Spurs @ Timberwolves Thoughts and Grades

[ElNono]

State of the Spurs

The Spurs arrived to this game versus the Timberwolves after a solid win on the road against the new alleged superteam in the the league, the Cleveland Cavaliers. Undermanned, struggling with the 3 point shot and and with an unconvincing offense, the Spurs have been relying in their surprisingly solid defense to build a 7-4 record to start the season. The Timberwolves are currently undergoing their own injury woes (Rubio, Pekovic, Martin and Young all out), so this seemed like a good game to iron out some of the offensive struggles, and in that sense, the Spurs did not disappoint. While tonight’s rival was extremely limited, the Spurs took a step in the right direction. They’ve played some games previously where they dropped down to the level of the competition, but tonight, starting with Tony Parker, there was not going to be any of that.



The Starters

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Tony Parker: A+ Tony came out extremely aggressive from the opening whistle. He took 5 of the Spurs’ first 10 shots, converting 3. Whether it was an easy or difficult finish around the basket, the floater, inside or outside the 3 point line, Tony was dominating whoever was in front of him. With Cojo going down in the 1st half, Tony came out extremely aggressive again at the half, and was extremely important for the Spurs to build their 20+ lead during that period. His defense resembled the last few games, which is improved. Mo Williams is a player that’s nearly unstoppable in the regular season anyways. Perhaps what’s most impressive on Tony’s night, is that he did all of that in just 25 mins.

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Tim Duncan: B+ Tim only logged 22 mins, only took 3 shots (made all of them), but he produced well (9 and 10, 4 blocks). His defense against Dieng wasn’t the greatest, but he did a solid job manning the middle. Another day at the office for Tim.

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Boris Diaw: B+ I thought this was one of the better Boris games. He started the game knocking down a 3 pointer, a good sign after passing up some open shots in prior games. He boarded well, which isn’t necessarily his strength, shot extremely efficiently (5-7), and overall made good decisions. He also ran the point against the Wolves scrubs in garbage time, and he did that well too. The only knock on his night is the 3 turnovers, but all of our bigs more or less had the same problem tonight.

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Kawhi Leonard: B- His shot selection wasn’t very good on a night where he took the 2nd most shots in the team. Some of his decisions on offense lead to turnovers (team high 4), and he uncharacteristically did not rebound well (2 boards). All that said, he was excellent on defense, and the Spurs’ overall defense improve with his presence on the floor.

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Danny Green: A Danny had a great night. His solid defense was there and then some (4 blocks tonight), but he finally found his stroke from the 3 point line, and it was such a great sight to see. Due to Corey getting hurt, he also logged the most minutes tonight (35), and when he was the most senior player in garbage time, I thought he showed leadership and good play making (3 assist). While it’s unreasonable to expect him to score 18 pts every night, if he can get his 3 point shooting at his averages for last season, it completely changes the complexion of the Spurs offense.



The Bench

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Corey Joseph: C+ He only played 7 mins, but the Spurs struggled to get into their sets when he was running the offense. This was a night where he wasn’t as aggressive as his better games this season. He was diagnosed with a mild ankle sprain, and hopefully it doesn’t keep him away from the court for long, as the Spurs could use the extra body, plus he seemed to be finally getting the handle on his role on the team.

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Manu Ginobili: C+ Manu had a modest game. He’s still struggling with his shot, even though he’s not taking many. He opened up with a 3 point make, but that would turn out to be his only basket. His playmaking was there (4 assists), but nothing flashy. He only played 18 mins, as the game got out of hand early in the 3rd quarter.

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Aron Baynes: B The big banger had one of his better games of the season. He rebounded well, and eventually padded his scoring stats in garbage time, but while the game was still competitive, I thought he gave us good minutes. Nothing otherworldly, but at his talent level, if he can provide this kind of performances, you have to be satisfied.

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Marco Belinelli: B+ Marco was on a time limit (10 mins) coming back from injury, and he looked good. He hit the two shots he took, including an and1 on the second one, and I thought his chemistry with Gino, the ball movement when the two are out there, was great to see. He left to the locker room after his second stint on the court, but apparently just to work out in a stationary bike.



The Rest

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Austin Daye: D+ He got the looks, but until garbage time, he couldn’t knock them down. While he rebounded well (team high 11), he needs to show the coaching staff that he’s a better option than Bonner on the floor, but unfortunately he has not so far. He took the 3rd most shots in the team tonight (11), and only knocked down 4. The Spurs will still use his body while we have guys hurt, but time is running out for Austin to earn more than spot minutes on the team’s rotation.

