If the US is really that bad....

[CosmicCowboy]

Why is it that it seems like 3/4 of the world population wants to immigrate here?

[Th'Pusher]

A thread based on a strawman.

Cool.

[boutons_deux]

the American plutocratic kleptocracy is working hard to degrade USA for the 99% so it will be unattractive to, as shitty as CC's mythical 3/4 of the countries.

[boutons_deux]

The 6-Step Process to Dispose of the Poor Half of America


1. Deplete Their Wealth

Recent analysis (http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/more-evidence-that-half-of-america-is-in-or-near-poverty/18551-more-evidence-that-half-of-america-is-in-or-near-poverty) has determined that half of America is in or near poverty. This is confirmed by researchers Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman (http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/SaezZucman2014.pdf), who point out: "The bottom half of the distribution always owns close to zero wealth on net. Hence, the bottom 90% wealth share is the same as the share of wealth owned by top 50-90% families - what can be described as the middle class."

The United States has one of the highest poverty rates (http://www.epi.org/publication/ib339-us-poverty-higher-safety-net-weaker/) in the developed world (http://www.stateofworkingamerica.org/chart/swa-poverty-figure-7w-relative-poverty-rate/). It's much worse since the recession, especially for blacks and Hispanics (http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/07/14/economic-lynching).

From 2008 to 2013 the stock market, which is largely owned (http://epi.3cdn.net/2a7ccb3e9e618f0bbc_3nm6idnax.pdf) by just 10% of Americans, gained 18% per year (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/25/business/economy/sp-has-more-than-doubled-under-obama.html?_r=0). Well-to-do stockholders get capital gains tax breaks, including a carried interest subsidy thatRobert Reich (http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/09/wall-streets-democrats) calls "a pure scam."

The bottom half of America, relying on regular bank accounts, earn about one percent (http://www.thesimpledollar.com/why-are-savings-account-rates-so-low/) on their savings.

2. Strip Away Their Income

Earnings due to workers for their years of productivity have been withheld by people in power. Based on inflation, the minimum wage should be nearly three times (http://inequality.org/minimum-wage/) its current level. An investor report from J.P. Morgan noted (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/14/269213/report-corporate-profits-wage-cuts/) a direct correlation between record profits and cutbacks in wages.

We hear occasional news about job growth, but low-wage jobs (http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Job_Creation/LowWageRecovery2012.pdf?nocdn=1) ($7.69 to $13.83 per hour), which made up just 1/5 of the jobs lost to the recession, accounted for nearly 3/5 of the jobs regained during the recovery. And it's getting worse. Nine out of ten of the fastest-growing occupations (http://www.bls.gov/ooh/most-new-jobs.htm) are considered low-wage, generally not requiring a college degree, including (http://www.nelp.org/page/content/Unbalanced-Recovery/) food service, health care, housekeeping, and retail sales.

Among rich countries, according to OECD data, the U.S. is near the bottom (http://www.alternet.org/labor/youre-likely-be-lot-poorer-you-were-few-years-ago-and-its-all-design) in both union participation (http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=UN_DEN)and employee protection (http://www.oecd.org/employment/emp/oecdindicatorsofemploymentprotection.htm#data) laws.

3. Take Away Their Homes

A study (http://nlihc.org/oor/2014) by the National Low Income Housing Coalition concluded that an average American renter would need to earn $18.92 per hour -- well over twice the minimum wage -- to afford a two-bedroom apartment. "In no state," their report says, "can a full-time minimum wage worker afford a one-bedroom or a two-bedroom rental unit at Fair Market Rent." Over one-eighth (http://nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place) of the nation’s supply of low income housing has been permanently lost since 2001.

Little wonder that so many people are homeless (http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/10/14/ten-facts-about-being-homeless-usa): over 600,000 (https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/ahar-2013-part1.pdf) on any January night in the U.S., tens of thousands of children, tens of thousands of veterans, and one of every five suffering from mental illness.

4. Hit Them with Fines, Fees, and Fleecings

The poor half of America is victimized by the banking (https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2014/rarc-wp-14-007.pdf) industry, which takes an average of $2,412 each year from underserved households for interest and fees on alternative financial services; byrental centers (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-america-why-the-poor-pay-dollar4158-for-a-dollar1500-%E2%80%98rent-to-own%E2%80%99-sofa/ar-BB9w32K) that charge effective annual interest rates over 100 percent; by payday lenders (http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2014/08/john-oliver-examines-the-resilience-of-payday-loans/375850/) whocharge (http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2009/200933/200933pap.pdf) effective annual interest rates (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/the-trap-of-payday-loans-can-lead-to-triple-digit-interest-rates/2014/03/25/ca1853dc-b471-11e3-8cb6-284052554d74_story.html) of over 1,000 percent; and by the burgeoning prison industry (http://truth-out.org/news/item/27138-public-prisons-private-profits%20/%20%20http://truth-out.org/news/item/27306-the-shackles-return-why-debtors-prisons-are-making-an-american-comeback), which charges prisoners for food and health care and phone calls and probation monitoring and anything else they can think of.

