Could the Chargers get a 7th round pick for Phillip Rivers? [Archive]

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 01:05 AM

Allen can't get open, Gates is old and slow, terrible offensive line, their only above-average RB can't stay on the field, coach calls only basic football plays...

And the quarterback can't elevate his teammates and can always be counted on to throw a horrible pick into double or triple coverage or fumble a snap under adversity.

vander

12-15-2014, 01:08 AM

And the quarterback can't elevate his teammates and can always be counted on to throw a horrible pick into double or triple coverage or fumble a snap under adversity.

still, he has less to work with than most good teams

Avante

12-15-2014, 01:31 AM

How many teams in the league can beat the Broncos/New England back to back? The Chargers have played nine games vs teams with playoff aspirations.

Rivers is one of the top 10 QB's in the league.

Thebesteva

12-15-2014, 01:47 AM

I'm about ready to trade his ass. It's pointless to have a team whose floor is 7-9 and ceiling is 9-7.

It's hilarious looking back to 3 years ago when Phillip said he's ecstatic Manning is in 'HIS' division now. :lol

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 02:00 AM

How many teams in the league can beat the Broncos/New England back to back?

Even if we fluke our way into the playoffs again, we would need to beat at least one of those teams to have any chance of doing anything significant. When we can't even beat them at home with our defense on their usual December job-saving hot streak, I highly doubt we would stand a chance on the road. And an "elite" quarterback should be able to beat those teams, Rodgers certainly didn't have much trouble beating the Pats.

Robz4000

12-15-2014, 02:08 AM

Even if we fluke our way into the playoffs again, we would need to beat at least one of those teams to have any chance of doing anything significant. When we can't even beat them at home with our defense on their usual December job-saving hot streak, I highly doubt we would stand a chance on the road. And an "elite" quarterback should be able to beat those teams, Rodgers certainly didn't have much trouble beating the Pats.

That Pats game was pretty close all things considered. Also, Rodgers will prolly go down as an all-time great, while Rivers is merely a Top 5 QB in the league every other year.

Avante

12-15-2014, 02:09 AM

Even if we fluke our way into the playoffs again, we would need to beat at least one of those teams to have any chance of doing anything significant. When we can't even beat them at home, I highly doubt we would stand a chance on the road. And an "elite" quarterback should be able to beat those teams, Rodgers certainly didn't have much trouble beating the Pats.

Rodgers was one play away from losing to the Pats.

The Chargers played one of the toughest schedules in the league, that can't be ignored. Hell, to start off vs Arizona/Seattle, Denver twice, the Pats, the Bills/Dolphins on the road. The Ravens on the road, in...KC. That's tough.

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 02:16 AM

Rodgers was one play away from losing to the Pats.

The Chargers played one of the toughest schedules in the league, that can't be ignored. Hell, to start off vs Arizona/Seattle, Denver twice, the Pats, the Bills/Dolphins on the road. The Ravens on the road, in...KC. That's tough.
Still, a tough schedule shouldn't be enough to turn a "franchise QB" into a scrub.

Bottom line is that the last five seasons have been 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, 9-7, and looking like 9-7 again this year, with only one (fluke) playoff appearance in that span. Not good enough to win anything significant, not bad enough for favorable draft position. At some point the band-aid needs to be ripped off and veterans like Rivers, Weddle, and Gates need to be traded to contenders, because they aren't going to win anything with the Chargers.

Robz4000

12-15-2014, 02:19 AM

Still, a tough schedule shouldn't be enough to turn a "franchise QB" into a scrub.

Bottom line is that the last five seasons have been 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, 9-7, and looking like 9-7 again this year, with only one (fluke) playoff appearance in that span. Not good enough to win anything significant, not bad enough for favorable draft position. At some point the band-aid needs to be ripped off and veterans like Rivers, Weddle, and Gates need to be traded to contenders, because they aren't going to win anything with the Chargers.

