I can only go by the two examples they list but,...

[Yonivore]

I've had both of those things happen to me and I'm a white male.

The Obamas: How We Deal with Our Own Racist Experiences (http://www.people.com/article/barack-obama-michelle-obama-ferguson-racism-racial-profiling-interview)


"I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn't see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn't anything new."
Happens to me about a dozen times a year. The first lady and I are both taller than the average and, from time to time (well, apparently me more than her because she "...tell[s] this story."), we find ourselves near people who can use a hand reaching something up high. You know what I do? I help and think nothing of it. I don't get a burr under my saddle thinking, "I don't work here!," or " I'm not some commoner!" I've got no chip on my shoulder.


"There's no black male my age, who's a professional, who hasn't come out of a restaurant and is waiting for their car and somebody didn't hand them their car keys," said the president, adding that, yes, it had happened to him.
Guess what, President Obama; there's not many men our age who haven't stepped out of Restuarant with valet parking, while their spouse is in the restroom and the valets are off retrieving or parking cars that they haven't been treated as a valet. It happened to me on Valentine's Day this year. After all, we're standing there, by ourselves, at the valet booth.

These people are ridiculous.

[boutons_deux]

pussy eater never saw an ankle he wouldn't nip at

so white people are assumed to be The Help, or criminals, as often as black people! :lol

astrophysicist de grasse Tyson has a story. Walking into the university physics building, security frequently stopped him. Walking into the university gym, security didn't stop him.

"Boy, n!gg@s ain't smart enough to be physicists."

the same was said years ago about blacks not smart enough to be pro quarterbacks.

[Yonivore]

pussy eater never saw an ankle he wouldn't nip at

so white people are assumed to be The Help, or criminals, as often as black people! :lol
I don't know, do a study. Black people certainly complain about it more.

And, the only reference from the article suggesting an incident where a black was assumed to be a criminal was in the last paragraph:


"It's one thing for me to be mistaken for a waiter at a gala. It's another thing for my son to be mistaken for a robber and to be handcuffed, or worse, if he happens to be walking down the street and is dressed the way teenagers dress."
If he's referring to Michael Brown; well, he was a criminal.


astrophysicist de grasse Tyson has a story. Walking into the university physics building, security frequently stopped him. Walking into the university gym, security didn't stop him.

"Boy, n!gg@s ain't smart enough to be physicists."

the same was said years ago about blacks not smart enough to be pro quarterbacks.
Is that true? Someone actually said that to NDT "Boy, niggas ain't smart enough to be physicists?"

[Yonivore]

...

[Spurminator]

I guess the conservative blogosphere is now plumbing People Magazine for things to bitch about...

[FromWayDowntown]

These people are ridiculous.

No doubt. When this happens:


Mrs. Obama recalled another incident: "He was wearing a tuxedo at a black-tie dinner, and somebody asked him to get coffee."

just bring the person coffee and quit bitching.

[Yonivore]

Mrs. Obama recalled another incident: "He was wearing a tuxedo at a black-tie dinner, and somebody asked him to get coffee."
OMG! That's horrible!

Without ridiculously trying to determine the context, what does this even mean? I, as I'm sure many people of all races, have on occasion, been mistaken for being something we're not. Was he standing next to the coffee looking like he was there to serve? Was he alone or talking with someone? Was the person elderly or have poor sight? There are a million reasons -- other than the fact he is black -- that might cause someone to believe he was a server.


just bring the person coffee and quit bitching.
Exactly, what's to bitch about? That's what I would have done; I would have got the person a cup of coffee.

To pretend blacks are the only people mistaken for "the help" is stupid; and racist.

[Yonivore]

FLASHBACK: Valerie Jarrett Mistakes 4-Star General For Waiter (http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/17/flashback-valerie-jarrett-mistakes-4-star-general-for-waiter/)
What does that make Valerie Jarrett?

[Yonivore]

Funny how differently Michelle Obama viewed her Target experience when relating it to David Letterman.

Michelle Obama talks Target and her dad on Letterman's couch (http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/03/michelle-obama-talks-target-and-her-dad-on-lettermans-117938.html)


"That’s my Target run. I went to Target," she said. "I thought I was undercover. I have to tell you something about this trip though. No one knew that was me because a woman actually walked up to me, right? I was in the detergent aisle, and she said — I kid you not — she said, ‘Excuse me, I just have to ask you something,’ and I thought, ‘Oh, cover’s blown.’ She said, ‘Can you reach on that shelf and hand me the detergent?’ I kid you not.”

As the audience laughed, she went on, “And the only thing she said — I reached up, ’cause she was short, and I reached up, pulled it down — she said, ‘Well, you didn’t have to make it look so easy.’ That was my interaction. I felt so good ... She had no idea who I was. I thought, as soon as she walked up — I was with my assistant, and I said, ‘This is it, it’s over. We’re going to have to leave.’ She just needed the detergent.”

[Yonivore]

FromWayDowntown, I'd be interested in knowing if Michelle's fabrication shakes your faith in the racism of America.

Here we have an African American woman who, when asked to recount a racist act that is seared her memory, choose to talk about an encounter she experienced that "felt so good."

Democrats are stuck in the early 60's. What's significant about Michelle's story is that it shows how far the country has come that the best she can come up with is a lie.

[ChumpDumper]

Holy shit, yoni is serious about this.

[Yonivore]

Holy shit, yoni is serious about this.
I'm as serious about her fabricating acts of racism as she is about advancing the narrative that blacks still experience racist acts by fabricating them.

[ChumpDumper]

:madrun

[FromWayDowntown]

FromWayDowntown, I'd be interested in knowing if Michelle's fabrication shakes your faith in the racism of America.

Here we have an African American woman who, when asked to recount a racist act that is seared her memory, choose to talk about an encounter she experienced that "felt so good."

Democrats are stuck in the early 60's. What's significant about Michelle's story is that it shows how far the country has come that the best she can come up with is a lie.

Is it your contention that there is virtually no racism in this country and that any perception of such by minorities is, in most (if not all) circumstances, completely imagined or fabricated?

I don't really care particularly about Ms. Obama's statement -- it's unfortunate that she cost herself credibility if the events described in her statements to People and Letterman are one and the same. But the fact that Michele Obama might have exaggerated her perception of an event doesn't strike me as particularly compelling evidence that there's little to no racism in America and that any belief that there is racism is wholly imagined.

I've seen those things happen too often in my own life to blithely conclude that there would be no racism if black people would just stop pretending that it exists.

But maybe we should just proceed to impeachment of the First Lady.

[Yonivore]

Is it your contention that there is virtually no racism in this country and that any perception of such by minorities is, in most (if not all) circumstances, completely imagined or fabricated?
No, it's my contention that racism must be pretty damn rare if two prominent African Americans have to fabricate racist acts from their past to demonstrate they were discriminated against.


I don't really care particularly about Ms. Obama's statement -- it's unfortunate that she cost herself credibility if the events described in her statements to People and Letterman are one and the same. But the fact that Michele Obama might have exaggerated her perception of an event doesn't strike me as particularly compelling evidence that there's little to no racism in America and that any belief that there is racism is wholly imagined.
Well, it strikes me as a compelling reason to believe she, personally, has not experienced racism if, in fact, this (and the other non-racist acts in the article) are the best she can muster when asked to give such examples.


