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Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:02 PM
http://i60.tinypic.com/flhloy.jpg


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A rookie Cleveland police officer shot a 12-year-old boy outside a city recreation center late Saturday afternoon after the boy pulled a BB gun from his waistband, police said.

Police were responding to reports of a male with a gun outside Cudell Recreation Center at Detroit Avenue and West Boulevard about 3:30 p.m., Deputy Chief of Field Operations Ed Tomba said.

A rookie officer and a 10-15 year veteran pulled into the parking lot and saw a few people sitting underneath a pavilion next to the center. The rookie officer saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association President Jeffrey Follmer said.

The officer got out of the car and told the boy to put his hands up. The boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.

Tomba said the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically.

At least one of the shots hit the child in the stomach. He was rushed to MetroHealth Medical Center in serious condition. His current condition was not immediately known.

As a handful of community activists shouted obscenities from behind a group of reporters, Tomba said the incident was "very, very tragic."

"We don't come to work everyday and want to use force on anybody," Tomba said. "That's not what our job is. We're part of this community."

The department's use of deadly force investigation team, made up of officers from the homicide and internal affairs units, members of the city's Office of Professional Standards and the city and Cuyahoga County prosecutors office, will determine if the officer was justified in shooting the boy.

Tomba promised the investigation would be open.

"When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed," Tomba said. "The way it looks like right now, it wasn't followed, but we're going to continue our investigation."

The shooting comes as the U.S. Department of Justice is investigating the department to determine if it regularly uses excessive force against its citizens.

Northeast Ohio Media Group will continue to update this story.

vid in link below:

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/26/tamir-rice-shooting-video-released/19530745/

911 CALLER REPORTED THE GUN AS FAKE AND A TOY GUN

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 04:04 PM
WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BREAK THE LAW WHY CANT YOU JUST COMPLY WITH EVERYTHING THE COPS SAY LIKE A GOOD DARKIE

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:04 PM
kid didn't stand a chance. cops hopped out and shot him within seconds.

the local media is already trying to figure out how to spin this to blame the kid. disgustinghttp://i57.tinypic.com/33xhl3s.png

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/tamir_rices_father_has_history.html

cantthinkofanything
11-26-2014, 04:07 PM
kid didn't stand a chance. cops hopped out and shot him within seconds.

the local media is already trying to figure out how to spin this to blame the kid. disgustinghttp://i57.tinypic.com/33xhl3s.png

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/tamir_rices_father_has_history.html

I'll withhold judgement until I see Rice's gangster web page and thug life gear.

Medvedenko
11-26-2014, 04:11 PM
Hmmm, from what I read the Kid pulled a weapon out when a cop asked him not too? Is it tragic? Yes.

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 04:16 PM
Why are toy guns sold if this is the result.

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 04:16 PM
Leave it to race baiters like Shrill Trill to start such threads.

Tragic, yes. The kid should have been taught weapons responsibility before handling one. Toy or not, a BB gun is a weapon.

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 04:17 PM
Leave it to race baiters like Shrill Trill to start such threads.

Tragic, yes. The kid should have been taught weapons responsibility before handling one. Toy or not, a BB gun is a weapon.

my dick is a weapon doesn't mean I should be shot for it

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:18 PM
here we go. so i guess the many reporters and networks who are reporting this story are race baiting. watch the vid you geek and you'll see he was murdered within seconds of police arriving at the scene.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:18 PM
Why are toy guns sold if this is the result.

good question.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 04:19 PM
the 911 call

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/24/listen--911-caller-reports-tamir-rice-incident/19479083/

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 04:20 PM
Why are toy guns sold if this is the result.
when every toy gun has an orange safety tip for a reason and you remove it...

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 04:21 PM
here we go. so i guess the many reporters and networks who are reporting this story are race baiting. watch the vid you geek and you'll see he was murdered within seconds of police arriving at the scene.
do you think the police in the car on the way were talking like "hey i dno why, but i really feel like shooting a black kid today. OH here's an opportunity!"

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:22 PM
do you think the police in the car on the way were talking like "hey i dno why, but i really feel like shooting a black kid today. OH here's an opportunity!"

thats irrelevant. poor police work and the result is a loss of innocent life.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 04:23 PM
thats irrelevant. poor police work and the result is a loss of innocent life.
thanks for not answering my question

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:24 PM
anyone who defends the officers after seeing the video is a coward. period.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:24 PM
thanks for not answering my question

you're welcome

DD
11-26-2014, 04:25 PM
meh

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 04:25 PM
do you think the police in the car on the way were talking like "hey i dno why, but i really feel like shooting a black kid today. OH here's an opportunity!"

when it comes to kid they usually prepare for the black community ahead of time...but all the rest of us get this type of treatment:

eu6ioKjZsGU

benefactor
11-26-2014, 04:27 PM
Stupid people die every day...both black and white. Thankfully he doesn't get a chance to become a stupid adult. As the past week has shown we have way too many of those right now.

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 04:30 PM
Here's part two of the story....

lNExs2LlyME#t

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 04:32 PM
Stupid people die every day...both black and white. Thankfully he doesn't get a chance to become a stupid adult. As the past week has shown we have way too many of those right now.

too bad we can't say the same for your nigga loving daughter... :hat

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 04:35 PM
Looks like a justified shooting to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP8DNB4Fbs4

benefactor
11-26-2014, 04:41 PM
^^looks pretty cut and dry.

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 04:42 PM
^^looks pretty cut and dry.

I'm sure some of her black male classmates would say the same thing ;-)

hehateme
11-26-2014, 04:45 PM
Feel sorry for the kid but the video explains it all. Another race bait thread, if there is any blame to go around blame it on the ignorant parents who probably bought this for him and didn't teach him that this day in age you don't point shit at cops.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:46 PM
smh. before the vid, cops stated they told him to put his hands up 3 TIMES. within 2 seconds of them pulling up right next to tamir, he was shot dead in cold blood. again, horrible policing.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:47 PM
dispatch gets some blame here too for not letting cletus and boss hog know the person is a juvenile and the gun may be fake.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 04:49 PM
Feel sorry for the kid but the video explains it all. Another race bait thread, if there is any blame to go around blame it on the ignorant parents who probably bought this for him and didn't teach him that this day in age you don't point shit at cops.

again, this story is in national new media. how is making a thread on it race baiting? unless you're saying you're a racist

hehateme
11-26-2014, 04:52 PM
again, this story is in national new media. how is making a thread on it race baiting? unless you're saying you're a racist

It's already been proven you are a racist on here. This thread is to yet again incite more people to rage over your belief that the white man is out to get you.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 04:54 PM
dispatch gets some blame here too for not letting cletus and boss hog know the person is a juvenile and the gun may be fake.
you think they're going to take that chance? its a life or death job. and a juvenile with a gun is just as dangerous as an adult with a gun. he might not even understand the consequences of his actions as much as an adult would

i agree that its fishy that the cops claimed they told him to drop it 3 times, while the shooting seemed pretty damn instant

hehateme
11-26-2014, 04:54 PM
And if you want to play the simple game what would you do in the cops position? Risk your life and think it's a toy or go home to live another day. I bet you say choice #1 and think its a toy to save face but I'm pretty sure you are pumping 6 rounds into him before he has a chance to point it at you.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 04:55 PM
Looks like a kid wandering around aimlessly playing with his toy gun to me.

Race isn't an issue with everything, but if you can't see the relevance here you're in serious fucking denial. Like I said yesterday, a white 12-year-old kid playing "cowboy" on a playground with a toy pistol probably doesn't get 911 called on him, and definitely doesn't get immediately shot. Shit, me and my white friends used to run around our neighborhood pointing toy guns at each other all the time, we never had the cops called on us.

LOL claiming this is justified. Even when someone is KNOWN to have a gun and is being threatening with it, they're given more than TWO SECONDS to react to police presence.

Sad situation. Credit to the CPD for releasing as many details as possible. Hopefully this one actually goes to trial.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 04:57 PM
Tragic event and sucks that another young life had to be taken but once again but this video looks cut and dry to me and shown cops were in the right. Pull a gun out on cops and you will be shot.
Also the cops were not going around looking to shoot him they were callled.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 04:58 PM
Even when someone is KNOWN to have a gun and is being threatening with it, they're given more than TWO SECONDS to react to police presence.
wat?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 04:58 PM
And if you want to play the simple game what would you do in the cops position? Risk your life and think it's a toy or go home to live another day. I bet you say choice #1 and think its a toy to save face but I'm pretty sure you are pumping 6 rounds into him before he has a chance to point it at you.

You park further away, get out of your car and give the kid a chance to put his fucking gun down. That's pretty standard procedure.

I mean at this point it's like you guys would justify cops shooting any random person on the street on suspicion that they're armed. At what point would you ever be willing to side with the victim?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 04:59 PM
wat?

You've heard the phrase, "Put down your weapon" correct?

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:00 PM
Also people using they OMG he was shot in seconds when he pulled out the gun!!! Murderers!!!. IT only takes a second of hesitation to be killed.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:01 PM
you think they're going to take that chance? its a life or death job. and a juvenile with a gun is just as dangerous as an adult with a gun. he might not even understand the consequences of his actions as much as an adult would

they were responding to a rec center. knowing in advance that the suspect was a youth and probably holding a toy gun, they would have probably used a little more patience and handled the situation a lot better. they could have thought "hey, maybe its a kid from the rec center playing with a toy gun" lets stay in the car and use our microphone to direct him to drop the weapon instead of pulling up directly on a suspect and killing him within 2 seconds of their arrival.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 05:02 PM
Also people using they OMG he was shot in seconds when he pulled out the gun!!! Murderers!!!. IT only takes a second of hesitation to be killed.

Sure, if you pull the car up two feet from the suspect.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:02 PM
people hate police when they get speeding tickets but have every excuse in the world when they kill an unarmed child, sickening

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:04 PM
they were responding to a rec center. knowing in advance that the suspect was a youth and probably holding a toy gun, they would have probably used a little more patience and handled the situation a lot better. they could have thought "hey, maybe its a kid from the rec center playing with a toy gun" lets stay in the car and use our microphone to direct him to drop the weapon instead of pulling up directly on a suspect and killing him within 2 seconds of their arrival.
they didn't know it was a toy gun. even the 911 call said "i dont know if its real"

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:05 PM
welp, that didn't take long

537720132630347777

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:05 PM
people hate police when they get speeding tickets but have every excuse in the world when they kill an unarmed child, sickening

Wasn't unarmed...

the call was for a gun and be it toy gun or not the orange rubber safty end was removed.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:05 PM
You've heard the phrase, "Put down your weapon" correct?
if the gun is pointed at the cop, they can shoot right away tbh... if somebody is holding a gun, they can tell him to drop it, sure. if the gun is pointed at them its a different story

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:07 PM
they didn't know it was a toy gun. even the 911 call said "i dont know if its real"

he says "its probably fake"

RD2191
11-26-2014, 05:08 PM
Cops are huge pussies. Nothing new here.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:08 PM
he was shot within 2 seconds of the cops showing up. dispatcher should have relayed that info to the cops. cops should have used some common sense knowing they were going to a rec center full of kids when the suspect was identified as a juvenile.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:09 PM
welp, that didn't take long

537720132630347777
he once was caught underaged drinking!

sociopath. how was he allowed on the force?

hehateme
11-26-2014, 05:09 PM
You park further away, get out of your car and give the kid a chance to put his fucking gun down. That's pretty standard procedure.

I mean at this point it's like you guys would justify cops shooting any random person on the street on suspicion that they're armed. At what point would you ever be willing to side with the victim?

What kind of idiotic post is this? Side with the victim who pulled a weapon that looks real on cops of all people? How fucking stupid are you?