On top of all this, bubbly TV personalities rave about all the lottery money just waiting to be taken home. Poor families account for most (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/02/25/3326421/state-lottery-education/) of the lottery sales.

5. Criminalize Them

Matt Taibbi's recently published book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divide:_American_Injustice_in_the_Age_of_the_W ealth_Gap) The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gapcontrasts the targeting of the poor for trivial offenses with a tolerance for the architects of billion-dollar financial crimes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-divide-american-injustice-in-the-age-of-the-wealth-gap-by-matt-taibbi/2014/04/11/66a1e7c8-b291-11e3-8cb6-284052554d74_story.html).

The U.S. court system is flooded (http://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-is-swift-as-petty-crimes-clog-courts-1417404782) with cases for minor infractions, including loitering charges reminiscent of the infamous Black Codes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_%28United_States%29) of post-slavery years. The buildup of arrests has added one out of every three U.S. adults to the FBI's criminal database.

The poor are criminalized (http://www.nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place) for lying down or sleeping in public; for sharing food; for simply havingnowhere to go (http://www.nlchp.org/documents/No_Safe_Place).

6. Most Insidious: Let Their Children Suffer

The U.S. has one of the highest relative child poverty rates (http://www.aecf.org/blog/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-measuring-poverty-in-america/) in the developed world. Almost half (http://stateofworkingamerica.org/fact-sheets/poverty/) of black children under the age of six are living in poverty. Nearly half of all food stamp (http://blogs.usda.gov/2011/06/24/fact-vs-fiction-usda%E2%80%99s-supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/) participants are children. The number of homeless children (http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/11/17/study-more-homeless-children-now-any-point-us-history) has risen by 50 percent (http://www.homelesschildrenamerica.org/mediadocs/280.pdf) in less than ten years.

Early education is certainly part of the solution, for numerous studies (http://www.nieer.org/news-events/news-releases/nieer-statement-president-obama%E2%80%99s-pre-k-proposal) have shown that pre-school helps all children to achieve more and earn more through adulthood, with the most disadvantaged benefiting the most. But even though the U.S. ranks near the bottom of developed countries (http://www.oecd.org/unitedstates/CN%20-%20United%20States.pdf) in the percentage of 4-year-olds in early childhood education, Head Start was recently hit with the worst cutbacks (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/19/stateline-head-start/2671309/) in its history.

Meanwhile, public schools in the inner-city are being closed to satisfy the profit urges of the privatizers, who view our children as commodities.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/6-step-process-dispose-poor-half-america?akid=12576.187590.lZcWB3&rd=1&src=newsletter1028681&t=10&paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

[CosmicCowboy]

it's a pretty simple formula, really.

Don't apply yourself to getting a good education.
Don't apply yourself to learning a skill
Don't develop a good work ethic.

Don't expect a "good" job.

The worst schools and school districts in SA still have their fair share of National Merit scholars and kids that go on to good careers.

[pgardn]

I pity the fool who does not realize how lucky he is to be born here.

Especially if you are a white, male, and born parents who instill the directives from the post directly above.
Preferably parents; emphasize the plural.

Never ever forget good fortune.

[boutons_deux]

I pity the fool who does not realize how lucky he is to be born here.

Especially if you are a white, male, and born parents who instill the directives from the post directly above.
Preferably parents; emphasize the plural.

Never ever forget good fortune.

yep, compare USA with dogshit countries, USA smells like a rose, so the 1% can continue plundering, raping the 99% because, as stink tank Heritage spins it, the US poor aren't really poor until they become like street beggars in Mumbai.

[pgardn]

yep, compare USA with dogshit countries, USA smells like a rose, so the 1% can continue plundering, raping the 99% because, as stink tank Heritage spins it, the US poor aren't really poor until they become like street beggars in Mumbai.

You need to travel.
Get out of the house.
I think you would like Norway if you are old.

[pgardn]

And boots, no Republican or 1% er who cares about the future takes pleasure in witnessing so much disparity in wealth as to cause social chaos. The question has always been why it exists, and if it does lead to large scale insurrection where all suffer the consequences, how to prevent the phenomena.

[boutons_deux]

You need to travel.
Get out of the house.
I think you would like Norway if you are old.

I've travelled A LOT, and lived, worked outside of USA, so GFY

[boutons_deux]

And boots, no Republican or 1% er who cares about the future takes pleasure in witnessing so much disparity in wealth as to cause social chaos. The question has always been why it exists, and if it does lead to large scale insurrection where all suffer the consequences, how to prevent the phenomena.

the 1% doesn't give the tiniest fuck. That's why they want to kill public schools for profit, kill public assistance, steal Soc Sec, and violate public/private pension contracts. They just don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves.