I've seen those things happen too often in my own life to blithely conclude that there would be no racism if black people would just stop pretending that it exists.
Perhaps we could start calling people out on the faux racism so the true acts can be the focus.

Do I believe racism exists? Absolutely. Do I believe it has any power over society or individuals? No.

Government racism was outlawed in the 1960's. Since that time, private racism has been relegated to the few groups that still declare some supremacy over another race; the KKK, NBPP, etc...

Individual racists have been sufficiently cowed by the public condemnation of being racist so, unless you impute racism on someone -- simply by their race (white) or their location (The South) or their position (Conservative) -- it barely shows it's ugly head.

Seriously, give me 3 examples of true racism that has occurred in this century that wasn't universally condemned by the vast majority of Americans?

I'll give you three:

Preferential Admission to Universities for African Americans, Preferential hiring of African Americans in government institutions, and The Congressional Black Caucus (and all other exclusively black organizations that discriminate in their admission, based on race).

Where does that occur in the White world? I almost said, where does that occur anywhere else, but Latinos and Asians have, to some degree, segregated their associations to exclude other races.


But maybe we should just proceed to impeachment of the First Lady.
I wasn't suggesting that; why be ridiculous? Why not just confront her about her apparent lie? Why not just ask the question, why -- when you believe racism is so pervasive -- would you make up a story about being discriminated against at a Target store?

[Cry Havoc]

Racism doesn't exist in this country because I, too, have been mistaken for a valet.

There are no bounds to your ignorance and obtuseness.

[Cry Havoc]

No, it's my contention that racism must be pretty damn rare if two prominent African Americans have to fabricate racist acts from their past to demonstrate they were discriminated against.

..........

Unreal. It's like you don't even live on this planet.

[Yonivore]

..........

Unreal. It's like you don't even live on this planet.
Same challenge I gave FWD; name three racist acts that have occurred since 2000 that have not received universal condemnation from the American people.

[Cry Havoc]

Same challenge I gave FWD; name three racist acts that have occurred since 2000 that have not received universal condemnation from the American people.

:wow I'm just going to choose to believe this is a schtick. You can't be this idiotic. You can't be.

[Yonivore]

:wow I'm just going to choose to believe this is a schtick. You can't be this idiotic. You can't be.
If racism is so pervasive, you shouldn't have any trouble pointing it out to me.

But, if you choose to ignore the challenge and believe this is some kind of "schtick," so be it. I wasn't addressing you anyway.

[Cry Havoc]

If racism is so pervasive, you shouldn't have any trouble pointing it out to me.

It's so pervasive that I find it an affront to your frontal lobe's processing abilities that you can make that request with a straight face.

[Yonivore]

It's so pervasive that I find it an affront to your frontal lobe's processing abilities that you can make that request with a straight face.
I'm just asking for examples.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm just asking for examples.

Are you asking because you don't think they exist or because you're curious about personal experiences on this board?

[Yonivore]

Are you asking because you don't think they exist or because you're curious about personal experiences on this board?
As I've already stated, I believe racism exists. I just don't believe it has the power being ascribed to it by those who believe they're victims of it. Michelle Obama's examples being indicative of the type of "racism" that has to be manufactured for some people to be able to claim their victims of it.

So, I asked for examples of actual racism that isn't universally condemned by Americans.

[Cry Havoc]

As I've already stated, I believe racism exists. I just don't believe it has the power being ascribed to it by those who believe they're victims of it. Michelle Obama's examples being indicative of the type of "racism" that has to be manufactured for some people to be able to claim their victims of it.

So, I asked for examples of actual racism that isn't universally condemned by Americans.

Define "universally condemned", then, since obviously any example someone uses you could sweep that under the rug with "condemned!", fingers in your ears the entire way.

[Yonivore]

Define "universally condemned", then, since obviously any example someone uses you could sweep that under the rug with "condemned!", fingers in your ears the entire way.
Racism that causes the perpetrator to be shamed, ostracized, to suffer some penalty (criminal or societal).

[Wild Cobra]

Yes, racism is prevalent. I feel get racist remarks from black people all the time.

[ChumpDumper]

poor whitey :depressed

[Yonivore]

Yes, racism is prevalent. I feel get racist remarks from black people all the time.
Well, I did mention the pervasive racism of race-based admission into universities, preferential hiring of minorities, and racially exclusive organizations as being examples of pervasive racism that does not generally meet with universal condemnation. But, there are individual acts of racism that are perpetrated against whites but, I choose to ignore them because, generally, the person being racist has little power over me.

[Yonivore]

poor whitey :depressed
That's racist.

If I were to say, "poor blacky," it would be considered racist. Even though, in both instances, there is absolutely zero effect in the statements.

[ChumpDumper]

That's racist.

If I were to say, "poor blacky," it would be considered racist. Even though, in both instances, there is absolutely zero effect in the statements.In what way is my personally saying whitey racist?

[Yonivore]

In what way is my personally saying whitey racist?
Sorry, not chasing you down the rabbit hole.

Give me some example of racism that have not met with universal condemnation in America. (No fair using my examples).

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry, not chasing you down the rabbit holeI'm just asking you to give your personal reasoning about your stated belief.

Why is my personally saying whitey racist?

[Yonivore]

I'm just asking you to give your personal reasoning about your stated belief.

Why is my personally saying whitey racist?
"Whitey" is a pejorative term based in the race of the one you're calling "whitey." And, you used it in a mocking manner.

Answered, now where are my examples of racism?

[ChumpDumper]

"Whitey" is a pejorative term based in the race of the one you're calling "whitey." And, you used it in a mocking manner.I agree it's mocking, but how is it racist?

[Yonivore]

I agree it's mocking, but how is it racist?
Did you not read the first sentence?

So, you're not going to give me examples?

[ChumpDumper]

Did you not read the first sentence?Yeah, it had nothing to do with making my personal use of the word racist.

So how is my personal use of the word racist?

[Yonivore]

Yeah, it had nothing to do with making my personal use of the word racist.

So how is my personal use of the word racist?
Why did you use the term whitey? Why not some non-race based term?

[ChumpDumper]

Why did you use the term whitey? Why not some non-race based term?Because it makes some white people think its racist and cry, of course.

[Th'Pusher]

Same challenge I gave FWD; name three racist acts that have occurred since 2000 that have not received universal condemnation from the American people.

Why are you qualifying the request with universal condemnation from the American people? Just because the American people condemned something does not preclude it from being pervasive.

[Yonivore]

Because it makes some white people think its racist and cry, of course.
Who's crying? You used whitey in a pejorative manner, that makes it racist. I'm neither offended nor crying.

Last chance to give me some examples of what you perceive to be racism in America.

[ChumpDumper]

Who's crying?


That's racist.:cry

[ChumpDumper]

You used whitey in a pejorative manner, that makes it racist.So what is your definition of racism, yoni?

[Yonivore]

Why are you qualifying the request with universal condemnation from the American people? Just because the American people condemned something does not preclude it from being pervasive.
Because for it to be a societal problem, it needs to be racism the society isn't dealing with. Individual acts of racism that are dealt with by the community shouldn't impute racism on the rest of society.

But, if it makes you feel better, give me three examples of racism - no qualifier.

[Yonivore]

:cry
I look at a block of Gouda and say, "That's cheese." I'm not crying about it, just identifying it.

