One body identified in Mexico student massacre [Archive]

Winehole23

12-08-2014, 07:49 PM

Don't remember one.

Guess another group of dead Mexicans dying tragically in drug gang related violence didn't move the needle much.Something like 13,000 narco related murders in Mexico since 2006. I've heard it through the grapevine that the drug cartels launder their money in Houston and recruit soldiers in Texas prisons. Cartel profits and drug violence are exported from the US to Mexico, the reverse not nearly so much.

RandomGuy

12-09-2014, 01:25 PM

Something like 13,000 narco related murders in Mexico since 2006. I've heard it through the grapevine that the drug cartels launder their money in Houston and recruit soldiers in Texas prisons. Cartel profits and drug violence are exported from the US to Mexico, the reverse not nearly so much.

We are starting to export weed from Colorado to Mexico. We grow it far more potent than they do. American business people FTW.

ChumpDumper

12-09-2014, 01:32 PM

Perhaps the media fears finding another Eric Holder gun at the scene. Best to avoid that sticky topic, eh?This board isn't the media.

Besides, gunwalking started under the Bush administration.

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 01:42 PM

This board isn't the media.
Thank God! Although the media isn't much better.

My comment was related to the observation that events receiving a lot of media attention generally prompt a thread or two in here. When the media is quiet on a topic, many times, so is this forum.

Besides, gunwalking started under the Bush administration.
How many guns lost during the Bush administration turned up at the hundreds of murders of Mexican civilians and the murder of a US Border Patrol Agent?

ChumpDumper

12-09-2014, 01:44 PM

Thank God! Although the media isn't much better.

My comment was related to the observation that events receiving a lot of media attention generally prompt a thread or two in here. When the media is quiet on a topic, many times, so is this forum.Except the media has been reporting this quite well.

How many guns lost during the Bush administration turned up at the hundreds of murders of Mexican civilians and the murder of a US Border Patrol Agent?Who knows?

They weren't even tracked that well.

Are you saying that it's OK that hundreds of guns went missing in Mexico after the Bush administration let them go?

Just come right out and say you think it's OK.

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 01:53 PM

Except the media has been reporting this quite well.
Like I said, my comment was related to an observation about this forum. And, I disagree the media has given this the coverage it deserves.

Who knows?
I'm sure someone does. And, I'm equally sure if it were bad news for the Bush administration, this forum would have been all over it. That we don't know tells me there was a fundamental difference in the way the two administration approached their respective programs.

They weren't even tracked that well.
How do you know?

Are you saying that it's OK that hundreds of guns went missing in Mexico after the Bush administration let them go?
I'm saying that there are fundamental differences in the way the two administration ran the program, only one of which (that we know of) resulted in the weapons being found at hundreds of murder scenes and the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

Just come right out and say you think it's OK.
I think Obama's methods must have been fucked up.

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 01:55 PM

I don't understand how any person can believe in one American political party so much.

ChumpDumper

12-09-2014, 02:03 PM

Like I said, my comment was related to an observation about this forum. And, I disagree the media has given this the coverage it deserves.Give examples. Tell us all the media you monitor every day that you can make that claim.

I'm sure someone does. And, I'm equally sure if it were bad news for the Bush administration, this forum would have been all over it. That we don't know tells me there was a fundamental difference in the way the two administration approached their respective programs.Yes, the Bush administration was better at making the guns permanently disappear into the Mexican drug cartels. Good for your team!

How do you know?You just said we would know if they were found.

I'm saying that there are fundamental differences in the way the two administration ran the program, only one of which (that we know of) resulted in the weapons being found at hundreds of murder scenes and the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.You're saying it's better than the Bush administration permanently lost the guns to the Mexican drug cartels with no way to recover them. Good for your team!

I think Obama's methods must have been fucked up.I think Bush's were as well. You will never admit that. That is why you are a partisan hack.

lol "not a Republican"

ElNono

12-09-2014, 03:17 PM

I don't understand how any person can believe in one American political party so much.

it's bubba rabble-rousers, Corp-America, fucked unfuckable

vs

kenyan prez, fake long form, benghazi-gate, fast n furious-gate, gruber-gate

:lol

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 04:55 PM

I don't understand how any person can believe in one American political party so much.
I think you misunderstand my postion; it's that I believe in this President so little.

