NYPD chokedown of the fat black guy...

[CosmicCowboy]

saw the video last night.

Gotta say that unless the grand jury saw/heard evidence that we didn't see/know they got that one wrong.

IMHO PoPo overreacted with the 4 on 1 beatdown didn't need to use the choke hold like they did.

Was he cop a murderer? Not intentionally, I'm sure, but 2nd degree negligent manslaughter? I could see that possibility and this one should have gone to trial.

[boutons_deux]

chokehold is meant to ... CHOKE (crush the windpipe, stop breath) which is illegal for NYPD but was done. forearm or upper arm crushing the windpipe.

the approved alternative is to have the crotch of the elbow in front of the windpipe, no crushing, while upper arm and forearm crush the carotids, blood flow to brain stopped, causing the victim to black out (so the police can beat the shit out him without resistance, then file a report "resisting arrest")

[Blake]

Choke hold in this case was not illegal. It's just not department policy.

Sorry but I've got little sympathy for dumbfucks that resist arrest.

[DarrinS]

Over black market cigarettes. smh

[boutons_deux]

Rand Paul Explains How Taxes Murdered Eric Garner
http://wonkette.com/568214/rand-paul-explains-how-taxes-murdered-eric-garner#cVjXbPRlWYy5jClb.99

[DarrinS]

Rand Paul Explains How Taxes Murdered Eric Garner
http://wonkette.com/568214/rand-paul-explains-how-taxes-murdered-eric-garner#cVjXbPRlWYy5jClb.99




Selling black market cigarettes doesn't seem to justify a takedown like that. Would you agree? Why not write the mofo a ticket?

[boutons_deux]

Choke hold in this case was not illegal.

vid shows cop's forearm clearly on the guy's windpipe, which is the illegal chokehold.

Alternative action: let the perp give his dramatic speech, wave his arms, be patient, let the situation calm down.

HELL NO, jump the n!gg@ immediately!!

[Yonivore]

My initial response to watching the Garner video was, "wow, that was a bit harsh."

And, for those arguing he didn't deserve to die for the crime he was committing completely discount the use of force that became necessary to effect the arrest. If we don't want people arrested for stupid, petty crimes, we should not elect officials that enact stupid, petty crimes and then empower the police to arrest people that commit them. It's not the police officer's fault he was there enforcing the law, that was his job.

If he used a banned choke hold to subdue Mr. Garner, he should be held accountable for that. I wasn't privy to all the evidence presented to the Grand Jury but, they certainly saw the video and had access to the autopsy and the Department's rules on use of force. That they came to the conclusion he should not be indicted for a crime tells me we're not being told the entire story. I don't think the officer acted maliciously or that he intended to kill Mr. Garner.

Perhaps the mob should be demanding the Department discipline the officer for breaking policy. And, in any case, I think Mr. Garner's family certainly has cause to seek a wrongful death judgement in civil court.

[Yonivore]

Selling black market cigarettes doesn't seem to justify a takedown like that. Would you agree? Why not write the mofo a ticket?
Resisting arrest justifies the use of force necessary to effect the arrest.

Certain methods (such as choke holds) are barred by some agencies because they can result in exactly what happened.

And, nothing against Mr. Garner but, a healthier person probably would not have succumbed to the force used to arrest him. I believe the medical examiner said as much.

[Yonivore]

Well, here's an interesting factoid.

You'll notice at the 1:03 mark, an African American female police Sergeant enters the frame. That is Sergeant Kizzi Adoni and she was one of two senior officers present at the arrest of Eric Garner. Does that change my opinion over what happened? No. But, it does tend to support the position this was not a racially motivated act.

ajhpFT-lVZY

EXCLUSIVE: Police report in Eric Garner’s death conflicts with videos, witnesses (http://pix11.com/2014/07/31/exclusive-police-report-in-eric-garners-death-conflicts-with-videos-witnesses/)


Another female sergeant, Kizzy Adoni, made a similar statement in the report. She “believed she heard” Garner say he was having difficulty breathing. Adoni also said “The perpetrator’s condition did not seem serious and he did not appear to get worse.”

[cantthinkofanything]

Over black market cigarettes. smh

I know right? Would the same thing have happened over white market cigarettes?

[Yonivore]

I know right? Would the same thing have happened over white market cigarettes?
From watching the video, I'm not sure from where the allegation of selling cigarettes comes. But, again, all we have is the video.

[RandomGuy]

saw the video last night.

Gotta say that unless the grand jury saw/heard evidence that we didn't see/know they got that one wrong.

IMHO PoPo overreacted with the 4 on 1 beatdown didn't need to use the choke hold like they did.

Was he cop a murderer? Not intentionally, I'm sure, but 2nd degree negligent manslaughter? I could see that possibility and this one should have gone to trial.

After saying he couldn't breathe 11 times, that should have gotten him some medical attention at the very least, although such claims are common among criminals trying to put off going to jail.

[RandomGuy]

From watching the video, I'm not sure from where the allegation of selling cigarettes comes. But, again, all we have is the video.

No one started filming until the confrontation happened. The guy was cited for selling ciggys before and was known to the police for such, if memory serves.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Sorry but I've got little sympathy for dumbfucks that resist arrest.

Kind of where I'm at on this one, especially those who obviously are in no shape to resist.

[Yonivore]

After saying he couldn't breathe 11 times, that should have gotten him some medical attention at the very least, although such claims are common among criminals trying to put off going to jail.
I agree with the last part of your statement and feel compelled to point out the obvious; when someone is verbally claiming they can't breathe, they are, in fact, breathing. Watching the video, I'm not sure I would have immediately suspected he was in any serious distress.

[Yonivore]

No one started filming until the confrontation happened. The guy was cited for selling ciggys before and was known to the police for such, if memory serves.
I don't disagree but, there were also the witnesses who were saying he had just broken up a fight and that the officer allowed those guys to leave while they stayed behind and confronted Garner. It could be a case of him being a known offender and they suspected he was up to his old tricks but, there is nothing to suggest he was selling cigarettes. When he asked one officer who he saw him selling cigarettes, the officer looked over his shoulder kind of confused looking...

[RandomGuy]

I agree with the last part of your statement and feel compelled to point out the obvious; when someone is verbally claiming they can't breathe, they are, in fact, breathing. Watching the video, I'm not sure I would have immediately suspected he was in any serious distress.

Factually incorrect.

