The Politics of Katrina

[Nbadan]

There is a thread about the short and long term effects Katrina will have on future oil prices, which went up about a dime today across the country.

There is also a thread following the rapidly degenerating conditions in the New Orleans and lower Louisiana, Mississippi area.

...but has anyone ELSE noticed hints of racial bias reporting on some new stations....for instance..

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.cyn78.300805074130.photo01.photo.default-268x384.jpg

Two residents wade through (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1) chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana.(AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)

Compare and Contrast:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladm102.jpg

A young man walks through chest deep flood water (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530) after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Black or White, Isn't everyone just trying to survive? Shouldn't they relax 'borrowing laws', especially in Grocery stores in the area for everybody?

[SPARKY]

Good one.

[mookie2001]

exactly



you figure they would just drive their Tahoes somewhere

[Shelly]

That bread is worthless after being dragged throught that contaminated water.

[Nbadan]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/images/295_card_tells_bush.jpg

"Terrorists have just flown a plane into the other World Trade tower"

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/images/299_booker_classroom_closeup.jpg

--

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/images/295_card_tells_bush.jpg

"Mr. President, New Orleans is sinking and possibly lost"

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.capm10208301856.bush__capm102.jpg

[mookie2001]

doesnt he look like the greatest leader of all time?
so stong
a man of conviction

[Spurminator]

I hear he had prior warning that a Katrina was determined to strike New Orleans.

[mookie2001]

if only he could run in 08...
he could base his whole campaign on hurricane katrina

[Nbadan]

I hear he had prior warning that a Katrina was determined to strike New Orleans.

That's OK they'll just blame Clinton.

Meanwhile, the Singing cowboy is touring New O"leans, or what's let of it, on Friday

http://home.usit.net/~aeromancy/post/nerobush.jpg

[Jelly]

You guys are so out of control, so unhinged with your hatred for Bush that no one can take anything you say seriously and you do a disservice to all leftwing moonbats everywhere.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pretty pathetic, even for you Dan.

[Trainwreck2100]

we are facing a new enemy, an enemy that has many faces. This war won't end quickly but we must strike back. We didn't start this war by we will finish it.



DAMN YOU MOTHER NATURE!!!!

[scott]

I feel a pretty good point in the original post in this thread has been tarnished by Dan's propensity to post non-sequitous pictures of the President.

[Vashner]

Bush did it.. they just installed his Weather Machine at the ranch.

He was gonna make it rain on Cindy Sheehan but didn't want anyone to film the chrome beam when it comes out of it's underground bunker to fire.

[Nbadan]

I feel a pretty good point in the original post in this thread has been tarnished by Dan's propensity to post non-sequitous pictures of the President.

I think the Katrina thread in the Club covered the original point of this thread pretty completely. Besides, there are a lot of behind-the-scene politics that are going on right now as everyone tries to play the CYA game.

This thread will get plenty of action.

[Nbadan]

You guys are so out of control, so unhinged with your hatred for Bush that no one can take anything you say seriously and you do a disservice to all leftwing moonbats everywhere.

Common Jelly, we're just having a little fun. We could bore you with boring articles about how W cut funding for the New Orleans Army Corp Of Engineers (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367), Or how W cut ]Clinton's Emergency Mitigation Program ([url=http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4482567) that would have taken measures to minimize damage from this type of natural disaster in the New Orleans area.

We could also post you about how W cut funding for Hurricane and flood protection in the New Orleans area (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367) including a study that would have determined ways to protect the city from a CAT5 hurricane, but what's the point? You'll just say its left-wing bloggershere hysteria.

[Nbadan]

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin just told WWL TV in New Orleans that the project to fill the breach in the 17th St Canal flood wall with sandbags didn't fail -- the sandbags were never tried. Nagin suggested that, after repairing the breach had been made the top priority in discussions with state, federal and Orleans Parish Levee Board officials this morning, someone had apparently "reprioritized" the helicopter earmarked for the sandbag assignment. The result: unless somebody thinks of something in the next 12 to 15 hours, Nagin said, currently dry areas of New Orleans, including the French Quarter and the Garden District, will be inundated to a point three feet above sea level.

Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-shearer/this-really-just-in_b_6473.html)

Incompetance at the highest levels.

[j-6]

If Dubya can change the minds of Nagin and Blanco (both Demo's) about rebuilding on the current site, I'll change my admittedly low opinion of our Prez. I might even drive Yoni to Mt. Rushmore for the new face unveiling.

He'll have to buy the beer, though, if I have to spring for gas.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Incompetance at the highest levels.

Incompetence? Did you see the size of the hole of the levee? The sandbags weren't going to stop that.

Meanwhile, those choppers they diverted contributed to over 3000 people being plucked from the roofs of their homes and delivered to dry land.

Yeah, totally incompetent.

[Vashner]

It's the mayor.. he's on crack... first he wanted "attention and a national eye"..
Now he's lashing out at the military and stupid sandbags..

Water in volume is VERY powerfull... sandbags are not designed for mega breeches.

[Nbadan]

Even a cop joins in the looting
Mike Perlstein and Brian Thevenot
Staff writers


Law enforcement efforts to contain the emergency left by Katrina slipped into chaos in parts of New Orleans Tuesday with some police officers and firefighters joining looters in picking stores clean.

At the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, an initial effort to hand out provisions to stranded citizens quickly disintegrated into mass looting. Authorities at the scene said bedlam erupted after the giveaway was announced over the radio.

While many people carried out food and essential supplies, others cleared out jewelry racks and carted out computers, TVs and appliances on handtrucks.

Some officers joined in taking whatever they could, including one New Orleans cop who loaded a shopping cart with a compact computer and a 27-inch flat screen television.

...

“The police got all the best stuff. They’re crookeder than us,” one man said.

(more)

NOLA (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp)

[Useruser666]

This thread has long been flooded with irrational thoughts.

[Useruser666]

There is a thread about the short and long term effects Katrina will have on future oil prices, which went up about a dime today across the country.

There is also a thread following the rapidly degenerating conditions in the New Orleans and lower Louisiana, Mississippi area.

...but has anyone ELSE noticed hints of racial bias reporting on some new stations....for instance..

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.cyn78.300805074130.photo01.photo.default-268x384.jpg

Two residents wade through (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1) chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana. (AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)

Compare and Contrast

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladm102.jpg

A young man walks through chest deep flood water (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530) after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Black or White, Isn't everyone just trying to survive? Shouldn't they relax 'borrowing laws', especially in Grocery stores in the area for everybody?

There is no doubt in my mind that you have proven racial profiling has been committed here! :spin :blah :shootme :rolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

Why must there be a political angle to any of this? I'm not a Republican by any means, and I don't support George Bush in much, but this isn't a situation about political decision-making or finger pointing. The story is that cities like New Orleans, Biloxi, and Gulfport, and countless burgs between them, are devastated and facing months (if not years) of suffering. That's not a red state or a blue state story -- it has nothing to do with who is President. Political gainsaying at this time about this issue is just unseemly to me. We should be laser-focused on finding solutions to the problems that face the Gulf States, because those problems are already significant and they aren't resolving themselves.

end of rant.

[T Park]

NBADan= Robert F Kennedy?

[Jelly]

Why must there be a political angle to any of this? I'm not a Republican by any means, and I don't support George Bush in much, but this isn't a situation about political decision-making or finger pointing. The story is that cities like New Orleans, Biloxi, and Gulfport, and countless burgs between them, are devastated and facing months (if not years) of suffering. That's not a red state or a blue state story -- it has nothing to do with who is President. Political gainsaying at this time about this issue is just unseemly to me. We should be laser-focused on finding solutions to the problems that face the Gulf States, because those problems are already significant and they aren't resolving themselves.

end of rant.

well, this is Dan's thread, and sadly he is only able to see in red and blue.

[mookie2001]

why people scoff Dan so much

1. he right VERY often
2. he doesnt give bush oral sex
3. because he is nbadan and people say hes a crazy leftist lefty

[Useruser666]

why people scoff Dan so much

1. he right VERY often
2. he doesnt give bush oral sex
3. because he is nbadan and people say hes a crazy leftist lefty

The next post you make better claim that someone hacked your account and has been trying to make you look stupid.

[Spurminator]

fromwaydowntown came correct right there

[mookie2001]

you mean user

thats fine, call me a lefty leftist
when i get to where neocons give me no credibility just because they dont want to hear what im saying and because people say im a lefty leftist
it will prove my point

[Spurminator]

No, I meant FWD.

I was just a little late.

[Marcus Bryant]

Those captions were obviously GWB's fault.

[mookie2001]

Those captions were obviously GWB's fault.


There is a thread about the short and long term effects Katrina will have on future oil prices, which went up about a dime today across the country.

There is also a thread following the rapidly degenerating conditions in the New Orleans and lower Louisiana, Mississippi area.

...but has anyone ELSE noticed hints of racial bias reporting on some new stations....for instance..

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.cyn78.300805074130.photo01.photo.default-268x384.jpg

Two residents wade through (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1) chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana.(AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)

Compare and Contrast:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladm102.jpg

A young man walks through chest deep flood water (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530) after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Black or White, Isn't everyone just trying to survive? Shouldn't they relax 'borrowing laws', especially in Grocery stores in the area for everybody?

i cant believe Dan would suggest that!
what a leftyass leftist

[Marcus Bryant]

The concept of sarcasm is apparently lost on the young boy.

[mookie2001]

sorry, to obtain the the credibility you have earned maybe i should start listing the spurs starters and depth charts under contract in all my posts

[Marcus Bryant]

Weak. Even for you.

Maybe I should start going off on upper middle class white people and the cars they drive because I have a fixation driven by an inferiority complex. Then I'd be cool.

[mookie2001]

LOL
i never said anything about upper middle class white people asshole
all people that are rich dont drive tahoes and all tahoe drivers arent rich

[Useruser666]

you mean user

thats fine, call me a lefty leftist
when i get to where neocons give me no credibility just because they dont want to hear what im saying and because people say im a lefty leftist
it will prove my point

Did I say you were a "lefty leftist"? No.

Am I a neocon? No.

Is what you said plain stupid? Yes.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Dan is right? Ever?

Let me know when Dan's draft arrives.

[Nbadan]

:lol

Dan is right? Ever?

Let me know when Dan's draft arrives.


Making predictions of events is the easy part, but sometimes the timing gets thrown off by unforeseen circumstances. Take the bombing of Iran’s nuclear facilities for instance, this was one of the three predictions that I hesitated to make for 05 because the nomination of John Bolton to the US ambassador seat was a key to when these plans would be set in motion. Well, those plans were obviously delayed and now a new timeline has been set into motion. Do you see how circumstances remain the same but timing can fluctuate?

The draft will come, of that I am certain. When? I hate to say it but the key event is when we are attacked again, perhaps even when we attack Iran's nuclear facilities.

[Useruser666]

I predict tomorrow will be another day.

[Nbadan]

Anyway, back to the Politics of Katrina...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20050831/2005_08_31t140354_450x342_us_weather_katrina_bush. jpg

President George W. Bush peers out the cabin window of Air Force One as he surveys the damage along the Gulf Coast on August 31, 2005. Air Force One made an unprecedented low level flight over the destruction areas caused by hurricane Katrina. (Mannie Garcia/Reuters) Email Photo Print Photo

That's right Georgie, lean forward more and pretend you really give a shit.

[SWC Bonfire]

That's right Georgie, lean forward more and pretend you really give a shit.

:rolleyes

[Nbadan]

Here's what W saw..

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050831/capt.wx10708311825.bush_hurricane_katrina_wx107.jp g

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050831/capt.wx10608311810.bush_katrina_wx106.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050831/capt.sge.dml29.310805175931.photo00.photo.default-384x248.jpg

[Useruser666]

That's right Dan, pretend you aren't blinded by hate.

[Spurminator]

This is the "Air America" of Katrina discussion threads.