[angrydude]

it's a pretty simple formula, really.

Don't apply yourself to getting a good education.
Don't apply yourself to learning a skill
Don't develop a good work ethic.

Don't expect a "good" job.

The worst schools and school districts in SA still have their fair share of National Merit scholars and kids that go on to good careers.

Education, work ethic, and skills don't mean shit when there aren't any jobs for younger people. Older people not retiring because they don't have any money to support themselves is a big reason why.

Part time work is the only type of job the USA makes anymore.

[pgardn]

the 1% doesn't give the tiniest fuck. That's why they want to kill public schools for profit, kill public assistance, steal Soc Sec, and violate public/private pension contracts. They just don't give a fuck about anybody but themselves.

Then they don't give an f about themselves. If that's the prevalent thought they are doomed.

[pgardn]

I've travelled A LOT, and lived, worked outside of USA, so GFY

Where and why are you back in this shithole?

[pgardn]

Education, work ethic, and skills don't mean shit when there aren't any jobs for younger people. Older people not retiring because they don't have any money to support themselves is a big reason why.

Part time work is the only type of job the USA makes anymore.

Technology is partially responsible.
I suggest you strike out on your own. Find an area of need that you can fill that involves money. May I suggest technology. Yes I may because I just did. Realize this is very risky and might require you losing $ before you make any. You might very well be totally on your own until you have established some trust among others through hard working failed attempts.

[CosmicCowboy]

Education, work ethic, and skills don't mean shit when there aren't any jobs for younger people. Older people not retiring because they don't have any money to support themselves is a big reason why.

Part time work is the only type of job the USA makes anymore.

That is total bullshit.

I'm hiring kids in their early 20's for full time TRAINING positions who have a track record of being drug free and staying steadily employed while being willing to learn new skills and not being afraid of work and starting them at $16.50 an hour plus 100% of health insurance paid. If they fit in they are making close to $20 in a year and 30+ in five. Every other employer I talk to has the same complaint...they can't find kids with a good work ethic to train to replace the old guys that are retiring.

[CosmicCowboy]

I do new hires on a two month probationary period and give them weekly feedback on their progress. I was looking for 2 new hires in 2014 and despite culling through literally hundreds of applicants I ended up with eight probationary hires to get the two that actually wanted to really work and learn and build a career.

[boutons_deux]

That is total bullshit.

I'm hiring kids in their early 20's for full time TRAINING positions who have a track record of being drug free and staying steadily employed while being willing to learn new skills and not being afraid of work and starting them at $16.50 an hour plus 100% of health insurance paid. If they fit in they are making close to $20 in a year and 30+ in five. Every other employer I talk to has the same complaint...they can't find kids with a good work ethic to train to replace the old guys that are retiring.

yeah, "I'm OK, so Everybody's OK"

"Other People's Problems don't exist, and they're all criminals and lazy asses anyway. Everybody has the same opportunities, advantages, financially well-off, educated parents, so if you don't make it, you blew your chance, so fuck you"

[CosmicCowboy]

yeah, "I'm OK, so Everybody's OK"

"Other People's Problems don't exist, and they're all criminals and lazy asses anyway."

cry me a river Boo. Hell, there are HEB managers making big six figures that started out bagging groceries part time.

[boutons_deux]

and what about the other 9,999 baggers still making in the low 5 figs? :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

and what about the other 9,999 baggers still making in the low 5 figs? :lol


you should work harder and be more responsible.

[ElNono]

Education, work ethic, and skills don't mean shit when there aren't any jobs for younger people. Older people not retiring because they don't have any money to support themselves is a big reason why.

Part time work is the only type of job the USA makes anymore.

It's not just younger people...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2014/01/31/the-ugly-truth-about-age-discrimination/

[boutons_deux]

you should work harder and be more responsible.

you're as tone deaf and as misinformed as dickhead

[CosmicCowboy]

you're as tone deaf and as misinformed as dickhead

:lol

You should have paid more attention in school and then picked a major you could actually make a living at. You might not have turned out as such a bitter old failure.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not just younger people...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2014/01/31/the-ugly-truth-about-age-discrimination/

This is absolutely true. Sad but true. Any job that requires years of training to be competent is going to favor youth over age. Factor in age based health care premiums/cost and unemployed in their late 50's and early 60's are fucked.

[CosmicCowboy]

That being said, anyone reasonably healthy that can pass a drug sreen can go to truck driving school and in two months be making 80K+ a year right now in Texas. I have zero sympathy for healthy people that say they can't find a job anywhere.

[ElNono]

This is absolutely true. Sad but true. Any job that requires years of training to be competent is going to favor youth over age. Factor in age based health care premiums/cost and unemployed in their late 50's and early 60's are fucked.

It's not even that... Plenty of people that already have years of training and even on-the-job experience gets passed over... I think there's many factors, including being much easier to take advantage of kids when it comes to working overtime, and some of the other stuff you listed...