Breathing generally implies enough gas exchange to sustain life. Asthma stops that. You can be able to articulate "I can't breathe" and be in the process of pulmonary collapse that will kill you. It is entirely possible to tell that you are not getting enough air in your lungs for a short period of time before your brain starts dying.

A bit of personal experience, as well as what my kids pediatrician says about his. We are told to pay very close attention to such utterances.

[Yonivore]

Factually incorrect.Not a point over which I will quibble. If you're talking, you're inhaling and exhaling. You accurately point out that he may not be effectively exchanging gases in his lungs but, that's different than breathing. My point was merely to suggest the officers might not have been alerted to any crisis simply because he was claiming not to be able to breath. He sounded like a 300lb guy exerting himself and out of breath. That would be expected in this circumstance.

Personal experience: I spent 10 years as an EMT/Paramedic.

[boutons_deux]

"I can't breathe" obviously means "I have enough breath to speak, but I'm having difficulty breathing" (like my windpipe is restricted by an illegal chokehold, my chest is compressed by some fat cops)

Personal experience: one intelligent, well-informed, bitch-slapping, pragmatic sonofabitch.

[Blake]

vid shows cop's forearm clearly on the guy's windpipe, which is the illegal chokehold.

Alternative action: let the perp give his dramatic speech, wave his arms, be patient, let the situation calm down.

HELL NO, jump the n!gg@ immediately!!

I don't disagree that it was a bad move.

It's just not illegal for a cop to do that in NY in this case at this time.

[boutons_deux]

It's just not illegal for a cop to do that in NY in this case at this time.

chokehold is ILLEGAL for NYPD

[Blake]

chokehold is ILLEGAL for NYPD

Against department policy, yes. Against the law, no.

Illegal =/= protocol

Seems to be a lot of journalistic confusion about that.

[boutons_deux]

How The Supreme Court Helped Make It Possible For Police To Kill By Chokehold (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/04/3599605/how-the-supreme-court-helped-make-it-possible-for-police-to-kill-by-chokehold/)According to law professor and dean Erwin Chemerinsky’s book The Case Against the Supreme Court (http://books.google.com/books?id=GjVBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT161&lpg=PT161&dq=%22Adolph+Lyons%22+%26+%22african+american%22&source=bl&ots=8EdWDMy3SI&sig=ic3fJboiaHoNArUMjgbb0ggHb4I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EJSAVNiJKNSjyASFv4KIBw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22Adolph%20Lyons%22%20%26%20%22african%20americ an%22&f=false), Lyons discovered that sixteen people died after being choked by an LAPD officer, almost all of whom were black men.

When police Chief Daryl Gates was asked why almost all of these fatal chokeholds involved African Americans, Gates replied that the “veins or arteries of blacks do not open up as fast as they do in normal people.” :lol

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/12/04/3599605/how-the-supreme-court-helped-make-it-possible-for-police-to-kill-by-chokehold/

[boutons_deux]

chokehold is non-fatal, like tasers are non-fatal.

100s dead from each

[spurraider21]

chokehold is non-fatal, like tasers are non-fatal.

100s dead from each
you have a problem with using tasers too?

wtf are they supposed to do? ask nicely?

[ElNono]

you have a problem with using tasers too?

wtf are they supposed to do? ask nicely?

Baton, IMO... works for England (until 2004 anyways)...

[spurraider21]

if people were cooperative in the first place, ideally there would be no need for batons, tasers, or firearms in the first place. not saying that makes the killings ok (a lot of cops have been seen to be way to trigger happy), but they can largely be avoided ffs.

for example, if u get pulled over, dont get out of the car... keep your hands on the wheel.

when the cop is trying to arrest or detain you, what the fuck is pushing back going to accomplish?

if you are going to reach for something, don't. explain what you need to reach for.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTGTntifabI

like this is a really unfortunate case. thankfully the guy lived, and the cop was way to quick to fire away like that. but why would you just go into your car like that without saying a word? tell the cop "my license is in my car" and just dont move. doesnt make the cop right for shooting, but why do anything that could make it worse?

[Trill Clinton]

y'all gotta chill with the victim blaming. its easy to say what a victim should have done when you aren't in their shoes.

how about the cop staying in his vehicle and tell the guy to get back in his truck and keep his hands where he can see them? that simple direction would have made a simple traffic stop that much easier, word.

[Spurminator]

like this is a really unfortunate case. thankfully the guy lived, and the cop was way to quick to fire away like that. but why would you just go into your car like that without saying a word? tell the cop "my license is in my car" and just dont move. doesnt make the cop right for shooting, but why do anything that could make it worse?

The idea that people are risking their lives if they do not show complete forethought of every possible overreaction scenario while they're already under the stress of having been pulled over and yelled at by the police is kind of scary, don't you think?

If we aren't going to hold a trained, experienced police officers responsible for not considering every possible NON-threatening reason a suspect might be acting a certain way, why should suspects/citizens be required to be 100% perfect in how THEY react in these situations?

[spurraider21]

The idea that people are risking their lives if they do not show complete forethought of every possible overreaction scenario while they're already under the stress of having been pulled over and yelled at by the police is kind of scary, don't you think?
you should understand that police officers aren't kindergarten teachers. they are armed. in my experiences with cops, i've dealt with the situations in a manner that ensures my safety, even if its something really routine like a traffic stop.

there are many cases where the police act overaggressively yet within legal bounds. and there are cases where cops cross the line and are downright vicious. i get that. but that doesn't mean as a civilian you shouldn't act in a manner that minimizes those odds

if a cop was approaching me to detain me, would i start backing off and swatting his arms saying "dont touch me." fuck no. why? maybe because i dont feel like putting myself in any more danger than i need to. doesn't mean a cop would be "in the right" to inflict harm, but why the fuck would i even rationally put myself in a more difficult position than i need to be in?

you can call it victim blaming, but i recognize we dont live in a pretty world where everybody acts exactly the way they're supposed to. many cops are more aggressive and trigger happy than they need to be. but instead of yammering on about my rights, im just going to be smart about it and not give the situation the possibility of escalating

[velik_m]

I don't get how you can kill somebody and not even face a trial. I guess all those american action movies, where cops kill all those bad guys casually are more realistic than i gave them credit for...

[Yonivore]

chokehold is ILLEGAL for NYPD
You need to learn the difference between being illegal and being a breach of policy.