[FromWayDowntown]

Anyway, back to the Politics of Katrina...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20050831/2005_08_31t140354_450x342_us_weather_katrina_bush. jpg

President George W. Bush peers out the cabin window of Air Force One as he surveys the damage along the Gulf Coast on August 31, 2005. Air Force One made an unprecedented low level flight over the destruction areas caused by hurricane Katrina. (Mannie Garcia/Reuters) Email Photo Print Photo

That's right Georgie, lean forward more and pretend you really give a shit.

My goodness. What do you want? Does he need to be inconsolably crying to prove that he's concerned?

Like I say, I don't support the man one bit. But, I suspect he's concerned about what's going on in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida the same way that I'm concerned about it -- which is to say, significantly. I mean, for crissakes, the caption itself says that AF1 made an unprecedented low-level flight. I suspect that Mr. Bush may have played some part in ordering that to happen. Perhaps I am wrong. Nevertheless, this shouldn't be (and, in fact, isn't) a political moment. This is about understanding what has happened so that appropriate decisions can be made about what should be done. That has nothing to do with the ideology of the President, whether you think he does not wrong or abhor him and his policies.

In terms of the timing of the President's concern (since I suspect that's what's coming next), I don't think there's an issue there, either. The President was on the air on Sunday afternoon and evening, extolling people in that part of the country to heed the advice of local officials and evacuate. He also authorized declarations of emergency for many Louisiana Parishes before Katrina made landfall. He may not have responded directly on Monday or even Tuesday morning, but most of the reporting that I saw on Monday afternoon and Tuesday morning hadn't yet reached the issue of the overwhelming floods in New Orleans and the apocalyptic damage along the Mississippi gulf. In fact, on Monday night, many seemed to think that New Orleans had dodged the proverbial bullet. As that has turned out to be incorrect -- as the situation has become more grave -- the federal government's response has been appropriate.

Take a step back and gain some perspective. This is a catostropic time for a whole lot of people who are too preoccupied with trying to put their lives back together to give one thought to politics. I think we should indulge that way of thinking for a little while, rather than trying to make political hay on the backs of so many unfortunate souls.

The media story that started this thread was worth investigating, but it has nothing to do with the White House or the government's response to the tragedy. That has everything to do with the likelihood of latent racism in the media. That's not a question of governmental politics or White House policy-making; it's a question of the judgment exercised by the media.

[Nbadan]

That's right Dan, pretend you aren't blinded by hate.

I don't hate anyone, let alone George Bush. He is only a facilitator for what is happening to us politically, economically, socially, the real problem is really within each of us. A great man once said, "You may not care about politics, but be certain that politics will care about you".

[SWC Bonfire]

Either you are with us or you are with the hurricanes, Nbadan.

[Nbadan]

My goodness. What do you want? Does he need to be inconsolably crying to prove that he's concerned?

Like I say, I don't support the man one bit. But, I suspect he's concerned about what's going on in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida the same way that I'm concerned about it -- which is to say, significantly. I mean, for crissakes, the caption itself says that AF1 made an unprecedented low-level flight. I suspect that Mr. Bush may have played some part in ordering that to happen. Perhaps I am wrong. Nevertheless, this shouldn't be (and, in fact, isn't) a political moment. This is about understanding what has happened so that appropriate decisions can be made about what should be done. That has nothing to do with the ideology of the President, whether you think he does not wrong or abhor him and his policies.

So the extent of W's public concern the last two days has been a 2 sentence mention during a photo-opt and having his pilot drop his luxurious AF1 from 30,000 to 20,000 feet so he could get a good look-see, and you find that to be adequate leadership in this time of crisis?

[FromWayDowntown]

So the extent of W's public concern the last two days has been a 2 sentence mention during a photo-opt and having his pilot drop his luxurious AF1 from 30,000 to 20,000 feet so he could get a good look-see, and you find that to be adequate leadership in this time of crisis?

First of all, you don't know that he hasn't been communicating with people who are more closely-involved in the crisis or ordering the mobilization of whatever assistance he can.

But besides that, what should he do? What leadership should he be providing? You don't like a two sentence mention; well, would a 30 minute television speech be better? I don't see how, since it's not like those who are most immediately affected by the circumstances (people who won't have power for weeks, or perhaps months) are going to see or hear anything the President does for some time. Should he don scuba equipment and swim down Canal Street? That would be asinine. Should he go to the Superdome and visit with displaced families? Why, when the structure is in enough disrepair to send those very families scrambling to Houston?

I just don't see what more the man is supposed to do, and I don't see why my friends on the Left have chosen to see this as an opportunity to politicize an inherently non-political occurrence. I don't support this President, but this isn't his mess.

Trying to make immediate political gains on the backs of suffering people is just offensive.

[Spurminator]

The next thing he does do will be shrugged off as a photo op anyway.

[Marcus Bryant]

What Bush apparently needed to do is be dropped into a flooded New Orleans neighborhood, walk on the water and then command the waters to part and lead his people to the promised land (or Baton Rouge, as it were). When they reach it, then W will have to feed the masses with five loaves of bread (whole wheat, not that white shit) and a couple of smoked Atlantic salmon.

Or perhaps we can regard Nbadan as perhaps the most entertaining crackpot the internets have ever seen.

[j-6]

So the extent of W's public concern the last two days has been a 2 sentence mention during a photo-opt and having his pilot drop his luxurious AF1 from 30,000 to 20,000 feet so he could get a good look-see, and you find that to be adequate leadership in this time of crisis?

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl083105bushdamage.114d6821.html

WASHINGTON -- President Bush is back at the White House, after getting a first-hand view of some of the devastation from Hurricane Katrina.

As Air Force One carried Bush back from his Texas ranch, it flew over New Orleans at about 2,500 feet, and then descended to about 1,700 feet over Mississippi. Bush peered through a window at the scene below. Both of his fists were clenched, and his face was grim.

A spokesman later quoted him as saying, "It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground."

At one point, the president saw a hard-hit coastal community and told his staff, "It's totally wiped out."

Bush is scheduled to make public remarks about the hurricane later today in the Rose Garden. Before then, he's meeting with a White House task force on recovery efforts.

Bush is expected to visit the region by week's end. The White House is working to make sure the visit won't disrupt the relief efforts.

[Useruser666]

Dan, without Bush, your life would be meaningless.

[Nbadan]

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/050830/wasserman.gif

[Jelly]

Dan, the president is about to speak!! You can start jerking off now.

[Nbadan]

Dan, the president is about to speak!! You can start jerking off now.

:rolleyes

Yeah, yeah, all the criticism is just a liberal conspiracy to make W look bad in the face of this human tragedy.


Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? 'Times-Picayune' Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues
August 30, 2005

PHILADELPHIA - Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city, the waters may still keep rising in New Orleans late on Tuesday. That's because Lake Pontchartrain continues to pour through a two-block-long break in the main levee, near the city's 17th Street Canal. With much of the Crescent City some 10 feet below sea level, the rising tide may not stop until it's level with the massive lake.

New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

more...

Editor and Publisher (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313)

But of course, none of this matters because its crying over spilt milk. So what if valuable money that could have lessened the severity of this tragedy is going to Iraq, it's all water under the bridge now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ah yes, it's Bush's fault.

Since Katrina is drawing attention away from the situation in Iraq, Bush is responsible for the 'cane too.

[mookie2001]

quit being so sarcastic dude

get your own sitcom

[Nbadan]

One of the television anchors just summarized the big picture W and the other leaders in Washington. Here are some of his comments, and some of my own.

In the next few hours thousands more are going to die due to rising flood waters from the breached levees, and due to being trapped in attics without food, water and in some cases air.

Over 1 million people are now refugees --homeless, without jobs, without means to provide for their subsistence, and likely to be wandering the South for months.

Huge numbers of uninsured people seeking medical care for the inevitable health crisis that is coming. Hundreds of thousands will lose their medical health insurance because they lost their jobs. Disease will follow those exposed to the toxic and contaminated floodwaters.

Tens of thousands of displaced children will need to enroll in new school districts.

These people have lost everything except their debt which will follow them wherever they go. They have houses to pay for which no longer exist. Flood damage is likely not covered by most homeowners policies, which means no homeowners insurance proceeds to pay off the mortgage debt still owing. Same with car loans. Not to mention credit card debt. Bankruptcy is likely the only choice for the great majority who have nothing.

Access to bank accounts will be delayed. Mail will pile up somewhere outside the city, and take months to deliver.

The mental health of a million people who will examine what could have been done and what was done, what was communicated by their government officials and what was not disclosed.

Huge numbers of deaths, and the burying of bodies without identification since there is no way to preserve them and stop the spread of disease. If you lost everything, how can you pay the funeral and burial costs -- especially when they cannot be buried in the NO area because of standing water?

AND IT ALL WILL AFFECT EVERY CITIZEN IN THIS COUNTRY.

There will be gasoline shortages. Commerce travelling up and down the Mississipi River will be affected.

Cities and local governments will have to accomodate these homeless at a time they are already stretched to the limit.

Interest rates will go up on everything as a result of loss of collateral assets and defaults on payment of outstanding loans.

The $26 billion quoted as insurance costs is substantially less than the real costs from loss of homes and infrastructure which were uninsured. Add in deductibles and copays of 25% or more where there is insurance coverage.

None of this even takes into account the cost of rebuilding NO and restoring essential services of electricity, gas, water, sewer, and levees.

THERE IS A REAL QUESTION WHETHER NEW ORLEANS WILL BE REBUILT.

NO, it is a regional disaster covering hundreds of miles of LA, MISS, ALA and FLA before that -- all competing for available government aid, which is already limited and the hurrican season has just began.

That is the extent that this will affect EVERYONE and why we are all looking for proactive leadership from our President and his staff.

[Vashner]

Chill the fuck out man... lay the politics aside for a few minutes.. your choking on your own hate. They wanted to use the choppers to rescue people first...

They had the army core looking at it. Listen fast and hard water is a beast.. it will rip your shit up... it's not like plugging a hole it's a big project.

[MannyIsGod]

I really fucking hate those of you that are such idiots that you force people like FWD to defend Bush.

[JoeChalupa]

I heard some guy on the radio say today that "whom ever rebuilds the south will win in '08."

Any truth to that you think?

[FromWayDowntown]

I heard some guy on the radio say today that "whom ever rebuilds the south will win in '08."

Any truth to that you think?

I don't understand why, two days after this tragic occurrence, people are already thinking in those terms.

Rebuilding the South isn't about Democrats or Republicans or Progressives or Conservatives or Libertarians or Communists. It's about Americans coming together in a time of crisis to help those who are in grave need. We all win if the South is rebuilt; red states and blue states alike. I doubt that many in Louisiana, Mississippi, or Alabama are terribly concerned with the outcome of an election that is still 3 years away.

This isn't about the President and it isn't about domestic policy. This is about the worst hurricane disaster in the history of the United States -- no change in federal policy would have limited the damage that Katrina did.

It's not a political issue, no matter how many people try to spin it that way. Those who try to make this about politics have completely lost perspective on what's really important to the people in this country.

[Useruser666]

I really fucking hate those of you that are such idiots that you force people like FWD to defend Bush.

:lol

[GopherSA]

how W cut ]Clinton's Emergency Mitigation Program ([url=http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4482567) that would have taken measures to minimize damage from this type of natural disaster in the New Orleans area.



Leave it to the forum's resident leftist nutjob to quote an article from the highly intelligent discussions at DU.

Sad...so sad...tinfoil hat getting loose, Dan?

[Vashner]

"Need some wood"?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

how W cut ]Clinton's Emergency Mitigation Program that would have taken measures to minimize damage from this type of natural disaster in the New Orleans area.