[ElNono]

That being said, anyone reasonably healthy that can pass a drug sreen can go to truck driving school and in two months be making 80K+ a year right now in Texas. I have zero sympathy for healthy people that say they can't find a job anywhere.

Not very familiar with truck driving... but isn't that the kind of job that keeps you away from family?

FWIW, the average truck driver salary in Texas is $50k... not sure where did you get the 80K figure...

[boutons_deux]

it pays so well for such a shitty lifestyle, that there's a huge deficit in big rig drivers, seems like money ain't big enough to offset the shitty lifestyle, Smokey Bear

"According to these new rules, a truck driver can drive for a maximum of 11 continuous hours, in a 14-hour work day, after which they are required to take a mandatory rest period of 10 hours before getting behind the wheel of their truck again. In any seven-day period, the truck can be on the road for 60-77 hours, and in an eight-day period, the truck can be driven between 70-88 hours. If the truck and its driver have been off the road for two and a half days continuously, they then can start their week at zero hours."

http://www.legalinfo.com/content/truck-accidents/does-federal-law-limit-the-hours-that-a-truck-can-be-on-the-road.html

[boutons_deux]

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-big-rig-truck-driver-jobs.html

[ElNono]

article on automation, which is related:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/upshot/as-robots-grow-smarter-american-workers-struggle-to-keep-up.html

[CosmicCowboy]

Not very familiar with truck driving... but isn't that the kind of job that keeps you away from family?

FWIW, the average truck driver salary in Texas is $50k... not sure where did you get the 80K figure...

Google is your friend. Just look at the companies running ads.

[CosmicCowboy]

The guys running tankers in South Texas are knocking down at least that and more. If average includes all drivers in Texas maybe your $50K AVERAGE is accurate. San Antonio is definitely South Texas and those jobs are available to anyone with a CDL that can pass a drug screen and most companies will pay for them getting the CDL...and even if it was $50,000 a year those jobs are still available to those that want to work.

[ElNono]

Google is your friend. Just look at the companies running ads.

I did.

http://www.indeed.com/salary/Truck-Driver.html
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/truck-driver-salary-SRCH_KO0,12.htm
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/heavy-and-tractor-trailer-truck-drivers.htm

2011, per state breakdown:
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckerreport.html

Interesting read:
http://www.truckingtruth.com/trucking_blogs/Article-2678/my-2010-salary-finishing-up-my-second-year-behind-the-wheel

That's not to say there's specific areas where you can make some more, but I think the expectations should probably be towards the median, not the outliers...

[CosmicCowboy]

I did.

http://www.indeed.com/salary/Truck-Driver.html
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/truck-driver-salary-SRCH_KO0,12.htm
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/heavy-and-tractor-trailer-truck-drivers.htm

2011, per state breakdown:
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckerreport.html

Interesting read:
http://www.truckingtruth.com/trucking_blogs/Article-2678/my-2010-salary-finishing-up-my-second-year-behind-the-wheel

That's not to say there's specific areas where you can make some more, but I think the expectations should probably be towards the median, not the outliers...

Lets assume your low number is correct. There are jobs going begging that pay $50,000+ that don't require anything but a heartbeat, and a driver that can pass a drug test. Some will even give a $5000 signing bonus and train them.

So all you guys crying a river because young, old, black, brown, etc. can't get a good job because they just aren't available are dead wrong.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hell, I have a nephew that is borderline idiot that got a job two years ago with a fracking company doing manual labor and two years later he is the safety officer for one mancamp dispatch yard pulling down 75K a year.

[Th'Pusher]

Hell, I have a nephew that is borderline idiot...two years later he is the safety officer for one mancamp

That's nice.

[mingus]

Jobs are around people just don't want THOSE jobs. If less people came out of college with degrees in communication, psychology, political science and the arts there'd probably be more opportunities for them. What's more or at least just as important is having a skill that's sought after and a great work ethic. Too much of a premium has been put on getting a degree and not the right degree. A degree means nothing if it doesn't teach you a skill that is in demand. Another thing is having patience. A degree isn't necessarily a ticket to your dream or even career job. If you're educated but don't have much work experience or any, be patient and get a job in any fucking field and build a decent work résumé. Not saying the economy hasn't been shit and isn't the sole or primary reason some people have been fucked in the ass. But "some" isn't not "most" and I feel a lot of people have fucked themselves more than the economy has fucked them but don't want too look in the mirror and would rather point fingers and use the economy as a scapegoat.

[ElNono]

Lets assume your low number is correct. There are jobs going begging that pay $50,000+ that don't require anything but a heartbeat, and a driver that can pass a drug test. Some will even give a $5000 signing bonus and train them.

So all you guys crying a river because young, old, black, brown, etc. can't get a good job because they just aren't available are dead wrong.

C'mon CC, we're not "crying a river"...

