Kobe Bryant..

[Malik Hairston]

In all honesty, while he's just a slightly above average player as a whole, his performance last night was one of the best I have ever seen in a regular season game, tbh..

All hate aside, that was beautiful offensive basketball from the ol' snitch, he really owns the Raptors more than any other player:lol..

30-10-10

[Thread]

In all honesty, while he's just a slightly above average player as a whole, his performance last night was one of the best I have ever seen in a regular season game, tbh..

All hate aside, that was beautiful offensive basketball from the ol' snitch, he really owns the Raptors more than any other player:lol..

30-10-10

You got no room. Your Rodman snitched on Robinson in the middle of the gd playoffs.

[midnightpulp]

In all honesty, while he's just a slightly above average player as a whole, his performance last night was one of the best I have ever seen in a regular season game, tbh..

All hate aside, that was beautiful offensive basketball from the ol' snitch, he really owns the Raptors more than any other player:lol..

30-10-10

Agreed.

It's always neat when an average to slightly above average player has a great game out of nowhere. Like when a Larry Hughes or a Ricky Davis goes off and you just sit there dumbfounded and impressed.

[Malik Hairston]

Agreed.

It's always neat when an average to slightly above average player has a great game out of nowhere. Like when a Larry Hughes or a Ricky Davis goes off and you just sit there dumbfounded and impressed.

:lol..

[Thread]

Agreed.

It's always neat when an average to slightly above average player has a great game out of nowhere. Like when a Larry Hughes or a Ricky Davis goes off and you just sit there dumbfounded and impressed.

This shit breaks my heart, Midst.

[Jodelo]

Agreed.

It's always neat when an average to slightly above average player has a great game out of nowhere. Like when a Larry Hughes or a Ricky Davis goes off and you just sit there dumbfounded and impressed.

:rollin

[midnightpulp]

This shit breaks my heart, Midst.

Why?

You don't credit Duncan for a damn thing, posting that horse picture. Why should I praise Bryant?

[Thread]

Why?

You don't credit Duncan for a damn thing, posting that horse picture. Why should I praise Bryant?

That's a lie. I've credited Duncan many times.

[midnightpulp]

That's a lie. I've credited Duncan many times.

He had a fine game, Cub.

[Thread]

^And just because Diaw stepped up doesn't mean shit. You still won.

[midnightpulp]

^And just because Diaw stepped up doesn't mean shit. You still won.

Everyone stepped up. It was a fantastic display of team ball. No one player really played that much better than another.

[AchillesHeel]

All jokes aside, everyone was saying how Kirby was done as far as being able to play competitive basketball after he tore his achilles, even worse when he broke his knee. While this year will mean nothing in the long run, you have to give him some credit for being able to chuck as much as he has after all the years. Dude's still out there playing 40+ minutes and though their record sucks, they've been playing competitive basketball since that Golden State game. 31/11/12 for a player in his 19th NBA season against the best team in the EC is nothing to scoff at.

Luckily for all the haters, Wesley Johnson gets the 2nd most minutes behind Kirby on that team :lol, nigga has no one else to blame but himself for choosing dollars over winning, though...

[Thread]

All jokes aside, everyone was saying how Kirby was done as far as being able to play competitive basketball after he tore his achilles, even worse when he broke his knee. While this year will mean nothing in the long run, you have to give him some credit for being able to chuck as much as he has after all the years. Dude's still out there playing 40+ minutes and though their record sucks, they've been playing competitive basketball since that Golden State game. 31/11/12 for a player in his 19th NBA season against the best team in the EC is nothing to scoff at.

Luckily for all the haters, Wesley Johnson gets the 2nd most minutes behind Kirby on that team :lol, nigga has no one else to blame but himself for choosing dollars over winning, though...

...and you would have signed whom if Kobe had taken just the 12 that Duncan took? That would have left 11 million extra. Go ahead, chop/chop.