Dude, it's taken decades to build up "global warming." And Bush is somehow supposed to snap his fingers and fix it all in two terms? That's some good crack you're smoking.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

There is no doubt in my mind that you have proven racial profiling has been committed here! :spin :blah :shootme :rolleyes

so it hasn't been proven that you're a smug anglo-saxan who is blind to obvious racism

this thread started by NBADan posting some very obvious 'blips' in the media


just because he puts his own opinion on it, and mookie talks shit to the first blatantly conservative post doesn't mean that the entire 'lefty left liberal' world is trying to focus on side shit like this, and im pretty sure dan and mookie didn't want to start that either

sometimes i feel like im the only sane person in the world. Does that make me crazy?
Why is it i see the same pattern every fucking god damn time..on radio, tv, internet, anything

a "liberal" mentions something, thinks it may be of importance (yes nbadan put in his own opinion with the bush picture/captions, yes mookie may have talked shit about Bush).......but why is it the "conservatives" focus on this instead of the original topic mentioned

why keep focusing on why 'lefty left liberals' are wrong instead of addressing the fucking issue...you make side bull shit issues over stuff that was bull shit to begin with

LETS MAKE IT FUCKING SIMPLE

Yes or No, what NBADan originally posted about is obvious racism


i dont want to hear about how left is wrong or how we should be focusing on the tragedy that happened (no fucking shit)

just because this tragedy happened doesn't mean we need to turn a blind eye on racism

and just because someone points out racism doesn't mean they want to start a fucking Verbal War about it, nor does it mean they want Racism to be the central issue about Katrina

God forbid a fucking American step out of his 'equal' world and admit "yes this is bull shit, the media sucks"


Yes or No, what NBADan originally posted about is obvious racism
Yes or No, what NBADan originally posted about is obvious racism
Yes or No, what NBADan originally posted about is obvious racism
Yes or No, what NBADan originally posted about is obvious racism


a single word response would give us all more of a clue about you than the bull shit all of you are spewing the past 3 pages

i'll start


YES

[Clandestino]

when minorities stop crying about racism they will finally rise up..

[Nbadan]

Mayor blasts failure to patch levee breaches
Wednesday, August 31, 2005; Posted: 7:21 a.m. EDT (11:21 GMT)

(snip)

According to the mayor, Black Hawk helicopters were scheduled to pick up and drop massive 3,000-pound sandbags in the 17th Street Canal breach, but were diverted on rescue missions. Nagin said neglecting to fix the problem has set the city behind by at least a month.

"I had laid out like an eight-week to ten-week timeline where we could get the city back in semblance of order. It's probably been pushed back another four weeks as a result of this," Nagin said.

"That four weeks is going to stop all commerce in the city of New Orleans. It also impacts the nation, because no domestic oil production will happen in southeast Louisiana."

Nagin said he expects relief efforts in the city to improve as New Orleans, the National Guard and FEMA combine their command centers for better communication, followup and accountability.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.levees/index.html)

FEMA is a real mess, both from cut funds and from the fallout from a Bolton clone, Albaugh, being sent in by the Bush Administration. He was so insanely abusive and disruptive, many of the career FEMA management personnel left. The disastrously mismanaged mission in New Orleans has cost lives and according to Mayor Nagin, set back by a month the schedule for reopening New Orleans. Here's a post on the Bolton Clone dispatched to FEMA:


This man has a truly violent temper and short trigger to go with it. At one of his first meetings with career FEMA high level staff, one woman who was called on to make a report started out by introducing herself to Albaugh with her name and title. He went ballistic, screaming and raging - DID SHE THINK HE DIDN'T KNOW WHO SHE WAS?!?!?!? HOW DARE SHE PRESUME SUCH A THING??? . . .yada, yada, yada along the same line for minutes to the dead silence of everyone else in the room who had never seen such a display of temper. In other words, someone following standard business etiquette was screamed at and berated in front of her peers.

This was typical behavior for Albaugh, and one result was that many, many of the top level FEMA people left for other jobs or took early retirement because Albaugh wouldn't allow them to do the jobs they were trained to do. This was a tremendous loss of institutional knowledge for the relatively small federal agency. Albaugh hated being at FEMA and left after about a year. Although he had zip experience with disaster relief or any kind of government/public service before his explosive period with FEMA, when he left there he started a very high priced consulting firm on counter-terrorism.

Bush initially put Albaugh in place to gut FEMA - I mean why should all that federal money go to people in trouble and need through some natural disaster. Bush's attitude was that if you weren't wealthy enough to private pay someone to help you handle a disaster, you deserved whatever befell you. Anyway, when 9/11 occurred, he couldn't outwardly gut FEMA, but he pretty much emasculated it by putting it under DHS.

[FromWayDowntown]

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.levees/index.html)

FEMA is a real mess, both from cut funds and from the fallout from a Bolton clone, Albaugh, being sent in by the Bush Administration. He was so insanely abusive and disruptive, many of the career FEMA management personnel left. The disastrously mismanaged mission in New Orleans has cost lives and according to Mayor Nagin, set back by a month the schedule for reopening New Orleans. Here's a post on the Bolton Clone dispatched to FEMA:

Keep focusing on yesterday's problems. Whatever you do, don't tax yourself with anything that is REALLY significant at this point.

If there's a chance to keep throwing bombs, don't miss it.

Bashing the President and the Administration is FAR more important than dealing with the problems of Ryan Samuels, the man I just saw sobbing openly on CNN, extolling people to help him find his extended familiy. Pillorying the President for some minor political gain (if any) is more useful right now than offering whatever help you can (monetary or physical) to deal with the true human problems that exist.

For crissakes, we're in monsterous trouble if politics is more concerned with incremental, rhetorical gains earned by finger-pointing and criticism than with trying to actually solve the problems that exist in a time of crisis.

[whottt]

FWDT...Welcome to the reality of the modern Democratic Party. I give it 6 months till you are separating it from yourself totally...if you don't buy into the rampant whacko politicizing you'll soon be getting the neocon label.

[SWC Bonfire]

How long will it be until the newest Democratic poster child (Hillary won't do it again, she's trying to appear "moderate") holds up a newspaper in Congress with the Headline "Bush Knew" (about the hurricane, yet did nothing to stop it).

[FromWayDowntown]

FWDT...Welcome to the reality of the modern Democratic Party. I give it 6 months till you are separating it from yourself totally...if you don't buy into the rampant whacko politicizing you'll soon be getting the neocon label.

See, whottt -- even you can't resist it. This isn't about whose right and whose wrong; it's not about whose side I'm on or whose side anyone else is on. It's about recognizing what's going on and responding to that. It's about keeping things in perspective. Applying any kind of political overlay to this situation, in my opinion, is demonstrative of an utter lack of meaningful perspective.

[whottt]

Applying any kind of political overlay to this situation, in my opinion, is demonstrative of an utter lack of meaningful perspective.

Agree 100%...and as soon as the Democrats stop doing that, the better.

[FromWayDowntown]

Agree 100%...and as soon as the Democrats stop doing that, the better.

Partisan bashing, however, is terribly helpful right now. :rolleyes

Look, I'm adamant about this because I've seen evidence of both sides politicizing this tragedy, and I find it shameful, regardless of its source.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

God forbid a fucking American step out of his 'equal' world and admit "yes this is bull shit, the media sucks"

Yeah, but when we were saying the media sucks for their skewed reporting on Iraq, we were just "defending Bush."

Look, it's the media playbook - blood and misery sells. Period.



"I had laid out like an eight-week to ten-week timeline where we could get the city back in semblance of order. It's probably been pushed back another four weeks as a result of this," Nagin said.

"That four weeks is going to stop all commerce in the city of New Orleans. It also impacts the nation, because no domestic oil production will happen in southeast Louisiana."

Give me a break. If Nagel really thought he was going to have his city's economy back up in 8 weeks he was either smoking something or getting some really bad advice.

No one wants to come to a war zone, which is essentially what NO is. Even before the fatal 17th Street canal breach, 40% of their city was underwater, I-10 is out in several places, etc.

He's impressed me for a leader for the most part, but I think he was either misquoted or lashed out due to lack of sleep.

But if he really meant what he said, I think you've got to say it's apparent he doesn't have appropriate perspective for what's happened to his city.

[spurster]

It seems that keeping New Orleans unsafe has been a continuing policy. There is a lot of blame to go around.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/09/01/us_earlier_rebuffed_louisiana_on_aid

AN ERODING BARRIER
US earlier rebuffed Louisiana on aid
Plan to help fund coastline project was cut from bill

By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff | September 1, 2005

WASHINGTON -- As recently as this summer, Louisiana pleaded for federal help to protect the state's rapidly eroding coastline -- a key natural defense against floods and major storms like Hurricane Katrina -- but the state was rebuffed by an administration and a Congress bent on budget-cutting and reluctant to pay for expensive preventative measures, according to congressional staff and budget-watchers.

Cajun State lawmakers, worried that a single powerful hurricane would do even more damage to its coast, wanted a provision in the massive federal energy bill that would give Louisiana a share of profits from offshore oil drilling. The plan would pour an estimated $1 billion a year into the state's coffers, money it would use to build up its natural barriers against flood waters from a hurricane -- a project lawmakers estimate would cost up to $14 billion over 10 years.

But the idea was slashed from the energy bill, which had been criticized for being packed with local pork projects like a $1.1 billion nuclear reactor for Idaho and a multimillion-dollar coal plant for Alaska. Previous attempts to get federal funds for the Louisiana coastal project had been rejected over the course of decades.

Now, lawmakers and disaster planning specialists say, Congress will pay dearly to rebuild the region after Katrina, an effort that could cost at least $25 billion.

...

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

you guys are all busters and hoes

[Marcus Bryant]

You can go back to the 19th century if you want to start the blame game.

[Nbadan]

Keep focusing on yesterday's problems. Whatever you do, don't tax yourself with anything that is REALLY significant at this point.

If there's a chance to keep throwing bombs, don't miss it.

Yeah, no water, no power, no food, no sanitation for three days. Three days!!

That's what's really important, right?

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, no water, no power, no food, no sanitation for three days. Three days!!

That's what's really important, right?

Those are big problems. I've advocated that we focus on those issues, not on pointing fingers at President Bush for not maintaining funding for some prophylactic project in the near past. What's done is done. Solve the immediate problems and THEN politicos can start worrying about whose to blame.

Go to a shelter, any shelter, and ask if the refugees there care about any of the political ramifications of Katrina. Concerns about blaming federal, state, or local officials right now evidence an utter lack of perspective.

[Spurminator]

Go to a shelter, any shelter, and ask if the refugees there care about any of the political ramifications of Katrina.

Sadly, while they may not care at this point, I would bet that it would not be difficult at all to exploit their suffering for partisan political purposes.

[FromWayDowntown]

Sadly, while they may not care at this point, I would bet that it would not be difficult at all to exploit their suffering for partisan political purposes.

And that, spurm is precisely my point: those who seek to gain political advantage out of such misfortune have forsaken their humanity for marginal amounts of political power. If you're willing to exploit that kind of suffering for your own political (or social) benefit, you lack any real compassion.

[mookie2001]

how long do you think before Bush hugs a crying victim and a photos snapped?

[Nbadan]

And that, spurm is precisely my point: those who seek to gain political advantage out of such misfortune have forsaken their humanity for marginal amounts of political power. If you're willing to exploit that kind of suffering for your own political (or social) benefit, you lack any real compassion.

Alright FWD we get your point. It's a very difficult time for anyone who is paying attention. There is a very poignant thread in the Club and even a thread in this forum which has seem little action called Hurricane Katrina which are meant for the purpose of talking about the human tragedy this is going on in NO.

This thread is called the 'Politics of Katrina' for a reason. This is a Political Forum.

[FromWayDowntown]

Alright FWD we get your point. It's a very difficult time for anyone who is paying attention. There is a very poignant thread in the Club and even a thread in this forum which has seem little action called Hurricane Katrina which are meant for the purpose of talking about the human tragedy this is going on in NO.

This thread is called the 'Politics of Katrina' for a reason. This is a Political Forum.