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:09 PM
Look I know you guys hate cops but what if how you say the cops didnt shoot the suspect pulling out a gun and shot somebody around that wasn't even the cops? You people would probably be crying WTF why did the cops hesitate to shoot him?

Oh wait, cops need to be asking everyone if there gun is fake now I guess...

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:10 PM
he says "its probably fake"
he says its probably fake, also says he doesn't know. he also called 911 to mention it :lol

if he knew it was fake and was harmless i dont think he woulda gone that far

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:10 PM
Cops are huge pussies. Nothing new here.

pussy ass cop slipped after firing his gun trying to run for cover.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:11 PM
he says its probably fake, also says he doesn't know. he also called 911 to mention it :lol

if he knew it was fake and was harmless i dont think he woulda gone that far

right, so dispatcher should have relayed that info to the cops. that small detail could have saved a life.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:13 PM
From now on cops need to just sit back and let the crime happen first dammit!!!

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:13 PM
right, so dispatcher should have relayed that info to the cops. that small detail could have saved a life.
so if they told the cops, the gun might be real, might be fake, and when they got there the first thing the kid did was lift and point it at them, they would wait? i dont know. maybe things would be different if the standard orange tip wasn't removed. thats exactly what the orange safety tips are for tbh

could have saved a life

hehateme
11-26-2014, 05:13 PM
right, so dispatcher should have relayed that info to the cops. that small detail could have saved a life.

Is this your insinuation of back pedaling from your previous posts of blaming the cops? A dispatcher is not a cop.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:14 PM
he once was caught underaged drinking!

sociopath. how was he allowed on the force?

who cares about that. his SSN and adress is posted.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:16 PM
so if they told the cops, the gun might be real, might be fake, and when they got there the first thing the kid did was lift and point it at them, they would wait? i dont know. maybe things would be different if the standard orange tip wasn't removed. thats exactly what the orange safety tips are for tbh

could have saved a life

New policy needs to be changed on how they test a real gun from a fake by the bullets in their body. Cops are paid to be pullet sponges duh...

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:17 PM
so if they told the cops, the gun might be real, might be fake, and when they got there the first thing the kid did was lift and point it at them, they would wait? i dont know. maybe things would be different if the standard orange tip wasn't removed. thats exactly what the orange safety tips are for tbh

could have saved a life


Is this your insinuation of back pedaling from your previous posts of blaming the cops? A dispatcher is not a cop.

first off all, the kid never pointed the gun. he was pulling it out of his waistband in fear of 2 dumbass cops pulling up on him while he was sitting at a park.

if the dispatcher would have told them the gun may be fake, the location is a rec center full of children, the suspect is a juvenile, the cops would have handled the situation differently instead of agitating a gunfight at a rec center full of children resulting in loss of life.

hehateme
11-26-2014, 05:17 PM
oh noes he was been verified and they found nothing...oh noes!

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 05:20 PM
Look I know you guys hate cops but what if how you say the cops didnt shoot the suspect pulling out a gun and shot somebody around that wasn't even the cops? You people would probably be crying WTF why did the cops hesitate to shoot him?

Oh wait, cops need to be asking everyone if there gun is fake now I guess...

when the suspect is a 12 yr old kid.....yeah you make damn sure that thing is real before you fucking shoot. 12 year olds are known for playing with toy guns and toys that could be mistaken for guns.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:20 PM
first off all, the kid never pointed the gun. he was pulling it out of his waistband in fear of 2 dumbass cops
:lmao why would pulling out a fake gun be a response to fear of cops?

benefactor
11-26-2014, 05:21 PM
first off all, the kid never pointed the gun. he was pulling it out of his waistband in fear of 2 dumbass cops pulling up on him while he was sitting at a park.

:lol...perhaps if he wasn't sitting around with D'arick and and Jaquwayln listening to songs about shooting the police he wouldn't have pulled a fake gun on them in "fear" and wound up dead.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:21 PM
when the suspect is a 12 yr old kid.....yeah you make damn sure that thing is real before you fucking shoot. 12 year olds are known for playing with toy guns and toys that could be mistaken for guns.
a 12 year old is also less likely to understand consequences to actions, ie more prone to do something stupid or irrational. could think its all a game, etc

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:22 PM
:lmao why would pulling out a fake gun be a response to fear of cops?

seriously?

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 05:22 PM
he says "its probably fake"
If someone told you that a revolver "probably" had no bullets in it, would you play Russian Roulette?

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:22 PM
seriously?
seriously.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 05:24 PM
I remember when i was 12 or 13 i was playing airsoft with my friends....had the orange tip off of my m16 and everything. a cop rolled up calm as fuck and told us someone reported a kid with a gun and that i needed to put the orange tip back on so i did.....thats how you handle a situation like that.

and yep, im white.

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:24 PM
seriously.

What kind of lawyer are you hoping to be?

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:24 PM
What kind of lawyer are you hoping to be?
whoever is hiring. i've been working at an IP firm for the past couple of years, like what they do

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:24 PM
i find it hard to believe that somebody would think pulling a gun out in front of the cops is an appropriate way to make the situation safer for yourself

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:25 PM
when the suspect is a 12 yr old kid.....yeah you make damn sure that thing is real before you fucking shoot. 12 year olds are known for playing with toy guns and toys that could be mistaken for guns.

Anyone can sit back and play on the the what ifs. Pretty easy to do sitting comfortable behind a computer screen with all the time in the world to think about it. This is real life where a moment of hesitation can get people killed.

Once again though I hate that the kid was killed, noone should have to be killed but sadly this is not a perfect world.

Also sadly age vs crime is becoming very blurred in this day and age. Should that be? Hell no but once again its happening and that does need to be changed yes.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 05:25 PM
If someone told you that a revolver "probably" had no bullets in it, would you play Russian Roulette?

is this someone a 12 year old???

seriously.

ummm maybe because he's 12 and 2 police officers just pulled up on him with guns drawn. that can cause fear in 12 year olds.

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:26 PM
i find it hard to believe that somebody would think pulling a gun out in front of the cops is an appropriate way to make the situation safer for yourself

Perhaps you have a point with an adult. This is a 12-year old kid. Granted, it wasn't the best move to reach for something, but he might've panicked. You mix that up with a fuckin' rookie on lead patrol, you have a situation that went to the end game expediently.

Venti Quattro
11-26-2014, 05:26 PM
The fundamental issue here is why are blacks to stupid too realize that they're in the face of an authoritative figure and that they need to comply?

Trayvon Martin.

Michael Brown.

And now this kid.

Why, black people? Why do you have such a hard time complying to rules?

Pulling out a gun in front of a cop? Seriously? And you still think the kid didn't deserve to be shot? :lmao :lmao :lmao

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:26 PM
ummm maybe because he's 12 and 2 police officers just pulled up on him with guns drawn. that can cause fear in 12 year olds.
i'm not asking if the kid was scared. i asked why pulling out a fake gun would be an appropriate response to said fear

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 05:26 PM
i find it hard to believe that somebody would think pulling a gun out in front of the cops is an appropriate way to make the situation safer for yourself

i find it hard to believe that people could defend shooting a twelve year old, but here we are.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:27 PM
Perhaps you have a point with an adult. This is a 12-year old kid. Granted, it wasn't the best move to reach for something, but he might've panicked. You mix that up with a fuckin' rookie on lead patrol, you have a situation that went to the end game expediently.
case in point. a kid is less likely to act rationally, which inherently makes him dangerous. what if it was a real gun?

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:27 PM
The fundamental issue here is why are blacks to stupid to realize that they're facing authority and that they need to comply?

Trayvon Martin.

Michael Brown.

And now this kid.

Why, black people? Why do you have such a hard time complying to rules?

Because you can ask Amadou Diallo and Oscar Grant what happens when you do comply with police officers.

Clipper Nation
11-26-2014, 05:28 PM
More #TrillTears. You would have to be retarded to point anything that even looks like a gun at a police officer.

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 05:28 PM
Perhaps you have a point with an adult. This is a 12-year old kid. Granted, it wasn't the best move to reach for something, but he might've panicked. You mix that up with a fuckin' rookie on lead patrol, you have a situation that went to the end game expediently.
Comes back to being taught firearm safety, real or not.

DD
11-26-2014, 05:28 PM
Bad/negligent parenting can lead to these things.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:29 PM
i find it hard to believe that people could defend shooting a twelve year old, but here we are.
i said on a previous page that i found the police report to be fishy, in that they claimed they told him to drop his weapon 3 times... but the video shows that to be nearly impossible, unless they were shouting it before having gotten out of the vehicle.

that being said, if u have a report that theres a kid with a gun (which may or may not be real), and you get out of your car, the first thing he does it take the gun out... yeah i think the response is pretty obvious

hehateme
11-26-2014, 05:29 PM
is this someone a 12 year old???


ummm maybe because he's 12 and 2 police officers just pulled up on him with guns drawn. that can cause fear in 12 year olds.

Troll Clinton with the goods. Should have saw these responses a mile away and stayed away from the bait thread.

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:30 PM
case in point. a kid is less likely to act rationally, which inherently makes him dangerous. what if it was a real gun?

Dude was outnumbered 2 to 1--how would a 12-year old be able to take down these two cops? If you have to shoot what happened to the mantra that you shoot to disarm. Use the training to your advantage. Shooting first and then asking questions leads one to believe that there is a lack of quality training.

benefactor
11-26-2014, 05:30 PM
The fundamental issue here is why are blacks to stupid too realize that they're in the face of an authoritative figure and that they need to comply?

:ihit becuz fuk da police muh fukka :ihit

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:31 PM
Dude was outnumbered 2 to 1--how would a 12-year old be able to take down these two cops? If you have to shoot what happened to the mantra that you shoot to disarm. Use the training to your advantage. Shooting first and then asking questions leads one to believe that there is a lack of quality training.
why does it matter if the kid can or can't take out BOTH cops. if you are one of the cops, are u required to wait for the other guy to get killed before you can defend yourself?

and shoot to disarm? like in the movies where you shoot the gun out of somebody's hands? and its not like these guys were snipers that could take their time to line up a perfect shot. it was a reaction in the heat of the moment. somebody pulls out a gun, you fire.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 05:34 PM
Dude was outnumbered 2 to 1--how would a 12-year old be able to take down these two cops? If you have to shoot what happened to the mantra that you shoot to disarm. Use the training to your advantage. Shooting first and then asking questions leads one to believe that there is a lack of quality training.

nah cops are trained to shoot to kill, in that shooting someone should always be a last possible resort, and as such if you have to do it, you put the suspect down for good, but that isnt what happened here. what happened here was woeful incompetence.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 05:35 PM
if you cant operate under pressure and dont like being scrutinized maybe your ass shouldnt have become a cop.

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:37 PM
why does it matter if the kid can or can't take out BOTH cops. if you are one of the cops, are u required to wait for the other guy to get killed before you can defend yourself?Because if its policy to shoot without correctly assessing the situation, it means that either the training is wrong or that they should've approached this situation more cautiously. It has happened out here in Long Beach where the LBPD is notoriously quick to shoot and ask questions later. They recently lost a wrongful death case when the cops shot a dude that had a yard hose in his hand and they shot a transient lady with a shaft less screwdriver. If he was purposely pointing the gun then maybe it was a suicide-by-cop. However, there has to be a better way.

Venti Quattro
11-26-2014, 05:37 PM
nah cops are trained to shoot to kill, in that shooting someone should always be a last possible resort, and as such if you have to do it, you put the suspect down for good, but that isnt what happened here. what happened here was woeful incompetence.


if you cant operate under pressure and dont like being scrutinized maybe your ass shouldnt have become a cop.

He's a kid were you really expecting the cops to kill the kid. Given that he pulled out a gun and he should've been shot and all that shit...