[Yonivore]

I don't get how you can kill somebody and not even face a trial. I guess all those american action movies, where cops kill all those bad guys casually are more realistic than i gave them credit for...
Why would you expect to face a trial if your killing the person was justified?

[boutons_deux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO-UW_-DxmA#t=167

[boutons_deux]

Why would you expect to face a trial if your killing the person was justified?

to determine that is WAS justified, as in FL's ONLY-white-people-can-SYG-against-black-people law,

[boutons_deux]

Texas cop allowed to resign one week after video exposes him putting woman in chokehold


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/witherspoon_chokehold2-800x430.jpg

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/texas-cop-allowed-to-resign-one-week-after-video-exposes-him-putting-woman-in-chokehold/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[pgardn]

Well, here's an interesting factoid.

You'll notice at the 1:03 mark, an African American female police Sergeant enters the frame. That is Sergeant Kizzi Adoni and she was one of two senior officers present at the arrest of Eric Garner. Does that change my opinion over what happened? No. But, it does tend to support the position this was not a racially motivated act.

ajhpFT-lVZY

EXCLUSIVE: Police report in Eric Garner’s death conflicts with videos, witnesses (http://pix11.com/2014/07/31/exclusive-police-report-in-eric-garners-death-conflicts-with-videos-witnesses/)

What?


I thought this was about police overreacting, no one in this thread mentioned race until you did.

[boutons_deux]

"But, it does tend to support the position this was not a racially motivated act."

yeah, yeah, post-racial America bullshit from racist right-wingdingers, who at the same time denigrate, prejudge the average black simply because of .... his black race.

Kizzi didn't decide to jump the BLACK guy, white guys did. There was nothing she could have done at that point do to "de-racist" the "several white guys took down an unarmed black guy" situation.

Does anybody really think cops would have done, and done so quickly and violently, the same take-down of white guy committing the same horrendous crime?

and dickless bully cops gang-jumping a black guy is so much more adrenalin, intimate fun than tasing or pepper-spraying.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, here's an interesting factoid.

You'll notice at the 1:03 mark, an African American female police Sergeant enters the frame. That is Sergeant Kizzi Adoni and she was one of two senior officers present at the arrest of Eric Garner. Does that change my opinion over what happened? No. But, it does tend to support the position this was not a racially motivated act.

ajhpFT-lVZY

EXCLUSIVE: Police report in Eric Garner’s death conflicts with videos, witnesses (http://pix11.com/2014/07/31/exclusive-police-report-in-eric-garners-death-conflicts-with-videos-witnesses/)I could be wrong, but I thought I heard the other police who gave testimony were granted immunity.

Was she granted immunity for her testimony?

[Yonivore]

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard the other police who gave testimony were granted immunity.

Was she granted immunity for her testimony?
I don't know. My point was there is no evidence on the tape the Sergeant had a problem or was concerned about the manner in which Mr. Garner was subdued. And, her later statements support that.

Nobody there is immune from civil litigation. If Sgt. Adoni was present; she should have known the choke hold was counter to policy and taken action to stop the officer. I'm not suggesting there's not a wrongful death claim (I think there is if, in fact, the officer employed a banned choke hold), I'm merely pointing out that Sgt. Adoni's presence and inaction makes a civil rights case much more problematic.

[Yonivore]

What?


I thought this was about police overreacting, no one in this thread mentioned race until you did.
The universe isn't confined to the threads in this forum. The Garner case is being conflated with the Brown and Martin cases, elsewhere (if not here). In fact, AG Holder has initiated a civil rights investigation. I was merely making a point that (as I believe to be the case in the Brown and Martin shootings, as well) race was not a factor in Mr. Garner's death. With Sgt. Adoni's presence at the scene, combined with her inaction during the arrest, it will be difficult to make a case that his treatment was racially motivated.

[Spurminator]

I don't remember anyone ever suggesting that black cops are immune from treating suspects with a racial bias. Even black-on-black bias.

There's as healthy an amount of distrust among Urban African Americans for black cops as there is for white cops.

[Yonivore]

I don't remember anyone ever suggesting that black cops are immune from treating suspects with a racial bias. Even black-on-black bias.

There's as healthy an amount of distrust among Urban African Americans for black cops as there is for white cops.
So, you believe it's possible Sgt. Adoni is a racist? Against other African-Americans?

I won't disagree there is a certain amount of bias against a perceived criminal element. Mr. Garner was known to the police for having committed a crime similar to what he was being accused. I don't believe that has anything to do with race. In other words, I don't believe Mr. Garner was approached or arrested because of his race but, because of his history.

If you're suggesting Sgt. Adoni can be racist against a subsection of blacks, because of geography, it's no longer a race issue but an environmental issue. She distrusts Garner, not because he's black but, because he's known to police and located in an area where one might suspect criminal activity and, in fact, they did suspect Mr. Garner of committing a crime.

[Blizzardwizard]

Just came across this one. Amazes me how these things still happen in today's society. Guy obviously wasn't going to outrun and escape the police, wtf was the WWE style chokehold for? I don't know the situation though, is the guy responsible being held for manslaughter or murder? If he isn't then he should be tbh.

[Yonivore]

Just came across this one. Amazes me how these things still happen in today's society. Guy obviously wasn't going to outrun and escape the police, wtf was the WWE style chokehold for? I don't know the situation though, is the guy responsible being held for manslaughter or murder? He should be tbh.
So, if a 300 lb man doesn't want to be arrested do you just stand there and wait for him to change his mind? I don't understand the logic that just because he was incapable of escaping, he couldn't resist in other ways such as, fighting back or, as it appears in this case, passive resistance. Have you ever tried to get a 300 lb man to put his hands behind his back to be handcuffed, if he didn't want to be handcuffed?

And, no the guy responsible for Mr. Garner's death isn't being charged with a crime; he's been no-billed by a Grand Jury. However, there is some question over whether or not he violated Department policy in using a choke hold to force Mr. Garner into complying with his own arrest so, there's that. I suspect if, in fact, he did use a banned procedure, he'll face disciplinary action and be subject to a wrongful death lawsuit. Both of which I tend to agree (based on my limited knowledge of the facts) are warranted.

[Spurminator]

So, you believe it's possible Sgt. Adoni is a racist? Against other African-Americans?

I won't disagree there is a certain amount of bias against a perceived criminal element. Mr. Garner was known to the police for having committed a crime similar to what he was being accused. I don't believe that has anything to do with race. In other words, I don't believe Mr. Garner was approached or arrested because of his race but, because of his history.