And my point, DAN, is that there shouldn't be any "Politics of Katrina." Hence my repeated posts to that effect.

Are you this forum's Hall Monitor or something. I'm on point here, even if you dislike what I'm saying.

[Useruser666]

Point missed.......

[mookie2001]

sorry but politics are going to have a lot to do with this bullshit
whether you like it or not

[FromWayDowntown]

sorry but politics are going to have a lot to do with this bullshit
whether you like it or not

Well, rather than sit back and take what you deem inevitable, I'm at least going to speak my mind about people turning tragedy into some political event.

[mookie2001]

...like politicians

[Nbadan]

Well, rather than sit back and take what you deem inevitable, I'm at least going to speak my mind about people turning tragedy into some political event.

Look at the tragedy that is going on in NO. Some parts of the disaster area haven't been touched in 3 days. These people aren't being prompted on what to say. Where is the heavy military presence? Where are the air-drops of drinking waters? Food? Medicine?

The only people who don't want to politicize this issue are conservatives because then we have to focus on how bad FEMA and HLS are bungling up the recovery and rescue efforts.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look at the tragedy that is going on in NO. Some parts of the disaster area haven't been touched in 3 days. These people aren't being prompted on what to say. Where is the heavy military presence? Where are the air-drops of drinking waters? Food? Medicine?

The only people who don't want to politicize this issue are conservatives because then we have to focus on how bad FEMA and HLS are bungling up the recovery and rescue efforts.


Apparently FWD doesn't want to politicize it. Does that make him a "conservative"?

[Nbadan]

Apparently FWD doesn't want to politicize it. Does that make him a "conservative"?

FWD is doing what he thinks is right. Nothing wrong with that, but when you have Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity saying that this tragedy is being politicized by the left - that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

What is being politicized is the lack of approprite response by our government in this national tragedy. Think of it what you will, but look at what FEMA and HSC reps are saying and ask yourself if it jives with what you are seeing on the ground.

[Useruser666]

Point missed.........

[Cant_Be_Faded]

FWD is doing what he thinks is right. Nothing wrong with that, but when you have Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity saying that this tragedy is being politicized by the left - that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

What is being politicized is the lack of approprite response by our government in this national tragedy. Think of it what you will, but look at what FEMA and HSC reps are saying and ask yourself if it jives with what you are seeing on the ground.



Talk all the shit about NBADAn and his 'propoganda' but this is a solid post.

I listened to Rush 2 days ago, for 1 hour, and the only thing he kept saying, the only fucking thing he kept going on about was
"How the people on the LEFT are so wrong for politicizing the disaster, those people on the LEFT are so wrong, how can they be so selfish to turn a disaster into political gain, listen viewers, these people on the LEFT are heartless"

pot calling the kettle black indeed, its fucking ludacris

[Spurminator]

How is


"How the people on the LEFT are so wrong for politicizing the disaster, those people on the LEFT are so wrong, how can they be so selfish to turn a disaster into political gain, listen viewers, these people on the LEFT are heartless"

any different from


The only people who don't want to politicize this issue are conservatives

??

Plenty of pots and kettles to go around.

[Useruser666]

pot calling the kettle black indeed, its fucking ludacris

http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2003/2003-10/06-ludacris-music.jpg

[Dos]

leave it to the liberals to be the first bitch about anything that happens!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

How is



any different from



??

Plenty of pots and kettles to go around.

its not!

thats my whole point Mr. Astute

[Spurminator]

Talk all the shit about NBADAn and his 'propoganda' but this is a solid post.

[Hook Dem]

Spurminator has made excellent posts and Dan could learn something. This is not the time for politics.

[cherylsteele]

So the extent of W's public concern the last two days has been a 2 sentence mention during a photo-opt and having his pilot drop his luxurious AF1 from 30,000 to 20,000 feet so he could get a good look-see, and you find that to be adequate leadership in this time of crisis?


Correct me if I am wrong but Bush issued a a state of emergency BEFORE the hurricane even hit. In fact it was 2 days before it made landfall.

I am not a Bush backer by any means....but now is not the time to debate this. First you give the relief needed to the area for a sense of normal, then debate the compententcy of Bush.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It is politics to turn this into a he said she said youre fault my fault thing

but its not politics to point out injustice

and it never fucking will be

yet it seems the majority of this thread agrees that we should ignore racism because racism doesn't really exist/nbadan posts propaganda/we can't take faded's sarcasm/im too conservative to be conservative

[Spurminator]

yet it seems the majority of this thread agrees that we should ignore racism because racism doesn't really exist

I disagree completely. I think most people in this thread agree that the pictures in the original post display an unequal depiction of those people. I think you'll see a lot of the same sentiment in the Katrina Thread in the Club.

[whottt]

If you ask me the girl in the first picture looks like she's half black or mulatto anyway...It is New Orleans you know...

I think the reason for the different captions is that the first picture was from a story on the impact of the hurricane...and the second picture was from a story about the looting.

They are all looters...but I totally underatand people looting food...I do not understand the people shooting at the ambulances and evac vehicles.

If I was there I'd be a food looting mofo myself.

As for the races of the looters...like I already said...New Orleans is a majority black city...most of the refugees are black...as are most of the looters...

If the situation was reversed and it was a white majority city I think the refugee and looting situation would also be reflective of that.

[Nbadan]

Correct me if I am wrong but Bush issued a a state of emergency BEFORE the hurricane even hit. In fact it was 2 days before it made landfall.

I am not a Bush backer by any means....but now is not the time to debate this. First you give the relief needed to the area for a sense of normal, then debate the compententcy of Bush.

Why is W turning down help from the international community?


WASHINGTON - In a dramatic turnabout, the United States is now on the receiving end of help from around the world as some two dozen countries offer post-hurricane assistance.

snip

However, in Moscow, a Russian official said the U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency had rejected a Russian offer to dispatch rescue teams and other aid.

snip

Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States, the spokesman said.

snip

Still, Bush told ABC-TV: “I’m not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn’t asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country’s going to rise up and take care of it.”

MSNBC (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9161198/)

I'm fucken tired of this arrogance.

[boutons]

There's REALLY nothing new under the sun.

===================================

September 1, 2005


The Storm After the Storm

By DAVID BROOKS (token conservative op-ed for NYT)

Hurricanes come in two waves. First comes the rainstorm, and then comes what the historian John Barry calls the "human storm" - the recriminations, the political conflict and the battle over compensation. Floods wash away the surface of society, the settled way things have been done. They expose the underlying power structures, the injustices, the patterns of corruption and the unacknowledged inequalities. When you look back over the meteorological turbulence in this nation's history, it's striking how often political turbulence followed.

In 1889 in Pennsylvania, a great flood washed away much of Johnstown. The water's crushing destruction sounded to one person like a "lot of horses grinding oats." Witnesses watched hundreds of people trapped on a burning bridge, forced to choose between burning to death or throwing themselves into the churning waters to drown.

The flood was so abnormal that the country seemed to have trouble grasping what had happened. The national media were filled with wild exaggerations and fabrications: stories of rivers dammed with corpses, of children who died while playing ring-around-the-rosy and who were found with their hands still clasped and with smiles still on their faces.

Prejudices were let loose. Hungarians then were akin to today's illegal Mexican immigrants - hard-working people who took jobs no one else wanted. Newspapers carried accounts of gangs of Hungarian men cutting off dead women's fingers to steal their rings. "Drunken Hungarians, Dancing, Singing, Cursing and Fighting Amid the Ruins" a New York Herald headline blared.

Then, as David McCullough notes in "The Johnstown Flood," public fury turned on the Pittsburgh millionaires whose club's fishing pond had emptied on the town. The Chicago Herald depicted the millionaires as Roman aristocrats, seeking pleasure while the poor died like beasts in the Coliseum.

Even before the flood, public resentment was building against the newly rich industrialists. Protests were growing against the trusts, against industrialization and against the new concentrations of wealth. The Johnstown flood crystallized popular anger, for the fishing club was indeed partly to blame. Public reaction to the disaster helped set the stage for the progressive movement and the trust-busting that was to come.

In 1900, another great storm hit the U.S., killing over 6,000 people in Galveston, Tex. The storm exposed racial animosities, for this time stories (equally false) swept through the press accusing blacks of cutting off the fingers of corpses to steal wedding rings. The devastation ended Galveston's chance to beat out Houston as Texas' leading port.

Then in 1927, the great Mississippi flood rumbled down upon New Orleans. As Barry writes in his account, "Rising Tide," the disaster ripped the veil off the genteel, feudal relations between whites and blacks, and revealed the festering iniquities. Blacks were rounded up into work camps and held by armed guards. They were prevented from leaving as the waters rose. A steamer, the Capitol, played "Bye Bye Blackbird" as it sailed away. The racist violence that followed the floods helped persuade many blacks to move north.

Civic leaders intentionally flooded poor and middle-class areas to ease the water's pressure on the city, and then reneged on promises to compensate those whose homes were destroyed. That helped fuel the populist anger that led to Huey Long's success. Across the country people demanded that the federal government get involved in disaster relief, helping to set the stage for the New Deal. The local civic elite turned insular and reactionary, and New Orleans never really recovered its preflood vibrancy.

We'd like to think that the stories of hurricanes and floods are always stories of people rallying together to give aid and comfort. And, indeed, each of America's great floods has prompted a popular response both generous and inspiring. But floods are also civic examinations. Amid all the stories that recur with every disaster - tales of sudden death and miraculous survival, the displacement and the disease - there is also the testing.

Civic arrangements work or they fail. Leaders are found worthy or wanting. What's happening in New Orleans and Mississippi today is a human tragedy. But take a close look at the people you see wandering, devastated, around New Orleans: they are predominantly black and poor. The political disturbances are still to come.

E-mail: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]

======================================

The true measure of tiny, trivial, ignorant man is being taken now:


September 1, 2005


Waiting for a Leader

George W. Bush gave one of the worst speeches of his life yesterday, especially given the level of national distress and the need for words of consolation and wisdom. In what seems to be a ritual in this administration, the president appeared a day later than he was needed. He then read an address of a quality more appropriate for an Arbor Day celebration: a long laundry list of pounds of ice, generators and blankets delivered to the stricken Gulf Coast. He advised the public that anybody who wanted to help should send cash, grinned, and promised that everything would work out in the end.

We will, of course, endure, and the city of New Orleans must come back. But looking at the pictures on television yesterday of a place abandoned to the forces of flood, fire and looting, it was hard not to wonder exactly how that is going to come to pass. Right now, hundreds of thousands of American refugees need our national concern and care. Thousands of people still need to be rescued from imminent peril. Public health threats must be controlled in New Orleans and throughout southern Mississippi. Drivers must be given confidence that gasoline will be available, and profiteering must be brought under control at a moment when television has been showing long lines at some pumps and spot prices approaching $4 a gallon have been reported.

Sacrifices may be necessary to make sure that all these things happen in an orderly, efficient way. But this administration has never been one to counsel sacrifice. And nothing about the president's demeanor yesterday - which seemed casual to the point of carelessness - suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis.

While our attention must now be on the Gulf Coast's most immediate needs, the nation will soon ask why New Orleans's levees remained so inadequate. Publications from the local newspaper to National Geographic have fulminated about the bad state of flood protection in this beloved city, which is below sea level. Why were developers permitted to destroy wetlands and barrier islands that could have held back the hurricane's surge? Why was Congress, before it wandered off to vacation, engaged in slashing the budget for correcting some of the gaping holes in the area's flood protection?

It would be some comfort to think that, as Mr. Bush cheerily announced, America "will be a stronger place" for enduring this crisis. Complacency will no longer suffice, especially if experts are right in warning that global warming may increase the intensity of future hurricanes. But since this administration won't acknowledge that global warming exists, the chances of leadership seem minimal.