[Franklin]

could've signed Ariza back, imho.

[Thread]

could've signed Ariza back, imho.

He's some of that same august company on the FG %.

[DPG21920]

...and you would have signed whom if Kobe had taken just the 12 that Duncan took? That would have left 11 million extra. Go ahead, chop/chop.

You are the whiniest, can dish it but not take it a-hole I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. Honestly.

[Thread]

You are the whiniest, can dish it but not take it a-hole I have ever had the displeasure of meeting. Honestly.

That's 500 smackers talkin'.

[DPG21920]

You're miserable since the welsh. I warned you.

[LkrFan]

Why?

You don't credit Duncan for a damn thing, posting that horse picture. Why should I praise Bryant?You gotta admit, this shit IS funny:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4fNFg8I/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z8YoqKzbPxE/s320/Els20Aug05.jpg

:lmao

[DPG21920]

You gotta admit, this shit IS funny:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4fNFg8I/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z8YoqKzbPxE/s320/Els20Aug05.jpg

:lmao

Lkrfan!

[Thread]

You're miserable since the welsh. I warned you.

That's 500 Somalians talkin'.

[LkrFan]

Lkrfan!

Sup DPG? :)

[DPG21920]

Sup DPG? :)

Just want you to know I'm here for you.

[LkrFan]

Just want you to know I'm here for you.
For what? I'm good son. :)

[elmanutres]

You gotta admit, this shit IS funny:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4fNFg8I/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z8YoqKzbPxE/s320/Els20Aug05.jpg

:lmao

poor big diesel. had to retire cause his back couldn't take it. :cry

[scanry]

Just want you to know I'm here for you.

:lol

[baseline bum]

You gotta admit, this shit IS funny:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4fNFg8I/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z8YoqKzbPxE/s320/Els20Aug05.jpg

:lmao

Poor Gasol. No wonder he had nothing left in 2011.

[Thread]

You gotta admit, this shit IS funny:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4fNFg8I/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z8YoqKzbPxE/s320/Els20Aug05.jpg

:lmao

I still got it!!!

[baseline bum]

I still got it!!!

Poor 2011 MVPau having to carry #24.

Now he's doing much better with that weight lifted so that he can put up 19 and 11 without having a certain shitbag dragging him down

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/4/4552021_3afa37a641.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

The other team he owns so much aside from the Spurs

[midnightpulp]

The other team he owns so much aside from the Spurs

How'd Kobe's last against the Spurs go?

[Thread]

Poor 2011 MVPau having to carry #24.

Now he's doing much better with that weight lifted so that he can put up 19 and 11 without having a certain shitbag dragging him down

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/4/4552021_3afa37a641.jpg

Just got to get those 16 after the 82 and I'll kiss his Spanish ass.

[scanry]

Just got to get those 16 after the 82 and I'll kiss his Spanish ass.

He sure is making Noah expendable though. Gasol is severely underrated as a defender tbh.

[Thread]

He sure is making Noah expendable though. Gasol is severely underrated as a defender tbh.

C'mon ahead, Pau. Get those 16 ending in June.

Chop/chop.

[spurraider21]

C'mon ahead, Pau. Get those 16 ending in June.

Chop/chop.
If its Pau vs Duncan in the finals you lose either way, huh?

[Thebesteva]

Kobe is slightly above average now?

[scanry]

C'mon ahead, Pau. Get those 16 ending in June.

Chop/chop.

You have no reason to worry tbh. Rest assured, Pau & the Bulls ain't gonna ring anytime soon. Their offense is a big question mark.

[scanry]

If its Pau vs Duncan in the finals you lose either way, huh?

Nah, if Pau wins a playoff series, Dale no longer possesses the "can't win a playoff game without Kobe". On the other hand, his stickh will backfire as Kobe hasn't won a playoff series without Daddy & Pau. The heartburn with Dale these days. If only the Suns ring this decade, we might have a funeral at hand.