I'm pretty sure the Chargers finish 10-6; Niners are playing mediocre and the Chiefs are pretty shitty all things considered. Need to hope the Texans beat the Steelers next week to get into the playoffs tho.

spurraider21

12-15-2014, 02:21 AM

are you seriously implying Philip Rivers isn't a franchise QB?

Avante

12-15-2014, 02:23 AM

Still, a tough schedule shouldn't be enough to turn a "franchise QB" into a scrub.

Bottom line is that the last five seasons have been 9-7, 8-8, 7-9, 9-7, and looking like 9-7 again this year, with only one (fluke) playoff appearance in that span. Not good enough to win anything significant, not bad enough for favorable draft position. At some point the band-aid needs to be ripped off and veterans like Rivers, Weddle, and Gates need to be traded to contenders, because they aren't going to win anything with the Chargers.

If the Niners had Rivers we'd be a serious SB contender this season.

The Chargers need a power back, another Natrone Means.

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 02:29 AM

are you seriously implying Philip Rivers isn't a franchise QB?
He certainly hasn't played like one since the bye week. Granted, he's been injured, but his decision-making has regressed all the way back to that horrible 2012 season.

If the Niners had Rivers we'd be a serious SB contender this season.

The Chargers need a power back, another Natrone Means.
The lack of a "power back" isn't the problem with the offense. Even Means would have eventually been rendered useless, because our offensive coordinator has spammed the same running plays on first and second down so many times now that running the ball at all has become a waste of a down because the entire league knows it's coming. Shit playcalling, shit decision-making by Rivers, Fluker turning into a bust, and the receivers' inability to get open are the offense's biggest problems.

HI-FI

12-15-2014, 02:31 AM

are you seriously implying Philip Rivers isn't a franchise QB?
you know the procedure, CN throws everyone under the bus except his god, LeTongue.

spurraider21

12-15-2014, 02:34 AM

He certainly hasn't played like one since the bye week. Granted, he's been injured, but his decision-making has regressed all the way back to that horrible 2012 season.
i think your standard for franchise QB is messed up. i dont think the standard for franchise QB should be elite NFL QB... imo having a franchise QB just means your team isn't in the market to replace their qb. guys like Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning... they're not elite but they're still franchise qb's

Avante

12-15-2014, 02:37 AM

He certainly hasn't played like one since the bye week. Granted, he's been injured, but his decision-making has regressed all the way back to that horrible 2012 season.

The lack of a "power back" isn't the problem with the offense. Even Means would have eventually been rendered useless, because our offensive coordinator has spammed the same running plays on first and second down so many times now that running the ball at all has become a waste of a down because the entire league knows it's coming. Shit playcalling, shit decision-making by Rivers, Fluker turning into a bust, and the receivers' inability to get open are the offense's biggest problems.

You'd be amazed what a big back does to a defense. Now add that third and short vs third and long. There are over 20 teams in the league that would be thrilled to have Rivers. Let this guy play with a lead and not in constant passing situations and we'd see a whole other deal.

Take away playing Denver/Pats and the Chargers were 8-4, hell two weeks ago the Seahawks...8-4.

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 02:38 AM

i think your standard for franchise QB is messed up. i dont think the standard for franchise QB should be elite NFL QB... imo having a franchise QB just means your team isn't in the market to replace their qb. guys like Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning... they're not elite but they're still franchise qb's

Yeah, that's fair. He's the franchise QB, but he's not really elite. Thing is, at age 33 with a perpetually mediocre team, it's still not really worth keeping him around.

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 02:42 AM

You'd be amazed what a big back does to a defense. Now add that third and short vs third and long. There are over 20 teams in the league that would be thrilled to have Rivers. Let this guy play with a lead and not in constant passing situations and we'd see a whole other deal.

You're missing the point as usual. The playcalling is what's really hurt the run game (as well as injuries to Woodhead and Mathews), not the lack of a Natrone Means type player. When you call the same exact running plays on first and second down every drive with zero adjustments ever, the league is going to wise up and shut it down.