*The New York Times Company

[Dos]

I like how people give their state and local officials a pass and all of sudden join in bashing the federal govt. Well folks the people you voted into local and state offices are the ones letting you down, I'd be bitching at city hall or at the state capital.

thats my 2 cents...

[Guru of Nothing]

Why must there be a political angle to any of this? I'm not a Republican by any means, and I don't support George Bush in much, but this isn't a situation about political decision-making or finger pointing. The story is that cities like New Orleans, Biloxi, and Gulfport, and countless burgs between them, are devastated and facing months (if not years) of suffering. That's not a red state or a blue state story -- it has nothing to do with who is President. Political gainsaying at this time about this issue is just unseemly to me. We should be laser-focused on finding solutions to the problems that face the Gulf States, because those problems are already significant and they aren't resolving themselves.

end of rant.

I'm slowly getting caught up on matters, but no truer words could be said.

It's well established that NBADan is not part of the solution.

[scott]

I'm going to take the high road and blame Woodrow Wilson for this whole mess.

[Nbadan]

I'm blaming the French.


:hat

[Nbadan]

SHANGHAI, China --Nearly 600,000 people were evacuated as Typhoon Talim plowed into southern China on Thursday, forcing authorities to shut down schools, highways and airports, officials said.
......

Fujian authorities evacuated 286,000 people, ordering boats into port and placing rescue teams on standby, according to the Web site of the Fujian Meteorological Bureau.

Just to the north in Zhejiang province, more than 291,000 people were moved away from the coastline, rivers, aging reservoirs, mountain villages and dilapidated housing, according to the official China News Service. More than 29,000 ships and fishing vessels took shelter in harbors, it said.

Boston (http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2005/09/01/typhoon_hits_coastal_china_600k_evacuated?mode=PF)

600,000 poor Chinese evacuated safely. Isn't there a Maoist re-education camp we could send * to?

[spurster]

Here is some more blame game to rile us up, with the claim that BushCo has been scrimping on emergency preparedness.

September 2, 2005
A Can't-Do Government
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Before 9/11 the Federal Emergency Management Agency listed the three most likely catastrophic disasters facing America: a terrorist attack on New York, a major earthquake in San Francisco and a hurricane strike on New Orleans. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all." It described a potential catastrophe very much like the one now happening.

So why were New Orleans and the nation so unprepared? After 9/11, hard questions were deferred in the name of national unity, then buried under a thick coat of whitewash. This time, we need accountability.

First question: Why have aid and security taken so long to arrive? Katrina hit five days ago - and it was already clear by last Friday that Katrina could do immense damage along the Gulf Coast. Yet the response you'd expect from an advanced country never happened. Thousands of Americans are dead or dying, not because they refused to evacuate, but because they were too poor or too sick to get out without help - and help wasn't provided. Many have yet to receive any help at all.

There will and should be many questions about the response of state and local governments; in particular, couldn't they have done more to help the poor and sick escape? But the evidence points, above all, to a stunning lack of both preparation and urgency in the federal government's response.

Even military resources in the right place weren't ordered into action. "On Wednesday," said an editorial in The Sun Herald in Biloxi, Miss., "reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw Air Force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics. Playing basketball and performing calisthenics!"

Maybe administration officials believed that the local National Guard could keep order and deliver relief. But many members of the National Guard and much of its equipment - including high-water vehicles - are in Iraq. "The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," a Louisiana Guard officer told reporters several weeks ago.

Second question: Why wasn't more preventive action taken? After 2003 the Army Corps of Engineers sharply slowed its flood-control work, including work on sinking levees. "The corps," an Editor and Publisher article says, citing a series of articles in The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, "never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security - coming at the same time as federal tax cuts - was the reason for the strain."

In 2002 the corps' chief resigned, reportedly under threat of being fired, after he criticized the administration's proposed cuts in the corps' budget, including flood-control spending.

Third question: Did the Bush administration destroy FEMA's effectiveness? The administration has, by all accounts, treated the emergency management agency like an unwanted stepchild, leading to a mass exodus of experienced professionals.

Last year James Lee Witt, who won bipartisan praise for his leadership of the agency during the Clinton years, said at a Congressional hearing: "I am extremely concerned that the ability of our nation to prepare for and respond to disasters has been sharply eroded. I hear from emergency managers, local and state leaders, and first responders nearly every day that the FEMA they knew and worked well with has now disappeared."

I don't think this is a simple tale of incompetence. The reason the military wasn't rushed in to help along the Gulf Coast is, I believe, the same reason nothing was done to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad. Flood control was neglected for the same reason our troops in Iraq didn't get adequate armor.

At a fundamental level, I'd argue, our current leaders just aren't serious about some of the essential functions of government. They like waging war, but they don't like providing security, rescuing those in need or spending on preventive measures. And they never, ever ask for shared sacrifice.

Yesterday Mr. Bush made an utterly fantastic claim: that nobody expected the breach of the levees. In fact, there had been repeated warnings about exactly that risk.

So America, once famous for its can-do attitude, now has a can't-do government that makes excuses instead of doing its job. And while it makes those excuses, Americans are dying.

E-mail: [email protected]

* Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

don't really see any one central figure or organization willing to lead here and as things worsen that might only drive more and more individual help away. The mayor of NO said that there is a 3 star Army general on the ground that Bush sent in after he (mayor) pleaded for better federal leadership who is "getting shit done" per his news conference last night.

The press was expecting the general to be at the PC, but one of the media coordinators for the mayor said that the general told them he didn't have time for press conferences right now.

So it definitely sounds like someone's in charge and working hard on things, we just aren't getting any face time.

----------

And Dan, you amaze me. You could be on fire on the ground one day, have President Bush walk by, have him stop and piss on you to put the fire out, and you'd come here to bitch about the color of his urine. I think you hate America more than OBL.

[CharlieMac]

Has anyone posted Moore's latest rant? Sounds like he'll be profitin.....errr, I meant documenting on this pretty soon.

Way to play the race card Moore.

[whottt]

No one makes more money of American tragedies than Michael Moore...that fat fuck will be feeding his fat fucking face off American Death and Misery yet again.

[mookie2001]

^whottt scoffs michael moore
comes original again

[whottt]

Don't you have some rich white people to go and hate, racist?

[mookie2001]

i never said i hated rich white people you liar
i said they were full of shit
get it right liar

you lied about the weapons of mass destruction!
you lied about the link between Iraq and Al Quaeda!

[MiNuS]

Bush Is The Most Inept President Of The Information Era!!!

[mookie2001]

Bush Is The Most Inept President Of The Information Era!!!

I like the cut of your jib

[MiNuS]

Tpark:stfu:flipoff

[cherylsteele]

Why is W turning down help from the international community?



I heard just the opposite....do you have a link for this accusation?

[Nbadan]

I heard just the opposite....do you have a link for this accusation?

He reversed that policy just yesterday. Chavez was willing to send aid from day one, but the WH refused. There is a thread about this in this forum.

[Spurminator]

According to Condi, offers have been redirected, not rejected.

[Nbadan]

Redirected to what? The Red cross? GMAFB. The fact remains that countries offered aid, search and rescue workers, search vehicles, supplies like cots, blankets and money and were turned down. until yesterday.

[Nbadan]

Did I hear Rep. Kirk (Rethug, Illinois 10) - http://www.house.gov/kirk / - just a few minutes ago, on the House floor, during the gulf coast supplemental funding authorization debate, say words to the effect "...I want to commend the CNO (chief of naval operations) for sending, on his own initiative, US naval ships to the affected area...".

Not General Peter Pace, Chair of the Joint Chiefs
Not Rummy
Not *

A man about 5th or 6th down the chain of command!

[Marcus Bryant]

It seems like one country offered aid and was rejected. Doesn't support your assertion of a plurality.

[cherylsteele]

He reversed that policy just yesterday. Chavez was willing to send aid from day one, but the WH refused. There is a thread about this in this forum.

Do you have a link?

[spurster]

Some vicious criticism (deserved IMHO) of BushCo.

September 3, 2005
United States of Shame
By MAUREEN DOWD

Stuff happens.

And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode.

When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.

When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed.

Who are we if we can't take care of our own?

E-mail: [email protected]

* Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[spurster]

And another.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03sat1.html

September 3, 2005
Katrina's Assault on Washington

Do not be misled by Congress's approval of $10.5 billion in relief for the Hurricane Katrina victims. That's prompted by the graphic shock of the news coverage from New Orleans and the region, where the devastation catapults daily, in heartbreaking contrast with the slo-mo bumblings of government.

There are dozens of questions Americans will demand to have answered once this emergency has passed. If the Homeland Security Department was so ill prepared for a natural disaster that everyone knew was coming, how is it equipped to handle other kinds of crises? Has the war in Iraq drained the nation of resources that it needs for things like flood prevention? Is the National Guard ready to handle a disaster that might be even worse, like a biological or nuclear attack?

One thing is certain: if President Bush and his Republican Congressional leaders want to deal responsibly with a historic disaster of this scale, they must finally try the path of honestly shared national sacrifice. If they respond by passing a few emergency measures and then falling back on their plans to enact more tax cuts, America will have to confront the fact that it is stuck with leaders who neither know, nor care, how to lead.

The pre-Katrina plan for this Congressional season was to enact more upper-bracket tax cuts for the least needy, while cutting into the safety-net programs for sick and impoverished Americans. These are the very entitlement programs most needed by the sudden underclass of hundreds of thousands of hurricane refugees cast adrift like Dustbowl Okies. Will Congress dare to go forward with these retrogressive plans in the face of the suffering from Katrina? Its woeful track record suggests that, shockingly, the answer may be yes.

G.O.P. leaders are set to mandate billions in Medicaid and antipoverty cuts this month, while the Senate is poised to try again to repeal the estate tax, a monumental folly that will deprive the deficit-ridden government of an estimated $750 billion in vital revenue in the first decade. The theory is that over the long run, the missing money will "starve the beast" and force Washington to make huge cuts in federal programs. The public has never bought this, but as long as the economy held up, it was willing to ignore the long-term implications.

That can't be the case now, when those implications are sitting in filthy refugee centers, when the streets of New Orleans are under water and when the nation must take care of hundreds of thousands of homeless people. Yet President Bush has still managed to repeat his no-taxes mantra.

Senator Mary Landrieu, the Louisiana Democrat, is now fighting for every available dollar to restore her state. Republicans had been wooing Ms. Landrieu as a possible supporter of the estate tax repeal. Now, we presume, she has higher priorities.

Washington's inspiration must now be the individual rescuers in New Orleans, who have labored so bravely and selflessly, as well as the charitable deeds of local and state governments. Houston's offer of shelter at the Astrodome has put self-regarding national politicians to shame.

Congress and the president had better get the message: an extraordinary time is upon the nation. The annihilation in New Orleans is an irrefutable sign that the national tax-cut party is over. So is the idea that American voters cannot be required to accept sacrifice or inconvenience, no matter how great the crisis. This country is better than that.

* Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[The Ressurrected One]

Yeah, that was objective.

Let's cover the stuff you bolded:


America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.
Seems to me she must be talking about the criminally negligent goverment officials of New Orleans, Jefferson Parish, and the State of Louisiana. Nice rhetoric, but it means nothing.


Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.
That's an interesting point. However, if the President should have known...so should have the mayor of New Orleans. Why didn't he order the mandatory evacuation sooner? Like when Katrina entered the Gulf and reached category 4? Why are there hundreds and hundreds of sunken school buses and city transit buses? If the President should have anticipated such a catastrophic event, should not the Mayor...and, if so, shouldn't he have forcibly evacuated everyone, using whatever resource was at his disposal? I think EVERYONE involved shares equally in their inability to face the probability of the levees failing. Except, that it was the Mayor of New Orlean's responsibility to act...not the President's


Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
Why is he at fault for not knowing? Apparently you believe he has some type of omniscient presence that immediately tells him where people have assembled.