[Clipper Nation]

C'mon ahead, Pau. Get those 16 ending in June.

Chop/chop.

He already got those 16 twice, Dale. He carried Kirby to every last one of them, belly draggin' in the process.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SGy6jIXdDDw/RxNE4fNFg8I/AAAAAAAAAIg/Z8YoqKzbPxE/s320/Els20Aug05.jpg

[ElNono]

Kobe is slightly above average now?

now?

[Thebesteva]

now?

In reference to all time. This forum loses cred when you guys say stuff like that.

[ElNono]

In reference to all time. This forum loses cred when you guys say stuff like that.

this forum has cred?

:lol

[Thebesteva]

this forum has cred?

:lol

LOL this forum is like that scene or meme from the lion king. We're that dark area you're never supposed to go to.

If I posted this av and sig in any other forum on planet Earth I would be banned and reported to local authorities. :lol

[Malik Hairston]

Kobe is slightly above average now?

Right now, yes IMO..

All-time, he's obviously top 10 in history..

[Thebesteva]

Right now, yes IMO..

All-time, he's obviously top 10 in history..

Oh my bad,

right now he's a notch above Calvin Boothe in his prime.

Ugliest nigga in NBA history

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/olemiss1088/arton20876-240x240.jpg

You consider him top 10? Or u messing around?

[Malik Hairston]

Easily top 10, tbh..it's always funny hearing some people having him behind Jerry West or some other old-timer that couldn't dribble without looking at the ball:lol..

[Thread]

He already got those 16 twice, Dale.

Though he can't win a single playoff game without Kobe holding his hand.

[Thread]

If its Pau vs Duncan in the finals you lose either way, huh?

No way. Pau wins 16 thru June I'll be a happy camper.

[Thebesteva]

Easily top 10, tbh..it's always funny hearing some people having him behind Jerry West or some other old-timer that couldn't dribble without looking at the ball:lol..

:lol Thank you, finally someone here says it. Anytime I hear someone scoff at Kobe being top 10, I ask them what their list is, I have no problem with Duncan being ranked higher, in fact I rank him higher myself.

But when they start listing guys like Jerry West or even Larry Bird as number 5 but Kobe at 15, it makes me wonder if they are basing it on facts and accomplishments or emotions.

Yeah, Kobe was a ball hog, yes Kobe was a chucker. However, in a Phil Jackson system+a great big he produces championships. I guarantee you 95% of the league couldnt accomplish that.

Yes, Allen Iverson/McGrady/Carter would have won a ring with Shaq in those teams, but not 3 rings, not a threepeat, and none of those guys could win 1 ring with Gasol.

But I understand the hate, I hate Westbrook the way you guys hate Kobe.

[Clipper Nation]

Though he can't win a single playoff game without Kobe holding his hand.
Nuh uh. He held Kirby's hand, dragging him to it kicking & screaming.

[Thread]

Nuh uh. He held Kirby's hand, dragging him to it kicking & screaming.

:rolleyes

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe is slightly above average now?
Somewhere between John Crotty and Ryan Gomes on the all-time list, tbh.

[Thread]

^ :rolleyes

[scanry]

But I understand the hate, I hate Westbrook the way you guys hate Kobe.

Westbrook won over a lot of the haters. Dude went straight up alpha (and might have destroyed CP3's career in the process) in the playoffs.

[Killakobe81]

:lol Thank you, finally someone here says it. Anytime I hear someone scoff at Kobe being top 10, I ask them what their list is, I have no problem with Duncan being ranked higher, in fact I rank him higher myself.

But when they start listing guys like Jerry West or even Larry Bird as number 5 but Kobe at 15, it makes me wonder if they are basing it on facts and accomplishments or emotions.

Yeah, Kobe was a ball hog, yes Kobe was a chucker. However, in a Phil Jackson system+a great big he produces championships. I guarantee you 95% of the league couldnt accomplish that.