If that many teams want Rivers, then we can get a boatload of picks for him. He's clearly not going to win more than 10 games a year anymore or have any deep playoff runs if he stays with the Chargers (as shown by the last five seasons), might as well start over with some new young talent.

Avante

12-15-2014, 02:45 AM

Yeah, that's fair. He's the franchise QB, but he's not really elite. Thing is, at age 33 with a perpetually mediocre team, it's still not really worth keeping him around.

Phillip Rivers is without question an elite QB.

Peyton Manning lost to St. Louis. Tom Brady lost to the Chiefs. Big Ben lost to.......THE JETS! Aaron Rodger lost to the Saints.

Losing to Denver/NE is no disgrace.

spurraider21

12-15-2014, 02:46 AM

Yeah, that's fair. He's the franchise QB, but he's not really elite. Thing is, at age 33 with a perpetually mediocre team, it's still not really worth keeping him around.
i don't see the benefit of parting ways with Rivers right now. they don't have better alternatives or an heir apparent in place. i'm sure you would like to have an elite QB, but so do 27 other teams :lol... that's the nature of "elite" anything. there is some concern though because i dont sense any sort of identity on offense. Keenan allen hasn't been as good as most thought he'd be this year. his numbers have been better in the 2nd half, but watching the games, they're just force feeding him high% looks. his yards per catch are startlingly low, especially for a guy who was bulled as a legit #1 WR/superstar. in the meantime Gates and Floyd are just getting older, and they still lean on Eddie Royal quite a bit. the run game has been mediocre. the o-line has been unstable.

i get the notion of "wasting" years with a QB, but i just dont see how parting with rivers helps them for now or the future, unless they have a guy in place

Avante

12-15-2014, 02:47 AM

You're missing the point as usual. The playcalling is what's really hurt the run game (as well as injuries to Woodhead and Mathews), not the lack of a Natrone Means type player. When you call the same exact running plays on first and second down every drive with zero adjustments ever, the league is going to wise up and shut it down.

If that many teams want Rivers, then we can get a boatload of picks for him. He's clearly not going to win more than 10 games a year anymore or have any deep playoff runs if he stays with the Chargers (as shown by the last five seasons), might as well start over with some new young talent.

I had a feeling you wouldn't get it, you don't.

Whatever guy.

Rivers has had six 4000 plus seasons, he has a career comp % of 64.8 and a passer rating of....96.4. 115td/81int.

Those are Hall of Fame numbers.

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 02:53 AM

i don't see the benefit of parting ways with Rivers right now. they don't have better alternatives or an heir apparent in place. i'm sure you would like to have an elite QB, but so do 27 other teams :lol... that's the nature of "elite" anything. there is some concern though because i dont sense any sort of identity on offense. Keenan allen hasn't been as good as most thought he'd be this year. his numbers have been better in the 2nd half, but watching the games, they're just force feeding him high% looks. his yards per catch are startlingly low, especially for a guy who was bulled as a legit #1 WR/superstar. in the meantime Gates and Floyd are just getting older, and they still lean on Eddie Royal quite a bit. the run game has been mediocre. the o-line has been unstable.

i get the notion of "wasting" years with a QB, but i just dont see how parting with rivers helps them for now or the future, unless they have a guy in place
Thing is, the 7-9 win treadmill hasn't exactly helped us for now or the future. We've stuck with Rivers in the five years since Kaeding missed all those field goals, but the team really hasn't improved at all during that timespan and just lacks too much talent on both sides of the ball. AJ's cap mismanagement and being forced into a win-now mindset with Rivers, Gates, and Weddle has prevented us from truly developing young talent or filling holes on the roster. Right now we're in a similar position to the Sharks - a franchise that really should rebuild, but is too paralyzed by fear of the unknown and emotional attachment to aging core players (Rivers/Gates/Weddle, Thornton/Marleau) to actually grow a pair and do it.