If you're suggesting Sgt. Adoni can be racist against a subsection of blacks, because of geography, it's no longer a race issue but an environmental issue. She distrusts Garner, not because he's black but, because he's known to police and located in an area where one might suspect criminal activity and, in fact, they did suspect Mr. Garner of committing a crime.

I'm saying that the presence of a black cop on site doesn't mean Eric Garner's race wasn't a factor in how he was apprehended.

[TheSanityAnnex]

to determine that is WAS justified, as in FL's ONLY-white-people-can-SYG-against-black-people law,

How many times must I correct you on this smh. Blacks are more successful invoking stand your ground than whites.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know. My point was there is no evidence on the tape the Sergeant had a problem or was concerned about the manner in which Mr. Garner was subdued. And, her later statements support that.

Nobody there is immune from civil litigation. If Sgt. Adoni was present; she should have known the choke hold was counter to policy and taken action to stop the officer. I'm not suggesting there's not a wrongful death claim (I think there is if, in fact, the officer employed a banned choke hold), I'm merely pointing out that Sgt. Adoni's presence and inaction makes a civil rights case much more problematic.Not really. Her presence does not affect the intentions and possible prejudices of the killing officer in the least.

Well a black cop was there, so there is no way the white officer's action could be racially motivated. is silly on it's face.

[Yonivore]

I'm saying that the presence of a black cop on site doesn't mean Eric Garner's race wasn't a factor in how he was apprehended.
And, I said it made that assertion problematic given her presence, inaction, and later statements.

There's nothing in the public record, so far, to indicate Mr. Garner's race had anything to do with his arrest or the manner of his death. And, there's plenty in the public record, so far, to indicate Mr. Garner resisted arrest and that the officer's actions were due to that resistance and not his race.

[Yonivore]

Not really. Her presence does not affect the intentions and possible prejudices of the killing officer in the least.

Well a black cop was there, so there is no way the white officer's action could be racially motivated. is silly on it's face.
No less silly than asserting race was a factor, simply because Mr. Garner was black and the officer white.

And, my position didn't end with her mere presence; she was the ranking officer on the scene, she did not intercede on Mr. Garner's behalf, and her later statements indicated she didn't have any concerns with the manner of arrest or with Mr. Garner's condition during the take down.

What is your evidence the arrest had any racial component?

[Spurminator]

And, I said it made that assertion problematic given her presence, inaction, and later statements.

So you believe that black officers are less likely to treat black suspects unjustly. What do you base that on?

FYI I don't believe the takedown was racially motivated either, but it seems like you (like most people on your side of the issue) see complaints about racial injustice as a black-vs-white thing instead of a black-vs-justice thing.

[ChumpDumper]

No less silly than asserting race was a factor, simply because Mr. Garner was black and the officer white.No, your assertion is sillier because there is no possible link from one to the other.


And, my position didn't end with her mere presence; she was the ranking officer on the scene, she did not intercede on Mr. Garner's behalf, and her later statements indicated she didn't have any concerns with the manner of arrest or with Mr. Garner's condition during the take down.None of which have anything to do with possible prejudice on the part of the killing officer.

And she was a shitty ranking officer to allow a chokehold. Seems like immunity would be a very attractive offer for her.


What is your evidence the arrest had any racial component?The racial component is self evident.

Whether prejudice was a factor is a matter to be investigated.

[Yonivore]

So you believe that black officers are less likely to treat black suspects unjustly. What do you base that on?

FYI I don't believe the takedown was racially motivated either, but it seems like you (like most people on your side of the issue) see complaints about racial injustice as a black-vs-white thing instead of a black-vs-justice thing.
What I'm saying is, imputing race as a factor in this (and many other -- Brown and Martin come to mind) encounters between police and suspects is unsupported by the facts. What I'm saying is, there is a whole hell of a lot of harm being done in the name these individuals based on the mere birth accident of their race. Granted, not so much with Mr. Garner's death than with Mr. Brown's but, the fact their race is being used as some catalyst for national outrage and misbehavior (supported, apparently, by the administration) is unconscionable.

If Mr. Brown or Mr. Garner were white, cities wouldn't have been looted and protesters wouldn't be acting like idiots with their made up memes of "Hands up, Don't Shoot," "I Can't Breath," and "Black Lives Matter."

That's what I'm saying.

[ChumpDumper]

(supported, apparently, by the administration)What specific misbehaviors are you saying the administration supports?

[Yonivore]

The racial component is self evident.
How so?


Whether prejudice was a factor is a matter to be investigated.
And, how would you determine this without knowing unknowable -- the mind and heart of the officer?

[ChumpDumper]

How so?You can't figure it out?

Think.



And, how would you determine this without knowing unknowable -- the mind and heart of the officer?That's what investigations are for. Patterns and the like are not completely unknowable.

I'm fine with saying this cop was a dangerous idiot without bringing race into it.

Does that make you feel better?

[Yonivore]

You can't figure it out?

Think.
That the suspect is black doesn't automatically introduce race a component to the reason or manner of his arrest and death.


That's what investigations are for. Patterns and the like are not completely unknowable.

I'm fine with saying this cop was a dangerous idiot without bringing race into it.

Does that make you feel better?
It doesn't make me feel anything. Why would it?

[ChumpDumper]

That the suspect is black doesn't automatically introduce race a component to the reason or manner of his arrest and death.lol moving the goalpost.



It doesn't make me feel anything. Why would it?You just seem to be so upset.

[Yonivore]

lol moving the goalpost.
No, my guess is, once again, you weren't explicit enough in your declaration, "the racial component is self-evident."

Obviously it's not evident to me and I drew on the only thing to which I believed you could be referring, that the mere fact Mr. Garner was black introduced a racial component.

Tell me, what goal post did I move?


You just seem to be so upset.
Which of my posts demonstrates this "upset?"

[ChumpDumper]

No, my guess is, once again, you weren't explicit enough in your declaration, "the racial component is self-evident."

Obviously it's not evident to me and I drew on the only to which I believed you could be referring, that the mere fact Mr. Garner was black introduced a racial component.

Tell me, what goal post did I move? You only said component. There is an obvious component.

You felt compelled to qualify it further, which is moving the goalposts.



Which of my posts demonstrates this "upset?"Most of them tbh.

[Yonivore]

You only said component. There is an obvious component.