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:42 PM
Because if its policy to shoot without correctly assessing the situation, it means that either the training is wrong or that they should've approached this situation more cautiously. It has happened out here in Long Beach where the LBPD is notoriously quick to shoot and ask questions later. They recently lost a wrongful death case when the cops shot a dude that had a yard hose in his hand and they shot a transient lady with a shaft less screwdriver. If he was purposely pointing the gun then maybe it was a suicide-by-cop. However, there has to be a better way.
i'm not suggesting those situations you mentioned are justified. but you get a call that there's someone with a gun (possibly real/possibly fake) and when u get out of the car, first thing the kid does is whip a gun out, i dont think anybody is going to sit there with the jeopardy music playing in their head trying to "assess the situation"

maybe if the kid's first action WASNT to pull a gun out in front of the cops, or at the very least had kept the orange safety tip on (which is mandatory literally for this exact reason), the situation would have called for something else

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:44 PM
We got allot of armchair badasses here.

Shoot to disarm...wtf?

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:45 PM
i'm not suggesting those situations you mentioned are justified. but you get a call that there's someone with a gun (possibly real/possibly fake) and when u get out of the car, first thing the kid does is whip a gun out, i dont think anybody is going to sit there with the jeopardy music playing in their head trying to "assess the situation"

maybe if the kid's first action WASNT to pull a gun out in front of the cops, or at the very least had kept the orange safety tip on (which is mandatory literally for this exact reason), the situation would have called for something else

That is true about the orange tip. Not sure why anyone would do that. As a kid, I made sure my whole gun was neon orange. It is a tough situation to dissect. I guess it will be interesting to see how this one plays out especially with the American public already doing their thing in regards to Ferguson.

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:47 PM
We got allot of armchair badasses here.

Shoot to disarm...wtf?

It's called having a discussion, you fuck.

The Reckoning
11-26-2014, 05:47 PM
my mom would slap me silly if she saw me with a bb gun in a park

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 05:47 PM
What kind of idiotic post is this? Side with the victim who pulled a weapon that looks real on cops of all people? How fucking stupid are you?

Yeah I'm siding with a 12 year old kid who probably didn't have a lot of time to process "Don't pull your gun out, even if it's to show the cop that it's fake." Cops know better. Why the fuck did they pull up so close?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 05:48 PM
That is true about the orange tip. Not sure why anyone would do that. As a kid, I made sure my whole gun was neon orange. It is a tough situation to dissect. I guess it will be interesting to see how this one plays out especially with the American public already doing their thing in regards to Ferguson.

We always removed or colored over any part of the gun that made it look like a toy. But we were white and playing army, which is totally different.

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 05:48 PM
That is true about the orange tip. Not sure why anyone would do that. As a kid, I made sure my whole gun was neon orange. It is a tough situation to dissect. I guess it will be interesting to see how this one plays out especially with the American public already doing their thing in regards to Ferguson.
Well, considering the mother asked that the video be released, I think she is acknowledged the police were not at fault.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:48 PM
It's called having a discussion, you fuck.
My point is its easy to come up with plenty of what ifs outside of a situation.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 05:49 PM
Moral of the story: if you're a rich Nevada rancher who points guns at law enforcement along with your redneck militia buddies after not paying grazing fees, you're hailed as a tea party patriot with fox news as your cheerleader. If you're a less well-off member of society, especially a person of color, your death is justifiable, even if you're 12 and it was a toy gun that you didn't even get around to pointing at the cops.

You people just need to know your role and shut up. This is America, if you don't have money and connections you ain't worth squat.

hehateme
11-26-2014, 05:51 PM
Yeah I'm siding with a 12 year old kid who probably didn't have a lot of time to process "Don't pull your gun out, even if it's to show the cop that it's fake." Cops know better. Why the fuck did they pull up so close?

A 12 year old kid knows right from wrong. Your logic is flawed, please insert your foot in your mouth and shut the fuck up.

The Gemini Method
11-26-2014, 05:51 PM
Considering anyone that posts on the board was not part of either Ferguson or the Cleveland incident, its all what-ifs. But that's what makes this interesting. Varying opinions on the subject matter and it entertains. At least its not photoshopping people and a glut of fucking emoticons.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:51 PM
We always removed or colored over any part of the gun that made it look like a toy.
good for you

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:52 PM
Moral of the story: if you're a rich Nevada rancher who points guns at law enforcement along with your redneck militia buddies after not paying grazing fees, you're hailed as a tea party patriot with fox news as your cheerleader. If you're a less well-off member of society, especially a person of color, your death is justifiable, even if you're 12 and it was a toy gun that you didn't even get around to pointing at the cops.

You people just need to know your role and shut up. This is America, if you don't have money and connections you ain't worth squat.
moral of the post: assholes will try to politicize everything

Malik Hairston
11-26-2014, 05:53 PM
Not surprised that this happened in Cleveland, tbh..makes LeCoon's return even more pathetic:lol..

hehateme
11-26-2014, 05:54 PM
Not surprised that this happened in Cleveland, tbh..makes LeCoon's return even more pathetic:lol..

He did just release his views on the Ferguson issue. I am guessing he will be labeled as an Uncle Tom now, if he hasn't already.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 05:54 PM
We always removed or colored over any part of the gun that made it look like a toy.

And You put yourselves at "risk" in doing so.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 05:54 PM
^can't wait till athletes chime in on this one :lol

"how can i explain this to my kids? they should be able to remove the orange safety cap from a toy gun, point it at people, and if a police officer shows up, they should whip the gun out, and be totally ok. this is an unjust world. #blacklivesmatter

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 05:57 PM
moral of the post: assholes will try to politicize everything

Lol your Armenian ass supports Bundy, huh? He thanks you for your support, but doesn't really need it. Your kind doesn't write the rules, just stay down and do as you're told, there's a nice chap

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 06:03 PM
Considering anyone that posts on the board was not part of either Ferguson or the Cleveland incident, its all what-ifs. But that's what makes this interesting. Varying opinions on the subject matter and it entertains. At least its not photoshopping people and a glut of fucking emoticons.


Moral of the story: if you're a rich Nevada rancher who points guns at law enforcement along with your redneck militia buddies after not paying grazing fees, you're hailed as a tea party patriot with fox news as your cheerleader. If you're a less well-off member of society, especially a person of color, your death is justifiable, even if you're 12 and it was a toy gun that you didn't even get around to pointing at the cops.

You people just need to know your role and shut up. This is America, if you don't have money and connections you ain't worth squat.

:tu

Koolaid_Man
11-26-2014, 06:06 PM
Moral of the story: if you're a rich Nevada rancher who points guns at law enforcement along with your redneck militia buddies after not paying grazing fees, you're hailed as a tea party patriot with fox news as your cheerleader. If you're a less well-off member of society, especially a person of color, your death is justifiable, even if you're 12 and it was a toy gun that you didn't even get around to pointing at the cops.

You people just need to know your role and shut up. This is America, if you don't have money and connections you ain't worth squat.

:tu

Clipper Nation
11-26-2014, 06:09 PM
Moral of the story: if you're a rich Nevada rancher who points guns at law enforcement along with your redneck militia buddies after not paying grazing fees, you're hailed as a tea party patriot with fox news as your cheerleader. If you're a less well-off member of society, especially a person of color, your death is justifiable, even if you're 12 and it was a toy gun that you didn't even get around to pointing at the cops.

You people just need to know your role and shut up. This is America, if you don't have money and connections you ain't worth squat.
Libtard tears aside, if you point anything that even looks like a gun at a cop, or if you charge at a cop and try to take their weapon, you are taking your life in your hands.

Creepn
11-26-2014, 06:15 PM
Also people using they OMG he was shot in seconds when he pulled out the gun!!! Murderers!!!. IT only takes a second of hesitation to be killed.

Then how the fuck you supposed to surrender your "weapon"?

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 06:20 PM
Libtard tears aside, if you point anything that even looks like a gun at a cop, or if you charge at a cop and try to take their weapon, you are taking your life in your hands.

That might well be true, but it doesn't apply equally to all Americans. If you think the government and law enforcement are consistent about how and where they choose to apply force, you're completely out of touch with reality.

As an aside, that "rule" you mentioned wouldn't apply in 95% of the developed world. The only places where such incidents happen are poor Asian / African countries and the good old USA

RsxPiimp
11-26-2014, 06:22 PM
The kid most likely didn't knew how to react. But If it was an airsoft gun with the orange label indicator puled off. There is no way of telling it apart from the real deal until it's fired. It's tragic, but can't blame the cops on this one. Remember all the intentional shootings involving 12 year olds. Time is a luxury the officer didn't have, unfortunately.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 06:27 PM
Why the fuck did they pull up so close?

From the video where the security camera was positioned most likely on a building. They probably pulled in between him and the reck building to intercept him where there were people inside.

Chomag
11-26-2014, 06:32 PM
The kid most likely didn't knew how to react. But If it was an airsoft gun with the orange label indicator puled off. There is no way of telling it apart from the real deal until it's fired. It's tragic, but can't blame the cops on this one. Remember all the intentional shootings involving 12 year olds. Time is a luxury the officer didn't have, unfortunately.

This is exactly how I am seeing this. Sad that this happened but he put himself at a risk with the removal of the orange label indicator. There is a reason why all toy guns must have them. I wish this situation didn't happen and im sure neither did the cops but they had to address the situation as it's their job to do so.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 06:37 PM
I gotta say, at least this kid got a few seconds to react before he was put down. The other incident that happened a couple of months back when cops shot a man holding a bb gun inside Walmart (he'd picked it up from the store itself) didn't get any warning before he became target practice for the cops. And no, they didn't get indicted either:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/24/walmart_bb_gun_no_indictment_john_crawford_shooter s_will_not_be_charged.html

So I don't know what y'all are whining about. Cops are always right, accept it and move on.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 06:44 PM
:cry

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 06:47 PM
:yield

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 06:56 PM
^:lol that was a good one

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 07:07 PM
All in good fun, buddy :lol

Clipper Nation
11-26-2014, 07:29 PM
That might well be true, but it doesn't apply equally to all Americans. If you think the government and law enforcement are consistent about how and where they choose to apply force, you're completely out of touch with reality.
It applied equally to Dillon Taylor and to Mike Brown.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 07:42 PM
It applied equally to Dillon Taylor and to Mike Brown.

That doesn't make it fair or consistent across all Americans. Cops get away with too much too often, and the present system is not able to hold them accountable. As a libertarian, you should be the last person arguing that trigger-happy cops are justified in their behaviour.

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 07:49 PM
That doesn't make it fair or consistent across all Americans. Cops get away with too much too often, and the present system is not able to hold them accountable. As a libertarian, you should be the last person arguing that trigger-happy cops are justified in their behaviour.
If you have noticed, I am one who has complained about trigger happy cops several times. Not in this case however.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 07:57 PM
That doesn't make it fair or consistent across all Americans. Cops get away with too much too often, and the present system is not able to hold them accountable. As a libertarian, you should be the last person arguing that trigger-happy cops are justified in their behaviour.
there are absolutely cases of excess force, cops being too trigger happy, or just over-reaching their rights. they probably do get away more often than they should when they do commit a wrong

my beef with all this is, people pretend to care about the overarching issue, but they only show their care when there's a racial angle they can play. they also refuse to accept the possibility than the cop's action might have been justified in a particular case

i think its crazy by now that there aren't more videos... where was officer wilson's camera? or at least something to pick up an audio recording. but even this isn't foolproof. the dillon taylor case was all caught on camera and he still got off the hook. THAT is the most maddening case of it all, but nobody here even pretends to give a shit about it, because they can't play the "racial victim" or "oppression" angle

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 08:13 PM
It applied equally to Dillon Taylor and to Mike Brown.