[Cry Havoc]

So what is your definition of racism, yoni?

Amazing that he didn't see that perfectly obvious snare and instead blindly charged into it.

[ChumpDumper]

I look at a block of Gouda and say, "That's cheese." I'm not crying about it, just identifying it.Are you a block of cheese?

[Yonivore]

So what is your definition of racism, yoni?
Let's go with Dictionary.com


noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
I think your pejorative mocking use of the term "whitey," suggests you believe white people to be inferior and unable to weather criticism or derision.

Damn it, I already gave you a last chance. Care to pony up an example?

[Th'Pusher]

Because for it to be a societal problem, it needs to be racism the society isn't dealing with. Individual acts of racism that are dealt with by the community shouldn't impute racism on the rest of society.

But, if it makes you feel better, give me three examples of racism - no qualifier.
Can I just link you to hate crime statistics by race?

[ChumpDumper]

Let's go with Dictionary.com


I think your pejorative mocking use of the term "whitey," suggests you believe white people to be inferior and unable to weather criticism or derision.Only a percentage of white people, and I think plenty of minorities are similarly sensitive, so how is it racist?

[Spurminator]

A systematic example of racism affecting more than three people:

http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/06/marijuana_use_rate_by_race_year.png
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/06/marijuana_arrest_rates_by_race_year.png

[Yonivore]

Amazing that he didn't see that perfectly obvious snare and instead blindly charged into it.
No, what's amazing is that I continue to engage a couple of pedantic ankle-biters when I know perfectly well, neither of you will ever offer respond to a direct question, directly.

[boutons_deux]

there's no racism, the blacks are lying

there's no rape, the girls are lying

[Winehole23]

No, what's amazing is that I continue to engage a couple of pedantic ankle-biters when I know perfectly well, neither of you will ever offer respond to a direct question, directly.Spurminator just did. Why not talk to him?

[Cry Havoc]

No, what's amazing is that I continue to engage a couple of pedantic ankle-biters when I know perfectly well, neither of you will ever offer respond to a direct question, directly.

:cry You're so oppressed, Yoni.

[Cry Havoc]

Spurminator just did. Why not talk to him?

Because it's hard to talk very frequently when your head is buried firmly in the sand.

[Winehole23]

I think it's that he actually prefers the petty bickering he complains about. The pattern of posting is telling.

[spurraider21]

Only a percentage of white people, and I think plenty of minorities are similarly sensitive, so how is it racist?
What percentage? 100% is also a percentage.

Be specific.

[ChumpDumper]

What percentage? 100% is also a percentage.

Be specific.I haven't met them all.

[spurraider21]

I haven't met them all.
So you don't know. Ok.

[ChumpDumper]

So you don't know. Ok.It's my opinion, so I do know.

[spurraider21]

It's my opinion, so I do know.
lol

So what is the percentage of white people you were referring to. "A percentage" could refer to 0%, 100%, or anything in between.

Be specific.

[ChumpDumper]

lol

So what is the percentage of white people you were referring to. "A percentage" could refer to 0%, 100%, or anything in between.

Be specific.Don't need to be.

If I think just one is that way, it's a percentage. And I do think at least one is.

[spurraider21]

Don't need to be.

If I think just one is that way, it's a percentage. And I do think at least one is.
So it is your opinion that either one, some, many, or all... are offended.

I'm astonished

[ChumpDumper]

So it is your opinion that either one, some, many, or all... are offended.

I'm astonishedWhy are you so astonished?

[Yonivore]

A systematic example of racism affecting more than three people:

http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/06/marijuana_use_rate_by_race_year.png
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/06/marijuana_arrest_rates_by_race_year.png
From the U.S. Department of Justice in 1995 (That would be during the Clinton years, I believe)

The Racial Disparity in U.S. Drug Arrests (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rdusda.pdf)


Although arrested whites and arrested blacks were about equally likely to be drug use deniers [Note: Which seems to be indicated by your top graph - Y.], these results nevertheless have implications for the SAMHSA survey. A larger fraction of the black population than the white population consists of criminally active persons and, therefore, a larger fraction of the black population than the white population would consist of criminally active persons who use drugs but deny it. Consequently, the SAMHSA survey would probably understate the difference between whites and blacks in terms of drug use. Whether the effect of such drug use denial among criminally active persons is large enough to account for the unexplained 13% is not known, but research on the topic should pursue this possibility.

And, the article from where the above excerpt was taken:

RACE AND JUSTICE: MUCH MORE THAN YOU WANTED TO KNOW (http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/)


Usually when people talk about racial disparities in arrest rates for minor crimes, they’re talking about drugs. The basic argument is that black people and white people use drugs at “similar rates”, but black people are four times more likely to get arrested for drug crime. You can find this argument on pretty much every major media outlet: NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html), Slate (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/06/04/marijuana_possession_laws_aclu_report_why_blacks_a re_four_times_more_likely.html), Vox (http://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-minorities), HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/03/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests_n_3381725.html), USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/04/race-marijuana/2389677/), et cetera. [NOTE: i.e., your two bar graphs (also from the U.S. Government) that show data without explanation. - Y]

The Bureau of Justice has done their own analysis of this issue and finds it’s more complicated. For example, all of these “equally likely to have used drugs” claims turn out to be that blacks and whites are equally likely to have “used drugs in the past year”, but blacks are far more likely to have used drugs in the past week – that is, more whites are only occasional users. That gives blacks many more opportunities to be caught by the cops. Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine. Further, blacks are more likely to live in the cities, where there is a heavy police shadow, and whites in the suburbs or country, where there is a lower one.

When you do the math and control for all those things, you halve the size of the gap to “twice as likely”.

The Bureau of Justice and another source I found in the Washington Post aren’t too sure about the remaining half, either. For example, anecdotal evidence suggests white people typically do their drug deals in the dealer’s private home, and black people typically do them on street corners. My personal discussions with black and white drug users have turned up pretty much the same thing. One of those localities is much more likely to be watched by police than the other.

Finally, all of this is based on self-reported data about drug use. Remember from a couple paragraphs ago how studies showed that black people were twice as likely to fail to self-report their drug use? And you notice here that black people are twice as likely to be arrested for drug use as their self-reports suggest? That’s certainly an interesting coincidence.
I recommend the entire article.

I don't know the author's credentials but, he's at least as qualified as you and I to comment on the topic and, he's apparently got the time to research.

[spurraider21]

Why are you so astonished?
thought the blue font was implied with that last line

[Yonivore]

Can I just link you to hate crime statistics by race?
Sure. Although, since it's such a pervasive issue, you can certainly come up with three examples, off the top of your head.

[ChumpDumper]

thought the blue font was implied with that last lineSo you aren't astonished?

What is your reaction to finding out a percentage can be one of many possible numbers?

[Spurminator]

Interesting articles, Yonivore. I'll read more of the second one when I have time, but they both seem reasonable overall and make a fair amount of valid points. I'll address the sections you quoted together since they're related (and the 1995 study is the source of most of the second article's points).


