi Leonard
6th Draymond Green
10th Danny Green

The other six are big men:
Bogut, Duncan, Jordan, Sanders, Davis and Hibbert.

[Chinook]

FWIW, B-ref's defensive box/plus minus
3rd Tony Allen
5th Kawhi Leonard
6th Draymond Green
10th Danny Green

The other six are big men:
Bogut, Duncan, Jordan, Sanders, Davis and Hibbert.

Yeah, they also had Leonard as a negative on offense. Green is leading the team in total box plus-minus and has a huge lead is VORP, which is pretty incredible given that his three-point shooting is still not up to par.

[wildchild]

Yeah, they also had Leonard as a negative on offense.

It isn't surprising considering his blurry vision and how this affects his effectiveness (FG%, 3P FG) but the good thing is that he's still improving his defensive numbers according to them.

Defensive Rating
2014-15 NBA 93.8 (4)
Last season 98.2 (7)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus
2014-15 NBA 3.9 (5)
Last season 3.2 (7)

Defensive Win Shares
2014-15 NBA 0.9 (5)

[apalisoc_9]

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/LeonardMVP.jpg