LOL Libertarian

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 08:14 PM
6-Year Old Black Kid Plowed Over by Police Car in Crosswalk

The Club's reaction: "He should have looked both ways."

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 08:17 PM
And You put yourselves at "risk" in doing so.

Ha, right. We were never at risk. No one calls the cops on a bunch of white kids in a nice neighborhood playing guns.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:18 PM
Armed robber opens fire, is killed by police

The Club's reaction: "The system is racist."

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:18 PM
Ha, right. We were never at risk. No one calls the cops on a bunch of white kids in a nice neighborhood playing guns.
lol at playing guns in a public park

DJR210
11-26-2014, 08:19 PM
Glad that little hoodlum is gone. The officer was threatened with a firearm, and had every right to defend himself. With all the crooked bullshit going on out there, it's good to finally hear a good story about the police.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 08:19 PM
Sure, an armed robber and a 12 year old playing with a toy are totally the same.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 08:20 PM
there are absolutely cases of excess force, cops being too trigger happy, or just over-reaching their rights. they probably do get away more often than they should when they do commit a wrong

my beef with all this is, people pretend to care about the overarching issue, but they only show their care when there's a racial angle they can play. they also refuse to accept the possibility than the cop's action might have been justified in a particular case

i think its crazy by now that there aren't more videos... where was officer wilson's camera? or at least something to pick up an audio recording. but even this isn't foolproof. the dillon taylor case was all caught on camera and he still got off the hook. THAT is the most maddening case of it all, but nobody here even pretends to give a shit about it, because they can't play the "racial victim" or "oppression" angle

I agree with most of what you said. The overarching issue is that cops, who should be held to higher standards, are allowed to get away with shooting people for flimsy reasons. Do they go into the Hamptons or into the offices of well-known corporations to pull this stuff? No, they do this where they feel they can get away with it. That means people who are poorer, who may not understand their rights, who live in areas where crime is high, who don't trust cops anyway.

Statistically, black people meet those criteria more often on an average. Add in America's racial legacy and it just spirals towards the race topic. If the problem was confronted at its root cause by instituting severe punitive action on cops, the race aspect wouldn't be raised. But because the justice system and elected officials protect the cops, the outcome is always going to be difficult to stomach for minorities.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 08:20 PM
lol at playing guns in a public park

LOL at you thinking a kid being dumb deserves to get offed. Hope your kid never does anything stupid.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:21 PM
LOL at you thinking a kid being dumb deserves to get offed. Hope your kid never does anything stupid.
i wouldnt leave my 12 year old kid unsupervised in a public park with a toy gun after removing the orange safety cap

100%duncan
11-26-2014, 08:24 PM
Why the fuck would you point a fake gun without it orange safety tip at somebody in the first place? More so at a fucking police officer.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 08:27 PM
Also, if the general rule is that any kid that reaches for a toy gun in front of a cop deserves to get shot, then kids with disabilities are well and truly screwed. What if a kid is deaf and unable to hear a cop's orders? What if a kid is autistic and behaves abnormally? Any society where a kid can be killed for being dumb or disabled needs to take a hard look at where its heading. And this is not a hypothetical point. No other industrialised country from Canada to the UK to Germany to the Scandinavian countries has seen repeated incidents of this sort.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 08:33 PM
i wouldnt leave my 12 year old kid unsupervised in a public park with a toy gun after removing the orange safety cap

12 years old is around the age where you start letting them out in the neighborhood on their own, especially boys. he could remove the tip after you tell him not to, or if you refuse to buy him a toy gun he could probably pretty easily borrow one off a friend.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:36 PM
12 years old is around the age where you start letting them out in the neighborhood on their own, especially boys. he could remove the tip after you tell him not to, or if you refuse to buy him a toy gun he could probably pretty easily borrow one off a friend.
thank you for telling me what i will do with my future son when he is 12 years old

when do you think his curfew should be at age 15 while we're talking?

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:37 PM
Also, if the general rule is that any kid that reaches for a toy gun in front of a cop deserves to get shot, then kids with disabilities are well and truly screwed. What if a kid is deaf and unable to hear a cop's orders? What if a kid is autistic and behaves abnormally? Any society where a kid can be killed for being dumb or disabled needs to take a hard look at where its heading. And this is not a hypothetical point. No other industrialised country from Canada to the UK to Germany to the Scandinavian countries has seen repeated incidents of this sort.
why is this limited to a child? what if an adult with a gun is deaf or is autistic and behaves abnormally. is he not a threat?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 08:37 PM
I still haven't seen anyone explain why the cops had to pull up so close to the kid. Why didn't they address him from a distance where the risk was lower that he could fire upon them? There's no time at that range to make ANY decisions. Cops are more cautious when they pull over a speeding motorist than these guys were.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 08:38 PM
thank you for telling me what i will do with my future son when he is 12 years old

when do you think his curfew should be at age 15 while we're talking?

thats right, stray from the topic.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:39 PM
I still haven't seen anyone explain why the cops had to pull up so close to the kid. Why didn't they address him from a distance where the risk was lower that he could fire upon them? There's no time at that range to make ANY decisions. Cops are more cautious when they pull over a speeding motorist than these guys were.
this is a more valid criticism. if they felt he was dangerous, they should have kept more distance.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:40 PM
thats right, stray from the topic.
lol, your previous post was instructing me of what my kid will be doing at age 12. when i correct you, i'm straying from the topic.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 08:46 PM
why is this limited to a child? what if an adult with a gun is deaf or is autistic and behaves abnormally. is he not a threat?

Everything is possible, the question is about the likelihood. When Grandma reaches inside her bag in a Walmart, its possible that she might pull out a gun or a grenade. But its likely that she's doing something far more mundane. A child at a park aimlessly wandering around with a "gun" - how likely is it that he's been waiting for cops to show up so that he can fire at them? Its a lot more likely that its a toy, and that he means no harm.

Cops use judgement, that's part of their job. If they start shooting because they are afraid of improbable scenarios turning out to be true, they should look for a different job.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 08:47 PM
lol, your previous post was instructing me of what my kid will be doing at age 12. when i correct you, i'm straying from the topic.

i didnt instruct you to do anything actually.....just pointing out to you that a kid doesnt always follow every single rule their parent tells them......ie, the orange tip on the gun......

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:47 PM
Everything is possible, the question is about the likelihood. When Grandma reaches inside her bag in a Walmart, its possible that she might pull out a gun or a grenade. But its likely that she's doing something far more mundane. A child at a park aimlessly wandering around with a "gun" - how likely is it that he's been waiting for cops to show up so that he can fire at them? Its a lot more likely that its a toy, and that he means no harm.

Cops use judgement, that's part of their job. If they start shooting because they are afraid of improbable scenarios turning out to be true, they should look for a different job.
when a cop is specifically called to a scene because of a gun scare...

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:50 PM
i didnt instruct you to do anything actually.....just pointing out to you that a kid doesnt always follow every single rule their parent tells them......ie, the orange tip on the gun......
you were telling me that i would let him out to the park on his own, and went on from there. irresponsible parenting can get kids in trouble. if your kid is unsupervised in a public park wielding what looks like a gun, then you're doing something wrong

100%duncan
11-26-2014, 08:52 PM
I still haven't seen anyone explain why the cops had to pull up so close to the kid. Why didn't they address him from a distance where the risk was lower that he could fire upon them? There's no time at that range to make ANY decisions. Cops are more cautious when they pull over a speeding motorist than these guys were.

Now this is a valid point of argument. They should have pulled out from a far and had a megaphone or something to talk to the kid.

DMC
11-26-2014, 08:57 PM
he says "its probably fake"

So that's the difference between using necessary force and just walking up and taking the gun from the person, because someone said "it could be fake"?

lol

Teach your kids that guns are not toys, that pulling even a toy gun on anyone, especially an officer, is wrong and could lead to their deaths. Where was the kid's father? Why was the kid walking around a rec center pulling out a fake gun and pointing it at people? Whatever the cause, people get shot all the time for doing stupid shit when told to not do stupid shit.

Beautiful kid, tragedy, but avoidable if the kid had proper upbringing.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 08:57 PM
you were telling me that i would let him out to the park on his own, and went on from there. irresponsible parenting can get kids in trouble. if your kid is unsupervised in a public park wielding what looks like a gun, then you're doing something wrong

its not irresponsible parenting to let a 12 year old go to a rec center by themselves bro. i see it every day. when i said "you" i meant it in a universal sense. i wasnt giving you instruction on anything. if you go back and read it i have no idea how you could construe it as me telling you what to do.

But OK helicopter dad whos magically gonna supervise every single little thing their kid does while simultaneously holding down a career job. keep telling yourself that.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 08:59 PM
its not irresponsible parenting to let a 12 year old go to a rec center by themselves bro. i see it every day. when i said "you" i meant it in a universal sense. i wasnt giving you instruction on anything. if you go back and read it i have no idea how you could construe it as me telling you what to do.

But OK helicopter dad whos magically gonna supervise every single little thing their kid does while simultaneously holding down a career job. keep telling yourself that.
didnt say i'd be there personally. again, if my kid is unsupervised in a public park with a toy-gun (particularly with the safety cap removed), then something went wrong to begin with

DMC
11-26-2014, 08:59 PM
I still haven't seen anyone explain why the cops had to pull up so close to the kid. Why didn't they address him from a distance where the risk was lower that he could fire upon them? There's no time at that range to make ANY decisions. Cops are more cautious when they pull over a speeding motorist than these guys were.


this is a more valid criticism. if they felt he was dangerous, they should have kept more distance.


Now this is a valid point of argument. They should have pulled out from a far and had a megaphone or something to talk to the kid.

It's not valid. Cops are there to protect the civilians. If they get a report of a person waving a gun around, they have to intervene. They don't stop at a distance where the cops cannot mitigate the situation by neutralizing the suspect while the suspect is in a position to open fire on civilians at will. It might sound like a good idea in retrospect, but that's not how intervention happens.

Warlord23
11-26-2014, 08:59 PM
when a cop is specifically called to a scene because of a gun scare...

He needs to calmly attempt to ascertain facts and assess the threat. If the threat is definite, call for backup and intervene with force if someone is in imminent danger. If the threat is not certain, attempt to find out more without putting himself in potential harm's way. He could have assessed the child's age from a distance, shouted out to him from behind his car, used a bullhorn, fired in the air from a safe spot to scare the kid into dropping the toy, etc.

100%duncan
11-26-2014, 09:01 PM
It's not valid. Cops are there to protect the civilians. If they get a report of a person waving a gun around, they have to intervene. They don't stop at a distance where the cops cannot mitigate the situation by neutralizing the suspect while the suspect is in a position to open fire on civilians at will. It might sound like a good idea in retrospect, but that's not how intervention happens.

What? I don't have a problem with them shooting at someone who has a gun pointed at them. See my first resply to the thread. But they could have handled it better if they gave their selves more room to move around the situation. i.e. staying from a distance, talking to a kid.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:01 PM
It's not valid. Cops are there to protect the civilians. If they get a report of a person waving a gun around, they have to intervene. They don't stop at a distance where the cops cannot mitigate the situation by neutralizing the suspect while the suspect is in a position to open fire on civilians at will. It might sound like a good idea in retrospect, but that's not how intervention happens.

Yeah, they intervene by pulling in from a distance, pointing their guns at him and telling him to put his gun on the ground and put his hands up.

Sometimes I don't know what country you guys think you live in.