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Kyle Anderson: C The Spurs’ real life bobblehead, and apparently human victory cigar this season had a quiet game. He was the only Spurs besides the injured Corey Joseph that did not score tonight. He’s clearly still not trying to do too much, and soaking up minutes of experience is always a plus for a rookie.

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Jeff Ayres: C Also fairly quiet night for Jeff in his 12 minutes on the court. He battled a bit in garbage time, but nothing noteworthy, for good or bad. At this point Baynes seemingly has won over his spot on the rotation, but it’s a long season, he’ll get more opportunities to prove if he should have his backup spot back during the regular season.

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Pop: A He kept the minutes to a minimum for the older guys and Kawhi, and despite the Wolves mounting a few comeback attempts, this game was over midway through the 3rd quarter.

[Brunodf]

:tuSolid takes, keep doing it if u have time...

[bigfan]

As an out of towner I don't get to see many games and used to depend on TIMVP's recaps. Since he is now long gone I will be following your recaps from now on and sure do appreciate them.

[bluebellmaniac]

Thanks El Nono

[Old School 44]

Thanks for the grades! When Tony got to 28 I was wondering, who was the last Spur to score 30 or more? I'm guessing it was Tony.

[SupremeGuy]

Thanks. :toast

[-21-]

Oi man, why you give Enrique an A+? Just kidding, thanks.

[ElNono]

Thanks for the kind words. I'll write when I can, tbh... takes time and feels like work sometimes.

[Robz4000]

Good write-up; know how tedious it can be during these worthless games so I appreciate the effort. Agree on all fronts for the most part. One thing I noticed about Daye is that he's actually not a bad defender in certain situations, just his help defense is atrocious; doesn't help he can't make a shot to save his life. If he can become a passable shooter he has a place in the system. He's running out of time quickly tho.

[dabom]

Lol

[Malik Hairston]

Good write-up, tbh..

Great game from TP9, my nigga..

[ABC]

Thanks ElNono :bobo

[Proxy]

Thank you!

[Texas_Ranger]

Anderson and Errors weren't really better than Daye, but other then that :tu

[Brazil]

Perfect game against a crappy team to heat up the offense and the 3s... Low minutes for the starters, solid minutes for our bench, Beli returns... Good night

hope cojo' si jury is not serious

[jeebus]

Daye write up was spot on. Dude was in Kirby mode before the 4th; he was a black hole when he got the ball. But he did rebound ok, which was his only saving grace.

[Brazil]

Oh and thanks nono... Good read

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the kind words. I'll write when I can, tbh... takes time and feels like work sometimes.

Good job. I appreciate the effort whenever anyone does one of these. They add to the discussion and they do require quite a bit of work.

[Pocho La Pantera]

Thanks, great read!

[Mugen]

:tu

Agreed w/ pretty much everything especially Kawhi. His playmaking regressed from the Cleveland game and settled too much for long Js. Him and TP need to figure out how to both be effective at the same time over the course of this reg season tbh.

[EVAY]

Thanks for write-up, E-N. It is NOT easy to write one of these things when the game is not overly interesting, and it always represents a lot of work, regardless of how interesting the game is/was.

Couldn't agree more with virtually every one of your takes. Most especially your comment that we have to evaluate Baynes' work in the context of his talent level. Well observed and cogently stated.

Also agree totally with the Daye thing. I noticed in this morning's local paper that they were lauding Daye's double-double, and I could hardly believe it. Admittedly I didn't watch the end of the game, but I thought he just looked horrible out there, and thought to myself "He is not doing himself any favors out there with the coaches or his teammates. Again and again I saw Tony and/or Manu pass him the ball for an open shot, and he just kept missing and missing. His rebounding is not as bad as his offense, but then it would be hard to be worse than his offense.

All in all, enjoyable to read. Thanks again.

[pgardn]

These types of games allow us to view the mind of Pop imo.

Of huge significance imo was again playing Danny Green, a starter, at PG during junk time.
Green is actually improving yet again in by far the weakest area of his game, ball handling.

Pop has not given up on Green. I would have. It was obvious to me Green was told not to put the ball on the floor unless absolutely necessary last season. I thought this was our team, always have two good ball handlers in crunch time if Green is in the game. This limited our ability to rotate players and play certain lineups. Pop appears to want to rectify this situation.

[Splits]

Thanks EN, well done.

What's going on with Parker's 3 ball? :lmao he's leading the league at 68% (13/19) I thought it was just fluky at the start of the season but this is getting ridiculous.

[pgardn]

Oh, and Nono again shows why this board is still worthy without much oversite.
Interesting takes in almost every forum I read.