From the U.S. Department of Justice in 1995 (That would be during the Clinton years, I believe)

The Racial Disparity in U.S. Drug Arrests (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rdusda.pdf)
Although arrested whites and arrested blacks were about equally likely to be drug use deniers [Note: Which seems to be indicated by your top graph - Y.], these results nevertheless have implications for the SAMHSA survey. A larger fraction of the black population than the white population consists of criminally active persons and, therefore, a larger fraction of the black population than the white population would consist of criminally active persons who use drugs but deny it. Consequently, the SAMHSA survey would probably understate the difference between whites and blacks in terms of drug use. Whether the effect of such drug use denial among criminally active persons is large enough to account for the unexplained 13% is not known, but research on the topic should pursue this possibility.

And, the article from where the above excerpt was taken:

RACE AND JUSTICE: MUCH MORE THAN YOU WANTED TO KNOW (http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/)

I recommend the entire article.

I don't know the author's credentials but, he's at least as qualified as you and I to comment on the topic and, he's apparently got the time to research.

The 1995 study makes a good point about frequency being a factor, but also applied a lot of circular logic with regards to arrest frequency in metropolitan areas being a factor in why blacks are more likely to be arrested. The opposing side would argue arrest frequency in metropolitan areas is driven by a bias towards arresting blacks more frequently for illicit drug crimes. In the end it's worth noting that they acknowledge a 13% discrepancy that they can't explain without further analysis.

And I hardly think "black people lying about drug use" accounts for a 13 ppt difference. That same study says that white criminals were just as likely to lie about their drug use... and in neither case is lying during an anonymous interview the same as lying to a cop when you've been arrested.

As far as frequency, I wish there was better data available for weekly and daily drug use by race. In the study, while he states that blacks are more likely to report using drugs weekly, the BOJ's monthly usage data isn't sourced anywhere... Was that a self-reported number? Was it from a survey, or reported after arrest? No accusation here, we just don't really know what those numbers mean.

This more recent chart shows monthly illicit drug use rates are similar.

http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUHresultsPDFWHTML2013/Web/gifs/nfr-fig2-12-2k13.gif

Source: http://www.samhsa.gov/

Another, specifically for marijuana like the charts I posted before:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dZdAG57l-VU/T3y1A8AkOVI/AAAAAAAAjbY/tEctg8PehYI/s1600/Marijuana+Use+Rates_USE.jpg


The street-corner-drug-sales scenario is a point well taken, but it's (1) anecdotal, and (2) only covers specific incidents where the drug possessor is arrested while making a purchase. It does not explain the disparity of other arrests... of the stop-and-frisk and traffic stop variety, for example. One should also ask why cops are more commonly staked out on street corners looking for drug arrests and not, for example, watching fraternity and sorority houses which are just as likely (if not more likely) to have illegal drugs or underage drinking.

Your blog writer also brings up another thing worth discussion - the designation of crack as a "high penalty" crime... Until only recently (Thanks Obama), crack-cocaine possession carried 100x worse criminal penalty compared to a similar amount of powdered cocaine. That disparity is now 18:1.

So anyway, while there are certainly extenuating circumstances that make racial arrest discrepancies worse (as well as sentencing discrepancies, which is a whole other discussion), in a vacuum there is still not an equal playing field for blacks when it comes to drug arrests.

[Yonivore]

Interesting articles, Yonivore. I'll read more of the second one when I have time, but they both seem reasonable overall and make a fair amount of valid points. I'll address the sections you quoted together since they're related (and the 1995 study is the source of most of the second article's points).



The 1995 study makes a good point about frequency being a factor, but also applied a lot of circular logic with regards to arrest frequency in metropolitan areas being a factor in why blacks are more likely to be arrested. The opposing side would argue arrest frequency in metropolitan areas is driven by a bias towards arresting blacks more frequently for illicit drug crimes. In the end it's worth noting that they acknowledge a 13% discrepancy that they can't explain without further analysis.

And I hardly think "black people lying about drug use" accounts for a 13 ppt difference. That same study says that white criminals were just as likely to lie about their drug use... and in neither case is lying during an anonymous interview the same as lying to a cop when you've been arrested.

As far as frequency, I wish there was better data available for weekly and daily drug use by race. In the study, while he states that blacks are more likely to report using drugs weekly, the BOJ's monthly usage data isn't sourced anywhere... Was that a self-reported number? Was it from a survey, or reported after arrest? No accusation here, we just don't really know what those numbers mean.

This more recent chart shows monthly illicit drug use rates are similar.

http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUHresultsPDFWHTML2013/Web/gifs/nfr-fig2-12-2k13.gif

Source: http://www.samhsa.gov/

Another, specifically for marijuana like the charts I posted before:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dZdAG57l-VU/T3y1A8AkOVI/AAAAAAAAjbY/tEctg8PehYI/s1600/Marijuana+Use+Rates_USE.jpg


The street-corner-drug-sales scenario is a point well taken, but it's (1) anecdotal, and (2) only covers specific incidents where the drug possessor is arrested while making a purchase. It does not explain the disparity of other arrests... of the stop-and-frisk and traffic stop variety, for example. One should also ask why cops are more commonly staked out on street corners looking for drug arrests and not, for example, watching fraternity and sorority houses which are just as likely (if not more likely) to have illegal drugs or underage drinking.

Your blog writer also brings up another thing worth discussion - the designation of crack as a "high penalty" crime... Until only recently (Thanks Obama), crack-cocaine possession carried 100x worse criminal penalty compared to a similar amount of powdered cocaine. That disparity is now 18:1.

So anyway, while there are certainly extenuating circumstances that make racial arrest discrepancies worse (as well as sentencing discrepancies, which is a whole other discussion), in a vacuum there is still not an equal playing field for blacks when it comes to drug arrests.
In think the point being, which you somewhat concede, is that it's a complex issue and simply throwing a chart at the wall doesn't tell the entire story.

I don't know that you can state, emphatically, there is not an equal playing field for blacks when it comes to drug arrests. But, if it's not, it's at least plausible it is blacks that are creating the factors leading to their disproportionate representation in the drug arrest category.

[spurraider21]

So you aren't astonished?

What is your reaction to finding out a percentage can be one of many possible numbers?
I'm astonished that you would bother sharing an opinion that tells us nothing. It would be the equivalent of sharing an opinion that the Spurs could lose their next game by many points, 1 point, or win by 1 point or many points

[Spurminator]

In think the point being, which you somewhat concede, is that it's a complex issue and simply throwing a chart at the wall doesn't tell the entire story.

I think the chart shows it's reasonable to believe examples of racism in drug arrests have probably happened more than three times.

[Yonivore]

I think the chart shows it's reasonable to believe examples of racism in drug arrests have probably happened more than three times.
I think it's inconclusive, correlation does not imply causation. Reasonable people can disagree. And, reasonable people can believe there may be factors, other than race to explain the disparity.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm astonished that you would bother sharing an opinion that tells us nothing. It would be the equivalent of sharing an opinion that the Spurs could lose their next game by many points, 1 point, or win by 1 point or many pointsPredicting the Spurs will lose is something.

What level of certitude would satisfy you in this case?

[Yonivore]

So, anyone come up with three examples of racism?

Here, let me prompt you with one I found...

"fuck the white people, kill the white people"

GIPZ09WcTWk

I know, MSNBC didn't report this so, it didn't happen.

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR%20BEGIC)

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR)

Search of MSNBC for "BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/BEGIC)

I tried a number of searches, "Croatian killed in Ferguson," "Hammer beating in Ferguson," "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People," and various other iterations, using key words and phrases, looking for an MSNBC story on the murder of Zemir Begic.