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 04:57 PM

I think you misunderstand my postion; it's that I believe in this President so little.

Oh fuck off, all you do is spout is Republican talking points and defend that party to the death. You're boutons.

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 05:05 PM

Oh fuck off, all you do is spout is Republican talking points and defend that party to the death. You're boutons.
This isn't true and we've gone over this before.

Y'all just never bring up topics on which we agree.

I vehemently disagreed with Bush's financial policies in the last year of his presidency. Totally fucked up in doing Obama a solid and releasing the TERP funds when he was a lame duck.

I think the War on Drugs is costing us in lives and treasure and should be abandoned.

I think we probably agree on the increasingly militaristic practices of the police -- mostly as it relates to their war on drugs and no knock warrants..

No, I'm not a shill for the Republicans or Bush, I just think you're wrong on the issues that I argue for.

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 05:10 PM

You're a complete shill for the Republicans, boutons. LOL at that faggot being up on Rushmore.

ElNono

12-09-2014, 05:33 PM

lol @ the "I'm not boutons" defense

ElNono

12-09-2014, 05:37 PM

BTW, back to the topic at hand, I think the kids are all dead... a terrible episode of narco-violence which hopefully will be a turning point for Mexico...

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 05:41 PM

BTW, back to the topic at hand, I think the kids are all dead... a terrible episode of narco-violence which hopefully will be a turning point for Mexico...
I agree.

And, it wasn't so much a "I'm not boutons" defense (because, really, who is?) but a "I'm not a Republican shill" defense. Just because someone won't dump on Republicans because others have a burr up their butt over something doesn't make them a shill. It's just that on the topics in question, the case has never been made.

ElNono

12-09-2014, 05:53 PM

You do come across as a red team shill, just as much as boutons comes across as a blue team shill.... it might be unintentional... but it is what it is...

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 06:24 PM

You do come across as a red team shill, just as much as boutons comes across as a blue team shill.... it might be unintentional... but it is what it is...
It's just because I refuse to jump on the BDS bandwagon in here.

ElNono

12-09-2014, 06:39 PM

I'm fairly sure boutons thinks he's fighting for something too...

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 06:52 PM

I'm fairly sure boutons thinks he's fighting for something too...
Maybe.

I guess I don't get what you're driving at.

If you want me to prove my anti-Bush or anti-Republican creds, pick a topic on which I disagree with them. But, the problem with that is, we agree, and the thread dies.

I don't know the differences between Fast and Furious and the Bush-era gunwalking programs but, we DO know which program resulted in guns being found at the scene of hundreds of Mexican murders and we DO know which program resulted in the death of a US Border Patrol agent. It's not enough to simply claim Bush did it too without explaining why Bush's program didn't result in similar problems.

And, this "torture" debate has been absolutely worn threadbare. The Bush administration went to extraordinary lengths to satisfy themselves that the techniques they were using were legal. They stand by that assessment. This report doesn't change any of that. It also doesn't help that the strongest critics were on-board with the Bush administration post-911 activities - both in passing the AUMF in Afghanisan and Iraq. Sorry, I have little sympathy for terrorists who endured some discomfort, mere days after over 3,000 innocent Americans died at their hands.

This "report" was authored completely by Democrats. It reaches a conclusion that is refuted by every CIA Director, include Obama's current DI; that the techniques did not result in actionable intelligence. To a one, they all say otherwise; that the enhanced interrogation techniques led to the location of OBL and that it saved lives and thwarted terrorist attacks.

Pick a topic over which I agree and we'll dispense with the kum-bah-yah in a very short thread.

Ask me about Bush approving the release of TARP funds a few months before he left office. Probably the worst fucking thing he did.

Ask me about Bush partnering with manslaughterer Teddy Kennedy on Education and I about vomit.

Ask me about the idiotic Republican War on Drugs and I don't think you'll find much difference in our position.

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 07:10 PM

I'm fairly sure boutons thinks he's fighting for something too...
Also, in my defense (over the comparison to boutons), I rarely resort to the spittle-flecked hot-keyed invectives boutons apparently has queued up for every response. Most of the time, I can't even understand what he's trying to say through all the nonsense. Can you?

