Pounding the Rock: "The Disease of More" and Kawhi Leonard.

[BillMc]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2014/12/4/7332397/the-disease-of-more-kawhi-leonard

This is an interesting article, even if written by a fan. It points out what many of us have noted, that running more plays through Leonard seems to be hurting our offense. The article is quite critical of Pop, Kawhi and Kawhi's agent.

To some degree I agree with his "on court" analysis, but disagree with the motives behind the changes. I think Pop is using the early season (as he always does) to experiment. And he's frankly seeing what Kawhi can do within the scope of the offense with the ball in his hands. He may be playing to Kawhi's desires for more shots, but that's Pop's job, to find out what works. I'm sure by April we'll have the free-wheeling offense back, but this is the time to find what have in Leonard.

The article, when talking about Kawhi's inefficiency, also ignores his illness to begin the season and his still cloudy vision.

Pop isn't stupid. He isn't going to turn Kawhi into Kobe/Melo with "a feed him the ball and get out of the way" design. At least, not when it matters. I do wonder, though, if Kawhi's expectations are realistic. As reserved as he is, he has made a few remarks about wanting to see the offense run more often through him. Hopefully the article is wrong about the "Disease of More."

[dabom]

How can u talk about kawhi's shooting efficiencies without talking about his eyes being bad. I didnt read the article though. Ptr fans . Lol

[apalisoc_9]

One of the worst articles I've ever read tbh...

Ignoring the fact, that "more" is what the spurs did to Kawhi in both finals and conference finals in the last two years.

Sean would stomp this nigga to ground...

[Chinook]

I just wish the Spurs had worked on getting Kawhi into the post within the flow of the offense. He's not Prime Duncan. At best, he'll be Melo on O. However, this is the time to experiment, not just with Kawhi, but with all the other Spurs. Cory and Danny should get more looks as creators. Even Daye and Ayres should get some burn doing things they don't normally do to see if it works out. So far, the team isn't hurting too badly. No reason to dramatically change the plan unless they go on a skid.

[Mr Bones]

Talking about Kawhi's FG% being down from last year without even mentioning his eye infection and the fact that he played a bunch of games with blurry vision is disingenuous at best. What about the possibility that he discussed the vision issue and Pop decided, based on that info, that posting up more might be a good experiment? I don't know what transpired between Pop and Kawhi with regard to shot selection, but either way, Kawhi's FG% numbers this early in the season, paired with the eye issue, don't really mean anything.

[cjw]

Talking about Kawhi's FG% being down from last year without even mentioning his eye infection and the fact that he played a bunch of games with blurry vision is disingenuous at best. What about the possibility that he discussed the vision issue and Pop decided, based on that info, that posting up more might be a good experiment? I don't know what transpired between Pop and Kawhi with regard to shot selection, but either way, Kawhi's FG% numbers this early in the season, paired with the eye issue, don't really mean anything.

Right, plus it's still very early in the season - if the PTR author wants to jump to conclusions, why not crown Tony Parker the new Reggie Miller?

[loveforthegame]

That's an awful article. :td

[Hoops Czar]

Another Kawhi article? I wonder if Shawn Marion had this much fanfare when he was in his 4th year. Probably not because the Internet was just starting to take off.

[rasuo214]

Shawn Marion was pretty popular.

Also Kawhi tends to play better as the season progresses. Remember how poorly he shot early last season, after the AS break was completely different.

BTW since Marion was brought up he took 18 shots per game his 4th year, Kawhi is shooting just under 12 shots a game.

[BatManu20]

Kawhi's averaging about 15 ppg right now on 45% shooting, and he's not shooting the ball particularly well from deep (32% from 3). He's missing a lot of open looks from downtown so far. If/when he starts knocking those down at a higher rate, he'll be averaging around 20 pts/per, maybe a hair under, along with his 8 boards and 2 steals, which would be pretty great, tbh. If he can average those #'s (20/8/2) and continue to play elite defense, you can't ask for much more than that tbh.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Stupid article.

Kawhi's usage rate is barely up. From 18.3% last year to 21% this year. His usage rate is still No. 5 on the team. And his 45%/33% despite his conjunctivitis means that he is still quite efficient, except not as much as he would want to be. Combine this with his defense and he is a surefire All Star in my book.

[Dex]

My problem is that I love watching the Spurs offense flow. I like the ball to kick eight, nine and ten times. I even like it when they overpass and it results in a turnover.

Sums up the idiocy of this article quite succinctly.

I love watching the Spur's Beautiful Game, too, but there is a reason that it works, and that is a passing game around established inside threats. Getting Kawhi comfortable being another one of those only makes the system stronger, and that's also where he seems most comfortable getting his shots. Otherwise, you are asking the Finals MVP to live off backdoor cuts and standing in the corners.