Yes, Allen Iverson/McGrady/Carter would have won a ring with Shaq in those teams, but not 3 rings, not a threepeat, and none of those guys could win 1 ring with Gasol.

But I understand the hate, I hate Westbrook the way you guys hate Kobe.

I agree. duncan is now higher. Kobe is higher than Bird. Kobe did/does chuck to much. Yes prime vince or AI could have won with Shaq (Dwade for example) but none of them would have won three or the two with Pau especially ... Right now most games he is playing a hideous style of ball his chucking getting worse as his team-mates and his game has got weaker. (last couple games excluded).

But the trollin about he is not better than Bonner is funny to me ... doesnt even make me mad or troll me but is just funny ...
But you can tell it was a slow NBA nighton Monday ...like 6 new Kobe threads came up and only 33% were from Kool

[ambchang]

:lol Thank you, finally someone here says it. Anytime I hear someone scoff at Kobe being top 10, I ask them what their list is, I have no problem with Duncan being ranked higher, in fact I rank him higher myself.

But when they start listing guys like Jerry West or even Larry Bird as number 5 but Kobe at 15, it makes me wonder if they are basing it on facts and accomplishments or emotions.

Yeah, Kobe was a ball hog, yes Kobe was a chucker. However, in a Phil Jackson system+a great big he produces championships. I guarantee you 95% of the league couldnt accomplish that.

Yes, Allen Iverson/McGrady/Carter would have won a ring with Shaq in those teams, but not 3 rings, not a threepeat, and none of those guys could win 1 ring with Gasol.

But I understand the hate, I hate Westbrook the way you guys hate Kobe.


I agree. duncan is now higher. Kobe is higher than Bird. Kobe did/does chuck to much. Yes prime vince or AI could have won with Shaq (Dwade for example) but none of them would have won three or the two with Pau especially ... Right now most games he is playing a hideous style of ball his chucking getting worse as his team-mates and his game has got weaker. (last couple games excluded).

But the trollin about he is not better than Bonner is funny to me ... doesnt even make me mad or troll me but is just funny ...
But you can tell it was a slow NBA nighton Monday ...like 6 new Kobe threads came up and only 33% were from Kool

How in the world is Kobe > Bird.

Bird was a three time MVP, and primary nemesis to Magic, he was the clear alpha on one of the best team in NBA history, he was an unparalleled passer, shooter, and competitor, and one of the best clutch players of all time.

Unless you want to say Kobe > Magic, there is just no case that Kobe > Bird, because Magic = Bird, and that would just be incredibly stupid.

Besides, Duncan was < Bird and Kobe last year, how in the world would a ring at an advanced age when he was no longer even close to prime ring winning days put him over the top? It makes no sense. The ONLY reasonable answer is that Duncan > Kobe and Bird all along.

But I am having trouble putting Duncan over Bird. To me, Duncan, Magic, and Bird are in the same tier. Kobe is two strungs below, belonging to the Dirk, Garnett group, after the Shaq, Hakeem, Moses group.

[Thread]

How in the world is Kobe > Bird.

5-3. That's how we started & we're gonna continue in that manner, all the way to the end.

[Brazil]

:lmao

since when Kobe > Bird ?

what the fuck...

[Killakobe81]

How in the world is Kobe > Bird.

Bird was a three time MVP, and primary nemesis to Magic, he was the clear alpha on one of the best team in NBA history, he was an unparalleled passer, shooter, and competitor, and one of the best clutch players of all time.

Unless you want to say Kobe > Magic, there is just no case that Kobe > Bird, because Magic = Bird, and that would just be incredibly stupid.

Besides, Duncan was < Bird and Kobe last year, how in the world would a ring at an advanced age when he was no longer even close to prime ring winning days put him over the top? It makes no sense. The ONLY reasonable answer is that Duncan > Kobe and Bird all along.

