ESPN released their first RPM ratings for the current season

[SpursFan86]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Don't think this data was available up until now. Here are some Spurs-related tidbits:

- Duncan is 5th overall (out of all positions) in RPM, and 2nd in DRPM (defensive RPM)

- Kawhi is 12th overall, and 1st among all SFs

- Parker isn't even in the top 50 among PGs...not particularly surprising considering the Spurs have done much better with him off the court (no, this isn't Parker hate...it's just a fact). Joseph is 26th.

- Danny Green is 3rd among SGs in both overall RPM and DRPM

- Manu is 10th among SGs

- And just because I know y'all will get a laugh: Kobe is 238th overall :lol

If you're unfamiliar with the stat, here's an article explaining it: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

It's obviously not flawless (no stat is), but it's one of the better ones out there IMO. Definitely better than PER or Win Shares.

[ElNono]

Amazing Gino can still produce at a top 30 rate at 37, tbh... same goes for Tim... just a testament to these guys...

[Malik Hairston]

RPM is decent, not really worth using in arguments or analysis IMO, but still better than defensive rating, win shares, etc, like OP said..

Not surprised that Parker ranks poorly, as he ranked poorly in virtually every advanced metric last year..the mainstream and casual fan hasn't noticed, but he's probably the 5th most important Spur, at this point, maybe even 6th IMO..

He's more of a luxury, at this point..

[spursparker9]

edit

[Russ]

Duncan is 5th overall (out of all positions) in RPM, and 2nd in DRPM (defensive RPM)

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times:

I wonder if this means Duncan makes the All Star team this year.

[KL2]

RPM is decent, not really worth using in arguments or analysis IMO, but still better than defensive rating, win shares, etc, like OP said..

Not surprised that Parker ranks poorly, as he ranked poorly in virtually every advanced metric last year..the mainstream and casual fan hasn't noticed, but he's probably the 5th most important Spur, at this point, maybe even 6th IMO..

He's more of a luxury, at this point..

This, Parker is expendable.

[RD2191]

I'm not here to talk automotive. Mmk

[Brunodf]

:tu

[Hoops Czar]

Malik should know right off the bat how meaningless these stats are. That no good, overrated, dumpster fire, Klay Thompson is #2. Go figure!!! 4th in Wins above replacement.

[jeebus]

rofl Ayres ranked at 350 and Daye ranked at 405.

[Robz4000]

rofl Ayres ranked at 350 and Daye ranked at 405.

Pop quiz hotshot! You're locked in a room with a Jefferson 'Pendergraph' Ayers and one Austin Daye. On a table in the middle of the room lies a Colt 45, but only one bullet is present. There are no windows and no one else is around for miles. There is a key hidden somewhere in the room but only one of the two know where it is. The oxygen levels in the room will gradually deplete over the coming hours. What is your first move?

[Hoops Czar]

#123 Ian Mahimni ahead of #134 Aron Baynes?

[jeebus]

Pop quiz hotshot! You're locked in a room with a Jefferson 'Pendergraph' Ayers and one Austin Daye. On a table in the middle of the room lies a Colt 45, but only one bullet is present. There are no windows and no one else is around for miles. There is a key hidden somewhere in the room but only one of the two know where it is. The oxygen levels in the room will gradually deplete over the coming hours. What is your first move?

Pistol whip both of them, lay them so their heads are side by side. Shoot one through the head so the bullet travels thru and kills the other. With both of them dead, that gives me more than enough oxygen to find the key, leave, find a computer, go to spurmtalk, post their death pictures, and be made a hero.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Pop quiz hotshot! You're locked in a room with a Jefferson 'Pendergraph' Ayers and one Austin Daye. On a table in the middle of the room lies a Colt 45, but only one bullet is present. There are no windows and no one else is around for miles. There is a key hidden somewhere in the room but only one of the two know where it is. The oxygen levels in the room will gradually deplete over the coming hours. What is your first move?

Tell them that whoever hands the key over first and kills the other, will get the last roster spot next season. Once there is only one standing, shoot him and take the key. Dance on the bodies waiving a spurs flag while guzzling tequila and wearing a sombrero. Opa!

http://gifyu.com/images/KawhiOPA_HEBcommercials.gif

[Robz4000]

Spurstalk delivers

[TampaDude]

Pistol whip both of them, lay them so their heads are side by side. Shoot one through the head so the bullet travels thru and kills the other. With both of them dead, that gives me more than enough oxygen to find the key, leave, find a computer, go to spurmtalk, post their death pictures, and be made a hero.

Winner!!!

[itsamanuthree]

Interesting stats! thanks

[100%duncan]

Pistol whip both of them, lay them so their heads are side by side. Shoot one through the head so the bullet travels thru and kills the other. With both of them dead, that gives me more than enough oxygen to find the key, leave, find a computer, go to spurmtalk, post their death pictures, and be made a hero.