[wildbill2u]

Daye was NOT the worst player on the Spurs last night as your grade would indicate.

1. Eleven rebounds is a very good night for ANYONE on our team, but especially for a bench player. On one FT attempt he skied from the baseline on a long rebound and got it with one hand near the free throw line. However, some folks here referred to his rebounding effort as "OK" and only "better than his [terrible] offense" while Diaw was praised for his rebounding (properly so) with far fewer.

2. His one on one defense isn't perfect, but not bad. He's still learning the defensive rotations and game experience is going to help with that.

3. His shooting is still suspect and I think he will have to do better than 4/11. However, I don't think it matters whether his shots fall during garbage time since that's when his minutes are concentrated.

This forum is full of folks who remind me of child abusers. They pick out one child and abuse him while ignoring the others. Why don't we look for good things and improvements in our individual players, especially the supporting troops. If they were up to the standards of the starters, they'd be starting.

[Mel_13]

This forum is full of folks who remind me of child abusers. They pick out one child and abuse him while ignoring the others. Why don't we look for good things and improvements in our individual players, especially the supporting troops. If they were up to the standards of the starters, they'd be starting.

When someone posts a thread like this they certainly invite commentary and criticism. Comparing posters to child abusers while calling for a more optimistic viewpoint seems a bit incongruous to me. Perhaps you should try your hand at one of these game reviews.

[apalisoc_9]

Thanks Nono

Will use this format for any game grades I do..

[jjktkk]

Thanks for the write up El.

[BillMc]

Thanks. Nice job.

[Mikeanaro]

Nice grades, finally Spurs win by a wide wide margin.

[Raven]

i'd give an A+ to DG, he was a wise beast out there. Beli looked shitty as per par whenever guarding anyone, with wiggins abusing him, but looked very comfortable shooting it, which is cool. I think Daye was a solid B, very good on D with his positioning and rebounding and he took mostly good shots with a good stroke that just weren't going in, when they went he relaxed and he looked very good. In general Both Anderson and Daye look very good to me, they are not getting burned or getting screened much and to me that's very reassuring because the offense is there.

[ElNono]

My general feeling on Daye last night, at least offensively, is that he played in a rush. I think he's aware that his shot is what's going to earn him minutes, and that his time to show he belongs is limited. As such, I thought he rushed some shots, and took some quick long 2s, a shot that's fairly uncharacteristic for the Spurs' offense. In that context, at times it looked like he wanted to eat first, instead of being part of the Spurs offensive machinery.

[Raven]

i agree, when he feels like that, he tends to rush a bit and comes a little flat. However, when it was garbage time, he relaxed and knowing he was not going out, he really looked good and in general he looks like a san antonio spurs player, which is impressive considering the no D chucker he was in detroit..

[ElNono]

i agree, when he feels like that, he tends to rush a bit and comes a little flat. However, when it was garbage time, he relaxed and knowing he was not going out, he really looked good and in general he looks like a san antonio spurs player, which is impressive considering the no D chucker he was in detroit..

I agree, but if he's to take Bonner's spot, he needs to show the coaches he can do that when the game is still competitive. I'm rooting for him to do well, he just was a little selfish at times last night, and unlike more established players, he's trying to earn a spot, so the onus to do better is bigger for him.

[100%duncan]

Daye is actually a glorified chucker that in reality, can't really shoot.

[RD2191]

No of tacocabanafajita quality but good job good effort.:lol jk mayne, great write up. Appreciate it.

[manufan10]

I agree, but if he's to take Bonner's spot, he needs to show the coaches he can do that when the game is still competitive. I'm rooting for him to do well, he just was a little selfish at times last night, and unlike more established players, he's trying to earn a spot, so the onus to do better is bigger for him.

What's ironic to me is that I think he also knows his shots aren't falling because there were a few time where Tony or Manu gave him a wide open shot and Daye hesitated and ended up NOT shooting it.

To me, that shows his lack of confidence right now. He's in a major slump and only seeing shots start to fall will get him out of this funk. Hopefully this game will help propel him to be a more serviceable player.

[manufan10]

BTW, thanks for doing this ElNono. :tu :toast

[wildbill2u]

When someone posts a thread like this they certainly invite commentary and criticism. Comparing posters to child abusers while calling for a more optimistic viewpoint seems a bit incongruous to me. Perhaps you should try your hand at one of these game reviews.

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

[littlecoyotecoin]

When someone posts a thread like this they certainly invite commentary and criticism. Comparing posters to child abusers while calling for a more optimistic viewpoint seems a bit incongruous to me. Perhaps you should try your hand at one of these game reviews.