But I am having trouble putting Duncan over Bird. To me, Duncan, Magic, and Bird are in the same tier. Kobe is two strungs below, belonging to the Dirk, Garnett group, after the Shaq, Hakeem, Moses group.

Not going down this path ...except yes Duncan is better than Bird and Kobe. Magic is better than Bird too. A case can be made for Kobe over Magic but I am taking Magic. And I had Duncan over bird BEFORE last year for the record.

It's funny you favor bigs based on your groupings but duncan doesnt get the nod over Bird?

[ambchang]

Not going down this path ...except yes Duncan is better than Bird and Kobe. Magic is better than Bird too. A case can be made for Kobe over Magic but I am taking Magic. And I had Duncan over bird BEFORE last year for the record.

It's funny you favor bigs based on your groupings but duncan doesnt get the nod over Bird?

I have pretty much given up on strict rankings, and is looking more in strata. But even that is difficult because a case could be made to have Magic and Bird in the same group as Jabbar and Jordan, but there is also a case against it.

The only counter to Bird is longevity, but having a 13-year career, where he was dominant for 5 or 6 years and 3 or 4 years where he was clearly the best player in the league is a resume that is equaled or surpassed by a very small number of players.

Duncan can't claim that (overlap with Shaq), and Magic can't claim that (overlap with Jordan). The only reason they were in the same strata as Bird was because of Bird's back.

Bird's peak was as high as Shaq (but it was longer than Shaq's), Lebron (with better results), and Jordan (Jordan had better results and longer). There isn't another player who can claim as high a peak outside of those mentioned, or older timers (Wilt, Russell, Jabbar, maybe Oscar).

[Thread]

I have pretty much given up on strict rankings, and is looking more in strata.

I'll just bet you are.

[Killakobe81]

I have pretty much given up on strict rankings, and is looking more in strata. But even that is difficult because a case could be made to have Magic and Bird in the same group as Jabbar and Jordan, but there is also a case against it.

The only counter to Bird is longevity, but having a 13-year career, where he was dominant for 5 or 6 years and 3 or 4 years where he was clearly the best player in the league is a resume that is equaled or surpassed by a very small number of players.

Duncan can't claim that (overlap with Shaq), and Magic can't claim that (overlap with Jordan). The only reason they were in the same strata as Bird was because of Bird's back.

Bird's peak was as high as Shaq (but it was longer than Shaq's), Lebron (with better results), and Jordan (Jordan had better results and longer). There isn't another player who can claim as high a peak outside of those mentioned, or older timers (Wilt, Russell, Jabbar, maybe Oscar).

If we go by peaks than Hakeem can be moved up ... I think duncan's resume of sustained brilliance even if he dipped a bit after 2007 he came back strong these past two seasons that absolutely matters and so does the back to back finals. Duncan made an all NBA team (I think he did he certainly deserved it) long after Bird's career would have been done due to back injury. Duncan has been to finals 6 times winning 5. Bird has the MVP edge but that award is bullshit more so in Tim's era than Bird's... but still. Also I dont get how duncan doesnt have an edge on Shaq. bird was brilliant in his prime and was every bit as good or better than Magic during it. But rings and full career matters so Magic duncan and even Kobe are ahead of Bird tbh ...

Career length is only reason Kobe is in the Magic convo tbh .. if he doesnt get the last two it's not even close.

[Killakobe81]

Oh and Shaq is greater than Bird too but I think that is a bit closer argument because the last 3 or 4 shaq years were crappy.

[Buddy Mignon]

Oh and Shaq is greater than Bird too but I think that is a bit closer argument because the last 3 or 4 shaq years were crappy.


I disagree. Shaq is overrated. I can't call a player great that runs from the moment. He has the stats but he's no killer.