For starters, you'll need a truck. You could lease, but that means you're basically committing to that, and from what I read the profit margins are extremely thin, which makes leasing a even riskier proposition.

But it's besides the point. You could get jobs at Walmart, McDonalds, picking fruits in the field... but unless that's your thing, they're just dead end jobs. How long until you're replaced with a cheap mexican trucker?

I think what angrydude was pointing out is that kids are spending a shitload of money training for good, career jobs that are not there anymore or are just available part-time.

We trained a lot of people for alleged "jobs of the future" like IT, graphic design, etc... they're capable, experienced people, some of them with a lot of years in the field, but nowadays they can't compete with India's pay scale or standard of living.

There's many factors at play, and certainly some people being lax is one of them, but the job market, when it comes to good quality jobs, is really fucked up right now, IMO.

[Wild Cobra]

There's many factors at play, and certainly some people being lax is one of them, but the job market, when it comes to good quality jobs, is really fucked up right now, IMO.

So, do you agree that global free trade is a bad idea?

[ElNono]

So, do you agree that global free trade is a bad idea?

Never been a fan of all-out "globalization"... I also don't like full-blown isolationism... there should be a middle-ground.

[Wild Cobra]

Never been a fan of all-out "globalization"... I also don't like full-blown isolationism... there should be a middle-ground.
Yep.

They are called tariffs.

[ElNono]

There's no silver bullet, IMO. Tariffs would address trade concerns, but likely won't do anything to deter outsourcing service jobs, and cause other side effects, like effectively reducing our own standard of living through inflation.

Market purists will also probably complain, as tariffs are a distortion of the free market. It's a complex, multi-pronged problem that will require a multi-pronged solution.

I think the we're undergoing the free-market solution: wait it out. As other economies grow due to the high demand, theoretically their standard of living goes up, making them less competitive and thus, us more competitive again. The problem I have with this rationale is that it assumes the competition also works in the free market, but that's largely not true. Countries like China, India, etc apply fairly big market distortions themselves to remain competitive and perpetuate the cycle.

[Cry Havoc]

There's no silver bullet, IMO. Tariffs would address trade concerns, but likely won't do anything to deter outsourcing service jobs, and cause other side effects, like effectively reducing our own standard of living through inflation.

Market purists will also probably complain, as tariffs are a distortion of the free market. It's a complex, multi-pronged problem that will require a multi-pronged solution.

I think the we're undergoing the free-market solution: wait it out. As other economies grow due to the high demand, theoretically their standard of living goes up, making them less competitive and thus, us more competitive again. The problem I have with this rationale is that it assumes the competition also works in the free market, but that's largely not true. Countries like China, India, etc apply fairly big market distortions themselves to remain competitive and perpetuate the cycle.

Pfff. No. Wild Cobra knows all. These problems are simple and he can solve them all by uttering a single word. That's how brilliant he is. Economists with doctorates who have studied and postulated their entire lives just aren't up to the task.

[ElNono]

A lot of those people come here to escape poverty. The US is creating that poverty.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145531

They would rather go to a rich country that hadn't created the poverty in their country but it's not that easy if you're poor so they go to the rich country that created the poverty in their country.

There's a lot of work here because American products need so much maintenance.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240413

American products are designed to have a short life so there's a lot of factory work to make more products. If the US had to buy all of stuff it steals from the third world, it would have to make products with a much longer life and there wouldn't be so many jobs but without theft by the US, there wouldn't be so much poverty abroad and there would be fewer poor people trying to immigrate here.

That's a different topic for a different thread... which is why they're on a different thread already.

[ElNono]

Pfff. No. Wild Cobra knows all. These problems are simple and he can solve them all by uttering a single word. That's how brilliant he is. Economists with doctorates who have studied and postulated their entire lives just aren't up to the task.

He's certainly entitled to his opinion, he'll get that from me.

[boutons_deux]

Economists with doctorates who have studied and postulated their entire lives just aren't up to the task.

As a class they are mostly useless sycophants of the Fed, as in totally missing the housing/credit bubble of the mid 2000s, just like Greenspan.

[Wild Cobra]

I expect inflation. We have become complacent in lower prices, and are selling our national soul for these cheap ,imports, at the expense of manufacturing jobs. It is a necessary step to address trade.

[CosmicCowboy]

We just jacked up tariffs on Chinese solar panels yesterday. End result is solar gets more expensive while oil gets cheaper. Some real bright minds at work there in Washington.

[boutons_deux]

We just jacked up tariffs on Chinese solar panels yesterday. End result is solar gets more expensive while oil gets cheaper. Some real bright minds at work there in Washington.

so you would let China kill the US solar mfrs like they killed so many US mfr sectors?

[CosmicCowboy]

so you would let China kill the US solar mfrs like they killed so many US mfr sectors?

So you would rather kill the planet with CO2?

Pick a side, Boo...:lol

[boutons_deux]

So you would rather kill the planet with CO2?