You felt compelled to qualify it further, which is moving the goalposts.
Reading is fundamental, I didn't "only [say] component." This is what I said:


That the suspect is black doesn't automatically introduce race a component to the reason or manner of his arrest and death.
"...to the reason or manner of his arrest and death," being the part you ignored.


Most of them tbh.
You're getting tedious, I suppose I should let you bite someone else's ankle for awhile.

[ChumpDumper]

What is your evidence the arrest had any racial component?RIF

and your link doesn't work.

[Yonivore]

After re-reading the thread, I realized it wasn't to the statement I posted you were referring, it was probably this one:


What is your evidence the arrest had any racial component?
Same argument. I used the term in qualifying why I didn't see any racial component to the arrest.

[Yonivore]

RIF

and your link doesn't work.
Which link?

[ChumpDumper]

After re-reading the thread, I realized it wasn't to the statement I posted you were referring, it was probably this one:


Same argument. I used the term in qualifying my I didn't see any racial component to the arrest.Are you having a stroke?

[Yonivore]

Are you having a stroke?
No. Just did the stroke test in a mirror. Now, are you going to respond to the questions?

[ChumpDumper]

No. Just did the stroke test in a mirror. Now, are you going to respond to the questions?The link where you quoted yourself doesn't work.

[Yonivore]

The link where you quoted yourself doesn't work.
because it's not a link. If you type "quote=Me," instead of just hitting the quote code, it thinks its a link, even if it's not. It wasn't an intentional deception; the quote was a couple of posts prior to the one in which I quoted it.

[ChumpDumper]

because it's not a link. If you type "quote=Me," instead of just hitting the quote code, it thinks its a link, even if it's not. It wasn't an intentional deception; the quote was a couple of posts prior to the one in which I quoted it.My link worked and is from a post prior to the one you quoted.

[Yonivore]

My link worked and is from a post prior to the one you quoted.

That's because I pushed the "Reply With Quote" link below your post and that automatically inserts the post's serial number. With my quote, I merely typed [open bracket]Quote=Me[close bracket]. I was unaware it treated that as a hyperlink but, since the actual post serial number wasn't included (and, I suppose I could have done that) the hyperlink had no place to take you.

[Aztecfan03]

lol moving the goalpost.



The ones in your mind? Because I really don't see him moving goalposts in the thread.

[ChumpDumper]

The ones in your mind? Because I really don't see him moving goalposts in the thread.I wouldn't expect you to.

[Yonivore]

I wouldn't expect you to.
I'm beginning to wonder if you see them. You keep claiming they've been moved but have avoided answering the question of how they were moved, every time it's asked.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm beginning to wonder if you see them. You keep claiming they've been moved but have avoided answering the question of how they were moved, every time it's asked.It's just hilarious that you don't get it.

[Yonivore]

It's just hilarious that you don't get it.
Okay, it's funny. It's a mystery why you won't clue me in.

[ChumpDumper]

Okay, it's funny. It's a mystery why you won't clue me in.i like having fun. No mystery in that.

[Yonivore]

i like having fun. No mystery in that.
Well, you're on your own then.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, you're on your own then.Here?

Always have been.

[angrydude]

I don't care to follow the usual circlejerk arguments. Just chiming in here to say a no bill in this situation is ridiculous and that cop should have been prosecuted. IMHO this is a much better case to get upset about than that ferguson bullshit.

At the very least this is negligent manslaughter.

[Yonivore]

Interesting article on the real lesson of Eric Garner's death...

Law Puts Us All in Same Danger as Eric Garner (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-04/law-puts-us-all-in-same-danger-as-eric-garner)


On the opening day of law school, I always counsel my first-year students never to support a law they are not willing to kill to enforce. Usually they greet this advice with something between skepticism and puzzlement, until I remind them that the police go armed to enforce the will of the state, and if you resist, they might kill you.

I wish this caution were only theoretical. It isn’t. Whatever your view on the refusal of a New York City grand jury to indict the police officer whose chokehold apparently led to the death of Eric Garner, it’s useful to remember the crime that Garner is alleged to have committed: He was selling individual cigarettes, or loosies, in violation of New York law…..

The problem is actually broader. It’s not just cigarette tax laws that can lead to the death of those the police seek to arrest. It’s every law. Libertarians argue that we have far too many laws, and the Garner case offers evidence that they’re right. I often tell my students that there will never be a perfect technology of law enforcement, and therefore it is unavoidable that there will be situations where police err on the side of too much violence rather than too little. Better training won’t lead to perfection. But fewer laws would mean fewer opportunities for official violence to get out of hand.
Bottom line: DON'T SUPPORT LAWS YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO KILL TO ENFORCE.

[ElNono]

^ thanks for sharing, Yoni. I actually don't necessarily agree with the construct and the conclusion, but it's a different viewpoint. :tu

[spurraider21]

i think thats just deflecting the issue at hand. the issue at hand is how police encounters might escalate too quickly, whether police protocol needs to be corrected, or if these officers are simply in the wrong. not about cigarette taxes. its just trying to steer people away from the problem actually at hand and instead trying to have an entirely different argument. a diversion.

you can take any valid law we have, and say "well you can get killed while its being enforced, so maybe you shouldn't support that law"

- "well if we didnt have jaywalking laws, michael brown wouldn't have died"

[ElNono]

i think thats just deflecting the issue at hand. the issue at hand is how police encounters might escalate too quickly, whether police protocol needs to be corrected, or if these officers are simply in the wrong. not about cigarette taxes. its just trying to steer people away from the problem actually at hand and instead trying to have an entirely different argument. a diversion.

you can take any valid law we have, and say "well you can get killed while its being enforced, so maybe you shouldn't support that law"

- "well if we didnt have jaywalking laws, michael brown wouldn't have died"

That's my reaction: red-herring... you could just as easily make the argument that a law setting clear guidelines on police conduct could've been just as effective in avoiding this incident.

But, then again, it's practically routine to use cases like this as political crutches (on both sides of the ideological landscape).

[spurraider21]

That's my reaction: red-herring... you could just as easily make the argument that a law setting clear guidelines on police conduct could've been just as effective in avoiding this incident.

But, then again, it's practically routine to use cases like this as political crutches (on both sides of the ideological landscape).
yeah, i'm sure you've heard Rand Paul's take on this :lol

hmm, somebody died at the hands of police... obviously time to start talking about my hatred for taxes

[ChumpDumper]

Interesting article on the real lesson of Eric Garner's death...