[biskvito]

One of my favorite artists said once you make a hit album or a hit song people come back to you wanting more and they find you sitting on the "Idiot's Chair".

[jeebus]

Pounding the cock and project sperm....both lost any sort of credibility years ago. They both became beyond laughable when they sucked off Ayres. Repeatedly.

[wildbill2u]

I've had a few doubts about the "new" Kwahi using the post up game while the passing game stalls out as well. I have a lot of faith in Pop in what he thinks will work best with his personnel, but I'm not sure that Kwahi Hero Ball is the ticket. We'll see.

[Raven]

I just wish the Spurs had worked on getting Kawhi into the post within the flow of the offense. He's not Prime Duncan. At best, he'll be Melo on O. However, this is the time to experiment, not just with Kawhi, but with all the other Spurs. Cory and Danny should get more looks as creators. Even Daye and Ayres should get some burn doing things they don't normally do to see if it works out. So far, the team isn't hurting too badly. No reason to dramatically change the plan unless they go on a skid.

i agree.

[SsKSpurs21]

Another Kawhi article? I wonder if Shawn Marion had this much fanfare when he was in his 4th year. Probably not because the Internet was just starting to take off.

Shawn Marion was widely popular due to the surge in fantasy basketball. he was consistently a top 3-5 pick during the run and gun phx years.

[ajh18]

I don't think the plan is to make Kawhi "the" number 1 option right now. But I think Pop would like to a) get him a bit more involved overall to transition him in that direction gradually, and b) give Kawhi enough games early on where he acts as the number 1 option that he and his teammates are comfortable with him playing that role if circumstances dictate he needs to in certain match-ups come playoff time.

Who knows what team we'll match up with in the playoffs, or who might be injured. Making Kawhi comfortable as a primary scoring option and getting the rest of the team comfortable operating with him in that role is a valuable tool to make us more diverse and harder to defend.

[SnakeBoy]

Dumb premise and horrible writing. The author should never be allowed to write another article.

[wildchild]

Opportunists like Silva, betray the trust through hiding facts like Leonard vision issues, and manipulation numbers like usage rate.

He didn't write about Kawhi post-up game after Clippers, Lakers, 76rs games where he played in the post successfully, he wait to say that after a loss in Brooklyn. That's an opportunistic guy.

[Chinook]

And people are attacking this article because ... ? Do folks really not see that Kawhi's plays seem disjointed in the Spurs offense? It's not about the eye, really. Sure, Kawhi would be better, so the overall numbers should be better. But the offense is still going to be weaker until they find away to fit in Kawhi's post game more effectively. Right now, this whole 'drop it off to Kawhi and let him make something happen' mentality is going to suck compared to the free-flowing passing offense the team had in the playoffs. But the hope is that the Spurs will be able to do both depending on the situation.

[gilmor2002]

And people are attacking this article because ... ? Do folks really not see that Kawhi's plays seem disjointed in the Spurs offense? It's not about the eye, really. Sure, Kawhi would be better, so the overall numbers should be better. But the offense is still going to be weaker until they find away to fit in Kawhi's post game more effectively. Right now, this whole 'drop it off to Kawhi and let him make something happen' mentality is going to suck compared to the free-flowing passing offense the team had in the playoffs. But the hope is that the Spurs will be able to do both depending on the situation.

Things will change when play-offs is near.

I cringe when I see Kawhi goes iso all the time.

If this goes off into the play-offs don't expect Spurs to win the championship this year.

[Chinook]

Things will change when play-offs is near.

I cringe when I see Kawhi goes iso all the time.

If this goes off into the play-offs don't expect Spurs to win the championship this year.

Yes, that's true. I don't like the idea of Leonard going KawhISO too much. But I think it'd be a great thing if the team already knew what to do in situations where they needed Leonard to score.

[Mr Bones]

Even if it's an experiment that doesn't ultimately work, the more frequent posting up of Kawhi makes sense, and I strongly doubt he'd be doing it without the encouragement and urging of Pop. It's early in the season-- the perfect time to try new things-- and the Spurs are 15-5, for a .750 winning percentage. I don't see how anyone can possibly see anything negative in this.

[ElNono]

This is the time to learn when the Spurs can and cannot go to Kawhi, what works, what doesn't work... there's really nothing more to it, tbh...

[KL2]

I wonder how many of Leonard's passes have gone up for bricks this year, I'd say at least 60% this year. It's one thing I've been watching, Leonard has been getting guys wide open shots all year long so far, nobody has been making them, they're usually wide open 3's. The Spurs' offense would be on fire if they did and nobody would be talking about this lol. The guy who wrote this article is an idiot tbh.