The only positive response I received was when I plugged in "Fuck the White People, Kill the White Peole:"

Amnesty International slams Ferguson over human rights abuses (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amnesty-international-slams-ferguson-over-human-rights-abuses)

Searched the article -- they don't mention Mr. Begic, either.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, Begic wasn't killed in Ferguson, so again you might want to get even the most basic of facts correct.

[Spurminator]

So, anyone come up with three examples of racism?

:lmao

You're hopeless. It's not worth the effort.

[Yonivore]

:lmao

You're hopeless. It's not worth the effort.
I'll take that as a no.

[Yonivore]

Well, Begic wasn't killed in Ferguson, so again you might want to get even the most basic of facts correct.
Whatever, he was killed by a mob chanting "Fuck the white people, kill the white people." Where doesn't negate the racism.

And, their acts were apparently motivated by what happened in Ferguson.

[ChumpDumper]

WhateverGet your facts straight.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'll take that as a no.

Hey look! We've now proven that there's no racism in America, except of course for the rampant racism against Whitey!

[Yonivore]

Hey look! We've now proven that there's no racism in America, except of course for the rampant racism against Whitey!
I'm open to examples of other types of racism.

[Yonivore]

Get your facts straight.
You're right, I'll try to do better but, it wasn't a fact that changed the point being made.

[Spurminator]

Your point is based on dubious rumors.

[Yonivore]

Your point is based on dubious rumors.
And you have yet to make a point to the contrary. However, the contemporaneous statements of a person recording an event aren't exactly rumor but, I get your point. It would have been better if the recording had actually contained footage of the mob chanting "fuck the white people, Kill the white people."

Can you cite examples?

Here's another one...

BLACK RACISM UNCHAINED (http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/black-racism-unchained/)


White Americans are under assault, and with the re-election of President Barack Obama, black racism is on the rise!

There’s no better example of black racism than when actor Jamie Foxx hosted “Saturday Night Live” and joked about his new film, “Django Unchained”: “I get free. I save my wife and I kill all the white people in the movie. How great is that?” He went on to say, “My president, President Obama, is back up in the White House for four more years. How black is that?”

How dumb is that? Just imagine if a white actor joked about how much he enjoyed shooting black people. And what if that same actor gloated about how great it is to have a white president like George W. Bush back in the White House? The NAACP, the godless Congressional Black Caucus, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the rest of the liberals would be marching in the streets.

And, another...

Teenagers poured gasoline on boy walking home from school and set him on fire: cops (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-gasoline-boy-walking-home-school-set-fire-cops-article-1.1033062)

There's my three. Your turn.

[ChumpDumper]

So, anyone come up with three examples of racism?

Here, let me prompt you with one I found...

"fuck the white people, kill the white people"

GIPZ09WcTWk

I know, MSNBC didn't report this so, it didn't happen.

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR%20BEGIC)

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR)

Search of MSNBC for "BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/BEGIC)

I tried a number of searches, "Croatian killed in Ferguson," "Hammer beating in Ferguson," "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People," and various other iterations, using key words and phrases, looking for an MSNBC story on the murder of Zemir Begic.

The only positive response I received was when I plugged in "Fuck the White People, Kill the White Peole:"

Amnesty International slams Ferguson over human rights abuses (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amnesty-international-slams-ferguson-over-human-rights-abuses)

Searched the article -- they don't mention Mr. Begic, either.So what is your evidence that this murder was racially motivated?

I saw no such quotes from the victim's fiancee, who witnessed the attack firsthand. Maybe you could give me a link where she did.

[ChumpDumper]

There’s no better example of black racism than when actor Jamie Foxx hosted “Saturday Night Live” and joked about his new film, “Django Unchained”: “I get free. I save my wife and I kill all the white people in the movie. How great is that?” He went on to say, “My president, President Obama, is back up in the White House for four more years. How black is that?”Oh noes!

[Spurminator]

And you have yet to make a point to the contrary. However, the contemporaneous statements of a person recording an event aren't exactly rumor but, I get your point. It would have been better if the recording had actually contained footage of the mob chanting "fuck the white people, Kill the white people."

Yes, and if the police hadn't said they had no reason to believe it was racially motivated, and if the wife of the victim had said anything about those chants, and if the reporting of those chants wasn't limited to Infowars/Stormfront sites.

LOL WorldNetDaily

If you've devolved into a Cosmored/Mouse type poster then you will be treated as such. Enjoy.

[ChumpDumper]

And you have yet to make a point to the contrary. However, the contemporaneous statements of a person recording an event aren't exactly rumorYou don't know that. The person recording could just be repeating a rumor.

You're way out over your skis on this one.

[Yonivore]

Yes, and if the police hadn't said they had no reason to believe it was racially motivated, and if the wife of the victim had said anything about those chants, and if the reporting of those chants wasn't limited to Infowars/Stormfront sites.

LOL WorldNetDaily

If you've devolved into a Cosmored/Mouse type poster then you will be treated as such. Enjoy.
Hey, I'm at least making an attempt to show examples of racism. It's hard to find them. What have you ponied up, aside from a few graphs where even less proof is shown of racism.

I'm trying to get you to provide examples of the pervasive racism in this country. The OP demonstrates our two highest profile African Americans are willing to lie in order to make it appear to be a pervasive problem, I'm simply asking for more than just your trying to force me to accept some article of faith, on the left, that racism is still pervasive in this country.

[Yonivore]

You don't know that. The person recording could just be repeating a rumor.

You're way out over your skis on this one.
You won't even put your skis on.

Give me an example that demonstrates pervasive racism in this country.

[ChumpDumper]

You won't even put your skis on.

Give me an example that demonstrates pervasive racism in this country.Back yours up.

Where is the quote from the fiancee saying the attackers said "Kill the white people!"?

And you call Jaime Foxx's joke evidence of pervasive racism?

lol

[Yonivore]

Back yours up.

Where is the quote from the fiancee saying the attackers said "Kill the white people!"?
Give me an example of racism.


And you call Jaime Foxx's joke evidence of pervasive racism?

lol
Yes.

[ChumpDumper]

Give me an example of racism.Back yours up.



Yes.You're a very delicately sensitive white person.

[Spurminator]

The OP is a laughable premise in the first place. It's a (poorly-written) People Magazine article, and you've somehow twisted a humorous anecdote into a sinister plot to keep the white man down. I don't think what the First Lady encountered at Target was an example of pervasive racism and I don't believe she intended for it to be interpreted that way.

I do believe black people may see racism in situations where there isn't necessarily racism, but that's primarily because of the actual racism they experience elsewhere. You obviously believe that is all in their imagination, and no amount of Internet Message Board discussion is going to convince you otherwise.

If you want specific every day examples of pervasive racism, I suggest you include more black people in your social circle and talk to them about it.

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao Yoni. Can't get much more pathetic than this.

[Cry Havoc]

:cry No one wants to be my monkey, so therefore I have solved racism! :cry

[Yonivore]

The OP is a laughable premise in the first place. It's a poorly-written People Magazine article, and you've somehow twisted a humorous anecdote into a sinister plot to keep the white man down. I don't think what the First Lady encountered at Target was an example of pervasive racism and I don't believe she intended for it to be interpreted that way.
Now, you choose distort the premise of the thread and attack that distortion? I never said anything about Michelle Obama's anecdote being part of a "plot to keep the white man down."