The immediate response of FEMA and federal resources was to seek pockets of stranded people and evacuate them. The already established shelters were the responsibility of the local governments. After all, the presumption was that if you're going to open a shelter, you've provided for the needs of those people for at least 72 hours.

No one has yet 'fessed up to opening the Convention Center shelter. My understanding is that local officials just started directing people there. I have no reason to believe FEMA was made aware of it's existence or the fact that it was an unsupported shelter prior to Thursday.

Why isn't anyone screaming for the Mayor's head? Seems he should be sacked before Mark Brown. And, what, exactly does Mr. Brown's prior employment have to do with any of this?

[Nbadan]

Do you have a link?

Here is a archive of the Link where W initially refuses foreign aid as appeared in the NY Times, Washington Post and AP..


As the tragedy of New Orleans unfolded before onlookers around the world, donations and offers of assistance poured in from Americans and others - including some from poor nations still struggling to recover from a comparable disaster, the tsunami that spread across Asia last December.

Oddly, however, the administration of President George W. Bush evinced an ambivalent attitude toward the world's generosity. The president said that international aid was appreciated but unnecessary; other administration officials indicated that all offers of help would be gratefully accepted.

The offers of foreign aid kept pouring in on Friday: helicopters from Canada, cash from Japan, tents and military aircraft from France, even oil from Venezuela, a political foe.

IHT (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/02/news/react.php)

International aid was refused until Thursday. Needless to say, this has been buried by Conservatives.

[cherylsteele]

Here is a archive of the Link where W initially refuses foreign aid as appeared in the NY Times, Washington Post and AP..



IHT (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/02/news/react.php)

International aid was refused until Thursday. Needless to say, this has been buried by Conservatives.


And here is another article that suggests differently

By Sue Pleming
Fri Sep 2, 3:54 PM ET



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has not actively sought foreign aid following Hurricane Katrina but dozens of countries lined up on Friday to help with rescue efforts, from hefty cash donations to tents and helicopters.

ADVERTISEMENT

The State Department said more than 40 governments and international organizations had made generous offers and the list was growing by the hour after Katrina devastated New Orleans and other parts of the U.S. Gulf Coast, killing hundreds and possibly thousands of people.

"We are not formally requesting assistance but anything that can materially benefit folks in need is something that we will accept," said a State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Countries were very generous after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States but officials said they could not remember this kind of outpouring of sympathy and aid for any other natural disaster on U.S. soil.

Singapore sent helicopters, Israel offered medical teams within 24 hours and European oil producers responded to a formal U.S. request to release gasoline stocks.

Help was not limited to allies and opponents of U.S. policy such as Cuba and Venezuela put aside their political differences to join the chorus of nations offering help.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send cheap fuel but the State Department said a decision had not been made on whether to accept this offer.

Poor nations that usually turn to the United States for assistance, such as Honduras, offered to become donors as did Sri Lanka and Indonesia, countries that benefited from U.S. assistance after last year's Indian Ocean tsunami.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice canceled her vacation and returned to work, where she spoke via telephone to her counterparts in more than a handful of foreign capitals.

Washington-based foreign embassies swamped the State Department with offers of help and several embassies planned charity fund-raisers to help those afflicted by the disaster.

The State Department, whose own passport office in New Orleans was closed by the hurricane, has activated a task force to handle offers of help and coordinate foreign assistance.

The department listed donors so far as: Australia, Austria, the Bahamas, Belgium, Canada, China, Columbia, Cuba, Dominica, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, the European Union, France, Germany, Guatemala, Britain, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Lithuania, Mexico, NATO, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, the Organization of American States, Paraguay, South Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Sweden, Venezuela and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050902/us_nm/weather_katrina_foreign_dc_1)

I guess karma is going a long way....after helping all less fortunate countries the show they are appreciative by returning the favor, wether they financially are able to or not.

[Hook Dem]

And here is another article that suggests differently

By Sue Pleming
Fri Sep 2, 3:54 PM ET



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has not actively sought foreign aid following Hurricane Katrina but dozens of countries lined up on Friday to help with rescue efforts, from hefty cash donations to tents and helicopters.

ADVERTISEMENT

The State Department said more than 40 governments and international organizations had made generous offers and the list was growing by the hour after Katrina devastated New Orleans and other parts of the U.S. Gulf Coast, killing hundreds and possibly thousands of people.

"We are not formally requesting assistance but anything that can materially benefit folks in need is something that we will accept," said a State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Countries were very generous after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States but officials said they could not remember this kind of outpouring of sympathy and aid for any other natural disaster on U.S. soil.

Singapore sent helicopters, Israel offered medical teams within 24 hours and European oil producers responded to a formal U.S. request to release gasoline stocks.

Help was not limited to allies and opponents of U.S. policy such as Cuba and Venezuela put aside their political differences to join the chorus of nations offering help.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send cheap fuel but the State Department said a decision had not been made on whether to accept this offer.

Poor nations that usually turn to the United States for assistance, such as Honduras, offered to become donors as did Sri Lanka and Indonesia, countries that benefited from U.S. assistance after last year's Indian Ocean tsunami.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice canceled her vacation and returned to work, where she spoke via telephone to her counterparts in more than a handful of foreign capitals.

Washington-based foreign embassies swamped the State Department with offers of help and several embassies planned charity fund-raisers to help those afflicted by the disaster.

The State Department, whose own passport office in New Orleans was closed by the hurricane, has activated a task force to handle offers of help and coordinate foreign assistance.

The department listed donors so far as: Australia, Austria, the Bahamas, Belgium, Canada, China, Columbia, Cuba, Dominica, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, the European Union, France, Germany, Guatemala, Britain, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Lithuania, Mexico, NATO, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, the Organization of American States, Paraguay, South Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Sweden, Venezuela and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050902/us_nm/weather_katrina_foreign_dc_1)

I guess karma is going a long way....after helping all less fortunate countries the show they are appreciative by returning the favor, wether they financially are able to or not.
Don't confuse Dan with the facts!

[SpursWoman]

Either you are with us or you are with the hurricanes, Nbadan.


This is the first I've looked through this thread..but I just have to :lmao right here.


:lol :lol

[cherylsteele]

Don't confuse Dan with the facts!

It's not my fault...can't help it.
Talk to Dan:D

[SpursWoman]

What Bush apparently needed to do is be dropped into a flooded New Orleans neighborhood, walk on the water and then command the waters to part and lead his people to the promised land (or Baton Rouge, as it were). When they reach it, then W will have to feed the masses with five loaves of bread (whole wheat, not that white shit) and a couple of smoked Atlantic salmon.

Or perhaps we can regard Nbadan as perhaps the most entertaining crackpot the internets have ever seen.


And here, too.... :lmao :lmao

[SpursWoman]

sometimes i feel like im the only sane person in the world. Does that make me crazy?


By definition, yes. :)

[Nbadan]

I guess karma is going a long way....after helping all less fortunate countries the show they are appreciative by returning the favor, wether they financially are able to or not.

But the fact remains that it took the WH till Thursday to formally accept help from the international community. Cherly your source is the state department..


The State Department said more than 40 governments

but my source is the WH, and notice that it makes a cavet for the cabinet..


Oddly, however, the administration of President George W. Bush evinced an ambivalent attitude toward the world's generosity. The president said that international aid was appreciated but unnecessary; other administration officials indicated that all offers of help would be gratefully accepted

Key word other. Other as in, oh, I don't know? the State Department.

See how both articles can be technically right, but the fact a we know them still remains the same, and that is it took till Thursday for the first international teams to arrive. I believe the first help to arrive was some Canadians.

Fuck you Hookdem.

[cherylsteele]

But the fact remains that it took the WH till Thursday to formally accept help from the international community. Cherly your source is the state department..

Weren't you the one who kept saying they refused help totally? Now you say it took too long. Mayde, just maybe they were trying to see what they needed most and were it was needed?

[boutons]

Michael Moore is left-wing joker, a clown, a counter-point to that dumbshit joker and clown shrub. MM makes films, shrubs makes graves. The difference is the MM KNOWS he's playing the fool, while shrub is so mentally deficient, so benighted as to fool himself that has a fucking clue as to what is going on.

How many US soldiers has MM murdered? vs how many 10's of 1000's of deaths due to shrubs' bullshit Iraq war?

Anybody who thinks MM is a threat of ANY kind is fucking dumbshit parano.

[jochhejaam]

http://dailyramblings.com/images/bushjokewallpaper.jpg

boutons computer wallpaper ^^^

[Hook Dem]

"Fuck you Hookdem."...........Atta-boy Dan!

[Nbadan]

Weren't you the one who kept saying they refused help totally? Now you say it took too long. Mayde, just maybe they were trying to see what they needed most and were it was needed?


So the State Department was calling the shots? Common Cheryl, you and I both know that's not the way this administration works. Needed to be needed? Listen to how ridiculous that sounds. We needed search and rescue teams.

[SpursWoman]

And now we need volunteers helping in the shelters. Have you signed up yet?



BTW, when I went to go drop off a bunch of blankets and stuff..there were LOTS of Tahoes with Bush stickers on the back parked in the volunteer parking section.

:)

[Nbadan]

And now we need volunteers helping in the shelters. Have you signed up yet?

BTW, when I went to go drop off a bunch of blankets and stuff..there were LOTS of Tahoes with Bush stickers on the back parked in the volunteer parking section.

:)

Texans have been wonderful in this situation, but I'm sure there are plenty of Kerry stickers in the Parking Lot too. It's my understanding that you have to be Red Cross certified to be a volunteer. Are you Red Cross certified?

[SpursWoman]

Texans have been wonderful in this situation, but I'm sure there are plenty of Kerry stickers in the Parking Lot too. It's my understanding that you have to be Red Cross certified to be a volunteer. Are you Red Cross certified?

Anyone over the age of 18 can volunteer, all they do is put you through about a 20 minute orientation. I'm sure they could certainly use a big, strong man like you. :)

And I know that the help knows no party, but I just thought the Tahoe thing was funny.

[Nbadan]

I'm sure they could certainly use a big, strong man like you.

Or a warm, intelligent woman like yourself.

:hat

[SpursWoman]

Or a warm, intelligent woman like yourself.

:hat

:lol

[FromWayDowntown]

KSAT just ran tape of interviews with various Katrina survivors of all ages and races. Their comments are poignant. For each, the only concern is finding their family members and coming up with some way to put their lives back in order. There were no politics there. It was real -- very real.

Politics disgust me right now.

[Nbadan]

KSAT just ran tape of interviews with various Katrina survivors of all ages and races. Their comments are poignant. For each, the only concern is finding their family members and coming up with some way to put their lives back in order. There were no politics there. It was real -- very real.

Politics disgust me right now.

Just another example of people being reduced to their lowest common denominator by our government. It's hard to talk politics when you don't have a home, job or clothing, medicine or future, but I'm willing to bet some of these people had opinions about 911.

I honestly believe many of these people will have viable negligence cases before everything is said and done.

[FromWayDowntown]

I honestly believe many of these people will have viable negligence cases before everything is said and done.

I'm really interested to hear how that's possible. Is there some identifiable duty that you have in mind to support those claims? The duty to prevent category 4 hurricanes until the levees have been upgraded?

Acts of nature don't give rise to negligence claims. Texas, for example, recognizes that Acts of God are a complete defense to negligence claims.

Besides that, if your intention is to sue the government, you'd better come up with a rock-solid theory to circumvent the principles of sovereign immunity. You do know that you can't sue the government unless the government has authorized suits on those claims, don't you?

I officially doubt that you know much about the law.

[FromWayDowntown]

Just another example of people being reduced to their lowest common denominator by our government. It's hard to talk politics when you don't have a home, job or clothing, medicine or future, but I'm willing to bet some of these people had opinions about 911.

These people haven't been reduced to their lowest common denominator by the government!! They've been shown to be perfectly human -- fragile as all of the rest of us -- by an act of nature that has brought difficult and even tragic results.