Law Puts Us All in Same Danger as Eric Garner (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-04/law-puts-us-all-in-same-danger-as-eric-garner)


Bottom line: DON'T SUPPORT LAWS YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO KILL TO ENFORCE.If I support a law against police chokeholds will the police all kill each other?

[velik_m]

Interesting article on the real lesson of Eric Garner's death...

Law Puts Us All in Same Danger as Eric Garner (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-04/law-puts-us-all-in-same-danger-as-eric-garner)


Bottom line: DON'T SUPPORT LAWS YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO KILL TO ENFORCE.

If i'm not willing to kill, does that make me an anarchist?

[boutons_deux]

Law Puts Us All in Same Danger as Eric Garner (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-04/law-puts-us-all-in-same-danger-as-eric-garner)

"Libertarians argue that we have far too many laws, and the Garner case offers evidence that they’re right."

that's evidence? :lol It's not even original, Fox talkin heads already days ago blamed "laws" for EG's death.

fuck libertarians, they're frauds, and fuck Stephen I Carter,

P E, tell us again how they're NO EVIDENCE of cigarettes causing lung cancer! :lol

[Yonivore]

i think thats just deflecting the issue at hand. the issue at hand is how police encounters might escalate too quickly, whether police protocol needs to be corrected, or if these officers are simply in the wrong. not about cigarette taxes. its just trying to steer people away from the problem actually at hand and instead trying to have an entirely different argument. a diversion.

you can take any valid law we have, and say "well you can get killed while its being enforced, so maybe you shouldn't support that law"
Well, to be fair, there are some laws we ARE willing to have the police kill to enforce, if necessary.


- "well if we didnt have jaywalking laws, michael brown wouldn't have died"
Maybe not, but this shit wouldn't happen...

Woman Violently Arrested After Jaywalking (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/austin-pd-justify-behavior-viral-jaywalking-arrest/#.VIMbrjHF-ao)

[ChumpDumper]

Well, to be fair, there are some laws we ARE willing to have the police kill to enforce, if necessary.


Maybe not, but this shit wouldn't happen...

Woman Violently Arrested After Jaywalking (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/austin-pd-justify-behavior-viral-jaywalking-arrest/#.VIMbrjHF-ao)Oh so violent.

It's simple enough to tell cops not to be assholes. Are you willing to do that?

[boutons_deux]

More proof that the Repug racist operatives of the SCOTUS5 are "right" about "a lot has changed since the 1960s (so we gut the VRA)"

Bernard J. Tyson (https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=261404895&authType=name&authToken=AYKf&trk=pulse-det-athr_prof-art_hdr)
Chairman and CEO of Kaiser Permanente

You would think my experience as a top executive would be different from a black man who is working in a retail or food service job to support his family.

Yet, he and I both understand the commonality of the black male experience that remains consistent no matter what the economic status or job title.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141204174020-261404895-it-s-time-to-revolutionize-race-relations

[boutons_deux]

The New York police officer who killed Eric Garner has been sued three times (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861935/Chokehold-cop-sued-THREE-TIMES-Eric-Garner-death.html) for allegedly violating the constitutional rights of other blacks he and fellow cops arrested.

A 2013 federal court lawsuit alleges that Daniel Pantaleo and other officers subjected Darren Collins and Tommy Rice to “humiliating and unlawful strip searches in public view.”

They said Pantaleo “slapped and tapped” their testicles.

The officers insisted they acted reasonably and exercised their discretion, but the lawsuit was settled last year for $30,000.

Rylawn Walker’s 2012 lawsuit alleged Pantaleo and other officers falsely arrested him for marijuana. The charges against Walker were dismissed.

A third suit involved Kenneth Collins, who alleged Pantaleo violated his rights during a 2012 marijuana arrest, including “a degrading search of his genitals” (disposition unknown)

http://firedoglake.com/2014/12/06/adding-up-eric-garner/

rest of the article lists how police depts shoot blacks but hide the details, etc, etc, plus, as with gun registrations, there is no national database of police' 500+ shootings over the past few years.

[m>s]

what's the big deal, NYPD is just culling the population.

[boutons_deux]

New York City to pay $5.9 million to family of Eric Garner

New York City has reached a settlement with the family of Eric Garner, who died after being put in a chokehold by police last July, agreeing to pay $5.9 million to resolve the claim over his death, city officials said on Monday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/14/us-usa-new-york-garner-idUSKCN0PN2NE20150714?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

[boutons_deux]

Bottom line: DON'T KILL PEOPLE WITH ILLEGAL CHOKEHOLDS

[russellgoat]

When are "liberals" gonna recognize they are guilty of his death because of their war against tobacco?

[boutons_deux]

When are "liberals" gonna recognize they are guilty of his death because of their war against tobacco?

:lol keep digging, asshole :lol

[Sportcamper]

Bottom line: DON'T KILL PEOPLE WITH ILLEGAL CHOKEHOLDS

It was a legal neck take down...Not a choke hold...

[boutons_deux]

Here's a news item that should warm the black hearts of all you Nazis, racist, KKKers, #BlueLivesMatter, #RedNeckLivesMatter

Eric Garner’s daughter in coma after suffering heart attack (https://nypost.com/2017/12/25/eric-garners-daughter-in-coma-after-suffering-heart-attack/)

https://nypost.com/2017/12/25/eric-garners-daughter-in-coma-after-suffering-heart-attack/

[boutons_deux]

NYPD finally fires cop who killed Eric Garner




https://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Eric-Garner-arrest-Screenshot.jpg

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/nypd-finally-fires-cop-who-killed-eric-garner/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1181

[FrostKing]

Lol fat people

[boutons_deux]

NYPD cop Daniel Pantaleo’s pay rises to $120G while working desk duty since killing Eric Garner

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/chokehold-salary-rises-killing-eric-garner-article-1.2789313 (https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/chokehold-salary-rises-killing-eric-garner-article-1.2789313)

[Trill Clinton]

Crazy how comfortable we are with cops killing non violent citizens over sometime so trivial as selling cigs.

[boutons_deux]

Crazy how comfortable we are with cops killing non violent citizens over sometime so trivial as selling cigs.

whites murdering non-whites, it's what makes America America.