I asked why, in the context of a conversation about racism she had experienced, she would use this anecdote.


The Obamas open up about raising their daughters, the impact of stereotypes, and what's on the POTUS dance party playlist. Subscribe now for instant access to the exclusive PEOPLE interview.

The protective bubble that comes with the presidency – the armored limo, the Secret Service detail, the White House – shields Barack and Michelle Obama from a lot of unpleasantness. But their encounters with racial prejudice aren't as far in the past as one might expect. And they obviously still sting.

"I think people forget that we've lived in the White House for six years," the first lady told PEOPLE, laughing wryly, along with her husband, at the assumption that the first family has been largely insulated from coming face-to-face with racism.

"Before that, Barack Obama was a black man that lived on the South Side of Chicago, who had his share of troubles catching cabs," Mrs. Obama said in the Dec. 10 interview appearing in the new issue of PEOPLE.

"I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn't see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn't anything new."
She was using the anecdote as an example of racism she's experienced...even when she had to know she had characterized the entire event as something else on the Letterman show. Why not come up with a real example?


I do believe black people may see racism in situations where there isn't necessarily racism, but that's primarily because of the actual racism they experience elsewhere.
Well, that's on them. Why did Michelle Obama not use an example of "actual racism" instead of lying about her encounter with some helpful lady at a a Target. As a side note, the lady who helped Ms. Obama claims to be an Obama voter who was thrilled when she shared that anecdote on Letterman; I wonder what she thinks now.


You obviously believe that is all in their imagination, and no amount of Internet Message Board discussion is going to convince you otherwise.
What else do I have to go on? You won't provide examples, I just keep getting yelled at about how no examples are necessary, it's just a fact that racism is pervasive in this country.


If you want specific every day examples of pervasive racism, I suggest you include more black people in your social circle and talk to them about it.
You mean, like this guy?

rDU6RNjuj98

And, I'm talking about Terry Swoops, not the blacks he's talking about in his video.

[Spurminator]

Now, you choose distort the premise of the thread and attack that distortion? I never said anything about Michelle Obama's anecdote being part of a "plot to keep the white man down."

I asked why, in the context of a conversation about racism she had experienced, she would use this anecdote.

She was using the anecdote as an example of racism she's experienced...even when she had to know she had characterized the entire event as something else on the Letterman show.

Well, that's on them. Why did Michelle Obama not use an example of "actual racism" instead of lying about her encounter with some helpful lady at a a Target. As a side note, the lady who helped Ms. Obama claims to be an Obama voter who was thrilled when she shared that anecdote on Letterman; I wonder what she thinks now.

What else do I have to go on? You won't provide examples, I just keep getting yelled at about how no examples are necessary, it's just a fact that racism is pervasive in this country.

You mean, like this guy?

rDU6RNjuj98

And, I'm talking about Terry Swoops, not the blacks he's talking about in his video.


You win Yonivore. There is no racism in this country against blacks, the only hate crimes ever committed are against white people, Michelle Obama is a calculating race bait liar, and Democrats in the US Government faked the moon landings.

[Spurminator]

Another meaningless chart that I'm sure some blog has debunked...
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2012/tables-and-data-declarations/1tabledatadecpdf/table_1_incidents_offenses_victims_and_known_offen ders_by_bias_motivation_2012.xls

[ChumpDumper]

Well, that's on them. Why did Michelle Obama not use an example of "actual racism" instead of lying about her encounter with some helpful lady at a a Target. As a side note, the lady who helped Ms. Obama claims to be an Obama voter who was thrilled when she shared that anecdote on Letterman; I wonder what she thinks now.The lady asked Obama to help her.

Seriously, you bolded that passage and you still got the basic facts wrong.

[Yonivore]

The lady asked Obama to help her.

Seriously, you bolded that passage and you still got the basic facts wrong.
I know you're a poster of few words -- usually taken out of context -- but, context matters.

[ChumpDumper]

I know you're a poster of few words -- usually taken out of context -- but, context matters.But you got the basic facts wrong.Context doesn't change that.

[ChumpDumper]

So, anyone come up with three examples of racism?

Here, let me prompt you with one I found...

"fuck the white people, kill the white people"

GIPZ09WcTWk

I know, MSNBC didn't report this so, it didn't happen.

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR%20BEGIC)

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR)

Search of MSNBC for "BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/BEGIC)

I tried a number of searches, "Croatian killed in Ferguson," "Hammer beating in Ferguson," "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People," and various other iterations, using key words and phrases, looking for an MSNBC story on the murder of Zemir Begic.

The only positive response I received was when I plugged in "Fuck the White People, Kill the White Peole:"

Amnesty International slams Ferguson over human rights abuses (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amnesty-international-slams-ferguson-over-human-rights-abuses)

Searched the article -- they don't mention Mr. Begic, either.So where's the quotes from the actual witnesses of the attack saying they heard "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People" again?

[Yonivore]

But you got the basic facts wrong.Context doesn't change that.
Oh fuck, you're being pedantic again. So, I confused the two.

It doesn't change the question of why she would use the anecdote int he first place.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh fuck, you're being pedantic again. So, I confused the two.Yes, you got the basic facts wrong.


It doesn't change the question of why she would use the anecdote int he first place.She didn't make as big a deal of it as you did.

[Yonivore]

Yes, you got the basic facts wrong.

She didn't make as big a deal of it as you did.
It was in the context of a response to her experiences with racism. She must have thought it was a bigger deal than any other example she could muster.

[ChumpDumper]

It was in the context of a response to her experiences with racism. She must have thought it was a bigger deal than any other example she could muster.lol must

The Obama's explicitly said their examples were minor.

It's People magazine. I've never seen anyone take an interview there as seriously as you have.

[ChumpDumper]

So, anyone come up with three examples of racism?

Here, let me prompt you with one I found...

"fuck the white people, kill the white people"

GIPZ09WcTWk

I know, MSNBC didn't report this so, it didn't happen.

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR%20BEGIC)

Search of MSNBC for "ZEMIR" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/ZEMIR)

Search of MSNBC for "BEGIC" (http://www.msnbc.com/search/BEGIC)

I tried a number of searches, "Croatian killed in Ferguson," "Hammer beating in Ferguson," "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People," and various other iterations, using key words and phrases, looking for an MSNBC story on the murder of Zemir Begic.

The only positive response I received was when I plugged in "Fuck the White People, Kill the White Peole:"

Amnesty International slams Ferguson over human rights abuses (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amnesty-international-slams-ferguson-over-human-rights-abuses)

Searched the article -- they don't mention Mr. Begic, either.So where are the quotes from the actual witnesses of the attack saying they heard "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People" again?

[Yonivore]

Another meaningless chart that I'm sure some blog has debunked...
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2012/tables-and-data-declarations/1tabledatadecpdf/table_1_incidents_offenses_victims_and_known_offen ders_by_bias_motivation_2012.xls

Agan, I think we would find the issue more complex than the charts suggest.

NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF HATE CRIMES WENT UNREPORTED TO POLICE IN RECENT YEARS (http://ojp.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2013/ojppr032113.pdf)

How does that missing two-thirds of the picture break out?

I don't know, do you?