Pick a side, Boo...:lol

what side I'm on is clear. carbon taxes everywhere, including on vehicles.

[CosmicCowboy]

what side I'm on it clear. carbon taxes everywhere, including on vehicles.

fucking dreamy global communist.

[Wild Cobra]

We just jacked up tariffs on Chinese solar panels yesterday. End result is solar gets more expensive while oil gets cheaper. Some real bright minds at work there in Washington.
Call it what you will, but we need tariffs on stuff that US industries make, so we can keep jobs here.

[angrydude]

Free trade is good.

Globalization isn't.

[boutons_deux]

fucking dreamy global communist.

carbon tax would ADVANCE our future, your carbon-loving oil fantasies lead to hell.

[DMC]

The reason the US is a decent country is because people didn't sit around hundreds of years ago thinking "if the Brits are so bad, why are people still coming here?" and "If witch burning is so bad, why are people still coming here?" and "if slavery is so bad, why are people still coming here?". Think about it, law of the excluded middle doesn't work here.

[DMC]

Call it what you will, but we need tariffs on stuff that US industries make, so we can keep jobs here.
I don't get your point here. Tariffs are on imported goods. Are you saying that US industries that manufacture things abroad need to have their goods taxed to compete with themselves locally?

[boutons_deux]

I don't get your point here. Tariffs are on imported goods. Are you saying that US industries that manufacture things abroad need to have their goods taxed to compete with themselves locally?

yep, the Chinese have held down their currency vs US$ to make their goods cheaper.

Compounded with the low-cost labor and low-cost of doing business (eg, Ms of Chinese sick and dead from pollution), US mfrs gained an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE building in China and re-imported tariff/duty-free to US.

Just because it's US mfrs dumping their products on the USA doesn't mean it's not dumping. Chinese mfrs dumping solar panels on USA are now tariffed.

Same with US Ag dumping Ms of tons of cheap, subsidized, tarif-free factory corn on MX, destroying 10Ks of subsistence farms, pushing those farmers to look for income in USA.

What BigCorp achieved over the past 40 years with their globalization (also of free movement/sloshing of capital) has destroyed much of the mfr-ing base in USA AND killed Ms of US jobs. Many were UNION jobs which was also an objective of the VRWC globalization strategy, destroy the Power of The People vs BigCorp. Of course, BigCorp and their investors (capitalists) have profited enormously from destroying US labor and US unions.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Hell, I have a nephew that is borderline idiot that ... is the safety officer for one mancamp dispatch yard pulling down 75K a year.

What could go wrong

[Infinite_limit]

Why is it that it seems like 3/4 of the world population wants to immigrate here?
English is very easy to learn (no school needed) and easy to pull off for employment because there are so many variations in dialect.

3/4 of the worlds population would want to immigrate to any and every White nation.

[Infinite_limit]

I pity the fool who does not realize how lucky he is to be born here.

Especially if you are a white, male, and born parents who instill the directives from the post directly above.
Preferably parents; emphasize the plural.

Never ever forget good fortune.
There are atleast 10 nations I rather be born a White Male, than in the USA. You can't hide in a gated community all your life

[Nbadan]

If gas prices stay at $2.00 per gallon, we are going to see just how ''reliable" these oil patch jobs really are....

[Nbadan]

CC is right though....keep your nose to the grindstone.....pass a drug test...and work on character and your reputation of always doing the right thing and you can do well out there...but it is easier if you have that Masters or PHD..

[boutons_deux]

CC is right though....keep your nose to the grindstone.....pass a drug test...and work on character and your reputation of always doing the right thing and you can do well out there...but it is easier if you have that Masters or PHD..

CC lives in fantasyland.

[boutons_deux]

CC lives in fantasyland.

America lives by its self-glorifying, self-congratulating myths.

One of the biggest is that because a few make it big, or at least comfortable, EVERYBODY can.

10Ms of people work 40+ hours/week in 1,2,3 DEAD-END jobs (America is World Champion in creating, maintaining such shitty jobs because they can find people so desperate for shitty low-paying jobs), remain in or near poverty. Aren't too smart, aren't managerial/entrepreneurial, parents weren't educated, didn't value education, grew up in poor, shitty neighborhoods, shitty schools, horrible, violence/drug-ridden neigborhoods. And it's 100% on them for not making $100K/year.


I’ve Crunched the Numbers, and the American Dream Is Dead

A California economics professor says he’s crunched the numbers, and he has concluded that the American Dream is dead.

Gregory Clark, a researcher at the University of California, Davis, found that social mobility had diminished significantly in the past 100 years, reported KOVR-TV (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/11/26/uc-davis-economics-professor-there-is-no-american-dream/).

“America has no higher rate of social mobility than medieval England or pre-industrial Sweden,” Clark said. “That’s the most difficult part of talking about social mobility, is because it is shattering people’s dreams.”

He said social mobility is little different in the United States than in other countries, where ancestry strongly predicts adult social status.