[MultiTroll]

NYPD cop Daniel Pantaleo’s pay rises to $120G while working desk duty since killing Eric Garner

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/chokehold-salary-rises-killing-eric-garner-article-1.2789313 (https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/chokehold-salary-rises-killing-eric-garner-article-1.2789313)
Does this bitch get full pension?
He just got fired.
Altho the Union is feigning outrage.

[Thread]

Crazy how comfortable we are with cops killing non violent citizens over sometime so trivial as selling cigs.

Just do what the cops tell you to do. Does anybody like it? No. But, you got to do it, or, chances are you end up living with Jesus full time.

[Thread]

Does this bitch get full pension?
He just got fired.
Altho the Union is feigning outrage.

No, they robbed his pension.

The pieces of shit.

[boutons_deux]

Interesting article on the real lesson of Eric Garner's death...

Law Puts Us All in Same Danger as Eric Garner (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-04/law-puts-us-all-in-same-danger-as-eric-garner)


Bottom line: DON'T SUPPORT LAWS YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO KILL TO ENFORCE.

That's a fucked up bottom line, but it's Pussy Eater, so ...

selling onesies is a capital crime, punishable by death without trial? :lol

fucking rightwingnutjobs, love to apply the law with brutality on non-white-non-males, while ignoring the crimes of the white-male oligarchy.

[MultiTroll]

No, they robbed his pension.

The pieces of shit.
LOL.
Cheering on some 6-on-1 bully-cowards who took down a very obese guy with health problems for potentially selling loose cigarettes.
FOH.
Pussy ass should be facing manslaughter charges.

[Reck]

CC with the not-so subtle racist thread title plus a little dishuminazing touch on it.

[Thread]

LOL.
Cheering on some 6-on-1 bully-cowards who took down a very obese guy with health problems for potentially selling loose cigarettes.
FOH.
Pussy ass should be facing manslaughter charges.

If he obeys the cops directives he'd be alive today. He did it to himself.

[MultiTroll]

If he obeys the cops directives he'd be alive today. He did it to himself.
Derrr errr errr if the 7 cops weren't such pussies he'd be alive today.

[Thread]

Derrr errr errr if the 7 cops weren't such pussies he'd be alive today.

No. That ain't the way it works. The cops have the conPERIOD

[MultiTroll]

No. That ain't the way it works. The cops have the conPERIOD
Ya. Was an illegal choke hold and take down.
Aint nothing going to change that.

[Thread]

Ya. Was an illegal choke hold and take down.
Aint nothing going to change that.

A choke hold ain't illegal. A take down of a suspect ain't illegal.

But, as usual, Mult, you & the others can never, ever stipulate to being wrong. It's fucking maddening!

[MultiTroll]

A choke hold ain't illegal.
:rollin you just lost all cred guy. C'mon.
Let's see who say's it is illegal. And by that I mean quotes:



Police Commissioner James O'Neill

In reaching the decision, O'Neill said he was putting faith in the assessment of Judge Rosemarie Maldonado, a deputy police commissioner who presided over Garner's disciplinary trial.O'Neill heavily cited Maldonado's opinion in announcing the firing on Monday. In particular, he mentioned the finding that Pantaleo's use of the chokehold "was reckless and constituted a gross deviation from the standard of conduct established for a New York City police officer."

[MultiTroll]

But, as usual, Mult, you & the others can never, ever stipulate to being wrong. It's fucking maddening!
If you want to be reasonable and talk percentages, I agree that Phat Phuck could have offered absolutely zero resistance and the demonic pigs might not have offed him. At least not there on the sidewalk.

[Thread]

If you want to be reasonable and talk percentages, I agree that Phat Phuck could have offered absolutely zero resistance and the demonic pigs might not have offed him. At least not there on the sidewalk.

Thank you. Christ, it was like pulling fucking teeth.

[Thread]

:rollin you just lost all cred guy. C'mon.
Let's see who say's it is illegal. And by that I mean quotes:



Police Commissioner James O'Neill

In reaching the decision, O'Neill said he was putting faith in the assessment of Judge Rosemarie Maldonado, a deputy police commissioner who presided over Garner's disciplinary trial.O'Neill heavily cited Maldonado's opinion in announcing the firing on Monday. In particular, he mentioned the finding that Pantaleo's use of the chokehold "was reckless and constituted a gross deviation from the standard of conduct established for a New York City police officer."


I was wrongPERIOD

[MultiTroll]

^ right on. Related, i do believe Ramsey Ortas accounts.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/13/18253848/eric-garner-footage-ramsey-orta-police-brutality-killing-safety

[MultiTroll]

Thank you. Christ, it was like pulling fucking teeth.
So while Fatty could have perhaps spared himself, it still stands that if the 7 cops roll him and rough him up a bit, and the one major prick Pantaleno does NOT do the illegal chokehold......he is still alive.

[Thread]

^ right on. Related, i do believe Ramsey Ortas accounts.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/13/18253848/eric-garner-footage-ramsey-orta-police-brutality-killing-safety

If he obeys the police he's alive. Same with the Gentle Giant in Ferguson.

[Thread]

So while Fatty could have perhaps spared himself, it still stands that if the 7 cops roll him and rough him up a bit, and the one major prick Pantaleno does NOT do the illegal chokehold......he is still alive.

He's still alive if he submits at once to police directives. He didn't think he was going to jail that day & didn't want to go to jail that day. Not-that-day. He took it as trolling him & got belligerent & it cost him his life. Were the cops happy he resisted? Yes. But, you have to thwart them; don't give them the satisfaction= A. Don't break the law. B. When you have broken the law take your medicine.

In the end he did not want to go thru the rigmarole of being booked, set in a cell with a bunch of no accounts, having to make a call to get bailed out, on & on. It was gamble to be on that street selling cigarettes & he knew it. He just wagered he'd be lucky on that day. He lost that wager.

[MultiTroll]

He's still alive if he submits at once to police directives. He didn't think he was going to jail that day & didn't want to go to jail that day. Not-that-day. He took it as trolling him & got belligerent & it cost him his life. Were the cops happy he resisted? Yes. But, you have to thwart them; don't give them the satisfaction= A. Don't break the law. B. When you have broken the law take your medicine.

In the end he did not want to go thru the rigmarole of being booked, set in a cell with a bunch of no accounts, having to make a call to get bailed out, on & on. It was gamble to be on that street selling cigarettes & he knew it. He just wagered he'd be lucky on that day. He lost that wager.
Great so lets assign %s.
What % are the cops responsible? Break it up into the 6 other cowards and the main coward Mr. Illegal Choke Hold.