[ambchang]

If we go by peaks than Hakeem can be moved up ... I think duncan's resume of sustained brilliance even if he dipped a bit after 2007 he came back strong these past two seasons that absolutely matters and so does the back to back finals. Duncan made an all NBA team (I think he did he certainly deserved it) long after Bird's career would have been done due to back injury. Duncan has been to finals 6 times winning 5. Bird has the MVP edge but that award is bullshit more so in Tim's era than Bird's... but still. Also I dont get how duncan doesnt have an edge on Shaq. bird was brilliant in his prime and was every bit as good or better than Magic during it. But rings and full career matters so Magic duncan and even Kobe are ahead of Bird tbh ...

Career length is only reason Kobe is in the Magic convo tbh .. if he doesnt get the last two it's not even close.

If you go by career length, then players like Hondo or Malone would be high on the list, and yet they aren't.

Kobe and Hakeem had dips in their careers during their primes that cannot be ignored.

Duncan and Shaq is still a tough one for me. It depends on the time of the day you ask me, I would side with Duncan 80% of the time, but then the other 20% of the time, I am reminded of how ridiculously dominant Shaq was for a few years.

Bird was basketball Jesus for a good stretch, and was Jordan before Jordan in terms of dominance. People just forgot how ridiculously good he was during his prime. They saw him during his injured days, looked up the stats of those years vs. his prime years, and thought his prime was just a little bit better because of those stats, but it wasn't. Bird was much much better during his prime than during his injury years, despite the somewhat comparable stats (a few points, rebounds and assists off). Bird was Dominant with a capital D.

It's like Shaq's early Orlando years vs. his Laker years, the stats are similar, but Shaq was that much better as a Laker as he was a Magic.

[midnightpulp]

I disagree. Shaq is overrated. I can't call a player great that runs from the moment. He has the stats but he's no killer.

When did Shaq run from any moments?

He saw the sinking ship that was the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and left, promptly winning a title in '06.

[Killakobe81]

If you go by career length, then players like Hondo or Malone would be high on the list, and yet they aren't.

Kobe and Hakeem had dips in their careers during their primes that cannot be ignored.

Duncan and Shaq is still a tough one for me. It depends on the time of the day you ask me, I would side with Duncan 80% of the time, but then the other 20% of the time, I am reminded of how ridiculously dominant Shaq was for a few years.

Bird was basketball Jesus for a good stretch, and was Jordan before Jordan in terms of dominance. People just forgot how ridiculously good he was during his prime. They saw him during his injured days, looked up the stats of those years vs. his prime years, and thought his prime was just a little bit better because of those stats, but it wasn't. Bird was much much better during his prime than during his injury years, despite the somewhat comparable stats (a few points, rebounds and assists off). Bird was Dominant with a capital D.

It's like Shaq's early Orlando years vs. his Laker years, the stats are similar, but Shaq was that much better as a Laker as he was a Magic.

I dont really care about yours or even my rankings tbh, so I will just say this no I did not just say "length" because Malone did not ring. Stilla great player but rings matter always have, always will. Never saw Hondo so cant speak one way or the other. I realize West, NBaylor, Hondo russell etc were great players but I dont judge guys i never saw play in their prime and tbh I missed most of Kareem's. But I give him the benefit of the doubt because I saw him skyhook Walton, Moses etc. to death (though Moses kicked his ass in '83). Kareem was still having key final Performances late in his career. to say that Duncan's title in 2014 in which he was no longer dominant but still a crucial contributor doesnt help elevate him over Bird or even shaq/kobe is crazy. at Shaq's best of course he was "more dominant" (like the case you made for Bird) that doesnt mean he was the better overall player or had the better career. Magic had a better career than Bird just less dominant and same applies to Duncan/Shaq. If Lebron dies today he was more dominant than Kobe, Duncan and bird ...even Magic but career wise I'm taking Kobe/Duncan/Magic.