I'd make them play 1 on 1 and then kill myself afterwards

[apalisoc_9]

Parker...:lmao

[pgardn]

We had no need for Parker last year.
Afterall, our toughest playoff series with Dallas, he did practically nothing.

We don't win the championship without Parker, this year or last year.
Jesus fn Christ...

We have two can openers off the dribble, and one is 37 years old.
Holy shit...

[Galileo]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Don't think this data was available up until now. Here are some Spurs-related tidbits:

- Duncan is 5th overall (out of all positions) in RPM, and 2nd in DRPM (defensive RPM)

- Kawhi is 12th overall, and 1st among all SFs

- Parker isn't even in the top 50 among PGs...not particularly surprising considering the Spurs have done much better with him off the court (no, this isn't Parker hate...it's just a fact). Joseph is 26th.

- Danny Green is 3rd among SGs in both overall RPM and DRPM

- Manu is 10th among SGs

- And just because I know y'all will get a laugh: Kobe is 238th overall :lol

If you're unfamiliar with the stat, here's an article explaining it: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

It's obviously not flawless (no stat is), but it's one of the better ones out there IMO. Definitely better than PER or Win Shares.

who comes up this stat crap? Next thing it will be best plus minus double double and one in road playoff win!
:hitit:

:frying:

:deadhorse

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241897&p=7715508#post7715508

:spless:

:huddle:

[Cloud786]

Pop quiz hotshot! You're locked in a room with a Jefferson 'Pendergraph' Ayers and one Austin Daye. On a table in the middle of the room lies a Colt 45, but only one bullet is present. There are no windows and no one else is around for miles. There is a key hidden somewhere in the room but only one of the two know where it is. The oxygen levels in the room will gradually deplete over the coming hours. What is your first move?

If Ayres has the key, I'd throw the gun at Ayres, he wouldn't be able to catch it and an accidental bullet would strike Daye. Ayres would then panic and take the key and make a break for it, but in that time I'd make a hoop out of Daye's corpse and put it on the table. Before Ayres runs, I'll tell him that I know where his dad is, and I'll tell him if he dunks it into Daye. As soon as he bricks and key ricochets to me, I'll go out, and right before I close and lock the door, I'll tell Ayres UH HUH! and he'll clap and suffocate.

If Daye has the key, I'd make him bench press the gun, he would drop it due to lack of a spotter, an accidental bullet would then strike Ayres, and Daye would panic, take the key, and make a run for it. In that time, I'd make a hoop out of Ayres' corpse, and before Daye leaves, I'd tell him that his fingerprints are on the gun, and he'll be framed for murder, but I'll be willing to put my prints on the gun if he can shoot a long distance shot into Ayres. As soon as he bricks and it ricochets into my hands, I'll go out and right before I lock the door, I'll tell Daye you can come if you promise to play defense. Once he admits he can't, I'll close the door and leave.

[Robz4000]

If Ayres has the key, I'd throw the gun at Ayres, he wouldn't be able to catch it and an accidental bullet would strike Daye. Ayres would then panic and take the key and make a break for it, but in that time I'd make a hoop out of Daye's corpse and put it on the table. Before Ayres runs, I'll tell him that I know where his dad is, and I'll tell him if he dunks it into Daye. As soon as he bricks and key ricochets to me, I'll go out, and right before I close and lock the door, I'll tell Ayres UH HUH! and he'll clap and suffocate.

If Daye has the key, I'd make him bench press the gun, he would drop it due to lack of a spotter, an accidental bullet would then strike Ayres, and Daye would panic, take the key, and make a run for it. In that time, I'd make a hoop out of Ayres' corpse, and before Daye leaves, I'd tell him that his fingerprints are on the gun, and he'll be framed for murder, but I'll be willing to put my prints on the gun if he can shoot a long distance shot into Ayres. As soon as he bricks and it ricochets into my hands, I'll go out and right before I lock the door, I'll tell Daye you can come if you promise to play defense. Once he admits he can't, I'll close the door and leave.


Spurstalk delivers

[apalisoc_9]

Tim

:worthy:

[Chinook]

Eh, this isn't the same as RAPM. It seems to be a new stat ESPN is trying to push. I'll have to see the formula before subscribing to it. ESPN likes to do this with stats, and most of them haven't really caught on yet.

[Mr Bones]

*

[Beaverfuzz]

Eh, this isn't the same as RAPM. It seems to be a new stat ESPN is trying to push. I'll have to see the formula before subscribing to it. ESPN likes to do this with stats, and most of them haven't really caught on yet.