ElNono

12-09-2014, 07:26 PM

You don't have to justify anything to me, tbh....

In fairness, boutons has also mentioned instances where he doesn't agree with Barry, but when you overlap on 98% of the party line, it's difficult not to call a spade a spade... I mean, baseline and me are far from the first guys to notice...

The thing with boutons is that invariably you already know what he's going to say or where he stands on pretty much anything.
It's boring, has as much redeemable value as watching MSNBC (or so I heard). Discerning what he writes is a mere formality in almost every case.

The thing is, you're basically the same on the other side of the spectrum. Replace MSNBC with Fox News and we basically have the same description.

I don't ignore posters though, I think once in a blue moon either you/boutons regurgitate a solid point made by somebody else, and that makes it worth it. So, it's a lot of noise, but it's not all bad.

IMO, obviously.

SupremeGuy

12-09-2014, 07:41 PM

ElNono

12-09-2014, 07:46 PM

It's crazy how much more dangerous Mexico has gotten in the last 20 years. I remember going over there as a kid and never having to worry about bullshit. It's so corrupt from top to bottom that I don't even think it's ever going to get any better until something drastic happens.

Never been, but I heard it's has beautiful places to visit. Unfortunately, like you said, I'm staying as far as possible until some of this stuff is dealt with.

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 07:49 PM

It's crazy how much more dangerous Mexico has gotten in the last 20 years. I remember going over there as a kid and never having to worry about bullshit. It's so corrupt from top to bottom that I don't even think it's ever going to get any better until something drastic happens.

I stopped going after I had two cops plant weed on me, arrest me, take me in an alley in the middle of some fucked up Mexican ghetto, and demand a bribe. Thought I was about to get beat down or worse tbh. Got let go when they only found $20 in my wallet (and not the $200 in my sock :lol)

SupremeGuy

12-09-2014, 07:52 PM

Yeah man, my Mom is from Monterrey and we would go often to visit family and stuff. Hell, even the border towns were cool to visit on the weekends. Cool little markets and shit. I'd run around with my cousins as little kids and we never worried about getting kidnapped or anything stupid. Now? Fuck that. I don't even go as an adult. When the peso devalued was around when everything went to shit. lol

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 07:55 PM

Never been, but I heard it's has beautiful places to visit. Unfortunately, like you said, I'm staying as far as possible until some of this stuff is dealt with.

Donkey show isn't bad tbh

SupremeGuy

12-09-2014, 07:56 PM

I stopped going after I had two cops plant weed on me, arrest me, take me in an alley in the middle of some fucked up Mexican ghetto, and demand a bribe. Thought I was about to get beat down or worse tbh. Got let go when they only found $20 in my wallet (and not the $200 in my sock :lol)I got stopped leaving a bar when I was younger, and I remember I had actually not drank much that night, like only 2 or 3 beers over a two hour span. Well a cop basically just pulls me over cause of my plates and was giving me shit but one of the friends I was with told the cops that she was pregnant with my kid lol and he actually let us go. The bullshit story strung at his heart strings :cry

SupremeGuy

12-09-2014, 07:58 PM

Donkey show isn't bad tbhFuck that, I never went to boys town or any of that. My friend Pete would always tell us stories of him haggling the price of head down to like 2 bucks. :lol

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 08:00 PM

I got stopped leaving a bar when I was younger, and I remember I had actually not drank much that night, like only 2 or 3 beers over a two hour span. Well a cop basically just pulls me over cause of my plates and was giving me shit but one of the friends I was with told the cops that she was pregnant with my kid lol and he actually let us go. The bullshit story strung at his heart strings :cry

Motherfuckers had drove me around in the paddywagon for an hour trying to scare me, and stopped and demanded bribes three different times. I was also handcuffed to some gangster in on the scam who told me "In Mexico ju don get no phone call; ju jus get a kick in the culo". Funniest part was when the gangster tried to cry to the cop and the cop told him $150 to get out. So at the next stop the Mexican handed him a roll of bills which was a $20 around some $1 bills and the cop let him go, as if to show how I could get out too. :lol I just pretended I didn't understand anything he was saying and their scam didn't work so well with the English speaking East LA cholo looking motherfucker set free and gone. :lol

baseline bum

12-09-2014, 08:04 PM

Fuck that, I never went to boys town or any of that. My friend Pete would always tell us stories of him haggling the price of head down to like 2 bucks. :lol

Did they give change if you only had twenties?