[ambchang]

I dont really care about yours or even my rankings tbh, so I will just say this no I did not just say "length" because Malone did not ring. Stilla great player but rings matter always have, always will. Never saw Hondo so cant speak one way or the other. I realize West, NBaylor, Hondo russell etc were great players but I dont judge guys i never saw play in their prime and tbh I missed most of Kareem's. But I give him the benefit of the doubt because I saw him skyhook Walton, Moses etc. to death (though Moses kicked his ass in '83). Kareem was still having key final Performances late in his career. to say that Duncan's title in 2014 in which he was no longer dominant but still a crucial contributor doesnt help elevate him over Bird or even shaq/kobe is crazy. at Shaq's best of course he was "more dominant" (like the case you made for Bird) that doesnt mean he was the better overall player or had the better career. Magic had a better career than Bird just less dominant and same applies to Duncan/Shaq. If Lebron dies today he was more dominant than Kobe, Duncan and bird ...even Magic but career wise I'm taking Kobe/Duncan/Magic.

We just have different criteria. Very different.

Lebron's dominance was amazing, but he had all these pockets of failure in there. 2011 vs. Mavs was a huge black mark, and his OK finals in 2013 didn't help matters. He was really truly dominant end to end in 2012. I am actually more impressed by his first Cavs stint by carrying that poo poo platter of a team by himself deep in the playoffs every year.

Walton and Moses were both very underrated, Walton had a great peak, but that was way too short. It's a shame injuries shortened his career, he would have been undoubtedly a top 10 player of all time, and possibly top 5 if he played another 5 or 6 years at his prime, but that Blazers curse is just too much to overcome.

As for Duncan's 2014 title, again, it's not really that huge of a finals performance. His 2013 finals performance was perhaps greater. And no, neither of them elevated Duncan over Kobe/Shaq, he was already above them before those two finals appearances.

As for Bird, I am not sure if it's your Boston hate, but I have a very tough time putting him out of the top 5 of all time. He was incredible.

[FkLA]

How in the world is Kobe > Bird.

Bird was a three time MVP, and primary nemesis to Magic, he was the clear alpha on one of the best team in NBA history, he was an unparalleled passer, shooter, and competitor, and one of the best clutch players of all time.

Unless you want to say Kobe > Magic, there is just no case that Kobe > Bird, because Magic = Bird, and that would just be incredibly stupid.

Besides, Duncan was < Bird and Kobe last year, how in the world would a ring at an advanced age when he was no longer even close to prime ring winning days put him over the top? It makes no sense. The ONLY reasonable answer is that Duncan > Kobe and Bird all along.

But I am having trouble putting Duncan over Bird. To me, Duncan, Magic, and Bird are in the same tier. Kobe is two strungs below, belonging to the Dirk, Garnett group, after the Shaq, Hakeem, Moses group.

:tu

Kirby is closer 15 than he is to 10. I just don't see how a player who has been so poor at making teammates around him better can be placed in the Top 10. He's probably a Top 5 individual talent but that ain't all that it's about. His style is a losing style anywhere other than LA. Can you imagine building a small market team around his chucking? His whole career would've looked like this year. :lol

[Medvedenko]

:tu

Kirby is closer 15 than he is to 10. I just don't see how a player who has been so poor at making teammates around him better can be placed in the Top 10. He's probably a Top 5 individual talent but that ain't all that it's about. His style is a losing style anywhere other than LA. Can you imagine building a small market team around his chucking? His whole career would've looked like this year. :lol

Stay upstairs with your BS. How was Kobe's style when he ripped through your team during the early 2000's? Or his style when he went back to back again and 3 straight finals. Like I said, stay upstairs with your "takes"

[FkLA]

Stay upstairs with your BS. How was Kobe's style when he ripped through your team during the early 2000's? Or his style when he went back to back again and 3 straight finals. Like I said, stay upstairs with your "takes"

Is Kobe good at making teammates better? Has his style yielded any success when it is the main driving force behind a team? The Lakers team ripped through the league all those years, it wasn't all Kobe. I bet he doesnt rip through shit all those years if you put him in Cleveland or Toronto.