[Thread]

Great so lets assign %s.
What % are the cops responsible? Break it up into the 6 other cowards and the main coward Mr. Illegal Choke Hold.

The cops are responsible non whatsoever, Mult. They were doing their job. They're just as cognizant to the (displacement) of a common booking as the perp. He was breaking the law. AGAIN, he took a chance. Had good odds from what I can gather= A. they won't drive by. B. they'll drive by but won't stop. C. they'll warn me off and I'll walk away.

Probably one or more of the cops hadn't gotten trim the night before and was cross. "Let's take him down, ruin his weekend."

It's him, Mult, who can put a stop to itPERIOD "I fucked up and gambled. I'll be there 24 hours tops, I'll bail out, the Judge will give me a rap on the knuckles if it ever comes to trial, and I'll be luckier the next time I'm out there on the wire."

No. He didn't do that because he was not prepared (((mentally))) to go into the lockup and the INCONVENIENCE that would entail.

[MultiTroll]

The cops are responsible non whatsoever, Mult. They were doing their job.



:rollin
you just lost all cred guy. C'mon.
Let's see who say's it is illegal. And by that I mean quotes:


Police Commissioner James O'Neill

In reaching the decision, O'Neill said he was putting faith in the assessment of Judge Rosemarie Maldonado, a deputy police commissioner who presided over Garner's disciplinary trial.O'Neill heavily cited Maldonado's opinion in announcing the firing on Monday. In particular, he mentioned the finding that Pantaleo's use of the chokehold "was reckless and constituted a gross deviation from the standard of conduct established for a New York City police officer."



I was wrongPERIOD

[Thread]

^Yes.

But, if he obeys their commands the choke hold would have never been administered.

[MultiTroll]

^Yes.

But, if he obeys their commands the choke hold would have never been administered.
:cry "It's Fattys fault 100% the choke hold was applied.":cry

No f-ing way.

[Thread]

:cry "It's Fattys fault 100% the choke hold was applied.":cry

No f-ing way.

Yes. If he follows the law not once, but, twice he's still alive.

[Thread]

:cry "It's Fattys fault 100% the choke hold was applied.":cry

No f-ing way.

ADDENDUM:::God gives the fellow a do-over.

God: "Chose, Mr. Gardner."

Mr. Gardner: "I'll turn & face the wall."

That's the proof in the pudding, Mult. Gardner would never make the same choice. That's always the true test of any situation...(The Redo).

[MultiTroll]

Yes. If he follows the law not once, but, twice he's still alive.

Yes. If he follows the law not once, but, twice he's still alive.

-the cop.

You're 100% biased.

[Thread]

Yes. If he follows the law not once, but, twice he's still alive.

-the cop.

You're 100% biased.


You're wrong, but, incapable of seeing anything but your perspective.

[MultiTroll]

You're wrong, but, incapable of seeing anything but your perspective.

You're wrong, but, incapable of seeing anything but your perspective.

[MultiTroll]

Anywho i'm putting it at 85% cops 15% Fatty.
80% of the 85 put on Prick Patalone, the choke hold faggot.

Do not presume those cops even had any cause to bust Fatty, as this neighborhood cops MO is often to plant evidence and/or fabricate crimes.
But, given Fattys past record it is reasonable to conclude he was back selling loosies.

So Threads boys decide they are jury judge and executioner for the serious crime of maybe selling loosies and not bowing down when surrounded 7 by on 1.

The cell phone recording don't lie.

[Thread]

Anywho i'm putting it at 85% cops 15% Fatty.
80% of the 85 put on Prick Patalone, the choke hold faggot.

Do not presume those cops even had any cause to bust Fatty, as this neighborhood cops MO is often to plant evidence and/or fabricate crimes.
But, given Fattys past record it is reasonable to conclude he was back selling loosies.

So Threads boys decide they are jury judge and executioner for the serious crime of maybe selling loosies and not bowing down when surrounded 7 by on 1.

The cell phone recording don't lie.

Forget it, Mult. You're too bitter now to have a conversation with.

[RandomGuy]

Resisting arrest justifies the use of force necessary to effect the arrest.

Certain methods (such as choke holds) are barred by some agencies because they can result in exactly what happened.

And, nothing against Mr. Garner but, a healthier person probably would not have succumbed to the force used to arrest him. I believe the medical examiner said as much.

Here's a post that didn't age well.

[boutons_deux]

Rand Paul blames ‘exorbitant taxes’ for police killing of Eric Garner

U.S. Senator Rand Paul (https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/?s=Rand+Paul) (R-KY) says the NYPD's 2014 killing of an unarmed Black man, Eric Garner, by suffocation, was because of "exorbitant taxes."

"In fact the death of Eric Garner, the sad death of Eric Garner being choked to death in New York City, had to do with taxes,"

it was police brutality based on exorbitant taxes :lol

that caused this man to be selling cigarettes. loose cigarettes, in order to try to make a living,"

Garner wasn't selling loose cigarettes because taxes were too high.

If anything, the lack of access to health care is far more to blame

for Garner being forced to quit his job for health reasons and

taking to the streets to try to make money selling cigarettes than taxes.

https://www.alternet.org/2021/05/rand-paul-eric-garner/

[Thread]

Rand Paul blames ‘exorbitant taxes’ for police killing of Eric Garner

U.S. Senator Rand Paul (https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/?s=Rand+Paul) (R-KY) says the NYPD's 2014 killing of an unarmed Black man, Eric Garner, by suffocation, was because of "exorbitant taxes."

"In fact the death of Eric Garner, the sad death of Eric Garner being choked to death in New York City, had to do with taxes,"

it was police brutality based on exorbitant taxes :lol

that caused this man to be selling cigarettes. loose cigarettes, in order to try to make a living,"

Garner wasn't selling loose cigarettes because taxes were too high.

If anything, the lack of access to health care is far more to blame

for Garner being forced to quit his job for health reasons and

taking to the streets to try to make money selling cigarettes than taxes.

https://www.alternet.org/2021/05/rand-paul-eric-garner/




Tubs had been repeatedly warned to cease & desist, bouts.

Like your hero Floyd; who had pointed a gun at a pregnant woman's stomach among a lifetime of evil doings. Figures that idiot LeBron would champion this waste of space instead of concentrating on opening a nice can of whoop ass on the Suns.

I want James to drive those Suns before the horde tomorrow, then he can lamentate those women.