“The status of your children, your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren, (and) your great-great grandchildren will be quite closely related to your average status now,” Clark said.

That’s upsetting to many of his students, Clark said.

“My students always argue with me, but I think the thing they find very hard to accept is the idea that much of their lives can be predicted from their lineage and their ancestry,” he said.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/economist-ive-crunched-numbers-and-american-dream-dead

=============================


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Social_mobility_is_lower_in_more_unequal_countries .jpg

[boutons_deux]

One Strike and You’re Out: New CAP Report Offers Road Map to Eliminate Barriers to Economic Security and Mobility for People with Criminal Records (https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release/2014/12/02/102335/release-one-strike-and-youre-out-new-cap-report-offers-road-map-to-eliminate-barriers-to-economic-security-and-mobility-for-people-with-criminal-records/)

Washington, D.C. — As many as one in three Americans have some type of criminal record. Yet having any kind of criminal history—even for minor offenses or an arrest without a conviction—can create lifelong barriers that can stand in the way of basic necessities such as employment and housing.

This has broad implications, not only for the millions of individuals who are prevented from moving on with their lives and becoming productive citizens but also for their families, communities, and the nation’s economy. If not for recent trends in mass incarceration, our nation’s poverty rate would have fallen by 20 percent between 1980 and 2004, a recent study (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1348049) found.

https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release/2014/12/02/102335/release-one-strike-and-youre-out-new-cap-report-offers-road-map-to-eliminate-barriers-to-economic-security-and-mobility-for-people-with-criminal-records/

[pgardn]

There are atleast 10 nations I rather be born a White Male, than in the USA. You can't hide in a gated community all your life

I live in a community with a healthy mixture of backgrounds with no gates.
The key is that we work and work hard.
We are not afraid of a few kids skipping school and tagging stuff.
NW San Antonio, small neighborhood with great neighbors.
Cost of living very low here, it's close to perfect for me.

This is a great place to be and I am thankful for my neighborhood. Nowhere else I'd rather be. You think you are going to live in Russia and avoid getting mugged or robbed? Sure.

I also get to eat TexMex here, some of the best food in the world, I'll stay thank you. You go off to Norway and let the pensioners live off you. Let's see how you afford that; Eating fish out of cans everyday.

All those counties on boots graph that are white and European on the upper left part of the graph, you cannot possibly afford to live there. The cost of living is sky high, with the possible exception of Finland.

[boutons_deux]

I live in a community with a healthy mixture of backgrounds with no gates.


Just like CC, "I'm OK, so everybody else must be OK" (and if they aren't, I don't GAF. I got mine)

[CosmicCowboy]

Just like CC, "I'm OK, so everybody else must be OK" (and if they aren't, I don't GAF. I got mine)

Sorry you got left behind Boo, but your biterness and success envy isn't helping you any.

Should have studied harder and picked a major you could get a real job with.

[boutons_deux]

Sorry you got left behind Boo, but your biterness and success envy isn't helping you any.

Should have studied harder and picked a major you could get a real job with.

The Great Boutons has had a real, well-paying, professional job from his first month out of an Ivy League university.

[CosmicCowboy]

The Great Boutons has had a real, well-paying, professional job from his first month out of an Ivy League university.

So do you have a Maserati too? :lol

[boutons_deux]

So do you have a Maserati too? :lol

nope, my dick doesn't need enhancement

[tlongII]

The Great Boutons has had a real, well-paying, professional job from his first month out of an Ivy League university.

I think "had" is the key here.

[boutons_deux]

I think "had" is the key here.

:lol tshlong own goal! :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

The Great Boutons has had a real, well-paying, professional job from his first month out of an Ivy League university.

So how did you end up living in your mommas single wide?

[pgardn]

Just like CC, "I'm OK, so everybody else must be OK" (and if they aren't, I don't GAF. I got mine)

No boots I'm talking to the Nazi. He does not want people of color around him so he could not possibly live here.
Read my 1st post again, I said I am damn lucky. You pooped on the US saying its a shithole but you still live here. Get off your ass and go back to the countries that you worked for abroad. Since it was so good for you.

You guys talk a big game yet you do nothing to change your situation. Life's to short. You complain and rage just like the Nazi yet do nothing to change your situation. You are afraid to fail so maintaining staus quo is fine. I took risks.

So where did you work boots and what did you do? To improve your lot in life? And don't think I'm implying life is fair. If you somehow got screwed tell the board what you have done to unscrew yourself.

[boutons_deux]

So how did you end up living in your mommas single wide?

no more Mama, no single wide, my house is paid for.