Anecdotal evidence would suggest, blacks are more likely to report a perceived hate crime than whites. I can't prove it but, whites just don't have organizations like the NAACP, NBPP, Rainbow Coalition, National Action Network, and the Muslim Brotherhood running around ginning up a racial hate crime out of everything bad that happens to a black person.

[Yonivore]

lol must

The Obama's explicitly said their examples were minor.
But her example was a lie.


It's People magazine. I've never seen anyone take an interview there as seriously as you have.
I'm not sure the medium matters as much as what she's suggesting with her lie. I'd welcome a serious new outlet asking her about this to see if she can first, explain why she lied and, second, give us an example of actual racism she's experienced. Lord knows, I can't get anyone in here to give me one.
But

[Yonivore]

So where are the quotes from the actual witnesses of the attack saying they heard "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People" again?
They're in the video.

The person heard in the video claims to have been witness to the mob chanting, "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People," right before hammering Mr. Begic to death.

[ChumpDumper]

But her example was a lie.Depends, really. It did make assumptions of the woman involved which can't be proved without her.



I'm not sure the medium matters as much as what she's suggesting with her lie. I'd welcome a serious new outlet asking her about this to see if she can first, explain why she lied and, second, give us an example of actual racism she's experienced. Lord knows, I can't get anyone in here to give me one.
ButAs I said, I have never seen anyone take this so seriously.

[Yonivore]

Depends, really. It did make assumptions of the woman involved which can't be proved without her.
The lie does not require anything from the woman involved.

About the same incident:

Michelle Obama told David Letterman it made her feel good to be asked to help.

Michelle Obama told People Magazine being mistaken for the help was an example of her experience with racism.


As I said, I have never seen anyone take this so seriously.
Okay. But, I thought our leaders' views on race were important.

[ChumpDumper]

They're in the video.

The person heard in the video claims to have been witness to the mob chanting, "Fuck the White People, Kill the White People," right before hammering Mr. Begic to death.That is not a witness to the attack.

"running up and down the street" says nothing about the attack, who did the attack, where the attack occurred.

Once again, you've fucked up simple facts.

You're far too emotional about these things to be able to discuss them rationally.

[Yonivore]

That is not a witness to the attack.

"running up and down the street" says nothing about the attack, who did the attack, where the attack occurred.

Once again, you've fucked up simple facts.

You're far too emotional about these things to be able to discuss them rationally.
Yeah, okay. I took a shot at helping y'all identify racist acts and failed.

So, come up with your own examples of pervasive racism.

[ChumpDumper]

The lie does not require anything from the woman involved.

About the same incident:

Michelle Obama told David Letterman it made her feel good to be asked to help.

Michelle Obama told People Magazine being mistaken for the help was an example of her experience with racism.Yep, and that really depends on the woman asking for help. Without knowing her reasoning, it's open to interpretation.


Okay. But, I thought our leaders' views on race were important.Anecdotally, not really. But your blog really got you worked up about it.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, okay. I took a shot at helping y'all identify racist acts and failed.You certainly did fail.

One in quite a streak of failures lately.

[Yonivore]

Yep, and that really depends on the woman asking for help. Without knowing her reasoning, it's open to interpretation.
What's being discussed is Michelle Obama's interpretation. And, she has two of them.


Anecdotally, not really. But your blog really got you worked up about it.
Not really.

[Yonivore]

You certainly did fail.

One in quite a streak of failures lately.
So, help me out with some examples...since I'm unable to find any that meet your strict criteria.

Black teen gets shot by a white police officer -- automatically, race is involved; Chumpy requires proof it isn't.

White Croatian gets hammered to death on the street by multiple black men -- automatically, race is not involved unless proven to Chumpy.

So, help me out.

[ChumpDumper]

What's being discussed is Michelle Obama's interpretation. And, she has two of them.Yes. So?



Not really.Certainly want to make a big deal about it.

[DarrinS]

Asking someone to reach something on a shelf isn't racist. Anyone who thinks that is stupid.

[Spurminator]

Agan, I think we would find the issue more complex than the charts suggest.

NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF HATE CRIMES WENT UNREPORTED TO POLICE IN RECENT YEARS (http://ojp.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2013/ojppr032113.pdf)

How does that missing two-thirds of the picture break out?

I don't know, do you?

Anecdotal evidence would suggest, blacks are more likely to report a perceived hate crime than whites. I can't prove it but, whites just don't have organizations like the NAACP, NBPP, Rainbow Coalition, National Action Network, and the Muslim Brotherhood running around ginning up a racial hate crime out of everything bad that happens to a black person.

You asked for three examples. I gave you 1,800. There's no nuance to this conversation, unless you are suggesting that all 1,800 of the reported incidents categorized by law enforcement officials as hate crimes were incorrectly categorized as such.

LOL "anecdotal evidence"
LOL moving the goalposts
LOL WorldNetDaily
LOL even trying anymore

[Yonivore]

You asked for three examples. I gave you 1,800. There's no nuance to this conversation, unless you are suggesting that all 1,800 of the reported incidents categorized by law enforcement officials as hate crimes were incorrectly categorized as such.

LOL "anecdotal evidence"
LOL moving the goalposts
LOL WorldNetDaily
LOL even trying anymore
You just gave me another graph. Yeah, let's look at the 1,800 hate crimes.

Is this one of the 1,800 on your graph?

College Student Caught In Another Hate Crime Hoax (http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/03/23/college-student-caught-another-hate-crime-hoax)

[Spurminator]

You just gave me another graph. Yeah, let's look at the 1,800 hate crimes.

Is this one of the 1,800 on your graph?

College Student Caught In Another Hate Crime Hoax (http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/03/23/college-student-caught-another-hate-crime-hoax)

Assuming your link that I didn't click on is accurate, that's still one down, 1,799 to go. Have fun with that.

P.S. LOL FOX Nation

[Yonivore]

Assuming your link that I didn't click on is accurate, that's still one down, 1,799 to go. Have fun with that.

P.S. LOL FOX Nation

Ah, but it wasn't my assertion racism didn't exist. It does. It always will. But, it's not confined to the white race. In fact, it my position racism against blacks isn't as pervasive as we're being told. It's certainly not oppressing black people or keeping them from exercising any right they enjoy as Americans. We have a black President, Supreme Court Justice, leaders in business and industry, all levels of government, and on and on and on. So, even 1,800 (minus the fake crimes) is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the approximately 350 million people in this country. I don't think it would be much of an issue if those that profited from it would fold up their tents and quit running to every perceived slight in the country. Al Sharpton's National Action Network being the worst offender...from Tawana Brawley to Michael Brown, he has caused more harm by taking up fake causes than any person I can think of.

I don't see anybody organizing marches, burning down cities, and generally trying to bring communities to a halt, for the 30% of victims represented in the remainder of the hate crimes on your graph. Why not?

[Spurminator]

Ah, but it wasn't my assertion racism didn't exist. It does. It always will. But, it's not confined to the white race.

No one ever said it was.


In fact, it my position racism against blacks isn't as pervasive as we're being told. It's certainly not oppressing black people or keeping them from exercising any right they enjoy as Americans. We have a black President, Supreme Court Justice, leaders in business and industry, all levels of government, and on and on and on. So, even 1,800 (minus the fake crimes) is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the approximately 350 million people in this country.

Fine and good. You asked for three examples. I gave you 1,800.