[wildchild]

And people are attacking this article because ... ?
-hide facts
-manipulate stats
-suggest some uncorroborated things about Leonard personality.


the offense is still going to be weaker until they find away to fit in Kawhi's post game more effectively
And the article tries to say that is Kawhi's fault when it's not.

[dabom]

-hide facts
-manipulate stats
-suggest some uncorroborated things about Leonard personality.


And the article tries to say that is Kawhi's fault when it's not.

Dam dude. Have mercy. :lol

[benstanfield]

After you have some success, you want more, more, more. I call it the disease of more, but what you get is less of what you did to help the team. Once someone gets too far away from the pattern, you got to bring them back in.
-- Pat Riley

Not sure why I should give a shit about Pat Riley's psychoanalytic musings tbqh. The fact that the writer takes it as ironclad fact and bases the rest of the article on it is questionable at best.


Coach Popovich is doing the complete opposite of that with Leonard, and it's hurting the team as well as Kawhi. I'm not a fan of the offense stopping so Kawhi can post up. The Spurs are at their best when the ball doesn't stick. Pop is getting away from that in the early part of this season as he attempts to will Kawhi into something he's not: a top ten offensive talent.

This is where shit gets retarded. Author implies 1) that Kawhi is posting up more than usual and 2) getting Kawhi comfortable in the post now won't pay huge dividends in the future. Regarding 1), Kawhi is shooting less from 3-10 than he did last year. The real increase has been in his midrange shooting, where ~36% of his shots are coming this year as opposed to 26% last year. Regarding 2), author is just straight up stupid.



Kawhi doesn't have the athleticism to be a Kobe-in-his-prime type of offensive player, yet he is taking many Kobe-in-his-prime type of shots this season. He lacks the jumping ability to truly dominate his position offensively. Specifically, his jumper doesn't have the necessary height to it to get it off comfortably on a consistent basis. Because of this, he makes 1.5 too many fakes when he posts up, and the result is an off-balance, poor shot.

I'm glad Fred Silva has the potential of a 23 year old already mapped out, and is better at gauging a player's abilities than Pop. We shouldn't increase Kawhi's USG% by 3% over last year because Fred on the internet likes passing.


I assume Pop's argument for pushing Leonard to forget about the 'Big Three' and become the 'Big One' is that the 'Big Three' are 'older than dirt' and a transition has to take place at some point. But this championship window is still wide-open and sacrificing wins and team chemistry at this point of the franchise's arc just feels like an inappropriate risk.
:cryso many wins sacrificed:cry
:cryplayers probably hate each other now that Kawhi is shooting 2 more times a game:cry



I'm fearful that I mistook Kawhi's quiet demeanor for humbleness. Tim is humble. Tony is humble. Manu is humble. David was humble. Avery was humble. Sean was humble. What Kawhi is doing is not humble, in my opinion. It began with his agent throwing the Spurs organization under the bus for not offering Kawhi the max. Obviously, it makes more sense to wait and give him the max later for salary cap reasons. It will give the Spurs their best opportunity to surround Kawhi with talent if Tim and Manu retire after this season. Anyone can see that. It doesn't even take intelligence. It's just common sense. But his agent decided to go to the press with ridiculous, illogical thoughts and I found it very unsettling.

I know right, how ridiculous that a sports agent wouldn't want his client to risk injury for a year without a guaranteed max until next year. Kawhi does seem like a selfish guy now that I think about it. Always hogging the limelight and wanting more touches. Thanks Fred.

And :downspin:"Tony was humble"


What's troublesome is that it's difficult for me to separate that event with what is transpiring on the court. Whenever Kawhi scores a lot of points, he tells the media something like, "Well, I got shots." Implying that if he always took a lot of shots, he'd always score a lot of points. And more than that, that he wants a lot more shots. He's pretty sure that Pop promised him more shots and hasn't really come through.

This is ST-level incoherence


I think Kawhi's ego has steadily grown, even if his off-court personality has not. While Pat Riley's 'Disease of More' has definitely not taken hold of the entire team, I think Kawhi is showing the symptoms and rather than forcing him to take his medicine, Pop is telling him to stay out later and party harder.

:downspin::downspin::downspin::downspin::downspin: :downspin:wut:downspin::downspin::downspin::downsp in::downspin::downspin::downspin::downspin:


Here are some stats from nba.com that support my eyeball theory. I'll give you the statistical category, followed by Kawhi's stats for last year and then this year. For example: PPG, 12.8, 14.9. So he's scoring 2.1 more points per game this year than he did last year. That seems like a good thing, right? Well, it's not.Pace, 97.23, 94.79. When Kawhi's on the floor, the team's pace has slowed as compared to last season. I assume this is due to the, 'Let's stop the offense so Kawhi can post up for eight seconds as everyone stands around and watches.' What are we, the Knicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/new-york-knicks)?
eFG%, 57.6, 50.1. TS%, 60.2, 54.5. As Kawhi takes more shots outside the Spurs' system, his shooting percentages have taken a hit. I don't think this is a shooting slump. This is a reflection of Kawhi taking worse, more difficult shots.
AST/TO, 1.66, 1.26. AST Ratio, 14.6, 11.6. TO Ratio, 8.8, 9.2. His assist to turnovers ratio is significantly worse and his number of assists per possession are down. He's taking more shots, passing less often and turning the ball over with greater frequency. That's a bad thing.
USG %, 18.3, 22.0. Obviously, his usage percentage is up, which has resulted in all the stats that have preceded.