[midnightpulp]

Is Kobe good at making teammates better? Has his style yielded any success when it is the main driving force behind a team? The Lakers team ripped through the league all those years, it wasn't all Kobe. I bet he doesnt rip through shit all those years if you put him in Cleveland or Toronto.

The best stat we have to try and quantify that is RAPM, which wisely adjusts for a variety of variables outside a player's control (ex. which players he's on the floor with, pace, etc), and in fact, yes, Kobe does make his teammates better since they are usually worse off when he's out of the game.

That said, Kobe's RAPM does lack behind many other greats of his era. Oddly, Kobe has finished in the top 10 in regular season RAPM only twice in his career. A player like Tim Duncan has finished in the top 5 twelve times over his career and topped the list 3 times.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

I have some theories why Kobe lacks behind almost all the other top all stars of his era in RAPM, despite his impressive per game stats, and I think the first culprit is ball dominance. When a single player dominates the ball, the other players get out of rhythm offensively and their defense drops off. The second culprit is Kobe's shot selection. He loves 18-20 foot jumpers to a pathological degree. A miss from a long 2 is about the worst miss in basketball and ignites a fast break more effectively than other misses. I think this is a reason why Kobe has been a net negative defensively for over 10 seasons now.

Kobe does make his teammates better, but there is some truth to the idea that his individual brilliance as a scorer doesn't translate to optimal success for the team.

[Splits]

ANOTHER triple double::: 12pts, 13asts, 10TOs

GOAT

[Kobe Bean Bryant]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3vZJcICUAAqULy.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3vZJcICUAAqULy.jpg

:lmao :lmao wtf

[FkLA]

The best stat we have to try and quantify that is RAPM, which wisely adjusts for a variety of variables outside a player's control (ex. which players he's on the floor with, pace, etc), and in fact, yes, Kobe does make his teammates better since they are usually worse off when he's out of the game.

That said, Kobe's RAPM does lack behind many other greats of his era. Oddly, Kobe has finished in the top 10 in regular season RAPM only twice in his career. A player like Tim Duncan has finished in the top 5 twelve times over his career and topped the list 3 times.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

I have some theories why Kobe lacks behind almost all the other top all stars of his era in RAPM, despite his impressive per game stats, and I think the first culprit is ball dominance. When a single player dominates the ball, the other players get out of rhythm offensively and their defense drops off. The second culprit is Kobe's shot selection. He loves 18-20 foot jumpers to a pathological degree. A miss from a long 2 is about the worst miss in basketball and ignites a fast break more effectively than other misses. I think this is a reason why Kobe has been a net negative defensively for over 10 seasons now.

Kobe does make his teammates better, but there is some truth to the idea that his individual brilliance as a scorer doesn't translate to optimal success for the team.

Not surprised that he doesn't stack up to other greats. He's done nothing his entire career when teams relied on him heavily. I actually think he has the skillset to make others better, he's shown glimpses when he gets into his little Magic Kobe moods...too bad he's been more concerned with showing everyone how great he is individually throughout his career.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3vZJcICUAAqULy.jpg

:lol

[Stalin]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3vZJcICUAAqULy.jpg





:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Kobe 4-11 for 12 points, headline reads, I shit you not, "Bryan's big 3rd lifts Lakers by Pistons."

Most overrated, overhyped player in the history of basketball. Holy shit. He was 5th in scoring on the team and the Lakers won by 10. It's almost like they're better when he's not playing like a total imbecile.

[Thread]

Kobe 4-11 for 12 points, headline reads, I shit you not, "Bryan's big 3rd lifts Lakers by Pistons."

Most overrated, overhyped player in the history of basketball. Holy shit. He was 5th in scoring on the team and the Lakers won by 10. It's almost like they're better when he's not playing like a total imbecile.

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 5

[Cry Havoc]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 5

Ring smack again. For the guy chirping about the Spurs "dishonoring the system" by not taking the regular season seriously. :lol