100%duncan
11-26-2014, 09:02 PM
Also you're acting like I said soemthing that they should be a mile away or something. A few more meters say could have helped.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 09:03 PM
didnt say i'd be there personally. again, if my kid is unsupervised in a public park with a toy-gun (particularly with the safety cap removed), then something went wrong to begin with

no it didnt. its normal as fuck for kids to play with toy guns. of course they remove the orange cap to make it look real. maybe we should blame the company that made the orange cap removable from the toy gun in the first place!

or we could use common sense and deduce for ourselves what probably happened, and know that if the gun WAS real, and the kid was waving it around like people say, someone would have noticed something A LOT sooner, and multiple calls would have been made for the police.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 09:03 PM
didnt say i'd be there personally. again, if my kid is unsupervised in a public park with a toy-gun (particularly with the safety cap removed), then something went wrong to begin with

no it didnt. its normal as fuck for kids to play with toy guns. of course they remove the orange cap to make it look real. maybe we should blame the company that made the orange cap removable from the toy gun in the first place!

or we could use common sense and deduce for ourselves what probably happened, and know that if the gun WAS real, and the kid was waving it around like people say, someone would have noticed something A LOT sooner, and multiple calls would have been made for the police.

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 09:05 PM
where does tamir point the gun at the cops in the video???

100%duncan
11-26-2014, 09:07 PM
where does tamir point the gun at the cops in the video???

When they arrive...

Trill Clinton
11-26-2014, 09:09 PM
When they arrive...

which video and what is the time stamp???

he gets shot before he pulls it from his waistband.

Clipper Nation
11-26-2014, 09:13 PM
LOL Libertarian
LOL Libtard

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:16 PM
What? I don't have a problem with them shooting at someone who has a gun pointed at them. See my first resply to the thread. But they could have handled it better if they gave their selves more room to move around the situation. i.e. staying from a distance, talking to a kid.

Or not shown up at all. If the guy has a gun, you cannot just sit back and hope he complies with your commands at a "safe" distance. What might be safe for officers isn't safe for the public if the kid actually does have a gun. What if it was a mass shooting about to take place, and the cops just stood at distance and tried to talk to the individual. The guy starts popping shots at people possibly killing someone. Then the same people come here and say the cops didn't act quickly enough, that they allowed the person to shoot innocent people and did nothing to stop them.

You cannot have it both ways, you either call the cops so they can stop the situation or you get off your ass and go take the "fake" gun from the "kid" wielding it. That would have prevented the shooting. When you call the cops, you're calling people who also have guns, and they aren't coming to chat. Even at a distance, had it gotten to conversation and the police set up a shooter (and they would), the shot would have been taken when the kid drew and pointed the gun. The bullet travels faster than reaction time, so they'd have to park 200 meters away just to be "safe". That makes them useless to the people in the area (kids) who cops think are in immediate danger.

It's real easy after the fact to keyboard command the situation, but had a Sandy Hook type incident occurred, what then?

12 year olds have no business carrying guns around in their waistbands, and even less business pulling it routinely on passers by and cops. It was bound to happen. It's a chronic issue in black communities where single parent kids are raised by friends instead of parents. Yes it could have been anyone's kid, of any race, but it wasn't.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:17 PM
LOL Libtard

I'm not sure what fundamental tenet of Liberalism "Kids should not be at risk of being immediately shot for playing with toys in a park" falls under, but I know advocating unchecked authoritarianism sure as hell isn't Libertarianism.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:20 PM
no it didnt. its normal as fuck for kids to play with toy guns. of course they remove the orange cap to make it look real. maybe we should blame the company that made the orange cap removable from the toy gun in the first place!

or we could use common sense and deduce for ourselves what probably happened, and know that if the gun WAS real, and the kid was waving it around like people say, someone would have noticed something A LOT sooner, and multiple calls would have been made for the police.

Like at Sandy Hook, in Aurora and Virginia Tech? How'd that work out?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:23 PM
Or not shown up at all. If the guy has a gun, you cannot just sit back and hope he complies with your commands at a "safe" distance. What might be safe for officers isn't safe for the public if the kid actually does have a gun. What if it was a mass shooting about to take place, and the cops just stood at distance and tried to talk to the individual. The guy starts popping shots at people possibly killing someone. Then the same people come here and say the cops didn't act quickly enough, that they allowed the person to shoot innocent people and did nothing to stop them.

You cannot have it both ways, you either call the cops so they can stop the situation or you get off your ass and go take the "fake" gun from the "kid" wielding it. That would have prevented the shooting. When you call the cops, you're calling people who also have guns, and they aren't coming to chat. Even at a distance, had it gotten to conversation and the police set up a shooter (and they would), the shot would have been taken when the kid drew and pointed the gun. The bullet travels faster than reaction time, so they'd have to park 200 meters away just to be "safe". That makes them useless to the people in the area (kids) who cops think are in immediate danger.

It's real easy after the fact to keyboard command the situation, but had a Sandy Hook type incident occurred, what then?

12 year olds have no business carrying guns around in their waistbands, and even less business pulling it routinely on passers by and cops. It was bound to happen. It's a chronic issue in black communities where single parent kids are raised by friends instead of parents. Yes it could have been anyone's kid, of any race, but it wasn't.

What if what if what if. This was a single suspected shooter in an open area. You park 30 feet away, get behind your car and tell him to put the fucking gun down.

If it was standard policy for cops to shoot any suspect that may present a danger, how do they apprehend so many armed criminals? Why would they have taken James Holmes in? Motherfucker killed twelve people, but procedure is to shoot as a last resort.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:25 PM
Yeah, they intervene by pulling in from a distance, pointing their guns at him and telling him to put his gun on the ground and put his hands up.

Sometimes I don't know what country you guys think you live in.

What are they going to do from a distance? Do you know the effective accuracy at more than 50m with a handgun? Have you ever fired a handgun?

http://www.airsoft-obsessed.com/images/AEGM15A4Carbine.jpg

This is an airsoft M4. Let's see you walk into a police station pointing it at people. See how long you live with the "toy" gun.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:31 PM
What if what if what if. This was a single suspected shooter in an open area. You park 30 feet away, get behind your car and tell him to put the fucking gun down.

If it was standard policy for cops to shoot any suspect that may present a danger, how do they apprehend so many armed criminals? Why would they have taken James Holmes in? Motherfucker killed twelve people, but procedure is to shoot as a last resort.

1. Wrong

He wasn't a suspected shooter. He was waving a gun around. No one reported shots fired.

2. 30 feet is no different than 10 feet where a handgun is concerned. How do you suppose a cop negotiates around his vehicle to safety to tell someone to put down a weapon? How did the cops even know who the suspect was until he reached into his waistband? What if that wasn't the suspect?

3. Hyperbole is rampant already without you employing it at every turn. The cops didn't shoot at "any suspect that may present a danger", they shot at a person who drew a handgun on them when told to put his hands up, the same person who was reported to have been waving a gun around at a rec center. James Holmes didn't point a gun at the officers. He surrendered. You pose a direct threat, you get neutralized. If the kid pulled the same gun on me I would have shot him as well. If you're honest and have a CHL you'd likely have done the same, unless you think you'd wait for the report of the firearm before acting... ignoring that sudden sharp pain in your chest.

unleashbaynes
11-26-2014, 09:31 PM
What are they going to do from a distance? Do you know the effective accuracy at more than 50m with a handgun? Have you ever fired a handgun?

http://www.airsoft-obsessed.com/images/AEGM15A4Carbine.jpg

This is an airsoft M4. Let's see you walk into a police station pointing it at people. See how long you live with the "toy" gun.

i had a tokyo marui m16 airsoft gun when i was a kid. yep, i removed the orange tip. i also played with it at a park near the soccer fields by my friends house. i also had the cops called on me once when i was the first kid to get to the park and was just carrying it around.

the cop politely asked what it was and took my info. no gun drawn, no stern voice, no misunderstandings. wonder why that is.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:33 PM
I'm not sure what fundamental tenet of Liberalism "Kids should not be at risk of being immediately shot for playing with toys in a park" falls under, but I know advocating unchecked authoritarianism sure as hell isn't Libertarianism.

lol 12 year old pulls gun replica on unaware cops, gets shot, you call it "playing with a toy in the park". I guess Michael Brown was playing football with the cop.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:33 PM
Hold

DPG21920
11-26-2014, 09:33 PM
i had a tokyo marui m16 airsoft gun when i was a kid. yep, i removed the orange tip. i also played with it at a park near the soccer fields by my friends house. i also had the cops called on me once when i was the first kid to get to the park and was just carrying it around.

the cop politely asked what it was and took my info. no gun drawn, no stern voice, no misunderstandings. wonder why that is.

:lol Implying that no black kids have ever been in this situation without dying.

Wild Cobra
11-26-2014, 09:34 PM
i had a tokyo marui m16 airsoft gun when i was a kid. yep, i removed the orange tip. i also played with it at a park near the soccer fields by my friends house. i also had the cops called on me once when i was the first kid to get to the park and was just carrying it around.

the cop politely asked what it was and took my info. no gun drawn, no stern voice, no misunderstandings. wonder why that is.

1) It was Texas, right?

2) How many years ago?

3) Was the violent crime rate in your area anywhere close to that of Cleveland, today?

DPG21920
11-26-2014, 09:35 PM
Thanks for the unrelated hypothetical scenario.

This is the BB gun Tamir Rice was holding
http://media2.scrippsnationalnews.com/photo/2014/11/24/1416805988_9799879_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

He was in a park, not a police station. And hey, look at that headline... He "reached for" a weapon.

So a 12 year old with a toy gun has a cop car pull right up next to him. What do you think is the more likely motive for him reaching for his gun? "Hey, I'm gonna point it at this cop" or "Hey, I have to show them it's just a BB gun?"

I know, I know, dumbass should know he's not supposed to reach for his gun at all, so he deserved to die.

I don't think anyone saying he deserved to die. There is a massive difference in saying "the kid deserved to die" and "what the cop did stands to reason in a situation that could have been deadly". I think it should have been handled differently, but saying this equates to the kid deserving to die is not apples to apples with what happened/is being said.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:41 PM
What are they going to do from a distance? Do you know the effective accuracy at more than 50m with a handgun? Have you ever fired a handgun?

http://www.airsoft-obsessed.com/images/AEGM15A4Carbine.jpg

This is an airsoft M4. Let's see you walk into a police station pointing it at people. See how long you live with the "toy" gun.

This is the gun he was holding.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4678599.ece/alternates/s615/Airsoft-plastic-BB-gun.jpg

So, again, why couldn't they park further away?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:43 PM
1. Wrong

He wasn't a suspected shooter. He was waving a gun around. No one reported shots fired.

Thank you for pointing out my error in wording. So even less reason to shoot first and ask questions later.


2. 30 feet is no different than 10 feet where a handgun is concerned. How do you suppose a cop negotiates around his vehicle to safety to tell someone to put down a weapon? How did the cops even know who the suspect was until he reached into his waistband? What if that wasn't the suspect?

How do cops ever apprehend armed suspects if they are at that much risk every time they respond to a scene involving a gun?


3. Hyperbole is rampant already without you employing it at every turn. The cops didn't shoot at "any suspect that may present a danger", they shot at a person who drew a handgun on them when told to put his hands up, the same person who was reported to have been waving a gun around at a rec center. James Holmes didn't point a gun at the officers. He surrendered. You pose a direct threat, you get neutralized. If the kid pulled the same gun on me I would have shot him as well. If you're honest and have a CHL you'd likely have done the same, unless you think you'd wait for the report of the firearm before acting... ignoring that sudden sharp pain in your chest.

He didn't draw his handgun. He reached for it. Probably to show them it was a pellet gun. If they were further away, he might have had that chance.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:43 PM
Why, it was a toy gun. Why park further away if it's a toy gun?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:45 PM
I don't think anyone saying he deserved to die. There is a massive difference in saying "the kid deserved to die" and "what the cop did stands to reason in a situation that could have been deadly". I think it should have been handled differently, but saying this equates to the kid deserving to die is not apples to apples with what happened/is being said.