This is the only passage you really need to read to know what a retard the author is. 19 games.


Here's my hope. The Spurs are not doing this to pander to Kawhi's ego. They aren't doing this because they are trying to keep Kawhi and his agent happy so he'll sign next year. They are not sacrificing the team for the individual. This is not the result of Riley's "Disease of More."


1) Then why write the article?
2) It's literally impossible that he signs anywhere else unless the Spurs decide they don't want him.


Popovich is riding his young star early and often to take the load off his 'older than dirt' Big Three. At the same time, with so many early injuries to deal with, his load would have increased regardless. In addition, it's early in a long season and who cares about the record anyway? OKC has to throw a no-hitter the rest of the way to catch the Spurs and I don't think any other team in the West scares Pop.

Huge difference between false-humility downplaying your takes and just begging the question of why you wrote your stupid article to begin with. Also :lmao:lmao "his load would have increased regardless":lmao:lmao author displaying a child's grasp of the English language



No, although it'd be nice. My problem is that I love watching the Spurs offense flow. I like the ball to kick eight, nine and ten times. I even like it when they overpass and it results in a turnover. I like the motion, the unselfishness. Every time the offense stops so Kawhi can post up, a little part of my Spurs love dies. Hopefully, sample size and injury/age factors are to blame and this is not a long term plan, or even worse, a result of Kawhi's 'Disease of More.'

Oh I see. The legit counterpoint you made were a setup so you could say "but but but I like passing". This is embarrassing for PTR tbh. I haven't read them in a long time but this makes it look like a a forum for self-important reddit posts by people who watched the Mavs, Warriors, and Cavs game this season.

:bobotfw Fred Silva is Timvp's pen name

[lefty]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2014/12/4/7332397/the-disease-of-more-kawhi-leonard

This is an interesting article, even if written by a fan. It points out what many of us have noted, that running more plays through Leonard seems to be hurting our offense. The article is quite critical of Pop, Kawhi and Kawhi's agent.

To some degree I agree with his "on court" analysis, but disagree with the motives behind the changes. I think Pop is using the early season (as he always does) to experiment. And he's frankly seeing what Kawhi can do within the scope of the offense with the ball in his hands. He may be playing to Kawhi's desires for more shots, but that's Pop's job, to find out what works. I'm sure by April we'll have the free-wheeling offense back, but this is the time to find what have in Leonard.

The article, when talking about Kawhi's inefficiency, also ignores his illness to begin the season and his still cloudy vision.

Pop isn't stupid. He isn't going to turn Kawhi into Kobe/Melo with "a feed him the ball and get out of the way" design. At least, not when it matters. I do wonder, though, if Kawhi's expectations are realistic. As reserved as he is, he has made a few remarks about wanting to see the offense run more often through him. Hopefully the article is wrong about the "Disease of More."
http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww328/Ashiatsu/3509swyu37yu.gif

[admiralsnackbar]

Kawhi is being allowed to prove why he isn't a max player, while also being forced to play a greater role in the offense. Win/win.

[FireMicoHalili]

Another article from PtR regarding some numbers dipping for TP and TD (comes with age anyway): http://www.poundingtherock.com/2014/12/9/7355541/spurs-quarter-season-review-part-1

Some questions for serious STers:

1. How long til we can stop blaming Kawhi's conjunctivitis for his struggles? Do we disregard this earlier chunk of the season and regard it as an aberration? At which point do we decide his game is back to 'normal'? Love his energy and hustle but maybe some people are right: he may not be a Kobe-type iso player. His jumper, while smooth, still looks a wee bit stiff. He's also not that athletic; he gets by with his awesome wingspan. Is it worth sacrificing the motion offense for iso possessions? Might cost the Spurs some wins, and the West is top-heavy this year. HCA certainly a factor.
2. TP's decline due to old age? Or the fact that offense runs less through him this year?
3. Any thoughts on their collective shooting slump? Just less motivated this year?

[apalisoc_9]

Long time TP fans and TD fans just making articles because. they hate change.

^ awful article.

[FireMicoHalili]

Long time TP fans and TD fans just making articles because. they hate change.

^ awful article.
True bruh, no one likes biased takes from biased people.