I don't think it would be much of an issue if those that profited from it would fold up their tents and quit running to every perceived slight in the country. Al Sharpton's National Action Network being the worst offender...from Tawana Brawley to Michael Brown, he has caused more harm by taking up fake causes than any person I can think of.

Al Sharpton is a tool. A lot of black people think he is a tool. He gets far more attention from white "reverse racism" obsessors like you than he ever has from the black community.


I don't see anybody organizing marches, burning down cities, and generally trying to bring communities to a halt, for the 30% of victims represented in the remainder of the hate crimes on your graph. Why not?

Those marches and riots weren't over "hate crimes," they were about a perceived discrepancy in justice for blacks vs. other Americans. There are several whole threads of discussion about it, I think you may have participated.

So let's review the current thread:

You asked for just three examples of racist acts against black people. A low number that suggests you don't think any could possibly be found.

I show you discrepancies in arrests and sentences for black drug offenders compared to other races. You say this is explainable primarily because blacks are more likely to lie about drug use.

I show you the high rate of hate crimes against blacks vs. other races. You say this is explainable because black people are probably reporting non hate crimes as hate crimes, and 2/3rds of all hate crimes are unreported, of which you presume the majority (if not all) are crimes committed against non-blacks (because, anecdotally, black people report hate crimes when there isn't one.)

Combine all of this with how EASILY you were convinced by dubious sources reporting a murder was racially motivated despite the lack of any real evidence. Why would anyone question the accuracy of a single eyewitness account of black kids yelling "kill the white man!"

Bro, I don't need to search for examples of racism, it's all over your posts in this thread.

[Spurminator]

Ah, but it wasn't my assertion racism didn't exist. It does. It always will. But, it's not confined to the white race.

No one ever said it was.


In fact, it my position racism against blacks isn't as pervasive as we're being told. It's certainly not oppressing black people or keeping them from exercising any right they enjoy as Americans. We have a black President, Supreme Court Justice, leaders in business and industry, all levels of government, and on and on and on. So, even 1,800 (minus the fake crimes) is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the approximately 350 million people in this country.

Fine and good. You asked for three examples. I gave you 1,800.


I don't think it would be much of an issue if those that profited from it would fold up their tents and quit running to every perceived slight in the country. Al Sharpton's National Action Network being the worst offender...from Tawana Brawley to Michael Brown, he has caused more harm by taking up fake causes than any person I can think of.

Al Sharpton is a tool. A lot of black people think he is a tool. He gets far more attention from white "reverse racism" obsessors like you than he ever has from black Americans.


I don't see anybody organizing marches, burning down cities, and generally trying to bring communities to a halt, for the 30% of victims represented in the remainder of the hate crimes on your graph. Why not?

Those marches and riots weren't over "hate crimes," they were about a perceived discrepancy in justice for blacks vs. other Americans. There are several whole threads of discussion about it, I think you may have participated.

So let's review the current thread:

You asked for just three examples of racist acts against black people. A low number that suggests you don't think any could possibly be found.

I show you discrepancies in arrests and sentences for black drug offenders compared to other races. You say this is explainable primarily because blacks are more likely to lie about drug use.

I show you the high rate of hate crimes against blacks vs. other races. You say this is explainable because black people are probably reporting non hate crimes as hate crimes, and 2/3rds of all hate crimes are unreported, of which you presume the majority (if not all) are crimes committed against non-blacks (because, anecdotally, black people report hate crimes when there isn't one.)

You continue to trot out favorite conservative punching bag Al Sharpton as if he is the singular voice of the entire African American community.

Combine all of this with how EASILY you were convinced by dubious sources reporting a murder was racially motivated despite the lack of any real evidence. Why would anyone question the accuracy of a single eyewitness account of black kids yelling "kill the white man!"

Bro, I don't need to search for examples of racism, it's all over your posts in this thread.

[Cry Havoc]

No one ever said it was.



Fine and good. You asked for three examples. I gave you 1,800.



Al Sharpton is a tool. A lot of black people think he is a tool. He gets far more attention from white "reverse racism" obsessors like you than he ever has from the black community.



Those marches and riots weren't over "hate crimes," they were about a perceived discrepancy in justice for blacks vs. other Americans. There are several whole threads of discussion about it, I think you may have participated.

So let's review the current thread:

You asked for just three examples of racist acts against black people. A low number that suggests you don't think any could possibly be found.

I show you discrepancies in arrests and sentences for black drug offenders compared to other races. You say this is explainable primarily because blacks are more likely to lie about drug use.

I show you the high rate of hate crimes against blacks vs. other races. You say this is explainable because black people are probably reporting non hate crimes as hate crimes, and 2/3rds of all hate crimes are unreported, of which you presume the majority (if not all) are crimes committed against non-blacks (because, anecdotally, black people report hate crimes when there isn't one.)

Combine all of this with how EASILY you were convinced by dubious sources reporting a murder was racially motivated despite the lack of any real evidence. Why would anyone question the accuracy of a single eyewitness account of black kids yelling "kill the white man!"

Bro, I don't need to search for examples of racism, it's all over your posts in this thread.

And of course, the ever-popular counter: Well, your sources are unreliable because I found a blog at www.kkklovers.net that says they're shoddy! Meanwhile, I will believe my sources 100% of the time with no evidence or fact checking needed.

:lol Or something along those lines. That's how every political discussion on SpursTalk devolves.

[Yonivore]

So let's review the current thread:

You asked for just three examples of racist acts against black people. A low number that suggests you don't think any could possibly be found.
Well, to be fair, when I started asking for examples, I was asking for examples that proved a pervasive racism that was not universally condemned by Americans. And, further, the thread is actually about Michelle Obama's lie about her experience with racism.


I show you discrepancies in arrests and sentences for black drug offenders compared to other races. You say this is explainable primarily because blacks are more likely to lie about drug use.
I didn't say that, the paper suggested it. I'm not an expert on arrest statistics.


I show you the high rate of hate crimes against blacks vs. other races. You say this is explainable because black people are probably reporting non hate crimes as hate crimes, and 2/3rds of all hate crimes are unreported, of which you presume the majority (if not all) are crimes committed against non-blacks (because, anecdotally, black people report hate crimes when there isn't one.)
I said there are hate crime hoaxes -- many more than the one I posted. I said the FBI claims 2/3 of hate crimes go unreported and I asked you if you could break those out for me.


Combine all of this with how EASILY you were convinced by dubious sources reporting a murder was racially motivated despite the lack of any real evidence. Why would anyone question the accuracy of a single eyewitness account of black kids yelling "kill the white man!"
I think Mr. Begic was killed because he was white. I know I could find numerous examples on the internet of white people killed because they were white.

[Yonivore]

...

[ChumpDumper]

I said there are hate crime hoaxes -- many more than the one I posted. I said the FBI claims 2/3 of hate crimes go unreported and I asked you if you could break those out for me.Here's a hoax right here:

St. Louis Bosnian woman who claimed hate crime is charged with making false report (Shttp://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-bosnian-woman-who-claimed-hate-crime-is-charged/article_2d835f8c-5385-5c5d-9496-de7b6559070f.html)

Who knows how many more white people made false reports of hate crimes? If I use your statistical methods, I'd have to say all of them were false.



I think Mr. Begic was killed because he was white.Why did no witnesses to the murder say that was the reason or presented any evidence that points toward that conclusion?