SupremeGuy

12-09-2014, 08:05 PM

I'll ask Pete next time I see him. lol

Th'Pusher

12-09-2014, 08:33 PM

This isn't true and we've gone over this before.

Y'all just never bring up topics on which we agree.

I vehemently disagreed with Bush's financial policies in the last year of his presidency. Totally fucked up in doing Obama a solid and releasing the TERP funds when he was a lame duck.

I think the War on Drugs is costing us in lives and treasure and should be abandoned.

I think we probably agree on the increasingly militaristic practices of the police -- mostly as it relates to their war on drugs and no knock warrants..

No, I'm not a shill for the Republicans or Bush, I just think you're wrong on the issues that I argue for.

How about you regurgitating that ridiculous bullshit from Ted Cruz on net neutrality when it was clear neither you, nor he, had any idea wtf you were talking about? That was party line talking point bullshit swallowed whole and regurgitated word for word.

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 09:13 PM

How about you regurgitating that ridiculous bullshit from Ted Cruz on net neutrality when it was clear neither you, nor he, had any idea wtf you were talking about? That was party line talking point bullshit swallowed whole and regurgitated word for word.
My agreement with Cruz related to his distrust that government won't fuck it up. I still hold that position.

Th'Pusher

12-09-2014, 09:22 PM

My agreement with Cruz related to his distrust that government won't fuck it up. I still hold that position.
His arguement was ridiculous and critically flawed while showing a complete lack of understanding of the issue. Does it bother you that Cruz received campaign contributions from Comcast and do you think that these contributions had anything to do with his completely illogical stance on "regulating the Internet"?

Yonivore

12-09-2014, 09:29 PM

His arguement was ridiculous and critically flawed while showing a complete lack of understanding of the issue. Does it bother you that Cruz received campaign contributions from Comcast and do you think that these contributions had anything to do with his completely illogical stance on "regulating the Internet"?
Uh, no?

Th'Pusher

12-09-2014, 09:47 PM

Uh, no?
If it ware Harry Reid or Diane Feinstein making Cruz' ridiculous argument while taking campaign contributions from Comcast would that bother you?

And to be clear, I'm not talking about the whole government fucks everything up argument. I'm referring to the fact that Cruz was unable to make the distinction between regulating the Internet and regulating access to the Internet, which, in this case, would be maintaining the status quo for all intents and purposes.

ChumpDumper

12-09-2014, 10:54 PM

Yoni still doesn't know that net neutrality is about.

Th'Pusher

12-09-2014, 10:57 PM

Yoni still doesn't know that net neutrality is about.

That's obvious. But he still maintains the party line which is why he's the definition of a party shill.

Winehole23

10-02-2015, 01:46 AM

Mexico based public announcements on coerced confessions:

The office of Mexico's federal attorney general determined that security forces tortured a key witness in the case of the missing 43 students before certifying his testimony and prosecuting him anyway, according to documents obtained by the Spanish-language news site Animal Político and published there Thursday (http://www.animalpolitico.com/2015/10/dictamen-de-pgr-revela-indicios-de-tortura-contra-detenido-clave-del-caso-ayotzinapa/).

When Mexican security forces first handed Patricio Reyes Landa Saldago over to the attorney general’s office to take his confession, a medical evaluation showed that he bore 72 wounds (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mexico-missing-students-killers_55f87b5ae4b0d6492d63484e), including scabs, bruising and red marks associated with electric shocks. In his testimony, Landa says he was tortured.

A separate evaluation, dated Dec. 31 and ordered by the attorney general's office to determine the origin of the wounds, concluded that Landa had in fact been tortured. Even so, then-Attorney General Jesús Murillo Karam continued to base his public statements about what happened to the missing students in large part on the apparently coerced confession, along with the testimony of three other accused gang members.

The report by Animal Político, which was based on documents obtained under Mexican transparency laws, further confirms the conclusions of a series of reports by investigative journalists and those of a panel of experts fielded by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights -- namely, that key witnesses in the investigation were tortured.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mexico-torture-witness-43-students_560dab24e4b0af3706e02d6e