WADR to my favorite two posters, I thought WildBill was on point. More optimistic is not equivalent to irrational. The Daye criticism is skewed way negative, and no one is chiding his detractors to be more congruous with their statements. I don't believe Wild needs to write game grades to make this point. And, I don't think he was being unappreciative of Nono's efforts. He was only disagreeing with part of the content, which, as you agree, is invited when writing said summaries.

I didn't see anyone calling for congruity during the game thread when some genius was complaining about Daye's rebounding. When I went to check the stat sheet at the moment I read the comment, Daye had 4 rebounds in 6 minutes of play. Duncan had 4 rebounds in 16 minutes of play.

Daye has done himself no favors with his shooting, but the piling on with little regard for the truth should be condemned before Wild is. It does remind me of an abuser, or school-yard bullies, or, as I said a long time ago, chickens that will peck another one to death if they see a weakness in it. And, Daye is not without flaws.

Daye shot 41% from three with us last year. He shot 42% during the preseason. Third highest on the team with the most attempts. He only shot poorly in the summer league, and he has had a slow start to the regular season, but every player on the team is shooting poorly from 3 except Parker and Bonner.

Kawhi is actually shooting worse, Manu only slightly better, similarly Diaw. Danny has picked it up recently and is STILL under 35%.

The same people that were saying Daye couldn't shoot last year would say that his attempts were too few to count in the little time he played last year. Now, they say this almost, if not exact same number of attempts is proof that he can't shoot. That is some helluv an incongruity, right there, but no one ever mentions it except me, and then I'm labeled some sort of Daye-lover, instead of just reasonable and patient.

Props to Nono and WildBill.

[024]

Baynes definitely deserved an A. This was as good of play as we can expect from him. He almost looked like Splitter out there, contesting shots at the rim without fouling, getting his rebounds, and making his shots when he rolls to the basket.

[Mel_13]

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

I understand and I absolutely agree. From Rasho to Beno, from Bonner to Bogans, and from Ayres to Daye it is a familiar theme. It can be seen on any team message board, perhaps more so here due to the lax moderation.



In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

I also understood your view on Daye and that's why I didn't quote that portion of your post or register any objection to it. You made a reasonable case in response to the evaluation in the OP.

I just felt the child abuser bit was gratuitous and unnecessary. IMO, the only effective counter to the negative posting you criticized is to post more quality content. Which you did in the first portion of your post.

[SnakeBoy]

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

I don't think Daye is being used as a whipping boy. I had high hopes he could be developed but it's starting to look like he's never going to make it in the NBA. If you wanted to use a scale I'd say compare KA and Daye. I'd say they have both performed about equally but one is in his 5th year in the NBA and the other is in his 5th week. On that scale, El Nono's grade for Daye is being generous.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I don't think Daye is being used as a whipping boy. I had high hopes he could be developed but it's starting to look like he's never going to make it in the NBA. If you wanted to use a scale I'd say compare KA and Daye. I'd say they have both performed about equally but one is in his 5th year in the NBA and the other is in his 5th week. On that scale, El Nono's grade for Daye is being generous.

This is the sort of thing I am talking about. Thus far, Anderson is shooting zero% (0/5) from three, yet received little criticism. Daye has been in the league shooting a respectable % for five years, you're right. Anderson might be lucky if he makes it that long. Anderson may turn out well, but he's not even in Daye's league yet. More incongruity.

Kyle shooting 11% from 2 and 9% overall in six games.

I love the idea of Kyle's potential. I am an Anderson fan, but let's keep it real. Daye shot over 30% from 3 as a rookie. 54% from two. As bad as Daye has been, Kyle can't even sniff his jock, yet. Good thing he's got time to catch up, because so far it looks like he gunna need it.

[ElNono]

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

Outside of Bonner in the past and Ayres lately, I don't really have a "whipping boy" anymore. Heck, I started the Temple of Austin Daye thread. I want him to work out for the Spurs, he's a young guy, but in that sense, I though last night's game was a negative in that quest (specifically on what he needs to do to stick around and not merely wearing a suit behind the bench). I have no problem with disagreement or criticism, everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion.

[Brazil]

everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion.

yup


unless they disagree with me

[Malik Hairston]

:lol timvp was extremely biased with his grades, tbh..

[lefty]

:lol timvp was extremely biased with his grades, tbh..
:lol troof bombs

" :) We agree 999% with your grades timvp; you are never wrong; amazing job again; we're friends now, right?




















Right? "

[spurs10]

This is a thoughtful thread reminiscent of why most people wanted to be a part of ST in the first place. Yes, it is work to do this i'm sure. Thanks for your effort man!