I don't think there is much difference at all in saying

"Dumb kid should know not to wave a real-looking gun around in a park or reach for it when a cop pulls up, when you do that, you get shot."

and

"Dumb kid deserved to die."

But agree to disagree, I guess.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 09:47 PM
I don't think there is much difference at all in saying

"Dumb kid should know not to wave a real-looking gun around in a park or reach for it when a cop pulls up, when you do that, you get shot."

and

"Dumb kid deserved to die."

But agree to disagree, I guess.
doing something wrong doesnt mean you deserve to die. but doing something wrong can get you killed

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:51 PM
Thank you for pointing out my error in wording. So even less reason to shoot first and ask questions later.

Catch phrases might sound cool to you but they don't gain any traction in decent conversations. Cops draw their guns to shoot. Cops with drawn guns are cops who will shoot if you draw a gun on them. Why will they shoot? What should they wait for before shooting, gunfire from the suspect?

Suppose for an instant it wasn't a toy gun, that it was a real gun. Same situation to the cops, did they act hastily to shoot a person who draws a real gun on them when told to put their hands up? Are you basing your argument on the convenience of knowing the gun was a toy? Cops didn't have that convenience, they didn't read it online and get several minutes or hours to assess the situation. They arrived, saw the kid, told him to put his hands up and he drew what looked like a real gun, not a wallet or a cell phone but a gun. If the cop thinks "maybe toy" maybe cop doesn't make it home that night.


How do cops ever apprehend armed suspects if they are at that much risk every time they respond to a scene involving a gun?

Cops rarely apprehend an armed suspect. By the time the suspect is apprehended, he's voluntarily disarmed himself.
Those who haven't often haven't reported they are armed in the first place and if they drew on the cop, well just figure that out. Ever see the video of the young kid who shoots the cop through the window of a stolen car? Kid was younger than that one I think. Cop didn't see the gun, but if he had, should he have reacted to it like it was a toy and stuck his finger in the barrel?


He didn't draw his handgun. He reached for it. Probably to show them it was fake. If they were further away, he might have had that chance.
You don't draw a gun on people to show it's a fake. That's why kids and guns don't belong together without adult supervision, especially in public. Carry that M4 I showed you into a police station to show it's a fake. I dare you.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:51 PM
doing something wrong doesnt mean you deserve to die. but doing something wrong can get you killed

In this case it shouldn't have, and hopefully the responsible party will be held appropriately responsible. If not, people will be justifiably angry.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:52 PM
I don't think there is much difference at all in saying

"Dumb kid should know not to wave a real-looking gun around in a park or reach for it when a cop pulls up, when you do that, you get shot."

and

"Dumb kid deserved to die."

But agree to disagree, I guess.
Not dumb, just ignorant. He was kid, kids are ignorant.

You're looking for a bifurcation scenario where there is clear fault and clear innocence and not all situations are like that.

DMC
11-26-2014, 09:53 PM
In this case it shouldn't have, and hopefully the responsible party will be held appropriately responsible. If not, people will be justifiably angry.
The responsible party is the kid's parent/s. Cops should always respond to a gun in that manner if they want to live. Some might not respond that way but that's because many cops are afraid to pull the trigger and that's why they die.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:57 PM
Catch phrases might sound cool to you but they don't gain any traction in decent conversations. Cops draw their guns to shoot. Cops with drawn guns are cops who will shoot if you draw a gun on them. Why will they shoot? What should they wait for before shooting, gunfire from the suspect?

Suppose for an instant it wasn't a toy gun, that it was a real gun. Same situation to the cops, did they act hastily to shoot a person who draws a real gun on them when told to put their hands up? Are you basing your argument on the convenience of knowing the gun was a toy? Cops didn't have that convenience, they didn't read it online and get several minutes or hours to assess the situation. They arrived, saw the kid, told him to put his hands up and he drew what looked like a real gun, not a wallet or a cell phone but a gun. If the cop thinks "maybe toy" maybe cop doesn't make it home that night.

Well he didn't draw his gun. He reached for it. Two seconds after they arrived. At their position, they did not leave themselves enough time to appropriately

Hell, if this was standard procedure, what's stopping me from calling in any random person as having a gun and them having a good chance of being shot without any questions asked?


Cops rarely apprehend an armed suspect. By the time the suspect is apprehended, he's voluntarily disarmed himself.

Usually because they're given time to do so.


You don't draw a gun on people to show it's a fake.

Easy for you to say with the benefit of hindisght and not being 12.


That's why kids and guns don't belong together without adult supervision, especially in public. Carry that M4 I showed you into a police station to show it's a fake. I dare you.

You keep bringing this hypothetical scenario up even though it is completely unrelated. But I'll still play the game and say that in most cases, he wouldn't be fatally shot on sight for doing that.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 09:58 PM
The responsible party is the kid's parent/s. Cops should always respond to a gun in that manner if they want to live. Some might not respond that way but that's because many cops are afraid to pull the trigger and that's why they die.

We're not going to agree on this. I believe this cop will be put on trial and we can discuss actual police procedure then, instead of all these hypotheticals.

Happy Thanksgiving.

DMC
11-26-2014, 10:03 PM
We're not going to agree on this. I believe this cop will be put on trial and we can discuss actual police procedure then, instead of all these hypotheticals.

Happy Thanksgiving.
He won't be put on trial. He will be no billed by a grand jury. People will find reasons to break into stores and steal weaves and swisher sweets and malt liquor. The world will continue to turn.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well, and your family.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 10:04 PM
Easy for you to say with the benefit of hindisght and not being 12.
well then maybe you shouldn't give an unsupervised 12 year old a toy gun

Clipper Nation
11-26-2014, 10:13 PM
I'm not sure what fundamental tenet of Liberalism "Kids should not be at risk of being immediately shot for playing with toys in a park" falls under, but I know advocating unchecked authoritarianism sure as hell isn't Libertarianism.
Self-defense = "unchecked authoritarianism"?

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 11:18 PM
Self-defense = "unchecked authoritarianism"?

No, a failure to hold authorities responsible for unnecessarily reckless and deadly behavior is unchecked authoritarianism.

You're so loyal to this authority that you can't bring yourself to admit that there are any number of ways this situation could have been handled differently and spared the kid.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 11:20 PM
well then maybe you shouldn't give an unsupervised 12 year old a toy gun

I agree, but what does that have to do with the boy's reaction, which is what we were talking about? If you want to talk about parental responsibility, you won't get much argument from me.

DMC
11-26-2014, 11:23 PM
I agree, but what does that have to do with the boy's reaction, which is what we were talking about? If you want to talk about parental responsibility, you won't get much argument from me.
Everyone cannot be at fault. The 12 year old is exonerated by default, and the cop was acting in self defense to a perceived threat. You can say situational awareness was compromised by faulty dispatch, but then you have to also indict the boy's guardians who allowed him to roam around with a mock up of a handgun at a rec center, pulling and pointing it at people. Easy to mistake that for a thug.

Spurminator
11-26-2014, 11:23 PM
I'll just leave this here. I'm sure it's completely unrelated because we're in a post-racial society.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/03/cops-tend-to-see-black-kids-as-less-innocent-than-white-kids/383247/#disqus_thread

Study: Cops Tend to See Black Kids as Less Innocent Than White Kids

"Our research found that black boys can be seen as responsible for their actions at an age when white boys still benefit from the assumption that children are essentially innocent."

Asked to identify the age of a young boy that committed a felony, participants in a study routinely overestimated the age of black children far more than they did white kids. Worse: Cops did it, too.

The study, published (http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf) in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, aimed at figuring out the extent to which black children were likely to be treated differently than their white peers solely based on race. More specifically, the authors wanted to figure out the extent to which black kids were dehumanized. "Children in most societies are considered to be in a distinct group with characteristics such as innocence and the need for protection," author Phillip Atiba Goff of UCLA told (http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/black-boys-older.aspx) the American Psychological Association. "Our research found that black boys can be seen as responsible for their actions at an age when white boys still benefit from the assumption that children are essentially innocent."

The researchers ran four different experiments aimed at gauging how people perceived criminal acts (both misdemeanors and felonies) depending on if the boy that committed it was black or white. Participants took a series of tests gauging racial attitudes and subtle associations. One test "primed" participants by flashing the names of either great cats, like lions, or apes. Two groups of people were interviewed, college-aged students and police officers. The group of police officers were evaluated on another metric: their on-the-job record of use of force against criminal suspects.
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/03/g1/34d69f2e7.png
We'll start with that last bit of data. The graph at right shows the number of use of force incidents by officers in the study (though a small majority of officers had never used force). "[T]he implicit dehumanization of Blacks," the study's authors write, "was a significant predictor of racial disparities in the use of force against children" — though they're clear to note that it is "plausible that negative interactions with Black children disproportionately produce implicit anti-Black dehumanization."

The correlation between dehumanization and use of force becomes more significant when you consider that black boys are routinely estimated to be older than they are. The two graphs show the age estimates for the college students, left, and police participants in the study.
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/03/ageguess/ab20f4abe.jpg
The general population respondents overestimated the boys' ages in felony situations by 4.53 years, meaning that "boys would be misperceived as legal adults at roughly the age of 13 and a half." The police had a slightly wider spread: 4.59 years. The college students were also less likely to judge black boys innocent in the presented scenarios once they were 10 years of age of older. At every age level after 10, black boys were considered less innocent than either white or unspecified children.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/03/g2/6c9aae775.png
Priming the officers with different associations produced different results in their age guesses. The researchers used the apes / great cats priming before running one set of experiments. When police officers were primed with either cats or apes, the graph at right resulted. When the officers were primed with names of apes, the officers were even more likely to overestimate the age of the black boys involved in the situation. But when the situation involved a white boy, the ape priming lowered the age estimate in the case of felonies.

The less the black kids were seen as human, the less they were granted "the assumption that children are essentially innocent." And those officers who were more likely to dehumanize black suspects overlapped with those who used more force against them.

In 2012, data from the Department of Education revealed (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/education/black-students-face-more-harsh-discipline-data-shows.html) that black students were far more likely than white students to face harsh discipline following infractions at school than student of other races. That sort of uneven system of discipline prompted the Obama administration (http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/01/ending-zero-policy-discipline/356812/) to call for zero-tolerance policies to be dropped. If this study is any guide — and it's only one study, of course — the tendency to give white kids the presumption of innocence and youth that isn't afforded to black students might be one of the reasons for that discrepancy.

spurraider21
11-26-2014, 11:23 PM
I agree, but what does that have to do with the boy's reaction, which is what we were talking about? If you want to talk about parental responsibility, you won't get much argument from me.
i thought we were talking about ways in which this tragedy could have been avoided.

1) kid shouldn't be parading around a public park with what appears to be a gun
2) kid shouldn't draw the weapon when the police arrive
3) police should have been advised that the weapon was probably fake before they arrived (although even if they thought it might be fake, it looked real, and if the kid quickly drew it, he could still be in danger)

Spurs9
11-27-2014, 12:52 AM
The kid could have had a rocket launcher pointed at officers, and people would try to play the race card that he was "unfairly targeted because hes black :cry".

SupremeGuy
11-27-2014, 12:56 AM
Moral of the story: don't go around pointing your intentionally-altered-to-look-more-realistic gun at people or you will probably end up getting shot. Why do people have so many problems with common sense?