vander

12-15-2014, 03:00 AM

well, Manning is like 40 and still rollin, so we should get another 5 years at least out of Rivers. just need to add a cowboys level OL, a legit #1 WR like Dez, A dangerous RB like Murray...

spurraider21

12-15-2014, 03:01 AM

Thing is, the 7-9 win treadmill hasn't exactly helped us for now or the future. We've stuck with Rivers in the five years since Kaeding missed all those field goals, but the team really hasn't improved at all during that timespan and just lacks too much talent on both sides of the ball. AJ's cap mismanagement and being forced into a win-now mindset with Rivers, Gates, and Weddle has prevented us from truly developing young talent or filling holes on the roster. Right now we're in a similar position to the Sharks - a franchise that really should rebuild, but is too paralyzed by fear of the unknown and emotional attachment to aging core players (Rivers/Gates/Weddle, Thornton/Marleau) to actually grow a pair and do it.
then they should scrap the old core, but QB's can keep playing effectively up until retirement, especially the good ones. the mediocre ones just fall off a cliff (Schaub, Delhomme, Plummer, Cutler...?) but the good ones can keep playing. imo it started going downhill when they lost VJax and Sproles

Rivers is a keeper

Clipper Nation

12-15-2014, 03:08 AM

well, Manning is like 40 and still rollin, so we should get another 5 years at least out of Rivers.
And the Colts wisely moved on from Fivehead when they realized they needed to rebuild.

just need to add a cowboys level OL, a legit #1 WR like Dez, A dangerous RB like Murray...
Good luck getting all of that with shit draft position every single year. A big reason why Dallas' O-line is good is because they got Tyron Smith (Pro Bowl tackle) 9th overall. Can't get talent like that when you're winning 9 games every year and just barely missing the playoffs.

spurraider21

12-15-2014, 03:12 AM

And the Colts wisely moved on from Fivehead when they realized they needed to rebuild.
literally the only reason they moved on was because the Andrew Luck pick fell into their lap. otherwise they wouldn't have cut Peyton.

Good luck getting all of that with shit draft position every single year. A big reason why Dallas' O-line is good is because they got Tyron Smith (Pro Bowl tackle) 9th overall. Can't get talent like that when you're winning 9 games every year and just barely missing the playoffs.
yeah that was funny. they "just" need to get an elite OL unit, RB, and superstar WR. thats all :lol

Tyron Smith was 9th overall but you guys took Fluker #11 overall.

BatManu20

12-15-2014, 03:24 AM

Rivers is a pretty solid NFL QB tbh... Look around the league. There really aren't many "Great" QB's. A-Rod, Brady, Manning, Brees, Luck... Then 2nd tier guys like Roethlisberger, Rivers, Romo, Flacco, maaaybe Wilson..

Rivers is a top 10 QB in this league. Would you rather draft a rookie and start from scratch? Nonsense. The Chargers have much bigger issues than Rivers. From every game I've watched, their O-Line gets beat repeatedly (I called Fluker being a bust as soon as he was drafted), and on top of that they don't have a true #1 WR. Gates is clearly not the same player he once was at TE. I think Rivers is the best thing you have going for you as a Chargers fan, tbh. He's one of the top competitors in the league, even if he does make some crucial mistakes. It's damn hard to find a franchise QB in the NFL, hence the number of busts you see year in and year out.

N0 LyF3 ScRuB

12-15-2014, 09:45 AM

Tolbert was perfect for you guys. He has been great for us

Thread

12-15-2014, 12:01 PM

Not as long as Cowherd is singing his praises. Once he sells him out like he has Kapernick then you can run him off.

spurraider21

12-15-2014, 12:36 PM

Not as long as Cowherd is singing his praises. Once he sells him out like he has Kapernick then you can run him off.
You think Colin is that influential as far as how teams operate?