Just take a step back for a second, dan, and realize that you just discounted the plight of each of these people -- each of these real people -- by equating them to pawns in some larger political game. WGAF if they had opinions about 9/11? You've got no real compassion for their plight; you just see it as a means to an end that has nothing to do with these people and everything to do with your unrelenting desire to see your candidates gain power.

While you play some game using their plight as a vehicle, many of those people are searching for or mourning loved ones. They are living on cots in cramped shelters in foreign cities. They are wondering where they'll find work. They are wondering where they'll go to school now. They are fighting like hell to stretch every last cent they have to begin to replace what they've lost while trying to keep up on a daily basis. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and I certainly wouldn't ever think to use it for any sort of political gain. This transcends politics, unless you're so lacking in compassion that you don't appreciate real problems as anything other than political issues.

[timvp]

FromWayDowntown has the best takes I've read regarding the Katrina disaster. He gets it 100%.

This isn't about politics; it's about people.

[Nbadan]

I'm really interested to hear how that's possible. Is there some identifiable duty that you have in mind to support those claims? The duty to prevent category 4 hurricanes until the levees have been upgraded?

Acts of nature don't give rise to negligence claims. Texas, for example, recognizes that Acts of God are a complete defense to negligence claims.

Besides that, if your intention is to sue the government, you'd better come up with a rock-solid theory to circumvent the principles of sovereign immunity. You do know that you can't sue the government unless the government has authorized suits on those claims, don't you?

I officially doubt that you know much about the law.

Please, once again you under-estimate me.

In my opinion, It's not the levees breaking that may leave the Government legally vulnerable here. It's that the City, the State, and the Feds had no effective plan for evacuating the city in a timely, orderly fashion. I think that will be talked about plenty during Congressional hearings and the decision will be made then whether sovereign immunity applies in this case or not.

[Nbadan]

Just take a step back for a second, dan, and realize that you just discounted the plight of each of these people -- each of these real people -- by equating them to pawns in some larger political game. WGAF if they had opinions about 9/11? You've got no real compassion for their plight; you just see it as a means to an end that has nothing to do with these people and everything to do with your unrelenting desire to see your candidates gain power.

It's not I reducing these people to pawns in a political game. I wasn't the one preventing victims from exiting the city on foot because of the color of their skin or because they had no money. I wasn't the one firing shots over people heads because they had the audacity to approach me (law enforcement) for help and water. I didn't lie to people and tell them there was buses waiting to rescue them where there were no buses.

Yes, when your rich or Caucasian or both these concerns don't matter to you because you already know that you'll be taken care of in case of a impending disaster. However, here we sit with two months left in the 05 Hurricane season and about the only thing the feds have proven so far is that if your poor, Hispanic, black, sick, old, or feeble it's every man for himself. But lets not talk about this because it might upset the victims of Katrina.

[Opinionater]

IMHO, you can plan for a situation but it doesn't mean those plans will work.
The flooding WAS anticipated for the Army Corps of Engineers but the levees breaking were not.

[boutons]

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/jd/2005/jd050906.gif

[FromWayDowntown]

Please, once again you under-estimate me.

In my opinion, It's not the levees breaking that may leave the Government legally vulnerable here. It's that the City, the State, and the Feds had no effective plan for evacuating the city in a timely, orderly fashion. I think that will be talked about plenty during Congressional hearings and the decision will be made then whether sovereign immunity applies in this case or not.

Sovereign immunity applies in any case in which a party seeks to sue a governmental entity. The only cognizable exceptions to sovereign immunity exist by virtue of statutes. Thus, as a matter of law (and not simply as a matter of my opinion) unless you can point me to a statute that existed on Sunday, August 28, 2005 that would permit suits against the sovereign for the damages that people have sustained, resulting from the absence of an effective evacuation plan, I have little doubt that there will be no judicial recourse for persons adversely affected.

[1369]

Memo to self: Never challenge FWD to a game of Scrabble.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's not I reducing these people to pawns in a political game. I wasn't the one preventing victims from exiting the city on foot because of the color of their skin or because they had no money. I wasn't the one firing shots over people heads because they had the audacity to approach me (law enforcement) for help and water. I didn't lie to people and tell them there was buses waiting to rescue them where there were no buses.

Yes, when your rich or Caucasian or both these concerns don't matter to you because you already know that you'll be taken care of in case of a impending disaster. However, here we sit with two months left in the 05 Hurricane season and about the only thing the feds have proven so far is that if your poor, Hispanic, black, sick, old, or feeble it's every man for himself. But lets not talk about this because it might upset the victims of Katrina.

Now you're passing the buck. You're the one who's trying to pile on in a bad situation by assessing blame (based, I think, on your own political motives) while the problems that exist still haven't been resolved. The issue isn't what went wrong, but what must be done to put things back together. Your continuing focus on pointing fingers and looking backwards while there are still pressing, life-and-death issues to address is what galls me.

I'm appalled by your willingness to take the plight of these people and make it some antiseptic political issue, rather than the intensely personal and heartbreaking struggle that it continues to be.

It's not about upsetting the victims of Katrina, dan, it's about understanding the multitudinous daily problems they face and doing what we can to help them to address those problems in the here and now. It's about showing genuine compassion for the way in which their lives have been devastated. It's about comprehending that for each of those people, the human toll of this disaster will likely be significant. It's about understanding the uncertainty of a child who doesn't know what happened to his parents, who he last saw on the roof of the home they so recently lived in. Those are the real problems that exist -- those are the real problems we should be focused on solving, each in our own little way, however insignificant it might be.

I'll reiterate: there will be plenty of time to assess blame and make political hay. There are too many bigger issues that exist right now.

[Nbadan]

Now you're passing the buck. You're the one who's trying to pile on in a bad situation by assessing blame (based, I think, on your own political motives) while the problems that exist still haven't been resolved. The issue isn't what went wrong, but what must be done to put things back together. Your continuing focus on pointing fingers and looking backwards while there are still pressing, life-and-death issues to address is what galls me.

I'm appalled by your willingness to take the plight of these people and make it some antiseptic political issue, rather than the intensely personal and heartbreaking struggle that it continues to be.

I'm not so much interested in assessing blame as you put it, as much as wondering if we don't examine the circumstances, and yes that includes the political issues, that led to this tragedy in the first place, how do we know its not gonna happen again? Sitting here in hurricane country I think we can all agree that we all have far to much to lose to let things continue being status quo.

Keith Olbermann had a interesting column on this very issue today which I would like to introduce at this time...

September 5, 2005 | 8:58 p.m. ET
The "city" of Louisiana (Keith Olbermann)


SECAUCUS — Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said it all, starting his news briefing Saturday afternoon: "Louisiana is a city that is largely underwater..."

Well there's your problem right there.

If ever a slip-of-the-tongue defined a government's response to a crisis, this was it.

The seeming definition of our time and our leaders had been their insistence on slashing federal budgets for projects that might’ve saved New Orleans. The seeming characterization of our government that it was on vacation when the city was lost, and could barely tear itself away from commemorating V.J. Day and watching Monty Python's Flying Circus, to at least pretend to get back to work. The seeming
identification of these hapless bureaucrats: their pathetic use of the future tense in terms of relief they could’ve brought last Monday and Tuesday — like the President, whose statements have looked like they’re being transmitted to us by some kind of four-day tape-delay.

But no. The incompetence and the ludicrous prioritization will forever be symbolized by one gaffe by of the head of what is ironically called “The Department of Homeland Security”: “Louisiana is a city…”

Politician after politician — Republican and Democrat alike — has paraded before us, unwilling or unable to shut off the "I-Me" switch in their heads, condescendingly telling us about how moved they were or how devastated they were — congenitally incapable of telling the difference between the destruction of a city and the opening of a supermarket.

And as that sorry recital of self-absorption dragged on, I have resisted editorial comment. The focus needed to be on the efforts to save the stranded — even the internet's meager powers were correctly devoted to telling the stories of the twin disasters, natural... and government-made.

But now, at least, it is has stopped getting exponentially worse in Mississippi and Alabama and New Orleans and Louisiana (the state, not the city). And, having given our leaders what we know now is the week or so they need to get their act together, that period of editorial silence I mentioned, should come to an end.

No one is suggesting that mayors or governors in the afflicted areas, nor the federal government, should be able to stop hurricanes. Lord knows, no one is suggesting that we should ever prioritize levee improvement for a below-sea-level city, ahead of $454 million worth of trophy bridges for the politicians of Alaska.

But, nationally, these are leaders who won re-election last year largely by portraying their opponents as incapable of keeping the country safe. These are leaders who regularly pressure the news media in this country to report the reopening of a school or a power station in Iraq, and defies its citizens not to stand up and cheer. Yet they couldn't even keep one school or power station from being devastated by infrastructure collapse in New Orleans — even though the government had heard all the "chatter" from the scientists and city planners and hurricane centers and some group whose purposes the government couldn't quite discern... a group called The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

And most chillingly of all, this is the Law and Order and Terror government. It promised protection — or at least amelioration — against all threats: conventional, radiological, or biological.

It has just proved that it cannot save its citizens from a biological weapon called standing water.

Mr. Bush has now twice insisted that, "we are not satisfied," with the response to the manifold tragedies along the Gulf Coast. I wonder which "we" he thinks he's speaking for on this point. Perhaps it's the administration, although we still don't know where some of them are. Anybody seen the Vice President lately? The man whose message this time last year was, 'I'll Protect You, The Other Guy Will Let You Die'?

I don't know which 'we' Mr. Bush meant.

For many of this country's citizens, the mantra has been — as we were taught in Social Studies it should always be — whether or not I voted for this President — he is still my President. I suspect anybody who had to give him that benefit of the doubt stopped doing so last week. I suspect a lot of his supporters, looking ahead to '08, are
wondering how they can distance themselves from the two words which will define his government — our government — "New Orleans."

For him, it is a shame — in all senses of the word. A few changes of pronouns in there, and he might not have looked so much like a 21st Century Marie Antoinette. All that was needed was just a quick "I'm not satisfied with my government's response." Instead of hiding behind phrases like "no one could have foreseen," had he only remembered Winston Churchill's quote from the 1930's. "The responsibility," of government, Churchill told the British Parliament "for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact, the prime object for which governments come into existence."

In forgetting that, the current administration did not merely damage itself — it damaged our confidence in our ability to rely on whoever is in the White House.

As we emphasized to you here all last week, the realities of the region are such that New Orleans is going to be largely uninhabitable for a lot longer than anybody is yet willing to recognize. Lord knows when the last body will be found, or the last artifact of the levee break, dug up. Could be next March. Could be 2100. By then, in the
muck and toxic mire of New Orleans, they may even find our government's credibility.

Somewhere, in the City of Louisiana.

Link (http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people)

[1369]

Since we're quoting sports figures, I offer the following in rebuttal:

The Daily Czabe (http://www.czabe.com/daily/)


Last week in this space, I wrote how I was disappointed in George W. Bush to some degree, for being a bit behind the curve in providing federal assistance to New Orleans. While some of this sentiment remains, I am blown away at how over the top certain elements of the Democratic left and the MSM are taking this. Furthermore, as a rational human being, I am able to amend opinions based upon facts – many of these facts only became known to me by watching the news and reading articles over the long weekend. Here’s what I found.

Here’s Ten Things you perhaps did not know, that might make you think differently about exactly who is “at fault” for “all of this.” (Two overly-general, and constantly thrown around terms I’ve heard all week.)

1. In the case of Katrina, there was huge fleet of school buses the mayor could have dispatched to aid in evacuating people unable to leave on their own. Instead, the buses sat in parking lots that later flooded, making them unusable when tens of thousands were stranded in the flooded city.

2. One of the primary reasons why the National Guard did not arrive sooner, was the fact that the Governor (Katherine “Cry, Cry, For Us..” Blanco) HAD TO ASK for the troops from the federal government, and that she refused at first, fearing that it would “complicate” the security situation on the ground. Contrary to popular belief, the President does NOT command the National Guard in any state. State governors do. Until she authorizes the Guard to be “federalized” they can’t do anything at the behest of the president. Such niggling details.