SupremeGuy
11-27-2014, 12:57 AM
The kid could have had a rocket launcher pointed at officers, and people would try to play the race card that he was "unfairly targeted because hes black :cry".He could charge at them with a rocket launcher and we'd get the same racist tears. Why couldn't the cops shoot his leg in the split second before the attacker could get to him? Aren't all cops professional marksmen? If not, they're not qualified to be a cop. :cry

hitmanyr2k
11-27-2014, 01:06 AM
These days it's almost like they have potential cops take an IQ test and the one with the lowest score gets the job. What kind of dumbass police officer puts his partner's life in danger by driving right up to the person suspected of having a gun? :lol What if the kid really was dangerous and had malicious intent? When you drive right up to him your partner is just sitting there in the passenger seat like a dumbass without any protection whatsoever and can get blasted through the window. The driver put his partner in a stupid situation where he had no time to assess anything being so close to the kid. Where do these officers get their training from, videogames?

Creepn
11-27-2014, 01:29 AM
Catch phrases might sound cool to you but they don't gain any traction in decent conversations. Cops draw their guns to shoot. Cops with drawn guns are cops who will shoot if you draw a gun on them. Why will they shoot? What should they wait for before shooting, gunfire from the suspect?


Yeah that's fine and dandy except that it's supposed to be a last resort. Not the case here. Don't give me that "ooh why take that chance?" because I've seen cops successfully disarm a suspect verbally many times. A lot of those situations lasted over 10 minutes too.

midnightpulp
11-27-2014, 01:38 AM
there are absolutely cases of excess force, cops being too trigger happy, or just over-reaching their rights. they probably do get away more often than they should when they do commit a wrong

my beef with all this is, people pretend to care about the overarching issue, but they only show their care when there's a racial angle they can play. they also refuse to accept the possibility than the cop's action might have been justified in a particular case

i think its crazy by now that there aren't more videos... where was officer wilson's camera? or at least something to pick up an audio recording. but even this isn't foolproof. the dillon taylor case was all caught on camera and he still got off the hook. THAT is the most maddening case of it all, but nobody here even pretends to give a shit about it, because they can't play the "racial victim" or "oppression" angle

This. This incident wouldn't even be a blip on Trill's "social justice" radar if the victim was named Joey Smith and he had blond hair and blue eyes.

The Reckoning
11-27-2014, 07:54 AM
it is funny how our military can't engage without being fired at first but our police can shoot first

Trill Clinton
11-27-2014, 09:29 AM
:crytrill doesn't care about the little spencer and becky's of the world:cry

Trill Clinton
11-27-2014, 09:35 AM
unlike you soulless, demonic, pieces of shit, i care about innocent children of all races who are victims of violence and abuse. i have made several threads covering white, black, latino and asian children who died or were victims of abuse or neglect at the hands of an demonic adult.

lefty
11-27-2014, 09:49 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3bbrPLIcAElhyG.jpg

Koolaid_Man
11-27-2014, 10:03 AM
unlike you soulless, demonic, pieces of shit, i care about innocent children of all races who are victims of violence and abuse. i have made several threads covering white, black, latino and asian children who died or were victims of abuse or neglect at the hands of an demonic adult.

:tu Amen brother....of course we care...but the point in all this is to say that we're focused on the minority that get preyed upon by white devils :cooldeviland cops :cop....white kids don't get mistaken for 20 yr old adults because they aren't demonized as such...here's a good example of this attitude by the uncle Tom's of the world who perpetuate the negative views and think like the morally bankrupt white people who think like this...

-lcLJpRnC0k

Koolaid_Man
11-27-2014, 10:05 AM
EsbZ2C9bH1k

benefactor
11-27-2014, 10:45 AM
Does it even matter to anyone that this is Cleveland?:lol They are consistently one of the top ten most violent cities in the US. I can't imagine anyone who would want to be a cop in that shithole...and I sure as hell am not going to blame a cop for protecting himself with deadly force in a place like that.

:cry give the kid more time to put the gun down :cry...:lol...where the fuck do you live? This isn't rural fucking America where little Tommy can go around waving a fake gun and no one care. It's a violent, crime ridden, drug ridden shit stain of a city where cops have to make snap decisions or they die. Kids in these cities are not regular kids...they learn to be violent from a young age because that's all they've grown up in. The real sad thing is there is no good solution to fix it because no one really cares. They'd rather sit back and point fingers instead of looking at the real, underlying problem. Cities like Cleveland, Detroit, Memphis, etc. are what they are and no one seems intent on finding a way to change that. There's a deep rooted environmental issue...one that cops have to deal with in a certain way for their own protection. These white tree hugging faggots/victim card blacks can get online and cry all they want about the injustices these police are committing but they couldn't walk a fucking day in their shoes working in one of those cities. They'd be dead or get the shit beat out of them in less than a week.

Bill Cosby
11-27-2014, 10:49 AM
it is funny

it's not.

http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/151784-bill-cosby-as-cliff-huxtable.jpg

Relevancy
11-27-2014, 11:45 AM
I stopped reading after the boy reaches for his toy gun after the officer told him to put his hands up.

Bill Cosby
11-27-2014, 12:55 PM
the boy reaches for the officer hands.



JL0MbxWD2iI

DMC
11-27-2014, 01:26 PM
Yeah that's fine and dandy except that it's supposed to be a last resort. Not the case here. Don't give me that "ooh why take that chance?" because I've seen cops successfully disarm a suspect verbally many times. A lot of those situations lasted over 10 minutes too.

What other resorts are there when someone is pulling a gun on you? Scream louder? Run? Cry? Shoot into the sky? Freeze time? The mistrust between black youth and cops is fueled in part by the bias people like you put onto every confrontation, painting all cops as racist trigger happy militants. So I hope you feel good about being part of the reason a 12 year old decided pulling out a fake gun against a real one was a good idea. Fuck da police, right?

jag
11-27-2014, 01:29 PM
Trill Clinton has become one of the worst posters on this forum. It's sad because he used to be a cool dude.

He's completely gone off the deep end.

DMC
11-27-2014, 01:36 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3bbrPLIcAElhyG.jpg

also... "don't wave your fake gun around and point it at people while you pretend to be a thug"

Koolaid_Man
11-27-2014, 01:37 PM
Trill Clinton has become one of the worst posters on this forum. It's sad because he used to be a cool dude.

He's completely gone off the deep end.

:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry Trill doesn't agree with me :cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry

lefty
11-27-2014, 01:53 PM
also... "don't wave your fake gun around and point it at people while you pretend to be a thug"
:lol scared pussy dumb white cop who can't tell a real gun from a fake one
:lol afraid of 12 year old kids with plastic toys

hitmanyr2k
11-27-2014, 01:57 PM
What other resorts are there when someone is pulling a gun on you? Scream louder? Run? Cry? Shoot into the sky? Freeze time? The mistrust between black youth and cops is fueled in part by the bias people like you put onto every confrontation, painting all cops as racist trigger happy militants. So I hope you feel good about being part of the reason a 12 year old decided pulling out a fake gun against a real one was a good idea. Fuck da police, right?

In this case yeah I say fuck da police because these two were imbeciles. How about not rolling up on the kid like that in the first place stupidly putting yourself in danger? I don't know who trained these dumbass cops but if they're so petrified of black youth maybe they shouldn't be putting themselves in situations by rolling up on a person suspected of having a gun and then having to jump out of the car in a split second and make a decision of whether to shoot or not. Like I said before, the driver put his partner in harm's way. If the kid did have an intent to shoot he could have just started blasting the cop in the passenger seat as soon as they drove up so close to him. If every cop were making these same idiotic mistakes there would be many more people getting shot. The kid wasn't even doing anything that justified them rolling up like that. I could see if he were waving his gun around and threatening someone at that very moment but he wasn't. They had time for better options.

DMC
11-27-2014, 02:05 PM
In this case yeah I say fuck da police because these two were imbeciles. How about not rolling up on the kid like that in the first place stupidly putting yourself in danger? I don't know who trained these dumbass cops but if they're so petrified of black youth maybe they shouldn't be putting themselves in situations by rolling up on a person suspected of having a gun and then having to jump out of the car in a split second and make a decision of whether to shoot or not. Like I said before, the driver put his partner in harm's way. If the kid did have an intent to shoot he could have just started blasting the cop in the passenger seat as soon as they drove up so close to him. If every cop were making these same idiotic mistakes there would be many more people getting shot. The kid wasn't even doing anything that justified them rolling up like that. I could see if he were waving his gun around and threatening someone at that very moment but he wasn't. They had time for better options.

Obviously the civilian who called was also "petrified by black youth". Black man with gun waving it around... sounds like a job for the cops. Why didn't the caller confront him, just a kid with a toy gun, right?

You too have the convenience of hindsight. You're not in a cruiser responding to "black man waving and pointing handgun near rec center"... You get a slew of articles and discovery facts that the first responders don't get. Hell, you and a few others here jump to snap judgments when the facts are available, and you criticize as if you're level headed.

DMC
11-27-2014, 02:06 PM
:lol scared pussy dumb white cop who can't tell a real gun from a fake one
:lol afraid of 12 year old kids with plastic toys

Airsoft guns are replicas. Most people can't tell them apart without closer examination.

hitmanyr2k
11-27-2014, 02:22 PM
Obviously the civilian who called was also "petrified by black youth". Black man with gun waving it around... sounds like a job for the cops. Why didn't the caller confront him, just a kid with a toy gun, right?

You just answered your own question. It's not the civilian's job to go up and question the kid if he's waving a gun around at the moment. He's not trained or equipped to handle the situation if the kid is crazy so he called the cops. Duh :lol


You too have the convenience of hindsight. You're not in a cruiser responding to "black man waving and pointing handgun near rec center"... You get a slew of articles and discovery facts that the first responders don't get. Hell, you and a few others here jump to snap judgments when the facts are available, and you criticize as if you're level headed.

I have the convenience of common sense. And if I'm responding to a call of someone waving a gun around I'm not going to just roll up on him in a haphazard manner and hope for the best. And if my partner makes that dumbass suggestion with me in the passenger seat facing the supposed gunman I'm going to tell him to find another way where I have some fuckin cover in case the kid comes up blasting. These cops were idiots, bottom line.

Relevancy
11-27-2014, 02:37 PM
Plus the kid was out there pointing the gun at people, who the hell does that in public? Based on his decision making he was probably gonna get into some deep shit in the future that would have resulted in a similar outcome.

Koolaid_Man
11-27-2014, 02:50 PM
Plus the kid was out there pointing the gun at people, who the hell does that in public? Based on his decision making he was probably gonna get into some deep shit in the future that would have resulted in a similar outcome.

it is indeed a tragedy but like most kids maybe he was playing cops and robbers with himself...or reenacting shooting at criminals from his video games....the fact that the cops literally shot him within 1.2-2 seconds of stopping their car means they overreacted...almost all kids play with guns and point them at people....I did it too as I'm sure most of us did....Cops always have bad data when in a black neighborhood....you don't mistake a 11-12 yr old with a 20 yr old...

lefty
11-27-2014, 02:53 PM
Airsoft guns are replicas. Most people can't tell them apart without closer examination.
A trained cop should know tbh

The Reckoning
11-27-2014, 03:35 PM
lol idiots thought they could shut down I-35 :lol

spurraider21
11-27-2014, 05:15 PM
JL0MbxWD2iI
Sup mouse :lol

DMC
11-27-2014, 05:48 PM
You just answered your own question. It's not the civilian's job to go up and question the kid if he's waving a gun around at the moment. He's not trained or equipped to handle the situation if the kid is crazy so he called the cops. Duh :lol


But it was a toy gun. If you're concerned about a toy gun, why not go ask the 12 year old to stop pointing toy guns at people?


I have the convenience of common sense. And if I'm responding to a call of someone waving a gun around I'm not going to just roll up on him in a haphazard manner and hope for the best. And if my partner makes that dumbass suggestion with me in the passenger seat facing the supposed gunman I'm going to tell him to find another way where I have some fuckin cover in case the kid comes up blasting. These cops were idiots, bottom line.
But it was a toy gun, so what's the problem with being that close?