Avante

12-21-2014, 04:24 AM

Tonight is way ya don't over react to every damn thing, week to week, sheash~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rivers looked like what he is an elite QB.

Rookies, sheesh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

vander

12-21-2014, 10:50 AM

Tonight is way ya don't over react to every damn thing, week to week, sheash~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rivers looked like what he is an elite QB.

Rookies, sheesh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you're overreacting to and misinterpreting yesterdays game, the niners gave it away, they are terrible, they would have lost to anyone.

Silver&Black

12-21-2014, 12:45 PM

Vander...they wouldn't of lost to this team:

<-----

N0 LyF3 ScRuB

12-21-2014, 12:47 PM

Not this team:

<-----

Just to shut these annoying Chargers 'fans' up, what would you trade to have Rivers?

N0 LyF3 ScRuB

12-21-2014, 12:47 PM

you're overreacting to and misinterpreting yesterdays game, the niners gave it away, they are terrible, they would have lost to anyone.

horrible take

Silver&Black

12-21-2014, 12:48 PM

Just to shut these annoying Chargers 'fans' up, what would you trade to have Rivers?

My soul....my first born....you get the point.

Clipper Nation

12-21-2014, 01:23 PM

Just to shut these annoying Chargers 'fans' up, what would you trade to have Rivers?
:lmao Frizzle calling any other fan annoying

Clipper Nation

12-21-2014, 01:24 PM

Tonight is way ya don't over react to every damn thing, week to week, sheash~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rivers looked like what he is an elite QB.

Rookies, sheesh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're overreacting to that game. It was one mediocre, average team against another one.

Blizzardwizard

12-21-2014, 03:12 PM

Just to shut these annoying Chargers 'fans' up, what would you trade to have Rivers?
Translation:
But but but :cry
Cum goes onto the field while inactive, he's such a hero :cry

Avante

12-22-2014, 10:54 AM

You're overreacting to that game. It was one mediocre, average team against another one.

You don't appear to understand how any of this stuff works at all, wow~~~~~~~

LkrFan

12-22-2014, 07:23 PM

:lmao

Clipper Nation

03-17-2015, 06:14 PM

Bumping this up. With Rivers starting to make noise about how he's only willing to play out his contract and not willing to talk about an extension, as well as rumors flying around of Rivers getting traded and his back injury being a lot worse than anyone was letting on, it's looking like the Rivers era is coming to an end.

I personally hate the rumored trade of Rivers to the Titans for the second overall pick and drafting Mariota with it. First of all, Mariota is nothing but a gimmick and certainly isn't a franchise QB worthy of a top-two pick. Second of all, one draft pick is not nearly enough for Rivers when there's bound to be other desperate teams willing to offer more.

MultiTroll

03-17-2015, 09:27 PM

^^^ 2nd overall not good enough?
No way in hell teams will offer more then that.
Since you dont like Mariota, which QB do you like?

I wanted that Ohio State QB.

Clipper Nation

03-17-2015, 10:04 PM

^^^ 2nd overall not good enough?
No way in hell teams will offer more then that.
Since you dont like Mariota, which QB do you like?

I wanted that Ohio State QB.
Denver got two first-round picks for Jay Cutler, I'm pretty sure we can get more than one first-rounder for Rivers.

I actually like Jameis if he can stop being a fucking idiot off the field, as he's actually been asked to play in a pro-style offense and read defenses, but he's going first overall. Barring that, I'm not impressed with any of the other quarterbacks in the draft.

MultiTroll

03-17-2015, 10:23 PM

Denver got two first-round picks for Jay Cutler, I'm pretty sure we can get more than one first-rounder for Rivers.

I actually like Jameis if he can stop being a fucking idiot off the field, as he's actually been asked to play in a pro-style offense and read defenses, but he's going first overall. Barring that, I'm not impressed with any of the other quarterbacks in the draft.
Wonder if they could take Mariota and trade him to a team that wants him? In exchange for multiple picks or a kick ass lineman.