Yep, this is a bullshit stat.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

No ESPN started with RAPM last season. RPM is their re-brand so to speak but it's the same guy:


RPM stats are provided by Jeremias Engelmann in consultation with Steve Ilardi. RPM is based on Engelmann's xRAPM (Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus). Play-by-play data provided by

Like all stats context is key and one stat shouldn't stand alone. Using several good ones combined with a solid eye-test is the best chance of a good picture.

Standing alone RPM like everything else standing alone will have some silly outliers in the form of some bad player rating incredible or a more or less poor one falsely showing up with the elite, but for the sake of argument standing alone I do think historically its the one stat that best reflect getting the top players that contribute the very most to winning rated the most right.

Tim and Manu have been crushing it consistently for years being among the very very best players in the league http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ .

Parker often when it comes to many advanced stats has also been hurt by not shooting threes. It's pretty gross though that this current season he is this low compared to many others.

It's still early though and many things will change. Some are way too high this early and some will make up ground.

[SupremeGuy]

So basically Tim is an immortal God, Kawhi is already the best SF in the league, and we're going to have to find a way to get Danny max money this off-season? And oh yeah, lol parker.

Does that sum it up?

[itsamanuthree]

The problem with this stat is that players in better teams are likely to get better +/- so it's not perfect... but then again, no stat is or will be, so I guess you could always use the argument "lol at this stat", because, yeah, sure, they are always a simplification of reality. What would be fair is to compare this stat with other stats and, in that sense, I think it's an improvement.

[SpursFan86]

Eh, this isn't the same as RAPM. It seems to be a new stat ESPN is trying to push. I'll have to see the formula before subscribing to it. ESPN likes to do this with stats, and most of them haven't really caught on yet.

I was sort of under the impression that it was essentially the same stat. From the ESPN article introducing it:

Real plus-minus (RPM) (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM) was developed by Jeremias Engelmann, formerly of the Phoenix Suns, in consultation with Steve Ilardi, University of Kansas psychology professor and former NBA consultant.

It follows the development of adjusted plus-minus (APM) by several analysts and regularized adjusted plus-minus (RAPM) by Joe Sill.
RPM reflects enhancements to RAPM by Engelmann, among them the use of Bayesian priors, aging curves, score of the game and extensive out-of-sample testing to improve RPM's predictive accuracy.

Engelmann was the guy who provided xRAPM stats (the ones people saw on the stats-for-the-nba website) prior IIRC. Like someone said above, I think ESPN just sort of rebranded it.

[Galileo]

what about platoon players who sub in on defense? Won't they be gyped?

[Pauleta14]

Spurstalk delivers

Indeed... :lol

Didn't see the "Parker is expandable" since George Hill sophomore year!!

[Twisted_Dawg]

Pop quiz hotshot! You're locked in a room with a Jefferson 'Pendergraph' Ayers and one Austin Daye. On a table in the middle of the room lies a Colt 45, but only one bullet is present. There are no windows and no one else is around for miles. There is a key hidden somewhere in the room but only one of the two know where it is. The oxygen levels in the room will gradually deplete over the coming hours. What is your first move?


Pistol whip both of them, lay them so their heads are side by side. Shoot one through the head so the bullet travels thru and kills the other. With both of them dead, that gives me more than enough oxygen to find the key, leave, find a computer, go to spurmtalk, post their death pictures, and be made a hero.


Tell them that whoever hands the key over first and kills the other, will get the last roster spot next season. Once there is only one standing, shoot him and take the key. Dance on the bodies waiving a spurs flag while guzzling tequila and wearing a sombrero. Opa!


If Ayres has the key, I'd throw the gun at Ayres, he wouldn't be able to catch it and an accidental bullet would strike Daye. Ayres would then panic and take the key and make a break for it, but in that time I'd make a hoop out of Daye's corpse and put it on the table. Before Ayres runs, I'll tell him that I know where his dad is, and I'll tell him if he dunks it into Daye. As soon as he bricks and key ricochets to me, I'll go out, and right before I close and lock the door, I'll tell Ayres UH HUH! and he'll clap and suffocate.

If Daye has the key, I'd make him bench press the gun, he would drop it due to lack of a spotter, an accidental bullet would then strike Ayres, and Daye would panic, take the key, and make a run for it. In that time, I'd make a hoop out of Ayres' corpse, and before Daye leaves, I'd tell him that his fingerprints are on the gun, and he'll be framed for murder, but I'll be willing to put my prints on the gun if he can shoot a long distance shot into Ayres. As soon as he bricks and it ricochets into my hands, I'll go out and right before I lock the door, I'll tell Daye you can come if you promise to play defense. Once he admits he can't, I'll close the door and leave.

We got some creative mother fuckers on this board! :toast

[Drom John]

ESPN seems to be updating PRM daily.

[Diego20]

Don't see some Parker suckers here.. I wonder why