DMC
11-27-2014, 05:50 PM
A trained cop should know tbh

The guns are made to fool the eye, thus their reputation for being replicas, not toys. If it had the orange tip on it, that would have been a "dead" giveaway.

DMC
11-27-2014, 06:02 PM
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7512/001pm1.jpg


Airsoft vs real... without orange tip would be impossible to tell from any distance in just a few seconds.

lefty
11-27-2014, 06:13 PM
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7512/001pm1.jpg


Airsoft vs real... without orange tip would be impossible to tell from any distance in just a few seconds.

Yeah close enough tbh

hitmanyr2k
11-27-2014, 07:03 PM
But it was a toy gun. If you're concerned about a toy gun, why not go ask the 12 year old to stop pointing toy guns at people?

The guy who called in said it's probably a fake but he couldn't be sure.


But it was a toy gun, so what's the problem with being that close?

The 911 dispatcher didn't relay the information that it could possibly be a fake gun to the cops so they went in thinking it was a real gun.

Spurs9
11-27-2014, 07:28 PM
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7512/001pm1.jpg


Airsoft vs real... without orange tip would be impossible to tell from any distance in just a few seconds.
That looks exactly the same to me without the orange tip. Didn't the kids gun not even have a orange tip on it?

DMC
11-27-2014, 07:43 PM
The guy who called in said it's probably a fake but he couldn't be sure.

So why didn't he go ask the 12 year old kid if the gun was a fake?


The 911 dispatcher didn't relay the information that it could possibly be a fake gun to the cops so they went in thinking it was a real gun.
All guns could possibly be fake if they haven't been seen to be otherwise. Pretty sure that people who have to routinely put themselves in front of gun wielding people think all guns are real unless proven otherwise. I treat all guns as loaded even if they aren't, that doesn't mean all guns are loaded. What if the gun was real and not loaded, or what if it was real and loaded but the kid wouldn't shoot, or what if the gun was real, loaded and the kid would shoot? How would any of that change the response of the officers who don't have any of that information? Why respond to a kid with a toy gun in the first place?

The answers you use "it was just a toy" don't jive with the "park further away" approach. It's either to be treated as threat or it's not to be treated as a threat.

hitmanyr2k
11-27-2014, 10:10 PM
So why didn't he go ask the 12 year old kid if the gun was a fake?

Do you have a comprehension problem? The answer is because he doesn't have to. Let me spell it out for you. The caller thinks the gun may be fake but he doesn't know for sure and he has no obligation to go over and potentially put himself in harm's way to ask the kid if it's a real gun. Christ, how can you not grasp that? :lol And the caller has nothing to do with the stupidity shown by the police anyway.


All guns could possibly be fake if they haven't been seen to be otherwise. Pretty sure that people who have to routinely put themselves in front of gun wielding people think all guns are real unless proven otherwise. I treat all guns as loaded even if they aren't, that doesn't mean all guns are loaded. What if the gun was real and not loaded, or what if it was real and loaded but the kid weouldn't shoot, or what if the gun was real, loaded and the kid would shoot? How would any of that change the response of the officers who don't have any of that information? Why respond to a kid with a toy gun in the first place?

The answers you use "it was just a toy" don't jive with the "park further away" approach. It's either to be treated as threat or it's not to be treated as a threat.

I don't know what the hell you're rambling about :lol All of this "what if" crap you just typed still doesn't excuse how the police approached the kid. There was nothing cautious about the way they did it and it ended in one of the officers being put in a position where he had to make a split second reaction to shoot a kid when it could have been avoided.

Chinook
11-28-2014, 12:11 AM
The fundamental issue here is why are blacks to stupid too realize that they're in the face of an authoritative figure and that they need to comply?

This is such a huge issue, it's not even funny. It's absurd how many people throw their lives away just to conform to some idea of pride. Can't understand it myself. Clearly, black leaders know they can use the media to incite outrage over perceived injustice. Surely, it makes sense to urge more people to film police and post things to Twitter and Vine than it does to march and protest and shit.


Trayvon Martin.

Eh, he doesn't belong with the rest. Zimmerman was just some chode with a gun. Martin had no reason to comply with him. He threw his life away by escalating the conflict instead of continuing to leave, but that's not the same thing as assaulting a police officer.

Malik Hairston
11-28-2014, 01:37 AM
Ya, I don't know why the Trayvon Martin case is included with the rest..a community watch, fake cop, wannabe tough guy is supposed to be an authority figure?:lol..

Bigzax
11-28-2014, 02:21 AM
Now you go take this gun....go wave it around at the park...you have fun, and ill see you for suppa!

DMC
11-28-2014, 02:58 AM
Do you have a comprehension problem? The answer is because he doesn't have to. Let me spell it out for you. The caller thinks the gun may be fake but he doesn't know for sure and he has no obligation to go over and potentially put himself in harm's way to ask the kid if it's a real gun. Christ, how can you not grasp that? :lol And the caller has nothing to do with the stupidity shown by the police anyway.

You've illustrated that you understand the difference between knowing a person has a toy gun and not knowing a person has a toy gun, that it's in our best interest to act as if the gun isn't a toy until we know that it is. In fact, the only reason you know it was a toy is because you were told, after the fact, that it was a toy. Until the cops pulled it from his hand, where ever, the gun was, for all intents and purposes a real one. So then it wasn't just a 12 year old with a toy gun who was gunned down by racist cops with a burning desire to shoot someone.

Potentially putting yourself in harms way is what police officers do, and as such they have to treat a potential situation like a potential situation. When you see a gun being drawn, you have to react quickly else you could potentially die. I wouldn't want a partner who waited to see if the gun was real before responding.


I don't know what the hell you're rambling about :lol All of this "what if" crap you just typed still doesn't excuse how the police approached the kid. There was nothing cautious about the way they did it and it ended in one of the officers being put in a position where he had to make a split second reaction to shoot a kid when it could have been avoided.
Why does it matter how they approached the kid? If you're saying the kid was potentially dangerous, then they did not overreact. If you're saying the kid wasn't dangerous, then they didn't pull too close. They obviously didn't see a gun, just a person standing there. They pull up and the kid pulls the gun. Simple as that. If it goes before a grand jury, you'll see (again) how simple it was. George Zimmerman, Officer Wilson and now this cop, all acted within reason, all could have avoided the situation but didn't. It's amazing how half-cocked a bunch of you go off on these things with your front porch opinions with nary an ounce of understanding of police procedures or law, just hindsight. You're always proven wrong, and you guys feel offended by it.

Now do the :lol bullet point response defense. I dare you.

DMC
11-28-2014, 03:02 AM
That looks exactly the same to me without the orange tip. Didn't the kids gun not even have a orange tip on it?
It didn't have an orange tip, for a reason. There's nothing cool about carrying around a gun that's obviously not real.

exstatic
11-28-2014, 08:08 AM
I gotta say, at least this kid got a few seconds to react before he was put down. The other incident that happened a couple of months back when cops shot a man holding a bb gun inside Walmart (he'd picked it up from the store itself) didn't get any warning before he became target practice for the cops. And no, they didn't get indicted either:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/24/walmart_bb_gun_no_indictment_john_crawford_shooter s_will_not_be_charged.html

So I don't know what y'all are whining about. Cops are always right, accept it and move on.

The irony is that Ohio is an OPEN CARRY state. They're both entitled to have REAL weapons and carry them openly, except apparently because they're black.

exstatic
11-28-2014, 08:25 AM
The fundamental issue here is why are blacks to stupid too realize that they're in the face of an authoritative figure and that they need to comply?


The fundamental issue is that only black people are treated like that. Give me a shout the next time they even shoot some white person WITH justification (Cliven Bundy, I'm talking to you) let alone with 2 seconds notice and a fake gun.

lefty
11-28-2014, 11:05 AM
The irony is that Ohio is an OPEN CARRY state. They're both entitled to have REAL weapons and carry them openly, except apparently because they're black.
Which makes that cop a murderer

DMC
11-28-2014, 11:27 AM
The irony is that Ohio is an OPEN CARRY state. They're both entitled to have REAL weapons and carry them openly, except apparently because they're black.

Not open carry for minors and having a gun in your waistband isn't "open carry". You still have to have a license to conceal. Regardless, cops often respond to handgun reports, open carry or not, because open carry is uncommon in heavily populated areas.

MultiTroll
11-28-2014, 12:10 PM
Not open carry for minors and having a gun in your waistband isn't "open carry". You still have to have a license to conceal. Regardless, cops often respond to handgun reports, open carry or not, because open carry is uncommon in heavily populated areas.
Exactly.
If it would have been a real gun and thug wanna be killed someone, there would be all kinds of bitching about how the cops didn't act fast enough.

Chomag
11-28-2014, 01:13 PM
Exactly.
If it would have been a real gun and thug wanna be killed someone, there would be all kinds of bitching about how the cops didn't act fast enough.
Pretty much this. You just cant win. Damned if you do damned if you dont.

Creepn
11-28-2014, 11:21 PM
What other resorts are there when someone is pulling a gun on you? Scream louder? Run? Cry? Shoot into the sky? Freeze time? The mistrust between black youth and cops is fueled in part by the bias people like you put onto every confrontation, painting all cops as racist trigger happy militants. So I hope you feel good about being part of the reason a 12 year old decided pulling out a fake gun against a real one was a good idea. Fuck da police, right?

First of all, I didn't see the kid pull out a gun at them. And yes, some of the resorts you posted are very good resorts. I seen cops shoot the sky to scare the perp and some scream loud multiple times to get them to comply. Of course the perps were white but nonetheless, I seen't it! Killing someone is a LAST resort. Did you see cops use the gun as a last resort? Nah, they were trigger happy. No doubt about it. What if the kid was deaf? What if he had some mental propblem? If these scared white pussy cops are too chicken shit to go through the proper protocols to de-escalate the situation, then they need to apply for another job.

I'm still laughing at how you are blaming black people for distrust in the police. It's OBVIOUS racial bias plays a huge role in how blacks are dealt with and you are the problem by enabling these type of sitautions. No wonder you are athiest, the shit you type is pretty damn evil and you know it lol.

MultiTroll
11-29-2014, 07:58 AM
First of all, I didn't see the kid pull out a gun at them. What if he had some mental propblem? If these scared white pussy cops are too chicken shit to go through the proper protocols to de-escalate the situation, then they need to apply for another job.
http://www.imsogangsta.org/gangsta/1208/-gangsta-1344037517.jpg

What exactly were the protocols Knowz it All?
Roll up on a kid in a public park flashing a gun and acting thug wanna be.

Koolaid_Man
11-29-2014, 08:38 AM
First of all, I didn't see the kid pull out a gun at them. And yes, some of the resorts you posted are very good resorts. I seen cops shoot the sky to scare the perp and some scream loud multiple times to get them to comply. Of course the perps were white but nonetheless, I seen't it! Killing someone is a LAST resort. Did you see cops use the gun as a last resort? Nah, they were trigger happy. No doubt about it. What if the kid was deaf? What if he had some mental propblem? If these scared white pussy cops are too chicken shit to go through the proper protocols to de-escalate the situation, then they need to apply for another job.

I'm still laughing at how you are blaming black people for distrust in the police. It's OBVIOUS racial bias plays a huge role in how blacks are dealt with and you are the problem by enabling these type of sitautions. No wonder you are athiest, the shit you type is pretty damn evil and you know it lol.

^ this...DMC has a got a bad heart and he's well aware....but don't worry karma always finds a way to catch up to people like him

TheSanityAnnex
11-29-2014, 11:31 AM
The irony is that Ohio is an OPEN CARRY state. They're both entitled to have REAL weapons and carry them openly, except apparently because they're black.
A 12 year old can not open carry. Smh.
A gun tucked inside a waistband is not open carry. Smh.