[TeyshaBlue]

Just like CC, "I'm OK, so everybody else must be OK" (and if they aren't, I don't GAF. I got mine)
:cry. I don't have mine so everybody must suck....and if they don't, I don't GAF. I don't have mine. :cry

[SupremeGuy]

I've travelled A LOT, and lived, worked outside of USA, so GFYThen why did you come back? GFY

[spurraider21]

The Great Boutons has had a real, well-paying, professional job from his first month out of an Ivy League university.
i have sincere doubts you are an Ivy graduate

xmas1997 was more likely to be telling the truth about that

but bravo if so. i'm sure you put a lot of hard work in. certainly more work than your high school classmates who didn't get in. but i'm sure they're finding other reasons besides their lack of work ethic (at least compared to yours) to blame their struggles

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not very familiar with truck driving... but isn't that the kind of job that keeps you away from family?

FWIW, the average truck driver salary in Texas is $50k... not sure where did you get the 80K figure...

He is fond of making shit up and then living by it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why is it that it seems like 3/4 of the world population wants to immigrate here?

http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ill_pe_2012_2.pdf

Why is it that the immigrant population is going down and you are making this ignorant claim?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Then why did you come back? GFY

Because only cowards run away rather than try and better things?

[SupremeGuy]

Because only cowards run away rather than try and better things?He came back to post a shitload of far-left links on ST? He could have done that from a cozy home in West Africa, South Asia, Latin America, etc.

[SupremeGuy]

http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_ill_pe_2012_2.pdf

Why is it that the immigrant population is going down and you are making this ignorant claim?You do realize that the immigration population can't continuously go up like a curve right? Just because it's leveled out a little right now doesn't mean that people from nearly every country on Earth aren't trying to sacrifice life and limb to get here.

:cry no one like America :cry
:cry there isn't an illegal immigration problem :cry
:cry people don't want to come here anymore :cry

Faggot.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He came back to post a shitload of far-left links on ST? He could have done that from a cozy home in West Africa, South Asia, Latin America, etc.

Who knows what he does or does not do outside of here. I don't really care. If you want to make stories up about him like you guys are about everyone living outside of the US it would not surprise me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You do realize that the immigration population can't continuously go up like a curve right? Just because it's leveled out a little right now doesn't mean that people from nearly every country on Earth aren't trying to sacrifice life and limb to get here.

:cry no one like America :cry
:cry there isn't an illegal immigration problem :cry
:cry people don't want to come here anymore :cry

Faggot.

Oh noes you called me gay! :rolleyes You using that as your go to dig speaks of you much more than me.

It's plain stupid when the immigration population decreases to say that everyone wants to come here. More people are leaving than coming in, dimwit. No shit the value goes up and down. That is the entire point. When it is going down that means more people want to leave than stay at that particular time. Self deluding stupidity is fun I guess.

It's amusing how you combine self-centeredness, cultural naivete, and plain dumb reasoning to conclude that everyone in the world envies us. Pew polls that type of thing and while certain countries like Italy, France, Israel, and Kenya love us, much of the world views us unfavorably much less be willing to risk what it takes to get here.

It's as I said before but we can include you too, 'When bluster meets stupidity: the CC and SG way.'

[CosmicCowboy]

Fuzzy is just a baby boutons. Misinterprets random data to try to prove a false premise. Fucked up bitter attitude. Ankle bites real conversations. Only real difference is mommy and daddy are still paying fuzzys bills so he hasn't sunk to the total bottom of the barrel with boo and his hate for everyone because if his impotence and life failings

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy is just a baby boutons. Misinterprets random data to try to prove a false premise. Fucked up bitter attitude. Ankle bites real conversations. Only real difference is mommy and daddy are still paying fuzzys bills so he hasn't sunk to the total bottom of the barrel with boo and his hate for everyone because if his impotence and life failings

:lol whenever you cannot argue on merit or you are unsure that you can -you are not the bravest person around here- you will resort to some version of this. Both of my parents are dead for quite some time now. I am willing to bet that the estate was larger than anything you are familiar with and that I now gross more than you do on my own.

That is besides the point though because you are trying to front that when people are leaving the states net that '3/4 of the world wants to be us' or whatever delusion of US hegemony you want to conjure. This is not early industrial US for all of your want.

Merry Xmas though.

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh noes you called me gay! :rolleyes You using that as your go to dig speaks of you much more than me.

It's plain stupid when the immigration population decreases to say that everyone wants to come here. More people are leaving than coming in, dimwit. No shit the value goes up and down. That is the entire point. When it is going down that means more people want to leave than stay at that particular time. Self deluding stupidity is fun I guess.

It's amusing how you combine self-centeredness, cultural naivete, and plain dumb reasoning to conclude that everyone in the world envies us. Pew polls that type of thing and while certain countries like Italy, France, Israel, and Kenya love us, much of the world views us unfavorably much less be willing to risk what it takes to get here.

It's as I said before but we can include you too, 'When bluster meets stupidity: the CC and SG way.'

Shup, Gaylord.

Merry Christmas btw. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Shup, Gaylord.

Merry Christmas btw. :lol

Likewise mon frere. Merry Xmas to you and yours.