3. Though the city's crime rate is ten times the national average, U.S. news outlets downplayed the connection between New Orleans' outsized criminal element and delays in rescue efforts. Even as murder rates continued to decline in other cities in recent years, the murder rate in New Orleans crept up. The police were plagued by allegations of corruption and brutality, and, according to The Associated Press, only had ''3.14 officers per 1,000 residents - less than half the rate in Washington, D.C.''

4. Though the U.N.'s own top official for disaster relief has called Katrina one of "the largest, most destructive natural disasters ever," shamefully only a handful of nations – at last count just 25 nations of the 191 countries in the United Nations – have come forward to offer assistance.

5. Guess who IMPLORED Governor Kleenex to issue a rare MANDATORY evacuation of the city BEFORE the Hurricane struck, saving tens of thousands of lives? That’s right, the Dunce In Chief, George W. Bush.

6. The same guy who Kanye West claims “doesn’t care about black people” has more black people in higher positions of authority in his cabinet than Bill Clinton had in two terms. Pesky facts.

7. Despite a modest cut in funding to the Army Corp. of Engineers and the levee projects in New Orleans, the Corps admitted last week that the two levees which failed were both complete and in “good condition” and not part of the levees that were targeted for improvement.

8. I love how people say that Bush should have “known this was coming” and done more to avert it. Well sure, I suppose, but how about the f’ing Mayor and Governor taking a beating first? Go to www.nola.com and read about the 5-Part series written by the Times Picayune in 2002 (FIVE PARTS!) that basically laid out this disaster in shockingly accurate detail well in advance. How about the fact that the city and its leaders learned almost NOTHING from what was a dress-rehearsal last summer on Hurricane Ivan. Even lesser hurricane Georges in 1998 did a lot of flooding damage in parts of the city. But yeah, it’s Bush’s fault.

9. No matter how long it took for rescue buses to arrive, how can you combat the off-the-charts ignorance of the following snippet from a news article. When asked if he was glad to see rescue workers finally arrive, a man said: "Hell no, I'm not glad to see them. They should have been here days ago. I ain't glad to see 'em. I'll be glad when 100 buses show up," said 46-year-old Michael Levy, whose words were echoed by those around him yelling, "Hell, yeah! Hell yeah!" "We've been sleeping on the ... ground like rats," Levy said. "I say burn this whole ... city down." REACT: Why yes indeed, burn that sucker down! And then we’ll blame George W. Bush!

10. In the end, some 100,000 estimated people were evacuated from a major metropolitan city that was 80% flooded with toxic waters. All told, there will be far less than the ESTIMATED 10,000 to 25,000 deaths predicted by government agencies in their simulated “models” of a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans on the nose. This was done under the strain of a hostile criminal element in the city that went unchecked by local police. This was done under the strain of a mayor and governor that made both critical mistakes in the early hours of the crisis.

Do I think we could have done better? Sure. But what exactly would have been “par” for such an unprecedented, dangerous, and complicated evacuation? Three days? Two? BOTTOM LINE IS THAT AS AMERICANS, OUR TWO BIGGEST FAULTS ARE IMPATIENCE AND ARROGANCE. We somehow expected our president to unleash a fleet of magic red carpets to somehow whisk away an entire inner-city in time for our re-runs of “Friends” at 7 p.m. We have the arrogance to believe that nothing bad should ever happen to America, and that such calamity only happens to “other countries.”

Here’s my challenge to any critic, or any other nation talking shit about “how can America not take care of its own refugees better than this. I’ll challenge any other country, or any other administration with the following.

Pick a large, mostly poor, urban city and flood it with water to 80%. Knockout all power, all telephone communication (land line and cell), and water. Make sure that hundreds of city owned emergency vehicles like ambulances and fire engines are stranded in waist deep water. Take out several key bridges leading into the city. Make sure that you have no good place to put the 100,000 people you are taking out of the city, except for one place that holds about 20,000. Make sure that place is 350 miles away. Make sure your hardened criminal/drug element of the city has free reign to loot and terrorize in the first 48 hours. Be sure to remember that this same element will murder cops, shoot at firemen, and even try to shoot down relief helicopters. Set some buildings on fire and a chemical plant, just to make it interesting. Then set daytime temperature to 93 degrees with humidity.

Okay, you’ve got everything in place, ready to go? You’ve got a thousand or more buses, all staffed with qualified drivers, all of them with a full tank of gas, and all of them with the necessary police escort to keep from getting hijacked once in the city? Good. Now, you’ve got the National Guard all ready, prepared to swoop into the flooded city and restore “order” – even though the minute one of them shoots a gun-toting looter beating up an old woman in a wheelchair, there will be a national outcry the likes that has never been heard? Make sure that a considerable amount of the people left in the city, are refusing to leave, saying they have nowhere else to go.

Good. Get started. I’ll sit here with my stopwatch, and see how quick and smoothly it will go with perfect “preparation” for such an enormous task.

The biggest disgrace in all of this, is that there are THOUSANDS of true heroes doing unbelievable work, and they are being completely ignored by the “instant media blame game” and the utterly inflammatory “professional race-baiters.” There are helicopter pilots flying nonstop in dangerous conditions. Doctors keeping people alive by hand-ventilating them for a week. Police trying to keep a city in chaos from completely imploding. Average citizens, wading through a hellish soup of toxins and dangers to pull fellow citizens to safety. If you read enough on the web, and see enough photos like I have, you’ll see lots of whites helping blacks and blacks helping whites.

While I believe that last week was not our country’s finest hour, it was certainly not our worst. We did the best we could, given human imperfections and less than flawless local leadership. Thousands sacrificed their time, money, and sometimes lives to help others. And while the first response will be debated for a long time, I am confident that the follow through efforts this week, the next, and many weeks after that will showcase America’s better qualities.
Money will be offered generously. Homes will be opened to those who are displaced. Care will be given by those who know how. Let the critics and cynics say what they want. Those who matter in this relief effort, are probably too busy helping out to even care.

[SpursWoman]

Since we're quoting sports figures, I offer the following in rebuttal:

The Daily Czabe (http://www.czabe.com/daily/)


That was awesome. :tu :)

[JohnnyMarzetti]

http://www.bartcop.com/imagine_that.jpg

[mookie2001]

^^
exactly

[Nbadan]

The lack of any accountability continues...


White House rejects calls for firing of FEMA director
Sept 6

The White House is rejecting calls to fire the nation's top disaster chief in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Critics are questioning whether Michael Brown is qualified to head up the Federal Emergency Management Agency -- which is being blamed for a slow federal response to the storm.

Brown served nine years as a commissioner with the Aurora (Colorado)-based International Arabian Horse Association, before leaving in February 2001.

...

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan says "enormous progress" has been made since the storm hit eight days ago.

KATC (http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3811189)

Hummm....I smell a Freedom Medal coming.

[Nbadan]

The only people who get fired by this administration are those that won't play the political blame-game...


Michael Parker, the recently appointed leader of the Army Corps of Engineers, was abruptly forced to resign yesterday for failing to defend President Bush's proposed budget cuts.

Parker, a former House member from Mississippi who was confirmed as assistant Army secretary for civil works five months ago, was the first major administration official ousted since Bush took office. He had made no secret of his disdain for the Office of Management and Budget's efforts to rein in the Corps, and recently told a sympathetic House committee that he had requested $2 billion more than the OMB proposed in the president's budget. At a Senate hearing, he questioned the administration's decision to fund no new Corps projects, adding that he did not have a "warm and fuzzy feeling" for OMB officials.

Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A51566-2002Mar6&notFound=true)

[The Ressurrected One]

Since we're quoting sports figures, I offer the following in rebuttal:

The Daily Czabe (http://www.czabe.com/daily/)

Excellent post.

[Nbadan]

And the malfeasance continues by FEMA...

Numerous credible sources have come forward with examples of how the Federal Emergency Management Agency is deliberately sabotaging Hurricane Katrina relief efforts in New Orleans.

Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard appeared on Meet the Press Sunday and broke down in tears as he described FEMA's criminal activities.

"We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines."

Why would FEMA, an organization supposedly tasked with helping in a time of crisis, deliberately cut police communication lines? This is a blatant example of sabotage and a sick push to make the disaster worse. In carrying out these actions, FEMA are no better than the animals who shot at rescue workers and helicopters.

We now have multiple reports of police being ordered to guard key infrastructures in order to defend them from FEMA federal agents. Sheriffs in numerous different counties are guarding highways to keep FEMA out. FEMA is being treated as the enemy because they are sabotaging key facilities in an effort to intentionally worsen the already desperate scenes of horror in New Orleans.

[MannyIsGod]

Please, once again you under-estimate me.


I don't really need to add anything to this thread, except that I want to laugh and point at Nbadan and his never dying love for himself. :lol

[Nbadan]

I don't really need to add anything to this thread, except that I want to laugh and point at Nbadan and his never dying love for himself

Do you ever add anything significant to a thread? Common Manny stick your neck out.

Just once.

Just once.

[Jelly]

"Why would FEMA, an organization supposedly tasked with helping in a time of crisis, deliberately cut police communication lines? This is a blatant example of sabotage and a sick push to make the disaster worse."

Obviously. FEMA wants to make it worse. We all know how much they're enjoying getting their asses roasted like no other public agency has in American history. Yeah, they like it rough. Bunch of sick pervs.

[Nbadan]

Well, I think this pic pretty much sums up the Feds response...

George W. Bush. Hurricane Frances. September 8th, 2004. 3 Days after the Hurricane. ELECTION YEAR!

http://www.dubyad40.com/images/captions/bushice.jpg

George W. Bush. Hurricane Katrina. August 25, 2005. The Day after the Hurricane. NON-ELECTION YEAR

http://www.dubyad40.com/images/captions/bushg.jpg

[Nbadan]

Police beating Journalist? Iraq? No, New Orleans...


""Another photojournalist - Lucas Oleniuk of the Toronto Star - was knocked to the ground by police, his gear taken from him initially, when he photographed them shooting at looters and then beating one. In response to the growing violence and an increasing sense of despair among the stranded survivors, some television networks have hired armed private security firms to protect their journalists as they work to cover the story.""

NPPA (http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2005/09/hurricane2.html)

[boutons]

Context that is seems that every USA potential-for-disaster survey for decades had the failure and/or overflowing of the NO levees as one of the top national disasters. shrub/Repugs/HLS/FEMA have absolutely no grounds to say they were "surprised" by the levee failure.

The Feds failed in their responsibility to maintain the levees (Federal
surface-water/flood control system, where NO/LA have no responsibilities),

failed to monitor the levees during/after the storm for leaks/breaches,

failed to have levee repair materiel, equipment, and teams stationed within the levee area for rapid response to levee problems.

EVERYTHING else that follows the levee failures, including the deaths of 1000's NO residents, would have been avoided if shrub/Repugs had discharged, rather than ignored, their responsibility for the levees.

[FromWayDowntown]

For anyone who caught (what I believe) is the most recent South Park, the brilliant commentary satirizing the finger-pointers in the aftermath of a disaster made me think of this thread.

If you haven't caught it yet, it's worth a look. It's absolutely brilliant.

[Shelly]

My husband recently saw a new patient that was an evacuee from NOLA.

The guy was a sous-chef at some pretty famous restaurant there (my husband couldn't remember the name). Anyway, he said he was stuck on his roof for 18 hours and was eventually saved by his Iraqui (sp?) neighbor. When my husband asked him he didn't leave, he said, "Because I was stupid". My husband also asked him who he thought was at fault for this whole thing and he said it was the mayor and the governor. And not that it matters, but yeah, he was black.

He said that he already bought a house here and my husband suggested he open a Cajun restaurant here. He said he and his some people he knows have talked about it.